brycehmm, ok00:01
elmowhen you select reboot the system in rescue mode, it just dumps you back into the top level menu00:22
elmoknown bug?  if not, which package should I be looking at, to file a bug on?00:23
cjwatsonknown bug, fixed in Debian, we forgot to do the sync after RC, will fix for 8.04.100:23
elmok, thx00:23
cjwatsonbug 21854900:23
ubotuLaunchpad bug 218549 in rescue "Choosing "Reboot" in rescue menu jumps to main menu -- sync rescue from Debian" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/21854900:23
=== heno is now known as heno_away
ScottKbryce: Would you have a moment to help me with a release note about multi-monitor support for Kubuntu?  As I understand it with displayconfig all we have is xinerama and that's not so much supported.  If you can give me a few hints, I can make it sound nice.00:57
bryceScottK: sure00:57
bryceScottK: I'm not totally up on where Kubuntu is with xrandr support, but I recall seeing some KDE screenshots that seemed to provide xrandr 1.2 options - is that correct?00:57
ScottKFor KDE3 we have what displayconfig provides (I assume kde/gtk would be the same).00:58
brycedisplayconfig uses guidance for its backend, which only supports Xinerama.  I'm not sure if xrandr got added in at a higher level00:58
ScottKKDE4 has some kind of xrandr tool, but not AFAIK kde3.00:59
bryceScottK: ah, ok.  for G/Ubuntu we're deprecating our displayconfig-gtk in favor of gnome's Screen Resolution tool, which is xrandr-based.00:59
ScottKRight, so if you can help me describe the displayconfig situation, that's what I need.01:00
ScottKI know little about X.  I mostly made displayconfig and the back end crash less.01:00
ScottKIs there a subset of users that Xinerama will continue to work for?01:01
bryceScottK: ok, so the current situation for you is that for most video drivers, dual screen can be set up only via the 'xrandr' command line tool and/or manual xorg.conf settings01:01
bryceScottK: the Screen Resolution tool we're adding for Ubuntu relies on gnome-settings-daemon to do the heavy work, which kubuntu would not be using, so that tool would not be of use to kubuntu users01:02
bryce(something I'm fairly bummed about, but since this was RedHat's work for the most part, I didn't really have much influence on that)01:03
ScottKI was hoping to be able to say something like, If you have blank types of video then Xinerama will still work and you can use Display and Monitor (displayconfig) otherwise you have to do ...01:03
ScottKKDE4 has at least a basic xrandr tool, but I haven't used it.01:04
brycethe binary drivers (-nvidia and -fglrx) may still support Xinerama.01:04
brycebut they have their own multi-screen setup tools, so it would be better to encourage users to use those, than displayconfig anyway01:05
brycethe -nv driver for older model cards still support Xinerama.01:06
=== RadiantFire_ is now known as RadiantFire
bryceScottK: ATI users can go back to Xinerama by installing the old 6.6.3 version of -ati01:08
* ScottK starts to write something up.01:08
ScottKbryce: BTW, I'd have been totally screwed during this development cycle by fixing displayconfig if not for the xfix option.  Thanks very much for that.01:10
bryceScottK: for Intel, the legacy -i810 driver supports Xinerama.01:11
=== kitterma is now known as ScottK2
ScottKbryce: What's the official end user type name for the xfix option?01:32
bryceogasawara: bug #216927 also sounds like it may be a kernel bug (iwl3945)01:32
ubotuLaunchpad bug 216927 in ubuntu "mouse & keyboard became suddenly completely unresponsive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/21692701:33
bryceScottK, what was the xfix option again?01:33
ScottKThat's the one where you reboot to the 'restore' option and you get the chance to have the system try to fix your broken X automagically01:33
bryceoh, bulletproof-x?01:34
ScottKSounds reasonable.01:34
bryceheh, hadn't heard it described as xfix before01:34
ScottKThat's what it calls itself in the boot menu.01:34
* calc wants kernel modesetting X, so we can get prettier bootup :)01:35
calcplus BSOD feature, whee ;-)01:36
TheMusocalc: hehe01:36
calcwell it will be nice to be able to display the error on the screen instead of just freezing01:37
calcbut it just sounds very funny :)01:37
ScottK2bryce: Comments on http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/64162/ please01:37
* calc bbl, dinner01:37
bryceyeah what fedora put out is really more of a proof of concept - it's not even turned on by default.  So I think it has a long way to go before it's useful.  Still cool to see out in the wild though.01:37
bryceScottK, why don't you leave out the "Bullet Proof X" name from that.  That was always just a code name.  If it's called "xfix" in the boot menu, that's a better name for it01:40
ScottK2OK.  It does sound cool though.01:40
brycealso I'm suspicious that xfix may be something completely different from BPX01:40
ScottK2Up to you.01:40
bryceyeah leave it out...01:40
ScottK2I'll reboot my other laptop to make sure I have it right.01:40
ScottK2Three cheers for the forced fsck.  It'll be a while.01:44
ScottK2bryce: Any other comments?01:44
bryceScottK: just one...  I don't know your feelings on linking to 3rd party websites, but thinkwiki has the best Xrandr 1.2 config guide I've found so far01:45
bryceI have on my todo list to set up a Ubuntu guide like that... but haven't done it01:45
ScottK2I'm all for good information.01:45
bryceDebian has http://wiki.debian.org/XStrikeForce/HowToRandR12 which is good too.01:46
brycebut the thinkwiki site addresses Ubuntu more specifically01:46
ScottK2It doesn't seem updated for Hardy though.01:46
pwnguinits kinda thinkpad specific too01:47
ScottK2bryce: What would you think about making a stub wiki page on w.u.c that just links to those two for now.  I'll link to that and you can fill it out over time.01:53
brycealright, well I guess this is as good an opportunity as any to get off my duff and get that guide together.01:53
ScottK2Even better.01:53
bryceScottK2, I think that is a stellar idea, I'll get on it now.01:53
brycewell, after coffee.  brb01:53
ScottK2OK.  I need to run out for about an hour.  I'll be back later.01:53
ScottK2Slight update http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/64169/01:57
bryce(WIP obviously)02:11
* ScottK2 is back.02:45
bardyrkudos to the people who refreshed the new http://start.ubuntu.com/8.04/ it looks really nice03:02
alex-weejasac: still up?03:10
alex-weejcrimsun: or you :)03:11
jdongget a room you guys!03:11
crimsunalex-weej: yes03:12
alex-weejcrimsun: did you know flash seems to be working fine with the pulse ALSA plug /without/ libflashsupport?03:12
alex-weejthat is one less reason not to use PA as the default ALSA output03:13
crimsunalex-weej: it works on my config, yes.  Then again, FF didn't 'splode with libflashsupport and older Flash, either, here.03:13
alex-weejit did for me03:13
alex-weejnpviewer.bin would frequently segfault03:13
crimsunthe only thing we can really do at this stage is grow a larger sampling pool.03:14
alex-weeji don't think many of our users are using pulse as the default output without libflashsupport03:14
alex-weejyou either need the PCM defs in /etc/asound.conf or your own user conf via asoundconf set-pulse or whatever03:15
crimsunyeah, that's why I added it.03:16
crimsunAFAIK, Ubuntu Education Edition has been using it.03:16
alex-weejhow hard do you think it would be to add a hook in the PA package that added a line to /etc/asound.conf that sourced its default PCM config jazz?03:18
alex-weejmessing with configs is pretty hairy i guess03:18
crimsunnot hard, but it is not recommended and would make several people's neckhair crawl03:19
alex-weejcrimsun: are you a core dev?03:27
alex-weejok, that's good to know03:28
alex-weeji commented on 192888 (the flash crash bug)03:28
alex-weejbasically suggesting we test and then mark libflashsupport as conflicting with the newer flashplugin03:28
crimsunalex-weej: breaks for at least one significant test case as outlined in the bug report.03:40
alex-weejoh? which?03:40
crimsunalex-weej: essentially, current hardy PA's default.pa (exclusive hw:X), using pcm pulse plug in an asoundrc, hotplugging another audio device, testing Flash in FF3.0b503:41
alex-weejcrimsun: that's not the Fx bug though03:42
alex-weejmaybe it is, sorry03:42
alex-weejhotplug another audio device and... Fx crashes?03:42
crimsunno, inaudible audio03:42
alex-weejwell that's a different bug right?03:43
crimsunFF doesn't crash, but Flash audio isn't audible03:43
crimsunwhich is, coincidentially, precisely what the current situation is.03:43
alex-weejso let me get this straight03:43
alex-weejFlash is using PA03:43
alex-weejas in, you can see the audio levels in the volume meter and control it with pavucontrol03:44
alex-weejyou hotplug an ALSA device03:44
alex-weejand suddenly the audio goes silent?03:44
crimsunno, it fails for all audio devices controlled by PA03:44
