[00:01] <bryce> hmm, ok
[00:22] <elmo> when you select reboot the system in rescue mode, it just dumps you back into the top level menu
[00:23] <elmo> known bug?  if not, which package should I be looking at, to file a bug on?
[00:23] <cjwatson> known bug, fixed in Debian, we forgot to do the sync after RC, will fix for 8.04.1
[00:23] <elmo> k, thx
[00:23] <cjwatson> bug 218549
[00:23] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 218549 in rescue "Choosing "Reboot" in rescue menu jumps to main menu -- sync rescue from Debian" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218549
[00:35] <jjkbj> hi
[00:57] <ScottK> bryce: Would you have a moment to help me with a release note about multi-monitor support for Kubuntu?  As I understand it with displayconfig all we have is xinerama and that's not so much supported.  If you can give me a few hints, I can make it sound nice.
[00:57] <bryce> ScottK: sure
[00:57] <ScottK> Thanks.
[00:57] <bryce> ScottK: I'm not totally up on where Kubuntu is with xrandr support, but I recall seeing some KDE screenshots that seemed to provide xrandr 1.2 options - is that correct?
[00:58] <ScottK> For KDE3 we have what displayconfig provides (I assume kde/gtk would be the same).
[00:58] <bryce> displayconfig uses guidance for its backend, which only supports Xinerama.  I'm not sure if xrandr got added in at a higher level
[00:59] <ScottK> KDE4 has some kind of xrandr tool, but not AFAIK kde3.
[00:59] <bryce> ScottK: ah, ok.  for G/Ubuntu we're deprecating our displayconfig-gtk in favor of gnome's Screen Resolution tool, which is xrandr-based.
[01:00] <ScottK> Right, so if you can help me describe the displayconfig situation, that's what I need.
[01:00] <ScottK> I know little about X.  I mostly made displayconfig and the back end crash less.
[01:01] <ScottK> Is there a subset of users that Xinerama will continue to work for?
[01:01] <bryce> ScottK: ok, so the current situation for you is that for most video drivers, dual screen can be set up only via the 'xrandr' command line tool and/or manual xorg.conf settings
[01:01] <ScottK> OK.
[01:02] <bryce> ScottK: the Screen Resolution tool we're adding for Ubuntu relies on gnome-settings-daemon to do the heavy work, which kubuntu would not be using, so that tool would not be of use to kubuntu users
[01:02] <ScottK> Right.
[01:03] <bryce> (something I'm fairly bummed about, but since this was RedHat's work for the most part, I didn't really have much influence on that)
[01:03] <ScottK> I was hoping to be able to say something like, If you have blank types of video then Xinerama will still work and you can use Display and Monitor (displayconfig) otherwise you have to do ...
[01:04] <ScottK> KDE4 has at least a basic xrandr tool, but I haven't used it.
[01:04] <bryce> the binary drivers (-nvidia and -fglrx) may still support Xinerama.
[01:05] <bryce> but they have their own multi-screen setup tools, so it would be better to encourage users to use those, than displayconfig anyway
[01:05] <ScottK> OK
[01:06] <bryce> the -nv driver for older model cards still support Xinerama.
[01:06] <ScottK> OK.
[01:08] <bryce> ScottK: ATI users can go back to Xinerama by installing the old 6.6.3 version of -ati
[01:08] <ScottK> OK.
[01:08]  * ScottK starts to write something up.
[01:10] <ScottK> bryce: BTW, I'd have been totally screwed during this development cycle by fixing displayconfig if not for the xfix option.  Thanks very much for that.
[01:11] <bryce> ScottK: for Intel, the legacy -i810 driver supports Xinerama.
[01:11] <bryce> sure
[01:32] <ScottK> bryce: What's the official end user type name for the xfix option?
[01:32] <bryce> ogasawara: bug #216927 also sounds like it may be a kernel bug (iwl3945)
[01:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 216927 in ubuntu "mouse & keyboard became suddenly completely unresponsive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216927
[01:33] <bryce> ScottK, what was the xfix option again?
[01:33] <ScottK> That's the one where you reboot to the 'restore' option and you get the chance to have the system try to fix your broken X automagically
[01:34] <bryce> oh, bulletproof-x?
[01:34] <ScottK> Sounds reasonable.
[01:34] <bryce> heh, hadn't heard it described as xfix before
[01:34] <ScottK> That's what it calls itself in the boot menu.
[01:35]  * calc wants kernel modesetting X, so we can get prettier bootup :)
[01:36] <calc> plus BSOD feature, whee ;-)
[01:36] <TheMuso> calc: hehe
[01:37] <calc> well it will be nice to be able to display the error on the screen instead of just freezing
[01:37] <calc> but it just sounds very funny :)
[01:37] <ScottK2> bryce: Comments on http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/64162/ please
[01:37]  * calc bbl, dinner
[01:37] <bryce> yeah what fedora put out is really more of a proof of concept - it's not even turned on by default.  So I think it has a long way to go before it's useful.  Still cool to see out in the wild though.
[01:40] <bryce> ScottK, why don't you leave out the "Bullet Proof X" name from that.  That was always just a code name.  If it's called "xfix" in the boot menu, that's a better name for it
[01:40] <ScottK2> OK.  It does sound cool though.
[01:40] <bryce> also I'm suspicious that xfix may be something completely different from BPX
[01:40] <ScottK2> Up to you.
[01:40] <ScottK2> OK.
[01:40] <bryce> yeah leave it out...
[01:40] <ScottK2> I'll reboot my other laptop to make sure I have it right.
[01:44] <ScottK2> Three cheers for the forced fsck.  It'll be a while.
[01:44] <ScottK2> bryce: Any other comments?
[01:45] <bryce> ScottK: just one...  I don't know your feelings on linking to 3rd party websites, but thinkwiki has the best Xrandr 1.2 config guide I've found so far
[01:45] <bryce> http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Xorg_RandR_1.2
[01:45] <bryce> I have on my todo list to set up a Ubuntu guide like that... but haven't done it
[01:45] <ScottK2> I'm all for good information.
[01:46] <bryce> Debian has http://wiki.debian.org/XStrikeForce/HowToRandR12 which is good too.
[01:46] <bryce> but the thinkwiki site addresses Ubuntu more specifically
[01:46] <ScottK2> It doesn't seem updated for Hardy though.
[01:47] <pwnguin> its kinda thinkpad specific too
[01:53] <bryce> hrm
[01:53] <ScottK2> bryce: What would you think about making a stub wiki page on w.u.c that just links to those two for now.  I'll link to that and you can fill it out over time.
[01:53] <bryce> alright, well I guess this is as good an opportunity as any to get off my duff and get that guide together.
[01:53] <ScottK2> Even better.
[01:53] <bryce> ScottK2, I think that is a stellar idea, I'll get on it now.
[01:53] <bryce> well, after coffee.  brb
[01:53] <ScottK2> OK.  I need to run out for about an hour.  I'll be back later.
[01:57] <ScottK2> Slight update http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/64169/
[02:11] <bryce> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config
[02:11] <bryce> (WIP obviously)
[02:45] <ScottK2> Great.
[02:45]  * ScottK2 is back.
[03:02] <bardyr> kudos to the people who refreshed the new http://start.ubuntu.com/8.04/ it looks really nice
[03:10] <alex-weej> asac: still up?
[03:11] <alex-weej> crimsun: or you :)
[03:11] <jdong> get a room you guys!
[03:12] <crimsun> alex-weej: yes
[03:12] <alex-weej> crimsun: did you know flash seems to be working fine with the pulse ALSA plug /without/ libflashsupport?
[03:13] <alex-weej> that is one less reason not to use PA as the default ALSA output
[03:13] <crimsun> alex-weej: it works on my config, yes.  Then again, FF didn't 'splode with libflashsupport and older Flash, either, here.
[03:13] <alex-weej> it did for me
[03:13] <alex-weej> npviewer.bin would frequently segfault
[03:14] <crimsun> the only thing we can really do at this stage is grow a larger sampling pool.
[03:14] <alex-weej> i don't think many of our users are using pulse as the default output without libflashsupport
[03:15] <alex-weej> you either need the PCM defs in /etc/asound.conf or your own user conf via asoundconf set-pulse or whatever
[03:16] <crimsun> yeah, that's why I added it.
[03:16] <crimsun> AFAIK, Ubuntu Education Edition has been using it.
[03:18] <alex-weej> how hard do you think it would be to add a hook in the PA package that added a line to /etc/asound.conf that sourced its default PCM config jazz?
[03:18] <alex-weej> messing with configs is pretty hairy i guess
[03:19] <crimsun> not hard, but it is not recommended and would make several people's neckhair crawl
[03:27] <alex-weej> crimsun: are you a core dev?
[03:27] <crimsun> yes.
[03:28] <alex-weej> ok, that's good to know
[03:28] <alex-weej> i commented on 192888 (the flash crash bug)
[03:28] <alex-weej> basically suggesting we test and then mark libflashsupport as conflicting with the newer flashplugin
[03:40] <crimsun> alex-weej: breaks for at least one significant test case as outlined in the bug report.
[03:40] <alex-weej> oh? which?
[03:41] <crimsun> alex-weej: essentially, current hardy PA's default.pa (exclusive hw:X), using pcm pulse plug in an asoundrc, hotplugging another audio device, testing Flash in FF3.0b5
[03:42] <alex-weej> crimsun: that's not the Fx bug though
[03:42] <alex-weej> wait
[03:42] <alex-weej> maybe it is, sorry
[03:42] <alex-weej> hotplug another audio device and... Fx crashes?
[03:42] <crimsun> no, inaudible audio
[03:43] <alex-weej> well that's a different bug right?
[03:43] <crimsun> yes
[03:43] <crimsun> FF doesn't crash, but Flash audio isn't audible
[03:43] <crimsun> which is, coincidentially, precisely what the current situation is.
[03:43] <alex-weej> so let me get this straight
[03:43] <alex-weej> Flash is using PA
[03:44] <alex-weej> as in, you can see the audio levels in the volume meter and control it with pavucontrol
[03:44] <alex-weej> you hotplug an ALSA device
[03:44] <alex-weej> and suddenly the audio goes silent?
[03:44] <crimsun> no, it fails for all audio devices controlled by PA
[03:44] <crimsun> fails->inaudible
[03:44] <alex-weej> only when flash is running?
[03:44] <crimsun> only Flash is inaudible
[03:45] <alex-weej> so that's a pretty small bug in comparison, right?
[03:45] <crimsun> it is irrevelant whether other PA clients are running - they continue to be audible
[03:45] <crimsun> well, hardy will ship with Flash nondeterministically inaudible
[03:46] <alex-weej> when you hotplug a DEVICE?
