[08:30] RichEd: morning [08:45] hi pips1_ ... [08:45] going through the mail now ... [08:46] besides writing that todo list, i haven't done anything yesterday.. [08:46] I'm now making notes for the download page. [08:47] In the initial part of the page, we need to explain why there is now only one add-on CD and that they need to combine it with ubuntu and ubuntu server.. [08:48] pips1_: they will never need ubuntu server (AFAIK), they need alternate for LTSP server [08:48] indeed that's something that needs to be clear in the anouncement :) [08:48] stgraber: you are right [08:49] pips1_ / stgraber : oliver has some clarifying text on his .ipso pages ... [08:49] *iso [08:50] i'm taking that, and rolling it into the press release / announcement page [08:50] RichEd: judging from last release webpage update bonanza, we are rapidly running out of time... [08:50] we need at least four documents [08:50] 1) mail announcement [08:50] then i'll send pips1_ the text for the release, and also the excerpts for the download page [08:50] 2) Download page text [08:51] pips1_: they will all follow from one document ... here is my approach [08:51] 3) edubuntu 8.04 overview page [08:51] 4) edubuntu 8.04 release notes [08:51] write the announcement in too much detail ... and then separate the detail into the 4 docs ... and trim the announcement [08:52] the announcement will be a high level summary, with links to the rest of the docs [08:52] ok [08:52] TIMING: pips1_ they are talking about 12pm midday BST [08:52] enough time ... this is my task this morning ... [08:53] you can hold off and do other stuff until in ping you [08:53] how are you planning on getting feedback from ogra and me and stgraber (?) ... send the document around by mail? wiki? [08:53] * until I ping [08:53] i'll pop up chunks of text here for immediate comment as i write [08:54] I see [08:54] then mail completed text to ogra pips1_ stgraber and ping here to let you know when & what to check [08:54] i'll write it all and manage ... get on with your real life until you hear from me [08:54] (at regular intervals) [08:55] do we have an expected time for release ? [08:55] last I heard, it was morning slangasek's time [08:55] so late afternoon here [08:55] stgraber: scroll back to the word TIMING [08:56] oh, missed this line :) [08:56] 3h4min and counting ... [09:10] RichEd: What will we use in terms of headings: Edubuntu 8.04 or always Ubuntu Education Edition 8.04 ?? [09:11] pips ... [09:11] [1] for page titles use: Ubuntu Education Edition 8.04 : Edubuntu [09:11] [2] for CD general : Ubuntu Education Edition 8.04 CD [09:12] [3] for a user complete install: Edubuntu Desktop / Edubuntu Server [09:12] ok [09:13] the rebranding of the environment is a huge shirt ... has consequences on IRC channel names ... Docs .. wiki ... web site ... help ... desktop etc. [09:13] so now, the CD is called Ubuntu Education Edition 8.04 [09:13] that is an add-on pack to Ubuntu [09:13] a full install of education add-on gives you edubuntu [09:13] ^ does that make sense for you to judge which name to use where ? [09:15] yes [09:22] urgh, the new brand name is so much longer... [09:22] 'edubuntu' vs. 'ubuntu education edition' [09:22] 8 vs. 24 [09:23] ogra: RichEd Will there be such a thing as a DVD release of Edubuntu/UEE ? [09:24] pips1_: not as a physical item ... ogra may build an .iso of the collection for download [09:24] i ment the download [09:25] meant [09:29] not right now under deadline, but hpoefully buy the time the phsycial CDs ship ... [09:29] understood [09:34] oh dear, wiki.u.c is dead slow [09:36] erk, bad timing [09:38] RichEd: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Website/ReleaseTodo/DraftDownload [09:39] RichEd: ^^^ outline for the download page structure [09:39] checking ... [09:40] pips1_: What about using gobby for release-notes/announcement/... ? it's probably a lot faster than wiki [09:40] no go for me [09:40] I'm still on 6.06 LTS :-) [09:41] my gobby version won't work with the newer versions.... [09:41] I desperately need to update to 8.04 :-) [09:42] pips1_: snap [09:43] stgraber: i'm taking the last release announcement and updating that ... the ubuntu one is short & brief ... ours