[00:09] <bspencer_> persia, ping
[00:09] <persia> bspencer_: pong
[00:09] <bspencer_> Emmet -- howdy.  Have we met?
[00:09] <persia> In person? I doubt it.
[00:09] <bspencer> I see you recently updated mobile-basic-flash in the hardy PPA
[00:09] <bspencer> when I make an image it comes up all white.  I wonder if you tried it before or after pushing it
[00:10] <bspencer> I was thinking ubuntu guys were going to wait until it was stable before pulling it over
[00:10] <persia> bspencer: Both.  The image worked for me (although icon display is still wonky for xul reasons)
[00:10] <bspencer> it also increases the boot time by 8sec.
[00:10] <bspencer> ah -- is it due to xul 1.9 issue?
[00:11] <bspencer> I also thought that was on hold until the kinks were worked out.  
[00:11] <bspencer> anyhow -- I'll try to fix it soon
[00:11] <persia> Ah.  In that case, it might just be that I didn't get the word on it being on hold.  I'm not sure about the delay, but would happily pull again to resolve the boot time issue.
[00:12] <bspencer> asac, 
[00:13] <persia> I'm basing my blame on xul for the lack of icons from http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/04/19/%23ubuntu-mobile.html, although I may be mistaken.
[00:15] <bspencer> hadn't seen that.  ok.  I'll fix it.
[00:22] <persia> bspencer: For me, that only makes the icons not appear.  I'm not getting an all-white screen, and wondering what is causing that for you.
[00:23] <bspencer> persia, I used the menlow-lpia-hardy-ppa   platform.
[00:24] <persia> Hmm.  I'm using mccaslin-lpia-hardy-ppa.
[05:55] <dholbach> good morning
[05:55] <inkynoob> 'morning
[06:02] <dholbach> hi inkynoob
[06:03] <inkynoob> Where are you at that it's morning there? 
[06:17] <Xiliath> does UME support mouse input?
[06:23] <jouston> Xiliath: Yes.
[08:23] <inkynoo1> Ubuntu Hardy comes out today, will UME development continue in the Hardy repositories, or will it move into Ibex?
[12:57] <dns53> the last update in normal hardy is nice, it is a useable desktop for my eeepc now
[16:13]  * landley waves at davidm.
[16:13] <landley> There's a meeting thingy today?
[16:13] <davidm> landley, yes there will be an open meeting today
[16:13]  * landley is curious.  Will try to show up.
[16:16] <davidm> landley, About 45 minutes, some boring actually but anyone can attend.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/ and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080424
[16:43] <bspencer> kyleN_: what's the page to your i18n again?
[16:43] <bspencer> and if someone could help me navigate the mobile and embedded pgae, I get confused:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/ReportingPage
[16:43] <bspencer> where on there does it point to the pages about i18n, the weekly meeting minutes, etc.?
[16:44] <bspencer> ah, that's an odd page.  here's the right page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded
[16:44] <bspencer> my bad.
[16:45] <kyleN_> bspencer: there are two
[16:45] <bspencer> got em
[16:45] <bspencer> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/I18nMobileCode
[16:45] <bspencer> is the one I need to update I believe
[16:45] <kyleN_> ok
[16:46] <bspencer> kyleN_: actually, where do you want the list of moblin apps i18n status?
[16:47] <kyleN_> bspencer: I think another sibling page makes sense
[16:47] <bspencer> where are the weekly meeting minutes posted?
[16:47] <kyleN_> i have to check my email every week to find it
[16:47] <kyleN_> did you get one from david m this week?
[16:48] <bspencer> davidm... searching
[16:48] <bspencer> yes
[16:49] <bspencer> was looking for loic
[16:49] <davidm> Loic is at lunch will be here in a couple of minutes
[16:57] <landley> Wow, ubuntu.com is down.
[16:58] <landley> And back up.  Weird.
[16:58] <agoliveira> landley: Everything related to ubuntu is really slow today due the release.
[17:01] <lool> #startmeeting
[17:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 18:01. The chair is lool.
[17:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:01] <lool> Hi folks!
[17:01] <lool> Hope you had a nice week
[17:01]  * agoliveira waves all
[17:02]  * lool tries to load the wiki page, which takes some time...
[17:02] <lool> So, we'll start with the action items from last week
[17:02] <lool> [topic] (bspencer) document status of i18n of moblin modules on Ubuntu wiki; needs discussion with asac and cwong for FF
[17:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  (bspencer) document status of i18n of moblin modules on Ubuntu wiki; needs discussion with asac and cwong for FF 
[17:03] <lool> bspencer: heya; how has it been going on that front?