[03:46] <crimsun> if libflashsupport is not installed but the pulse pcm plug is used, Flash will be inaudible period.
[03:46] <crimsun> yes, regardless whether a device is hot(un)plugged
[03:47] <alex-weej> crimsun: i don't think that's true -- at least i have pulse PCM here and no libflashsupport and it works fine with no npviewer crashes
[03:47] <crimsun> alex-weej: I'm on ia32.  No nspluginwrapper.
[03:48] <alex-weej> i'm still not really sure what you mean here -- is Adobe Flash actually picking up on ALSA device hotplugging and doing something it shouldn't?
[03:48] <alex-weej> and i'd say the chances of someone having music paused but wanting to listen to youtube are more likely than people hotplugging devices
[03:48] <crimsun> no, the pcm pulse alsa-lib plugin fails on ia32 for Flash.
[03:49] <alex-weej> why did you talk about hotplugging? or was that something else?
[03:50] <crimsun> no, it's all related.
[03:50] <crimsun> the `pulseaudio -vv' output is there in my comment.
[03:50] <alex-weej> i guess it's late, sorry i just don't understand
[03:50] <alex-weej> forgetting hotplugging
[03:51] <alex-weej> you're saying that setting up the default PCM as pulse
[03:51] <alex-weej> and trying to use flash without libflashsupport
[03:51] <alex-weej> fails?
[03:51] <crimsun> yes.
[03:51] <gnomefreak> flash 124 doesnt need to depend on libflashsupport as i understand it
[03:51] <alex-weej> gnomefreak: it doesn't anymore
[03:51] <alex-weej> the problem is it doesn't CONFLICT
[03:51] <crimsun> gnomefreak: it fails horribly on ia32.
[03:51] <alex-weej> so many people still have it installed
[03:51] <alex-weej> crimsun: what is your ALSA config?
[03:51] <gnomefreak> crimsun: did you try moving the libflashsupport.so?
[03:51] <gnomefreak> see if it helps
[03:51] <crimsun> gnomefreak: I have no libflashsupport.so.
[03:52] <gnomefreak> thats not good
[03:52] <alex-weej> gnomefreak: what arch you on?
[03:52] <gnomefreak> 686
[03:52] <crimsun> guys, I tested this on ia32 before I started all the dmix & dsnoop fun
[03:52] <alex-weej> and yours works without libflashsupport?
[03:52] <alex-weej> gnomefreak: and you're using pulse as your default ALSA output?
[03:52] <gnomefreak> alex-weej: should i just got home from 3 months of being away
[03:53] <alex-weej> i see
[03:53] <gnomefreak> alex-weej: im working on a few things atm and will test
[03:53] <crimsun> believe me, I really don't like the idea of using dmix instead of hw:X, but it is the only audible solution I've found on ia32.
[03:53] <alex-weej> gnomefreak: yeah, try removing libflashsupport and running asoundconf set-pulseaudio
[03:53] <alex-weej> then restart your browser and go youtubing
[03:54] <gnomefreak> 'testing with beta5?
[03:54] <crimsun> alex-weej: (http://pastebin.com/d17a12c34 is my test config)
[03:54] <alex-weej> make sure flashplugin-nonfree is uptodaye
[03:55] <alex-weej> crimsun: does that pulseaudio log repeat over-and-over?
[03:55] <crimsun> alex-weej: yes.
[03:55] <alex-weej> that USED to be what happened for me
[03:55] <gnomefreak> i get sound but its really low
[03:55] <alex-weej> hm what am i doing, i have an i386 PC sat next to me...
[03:55] <alex-weej> low or slow?
[03:56] <gnomefreak> low
[03:56] <gnomefreak> not loud
[03:56] <alex-weej> check your PA volumes
[03:56] <alex-weej> pavucontrol :)
[03:56] <alex-weej> can you see Adobe Flash listed as a client?
[03:56] <gnomefreak> might help if it was installed :)
[03:56] <alex-weej> crimsun: you have the same config as me, FWIW. do you have one in /etc/asound.conf ?
[03:57] <alex-weej> gnomefreak: Adobe Flash is what we're trying to test here...
[03:57] <gnomefreak> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVky7hwuebU  plays
[03:57] <crimsun> alex-weej: no, and ~/.asoundrc takes precedence anyhow.
[03:57] <alex-weej> crimsun: right, but i was wondering if any other PCM's were defined that Flash may be screwing with.
[03:57] <gnomefreak> alex-weej: pavucontrol isnt installed by default
[03:57] <crimsun> alex-weej: no, there aren't any additional custom ones.
[03:57] <alex-weej> gnomefreak: oh right :P
[03:58] <alex-weej> gnomefreak: do what you have to do then :)
[03:58] <gnomefreak> i am
[03:58] <gnomefreak> sudo :(
[03:58] <gnomefreak> ok no thats not it
[03:59] <gnomefreak> whats wrong with pavucontrol
[03:59] <crimsun> gnomefreak: what's the issue?
[03:59] <gnomefreak> gnomefreak@Hardy:~$ pavucontrol
[03:59] <gnomefreak> E: authkey.c: Failed to open cookie file '/home/gnomefreak/.pulse-cookie': Permission denied
[03:59] <gnomefreak> sudo doesnt let it stay open either
[03:59] <crimsun> blah, that's a separate PA bug.
[03:59] <gnomefreak> it gives error
[03:59] <alex-weej> don't run it as sudo
[03:59] <gnomefreak> cant look in it
[03:59] <alex-weej> are you running pulseaudio as root?
[03:59] <crimsun> pkill pulseaudio, rm ~/.pulse*
[03:59] <gnomefreak> no
[04:00] <crimsun> sorry, rm -fr ~/.pulse*
[04:00] <gnomefreak> no good together
[04:00] <alex-weej> wait
[04:01] <alex-weej> stat ~/.pulse-cookie
[04:01] <alex-weej> who owns?
[04:02] <gnomefreak> looks like root
[04:02] <alex-weej> so something is running PA as root...
[04:02] <alex-weej> just do a sudo killall pulseaudio
[04:02] <alex-weej> wait
[04:02] <alex-weej> sudo pulseaudio -k
[04:03] <gnomefreak> not likely but i think i have it fixed atm
[04:03] <crimsun> he'll have to nuke ~/.pulse*, too.
[04:03] <alex-weej> crimsun: pulseaudio shutdown should nuke it no?
[04:03] <gnomefreak> no
[04:03] <gnomefreak> well not after fixing it :(
[04:03] <alex-weej> hm, wonder how that happened
[04:03] <alex-weej> yeah just sudo rm .pulse* :P
[04:04] <gnomefreak> did
[04:05] <gnomefreak> ok lets try again
[04:07] <gnomefreak> asac changed dirs for profiles it seems
[04:10] <gnomefreak> i dont have libflashsupport.so at all
[04:10] <gnomefreak> and it seems to work fine here
[04:11] <gnomefreak> PA is a bit on the cranky side atm but flash plays
[04:11] <crimsun> Flash "plays" fine here.  It's just inaudible due to the pulse pcm plugin in libasound2-plugins choking
[04:12] <gnomefreak> plays as in plays sounds and vid
[04:12] <gnomefreak> crimsun: you are not the only one that i have heard this about but i wrote it off as he didnt update flash
[04:12] <crimsun> gnomefreak: with the default pcm set to pulse, correct?
[04:13] <alex-weej> gnomefreak: is it *definitely* playing through pulse -- you can see the Flash channel in pavucontrol right?
[04:13] <gnomefreak> crimsun: cant find where to set it outside of the command asoundconf set-pulseaudio
[04:13] <crimsun> gnomefreak: that's the precise command you need to use
[04:13] <gnomefreak> alex-weej: pavucontrol gets no connection
[04:13] <alex-weej> it sounds like you're running pulse as root again...
[04:14] <gnomefreak> alex-weej: nope
[04:14] <alex-weej> something is wrong here
[04:14] <crimsun> in my case, it attempts the connection, which connects and abruptly dies
[04:14] <gnomefreak> connection failed: connection refused
[04:14] <alex-weej> crimsun: pavucontrol!?
[04:14] <alex-weej> or flash->alsa->pulse?
[04:15] <gnomefreak> pavucontrol gives me the above error
[04:15] <alex-weej> crimsun: if you run pavucontrol while flash is playing
[04:15] <alex-weej> do you see the volume control for Adobe Flash appear and disappear all the time?
[04:15] <gnomefreak> here doesnt matter if flash is playing or not
[04:15] <crimsun> alex-weej: the stream registers as a pulse client and dies, as shown in the `pulseaudio -vv' log.  In pavucontrol, the client "flashes".
[04:15] <crimsun> yes, it "appears and disappears"
[04:15] <alex-weej> crimsun: yeah that's exactly what i used to get on my i386
[04:16] <alex-weej> i will check it out in the morning
[04:16] <gnomefreak> why is it looking for root when it wasnt ran as root
[04:16] <alex-weej> so anyway, aside gnomefreak's pa oddness over authz, that's at least one positive... i say we sit it out and see how many other responses we get
[04:16] <alex-weej> including my own :)
[04:16] <gnomefreak> gnomefreak@Hardy:~$ pulseaudio -vv
[04:16] <gnomefreak> I: main.c: Called SUID root and real-time/high-priority scheduling was requested in the configuration. However, we lack the necessary priviliges:
[04:17] <crimsun> gnomefreak: that's a red herring.
[04:17] <gnomefreak> ah ok
[04:17] <alex-weej> i have to sleep guys
[04:17] <alex-weej> thanks, byee!
[04:17] <crimsun> bye
[04:18] <TheMuso> all of this convinces me more that we shouldn't have gone pulse for an LTS.
[04:19] <crimsun> well, it has been pretty clear to me that removing pulse is not viable, but we shouldn't neuter it, either.
[04:19] <TheMuso> Yeah.
[04:20]  * gnomefreak confused with the output after running the asoundconf set-pulseaudio command pulseaudio -vv is showing alot of alsa lines 
[04:20] <crimsun> gnomefreak: it should be, given you're using the default hardy pulseaudio
[04:20] <crimsun> -vv is quite verbose
[04:20] <gnomefreak> noticed
[04:22] <gnomefreak> crimsun: are you pnly playing the flash or are you running say totem in background?
[04:22] <crimsun> gnomefreak: I've tried both cases.
[04:22]  * gnomefreak goes to find bug i wrote off
[04:22] <crimsun> same result in both, since other pulse clients are irrelevant
[05:10] <crimsun> ugh, so I think I've got an alsa-plugins fix, but I'm getting some wack skew eerily reminiscent of the old plugins issue.