alex-weejonly when flash is running?03:44
crimsunonly Flash is inaudible03:44
alex-weejso that's a pretty small bug in comparison, right?03:45
crimsunit is irrevelant whether other PA clients are running - they continue to be audible03:45
crimsunwell, hardy will ship with Flash nondeterministically inaudible03:45
alex-weejwhen you hotplug a DEVICE?03:46
crimsunif libflashsupport is not installed but the pulse pcm plug is used, Flash will be inaudible period.03:46
crimsunyes, regardless whether a device is hot(un)plugged03:46
alex-weejcrimsun: i don't think that's true -- at least i have pulse PCM here and no libflashsupport and it works fine with no npviewer crashes03:47
crimsunalex-weej: I'm on ia32.  No nspluginwrapper.03:47
alex-weeji'm still not really sure what you mean here -- is Adobe Flash actually picking up on ALSA device hotplugging and doing something it shouldn't?03:48
alex-weejand i'd say the chances of someone having music paused but wanting to listen to youtube are more likely than people hotplugging devices03:48
crimsunno, the pcm pulse alsa-lib plugin fails on ia32 for Flash.03:48
alex-weejwhy did you talk about hotplugging? or was that something else?03:49
crimsunno, it's all related.03:50
crimsunthe `pulseaudio -vv' output is there in my comment.03:50
alex-weeji guess it's late, sorry i just don't understand03:50
alex-weejforgetting hotplugging03:50
alex-weejyou're saying that setting up the default PCM as pulse03:51
alex-weejand trying to use flash without libflashsupport03:51
gnomefreakflash 124 doesnt need to depend on libflashsupport as i understand it03:51
alex-weejgnomefreak: it doesn't anymore03:51
alex-weejthe problem is it doesn't CONFLICT03:51
crimsungnomefreak: it fails horribly on ia32.03:51
alex-weejso many people still have it installed03:51
alex-weejcrimsun: what is your ALSA config?03:51
gnomefreakcrimsun: did you try moving the libflashsupport.so?03:51
gnomefreaksee if it helps03:51
crimsungnomefreak: I have no libflashsupport.so.03:51
gnomefreakthats not good03:52
alex-weejgnomefreak: what arch you on?03:52
crimsunguys, I tested this on ia32 before I started all the dmix & dsnoop fun03:52
alex-weejand yours works without libflashsupport?03:52
alex-weejgnomefreak: and you're using pulse as your default ALSA output?03:52
gnomefreakalex-weej: should i just got home from 3 months of being away03:52
alex-weeji see03:53
gnomefreakalex-weej: im working on a few things atm and will test03:53
crimsunbelieve me, I really don't like the idea of using dmix instead of hw:X, but it is the only audible solution I've found on ia32.03:53
alex-weejgnomefreak: yeah, try removing libflashsupport and running asoundconf set-pulseaudio03:53
alex-weejthen restart your browser and go youtubing03:53
gnomefreak'testing with beta5?03:54
crimsunalex-weej: (http://pastebin.com/d17a12c34 is my test config)03:54
alex-weejmake sure flashplugin-nonfree is uptodaye03:54
alex-weejcrimsun: does that pulseaudio log repeat over-and-over?03:55
crimsunalex-weej: yes.03:55
alex-weejthat USED to be what happened for me03:55
gnomefreaki get sound but its really low03:55
alex-weejhm what am i doing, i have an i386 PC sat next to me...03:55
alex-weejlow or slow?03:55
gnomefreaknot loud03:56
alex-weejcheck your PA volumes03:56
alex-weejpavucontrol :)03:56
alex-weejcan you see Adobe Flash listed as a client?03:56
gnomefreakmight help if it was installed :)03:56
alex-weejcrimsun: you have the same config as me, FWIW. do you have one in /etc/asound.conf ?03:56
alex-weejgnomefreak: Adobe Flash is what we're trying to test here...03:57
gnomefreakhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVky7hwuebU  plays03:57
crimsunalex-weej: no, and ~/.asoundrc takes precedence anyhow.03:57
alex-weejcrimsun: right, but i was wondering if any other PCM's were defined that Flash may be screwing with.03:57
gnomefreakalex-weej: pavucontrol isnt installed by default03:57
crimsunalex-weej: no, there aren't any additional custom ones.03:57
alex-weejgnomefreak: oh right :P03:57
alex-weejgnomefreak: do what you have to do then :)03:58
gnomefreaki am03:58
gnomefreaksudo :(03:58
gnomefreakok no thats not it03:58
gnomefreakwhats wrong with pavucontrol03:59
crimsungnomefreak: what's the issue?03:59
gnomefreakgnomefreak@Hardy:~$ pavucontrol03:59
gnomefreakE: authkey.c: Failed to open cookie file '/home/gnomefreak/.pulse-cookie': Permission denied03:59
gnomefreaksudo doesnt let it stay open either03:59
crimsunblah, that's a separate PA bug.03:59
gnomefreakit gives error03:59
alex-weejdon't run it as sudo03:59
gnomefreakcant look in it03:59
alex-weejare you running pulseaudio as root?03:59
crimsunpkill pulseaudio, rm ~/.pulse*03:59
crimsunsorry, rm -fr ~/.pulse*04:00
gnomefreakno good together04:00
alex-weejstat ~/.pulse-cookie04:01
alex-weejwho owns?04:01
gnomefreaklooks like root04:02
alex-weejso something is running PA as root...04:02
alex-weejjust do a sudo killall pulseaudio04:02
alex-weejsudo pulseaudio -k04:02
gnomefreaknot likely but i think i have it fixed atm04:03
crimsunhe'll have to nuke ~/.pulse*, too.04:03
alex-weejcrimsun: pulseaudio shutdown should nuke it no?04:03
gnomefreakwell not after fixing it :(04:03
alex-weejhm, wonder how that happened04:03
alex-weejyeah just sudo rm .pulse* :P04:03
gnomefreakok lets try again04:05
gnomefreakasac changed dirs for profiles it seems04:07
gnomefreaki dont have libflashsupport.so at all04:10
gnomefreakand it seems to work fine here04:10
gnomefreakPA is a bit on the cranky side atm but flash plays04:11
crimsunFlash "plays" fine here.  It's just inaudible due to the pulse pcm plugin in libasound2-plugins choking04:11
gnomefreakplays as in plays sounds and vid04:12
gnomefreakcrimsun: you are not the only one that i have heard this about but i wrote it off as he didnt update flash04:12
crimsungnomefreak: with the default pcm set to pulse, correct?04:12
alex-weejgnomefreak: is it *definitely* playing through pulse -- you can see the Flash channel in pavucontrol right?04:13
gnomefreakcrimsun: cant find where to set it outside of the command asoundconf set-pulseaudio04:13
crimsungnomefreak: that's the precise command you need to use04:13
gnomefreakalex-weej: pavucontrol gets no connection04:13
alex-weejit sounds like you're running pulse as root again...04:13
gnomefreakalex-weej: nope04:14
alex-weejsomething is wrong here04:14
crimsunin my case, it attempts the connection, which connects and abruptly dies04:14
gnomefreakconnection failed: connection refused04:14
alex-weejcrimsun: pavucontrol!?04:14
alex-weejor flash->alsa->pulse?04:14
gnomefreakpavucontrol gives me the above error04:15
alex-weejcrimsun: if you run pavucontrol while flash is playing04:15
alex-weejdo you see the volume control for Adobe Flash appear and disappear all the time?04:15
gnomefreakhere doesnt matter if flash is playing or not04:15
crimsunalex-weej: the stream registers as a pulse client and dies, as shown in the `pulseaudio -vv' log.  In pavucontrol, the client "flashes".04:15
crimsunyes, it "appears and disappears"04:15
alex-weejcrimsun: yeah that's exactly what i used to get on my i38604:15
alex-weeji will check it out in the morning04:16
gnomefreakwhy is it looking for root when it wasnt ran as root04:16
alex-weejso anyway, aside gnomefreak's pa oddness over authz, that's at least one positive... i say we sit it out and see how many other responses we get04:16
alex-weejincluding my own :)04:16
gnomefreakgnomefreak@Hardy:~$ pulseaudio -vv04:16
gnomefreakI: main.c: Called SUID root and real-time/high-priority scheduling was requested in the configuration. However, we lack the necessary priviliges:04:16
crimsungnomefreak: that's a red herring.04:17
gnomefreakah ok04:17
alex-weeji have to sleep guys04:17
alex-weejthanks, byee!04:17
TheMusoall of this convinces me more that we shouldn't have gone pulse for an LTS.04:18
crimsunwell, it has been pretty clear to me that removing pulse is not viable, but we shouldn't neuter it, either.04:19
* gnomefreak confused with the output after running the asoundconf set-pulseaudio command pulseaudio -vv is showing alot of alsa lines 04:20
crimsungnomefreak: it should be, given you're using the default hardy pulseaudio04:20
crimsun-vv is quite verbose04:20
gnomefreakcrimsun: are you pnly playing the flash or are you running say totem in background?04:22
crimsungnomefreak: I've tried both cases.04:22
* gnomefreak goes to find bug i wrote off04:22
crimsunsame result in both, since other pulse clients are irrelevant04:22
crimsunugh, so I think I've got an alsa-plugins fix, but I'm getting some wack skew eerily reminiscent of the old plugins issue.05:10
dholbachgood morning05:55
* slangasek waves05:59
dholbachhi jsgotangco, hey slangasek06:02
nxvldholbach: gutten tag!06:03
dholbachhi nxvl: Guten Tag! :)06:03
nxvlheh, here it is gutten nacht06:04
nxvlit's 00:0406:04
dholbachhehe :)06:04
dholbachGute Nacht :)06:04
calcinteresting stat trend at w3schools, their visitors will be majority firefox users by end of next year06:14