[17:03] <bspencer> howdy
[17:03] <bspencer> working on it presently
[17:03] <bspencer> I thought I would add these to an existing page
[17:03] <bspencer> or just append them to the minutes
[17:03] <bspencer> unless there's a better place
[17:03] <lool> bspencer: I think you should add them to a wiki page, yes
[17:04] <lool> One of the i18n ones for instance or a new one
[17:04] <bspencer> yes, a new page?
[17:04] <lool> I don't think that's important; as long as one can find it if one searches for i18n or something
[17:04] <bspencer> sure.  I'll just link off of one of Kyle's
[17:04] <bspencer> so the status is not done.   But doing...
[17:04] <lool> Hmm ok
[17:05] <lool> This sounds quite bad to manage providing actual translations for the UME Core release or for customer derivatives
[17:05] <lool> We're like at one month from our target dates and it requires Launchpad massaging to do the stuff afterwards
[17:05] <lool> So it's quite urgent
[17:05] <lool> [action] (bspencer) document status of i18n of moblin modules on Ubuntu wiki; needs discussion with asac and cwong for FF [cted]
[17:05] <MootBot> ACTION received:  (bspencer) document status of i18n of moblin modules on Ubuntu wiki; needs discussion with asac and cwong for FF [cted] 
[17:05] <bspencer> urgent that the apps have i18n support, true?
[17:06] <bspencer> moderately urgent that the list is not posted
[17:06] <lool> bspencer: Well the later the apps have i18n support, the less time there is to do and test the translations
[17:06] <lool> bspencer: That's true
[17:06] <bspencer> there's really only two that are pending:  marquee and mobile-basic-flash
[17:06] <lool> [topic] (GrueMaster) update #215242 to request enabling of alsa in helix builds (or a dependency on oss support in alsa)
[17:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  (GrueMaster) update #215242 to request enabling of alsa in helix builds (or a dependency on oss support in alsa) 
[17:06] <lool> bspencer: Ok; then that's good; please document them in the wiki
[17:07] <lool> bspencer: Just wanted to let you know that i18n is urgent
[17:07] <lool> And not documentation of it, I agree
[17:07] <lool> GrueMaster: Hey, so how did this went?
[17:08] <lool> Is GrueMaster around?
[17:08] <lool> Someone physically near GrueMaster could poke him?
[17:08]  * agoliveira looks around...
[17:08] <GrueMaster> Oops, sorry, I'm back
[17:08] <lool> No problem
[17:09] <lool> GrueMaster: So we were checking for updates on that bug work we discussed last week
[17:09] <GrueMaster> I've been tied up with video driver drops.
[17:09] <lool> So no progress on this one?
[17:10] <GrueMaster> I'm not really sure what to check for that may have gotten dropped, but it looks like alsa-utils was dropped (which would cause this).
[17:10] <lool> This is the next topic
[17:10] <lool> This topic/action was about asking for the helix build to enable alsa because it's 2008 and we want to use ALSA
[17:10] <StevenK> Which has been fixed.
[17:10] <GrueMaster> Well, they tie together then.
[17:10] <lool> StevenK: So this is fixed in helix?
[17:10] <StevenK> No.
[17:10] <lool> StevenK: Then wait for the next topic :)
[17:10] <StevenK> ubuntu-mobile now seeds alsa-utils directly.
[17:11] <lool> StevenK: I've seen the change and I've added alsa-base too
[17:11] <lool> StevenK: And added the same comments as for desktop-common
[17:11] <lool> But this is the next topic
[17:11] <GrueMaster> I don't recall my bug being specific to Helix, just used Helix as a reference.
[17:11] <lool> So, it remains to be done to build helix against alsa, does everybody agree?
[17:11] <StevenK> Er, really?
[17:12] <lool> GrueMaster: Well what we discussed last week was that they are two bugs and that one is to please build helix against alsa and the other is to please pull alsa as it helps oss apps
[17:12] <davidm> We can't build it, perhaps Intel can
[17:12] <GrueMaster> I can't build helix either.
[17:12] <lool> GrueMaster: So who builds the helix for which you reported it was using alsa?
[17:13] <StevenK> Which bit of helix wants to be built against alsa?
[17:13] <lool> err OSS
[17:13] <lool> instead of alsa
[17:13] <mawhalen> Is this a bug logged into the helixcommunity?