[05:55] <dholbach> good morning
[05:57] <jsgotangco> hi
[05:59]  * slangasek waves
[06:02] <dholbach> hi jsgotangco, hey slangasek
[06:03] <nxvl> dholbach: gutten tag!
[06:03] <dholbach> hi nxvl: Guten Tag! :)
[06:04] <nxvl> heh, here it is gutten nacht
[06:04] <nxvl> it's 00:04
[06:04] <dholbach> hehe :)
[06:04] <dholbach> Gute Nacht :)
[06:14] <calc> interesting stat trend at w3schools, their visitors will be majority firefox users by end of next year
[06:14] <calc> if the percentage users of IE continue to drop at roughly the same rate as the past few years
[06:19] <shadowxp> hmm curiously
[06:19] <shadowxp> where is that stat located at w3c?
[06:20] <calc> http://w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
[06:21] <calc> should be ~ 42% next jan and ~ 47% by jan 2010 if the trend continues
[06:21] <calc> which would put IE below 47%
[06:22] <calc> er all the versions of IE combined that is
[06:22] <calc> no wonder microsoft is playing so nice with standards for IE8
[06:24] <shadowxp> lol
[06:25] <shadowxp> yeah,
[06:25] <shadowxp> IE8 is definately better
[06:25] <shadowxp> at standards then IE7
[06:25] <calc> yea
[06:25] <calc> they are going to have to start catching up with standards as firefox is standards compliant and will be the defacto standard browser soon
[06:26] <calc> well mostly compliant
[06:26] <shadowxp> yeah, FF3 is definately a real threat
[06:26] <shadowxp> to IE
[06:26] <shadowxp> we'll see if M$ actually continues following the standards tho
[06:27] <crimsun> TheMuso: I've cleaned up and pushed the correct fix into alsa-plugins's bzr, but I'm unable to test ATM  (lack of sleep)
[06:28] <crimsun> ->Z
[06:28] <TheMuso> crimsun: No problem, I'll have a look a bit later.
[07:04] <TheMuso> Spare a thought for cjwatson.
[07:04] <TheMuso> woops wrong channel
[07:13] <Silicium> how look for the stable release
[07:14] <Silicium> if i want install a new machine in the next 5h, should i wait for the final?
[07:19] <cjwatson> use the release candidate and upgrade
[07:44] <gnomefreak> crimsun: are you still awake?
[07:46] <gnomefreak> crimsun: when you get up it seems this PA+flash bug started in Gutsy from what i gathering from someone suffering from it
[07:47] <calc> is there a reason that ff can't sort bookmarks?
[07:48] <gnomefreak> calc: no not yet but a bug or 3 on it atm
[07:48] <gnomefreak> i havent seen it happen yet
[07:49] <calc> gnomefreak: oh ok
[07:49] <calc> yea it won't let me sort either :\
[07:49] <gnomefreak> calc: if i get done and sleep ill talk to asa_c or someone about it since ive seen that bug in my email everyday
[07:49] <calc> there are lots of nice organize bookmark sorting methods but it doesn't keep it that way when you quit the organize screen
[07:50] <calc> gnomefreak: ok
[07:50] <gnomefreak> xalff3 i take it?
[07:50] <gnomefreak> ack
[07:50] <calc> and the right click sort is greyed out
[07:50] <gnomefreak> calc: ff3 i take it?
[07:50] <calc> yea, 8.04 current
[07:51] <gnomefreak> yeah its  new to beta5 afair
[07:52] <calc> ok
[07:52] <gnomefreak> this cant be good
[08:17] <pitti> Good morning
[08:19] <calc> whee akademy and guadec combined :)
[08:29] <asac> gnomefreak: welcome back!!!
[08:32] <Flawless> Does anybody here have experience with python-central + dh_pycentral ?
[08:32] <Flawless> I'm trying to create a python package, which works well for $PYSHARED/mypackage _except_  for $PYSHARED/mypackage/subfolders
[08:33] <Flawless> When I install my package, only files directly into the mypackage dir in the pycentral-dir will be available in /usr/lib/python2.x/site-packages/mypackage
[08:33] <Flawless> I can't figure out why
[08:36] <Flawless> Do I really need to manually make my package install files in /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/foo/ AND /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/foo/ ?
[08:37] <Flawless> I hope this is the right channel? :)
[08:38] <Fujitsu> Flawless: #ubuntu-motu is better, and we have a release happening within hours. Maybe wait a few days.
[08:38] <Flawless> Oh, my bad :)
[08:38] <Flawless> All the best with 8.04!
[08:40] <Amaranth> We needs mod_evasive :)
[08:49] <jdub> rock on, ubunteros :-)
[08:50] <Fujitsu> Hey jdub.
[08:52] <dholbach> hi jdub
[08:53] <dholbach> I'm still used to type  jd<tab>   - but there's 3 jd* now :)
[08:53]  * dholbach hugs jdub
[08:57] <fabbione> jdub: !!!!!!'
[08:57] <MacSlow> hey jdub
[08:57] <MacSlow> jdub, how's down-uder?
[09:03] <Treenaks> MacSlow: quiet, apparently :P
[09:07] <jdub> MacSlow: rockin'
[09:07] <jdub> MacSlow: the future is awesome. :-)
[09:08] <MacSlow> jdub, it should be... glad to hear :)
[09:32] <seb128_> bah, f-spot lacks a good maintainer upstream apparently
[09:33] <mpt> seb128_, gratuitous WONTFIXes?
[09:33] <seb128_> mpt: no,  but the things lacks a lot of polish, there is over 100 strings which are not in the translation template
[09:34] <seb128_> it floods stdout when there is no errors (I've distro patched to workaround a bit the issue)
[09:34] <seb128_> it was printing things like "open uri = URI" for every photos in your collection
[09:34] <Nailor> debug prints ftw.
[09:35] <mpt> I reported a few bugs and they were all marked WONTFIX because I got the version number wrong by mistake
[09:35] <seb128_> debug prints should be conditional to some debug flag to turn in the source or using a command line option
[09:35] <seb128_> mpt: utch
[09:35] <Mithrandir> release builds with -DDEBUG.. mmm. :-P
[09:35] <Nailor> seb128_: Yup, that's the policy normally.
[09:36] <seb128_> Mithrandir: no, the code just has lot of random System.Console.WriteLine calls
[09:36] <seb128_> mpt: that's a shame because otherwise the application itself is nice
[09:36] <Nailor> seb128_: Seems like the author of that code's been debugging something and not using the debugging mechanism offered by the language.
[09:37] <Nailor> And, after the problem has been fixed, the stuff is left there
[09:37] <seb128_> $ grep Console.WriteLine * -r | wc -l
[09:37] <seb128_> 686
[09:37] <seb128_> it has been debugging a lot then
[09:37] <slomo_> heh
[09:38] <Nailor> Uh. :)
[09:38] <slomo_> seb128_: i guess upstream doesn't believe that anybody is still running applications from a terminal ;)
[09:40] <seb128_> and they don't think anybody is using an another locale than english
[09:41] <mpt> seb128_, nice in comparison with gthumb, perhaps, but compared with the proprietary equivalents it's pretty low-grade
[09:42] <seb128_> mpt: right
[10:07] <james_w> mvo: hi. Upgrades from Xubuntu dapper do not work if universe is not enabled, is this known.
[10:07] <mvo> james_w: no, its not known - we should release note it at this point, I can prepare a fix for -proposed
[10:07] <james_w> mvo: also, I can't get the update-manager gui to offer me a hardy upgrade, though do-release-upgrade works
[10:08] <james_w> is that related?
[10:11] <mvo> james_w: that is with dapper? and the lastest update-manager from dapper-updates?
[10:11] <james_w> mvo: yes and yes
[10:12] <james_w> 0.56~dapper5
[10:12] <mvo> james_w: that is update-manager-core, I beliefe what is the version of update-manager?
[10:13] <james_w> 0.42.2ubuntu22
[10:13] <mvo> james_w: please update that to 22.2 (from dapper-updates)
[10:13] <james_w> I tried, but it wasn't offered
[10:14] <james_w> let me try again.
[10:20] <heno> james_w: I tried an xubuntu dapper->hardy upgrade just now and was offered 8.04 by 'sudo update-manager -d'
[10:20] <james_w> heno: ah, ok, thanks. It looks like an error on my part.
[10:21] <heno> I rebooted after updating xubuntu dapper, FWIW
[10:21] <heno> it does fail on calculating the upgrade though, citing a missing *-desktop package, though xubuntu-desktop is installed
[10:22] <heno> I'll report that separately
[10:22] <mvo> heno: have you enabled universe ?
[10:22] <stgraber> heno: you need universe
[10:22]  * heno tries that
[10:23] <mvo> I can prepare a fix for hardy-proposed now, but it will take a bit until its is available (because hardy-proposed is not open yet)
[10:24] <mvo> if there is a bugnumber I will comment on it (we probably need to talk to the xubuntu devs as well if we just should unconditionally enable universe for people with xubuntu-desktop installed)
[10:25] <mvo> I wouldn't want to add new strings, but then enabling universe without confirmation seems to be not ok too :/
[10:26] <stgraber> mvo: xubuntu is now in universe, so the user will have to turn it on for upgrade anyway
[10:26] <heno> seems to work now
[10:26] <stgraber> I don't see why you would need a confirmation as turning it on is the only way you can upgrade
[10:29] <mvo> my only concern with that is, that because universe has a different level of (security) support, they may not want to upgrade
[10:30] <mvo> but yeah, most of the ciriticla stuff for security upgrade is in main anyway
[10:30] <mvo> so its not a big issue
[10:32] <slangasek> and they still have to click 'check' to get a new version, so
[10:37] <ogra> OMG !
[10:37] <slangasek> ?
[10:38]  * ogra just accidentially typed dpkg-reconfigure -a instead of dpkg --configure -a in his VM terminal
[10:38] <slangasek> sweet
[10:38] <slangasek> unrelated to the release then ;)
[10:38] <ogra> yeah, sorry :)
[10:39] <RAOF> How many questions will it ask do you reackon, to the nearest hundred? :)
[10:42] <ogra> RAOF, i just killed the VM now but i bet hundrets
[10:45] <norsetto> I knew I was going to screw this up once, anyway I can remove an upload from the pending queue? It was meant for my ppa
[10:46] <pitti> norsetto: I can do it (but only because we are frozen; normally it goes straight through)
[10:46] <norsetto> pitti: yes thanks, ppas are getting me crazy
[10:46] <pitti> norsetto: xchat-xsys, I assume; rejected
[10:46] <norsetto> pitti: thanks, appreciate it
[10:47] <DktrKranz2> norsetto: rename "ubuntu" with "where-uploads-matter" in your dput.cf ;)
[10:47] <norsetto> DktrKranz2: I'd rather remove the whole ppa actually :-)
[10:48]  * pitti has a wrapper for dput which would select the right queue autoamtically based on the target (-security -> security.upload.ubuntu.com, etc.)
