[00:38] <ScottK> laga: I asked slangasek, but never got an answer on myth-control-center
[00:39] <slangasek> ScottK: hi, what was the question?  I seem to have misplaced it in the flood
[00:40] <ScottK> slangasek: You have (had last I looked) myth-control-center sitting in unapproved for the release pocket
[00:40] <slangasek> correct
[00:40] <ScottK> What I suggested was how about if you reject that and then some mythbuntu person re-uploads to -proposed.
[00:41] <ScottK> I gather they need it.
[00:41] <slangasek> ah, did I not ack that?  yes, please
[00:41] <ScottK> laga: ^^^
[00:41] <ScottK> Go for it.
[00:41] <ScottK> It's possible I missed the ack too.
[00:42]  * ScottK was sitting in a rare $WORK meeting where he had internet access and may have been distracted.
[00:45] <jdong> ScottK: do you want to accept that last upload you wanted me to do?
[00:45] <jdong> the quodlibet one
[00:46] <ScottK> It's accepted IIRC.
[00:46] <jdong> oh nvm then :D
[00:47] <Danikar> probably total noob like question, but what is ack?
[00:48] <jdong> ACKnowledged
[00:48] <ScottK> Short for Acknowledge
[00:49] <Danikar> Ah ok, that makes all sorts of sense now.
[01:18] <superm1> slangasek, re "<ScottK> What I suggested was how about if you reject that and then some mythbuntu person re-uploads to -proposed.", i just uploaded it to proposed too
[01:18] <slangasek> superm1: ok, cheers
[01:19] <slangasek> superm1: you're not expecting it to be approved through before release, right? :)
[01:19] <superm1> slangasek, well i guess this is the reason we have the option of using a PPA in our build system :)  that will be fine.  i'll push it through the ppa for now and then shortly after release hopefully it can clear -proposed and -updates
[01:20] <slangasek> ok
[02:44] <LaserJock> evening everybody
[02:46] <ScottK2> Evening.
[02:46] <ScottK2> LaserJock: You're on motu-sru, right?
[02:46] <LaserJock> yep
[02:46] <LaserJock> want me to look at something?
[02:46] <ScottK2> Last release motu-release (because there was no motu-sru) suspended the must in the development release first rule and got people moving early on SRUs.
[02:47] <ScottK2> I'm figuring that's out of scope for use this time.
[02:47] <LaserJock> suspended the what?
[02:47] <ScottK2> I recommend it and would encourage motu-sru to conspire and make an early announcment.
[02:47] <ScottK2> The rule that you have to fix something in the development release before you do the SRU.
[02:48] <LaserJock> ohhh, right
[02:48] <ScottK2> Since there is no development repository right now.
[02:48] <LaserJock> I'm not very fond of that rule
[02:48] <ScottK2> I mentioned this to jdong last night too.
[02:48] <gnomefreak> was the nvidia 5200 and 5500 drivers changed from nvidia-glx-new to -glx?
[02:48] <LaserJock> it's a good idea, but often doesn't really help the quality of the SRUs particularly
[02:48] <slangasek> I would think it's a good general policy anyway to avoid accidentally regressing again in the /next/ release...
[02:49] <ScottK2> Agreed.
[02:49] <ScottK2> It worked out last time for getting started early.
[02:50] <ScottK2> Although I think that most of our preventable regressions come from incompletely documented merges and then some Ubuntu specific change gets dropped.
[02:50] <LaserJock> well, it would make more sense to me if we did more new upstream releases in -updates
[02:51] <ScottK2> There's a rule for that too.
[02:51] <ajmitch> hello
[02:51] <ScottK2> LaserJock: In that case, you might want to look into Bug 220723
[02:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 220723 in wesnoth "Please sync wesnoth 1:1.4.1-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220723
[02:51] <ScottK2> ajmitch: Hello.
[02:51] <LaserJock> but often times the code in the devel release is very different than in the stable release so requiring a fix in the devel release first is just a way of making sure we're getting things fixed in the devel release
[02:52] <ScottK2> ajmitch: Thanks again for the RC bug page.
[02:52] <LaserJock> which is all good, but not something we should really block on, IMO
[02:52] <ajmitch> ScottK2: I hope it was useful
[02:52] <ScottK2> ajmitch: It was.
[02:52] <ajmitch> I'd like to keep it on hardy for awhile, and have another page for intrepid
[02:52] <ScottK2> I wish we'd had more QA effort in Universe for Hardy, but RC bugs page was a key part of what we got done.
[02:52] <ScottK2> Sounds smart.
[02:53] <ScottK2> LaserJock: Then you need some process for knowing the problem is still open in the developmental release.
[02:54] <LaserJock> ScottK: like a bug report?
[02:54] <ajmitch> #ubuntu-release-party is interesting today
[02:54] <LaserJock> like how hard is it to just leave the main task open on a bug and just close stable release tasks for SRUs?