calcif the percentage users of IE continue to drop at roughly the same rate as the past few years06:14
shadowxphmm curiously06:19
shadowxpwhere is that stat located at w3c?06:19
calcshould be ~ 42% next jan and ~ 47% by jan 2010 if the trend continues06:21
calcwhich would put IE below 47%06:21
calcer all the versions of IE combined that is06:22
calcno wonder microsoft is playing so nice with standards for IE806:22
shadowxpIE8 is definately better06:25
shadowxpat standards then IE706:25
calcthey are going to have to start catching up with standards as firefox is standards compliant and will be the defacto standard browser soon06:25
calcwell mostly compliant06:26
shadowxpyeah, FF3 is definately a real threat06:26
shadowxpto IE06:26
shadowxpwe'll see if M$ actually continues following the standards tho06:26
crimsunTheMuso: I've cleaned up and pushed the correct fix into alsa-plugins's bzr, but I'm unable to test ATM  (lack of sleep)06:27
TheMusocrimsun: No problem, I'll have a look a bit later.06:28
=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== happinessturtle is now known as nenolod
=== Whoopie_ is now known as Whoopie
TheMusoSpare a thought for cjwatson.07:04
TheMusowoops wrong channel07:04
Siliciumhow look for the stable release07:13
Siliciumif i want install a new machine in the next 5h, should i wait for the final?07:14
cjwatsonuse the release candidate and upgrade07:19
=== Sebast1an is now known as Sebastian
gnomefreakcrimsun: are you still awake?07:44
gnomefreakcrimsun: when you get up it seems this PA+flash bug started in Gutsy from what i gathering from someone suffering from it07:46
calcis there a reason that ff can't sort bookmarks?07:47
gnomefreakcalc: no not yet but a bug or 3 on it atm07:48
gnomefreaki havent seen it happen yet07:48
calcgnomefreak: oh ok07:49
calcyea it won't let me sort either :\07:49
gnomefreakcalc: if i get done and sleep ill talk to asa_c or someone about it since ive seen that bug in my email everyday07:49
calcthere are lots of nice organize bookmark sorting methods but it doesn't keep it that way when you quit the organize screen07:49
calcgnomefreak: ok07:50
gnomefreakxalff3 i take it?07:50
calcand the right click sort is greyed out07:50
gnomefreakcalc: ff3 i take it?07:50
calcyea, 8.04 current07:50
gnomefreakyeah its  new to beta5 afair07:51
gnomefreakthis cant be good07:52
pittiGood morning08:17
calcwhee akademy and guadec combined :)08:19
asacgnomefreak: welcome back!!!08:29
FlawlessDoes anybody here have experience with python-central + dh_pycentral ?08:32
FlawlessI'm trying to create a python package, which works well for $PYSHARED/mypackage _except_  for $PYSHARED/mypackage/subfolders08:32
FlawlessWhen I install my package, only files directly into the mypackage dir in the pycentral-dir will be available in /usr/lib/python2.x/site-packages/mypackage08:33
FlawlessI can't figure out why08:33
FlawlessDo I really need to manually make my package install files in /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/foo/ AND /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/foo/ ?08:36
FlawlessI hope this is the right channel? :)08:37
FujitsuFlawless: #ubuntu-motu is better, and we have a release happening within hours. Maybe wait a few days.08:38
FlawlessOh, my bad :)08:38
FlawlessAll the best with 8.04!08:38
AmaranthWe needs mod_evasive :)08:40
jdubrock on, ubunteros :-)08:49
FujitsuHey jdub.08:50
dholbachhi jdub08:52
dholbachI'm still used to type  jd<tab>   - but there's 3 jd* now :)08:53
* dholbach hugs jdub08:53
=== hunger_t is now known as hunger
fabbionejdub: !!!!!!'08:57
MacSlowhey jdub08:57
MacSlowjdub, how's down-uder?08:57
TreenaksMacSlow: quiet, apparently :P09:03
jdubMacSlow: rockin'09:07
jdubMacSlow: the future is awesome. :-)09:07
MacSlowjdub, it should be... glad to hear :)09:08
=== heno_away is now known as heno
seb128_bah, f-spot lacks a good maintainer upstream apparently09:32
mptseb128_, gratuitous WONTFIXes?09:33
seb128_mpt: no,  but the things lacks a lot of polish, there is over 100 strings which are not in the translation template09:33
seb128_it floods stdout when there is no errors (I've distro patched to workaround a bit the issue)09:34
seb128_it was printing things like "open uri = URI" for every photos in your collection09:34
Nailordebug prints ftw.09:34
mptI reported a few bugs and they were all marked WONTFIX because I got the version number wrong by mistake09:35
seb128_debug prints should be conditional to some debug flag to turn in the source or using a command line option09:35
seb128_mpt: utch09:35
Mithrandirrelease builds with -DDEBUG.. mmm. :-P09:35
Nailorseb128_: Yup, that's the policy normally.09:35
seb128_Mithrandir: no, the code just has lot of random System.Console.WriteLine calls09:36
seb128_mpt: that's a shame because otherwise the application itself is nice09:36
Nailorseb128_: Seems like the author of that code's been debugging something and not using the debugging mechanism offered by the language.09:36
NailorAnd, after the problem has been fixed, the stuff is left there09:37
seb128_$ grep Console.WriteLine * -r | wc -l09:37
seb128_it has been debugging a lot then09:37
NailorUh. :)09:38
slomo_seb128_: i guess upstream doesn't believe that anybody is still running applications from a terminal ;)09:38
seb128_and they don't think anybody is using an another locale than english09:40
mptseb128_, nice in comparison with gthumb, perhaps, but compared with the proprietary equivalents it's pretty low-grade09:41
seb128_mpt: right09:42
=== seb128_ is now known as seb128
james_wmvo: hi. Upgrades from Xubuntu dapper do not work if universe is not enabled, is this known.10:07
mvojames_w: no, its not known - we should release note it at this point, I can prepare a fix for -proposed10:07
james_wmvo: also, I can't get the update-manager gui to offer me a hardy upgrade, though do-release-upgrade works10:07
james_wis that related?10:08
mvojames_w: that is with dapper? and the lastest update-manager from dapper-updates?10:11
james_wmvo: yes and yes10:11
mvojames_w: that is update-manager-core, I beliefe what is the version of update-manager?10:12
mvojames_w: please update that to 22.2 (from dapper-updates)10:13
james_wI tried, but it wasn't offered10:13
james_wlet me try again.10:14
henojames_w: I tried an xubuntu dapper->hardy upgrade just now and was offered 8.04 by 'sudo update-manager -d'10:20
james_wheno: ah, ok, thanks. It looks like an error on my part.10:20
henoI rebooted after updating xubuntu dapper, FWIW10:21
henoit does fail on calculating the upgrade though, citing a missing *-desktop package, though xubuntu-desktop is installed10:21
henoI'll report that separately10:22
mvoheno: have you enabled universe ?10:22
stgraberheno: you need universe10:22
* heno tries that10:22
mvoI can prepare a fix for hardy-proposed now, but it will take a bit until its is available (because hardy-proposed is not open yet)10:23
mvoif there is a bugnumber I will comment on it (we probably need to talk to the xubuntu devs as well if we just should unconditionally enable universe for people with xubuntu-desktop installed)10:24
mvoI wouldn't want to add new strings, but then enabling universe without confirmation seems to be not ok too :/10:25
stgrabermvo: xubuntu is now in universe, so the user will have to turn it on for upgrade anyway10:26
henoseems to work now10:26
stgraberI don't see why you would need a confirmation as turning it on is the only way you can upgrade10:26
mvomy only concern with that is, that because universe has a different level of (security) support, they may not want to upgrade10:29
mvobut yeah, most of the ciriticla stuff for security upgrade is in main anyway10:30
mvoso its not a big issue10:30
=== seb128_ is now known as seb128
slangasekand they still have to click 'check' to get a new version, so10:32
ograOMG !10:37
* ogra just accidentially typed dpkg-reconfigure -a instead of dpkg --configure -a in his VM terminal10:38
slangasekunrelated to the release then ;)10:38
ograyeah, sorry :)10:38
RAOFHow many questions will it ask do you reackon, to the nearest hundred? :)10:39
ograRAOF, i just killed the VM now but i bet hundrets10:42
norsettoI knew I was going to screw this up once, anyway I can remove an upload from the pending queue? It was meant for my ppa10:45
pittinorsetto: I can do it (but only because we are frozen; normally it goes straight through)10:46
norsettopitti: yes thanks, ppas are getting me crazy10:46
pittinorsetto: xchat-xsys, I assume; rejected10:46
norsettopitti: thanks, appreciate it10:46
DktrKranz2norsetto: rename "ubuntu" with "where-uploads-matter" in your dput.cf ;)10:47
norsettoDktrKranz2: I'd rather remove the whole ppa actually :-)10:47
* pitti has a wrapper for dput which would select the right queue autoamtically based on the target (-security -> security.upload.ubuntu.com, etc.)10:48
norsettopitti: care to share? I use my ppa seldomly, so I tend to use my "automatic control" which default to ubuntu ...10:49