[10:49] <norsetto> pitti: care to share? I use my ppa seldomly, so I tend to use my "automatic control" which default to ubuntu ...
[10:49] <pitti> norsetto: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/uup
[10:49] <DktrKranz2> It would be interesting have hardy-ppa as default target for PPA packages, so we won't break stuff
[10:49] <norsetto> pitti: fantastic, thank you again
[10:49] <pitti> norsetto: it also scp's the package to somewhere else first (don't ask), you don't want that; but it might give you some ideas
[10:51] <norsetto> pitti: yes, looks like it can be easily modified to upload ~ppa packages to the ppa
[10:51] <pitti> norsetto: for you, a simple dpkg-parsechangelog |grep ^Version is probably enough for you
[10:52] <pitti> norsetto: or, looking at the .changes)
[10:52] <norsetto> pitti: yes, the first one looks simpler
[10:53] <pitti> well, but you need to be in the source tree for that
[10:53] <pitti> I guess you want to have a script which works on a .changes, not on a source tree
[10:53] <norsetto> pitti: good point
[10:58] <mvo> anyone here with a kubuntu dapper VM?
[11:06] <pitti> slomo_, seb128: what should we do about the tomboy in gutsy-proposed which is sitting there for half a year? what's the testing situation on that?
[11:06] <pitti> slomo_, seb128: the current one doesn't have the gutsy-security fix applied, so it either needs to be reuploaded, or we remove it again
[11:22] <emgent> pitti: thanks for gosa :)
[11:22] <pitti> you're welcome
[11:24] <YokoZar> Oooh it looks like the torrents are up on the website for the DVD and server release...
[11:26] <emgent> yep
[11:28] <davmor2> mvo: what's up dude
[11:29] <mvo> davmor2: all good :)
[11:30] <davmor2> mvo: why the shout about kubuntu dapper?
[11:32] <mvo> davmor2: I wanted to check dapper->hardy upgrade procedures with it, but I create a kubunte chroot now
[11:33] <davmor2> okay np the only way I could get it work on hw was by installing the core and going with do-release-update have you got a fix for that now?
[11:54] <tjaalton> hmm, why does cupsd want to have write-access to /etc/krb5.conf?
[11:56] <pitti> tjaalton: that sounds bad indeed, and I don't think I allowed that in the AppArmor profile?
[11:57] <tjaalton> pitti: it's not allowed, but I get an audit warning
[12:02] <pitti> tjaalton: does it break things? or is it just the cosmetical error?
[12:02] <tjaalton> pitti: seems to be cosmetic
[12:03] <tjaalton> at least I can print :)
[12:03] <pitti> good
[12:24] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: is there a good news article for Xubuntu 8.04 that we can link to from the main announcement?
[12:25]  * cody-somerville is trying to mirror it on the website but wiki is super slow.
[12:25] <cody-somerville> The wiki keeps timing out.
[12:26] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: intended URL?
[12:27] <cody-somerville> http://xubuntu.org/news/hardy/release ?
[12:27] <cjwatson> slangasek: ^--
[12:27] <slangasek> and what kind of eta might we have for that?
[12:28] <davmor2> slangasek: 8.10
[12:29] <slangasek> cody-somerville: put another way - if you haven't been able to extract it from the wiki by the time the announcement mail goes out, should I include that link anyway or fall back to the homepage?
[12:30] <cody-somerville> Okay, I got it. Please link to that.
[12:30] <slangasek> ack, thanks
[12:31] <_MMA_> slangasek: If you will be including Studio, please also just link to our homepage.
[12:31] <slangasek> _MMA_: ack, will do, thanks
[12:31] <_MMA_> np
[12:39] <aantn> are there plans to include a widgets framework in ibex?
[12:40] <aantn> e.g. screenlets, gdesklets, universal applets
[12:41] <Keybuk> aantn: no plans, no
[12:42] <aantn> Keybuk: ok
[12:42] <aantn> I thought I saw a mailing list thread about it a while back
[12:44] <aantn> Would that decision change if one of the widget frameworks became stable
[12:45] <Keybuk> it's not so much of a decision, as a lack of one
[12:45] <aantn> I see
[12:45]  * aantn goes back to coding
[12:45] <Keybuk> personally, I don't see the point of widgets
[12:45] <Keybuk> they're either under everything so annoying to find
[12:45] <Keybuk> or on top of everything so in your way
[12:46] <aantn> Keybuk: not always
[12:46] <Keybuk> and seem to just duplicate functionality available elsewhere
[12:46] <Keybuk> "ooh, a *pretty* desktop calculator"
[12:46] <aantn> os x's dashboard feature is quite nice
[12:46] <aantn> the goal of universal applets is quite different
[12:47] <Keybuk> so OS X by default gives me:
[12:47] <aantn> its an attempt to get rid of duplicate functionality
[12:47] <Keybuk> a calculator (available in the utilities list)
[12:47] <Keybuk> a clock, already visible on the screen in the top-right
[12:47] <Keybuk> the date, already visible on the screen in the top-right
[12:47] <aantn> Keybuk: do you think panel applets have a point?
[12:47] <Keybuk> a calendar, obtainable by clicking the date in the top-right
[12:47] <Keybuk> and the weather
[12:48] <Keybuk> so to me, that duplicates functionality ;)
[12:48] <aantn> true, but that doesn't apply to universal applets
[12:48] <seb128> what are universal applets?
[12:48] <aantn> and most of the three thousand widgets available on apple's website don't just copy other functionality
[12:49] <Keybuk> most of them don't provide _any_ functionality ;)
[12:49] <aantn> widgets simplify the creation of mini programs
[12:49] <mpt> I think the point of widgets is having half a dozen that you use frequently
[12:49] <mpt> You could set up a hotkey for each of them
[12:49] <mpt> but collecting them together, you can have a single hotkey for them all
[12:50] <aantn> seb128: universal applet's goal is to get rid of the code duplication
[12:50] <seb128> aantn: we don't suggest having three thousands applets in the default installation, do you?
[12:50] <Keybuk> mpt: but wouldn't it be better to just have that hotkey open the app/tool that provides that functionality?
[12:50] <aantn> seb128: no
[12:50] <seb128> aantn: what feature would you like that is not there yet?
[12:50] <Keybuk> ie. F9 opens the calendar in the top-right
[12:50] <mpt> Keybuk, no, because then you need to remember half a dozen different hotkeys.
[12:50] <aantn> just the framework installed by default
[12:50] <Keybuk> mpt: you could have a hotkey open all of them? :)
[12:50] <seb128> aantn: there is no such framework
[12:50] <mpt> Keybuk, sure, and how are you going to close them all again?
[12:50] <aantn> most users don't know that they exist
[12:51] <Keybuk> and when do you ever need to simultaneously use a calculator and look at the weather? :)
[12:51] <aantn> seb128: ?
[12:51] <mpt> Keybuk, who's suggesting that?
[12:51] <Keybuk> mpt: that's OS X's default ;)
[12:51] <seb128> aantn: there is no "universe applets for GNOME framework"
[12:51] <aantn> seb128: universal applets' goal is to reduce duplication of code
[12:51] <aantn> seb128: actually...
[12:51] <mpt> Keybuk, no, that's your assumption of why they're grouped together
[12:51] <Keybuk> mpt: ?
[12:52] <seb128> aantn: no need of applets for that, you can write widgets and library
[12:52] <mpt> I'm suggesting a different possibility
[12:52] <Keybuk> mpt: you've confused me :)
[12:52] <aantn> development time is valuable
[12:52] <mpt> Keybuk, I'm suggesting that they're grouped not because you need to use them simultaneously, but because that saves you from having to remember multiple hotkeys, one for each utility.
[12:53] <Keybuk> mpt: but what makes those things so special?
[12:53] <seb128> aantn: right, but there is no for "applets", you can as well have a good toolkit, ie make gtk better
[12:53] <Keybuk> why is a calcuator so special that it shouldn't behave like any other desktop tool?
[12:53] <Keybuk> should look and act different
[12:53] <Keybuk> be opened differently
[12:53] <aantn> right now, devs are wasting time rewriting applets so that they can be displayed in different places on the screen
[12:53] <Keybuk> have different accessibility methods
[12:53] <Keybuk> etc.
[12:53] <mpt> Keybuk, only that you need to access it quickly and frequently
[12:53] <aantn> Keybuk: they shouldn't
[12:53] <aantn> that's exactly the point
[12:54] <seb128> aantn: you will not stop people to rewrite things for the sake of using their preferred language, learning, etc
[12:54] <aantn> there should be a framework to simplify the creation of miniprograms
[12:54] <Keybuk> mpt: but couldn't the hotkey just open the usual calculator?
[12:54] <aantn> seb128: that's different
[12:54] <seb128> aantn: use pygtk?
[12:54] <seb128> aantn: that allows to write quickly easy programs
[12:54]  * aantn gasps for air
[12:54] <aantn> give me a second
[12:54] <mpt> Keybuk, no, because that wouldn't also open the other utilities you use frequently
[12:54] <Keybuk> mpt: why not?
[12:54] <aantn> I'll explain
[12:55] <Keybuk> I could have a hot key open all the apps I use frequently
[12:55] <Keybuk> isn't that the same thing?
[12:55] <aantn> people want information to be instantly accessible
 Keybuk, sure, and how are you going to close them all again?
[12:55] <Keybuk> mpt: how do I close the widgets? :)
[12:55] <aantn> they also want to display it wherever they want
[12:55] <seb128> aantn: you need to describe what your interface looks like and what actions do, how you describe it is just a programming language
[12:55] <mpt> Keybuk, with the same key with which you opened them.
[12:55] <Keybuk> mpt: I'd close all the apps with the same key with which I opened them
[12:55] <Keybuk> :)
[12:56] <aantn> e.g. in the panel, in the dock, as a floating window
[12:56] <mpt> Keybuk, I bet you can't. Not without writing a shell script.