[02:55] <LaserJock> I don't see why we necessarily have to have a fix in the devel release for a fix to get into a stable release
[02:55] <ScottK2> LaserJock: That'd work.  I'm just saying someone needs to champion changing the process.
[02:55] <crimsun> well, is there concise documentation on what combination of Severity and tasks constitute SRU fixes?
[02:55] <LaserJock> nope
[02:55] <crimsun> last I checked in -devel, there was discrepancy
[02:56] <LaserJock> the only real documentation I have is that it needs to be "very important", already fixed in the devel release, and "minimal"
[02:56] <LaserJock> "minimal" is for the fix, not the bug
[02:57] <LaserJock> ScottK2: you do -backports some don't you?
[02:58] <ScottK2> Yes
[02:58] <LaserJock> what's your feeling on people trying to get stuff into -backports to fix bugs?
[02:58] <LaserJock> rather than just trying to get latest crack
[02:59] <jdong> LaserJock: I see no reason to discourage it personally though I don't want it to be an execuse not to do a proper SRU
[02:59] <jdong> which is what happened when Backports DID allow SRU-like fixes
[02:59] <jdong> i.e. backporting 1.2.3-15 to 1.2.3-9
[03:00] <ScottK2> LaserJock: I generally wont fix requests to fix SRU bugs.
[03:00] <LaserJock> I personally feel like the SRU process should be such that people aren't trying to get things fixed via -backports
[03:00] <ScottK2> Actually as I understand it the backports charter from the tech board is pretty specific about this.
[03:00] <LaserJock> but how often do you guys get requests for bug fixes?
[03:00] <ScottK2> One of the problems is that developers often recommend it to people.
[03:01] <ScottK2> It's a significant fraction of the requests, but certainly not the majority.
[03:01] <ScottK2> ~10 or 20 percent maybe.
[03:01] <LaserJock> k
[03:01] <ajmitch> ScottK2: it's probably considered as a 'safer' option for getting fixes in
[03:02] <LaserJock> I need to talk with slangasek more, but I think we should be able to come up with a way to deal with those kinds of requests
[03:02] <ajmitch> though you probably just end up with more people unnecessarily enabling backports
[03:02] <jdong> ScottK2: it's more common than that
[03:02] <ScottK2> The "OK to backport" threshold is very low.  Builds/Installs/Runs.
[03:03] <ScottK2> jdong: Probably more common in the desktop ones you tend to deal with.
[03:03] <jdong> ScottK2: and I'm getting feedback from users wanting to file such backports to do SRUs that "they rather not"
[03:03] <jdong> because it's "not gonna happen anyway"
[03:03] <jdong> :-/
[03:03] <ScottK2> I sometime tell them to ask again, but ask for the features in the release and don't mention the bug fixes.
[03:04] <ajmitch> SRUs are seen as having a rather large barrier?
[03:04] <ScottK2> Yes.
[03:04] <ScottK2> Particularly in Main.
[03:05] <ajmitch> I don't think I've ever got an SRU in
[03:05] <LaserJock> I guess I'm particularly interested in how many times we say "we won't fix it" vs. "we can't reasonably fix it"
[03:05] <ScottK2> I've gotten several in Universe.  I don't think I've gotten one in Main.
[03:05] <LaserJock> I got I think 2 or 3 in Main
[03:05] <LaserJock> not sure if I've done any in Universe really
[03:06] <LaserJock> like, this wesnoth bug is interesting to me
[03:07] <ScottK2> I thought you'd like that one.
[03:07] <LaserJock> I don't mind saying things like "we're unable to sufficiently test this update" or something technical
[03:07] <LaserJock> but if it's just "oh, there's a lot there, we better not do it"
[03:08] <LaserJock> well, that just ends up seeming lazy, IMO
[03:08] <crimsun> I think that bug is trivially significant for -proposed->-updates
[03:08] <crimsun> it's all fixes
[03:09] <ScottK2> Modulo dropping debian's packaging changes
[03:09] <LaserJock> yeah
[03:09] <LaserJock> it seems to me that given sufficient testing things like that shouldn't be a problem
[03:09] <ScottK2> LaserJock: So there you go.  Test case for point release SRU.
[03:09] <LaserJock> ScottK: I've already emailed the TB about it
[03:10] <LaserJock> waiting until after release to pick slangasek's brain
[03:10] <ScottK2> It's not like it hasn't happened before.
[03:10] <ScottK2> LaserJock: Go look at the clamav version in dapper-updates.