[17:13] <lool> GrueMaster: You said helix wasn't working because it was trying to use oss and we should be pulling alsa to make this work; I replied that we should perhaps pull alsa (next topic) but that helix had to be built with alsa support
[17:13] <lool> mawhalen: No, in Launchpad
[17:14] <mawhalen> sorry - just joining, what's the number?
[17:14] <lool> Well the current bug doesn't state this
[17:14] <StevenK> Perhaps Helix is linked with alsa and it didn't work because it wasn't installed?
[17:14] <lool> the topic is #
[17:14] <lool> the topic is (GrueMaster) update #215242 to request enabling of alsa in helix builds (or a dependency on oss support in alsa)
[17:14] <lool> But #215242 currently requests addition of alsa compat, not building helix with alsa support
[17:15] <lool> Which is why we set an action item to change it in this way last week
[17:15] <GrueMaster> I discussed that here with my boss, and he agreed that it didn't make sence to split the bug up.  I would end up tracking every app not compiled against alsa.
[17:15] <GrueMaster> The way it reads is fine, it's been addressed in the next topic, it's done.
[17:15] <lool> Uh I don't want to ship apps using OSS if they can use ALSA, no
[17:16] <GrueMaster> I don't have time to hunt down each app that doesn't use alsa.
[17:16] <persia> Still good to report all those discovered, and find the remainders over time.
[17:16] <lool> We're not asking you to go hunt them down, you mentionned alsa support wasn't enabled in helix and I asked you to please report it
[17:17] <GrueMaster> Here's the text of the bug:  Sometime between 20080228 and 20080402, alsa-base package was no longer installed. This package contains a modprobe.d configuration file that auto-installs oss emulation drivers, along with power management support for alsa. The oss emulation is needed by some applications, including helix/realplayer for audio support.
[17:17] <lool> Yes, that's one issue, I agree; it's the next topic which we already covered here in fact, and it has bene addressed and is closed
[17:18] <lool> But this led us to discover another issue since you claimed helix had alsa support which wasn't turned on
[17:18] <lool> And this ought to be fixed too
[17:18] <GrueMaster> I never said helix had alsa support.
[17:18] <GrueMaster> As a matter of fact, I'm not even sure that Flash has alsa support.
[17:19] <agoliveira> GrueMaster: AFAIK, flash does
[17:20] <tonyespy> helix supports alsa, but it has to be turned on in the build
[17:20] <GrueMaster> Well, my point was to justify the need for oss emulation, not fix non-alsa applications.
[17:20] <lool> GrueMaster: You said two weeks ago:
[17:20] <lool> [18:24:55] <GrueMaster> Well, in my opinion, it should be built with alsa support. alsa provides audio duplexing, which oss did not.
[17:20] <lool> See http://blackbird.kaarsemaker.net/mootbot/meeting/ubuntu-mobile.log.20080410_1801.html#11
[17:21] <GrueMaster> True, but like I also said, I don't have time to track every app that doesn't support alsa.
[17:22] <GrueMaster> And my time here is limited.
[17:22] <lool> So we're going in loop here; you discovered a bug (helix is not built with alsa support) but you are not interested in reporting it because there is a workaround and you don't want to spend any more time on it, correct?
[17:23] <GrueMaster> no.  I found a bug (some apps that need oss support aren't getting it due to missing alsa-base), and that has been fixed.
[17:23] <GrueMaster> Again, I used the build of helix I had as an example.  For all I know, it works properly now.
[17:23] <lool> So what exactly did you intend to say when you wrote "it should be built with alsa support."?
[17:24] <landley> lool: is there any way to get the logs like that linked from the meeting page on the wiki?
[17:24] <landley> The minutes it does link to are very terse, no actual discussion.
[17:24] <lool> landley: They should be; please check with davidm after the meeting why not; I think he copies them to another place
[17:24] <GrueMaster> AFAIR, it was mentioned that it could be built with alsa support, hence my comment.
[17:24] <lool> landley: ?
[17:25] <landley> The ones he puts up look like http://people.ubuntu.com/~davidm/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.20080410_1801.html
[17:25] <lool> So I don't see any useful discussion on this topic anymore and I'll close it and move on to the next topic which should be covered pretty fast
[17:25] <lool> landley: Let us discuss this after the meeting or at the end in a new topic
[17:25] <landley> ok
[17:25] <lool> [topic] (GrueMaster) file new bug requesting addition of alsa-base to the seeds with the rationale of the power management features it provides
[17:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  (GrueMaster) file new bug requesting addition of alsa-base to the seeds with the rationale of the power management features it provides 
[17:25] <lool> So GrueMaster didn't particularly file a new bug as covered in the previous discussion
[17:25] <GrueMaster> At any rater, that was what, 2 weeks ago?  The bug I reported has been fixed.  I haven't had time to file a bug against helix needing alsa support, I'm busy filing internal bugs against it here.