[12:56] <Keybuk> mpt: I bet I can with some minor patches to the WM and GTK+
[12:56] <Keybuk> which is a lot less effort than inventing an entirely new class of applications
[12:56] <Keybuk> and an entirely new toolkit to write them in
[12:56] <mpt> Keybuk, well, congratulations for reinventing Dashboard then :-)
[12:56]  * ogra sighs about the sily bugs.lp.net ui ... who had the glorious idea to force my cursor in the text input field all the time *GGRRRRR*
[12:56] <Keybuk> mpt: but dashboard doesn't do that
[12:56] <Keybuk> dashboard opens a *different* calculator
[12:56] <aantn> it doesn't work to have them as standalone programs b/c then they can
[12:56] <Keybuk> and a *different* calendar
[12:56] <seb128> aantn: there is some gnome-panel applet which allow to embed applications I think
[12:56] <Keybuk> and a *different* clock
[12:57] <aantn> er.. can't
[12:57] <mpt> Again, I'm not disputing that it's silly to have an entirely separate platform with *different* applications
[12:57] <Keybuk> which is pretty much my entire objection to it
[12:57] <mpt> I'm considering only the UI
[12:57] <aantn> seb128: if you're talking about swallow then it's broken
[12:57] <aantn> and extremely hackish
[12:57] <Keybuk> (random fact, every time I want the Calculator, I open the Character Map ...
[12:57] <aantn> Keybuk: again, that's what universal applets is coming to solve
[12:57] <Keybuk>  and every time I want the Character Map, I open the Calculator)
[12:58] <mpt> The most convenient calculator I ever used was on the Amiga
[12:58] <Keybuk> aantn: the last commit to screenlets was "improved draw rectangle functions"
[12:58] <aantn> users should have the freedom to display the calculator wherever they want
[12:58] <Keybuk> aantn: this to me suggests you're attempting to write a new toolkit
[12:58] <aantn> Keybuk: that's not universal applets
[12:58] <mpt> I could type Amiga =, the Calculator popped into view, I typed my equation, pressed Enter, and the result was typed into whatever window I had been in at the time
[12:58] <aantn> Keybuk: I'm not
[12:58] <Keybuk> it was the "I'm feeling lucky" for it
[12:59] <seb128_> re
[12:59] <seb128_> dsl disconnected
[12:59] <aantn> luck is fickle
[12:59] <seb128_> aantn: there is some gnome-panel applet which allow to embed applications I think
[12:59] <seb128_> aantn: not true, you just need a way to embed widgets in the gnome-panel and what you call "dock" dynamically
[12:59] <Keybuk> aantn: it's your own repository! :D
[12:59] <aantn> seb128: if you're talking about swallow then it's broken
[12:59] <aantn> exactly!
[12:59] <seb128_> well, I didn't say this one is working correctly or right
[12:59] <aantn> Keybuk: correct
[12:59] <seb128_> but that's basically what you want
[13:00] <Keybuk> to me, we don't need any kind of framework here
[13:00] <aantn> developers should have the freedom applications in any language they want
[13:00] <Keybuk> just some thought into the UI of launching applications and tools
[13:00] <seb128_> anyway you don't want a desklet in your panel
[13:00] <aantn> and the applications should automagically show up anywhere the user wants
[13:00] <seb128_> because the panel is usually 24 pixels wide where the desklets can use the whole desktops
[13:01] <aantn> seb128_: if the user wants them on the panel then they should be on the panel
[13:01] <seb128_> aantn: you have the freedom to use any language you want
[13:01] <aantn> seb128_: correct
[13:01] <aantn> that's the whole concept behind universal applets
[13:01] <seb128_> aantn: then the user can use this broken applet which embed things on the panel ;-)
[13:01] <Keybuk> actually, a key to make the calculator show up under my mouse would be quite welcome ;)
[13:01] <seb128_> aantn: ? that's not a concept, you can use any language you want today
[13:02] <aantn> seb128_: and what if he wants to display it in epiphany's sidebar
[13:02] <Keybuk> aantn: err, he shouldn't? that's crackful
[13:02] <aantn> seb128_: in universal applets, I meant
[13:02] <seb128_> you just need a way to embed things wherever you want
[13:02] <seb128_> you want libbobobo back ;-)
[13:02] <aantn> Keybuk: again, that's what universal applets does
[13:02] <aantn> it's made up of two parts
[13:02] <seb128_> vapoware
[13:02] <aantn> seb128_: not anymore
[13:02] <Keybuk> aantn: why would you ever want to embed a calculator into epiphany?
[13:02] <Keybuk> that's silly
[13:02] <seb128_> nobody wants this universal applets thing
[13:03] <Keybuk> just because you _can_ doesn't mean you _should_
[13:03] <seb128_> no normal user
[13:03] <aantn> seb128_: you'd be surprised
[13:03] <Keybuk> what use case are you fulfilling here?
[13:03] <aantn> I'm coming to solve the *fact* that there are at least 5 different gmail applets
[13:03] <aantn> one for awn, one for screenlets, one for gnome-panel, etc.
[13:03] <seb128_> you will never solve that
[13:04] <seb128_> people will rewrite things just because they think they can do better
[13:04] <aantn> oh, and bigboard
[13:04] <seb128_> or don't like the way the current ones are done
[13:04] <aantn> seb128_: that's not why they've been rewritten
[13:04] <seb128_> or want to use an another programming language
[13:04] <seb128_> or an another toolkit
[13:04] <aantn> the awn terminal applet was rewritten just so that it could be displayed as a screenlet
[13:04] <aantn> it's laughable, but people are doing it
[13:04] <seb128_> good for them
[13:05] <aantn> seb128_: forks are nearly always bad
[13:05] <seb128_> not true
[13:05] <seb128_> those are not forks
[13:05] <seb128_> they are different ways to do things
[13:05] <seb128_> that encourage innovation, etc
[13:06] <aantn> seb128_: developers should be spending time adding on new features and not getting applets to show up in different places
[13:06] <aantn> seb128_: not at all
[13:06] <seb128_> well, those people choice to duplicate work
[13:06] <seb128_> if you take GNOME there is no real duplication
[13:06] <aantn> because no alternative exists
[13:06] <seb128_> they should better join a project and work on making things better
[13:06] <seb128_> I start thinking you are here to troll ;-)
[13:07] <aantn> seb128_: hardly
[13:07] <mpt> seb128_, lighten up :-)
[13:07] <aantn> however, I'm still unsure what your argument is
[13:07] <seb128_> I've no argument
[13:07] <aantn> the fact is that developers are wasting time forking
[13:07] <seb128_> I just think your universe applet thing is a vapoware
[13:07] <seb128_> they don't need to
[13:08] <seb128_> they can contribute to existant project
[13:08] <aantn> any solution to that problem is good, especially if it makes the users happy
[13:08] <seb128_> they decide to do so
[13:08] <aantn> they don't contribute to existing projects because the users want the applet to be displayed elsewhere
[13:09] <seb128_> and?
[13:09] <aantn> you can bring back the calculator example
[13:09] <seb128_> why can't they join a project and help solving this issue
[13:09] <seb128_> rather than reinventing everything
[13:09] <aantn> seb128_: because applet devs are easier to find then applet framework devs
[13:10] <seb128_> what you tries to do is just embed widgets
[13:10] <aantn> wouldn't it be much easier if the calculator could just show up wherever the user wanted
[13:10] <aantn> there would be no need for a separate widget
[13:10] <seb128_> sure
[13:11] <seb128_> but why do you need to rewrite thing for that?
[13:11] <aantn> the application itself would function as a widget when necessary
[13:11] <seb128_> why don't you just use libbonobo to embed existant widgets?
[13:11] <seb128_> nautilus was doing that years ago
[13:11] <aantn> seb128_: because I think it can be done in a simpler way
[13:11] <seb128_> eog was embeded for image viewing
[13:11] <aantn> and then they stopped because it was broken
[13:11] <seb128_> yeah, but why not fixing it?
[13:12] <seb128_> rather than reinvent a whole new concept
[13:12] <aantn> I thought that a fresh codebase would help
[13:12] <seb128_> and no, it was not broken
[13:12] <aantn> (and it did)
[13:12] <seb128_> they just decided that was not a good user experience
[13:12] <seb128_> a filemanager is there to manage files
[13:12] <seb128_> when viewing an image you want to open an image viewer
[13:13] <aantn> you can say the same thing about firefox extensions
[13:13] <seb128_> because the interfaces, etc are different
[13:13] <aantn> yet firefox users are happy and consider extensions to be ff's best feature
[13:13] <seb128_> ok, I stop there
[13:13] <seb128_> you are a troll
[13:13] <aantn> most extensions have nothing to do with browsing
[13:13] <aantn> lol
[13:13] <seb128_> you have a similar feature in nautilus
[13:14] <Kim^J> Everyone an Ubuntu-dev?
[13:14] <seb128_> and add functions is different than turning your application is something else dynamically
[13:14] <aantn> this argument isn't going anywhere, so I'll stop if you'd prefer
[13:14] <aantn> seb128_: features like that do NOT belong in Nautilus core
[13:14] <seb128_> I'm stopping this discussion, I've spent too much time trolling already
[13:14] <seb128_> I should stop doing that ;-)
[13:14] <Kim^J> Which feature?
[13:15] <cjwatson> Kim^J: this channel has a high population of Ubuntu developers, though not exclusively
[13:15] <cjwatson> we'd appreciate it being kept for development coordination
[13:15]  * aantn gulps
[13:15] <aantn> sorry
[13:15] <Kim^J> cjwatson: Sure. :) Give me something to develop. :)
[13:15] <cjwatson> Kim^J: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
[13:15] <Kim^J> Though I don't do Ubuntu anymore on desktop. :|
[13:16] <cjwatson> (can't give you something specific, it depends on your personal skills and interests)
[13:16] <aantn> Kim^J: what language?
[13:16] <Kim^J> aantn: C++, PHP, more if you like.
[13:16] <aantn> (I'm not speeking for ubuntu)
[13:16] <SEJeff> Kim^J, So help out the serverteam
[13:16] <aantn> not a bad idea
[13:16]  * Keybuk wants to write applications in PHP
[13:16] <Kim^J> SEJeff: Mkay.
[13:17]  * cjwatson checks. Did somebody replace Keybuk?
[13:17] <Kim^J> Keybuk: No you don't. ;) Trust me on that one.
[13:17] <stgraber> Keybuk: let's use PHP+GTK instead of Python+GTK :)
[13:17] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: http://xubuntu.org/news/hardy/release says access denied; known?
[13:17]  * cody-somerville nods.
[13:18] <Kim^J> Well, busride home, Laters!
[13:18] <cody-somerville> cjwatson, It'll become available when the release announcement is sent out.
[13:18] <stgraber> cjwatson, cody-somerville: that's Drupal's behaviour for not published content
[13:18] <cjwatson> mkay
[13:18] <cjwatson> just making sure you'll be able to publish it
[13:18] <persia> cody-somerville: It used to work, and the torrents seem to work.
[13:19] <cjwatson> I don't know if xubuntu.org has the same kinds of load problems as ubuntu.com
[13:19] <cody-somerville> I doubt it. We're on a different server.