pittinorsetto: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/uup10:49
DktrKranz2It would be interesting have hardy-ppa as default target for PPA packages, so we won't break stuff10:49
norsettopitti: fantastic, thank you again10:49
pittinorsetto: it also scp's the package to somewhere else first (don't ask), you don't want that; but it might give you some ideas10:49
norsettopitti: yes, looks like it can be easily modified to upload ~ppa packages to the ppa10:51
pittinorsetto: for you, a simple dpkg-parsechangelog |grep ^Version is probably enough for you10:51
pittinorsetto: or, looking at the .changes)10:52
norsettopitti: yes, the first one looks simpler10:52
pittiwell, but you need to be in the source tree for that10:53
pittiI guess you want to have a script which works on a .changes, not on a source tree10:53
norsettopitti: good point10:53
mvoanyone here with a kubuntu dapper VM?10:58
=== chand is now known as chand[aw]
pittislomo_, seb128: what should we do about the tomboy in gutsy-proposed which is sitting there for half a year? what's the testing situation on that?11:06
pittislomo_, seb128: the current one doesn't have the gutsy-security fix applied, so it either needs to be reuploaded, or we remove it again11:06
emgentpitti: thanks for gosa :)11:22
pittiyou're welcome11:22
YokoZarOooh it looks like the torrents are up on the website for the DVD and server release...11:24
davmor2mvo: what's up dude11:28
mvodavmor2: all good :)11:29
davmor2mvo: why the shout about kubuntu dapper?11:30
mvodavmor2: I wanted to check dapper->hardy upgrade procedures with it, but I create a kubunte chroot now11:32
davmor2okay np the only way I could get it work on hw was by installing the core and going with do-release-update have you got a fix for that now?11:33
tjaaltonhmm, why does cupsd want to have write-access to /etc/krb5.conf?11:54
pittitjaalton: that sounds bad indeed, and I don't think I allowed that in the AppArmor profile?11:56
tjaaltonpitti: it's not allowed, but I get an audit warning11:57
=== chand[aw] is now known as chand
pittitjaalton: does it break things? or is it just the cosmetical error?12:02
tjaaltonpitti: seems to be cosmetic12:02
tjaaltonat least I can print :)12:03
=== ryu2 is now known as ryu
cjwatsoncody-somerville: is there a good news article for Xubuntu 8.04 that we can link to from the main announcement?12:24
* cody-somerville is trying to mirror it on the website but wiki is super slow.12:25
cody-somervilleThe wiki keeps timing out.12:25
cjwatsoncody-somerville: intended URL?12:26
cody-somervillehttp://xubuntu.org/news/hardy/release ?12:27
cjwatsonslangasek: ^--12:27
slangasekand what kind of eta might we have for that?12:27
davmor2slangasek: 8.1012:28
=== ivoks_ is now known as ivoks
slangasekcody-somerville: put another way - if you haven't been able to extract it from the wiki by the time the announcement mail goes out, should I include that link anyway or fall back to the homepage?12:29
cody-somervilleOkay, I got it. Please link to that.12:30
slangasekack, thanks12:30
_MMA_slangasek: If you will be including Studio, please also just link to our homepage.12:31
slangasek_MMA_: ack, will do, thanks12:31
aantnare there plans to include a widgets framework in ibex?12:39
aantne.g. screenlets, gdesklets, universal applets12:40
Keybukaantn: no plans, no12:41
aantnKeybuk: ok12:42
aantnI thought I saw a mailing list thread about it a while back12:42
aantnWould that decision change if one of the widget frameworks became stable12:44
Keybukit's not so much of a decision, as a lack of one12:45
aantnI see12:45
* aantn goes back to coding12:45
Keybukpersonally, I don't see the point of widgets12:45
Keybukthey're either under everything so annoying to find12:45
Keybukor on top of everything so in your way12:45
aantnKeybuk: not always12:46
Keybukand seem to just duplicate functionality available elsewhere12:46
Keybuk"ooh, a *pretty* desktop calculator"12:46
aantnos x's dashboard feature is quite nice12:46
aantnthe goal of universal applets is quite different12:46
Keybukso OS X by default gives me:12:47
aantnits an attempt to get rid of duplicate functionality12:47
Keybuka calculator (available in the utilities list)12:47
Keybuka clock, already visible on the screen in the top-right12:47
Keybukthe date, already visible on the screen in the top-right12:47
aantnKeybuk: do you think panel applets have a point?12:47
Keybuka calendar, obtainable by clicking the date in the top-right12:47
Keybukand the weather12:47
Keybukso to me, that duplicates functionality ;)12:48
aantntrue, but that doesn't apply to universal applets12:48
seb128what are universal applets?12:48
aantnand most of the three thousand widgets available on apple's website don't just copy other functionality12:48
Keybukmost of them don't provide _any_ functionality ;)12:49
aantnwidgets simplify the creation of mini programs12:49
mptI think the point of widgets is having half a dozen that you use frequently12:49
mptYou could set up a hotkey for each of them12:49
mptbut collecting them together, you can have a single hotkey for them all12:49
aantnseb128: universal applet's goal is to get rid of the code duplication12:50
seb128aantn: we don't suggest having three thousands applets in the default installation, do you?12:50
Keybukmpt: but wouldn't it be better to just have that hotkey open the app/tool that provides that functionality?12:50
aantnseb128: no12:50
seb128aantn: what feature would you like that is not there yet?12:50
Keybukie. F9 opens the calendar in the top-right12:50
mptKeybuk, no, because then you need to remember half a dozen different hotkeys.12:50
aantnjust the framework installed by default12:50
Keybukmpt: you could have a hotkey open all of them? :)12:50
seb128aantn: there is no such framework12:50
mptKeybuk, sure, and how are you going to close them all again?12:50
aantnmost users don't know that they exist12:50
Keybukand when do you ever need to simultaneously use a calculator and look at the weather? :)12:51
aantnseb128: ?12:51
mptKeybuk, who's suggesting that?12:51
Keybukmpt: that's OS X's default ;)12:51
seb128aantn: there is no "universe applets for GNOME framework"12:51
aantnseb128: universal applets' goal is to reduce duplication of code12:51
aantnseb128: actually...12:51
mptKeybuk, no, that's your assumption of why they're grouped together12:51
Keybukmpt: ?12:51
seb128aantn: no need of applets for that, you can write widgets and library12:52
mptI'm suggesting a different possibility12:52
Keybukmpt: you've confused me :)12:52
aantndevelopment time is valuable12:52
mptKeybuk, I'm suggesting that they're grouped not because you need to use them simultaneously, but because that saves you from having to remember multiple hotkeys, one for each utility.12:52
Keybukmpt: but what makes those things so special?12:53
seb128aantn: right, but there is no for "applets", you can as well have a good toolkit, ie make gtk better12:53
Keybukwhy is a calcuator so special that it shouldn't behave like any other desktop tool?12:53
Keybukshould look and act different12:53
Keybukbe opened differently12:53
aantnright now, devs are wasting time rewriting applets so that they can be displayed in different places on the screen12:53
Keybukhave different accessibility methods12:53
mptKeybuk, only that you need to access it quickly and frequently12:53
aantnKeybuk: they shouldn't12:53
aantnthat's exactly the point12:53
seb128aantn: you will not stop people to rewrite things for the sake of using their preferred language, learning, etc12:54
aantnthere should be a framework to simplify the creation of miniprograms12:54
Keybukmpt: but couldn't the hotkey just open the usual calculator?12:54
aantnseb128: that's different12:54
seb128aantn: use pygtk?12:54
seb128aantn: that allows to write quickly easy programs12:54
* aantn gasps for air12:54
aantngive me a second12:54
mptKeybuk, no, because that wouldn't also open the other utilities you use frequently12:54
Keybukmpt: why not?12:54
aantnI'll explain12:54
KeybukI could have a hot key open all the apps I use frequently12:55
Keybukisn't that the same thing?12:55
aantnpeople want information to be instantly accessible12:55
mpt<mpt> Keybuk, sure, and how are you going to close them all again?12:55
Keybukmpt: how do I close the widgets? :)12:55
aantnthey also want to display it wherever they want12:55
seb128aantn: you need to describe what your interface looks like and what actions do, how you describe it is just a programming language12:55
mptKeybuk, with the same key with which you opened them.12:55
Keybukmpt: I'd close all the apps with the same key with which I opened them12:55
aantne.g. in the panel, in the dock, as a floating window12:56
mptKeybuk, I bet you can't. Not without writing a shell script.12:56
Keybukmpt: I bet I can with some minor patches to the WM and GTK+12:56
Keybukwhich is a lot less effort than inventing an entirely new class of applications12:56
Keybukand an entirely new toolkit to write them in12:56