will be as well [09:43] we'll have a fuller page as an additional [09:43] here is the ubuntu one we are modelling: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/ReleaseAnnouncement [09:44] pips1_: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/804features/ <-f.y.i. we'll include that as the tour link on the sidebar menu [09:46] that whatisubuntu page rocks !!! [09:46] yes [09:47] matt asked me not to publish it though!! [09:47] the url [09:47] stgraber: please hold off a minute before dragging everybody's attention to it ;-) [09:48] don't worry [09:49] RichEd: should I start writing copy for my Download page draft? Or will you do it? I'm just a bit worried we wont make it in time.. :-) [09:50] the wiki is already timing out ! don't make the masses whack the website into a stupor while we are trying to update [09:51] huh? [09:51] I wont use the wiki anymore [09:51] I will start writing text offline and start formatting it as html to insert into drupal / edubuntu.org [09:52] pips1_: for your comfort, do the structure and wording you see fit ... i'll then overlay mine over yours ... that way we can simply update a working acceptable page under less stress thata non-existing one [09:52] pips1_: if you are using Drupal's nodes, you can also turn the "published" flag off and directly work on the page in Drupal [09:52] stgraber: sure [09:53] RichEd: ok [09:54] pips1_: re huh i'm talking about stgraber making a lound reference to the www web page and using the rock war cry with multiple bangs which normally provokes a reaction like the sound of a tin opener operating on a can of fish at the local SPCA or animal shelter [09:55] hehe [09:55] :) [09:57] can any of you load a wiki page ... i'm timing out :P [09:57] wiki.u.c has probs [09:57] I gave up [09:57] IS is pinged [09:57] it's probably not going to get any better soon [09:58] I don't think so either, I'm glad I opened all the pages I need for reference earlier [09:58] :-) [09:58] some hosting providers offer slashdot insurance. I wonder if there would be hosting providers that offer ubuntu-release insurance soon :) [09:59] hehe [09:59] hi ogra ... feeling strong about the release(s) ... [09:59] busy with desaster recovery .... https://launchpad.net/~cmpc-developers/+archive/+build/568554 [10:00] (witing for a fixed cmpc kernel that actually builds [10:00] ) [10:00] it is easier this time for edubuntu release now that it is part of the distro "engine" ? [10:00] i didnt have to care so much [10:00] and it will be even less next release [10:01] this time we had all the infrastructural changes fr the addon, next time i only maintain a list and three packages for edubuntu itself [10:01] * RichEd smiles at ogra's use of care ... in english it means to be interested, to pay attention to ... [10:01] so from next time on i should really have time for actual development if tools :) [10:02] so "don't have to care" is along the road to "i don't give a sh*t" ... [10:02] right :) the latter :) [10:02] RichEd: ogra's use of care is more like the hacker language care [10:02] ahhh ... methought it was a german /english thing [10:02] most of the infrastructural changes were made by colin, i actualy only had to pay attention my stuff follows up on his changes :) [10:03] ogra: great ... so the reorg is making sense ... [10:03] back after ciggie [10:03] i already added two specs to the team canonical page :) [10:03] (edubuntu-menus GUI and scheduling integration) [10:03] (willowng and parental control integration) [10:05] i must add the easy education install categories [10:05] as well as the name change and carry through across web / irc / doc / help / wiki etc. [10:05] keeping edubuntu as the name for the full education default install [10:06] but the ubuntu education as the whole set of options available for ubuntu [10:07] on the non edu side i have: mesh networking, easy usb key installer images, lightweight kernel flavour and boot profiling, [10:07] RichEd: if you need my attention, use my nick to ping... I'm too busy to follow conversation here. :-) [10:08] you mean on the non-generic h/w side ? i presume you refer to cmpc ? [10:08] and have you seen the OLPC keyboard problem making waves ? [10:08] no