[17:26] <lool> However StevenK added alsa-utils and I added alsa-base after a discussion with ChickenCutlass 
[17:26] <lool> With the same rationale/comments as for the desktop-common seed
[17:26] <lool> I'll mark GrueMaster's original bug as fix committed after the meeting
[17:26] <lool> Moving on to the next topic
[17:26] <GrueMaster> THANKS!
[17:26] <lool> [topic] (ToddBrandt and lool) workshop on solving dependency issues in ppa
[17:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  (ToddBrandt and lool) workshop on solving dependency issues in ppa 
[17:27] <ToddBrandt> lool: yea sorry I didn't get back to you on that, I've had some fires to fight
[17:27] <lool> ToddBrandt: So I mailed you to ask about your availabilities, but perhaps my written explanations were enough?
[17:27] <ToddBrandt> lool: actually yea, email should be fine
[17:27] <lool> If my email is a good enough cheat sheet, then let's close this
[17:28] <lool> Ok; we're done with last weeks items
[17:28] <lool> I'm refreshing the wiki page, but I don't see any current item for this week
[17:29] <lool> Does anyone have any item to discuss today which is or isn't in the wiki page?
[17:29] <lool> I don't see any on a fresh reload
[17:29] <lool> landley: So let's discuss that log thing
[17:29] <lool> [topic] IRC meetings logs
[17:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  IRC meetings logs 
[17:29] <agoliveira> Maybe poke Intel about UDS, again? ;)
[17:29] <lool> landley: In the past, the wiki pages would link to the mootbot logs directly (like I didà
[17:29]  * agoliveira ducks
[17:30] <lool> But this was unreliable
[17:30] <lool> landley: So davidm now copies them over to his people.ubuntu.com pages and links to that
[17:30] <davidm> There are two pages there for each meeting
[17:30] <lool> landley: If you find that he doesn't copy in a suitable way, could you drop him an email explaining what's missing?
[17:30] <bspencer> are you talking about this meeting?
[17:30] <lool> Yes
[17:31] <bspencer> I added a link from the main page too
[17:31] <davidm> The upper level summery page and a drill down page that contains the complete IRC log
[17:31] <bspencer> I always have a problem finding the mintues
[17:31] <lool> davidm: Could both pages be linked from the wiki pages?
[17:31] <bspencer> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/  -- now has a "Weekly meeting minutes" link.
[17:32] <davidm> bspencer, I edit every meeting wiki page by the next week and add a link to that weeks logs, it's at the bottom of the page
[17:32] <landley> lool: I'll take it up with david offline.
[17:32] <persia> davidm: There seems to be a missing 's' in the mootbot links: specifically ".../meeting/..." vs ".../meetings/..."
[17:33] <davidm> With the release of Hardy it's slow
[17:33] <lool> persia: Confirmed
[17:33] <davidm> Whoops, that was a typo, I'll edit the messed up pages again.
[17:33] <lool> davidm: http://people.ubuntu.com/~davidm/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.20080417_1800.html for example, if you click on the left on any link, it's broken
[17:33] <lool> Ok, topic done?
[17:33] <lool> [topic] Intel UDS attendance
[17:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  Intel UDS attendance 
[17:33] <davidm> Give me an action for to fix links
[17:33] <lool> Any news here?
[17:34] <bspencer> lool:  Q about xul 1.9 (after current topic)
[17:34] <lool> [action] (davidm) fix links in IRC logs
[17:34] <MootBot> ACTION received:  (davidm) fix links in IRC logs 
[17:34] <lool> bspencer: ack
[17:34] <lool> So did anyone from Intel confirmed coming?
[17:34] <lool> It's in less than a month now :)
[17:34] <bspencer> for UDS, I have no update.  Waiting for direction from above.  I would /love/ to come
[17:34] <lool> I would love that you come too
[17:34] <davidm> I have a confirmation that John Cheery will attend.
[17:34] <bspencer> xoxo
[17:35] <bspencer> Cherry
[17:35] <davidm> s/Cheery/Cherry
[17:35] <agoliveira> Is he a cheery chery? 