mptKeybuk, well, congratulations for reinventing Dashboard then :-)12:56
* ogra sighs about the sily bugs.lp.net ui ... who had the glorious idea to force my cursor in the text input field all the time *GGRRRRR*12:56
Keybukmpt: but dashboard doesn't do that12:56
Keybukdashboard opens a *different* calculator12:56
aantnit doesn't work to have them as standalone programs b/c then they can12:56
Keybukand a *different* calendar12:56
seb128aantn: there is some gnome-panel applet which allow to embed applications I think12:56
Keybukand a *different* clock12:56
aantner.. can't12:57
mptAgain, I'm not disputing that it's silly to have an entirely separate platform with *different* applications12:57
Keybukwhich is pretty much my entire objection to it12:57
mptI'm considering only the UI12:57
aantnseb128: if you're talking about swallow then it's broken12:57
aantnand extremely hackish12:57
Keybuk(random fact, every time I want the Calculator, I open the Character Map ...12:57
aantnKeybuk: again, that's what universal applets is coming to solve12:57
Keybuk and every time I want the Character Map, I open the Calculator)12:57
mptThe most convenient calculator I ever used was on the Amiga12:58
Keybukaantn: the last commit to screenlets was "improved draw rectangle functions"12:58
aantnusers should have the freedom to display the calculator wherever they want12:58
Keybukaantn: this to me suggests you're attempting to write a new toolkit12:58
aantnKeybuk: that's not universal applets12:58
mptI could type Amiga =, the Calculator popped into view, I typed my equation, pressed Enter, and the result was typed into whatever window I had been in at the time12:58
aantnKeybuk: I'm not12:58
Keybukit was the "I'm feeling lucky" for it12:58
seb128_dsl disconnected12:59
aantnluck is fickle12:59
seb128_aantn: there is some gnome-panel applet which allow to embed applications I think12:59
seb128_aantn: not true, you just need a way to embed widgets in the gnome-panel and what you call "dock" dynamically12:59
Keybukaantn: it's your own repository! :D12:59
aantnseb128: if you're talking about swallow then it's broken12:59
seb128_well, I didn't say this one is working correctly or right12:59
aantnKeybuk: correct12:59
seb128_but that's basically what you want12:59
Keybukto me, we don't need any kind of framework here13:00
aantndevelopers should have the freedom applications in any language they want13:00
Keybukjust some thought into the UI of launching applications and tools13:00
seb128_anyway you don't want a desklet in your panel13:00
aantnand the applications should automagically show up anywhere the user wants13:00
seb128_because the panel is usually 24 pixels wide where the desklets can use the whole desktops13:00
aantnseb128_: if the user wants them on the panel then they should be on the panel13:01
seb128_aantn: you have the freedom to use any language you want13:01
aantnseb128_: correct13:01
aantnthat's the whole concept behind universal applets13:01
seb128_aantn: then the user can use this broken applet which embed things on the panel ;-)13:01
Keybukactually, a key to make the calculator show up under my mouse would be quite welcome ;)13:01
seb128_aantn: ? that's not a concept, you can use any language you want today13:01
aantnseb128_: and what if he wants to display it in epiphany's sidebar13:02
Keybukaantn: err, he shouldn't? that's crackful13:02
aantnseb128_: in universal applets, I meant13:02
seb128_you just need a way to embed things wherever you want13:02
seb128_you want libbobobo back ;-)13:02
aantnKeybuk: again, that's what universal applets does13:02
aantnit's made up of two parts13:02
aantnseb128_: not anymore13:02
Keybukaantn: why would you ever want to embed a calculator into epiphany?13:02
Keybukthat's silly13:02
seb128_nobody wants this universal applets thing13:02
Keybukjust because you _can_ doesn't mean you _should_13:03
seb128_no normal user13:03
aantnseb128_: you'd be surprised13:03
Keybukwhat use case are you fulfilling here?13:03
aantnI'm coming to solve the *fact* that there are at least 5 different gmail applets13:03
aantnone for awn, one for screenlets, one for gnome-panel, etc.13:03
seb128_you will never solve that13:03
seb128_people will rewrite things just because they think they can do better13:04
aantnoh, and bigboard13:04
seb128_or don't like the way the current ones are done13:04
aantnseb128_: that's not why they've been rewritten13:04
seb128_or want to use an another programming language13:04
seb128_or an another toolkit13:04
aantnthe awn terminal applet was rewritten just so that it could be displayed as a screenlet13:04
aantnit's laughable, but people are doing it13:04
seb128_good for them13:04
aantnseb128_: forks are nearly always bad13:05
seb128_not true13:05
seb128_those are not forks13:05
seb128_they are different ways to do things13:05
seb128_that encourage innovation, etc13:05
aantnseb128_: developers should be spending time adding on new features and not getting applets to show up in different places13:06
aantnseb128_: not at all13:06
seb128_well, those people choice to duplicate work13:06
seb128_if you take GNOME there is no real duplication13:06
aantnbecause no alternative exists13:06
seb128_they should better join a project and work on making things better13:06
seb128_I start thinking you are here to troll ;-)13:06
aantnseb128_: hardly13:07
mptseb128_, lighten up :-)13:07
aantnhowever, I'm still unsure what your argument is13:07
seb128_I've no argument13:07
aantnthe fact is that developers are wasting time forking13:07
seb128_I just think your universe applet thing is a vapoware13:07
seb128_they don't need to13:07
seb128_they can contribute to existant project13:08
aantnany solution to that problem is good, especially if it makes the users happy13:08
seb128_they decide to do so13:08
aantnthey don't contribute to existing projects because the users want the applet to be displayed elsewhere13:08
aantnyou can bring back the calculator example13:09
seb128_why can't they join a project and help solving this issue13:09
seb128_rather than reinventing everything13:09
aantnseb128_: because applet devs are easier to find then applet framework devs13:09
seb128_what you tries to do is just embed widgets13:10
aantnwouldn't it be much easier if the calculator could just show up wherever the user wanted13:10
aantnthere would be no need for a separate widget13:10
seb128_but why do you need to rewrite thing for that?13:11
aantnthe application itself would function as a widget when necessary13:11
seb128_why don't you just use libbonobo to embed existant widgets?13:11
seb128_nautilus was doing that years ago13:11
aantnseb128_: because I think it can be done in a simpler way13:11
seb128_eog was embeded for image viewing13:11
aantnand then they stopped because it was broken13:11
seb128_yeah, but why not fixing it?13:11
seb128_rather than reinvent a whole new concept13:12
aantnI thought that a fresh codebase would help13:12
seb128_and no, it was not broken13:12
aantn(and it did)13:12
seb128_they just decided that was not a good user experience13:12
seb128_a filemanager is there to manage files13:12
seb128_when viewing an image you want to open an image viewer13:12
aantnyou can say the same thing about firefox extensions13:13
seb128_because the interfaces, etc are different13:13
aantnyet firefox users are happy and consider extensions to be ff's best feature13:13
seb128_ok, I stop there13:13
seb128_you are a troll13:13
aantnmost extensions have nothing to do with browsing13:13
seb128_you have a similar feature in nautilus13:13
Kim^JEveryone an Ubuntu-dev?13:14
seb128_and add functions is different than turning your application is something else dynamically13:14
aantnthis argument isn't going anywhere, so I'll stop if you'd prefer13:14
aantnseb128_: features like that do NOT belong in Nautilus core13:14
seb128_I'm stopping this discussion, I've spent too much time trolling already13:14
seb128_I should stop doing that ;-)13:14
Kim^JWhich feature?13:14
cjwatsonKim^J: this channel has a high population of Ubuntu developers, though not exclusively13:15
cjwatsonwe'd appreciate it being kept for development coordination13:15
* aantn gulps13:15
Kim^Jcjwatson: Sure. :) Give me something to develop. :)13:15
cjwatsonKim^J: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu13:15
Kim^JThough I don't do Ubuntu anymore on desktop. :|13:15
cjwatson(can't give you something specific, it depends on your personal skills and interests)13:16
aantnKim^J: what language?13:16
Kim^Jaantn: C++, PHP, more if you like.13:16
aantn(I'm not speeking for ubuntu)13:16
SEJeffKim^J, So help out the serverteam13:16
aantnnot a bad idea13:16
=== rraphink is now known as raphink
* Keybuk wants to write applications in PHP13:16
Kim^JSEJeff: Mkay.13:16
* cjwatson checks. Did somebody replace Keybuk?13:17
Kim^JKeybuk: No you don't. ;) Trust me on that one.13:17
stgraberKeybuk: let's use PHP+GTK instead of Python+GTK :)13:17