to my job in the platfom tem [10:08] *team [10:08] ahhh ... but all useful to us in edu :)_ [10:09] RichEd: which keyboard problem? [10:09] oh, OLPC. right. [10:09] mesh networking is a cmpc spec though but falls into general networking [10:09] lightweight kernel is rather an ltsp thing but also useful for subnotebooks ;) [10:09] same for boot profiling :) [10:10] highvoltage: not your keyboard problem ... a wipe with a strong disinfectant will sort that out [10:10] RichEd: thanks for the tip. [10:10] ogra: is that compressed swap thing also planned for the cmpc in Intrepid ? [10:10] made by ogra(tm) ... available to broader the effort [10:10] stgraber, someone else put it on the list already [10:10] (compcache you mean i think) [10:11] stgraber, i'd love to look into that especially i'd love to hear the reason why you need the go through a blockdevice instead of directly compressing all ram actions :) [10:15] RichEd: ogra: question: should we advertise the availability of Moodle in 8.04 at all? [10:16] we did so before, if we dont advertise its removal thats fine :) [10:16] ogra: removal ? [10:16] we did so before? where? in the announcement mail? on the website? huh? [10:16] i'd like to look into the bug you had there yesterday for 8.04.1 ... so its probaby better to not advertise it to much in the current state [10:16] for 7.10 ? [10:16] pips1_: on the download page, please make sure that there is a section for each of these: [10:16] 7.10 [10:17] * to install edubuntu desktop, you need ... [10:17] * to install edubuntu server, you need ... [10:17] * to install edubuntu LTSP server, you need ... [10:17] oh [10:17] and list the links needed ... [10:17] s/LTSP/ClassroomServer/g [10:17] what is the difference between 'edubuntu server' and 'edubuntu LTSP server' ? [10:17] and really drop the server part [10:18] edubuntu-server is a metapackage, classroom server is an install variant [10:18] classroom server install variant gives you LTSP setup [10:18] correct? [10:18] if you dont like classroom, call it thin client server, but please drop the ltsp [10:18] right [10:19] why do you explicitely want to drop the LTSP? [10:19] we will add some text to flesh out a recipe level install instruction ... but for now, point people to the components they will need to d/l to get to the usual (expected) end desktops [10:19] ogra ... what is the difference now between ubuntu server ... and edubuntu server without ltsp ? [10:19] ah, LTSP is its own thing [10:19] https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HardyClassroomServer isnt enough ? [10:19] any or none [10:20] RichEd, a (currently broken apparently) moodle install [10:20] edubuntu-server depends on postgresqul, apache and moodle to give you the content server [10:21] :( what's broke ?? is the install not completing, or installing but not running properly ? [10:21] but pips1_ had some bad bug yesterday i'd like to look at as soon as hardy-updates is open so we shouldnt advertise it separately [10:21] and how would someone recover a bad install [10:22] i have no idea what broke, i dont have the time to look now, i'm heavily behind on cmpc and cant upload any fix anyway [10:22] well, I got a nasty sound error on the command line, but moodle *seems* to run fine, on a first impression, anyway [10:22] *nasty sounding error [10:22] it threw an install errorr that needs deeper researc, even though it seemed to work after install [10:22] right [10:23] so... on the download I simply write [10:23] i can look next week (given the classmate kernel is done, i have ot roll the final images *today* for that) [10:23] 1.) to install edubuntu desktop [10:23] 2.) to installe edubunt thin client server [10:23] ? [10:23] yes [10:24] we can add an 8.04.1 section there later and add edubuntu-server [10:24] RichEd: you ok with that? [10:25] RichEd: and what about the terminology? 