[17:35] <davidm> I am just full of typo's today
[17:35] <bspencer> he's a happy guy, to be certain
[17:35] <agoliveira> :-D
[17:35] <lool> Ok; well please keep us up-to-date on attendance
[17:36] <lool> agoliveira: Let's revisit next week etc.
[17:36] <bspencer> topic #2 (after xul) :  netbook / eeePC for MIC
[17:36] <lool> [topic] mobile-basic-flash XUL 1.9 port
[17:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-basic-flash XUL 1.9 port 
[17:36] <agoliveira> lool: Fine. I love poke Intel people ;)
[17:36] <bspencer> lool: what is the intention for moving to 1.9?
[17:36] <bspencer> is that something you will do for UME release?
[17:37] <agoliveira> lool: But you'll have to poke them or me, I'll be on holiday.
[17:37] <bspencer> I see 1.8 in hardy now
[17:37] <lool> bspencer: xul 1.9 and xul are very similar code bases, but we didn't want to maintain both for the hardy timeframe
[17:37] <lool> (security etc.)
[17:37] <lool> It's a huge amount of duplicated work
[17:37] <bspencer> right.  makes sense
[17:37] <lool> So all xul apps (in main) were built against xul 1.9
[17:37] <lool> To have mobile-basic-flash in main, we need it to be built with xul 1.9
[17:37] <bspencer> hm.  I updated to hardy and found xuldev 1.8 ?
[17:37] <lool> Hence the patch you saw, but it broke the display completely
[17:38] <lool> So we reverted
[17:38] <lool> bspencer: In universe
[17:38] <lool> libxul-dev | 1.8.1.13+nobinonly-0ubuntu1 | hardy/universe | all
[17:38] <lool> xulrunner-1.9-dev | 1.9~b5+nobinonly-0ubuntu3 |         hardy | amd64, i386
[17:38] <bspencer> you reverted xul because of m-b-f ?
[17:38] <bspencer> ah
[17:38] <lool> No, we reverted the port because of m-b-f
[17:38] <bspencer> whew
[17:38] <lool> So m-b-f still uses 1.8 right now, and should move to 1.9 ASAP
[17:39] <lool> But it can't enter main
[17:39] <bspencer> ok.  sure.
[17:39] <lool> Which is the place where it's security supported and ends up in language packs by default
[17:39] <lool> So this "needs more work" and is desirable
[17:39] <lool> It was critical
[17:39] <bspencer> got it.   We'll work on it
[17:40] <lool> [topic] netbook / eeePC for MIC
[17:40] <MootBot> New Topic:  netbook / eeePC for MIC 
[17:40] <lool> bspencer: ^
[17:40] <bspencer> yeah, a growing number of people asking if they can build eee images
[17:40] <bspencer> I think it would be cool, though needs some planning to do it
[17:40] <agoliveira> bspencer: The UDS is a great place for that, you know? ;)
[17:41] <GrueMaster> the McCaslin image "should" work.  It's the same chipset and video.
[17:41] <lool> Yeah, there are these people asking for ARM images too, quite many of them
[17:41] <lool> We should do something for all these folks
[17:41] <bspencer> hm, I thought Pentium M != mccaslin.  Shows what I know.
[17:41]  * agoliveira looks for stones coming from western USA direction...
[17:41] <persia> To get images for other mccaslin devices, it's mostly a matter of adjusting defaults from the q1u settings currently in place.
[17:41]  * bspencer has seen that acronym somewhere before, but can't recall where.
[17:42] <lool> We had some conversations around here in the Lexington office and I think we're losing a huge amount of resources (machine and human) to build x flavors of x platforms with x fsets
[17:42] <bspencer> well, perhaps we should create a dup of McCaslin platform and call it "eeePC" for those interested
[17:42] <lool> Instead, I think we could have a big generic flavor and do the stripped down builds less regularly
[17:43] <GrueMaster> bspencer:  Eee uses Celeron M.  Same as Pentium M w/o cache.
[17:43] <lool> This flavor could work slightly more slowly, and detect stuff on boot, like some sort of live CD
[17:43]  * persia likes that idea: makes support for new devices easy
[17:43] <bspencer> lool: and auto-detect kernel configs?  
[17:44] <lool> So I'm happy if some people work on this; I'd like to put some time into it, but it's not top priority evidently
[17:44] <bspencer> different platforms require different kernels, true?
[17:44] <GrueMaster> What's to detect?  It has a 915M video chipset.  Only thing "radically" different is no touch screen.