cjwatsoncody-somerville: http://xubuntu.org/news/hardy/release says access denied; known?13:17
* cody-somerville nods.13:17
Kim^JWell, busride home, Laters!13:18
cody-somervillecjwatson, It'll become available when the release announcement is sent out.13:18
stgrabercjwatson, cody-somerville: that's Drupal's behaviour for not published content13:18
cjwatsonjust making sure you'll be able to publish it13:18
persiacody-somerville: It used to work, and the torrents seem to work.13:18
cjwatsonI don't know if xubuntu.org has the same kinds of load problems as ubuntu.com13:19
cody-somervilleI doubt it. We're on a different server.13:19
cody-somervilleWe're on humboldt13:19
=== slangasek changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 8.04 LTS released! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/edgy/feisty/gutsy, #ubuntu+1 for hardy | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
james_wcongratulations everyone.13:21
james_wespecially slangasek, thanks a lot.13:22
lagayup :)13:22
pedro_congrats folks!13:22
stgrabercongrats slangasek and the others13:22
slangasekgood job, all13:23
* cody-somerville cheers.13:23
slangaseknow for .1 :)13:23
lagaslangasek: get some sleep first :)13:23
slangaseklaga: yes, I'm following the process on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseProcess diligently ;)13:24
TheMusoWell done folks.13:25
mrtimdogIs there a download stats page for HH? Just thought it may be interesting if one exists :)13:26
AstralJavaConga-rats all-around!13:28
StevenKslangasek: Nice work!13:28
Mithrandircongrats everybody.13:28
lagamirrors aren't updated yet ;)13:28
Mithrandirreleases.u.c seems slighly overloaded.13:29
slangaseklaga: many of them are13:29
lagai'm being impatient ;)13:30
persialaga: Torrents are operational, and fairly well seeded for most CDs.13:30
=== ryu2 is now known as ryu
lagai just had some trouble getting to the .torrents13:31
lagai've got it now13:31
pochucongratulations folks!13:36
pochuand the question now is: when can I start uploading to Intrepid? :)13:36
seb128_hey pochu13:36
TheMusopochu: lol13:36
seb128_pochu: what about fixing hardy issues for a while still? you can upload to hardy-proposed already13:36
pochuhi seb128_13:37
PiciThats no fun :(13:37
pochuseb128_: oh, that's cool too ;)13:37
pochuPici: why not?13:37
pochuPici: you can break more things there, so there's more fun!13:37
Picipochu: Oh, in that case.... :P13:37
jdubcongrats dudes. :_)13:38
seb128_jdub: thanks ;-)13:38
* ogra hugs jdong 13:38
ograyou too13:38
* ogra hugs jdub 13:38
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about kirby - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi13:38
Amaranthwanted to dance :)13:38
ale1hey all, congrats to all for the work on hardy!!! Im running the RC now. :-) im looking for some doc's on how to mount a usb drive at boot to the same mount point. . . any ideas?? Ive been looking into UDEV rules but i got confused . . . :-(13:40
cody-somervilleAre the torrents for Xubuntu been updated?13:42
cody-somervilleSomeone is reporting the sizes are different or something13:42
cody-somervilleNvm, they report SUF13:42
cjwatsoncody-somerville: not to my knowledge13:43
cody-somervillestupid user failure, apparently.13:43
ograubuntuized that would be a UUF13:44
ograunexperienced user failure :)13:44
* Hobbsee waves13:45
* persia prefers inexperienced to avoid confusion with 'U' as "Ubuntu"13:45
mok0uwf blocked my torrent download13:52
=== mdz_ is now known as mdz
cody-somervilleIs it just me or does the Ubuntu homepage not render correctly anymore? :P14:07
Hobbseepeople are hammering it...14:07
cody-somervilleYes but the page doesn't render correctly.14:08
cody-somervilleThe left nav is getting pushed to the right side of the page.14:08
broonieOften that's due to a timeout on some essential component of the page.14:08
* cody-somerville doesn't think that is the case.14:10
pittiso then, let the hardy SRU madness begin!14:10
* pitti processes -proposed14:10
seb128pitti: waouh ;-)14:11
sistpoty|workcody-somerville: works for me, at least if js is turned off :)14:11
cjwatsoncody-somerville: http://xubuntu.org/news/hardy/release <- Xubuntu 8.04 isn't LTS; could you please remove that bit?14:13
cjwatsonI'm not sure Xubuntu 6.06 is accurately described as LTS either, although we weren't so clear on terminology then14:14
cjwatsoncody-somerville: I believe that all the release-noted items there were addressed after RC, too, though I'm not sure about the last one ("Dictionary packages are not properly installed from the Alternative CD" - by the way that should be Alternate install CD not Alternative)14:15
kagouCongratulations to all !14:18
davmor2Congrats to everyone :)14:20
Mithrandirhm, release notes for 8.04 seems to be missing from http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes14:23
pittilaga: FYI, I reject your hardy-proposed upload; please reupload with a proper SRU bug reference14:23
lagapitti: thanks.14:23
pittilaga: thank you; sorry for the strictness, but without a bug# it's a pain to check and track14:24
lagapitti: i wasn't even aware it went to hardy-proposed. i'll do a normal SRU14:24
=== smarter____ is now known as smarter
=== gnomefre1k is now known as gnomefreak
=== aragua0 is now known as aragua
emgenthappy hardy day :P15:54
Hobbseeemgent: join the fun in #ubuntu-release-party, if you like15:55
=== sebner_ is now known as sebner
emgentHobbsee: :)16:09
zyga_I'd like to point out that the current ubuntu.com page is broken on safari16:11
zyga_compared to firefox there is an unexpected bar with menus on the right16:11
zyga_in firefox the menus are on the left, below the flash banner16:12
zyga_since it's D-day I guess public visibility is important and someone might care about changing that16:12
zyga_oh... someone fixed that116:14
seb128zyga_: that's likely due to some timeouts16:14
zyga_might be so, anyway it looks great now16:14
cody-somervilleI don't think it is timeouts16:21
cody-somervilleIt isn't rendering correctly in firefox 2 or safari16:21
* cody-somerville notes that it is fixed though if you reload the entire thing.16:23
cody-somervilleFor firefox 2 atleast.16:23
seb128cody-somerville: are you sure the first try just didn't timeout?16:25
cody-somervilleI just talked with Matthew16:25
seb128ah ok16:25
cody-somervilleThere was an issue.16:25
=== danielm_ is now known as danielm
alex-weejgnomefreak: you there?16:47
Fujisanhappy bd hardy heron :)16:51
Fujisancan i party here Hobbsee had to ban me from the party16:51
Fujisanfor a joke16:51
Fujisani will tell you all about iut16:51
lagai guess it wasn't funny16:51
PiciTricking people into pressing ctrl+alt+backspace usually isnt.16:52
lagayeah, that causes stabby thoughts16:52
ion_I wouldn't mind there being a confirmation for ctrl-alt-backspace, though. :-)16:53
thomthat would be mad irritating16:54
ion_Well, as in "you have to hit the combination twice". Not really a problem IMO.16:54
Kim^JWith checkbox ``Don't ask me again.'' that actually WORKS.16:54
Hobbseelaga: he's doing it in multiple channels.16:57
lagaHobbsee: time for a nice k-line handed out by freenode staff16:57
Hobbseelaga: i don't take kindly to harassment, and the freenode staffers appear to be all out drinking.16:57
Hobbseelaga: they say "ignore him, it's only one user"16:57
Hobbseelaga: usually they do though, yes.16:57
ChipzzHobbsee: what a sick fuck17:07
ChipzzI hope he enjoys the k-line17:07
HobbseeChipzz: that wasn't his only channel.  nor was it the worst he did.  eh's not klined yet, either.17:08
* Hobbsee grumbles at freenode staff.17:08
ChipzzI hope he will be though17:08
Hobbseehe shoudl be, if freenode actually follow their policies17:08
ChipzzI messaged him in private to express my thoughts about him17:08
Chipzzyou wanna know the funny part?17:08
HobbseeChipzz: don't do that.  he comes out with some *really* weird stuff in PM17:08
Hobbseesure, it might be amusing17:08
Chipzzhe actually accused me of harassing him17:08
alex-weejcrimsun: turns out libflashsupport was installed as part of ia32-libs on my system. it is, indeed, needed. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/19288817:09
ubotuLaunchpad bug 192888 in pulseaudio "firefox crashes on flash contents" [High,In progress]17:09
ChipzzI told him him I'ld rather believe a respected member of the community (you) than some sick fuck (him)17:09
Chipzztricking people into pressing c-a-b :(17:10
ChipzzI wonder how much hours of work was lost :(17:10
Hobbseeprobably not many, seeing as it was -r-p, and so they were probably just watching irc.17:11
ChipzzI still think it's pretty sick though17:12
Chipzzthough I probably wouldn't have lost much, because a) I know what c-a-b does, and b) I do all my work inside a screen anyway :)17:13
Hobbseeheh, yes17:18
HobbseeChipzz: lots of people are pretty sick.  it appears that certian types of people attract them.17:18
Chipzzwhat's worse17:19
Chipzzit may give linux a bad name17:19