'edubuntu classroom server' or 'edubuntu thin client server' ? (I think the latter is more accurate, since edubuntu server in the future will include a content server, etc?) [10:26] for hardy+1: edubuntu-server = ltsp + moodle ? [10:26] in "biz speak" we call it ubuntu terminal services btw http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/technologies/ltsp [10:26] pips1_, no [10:26] more metapackages [10:26] right [10:26] and edubuntu-server will never depend on ltsp [10:27] ltsp will always remain as an install variant, but people will add metapackages to suit their needs on top of that... [10:27] (since i want edubuntu-server selectable in g-a-i later it would pull ltsp onto the addon CD) [10:27] understood [10:28] ltsp is an ubuntu thing now [10:28] you want ltsp on ubuntu (alternate) cd [10:28] right [10:29] RichEd: any word from you about the wording for the "edubuntu server"? 'edubuntu terminal services', 'edubuntu thin client server', 'edubuntu server', ...? which to use? [10:31] edubuntu classroom server ... as oliver has used ... [10:31] ok [10:31] where it makes sense, use "edubuntu classroom server (thin client)" [10:31] "Install Edubuntu Classroom Server" [10:32] ok [10:32] like headings, but don't bog down body text with the long term [10:33] orga: "edubuntu classroom server (terminal services)" or "edubuntu classroom server (thin client)" ? [10:33] feel free to choose :) [10:34] well, i guess it depends on what term is more likely to be googled for... [10:34] * pips1_ checks [10:35] terminal services: 10'700'000 hits in google [10:35] thin client: 6'410'000 hits [10:36] terminal services: first link = Terminal Services is a component of Microsoft Windows... [10:36] thin client: first link = wikipedia [10:37] wow, really sounds like microsoft owns the term "terminal services" [10:38] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_Services [10:38] 'thin client' seems to be more associated with open source... [10:39] interesting [10:39] * pips1_ carries on === blue-frog_ is now known as blue-frog [10:41] "Ubuntu Education Edition 8.04 is codenamed Hardy Heron and is supported for 18 months on both desktops and servers." [10:41] ogra: ^^^ is that correct? [10:43] right [10:43] btw, could you file a bug about moodle, "moodle tries to configure DB before postgres is up" seems to be the proper description [10:43] against edubuntu-meta [10:45] pips1_: i wouldn't use "code named" sounds too james bond ... just use: [10:46] "Ubuntu Education Edition 8.04 (the Hardy Heron release) is supported for 18 months on both desktops and servers. [10:46] ogra: ?? happy with that ^ [10:46] sure [10:47] ok [10:47] pips1_: terminal services is synonymous with a MS service ... has been for 10+ years [10:47] thin client is generic ... [10:47] so what do we use? [10:47] thats why we call it "ubuntu terminal services" on the marketing pages all over ubuntu.com :) [10:47] we might as well use terminal services ... :-) [10:48] * RichEd would disagree :) [10:48] thin client <- a person looking normally to save money or management time / overhead in a large install has "thin client is a slimmer cheaper solution" in mind [10:48] imho ... [10:48] http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/technologies/ltsp [10:49] tell that to marketing :) [10:49] * RichEd cannot believe that ogra is taking his lead from marketing ... follow the people in sharkskin suits ? [10:49] ;) [10:50] RichEd, well, i wrote that text :) [10:50] haha [10:50] sympathising with the devil ;) [10:50] ogra the marketer [10:50] in lederhosen [10:50] haha [10:50] "To use Ubuntu Terminal Services during Ubuntu install use the Ubuntu Alternate CD for installation, hit F4 at the bootscreen and select "Install a LTSP server" from the pop up "Modes" menu." :) [10:51] well, call it as you like just dont call it LTSP in the ehadins [10:51] *headings [10:51] to install "Ubuntu Terminal Services" install "LTSP" :) [10:51] yeah [10:51] the app is LTSP [10:51] the product is ubuntu terminal server :) [10:51] "Ubuntu Education Edition 8.04 DVD's will be made available only a while after the initial CD release (feel free to check for availability at the following link) ..." [10:51] ogra: ^^^ ? [10:52] won't people expect something similar to Microsoft's terminal server (RDP stuff) with such a name ? [10:52] (to be honest i was just to late to request a change for the menu entry wrt translations) [10:52] (should have been "terminal server") [10:52] "The DVD image contains the Desktop and Server ISO's, as well as all the