[17:44] <lool> bspencer: We have a generic kernel for all Ubuntu PCs
[17:44] <lool> bspencer: This should be possible for MIDs too
[17:44] <GrueMaster> All x86 kernels should run on the latest x86 procs.
[17:44] <lool> GrueMaster: The video config in xorg has to be detected
[17:44] <lool> It currently doesn't work in vmware, qemu etc. or on an eeepc or other mids
[17:45] <persia> Detection targets: available devices, input info, X config, keymap, etc.
[17:45] <lool> What persia said :)
[17:45] <GrueMaster> why?  Q1U and Eee PC have the same driver.
[17:45] <bspencer> GrueMaster: I think they are talking in general about MIC
[17:45] <bspencer> and why we have multiple platforms at all.
[17:45] <lool> There are also touchpad settings in the xorg.conf
[17:45] <persia> GrueMaster: Same driver, but different configurations.  I use a SR8, which is much more similar to a Q1U than an Eee, but there are still things odd about it from the Q1U images.
[17:45] <lool> bspencer: Also
[17:45] <lool> bspencer: Yes
[17:46] <GrueMaster> ah
[17:46] <lool> So this is all an interesting topic; I would be happy if we could provide this to the community
[17:46] <bspencer> I think we should 
[17:46] <lool> I'm not tempted to [action] any of it though, unless someone from the community wants to take it
[17:47]  * agoliveira looks at his dismantled eeePC motherboard wating for a soldering job.
[17:47]  * landley is interested in booting an ubuntu-mobile image under qemu.
[17:47] <bspencer> and make it clear that they can -- although we will get inundated with "help" 
[17:47] <lool> But please work on this as your priorities permit and report back here or on the mailing list
[17:47] <lool> It would help a huge amount of people
[17:47] <landley> If there are existing instructions on how to do that, I missed them.
[17:47] <GrueMaster> Getting the image to boot under quemu, Virtual Box, etc, would be a big bonus for development.
[17:47] <lool> landley: I think we have been happy to help people on the mailing list or on IRC here to make progress on this
[17:48] <lool> But the ideas of running on eeepc or in virtual envs has been around for months
[17:48] <davidm> landley, very happy to help on mailing lists and IRC, though right now mailing list is better.
[17:48] <lool> Okay; topic done?
[17:48] <lool> Any other topic?
[17:48] <landley> davidm: I'll ask on the list then.
[17:49] <lool> Cool, we're still in the < 1 hour envelope
[17:49] <davidm> landley, great
[17:49] <lool> So thanks everybody for participating, have fun
[17:49] <lool> #endmeeting
[17:49] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:49.
[17:50] <bspencer> wiki.ubuntu.com is so slow
[17:50] <StevenK> bspencer: It's release day
[17:51] <bspencer> btw, launchpad is painfully slow.  I'm not a cursing man, but if I were, using launchpad would give me much practice.
[17:51] <agoliveira> bspencer: Everything that's related to ubuntu is slow today due the release
[17:51] <inuka_desk> ping lool
[17:51] <bspencer> agoliveira: ah.
[17:51] <persia> It will likely stay slow through the weekend, and be back to normal on Monday or so.
[17:52] <agoliveira> bspencer: The local mirror here, which is the state's capital and has a quite hefty pipe is being hammered down very hard. I can't gewt more than 20K/s from it.
[17:52] <agoliveira> persia: Indeed
[17:52] <davidm> landley, the URL links in the log have been fixed
[17:53] <lool> inuka_desk: pong
[17:54] <lool> inuka_desk: Make sure you put my name in front of your pings like "lool: foobar", and try to provide a question with the ping to allow me the grace to go back to you with an answer
[17:54] <lool> inuka_desk: Thanks :)
[17:54] <inuka_desk> lool: for the mailing list...  how about moblin-announce@moblin.org?
[17:55] <lool> inuka_desk: I would suggest to keep that name for important announcements like 'Moblin 2.0 development begins', and use a more classical name
[17:55] <lool> Like ftp-release@ or releases@ or ftp-release-list@ or taballs@ or moblin-tarballs@
[17:55] <inuka_desk> lool: what would you sugest?
[17:55] <landley> davidm: thanks.
[17:56] <lool> GNOME To: FTP Releases <ftp-release-list@gnome.org>
[17:56]  * landley has much backscroll reading to do.
[17:56] <lool> FreeDesktop To: ftp-release@lists.freedesktop.org
[17:56] <lool> Etc
[17:56] <inuka_desk> lool: thanks just wanted to make sure it was consistant with standard open source projects
[17:56] <landley> What _is_ the relationship between moblin and ubuntu mobile?