Chipzz"I accidently pressed these keys, and I lost a whole day of work"17:19
lagait gives idiots a bad name IMHO17:20
Chipzzkinda reminds me of that Apple ad though ;)17:20
Chipzzwhat that stoned girl17:20
Chipzzwhat's her name again? :)17:20
lagaparis hilton?17:20
ChipzzEllen Feis17:21
johanbrLeslie Feist. And what makes you think she's stoned?17:21
keesso, apt will order dpkg actions correctly, but if I have a mess of packages to install (like say Ooo), is there a way to simulate apt's dpkg install order?17:22
Chipzzjohanbr: s/stoned/"stoned"/17:23
Chipzzshe probably isn't, but there were lots of people who though she was17:23
sistpoty|workkees: I'm not too sure, but if you give dpkg multiple packages, doesn't it do the right thing then?17:23
ion_sudo dpkg --unpack *.deb && sudo apt-get -f install17:24
Chipzzsistpoty|work: no, I don't think it does17:24
ion_Close enough?17:24
keessistpoty|work: it doesn't always. (like when there are specific depends on eachother).  doing it a second time works, though.17:24
Chipzzion_: no17:24
keesion_: hmm17:24
Chipzzthat's not what he was asking17:24
Chipzzkees: --dry-run?17:24
Chipzzor something like that?17:25
Chipzzyup, correct option17:25
keesChipzz: let me try with --dry-run...17:25
Chipzznot sure if it will be of any use to you though17:25
Chipzzion_: you were answering "how do I install a bunch of packages", which was not at all what he was asking17:26
Chipzzion_: I'm guessing he wanted to figure out possible interactions due to the order of unpacking and pre/post|install/rm scripts17:27
ion_chipzz: Yes, i misparsed the question.17:27
Chipzzion_: :)17:27
keesChipzz: well, it seems to be an issue with "I can't install A because B needs A to be installed first.  if I had done dpkg -i B A it would have worked, e.g.17:28
kees(but I had run dpkg -i A B)17:28
=== edusilva is now known as edsiper
sistpoty|workkees: imho the only real way to figure out all bits is to use a local repo and use apt then (e.g. circular deps will get broken up by apt in way I always forget)17:29
Chipzzsistpoty|work: but you're probably right that dpkg /should/ do the right thing though. except it doesn't ;)17:29
keessistpoty|work: yeah, that's what I'm thinking.  honestly, doing that would save me a little pain in getting builds to my VMs anyway.17:30
keesI really want  apt-get install .17:31
keeseek mutant smiley17:31
ion_I have file:/var/cache/pbuilder/result in sources.list and an apt pre-invoke hook that basically runs dpkg-scanpackages in the directory. :-)17:31
ion_A quick hack that works FSVO works. :-)17:32
ion_Whoops, APT::Update::Pre-Invoke, that is.17:33
Milos_SDHi all ... Can someone tell me does 64bit ubuntu kernel has all drivers for TV cards as 32bit has? And does all common applications (audio/video decoding/encoding) are working?17:42
Kim^JMilos_SD: Just use 32-bit.17:44
mjg59Milos_SD: All the same drivers should be included17:45
mjg59Kim^J: No. Please don't advise people to do that.17:45
gnomefreak/win 117:45
Kim^Jmjg59: Why not? Less trouble, people often doesn't need 64-bits anyways.17:45
mjg59Because it's not an answer to the question asked, and you've no idea what his requirements are17:47
Milos_SDWell, I have C2D CPU, and 64bit is logical solution ... 32bit is nice, but ... 64bit is maybe faster, or it is not?17:47
mjg59It is17:47
mjg59Milos_SD: But #ubuntu is the right place to ask about this17:48
Kim^Jmjg59: About 99.99% of the people asking questions about 64-bit doesn't have a clue WHY they need it. Just that they need it. The other 00.01% have a VERY good reason to use 64-bit.17:50
_MMA_Kim^J: Link to those stats? In the end, it wasn't the needed answer to the question.17:51
=== Hobbsee is now known as foo___
=== foo___ is now known as Hobbsee
Milos_SDat #ubuntu I can't get the answer ... So many times I asked diffrent questions there, but almost never got the answer ...17:54
Kim^J_MMA_: Well, it's not stats, just what I've experienced as an Ubuntu-supporter for the last 3 years.17:54
LaserJockpractically, Flash and Java are a tad more trouble to get going, but that's the only problem I've seen with 64-bit Ubuntu17:55
mjg59LaserJock: I don't think Flash is even an issue these days, given the automatic pulling in of nspluginviewer17:56
lagaflash sucks on both platforms17:56
LaserJockmjg59: ah17:57
Kim^Jlaga: Flash always suck. ;)17:58
laga(i hate adobe for flash)17:58
calccool my webcam works, cheese is the first time i had something to use it with :)17:58
Kim^JOh well, are there any cool projects to jump into? (Not to hard to read the code, fairly small.)17:58
highvoltagelaga: there's much better things to hate adobe for, imho17:59
LaserJockcalc: hah, same here17:59
lagahighvoltage: but flash is the only one which crashes my browser17:59
* calc thinks something that should be included by default for 8.10 if room can be found18:00
calchelps users see their hardware works properly18:00
Amaranthcalc: Like a little 3D demo with sound?18:00
lagaAmaranth: does dxdiag.exe work in wine?18:00
mjg59laga: Ironically, on 64-bit flash can't crash your browser...18:01
Amaranthi love how http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/804features/ shows compiz with a cube18:01
Amaranthwhich is not the default and not real simple to switch to18:01
cjwatsonKim^J: ... guess you won't be wanting openoffice.org then18:02
lagamjg59: no, it just tends to become unusable.  but i think it got better recently18:02
Kim^Jcjwatson: No, not really. That's kinda out of my leauge. :)18:02
cjwatsonKim^J: seriously, need a little more idea about the sorts of things you're interested in (topics rather than languages)18:02
lagawe always need python slaves for mythbuntu ;)18:02
Kim^Jlaga: NO WAY.18:03
Kim^JI avoid Python as much as I can.18:03
Kim^Jcjwatson: Hmm, I'm into computers, like when things follow KISS and are REALLY simple to use. (But not Gnome-simple, there MUST be functionality to it.)18:03
highvoltageGnome has pleny of functionality.18:04
Kim^Jhighvoltage: No, I go with Linus Torvalds on Gnome.18:04
highvoltageKim^J: if you want to see minmilism and oversimplicity go too far, try OSX, I tried it out and it frustrated me endlessly. but I'm not going to discuss that here.18:05
_MMA_*sigh* This is gonna be productive.18:05
calcAmaranth: yea for 3d test, though compiz is on by default now, for testing webcam's built into laptops, etc cheese looks like it would work well18:05
Kim^Jhighvoltage: I don't want oversimplicity, but I shouldn't have to dig into a tonne of manuals just to get something really simple to work. (I haven't seen this yet though...)18:06
Kim^Jhighvoltage: And btw, I have tried OS X. :)18:06
\shwhoever proposed the new default ff page...cudos for it...well done, looks really incredible18:21
stgraberjust noticed it, indeed that's really great job18:22
\shbut this "uninstall feature" which is advertised on ubuntu.com, I really don't understand....what is left when you uninstall ubuntu?18:22
cjwatson\sh: it's meant as a joke - I think it's a mistake18:23
cjwatson(rather, I think it's a mistaken humour target since it's something people request)18:23
_MMA_Sure its not related to Wubi?18:23
* _MMA_ looks.18:23
\shcjwatson, hehe...my statement was a joke, too...in the spirit of this ad :) actually it made me laugh :)18:23
cjwatsonnot really as written18:23
\sh_MMA_, really no18:23
cjwatsonalthough it is true that wubi allows uninstallation18:23
\shcjwatson, and again thx for fixing this >2TB part stuff...it helped me a lot18:24
cjwatsonglad to help18:24
highvoltage\sh: how's hardy running on your servers?18:24
evandI figured that's what the ad was referring to.18:24
\shhighvoltage, rock solid :)18:24
highvoltage\sh: *excellent*18:25
\shhighvoltage, it took me around 15-20 mins to install server + application ...18:25
highvoltage\sh: the magic of ubuntu and free software :)18:25
\shhighvoltage, actually, my colleague said: "dude, why do you install beta software, hardy's not ready for release"18:25
* jdong has seeded 27GiB since the morning18:26
stgraberjdong_: 93G so far here :)18:26
jdongstgraber: nice :)18:26
* stgraber is watching his monthly quota melting18:26
\shI told him, "friend, it's two days before final release the RC is rock solid, and I trust at least my work on hardy...so go to hell with your "it's beta software"18:26
highvoltage\sh: yeah, I read your blog entry on it18:27
\sh"i know most people working on it...and I trust them with my last penny"18:27
\shhighvoltage, there will be a followup .. the product and some pictures...18:28
\shwhen I finished to upgrade to hardy from my dapper root18:28
mok0seeding at 1.4 MB/s18:32
mok08Gb so far18:32
* highvoltage wish he could have that kind of connection18:32
mok0BT is awesome18:33
Hobbseemok0: i've been seeding at 15MB/s for the past few hours...18:33
Hobbseeit's....really nice18:33
Hobbseebut man, ti chews bandwidth.18:33
Hobbsee(that's an ave bandwidth, not a max)18:33
* laga has been seeding at 1mbit/s :/18:34
stgraber20MB/s for some hours here too (server is on Gigabit)18:34