packages officially supported by Ubuntu" [10:52] pips1_, DVD ? [10:52] ogra: ^^^ correct? [10:53] yes, should I write about the DVD, or drop that altogether? [10:53] pips1_: we don't have DVD [10:53] RichEd: mentioned that there might be one later? [10:53] misunderstanding? [10:53] let me have a look, i'm not sure we have built DVDs at all since they are actually identical to ubuntu DVDs [10:53] oh, we built them apparently [10:53] http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/8.04/release/ [10:53] I don't have Edubuntu DVD in the list of images to test [10:54] pips1_ / stgraber : ogra and i chatted a while ago about building a DVD with the whole set of edu cd requirements on it [10:54] stgraber, it doesnt differ from ubuntu [10:54] ogra: we don't seem to have the i386 one though [10:54] so what should i write on the download page? [10:54] RichEd, the ubuntu DVD contains all of main (incuding the edu stuff) [10:54] so e.g. if someone wants to burn & post to a disconnected user ... they can do a DVD [10:55] ogra: will that get them edubuntu desktop / edubuntu server / edubuntu LTSP ? [10:55] what would you expect from a "edubuntu DVD" thats not covered by the ubuntu DVD [10:55] if yes ... pips1_ you can make a DVD heading and point people to the ubuntu one [10:55] RichEd, no, since we dont have any installer ntegration anywhere we dont have such modes [10:55] ubuntu DVD contains what? ubuntu + u. server + kubuntu + ? [10:55] the edubuntu DVD wll offer exactly the same the ubuntu DVD offers [10:56] what is the ubuntu DVD url? [10:56] all edu apps are included there [10:56] pips1_, all of main that fits plus all langpacks [10:57] ic [10:57] so what is the URL? [10:58] IIRC DVD images are on cdimage, 2s [10:58] i think its somewher on cdimage [10:58] http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hardy/release/ [10:58] http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/20080423/ there is a daily build though [10:59] "The DVD image contains the Desktop and Server ISO's, as well as all the packages officially supported by Ubuntu" [11:00] ogra: ^^^ correct? [11:00] right [11:00] (i never used the dvd) [11:00] ok [11:00] me neither [11:00] juliux does thogh :) [11:01] ogra: AFAIK it doesn't contain Kubuntu, so not exactly "all packages officially supported by Ubuntu" maybe "all packages for the Ubuntu environement" would be better [11:02] yeah [11:02] sounds better in that light [11:04] ogra: I have a heading "Older Releases" which lists Edubuntu 6.06.1 Dapper.... [11:04] I leave that in, right? [11:04] Dapper will still be available, right? [11:04] yeah [11:04] ok [11:04] and supported for another year [11:05] "supported until 2009" ? [11:06] i think so [11:24] ? [11:26] oh oh, me things we have a slight problem [11:26] hmm [11:26] pips1_: ? [11:27] on our download page, we use this nice script from matt nuzum that will give us an up to date list of all download mirrors... [11:27] but *only* for the Ubuntu 8.04 educational add-on CD [11:27] I can simply reference the ubuntu.com website for the Ubuntu 8.04 Desktop CD [11:28] ... download [11:28] but what about the links for the Ubuntu 8.04 Alternate CD [11:28] ? [11:28] * pips1_ checks [11:28] there is a checkbox on the ubuntu DL page [11:29] it was at the bottom in 7.10 [11:29] Check here if you need the alternate desktop CD. This CD does not include the Live CD, instead it uses a text-based installer. [11:29] right... so i need to write that the *need* to tick that tiny checkbox on that page.... [11:30] just link to the HardyClassroomServer wikipage ? [11:30] well, you see, our download page will only provide a list of mirrors for the add-on CD! [11:30] right [11:31] for the "other CDs", i.e. ubuntu Desktop and Ubuntu Alternate, I will just direct the people to the ubuntu.com website... [11:31] so for general just link to the ubuntu DL page [11:31] for classroom server link to the classroom server wikipage [11:31] edubuntu addon works fine with ubuntu desktop [11:32] no need for the checkbox, and classroom server users should in any case follow the instructions of the classrom server wikipage [11:32] well, that's what i'll do... but I guess people will still get a bit