[17:57]  * landley can't keep all the distros straight.
[17:57] <landley> Openmoko, buildroot, gentoo embedded...
[17:57] <lool> inuka_desk: There's no strong standard for ftp release lists, but announce is usually very low traffic huge announcements
[17:58] <lool> landley: At least one side of moblin is to provide upstream software
[17:58] <lool> While UME is about distributing stuff
[17:58] <landley> Such as?
[17:58] <lool> moblin-image-creator, moblin-media, midbrowser
[17:58] <landley> upstream software such as?
[17:58] <landley> ok
[18:02] <lool> inuka_desk: mobile-basic-flash was removed from the PPA this morning because we had to output the build and this was masking the working version from hardy (the version in ppa didn't work I guess because of xul 1.9)
[18:21] <StevenK> lool: No, that isn't it.
[18:22] <lool> StevenK: Whatever it is, tell inuka_desk so that he knows please
[18:23] <StevenK> Well, I removed 0.43 because it didn't have icons for Media, Photos and did wierd things with the applets
[18:23] <StevenK> 0.44 got in the way
[18:24] <lool> inuka_desk: ^
[18:24] <lool> inuka_desk: We'll revisit this after today's beta release
[18:24] <inuka_desk> lool: what package is this?
[18:24] <inuka_desk> lool: moblie-basic-flash
[18:24] <lool> Yes
[18:25] <inuka_desk> lool: does bob know this as well. He is the one who wanted me to update
[18:25] <StevenK> inuka_desk: moblin-media doesn't run
[18:25] <StevenK>   File "/usr/share/moblin-media/thumbnail_creator.py", line 90, in _writeFile
[18:25] <StevenK>     outfile = open(constant.BAD_THUMBNAIL_FILE, 'w')
[18:25] <StevenK> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/root/.moblin-media/thumbnails/bad_thumbnails.txt'
[18:25] <StevenK> If I make that directory, then I get:
[18:25] <lool> inuka_desk: About the removal?  I don't think so; please tell him, but I've been in touch with Bob about the xul 1.9 issue, perhaps he meant that
[18:26] <StevenK>     self.ltgray = self.area.get_colormap().alloc_color(COLOR_LTGRAY)
[18:26] <StevenK> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'alloc_color'
[18:26] <inuka_desk> ping, bspencer 
[18:26] <bspencer> inuka_desk: 
[18:27] <inuka_desk> bpsencer^ were you aware?
[18:28] <bspencer> inuka_desk: 0.44 failed to build for lpia -- I assumed 0.43 was still in PPA.  I'm in a mtg, but will try to resolve this today
[18:28] <StevenK> No, 0.43 was removed by me
[18:28] <bspencer> StevenK:  ok.  So we have 0.34 now?
[18:28] <inuka_desk> bspencer: oh ok
[18:28] <StevenK> 0.34 that calls itself 0.36, yes
[18:28] <bspencer> 0.36... got it
[18:29] <StevenK> But it's 0.34, yeah :-)
[18:29] <bspencer> oh.  :)
[18:29] <bspencer> ok.  I'll figure out why 0.44 failed to build.
[18:29] <bspencer> inuka_desk: did you notice that horace added dependencies?
[18:29] <bspencer> inuka_desk: for xml parsing
[18:29] <StevenK> inuka_desk: Any idea about moblin-media?
[18:29] <bspencer> inuka_desk:  did you do the packaging?  How did you determine what the packaging should look like?
[18:30] <inuka_desk> StevenK: I am not sure let me take a look
[18:30] <bspencer> inuka_desk: StevenK   HappyCamp recentlhy updated moblin-media.  
[18:30] <bspencer> HappyCamp_ubuntu:  HappyCamp   could you be the cause of ^^  ?
[18:30] <StevenK> bspencer: In the PPA?
[18:30] <inuka_desk> bspencer: Ahh it uses the updated packaging that could possibly the issue.
[18:31] <bspencer> inuka_desk:  we added a new dependency between 0.43 and 0.44 for xml.  You'll have to look in configure.ac for details
[18:31] <persia> inuka_desk: You can grab a 0.43 with the FTBFS fix from https://launchpad.net/~persia/+archive for your next 0.44 (or higher).
[18:32] <jah_dread> What kind of products is UbuntuMobile intended for? Is it more like hanheld "computers" or ordinary mobilephones?