[13:19] <cody-somerville> We're on humboldt
[13:20] <laga> yay!
[13:21] <james_w> congratulations everyone.
[13:21] <cody-somerville> Congratz!
[13:22] <mok0> congrats!
[13:22] <james_w> especially slangasek, thanks a lot.
[13:22] <laga> yup :)
[13:22] <aantn> congrats
[13:22] <pedro_> congrats folks!
[13:22] <stgraber> congrats slangasek and the others
[13:23] <slangasek> good job, all
[13:23]  * cody-somerville cheers.
[13:23] <slangasek> now for .1 :)
[13:23] <laga> slangasek: get some sleep first :)
[13:24] <slangasek> laga: yes, I'm following the process on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseProcess diligently ;)
[13:25] <TheMuso> Well done folks.
[13:26] <mrtimdog> Is there a download stats page for HH? Just thought it may be interesting if one exists :)
[13:28] <AstralJava> Conga-rats all-around!
[13:28] <StevenK> slangasek: Nice work!
[13:28] <laga> argh
[13:28] <Mithrandir> congrats everybody.
[13:28] <laga> mirrors aren't updated yet ;)
[13:29] <Mithrandir> releases.u.c seems slighly overloaded.
[13:29] <slangasek> laga: many of them are
[13:29] <laga> yeah
[13:30] <laga> i'm being impatient ;)
[13:30] <persia> laga: Torrents are operational, and fairly well seeded for most CDs.
[13:30] <laga> yup
[13:31] <laga> i just had some trouble getting to the .torrents
[13:31] <laga> i've got it now
[13:36] <pochu> congratulations folks!
[13:36] <pochu> and the question now is: when can I start uploading to Intrepid? :)
[13:36] <seb128_> hey pochu
[13:36] <TheMuso> pochu: lol
[13:36] <seb128_> pochu: what about fixing hardy issues for a while still? you can upload to hardy-proposed already
[13:37] <seb128_> ;-)
[13:37] <pochu> hi seb128_
[13:37] <Pici> Thats no fun :(
[13:37] <pochu> seb128_: oh, that's cool too ;)
[13:37] <pochu> Pici: why not?
[13:37] <pochu> Pici: you can break more things there, so there's more fun!
[13:37] <Pici> pochu: Oh, in that case.... :P
[13:38] <jdub> congrats dudes. :_)
[13:38] <seb128_> jdub: thanks ;-)
[13:38]  * ogra hugs jdong 
[13:38] <ogra> err
[13:38] <ogra> you too
[13:38]  * ogra hugs jdub 
[13:38] <ogra> :)
[13:38] <Amaranth> !kirby
[13:38] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about kirby - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[13:38] <Amaranth> aww
[13:38] <Amaranth> wanted to dance :)
[13:39] <jdub> http://bethesignal.org/blog/2008/04/24/smooth-upgrade-to-ubuntu-804-lts-on-my-linode/
[13:40] <ale1> hey all, congrats to all for the work on hardy!!! Im running the RC now. :-) im looking for some doc's on how to mount a usb drive at boot to the same mount point. . . any ideas?? Ive been looking into UDEV rules but i got confused . . . :-(
[13:40] <ogra> :)
[13:42] <cody-somerville> Are the torrents for Xubuntu been updated?
[13:42] <cody-somerville> Someone is reporting the sizes are different or something
[13:42] <cody-somerville> Nvm, they report SUF
[13:43] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: not to my knowledge
[13:43] <cody-somerville> erm?!
[13:43] <slangasek> "SUF"?
[13:43] <cody-somerville> stupid user failure, apparently.
[13:44] <ogra> ubuntuized that would be a UUF
[13:44] <ogra> unexperienced user failure :)
[13:45]  * Hobbsee waves
[13:45]  * persia prefers inexperienced to avoid confusion with 'U' as "Ubuntu"
[13:46] <ogra> heh
[13:52] <mok0> uwf blocked my torrent download
[14:00] <mok0> s/uwf/ufw
[14:07] <cody-somerville> Is it just me or does the Ubuntu homepage not render correctly anymore? :P
[14:07] <Hobbsee> people are hammering it...
[14:08] <cody-somerville> Yes but the page doesn't render correctly.
[14:08] <cody-somerville> The left nav is getting pushed to the right side of the page.
[14:08] <broonie> Often that's due to a timeout on some essential component of the page.
[14:09] <Niptech> hi
[14:10]  * cody-somerville doesn't think that is the case.
[14:10] <pitti> so then, let the hardy SRU madness begin!
[14:10]  * pitti processes -proposed
[14:11] <seb128> pitti: waouh ;-)
[14:11] <sistpoty|work> cody-somerville: works for me, at least if js is turned off :)
[14:13] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: http://xubuntu.org/news/hardy/release <- Xubuntu 8.04 isn't LTS; could you please remove that bit?
[14:14] <cjwatson> I'm not sure Xubuntu 6.06 is accurately described as LTS either, although we weren't so clear on terminology then
[14:15] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: I believe that all the release-noted items there were addressed after RC, too, though I'm not sure about the last one ("Dictionary packages are not properly installed from the Alternative CD" - by the way that should be Alternate install CD not Alternative)
[14:18] <kagou> Congratulations to all !
[14:20] <davmor2> Congrats to everyone :)
[14:23] <Mithrandir> hm, release notes for 8.04 seems to be missing from http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes
[14:23] <pitti> laga: FYI, I reject your hardy-proposed upload; please reupload with a proper SRU bug reference
[14:23] <laga> pitti: thanks.
[14:24] <pitti> laga: thank you; sorry for the strictness, but without a bug# it's a pain to check and track
[14:24] <laga> pitti: i wasn't even aware it went to hardy-proposed. i'll do a normal SRU
[14:39] <mishok13> #ubuntu-bugs
[15:54] <emgent> morning
[15:54] <emgent> happy hardy day :P
[15:55] <Hobbsee> emgent: join the fun in #ubuntu-release-party, if you like
[16:09] <emgent> Hobbsee: :)
[16:11] <zyga_> hello
[16:11] <zyga_> I'd like to point out that the current ubuntu.com page is broken on safari
[16:11] <zyga_> compared to firefox there is an unexpected bar with menus on the right
[16:12] <zyga_> in firefox the menus are on the left, below the flash banner
[16:12] <zyga_> since it's D-day I guess public visibility is important and someone might care about changing that
[16:12] <zyga_> thanks
[16:14] <zyga_> oh... someone fixed that1
[16:14] <seb128> zyga_: that's likely due to some timeouts
[16:14] <zyga_> might be so, anyway it looks great now
[16:21] <cody-somerville> I don't think it is timeouts
[16:21] <cody-somerville> It isn't rendering correctly in firefox 2 or safari
[16:23]  * cody-somerville notes that it is fixed though if you reload the entire thing.
[16:23] <cody-somerville> For firefox 2 atleast.
[16:25] <seb128> cody-somerville: are you sure the first try just didn't timeout?
[16:25] <cody-somerville> Yes.
[16:25] <cody-somerville> I just talked with Matthew
[16:25] <seb128> ah ok
[16:25] <cody-somerville> There was an issue.
[16:47] <alex-weej> gnomefreak: you there?
[16:51] <Fujisan> happy bd hardy heron :)
[16:51] <Fujisan> can i party here Hobbsee had to ban me from the party
[16:51] <Fujisan> for a joke
[16:51] <Fujisan> i will tell you all about iut
[16:51] <Fujisan> everyday
[16:51] <laga> i guess it wasn't funny
[16:52] <Pici> Tricking people into pressing ctrl+alt+backspace usually isnt.
[16:52] <laga> yeah, that causes stabby thoughts
[16:53] <ion_> I wouldn't mind there being a confirmation for ctrl-alt-backspace, though. :-)
[16:54] <_MMA_> hahahahhahaa
[16:54] <thom> that would be mad irritating
[16:54] <ion_> Well, as in "you have to hit the combination twice". Not really a problem IMO.
[16:54] <Kim^J> With checkbox ``Don't ask me again.'' that actually WORKS.
[16:57] <Hobbsee> laga: he's doing it in multiple channels.
[16:57] <laga> Hobbsee: time for a nice k-line handed out by freenode staff
[16:57] <Hobbsee> laga: i don't take kindly to harassment, and the freenode staffers appear to be all out drinking.
[16:57] <Hobbsee> laga: they say "ignore him, it's only one user"
[16:57] <Hobbsee> laga: usually they do though, yes.
[17:07] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: what a sick fuck
[17:07] <Chipzz> I hope he enjoys the k-line
[17:08] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: that wasn't his only channel.  nor was it the worst he did.  eh's not klined yet, either.
[17:08]  * Hobbsee grumbles at freenode staff.
[17:08] <Chipzz> I hope he will be though
[17:08] <Hobbsee> he shoudl be, if freenode actually follow their policies
[17:08] <Chipzz> I messaged him in private to express my thoughts about him
[17:08] <Chipzz> you wanna know the funny part?
[17:08] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: don't do that.  he comes out with some *really* weird stuff in PM
[17:08] <Hobbsee> sure, it might be amusing
[17:08] <Chipzz> he actually accused me of harassing him
[17:09] <Hobbsee> hah
[17:09] <alex-weej> crimsun: turns out libflashsupport was installed as part of ia32-libs on my system. it is, indeed, needed. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/192888
[17:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 192888 in pulseaudio "firefox crashes on flash contents" [High,In progress]
[17:09] <Chipzz> I told him him I'ld rather believe a respected member of the community (you) than some sick fuck (him)
[17:10] <Chipzz> tricking people into pressing c-a-b :(
[17:10] <Chipzz> I wonder how much hours of work was lost :(
[17:11] <Hobbsee> probably not many, seeing as it was -r-p, and so they were probably just watching irc.
[17:11] <Chipzz> -r-p?
[17:11] <Chipzz> oh
[17:12] <Chipzz> -release-party?
[17:12] <Chipzz> I still think it's pretty sick though
[17:13] <Chipzz> though I probably wouldn't have lost much, because a) I know what c-a-b does, and b) I do all my work inside a screen anyway :)
[17:16] <highvoltage> *BZZZZZT*
[17:18] <Hobbsee> heh, yes
[17:18] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: lots of people are pretty sick.  it appears that certian types of people attract them.
[17:19] <Chipzz> what's worse
[17:19] <Chipzz> it may give linux a bad name
[17:19] <Chipzz> "I accidently pressed these keys, and I lost a whole day of work"
[17:20] <laga> it gives idiots a bad name IMHO
[17:20] <laga> ;)
[17:20] <Chipzz> kinda reminds me of that Apple ad though ;)
[17:20] <Chipzz> what that stoned girl
[17:20] <Chipzz> what's her name again? :)
[17:20] <laga> paris hilton?