confused that they need to navigate to two download pages to get a complete "ubuntu education edition"... [11:32] thats the drawback we have to live with in the new design [11:32] right [11:32] you will always need the ubuntu base [11:33] but for the default a link to the desktop iso is fine [11:33] just make classroom server prominent enough [11:33] perhaps next time round, matt can adjust the script so it'll be nice and configurable.... [11:33] so people wanting that actually see it [11:34] perhaps next time roud we can provide shipit with the alternate CD :) [11:34] as classroom server edition === RichEd_ is now known as RichEd [11:55] ogra: expanding this" is supported for 18 months on both desktops and servers" [11:56] good idea [11:57] RichEd: do you have a paragraph that explains what the add-on CD contains? [11:57] pips1_: not yet [11:57] :-/ [11:57] * pips1_ has sweat breaking loose [12:00] pips1_: my buttefiles are wobbling me [12:01] ogra: ?? [12:02] Edubuntu 8.04 is a Long Term Support release (LTR) and will be supported for 18 months on both desktops and servers through our managed software repositories. The desktop package manager notifier checks automatically for security and maintenance updates / patches and prompts from the tool bar for simple selection and installation. [12:02] pips1_, the same it contained before there were no content changes [12:02] RichEd: s/LTR/LTS/ ? [12:02] s/before/before, / [12:03] RichEd, edubuntu is no LTS [12:03] stgraber: thanks ... i'll blame those on my contact lenses which are fogged up from lack of sleep [12:03] ogra: ?? wasn't 6.10 an LTS [12:03] 6.10 was [12:04] 8.04 isnt [12:04] but the underlying ubuntu is no ? [12:04] thats what i was told very explicitly yesterday by mdz and cjwatson [12:05] *EDU*buntu isnt a long term support release ... [12:05] can we say that it is based on the Ubuntu which is LTS [12:05] ubuntu is [12:05] so is the concern about edu package support ? [12:05] because all of those are in the repositories and supported for ubuntu ? [12:05] "the edubuntu CD operates as an addon to the long term supported ubuntu 8.04 edition" would surely be possible i think [12:06] but we're not allowed to call the addon LTS [12:06] or an edubuntu install [12:06] okay ... so do we support for 18 months ? [12:06] 18 yes, not 3 years though [12:06] and the base desktop is LTS supported for 36 months ? [12:07] yeah, thats the general hort tem support cycle for all releases [12:07] *short term [12:07] okay ... let me word that positively ... brb [12:08] RichEd, afaik only content of the -desktop (and alternate indeed) and -server CDs is actually supported [12:08] for LTS [12:08] no kubuntu, xubuntu or edubuntu [12:15] ogra ... any release notes of our own anticipated ? [12:25] RichEd, beyond the changes i wouldnt know what to note :) [12:26] ogra: fine by me ... the more we point people back to ubuntu, the better [12:26] so i have referenced theirs [12:26] ogra / stgraber / pips1_ : please check your mail for the web announcement text [12:26] comment here please ... no muti-email doc spawning :) [12:26] ok [12:27] * RichEd is now checking to see if it needs modification for the mail shots [12:27] note that there is now no Edubuntu announcement going out in ubuntu announce [12:27] we are referenced as an add-on feature of ubuntu [12:28] we will do our own mail shot to our lists [12:28] * RichEd heads for a ciggie and will come back for comments in 5 [12:35] Find out what is new in this release with a graphical tour: [12:35] http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/710tour [12:35] http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/710 [12:35] ... [12:35] 7.10 ? [12:36] beyond that looks good to me ... [12:37] RichEd: checking now [12:38] are these its a txt attachment, probably TB doesnt interpret links in there [12:39] i see it fine in evo [12:39] hmm, right [12:39] stgraber: that's for pips1_ to do on the web site announcement [12:39] the mail shot is a revised version for text only [12:40] shouldn't the mail link to the releasesnotes for Edubuntu ? [12:40] stgraber: scroll back dude ... none from ollie this time [12:40] well, what should i note beyond the changes :) [12:40]