[18:32] <HappyCamp_ubuntu> StevenK: moblin-media is in a state of flux right now
[18:32] <HappyCamp_ubuntu> The gaston branch is relatively stable
[18:32] <lool> persia: Or the superseded upload from the ppa directly, no?
[18:33] <lool> Isn't the gaston branch only for packaging?
[18:33] <persia> lool: I thought that was deleted
[18:33] <StevenK> HappyCamp_ubuntu: The gaston branch isn't in the PPA, inuka_desk uploaded 0.51
[18:33] <lool> persia: I thought so too until this morning :)
[18:33]  * persia goes to bed to avoid more lapses of judgement
[18:33] <lool> persia: You can use the "superseded" drown down near "search"
[18:33] <inuka_desk> HappyCamp: what version do you want in the PPA
[18:33] <HappyCamp_ubuntu> Well then it is in a state of flux right now.
[18:33] <inuka_desk> bspencer: thanks I will update...
[18:33] <lool> persia: *drop down
[18:33] <lool> I'm drown down
[18:33] <inuka_desk> HappyCamp_ubuntu: so do you want to leave it broken
[18:34] <HappyCamp_ubuntu> At the moment yes
[18:35] <inuka_desk> HappyCamp_ubuntu: in the PPA, StevenK: FYI
[18:35] <agoliveira> jah_dread: It's for MIDs. Please check the FAQ.
[18:35] <davidm> HappyCamp, why is a broken package in the PPA?
[18:35] <davidm> HappyCamp_ubuntu, , why is a broken package in the PPA?
[18:35] <HappyCamp_ubuntu> Because it is
[18:36] <HappyCamp_ubuntu> First I heard it was broken
[19:20] <HappyCamp_ubuntu> inuka_desk: ping, can you put latest moblin-media into ppa?
[19:21] <bspencer> HappyCamp_ubuntu: have you built a hardy based image and tried the latest moblin-media?
[19:21] <HappyCamp_ubuntu> bspencer: why?
[19:21] <bspencer> so you don't push another broken moblin-media 
[19:22] <HappyCamp_ubuntu> Nope
[19:22] <bspencer> I recommend it :)
[19:22] <HappyCamp_ubuntu> I tested it on my system and it works.  I feel good.
[19:23] <inuka_desk> HappyCamp_ubuntu: If you have permissions you can use the instructions I e-mailed yesterday. 
[19:23] <HappyCamp_ubuntu> inuka_desk: I don't have permissions
[19:23] <inuka_desk> HappyCamp_ubuntu: Is there a release tag on it?
[19:24] <HappyCamp> inuka_desk, RELEASE_0.52
[19:24] <inuka_desk> HappyCampL ok
[19:25] <landley> What does PPA stand for, anyway?
[19:26] <cprov> landley: Personal Package Archive.
[19:28] <lool> HappyCamp: Please test packages in their target environment
[19:28] <lool> HappyCamp: If you upload to Ubuntu, test under Ubuntu, if you upload for ppa, test with hardy + ppa image-creator etc.
[19:28] <landley> Ok, what _is_ PPA?
[19:29] <lool> landley: This https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/+archive
[19:29] <landley> The debian local package cache on your machine?
[19:29] <lool> landley: A place where we put the packages for the ubuntu-mobile team
[19:29] <landley> Where does "personal" come in?
[19:29] <lool> Because it's a per person or team archive
[19:29] <lool> I have a ~lool ppa
[19:30] <landley> Ah.  A launchpad thing.
[19:30] <landley> For the ubuntu-mobile user account.
[19:30] <landley> Ok.
[19:30] <lool> voila
[19:30] <landley> Nope, there's no ~landley on that server, and I have an account on launchpad...
[19:31] <landley> It's not _that_ simple...
[19:31] <lool> landley: You have to enable it
[19:37] <davidm> landley, http://people.ubuntu.com/~davidm/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.20080417_1800.html is fixed. Links work
[19:40] <landley> Davidm: yay.  Thanks.
[19:41] <davidm> Sorry my bad, I left an "s" of a path when I ran a sed command
[19:48] <HappyCamp> bspencer, why aren't you on #moblin?
[19:54] <inuka_desk> HappyCamp, any debian script changes, I am assuming none
[19:56] <HappyCamp> inuka_desk, none
[19:56] <inuka_desk> HappyCamp, thanks
[22:10] <smagoun> persia: can you give me an update on your updater work? I have a build next tues and I'd like to include anything you have ready
[22:54] <lool> persia: Hmm I didn't forward your update to smagoun, just to patm; will forward to smagoun too now