[17:21] <Chipzz> no
[17:21] <Chipzz> Ellen Feis
[17:21] <Chipzz> http://youtube.com/watch?v=_GxC4kKD9qA
[17:21] <johanbr> Leslie Feist. And what makes you think she's stoned?
[17:22] <kees> so, apt will order dpkg actions correctly, but if I have a mess of packages to install (like say Ooo), is there a way to simulate apt's dpkg install order?
[17:23] <Chipzz> johanbr: s/stoned/"stoned"/
[17:23] <Chipzz> she probably isn't, but there were lots of people who though she was
[17:23] <sistpoty|work> kees: I'm not too sure, but if you give dpkg multiple packages, doesn't it do the right thing then?
[17:24] <ion_> sudo dpkg --unpack *.deb && sudo apt-get -f install
[17:24] <Chipzz> sistpoty|work: no, I don't think it does
[17:24] <ion_> Close enough?
[17:24] <kees> sistpoty|work: it doesn't always. (like when there are specific depends on eachother).  doing it a second time works, though.
[17:24] <Chipzz> ion_: no
[17:24] <kees> ion_: hmm
[17:24] <Chipzz> that's not what he was asking
[17:24] <Chipzz> kees: --dry-run?
[17:25] <Chipzz> or something like that?
[17:25] <Chipzz> yup, correct option
[17:25] <kees> Chipzz: let me try with --dry-run...
[17:25] <Chipzz> not sure if it will be of any use to you though
[17:26] <Chipzz> ion_: you were answering "how do I install a bunch of packages", which was not at all what he was asking
[17:27] <Chipzz> ion_: I'm guessing he wanted to figure out possible interactions due to the order of unpacking and pre/post|install/rm scripts
[17:27] <ion_> chipzz: Yes, i misparsed the question.
[17:27] <Chipzz> ion_: :)
[17:28] <kees> Chipzz: well, it seems to be an issue with "I can't install A because B needs A to be installed first.  if I had done dpkg -i B A it would have worked, e.g.
[17:28] <kees> (but I had run dpkg -i A B)
[17:29] <sistpoty|work> kees: imho the only real way to figure out all bits is to use a local repo and use apt then (e.g. circular deps will get broken up by apt in way I always forget)
[17:29] <Chipzz> sistpoty|work: but you're probably right that dpkg /should/ do the right thing though. except it doesn't ;)
[17:30] <kees> sistpoty|work: yeah, that's what I'm thinking.  honestly, doing that would save me a little pain in getting builds to my VMs anyway.
[17:31] <kees> I really want  apt-get install .
[17:31] <kees> ::P
[17:31] <kees> eek mutant smiley
[17:31] <sistpoty|work> heh
[17:31] <ion_> I have file:/var/cache/pbuilder/result in sources.list and an apt pre-invoke hook that basically runs dpkg-scanpackages in the directory. :-)
[17:32] <ion_> A quick hack that works FSVO works. :-)
[17:33] <ion_> Whoops, APT::Update::Pre-Invoke, that is.
[17:42] <Milos_SD> Hi all ... Can someone tell me does 64bit ubuntu kernel has all drivers for TV cards as 32bit has? And does all common applications (audio/video decoding/encoding) are working?
[17:44] <Kim^J> Milos_SD: Just use 32-bit.
[17:45] <mjg59> Milos_SD: All the same drivers should be included
[17:45] <mjg59> Kim^J: No. Please don't advise people to do that.
[17:45] <gnomefreak> /win 1
[17:45] <Kim^J> mjg59: Why not? Less trouble, people often doesn't need 64-bits anyways.
[17:47] <mjg59> Because it's not an answer to the question asked, and you've no idea what his requirements are
[17:47] <Milos_SD> Well, I have C2D CPU, and 64bit is logical solution ... 32bit is nice, but ... 64bit is maybe faster, or it is not?
[17:47] <mjg59> It is
[17:48] <mjg59> Milos_SD: But #ubuntu is the right place to ask about this
[17:50] <Kim^J> mjg59: About 99.99% of the people asking questions about 64-bit doesn't have a clue WHY they need it. Just that they need it. The other 00.01% have a VERY good reason to use 64-bit.
[17:51] <_MMA_> Kim^J: Link to those stats? In the end, it wasn't the needed answer to the question.
[17:54] <Milos_SD> at #ubuntu I can't get the answer ... So many times I asked diffrent questions there, but almost never got the answer ...
[17:54] <Kim^J> _MMA_: Well, it's not stats, just what I've experienced as an Ubuntu-supporter for the last 3 years.
[17:55] <LaserJock> practically, Flash and Java are a tad more trouble to get going, but that's the only problem I've seen with 64-bit Ubuntu
[17:56] <mjg59> LaserJock: I don't think Flash is even an issue these days, given the automatic pulling in of nspluginviewer
[17:56] <laga> flash sucks on both platforms
[17:57] <LaserJock> mjg59: ah
[17:58] <Kim^J> laga: Flash always suck. ;)
[17:58] <laga> yes.
[17:58] <laga> (i hate adobe for flash)
[17:58] <calc> cool my webcam works, cheese is the first time i had something to use it with :)
[17:58] <Kim^J> Oh well, are there any cool projects to jump into? (Not to hard to read the code, fairly small.)
[17:59] <highvoltage> laga: there's much better things to hate adobe for, imho
[17:59] <LaserJock> calc: hah, same here
[17:59] <laga> highvoltage: but flash is the only one which crashes my browser
[18:00]  * calc thinks something that should be included by default for 8.10 if room can be found
[18:00] <calc> helps users see their hardware works properly
[18:00] <Amaranth> calc: Like a little 3D demo with sound?
[18:00] <laga> Amaranth: does dxdiag.exe work in wine?
[18:01] <mjg59> laga: Ironically, on 64-bit flash can't crash your browser...
[18:01] <Amaranth> i love how http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/804features/ shows compiz with a cube
[18:01] <Amaranth> which is not the default and not real simple to switch to
[18:02] <cjwatson> Kim^J: ... guess you won't be wanting openoffice.org then
[18:02] <laga> mjg59: no, it just tends to become unusable.  but i think it got better recently
[18:02] <Kim^J> cjwatson: No, not really. That's kinda out of my leauge. :)
[18:02] <cjwatson> Kim^J: seriously, need a little more idea about the sorts of things you're interested in (topics rather than languages)
[18:02] <laga> we always need python slaves for mythbuntu ;)
[18:03] <Kim^J> laga: NO WAY.
[18:03] <Kim^J> I avoid Python as much as I can.
[18:03] <laga> heh
[18:03] <Kim^J> cjwatson: Hmm, I'm into computers, like when things follow KISS and are REALLY simple to use. (But not Gnome-simple, there MUST be functionality to it.)
[18:04] <laga> hahaha
[18:04] <highvoltage> Gnome has pleny of functionality.
[18:04] <Kim^J> highvoltage: No, I go with Linus Torvalds on Gnome.
[18:05] <highvoltage> Kim^J: if you want to see minmilism and oversimplicity go too far, try OSX, I tried it out and it frustrated me endlessly. but I'm not going to discuss that here.
[18:05] <_MMA_> *sigh* This is gonna be productive.
[18:05] <calc> Amaranth: yea for 3d test, though compiz is on by default now, for testing webcam's built into laptops, etc cheese looks like it would work well
[18:06] <Kim^J> highvoltage: I don't want oversimplicity, but I shouldn't have to dig into a tonne of manuals just to get something really simple to work. (I haven't seen this yet though...)
[18:06] <Kim^J> highvoltage: And btw, I have tried OS X. :)
[18:21] <\sh> whoever proposed the new default ff page...cudos for it...well done, looks really incredible
[18:22] <stgraber> just noticed it, indeed that's really great job
[18:22] <\sh> but this "uninstall feature" which is advertised on ubuntu.com, I really don't understand....what is left when you uninstall ubuntu?
[18:23] <cjwatson> \sh: it's meant as a joke - I think it's a mistake
[18:23] <cjwatson> (rather, I think it's a mistaken humour target since it's something people request)
[18:23] <_MMA_> Sure its not related to Wubi?
[18:23]  * _MMA_ looks.
[18:23] <\sh> cjwatson, hehe...my statement was a joke, too...in the spirit of this ad :) actually it made me laugh :)
[18:23] <cjwatson> not really as written
[18:23] <\sh> _MMA_, really no
[18:23] <cjwatson> although it is true that wubi allows uninstallation
[18:24] <\sh> cjwatson, and again thx for fixing this >2TB part stuff...it helped me a lot
[18:24] <cjwatson> glad to help
[18:24] <highvoltage> \sh: how's hardy running on your servers?
[18:24] <evand> I figured that's what the ad was referring to.
[18:24] <\sh> highvoltage, rock solid :)
[18:25] <highvoltage> \sh: *excellent*
[18:25] <\sh> highvoltage, it took me around 15-20 mins to install server + application ...
[18:25] <highvoltage> \sh: the magic of ubuntu and free software :)
[18:25] <\sh> highvoltage, actually, my colleague said: "dude, why do you install beta software, hardy's not ready for release"
[18:26]  * jdong has seeded 27GiB since the morning
[18:26] <stgraber> jdong_: 93G so far here :)
[18:26] <jdong> stgraber: nice :)
[18:26]  * stgraber is watching his monthly quota melting
[18:26] <\sh> I told him, "friend, it's two days before final release the RC is rock solid, and I trust at least my work on hardy...so go to hell with your "it's beta software"
[18:27] <highvoltage> \sh: yeah, I read your blog entry on it
[18:27] <\sh> "i know most people working on it...and I trust them with my last penny"
[18:28] <\sh> highvoltage, there will be a followup .. the product and some pictures...
[18:28] <\sh> when I finished to upgrade to hardy from my dapper root
[18:32] <mok0> seeding at 1.4 MB/s
[18:32] <mok0> 8Gb so far
[18:32]  * highvoltage wish he could have that kind of connection
[18:33] <mok0> BT is awesome
[18:33] <Hobbsee> mok0: i've been seeding at 15MB/s for the past few hours...
[18:33] <mok0> Whoa
[18:33] <Hobbsee> it's....really nice
[18:33] <Hobbsee> but man, ti chews bandwidth.
[18:33] <Hobbsee> (that's an ave bandwidth, not a max)
[18:34]  * laga has been seeding at 1mbit/s :/
[18:34] <stgraber> 20MB/s for some hours here too (server is on Gigabit)
[18:34] <laga> now it's down to 400kbit/s. sad
[18:34] <highvoltage> mok0: BT as in British Telecom?