laganow it's down to 400kbit/s. sad18:34
highvoltagemok0: BT as in British Telecom?18:34
\shif (server is back again) then { starting btlaunchmanycurses . --max_upload_rate 300} else { wasted bandwidth at all }18:34
mok0highvoltage: BT as in BitTorrent18:34
highvoltagemok0: shew :)18:34
mok0highvoltage: hehe18:35
mok0I don't remember other Ubuntu releases distributed via torrents... I may be wrong...18:35
\shmok0, since hoary or breezy I think?18:36
mok0\sh: ah ,ok18:36
\shbut I think maswan will have a lot of fun watching the trafic meter today ;)18:37
mok0From the upload stats I estimated that i386 is more popular than amd64 in the ratio 2:118:37
\shmok0, well, most people are still using i386 over amd64...18:37
\shmok0, desktop wise...18:37
mok0right amd64 server is doing better18:38
\shand today I found a nice glitch in php5 and zend-framework18:38
\shusing crc32 is PITA18:38
\sh(means, a different behaviour on i386 and amd64)18:39
mok0Going now, see you18:42
\shKids, don't do that at home....18:48
\shroot@server3:~# w18:48
\sh<\sh>  19:46:53 up 188 days,  5:29,  2 users,  load average: 85,26, 138,34, 151,9418:48
\shdapper rocks...18:48
\shit just doesn't want to die18:48
highvoltageat least it's coming down and not up :)18:48
\sha load of over 100 and this fcking bastard still serves dircproxy really nicely.18:48
\shsmtp, imap, web , everything's doomed, but dircproxy still works lol18:49
\shhighvoltage, yeah.. load average: 3,17, 64,95, 118,83 nice numbers...really18:50
\shmysql went crazy...too many connections...why soever.,..I need to investigate18:50
\shand finally ordered a new rootserver as a fall back18:50
\sh4GB ram, dual core opteron , 800 GB storage, unlimited traffic..18:51
bluefoxicyguys update-manager is just hanging trying to get the update program for 8.0418:51
bluefoxicythe servers are freaking loaded ~_~  Have you considered using a bittorrent-like method?18:52
bluefoxicyI must go to work now18:52
highvoltagebluefoxicy: I think there was a spec for that once18:53
lagai wonder why canonical doesn't buy some bandwidth from akamai for the release18:54
\shlaga, akamai is expensive ...18:55
lagaoh. i thought they might throw in a few terabytes for $5 or so ;)18:55
\shlaga, and they don't follow your rules..but you have to follow their rules...sometimes this is not possible18:56
zultorrents are available though18:56
realistakamai pricing is negotiable too18:56
laga\sh: i've never worked with them. i've just heard they have mad bandwidth18:57
realistlaga: they cache your content at their own POPs18:58
realistLike, a distributed proxy18:58
\shlaga, bandwidth is no problem today18:58
laga\sh: why are people complaining about slow mirrors then? ;)18:59
highvoltage\sh: have you forgotten what south africa is like!?18:59
\shhighvoltage, no :)19:00
\shhighvoltage, but actually it's only a matter of money today :)19:00
KeybukErr http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com gutsy Release.gpg19:00
Keybuk  Could not connect to gb.archive.ubuntu.com:80 (, connection timed out19:00
=== DreamThi1f is now known as DreamThief
highvoltageKeybuk: sorry :)19:01
* \sh waits for mirroring archive.ubuntu.com until next week19:02
highvoltage\sh: don't you have a local mirror to mirror from?19:02
\shhighvoltage, the local de.mirror gives me 43kB/s19:02
\shhighvoltage, and mostly this mirror is outdated when I start my mirror job19:03
\shhighvoltage, and every german mirror at all...19:03
highvoltage\sh: ouch19:04
=== cpro1 is now known as cprov
\shhighvoltage, actually I mirrored the company mirror from my home machine ;)19:06
highvoltage\sh: been there :)19:07
nxvli thought that the day after release would be calm and a little like vacation19:08
nxvlbut now i know that are the worsts days!19:08
lagais it the day after release? still release day for me :)19:08
nxvli mean the days19:08
highvoltagestill release day in most places19:08
nxvlincluding the release day19:08
nxvlwell i could say "after release" insted of "the days after"19:09
\shnxvl, it's not down under or near there, here :)19:09
nxvl\sh: huh?19:10
\shnxvl, germany has still 4 hours to go to call it "after release day" ;)19:10
nxvl\sh: oh! yes, here it is still 11 hours19:10
nxvl\sh: but i mean from the moment of the release to some days after that19:11
\shnxvl, yeah..but .NZ or .AU is already "after release day" imho19:11
nxvlor at least is what i wanted to say19:11
alex-weejLinux 2.6.24-16 hangs on "Begin: Waiting for root file system... ..." whereas -15 doesn't19:11
alex-weejeventually it claims /dev/disk/by-uuid/etc doesn't exist19:11
Kim^J\sh: NZ/AU as in what?19:11
\shnew zealand , australia19:12
Kim^JI have 4 hours left on release day. :)19:12
* \sh needs a smoke...and some more beer19:12
realistConincidently, it's ANZAC day today :-)19:12
Kim^J\sh: If you're in Germany, I'm above you. :)19:12
\shKim^J, hmm...8:12pm here...19:13
Kim^J\sh: 2013 here. :)19:13
johanbrKim^J: You're five years in the future?19:14
Kim^Jjohanbr: Naaah. :P Time. :P19:14
Kim^Jjohanbr: And hey. :)19:14
\shKim^J, so it's the same time actually ;) 8:27pm is in 24h mode: 2027 ;)19:27
Kim^J\sh: I know, I just prefer to write 0000 (Military-damage...)19:28
cjwatsonKeybuk: gb.archive isn't in the datacentre ...19:34
Keybuk 5. ubuntu.datahop.it                 0.0%     2   39.4  39.8  39.4  40.1   0.519:35
Keybukyes it is19:35
elmono it's not19:35
Keybukwhere is that then19:35
elmoit's our hardware, but hosted by datahop, in one of their data centres19:35
ograone could have guessed that :) .... (ubuntu.datahop.it)19:36
KeybukI thought datahop meant it was the dh pipe to our data centre19:43
elmono, the dh pipe is called canonical-gw.datahop.it or something19:48
Keybuksilly me19:52
Keybukis it stacked on top of boxes of beer?19:52
calcwhat is the command to generate the uuid's in /etc/fstab?20:06
calcer to find out what they are for a partition i mean20:06
cjwatsonvol_id --uuid20:06
calcah ok20:06
* calc thinks that should be in the comments at the top of /etc/fstab20:06
=== nenolod_ is now known as happinessturtle
hungerThe servers are ridiculously slow, so you probably managed to release;-) Congratulations to a job well done.20:30
Jessica_lillyim using the native linux drivers for my wireless card and hardy is just freezing and wont come out of the freeze but everything else seems good so thanks for the realese20:30
lagaJessica_lilly: you should file a bug report20:30
Jessica_lillythe card i have is known to cause problems with linux no distro can make it work but ubuntu20:31
Jessica_lillyand it will only work for me in gutsy20:31
sabdflvery well done all20:33
* _MMA_ waves.20:33
megabyte405congrats on the release, hitting the torrent now.  looking forward to finishing up the abiword integration soon20:43
mario_limonciellslangasek, has the DVD final not been mastered?  I got through to cdimages.ubuntu.com briefly but didn't see it there.20:51
calcmario_limonciell: it was there earlier today20:54
cjwatsonmario_limonciell: should be http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/8.04/release/20:54
mario_limonciellcjwatson, hm DVD's too? didn't see this morning, but i'll keep trying to get connected and see.20:56
=== ryu2 is now known as ryu
cjwatsonmario_limonciell: that directory just has DVDs and source20:58
mathiazjcastro: is it possible to change the category of an idea on brainstorm ?21:28
mathiazstgraber: ^^21:29
jcastromathiaz: stgraber is the person to ask - let me know what the answer is though, I am interested as well21:29
* jcastro doesn't see a way to change it21:30
mathiazjcastro: oh - I've found it - edit the description21:32
mathiazjcastro: there is menu to change the category21:32
jcastroah, nice21:33
juliankcjwatson: I send you an email, but please don't answer, as it's the wrong one. I'll send a new one to the list.21:52
juliankcjwatson: The second one is sent21:55
=== gnomefre1k is now known as gnomefreak
=== gnomefre1k is now known as gnomefreak
=== thegodfather is now known as fabbione
Caesartjaalton: where's the source package for the fix for #113679?22:34
smallfoot-the new start page in firefox for 8.04 is much better than old one, its much easier!22:35
RussellGeeim in love with it :p22:39
crimsunalex-weej: heh, thought as much.22:40
=== gnomefre3k is now known as gnomefreak
n6rejI hope someone is here to help because I've REAL problems all of the sudden on my server after upgrading to hardy :(23:23
n6rejits saying it SRST faileD?23:23
n6rejcan someone PLEASE help?23:24
lagan6rej: try #ubuntu23:24
lagaand make sure to provide the complete error message23:24
n6rejyeah, its crazy over there23:24
n6rejlaga: I generally do.  Its saying /dev/disk/byuuid/blah does not exist :(23:25
n6rejthats what I came here when nobody answered over there23:26
smallfoot-plz add 7z support out-of-the-box23:42
ted1smallfoot-: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/23:46

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