[18:34] <\sh> if (server is back again) then { starting btlaunchmanycurses . --max_upload_rate 300} else { wasted bandwidth at all }
[18:34] <mok0> highvoltage: BT as in BitTorrent
[18:34] <highvoltage> mok0: shew :)
[18:35] <mok0> highvoltage: hehe
[18:35] <mok0> I don't remember other Ubuntu releases distributed via torrents... I may be wrong...
[18:36] <\sh> mok0, since hoary or breezy I think?
[18:36] <mok0> \sh: ah ,ok
[18:37] <\sh> but I think maswan will have a lot of fun watching the trafic meter today ;)
[18:37] <mok0> From the upload stats I estimated that i386 is more popular than amd64 in the ratio 2:1
[18:37] <mok0> s/estimated/estimate
[18:37] <\sh> mok0, well, most people are still using i386 over amd64...
[18:37] <\sh> mok0, desktop wise...
[18:38] <mok0> right amd64 server is doing better
[18:38] <\sh> and today I found a nice glitch in php5 and zend-framework
[18:38] <\sh> using crc32 is PITA
[18:39] <\sh> (means, a different behaviour on i386 and amd64)
[18:42] <mok0> Going now, see you
[18:48] <\sh> Kids, don't do that at home....
[18:48] <\sh> root@server3:~# w
  19:46:53 up 188 days,  5:29,  2 users,  load average: 85,26, 138,34, 151,94
[18:48] <highvoltage> shew
[18:48] <\sh> dapper rocks...
[18:48] <\sh> it just doesn't want to die
[18:48] <highvoltage> at least it's coming down and not up :)
[18:48] <\sh> a load of over 100 and this fcking bastard still serves dircproxy really nicely.
[18:49] <\sh> smtp, imap, web , everything's doomed, but dircproxy still works lol
[18:50] <\sh> highvoltage, yeah.. load average: 3,17, 64,95, 118,83 nice numbers...really
[18:50] <\sh> mysql went crazy...too many connections...why soever.,..I need to investigate
[18:50] <\sh> and finally ordered a new rootserver as a fall back
[18:51] <\sh> 4GB ram, dual core opteron , 800 GB storage, unlimited traffic..
[18:51] <bluefoxicy> guys update-manager is just hanging trying to get the update program for 8.04
[18:52] <bluefoxicy> the servers are freaking loaded ~_~  Have you considered using a bittorrent-like method?
[18:52] <bluefoxicy> I must go to work now
[18:53] <highvoltage> bluefoxicy: I think there was a spec for that once
[18:54] <laga> i wonder why canonical doesn't buy some bandwidth from akamai for the release
[18:55] <\sh> laga, akamai is expensive ...
[18:55] <laga> oh. i thought they might throw in a few terabytes for $5 or so ;)
[18:56] <\sh> laga, and they don't follow your rules..but you have to follow their rules...sometimes this is not possible
[18:56] <zul> torrents are available though
[18:56] <realist> akamai pricing is negotiable too
[18:57] <laga> \sh: i've never worked with them. i've just heard they have mad bandwidth
[18:58] <realist> laga: they cache your content at their own POPs
[18:58] <realist> Like, a distributed proxy
[18:58] <\sh> laga, bandwidth is no problem today
[18:59] <laga> \sh: why are people complaining about slow mirrors then? ;)
[18:59] <highvoltage> \sh: have you forgotten what south africa is like!?
[19:00] <\sh> highvoltage, no :)
[19:00] <\sh> highvoltage, but actually it's only a matter of money today :)
[19:00] <Keybuk> Err http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com gutsy Release.gpg
[19:00] <Keybuk>   Could not connect to gb.archive.ubuntu.com:80 (194.169.254.10), connection timed out
[19:01] <Keybuk> STOP HAMMERING THE RUDDY DATA CENTRE :p
[19:01] <highvoltage> Keybuk: sorry :)
[19:02]  * \sh waits for mirroring archive.ubuntu.com until next week
[19:02] <highvoltage> \sh: don't you have a local mirror to mirror from?
[19:02] <\sh> highvoltage, the local de.mirror gives me 43kB/s
[19:03] <\sh> highvoltage, and mostly this mirror is outdated when I start my mirror job
[19:03] <\sh> highvoltage, and every german mirror at all...
[19:04] <highvoltage> \sh: ouch
[19:06] <\sh> highvoltage, actually I mirrored the company mirror from my home machine ;)
[19:07] <highvoltage> \sh: been there :)
[19:08] <nxvl> i thought that the day after release would be calm and a little like vacation
[19:08] <nxvl> but now i know that are the worsts days!
[19:08] <laga> is it the day after release? still release day for me :)
[19:08] <nxvl> i mean the days
[19:08] <highvoltage> still release day in most places
[19:08] <nxvl> including the release day
[19:09] <nxvl> well i could say "after release" insted of "the days after"
[19:09] <\sh> nxvl, it's not down under or near there, here :)
[19:10] <nxvl> \sh: huh?
[19:10] <\sh> nxvl, germany has still 4 hours to go to call it "after release day" ;)
[19:10] <nxvl> \sh: oh! yes, here it is still 11 hours
[19:11] <nxvl> \sh: but i mean from the moment of the release to some days after that
[19:11] <\sh> nxvl, yeah..but .NZ or .AU is already "after release day" imho
[19:11] <nxvl> or at least is what i wanted to say
[19:11] <alex-weej> Linux 2.6.24-16 hangs on "Begin: Waiting for root file system... ..." whereas -15 doesn't
[19:11] <alex-weej> eventually it claims /dev/disk/by-uuid/etc doesn't exist
[19:11] <Kim^J> \sh: NZ/AU as in what?
[19:12] <\sh> new zealand , australia
[19:12] <Kim^J> Ah
[19:12] <Kim^J> I have 4 hours left on release day. :)
[19:12]  * \sh needs a smoke...and some more beer
[19:12] <realist> Conincidently, it's ANZAC day today :-)
[19:12] <Kim^J> \sh: If you're in Germany, I'm above you. :)
[19:13] <\sh> Kim^J, hmm...8:12pm here...
[19:13] <Kim^J> \sh: 2013 here. :)
[19:14] <johanbr> Kim^J: You're five years in the future?
[19:14] <Kim^J> johanbr: Naaah. :P Time. :P
[19:14] <Kim^J> johanbr: And hey. :)
[19:27] <\sh> Kim^J, so it's the same time actually ;) 8:27pm is in 24h mode: 2027 ;)
[19:28] <Kim^J> \sh: I know, I just prefer to write 0000 (Military-damage...)
[19:34] <cjwatson> Keybuk: gb.archive isn't in the datacentre ...
[19:35] <Keybuk>  5. ubuntu.datahop.it                 0.0%     2   39.4  39.8  39.4  40.1   0.5
[19:35] <Keybuk> ?
[19:35] <Keybuk> yes it is
[19:35] <elmo> no it's not
[19:35] <Keybuk> no?
[19:35] <elmo> no
[19:35] <Keybuk> where is that then
[19:35] <elmo> it's our hardware, but hosted by datahop, in one of their data centres
[19:36] <ogra> one could have guessed that :) .... (ubuntu.datahop.it)
[19:43] <Keybuk> ahh
[19:43] <Keybuk> I thought datahop meant it was the dh pipe to our data centre
[19:48] <elmo> no, the dh pipe is called canonical-gw.datahop.it or something
[19:52] <Keybuk> silly me
[19:52] <Keybuk> is it stacked on top of boxes of beer?
[20:06] <calc> what is the command to generate the uuid's in /etc/fstab?
[20:06] <calc> er to find out what they are for a partition i mean
[20:06] <cjwatson> vol_id --uuid
[20:06] <calc> ah ok
[20:06]  * calc thinks that should be in the comments at the top of /etc/fstab
[20:30] <hunger> The servers are ridiculously slow, so you probably managed to release;-) Congratulations to a job well done.
[20:30] <Jessica_lilly> im using the native linux drivers for my wireless card and hardy is just freezing and wont come out of the freeze but everything else seems good so thanks for the realese
[20:30] <laga> Jessica_lilly: you should file a bug report
[20:31] <Jessica_lilly> the card i have is known to cause problems with linux no distro can make it work but ubuntu
[20:31] <Jessica_lilly> and it will only work for me in gutsy
[20:33] <sabdfl> very well done all
[20:33]  * _MMA_ waves.
[20:43] <megabyte405> congrats on the release, hitting the torrent now.  looking forward to finishing up the abiword integration soon
[20:51] <mario_limonciell> slangasek, has the DVD final not been mastered?  I got through to cdimages.ubuntu.com briefly but didn't see it there.
[20:54] <calc> mario_limonciell: it was there earlier today
[20:54] <cjwatson> mario_limonciell: should be http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/8.04/release/
[20:56] <mario_limonciell> cjwatson, hm DVD's too? didn't see this morning, but i'll keep trying to get connected and see.
[20:58] <cjwatson> mario_limonciell: that directory just has DVDs and source
[21:28] <mathiaz> jcastro: is it possible to change the category of an idea on brainstorm ?
[21:29] <mathiaz> stgraber: ^^
[21:29] <jcastro> mathiaz: stgraber is the person to ask - let me know what the answer is though, I am interested as well
[21:30]  * jcastro doesn't see a way to change it
[21:32] <mathiaz> jcastro: oh - I've found it - edit the description
[21:32] <mathiaz> jcastro: there is menu to change the category
[21:33] <jcastro> ah, nice
[21:52] <juliank> cjwatson: I send you an email, but please don't answer, as it's the wrong one. I'll send a new one to the list.
[21:55] <juliank> cjwatson: The second one is sent
[22:34] <Caesar> tjaalton: where's the source package for the fix for #113679?
[22:35] <smallfoot-> the new start page in firefox for 8.04 is much better than old one, its much easier!
[22:35] <smallfoot-> thx
[22:39] <RussellGee> im in love with it :p
[22:40] <crimsun> alex-weej: heh, thought as much.
[23:23] <n6rej> I hope someone is here to help because I've REAL problems all of the sudden on my server after upgrading to hardy :(
[23:23] <n6rej> its saying it SRST faileD?
[23:24] <n6rej> can someone PLEASE help?
[23:24] <laga> n6rej: try #ubuntu
[23:24] <laga> and make sure to provide the complete error message
[23:24] <n6rej> yeah, its crazy over there
[23:25] <n6rej> laga: I generally do.  Its saying /dev/disk/byuuid/blah does not exist :(
[23:26] <n6rej> thats what I came here when nobody answered over there
[23:42] <smallfoot-> plz add 7z support out-of-the-box
[23:46] <ted1> smallfoot-: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/