[03:10] <slangasek> LaserJock: be sure to wait a few days so the cells have a chance to regrow ;)
[03:10] <LaserJock> slangasek: heh, yeah
[03:11] <LaserJock> this may not be the best example, but I've been running Fedora a fair bit recently
[03:12] <jdong> LaserJock: fedora has an EXTREMELY lenient update policy
[03:12] <LaserJock> and their policy is to do new upstream release in preference to backporting fixs
[03:12] <jdong> LaserJock: everything from a typo in a helpfile to OpenOffice or an ABI-incompatible libgpod
[03:12] <jdong> LaserJock: including new kernel releases
[03:12] <LaserJock> yep
[03:12] <jdong> that's a bit scary for us
[03:12] <jdong> IMO.
[03:12] <jdong> at least unless we evolve -backports into -volatile
[03:12] <jdong> which I have no fundamental objection to ;-)
[03:12] <LaserJock> but they're able to keep a reasonably stable OS
[03:13] <jdong> LaserJock: kind of
[03:13] <jdong> LaserJock: users have rioted over things like unison breaking overnight
[03:13] <jdong> LaserJock: and spurious updates too
[03:13] <LaserJock> so if you take Fedora as one extreme
[03:13] <LaserJock> and our current policy as sort of the other
[03:13] <jdong> I don't want 350MB of updates because of a new icon for openoffice
[03:13] <LaserJock> perhaps somewhere in the middle we can find a usable way to provide stable updates to our users
[03:13] <LaserJock> bbiab
[03:16] <ScottK2> This time around we have a .1 release pre-planned a month out.
[03:17] <ScottK2> I'd tend to say be really lenient about bugfix releases and beta or RC to final updates until then.
[03:21] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:21] <ScottK2> Heya bddebian
[03:21] <bddebian> Hi ScottK2
[03:21] <ScottK2> LaserJock: We were a lot more lenient about bugfix releases post FFe this time around and it seemed to work out well.
[03:21] <ScottK2> This is for motu-uvf/release
[03:24] <ScottK2> What's the name of the Gnome gui for apt (adept equivalent)?
[03:25] <bimberi> synaptic
[03:25] <ScottK2> Thanks.
[04:05] <LaserJock> back
[04:05] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[04:05] <LaserJock> hiya bddebian
[04:06] <LaserJock> ScottK2: yeah, maybe something along the lines of letting more things through until .1 would make sense
[04:07]  * ScottK2 didn't volunteer for motu-sru, so good luck with it ;-)
[04:08] <ScottK2> It would end us up with less "You've got an RC in the final release, how awful" kind of comments.
[04:09]  * StevenK could do without those comments for Haryd
[04:09] <StevenK> Hardy
[04:09]  * ScottK2 departs #ubuntu-release-party due to getting dizzy.
[04:09] <crimsun> that bad?
[04:10] <crimsun> nah, just ruffians.
[04:10] <ScottK2> It in combination with averaging about 4 hours of sleep per night for the last about 5 days.
[04:10] <LaserJock> well, I think people generally don't realize how much we change compared to upstream
[04:10] <LaserJock> so if we have an rc version then it must not have the fixes in the final
[04:10] <LaserJock> etc.
[04:10] <ScottK2> Right.
[04:11] <LaserJock> same thing happens with SRUs
[04:11] <LaserJock> i.e. I must have a new upstream version to get upstream bug fixes
[04:11] <ScottK2> I know for Postfix lamont chose to patch 2.5.1 with all the 2.5.2 fixes rather than release with 2.5.2~rc1
[04:12] <LaserJock> right
[04:12] <LaserJock> I guess I just wonder if we need or can get that info to users better
[04:13] <ScottK2> I suspect the ones that most need the information are the least likely to listen.
[04:14] <LaserJock> good point
[04:15] <nixternal> yo yo you freakazoids!
[04:17] <LaserJock> hi nixternal
[04:17] <nixternal> wasabi LaserJock
[04:18] <LaserJock> chillin', discussing SRUs, working on a Fedora 9/Hardy blog post
[04:18]  * nixternal holds back the giggles on F9/Hardly post
[04:18] <nixternal> err, Hardy
[04:18] <LaserJock> got some kick butt data today at work
[04:19] <LaserJock> but of course nobody would understand it if I described it
[04:19] <LaserJock> so I won't
[04:19] <nixternal> ahh thought so :)
[04:19] <LaserJock> it's like being at the CIA
[04:19] <LaserJock> except I don't get the cool shades
[04:20] <ScottK2> More like heavy duty industrial goggles?
[04:20] <LaserJock> yeah, just bought some
[04:20] <LaserJock> $300 a pop
[04:20] <LaserJock> but they're nice
[04:21] <LaserJock> don't look welding goggles from the 80s anymore
[04:22] <miyako> so, I'm a bit confused; does motu do any development on the packages, or just build packages?
[04:22] <LaserJock> development, maintenance
[04:22] <LaserJock> things like that
[04:23] <LaserJock> teaching, sponsoring, reviewing as well
[04:23] <miyako> I've been trying to find a way to contribute more to open source, looking around on launchpad now, but I was a little confused on that point
[04:24] <miyako> since most of what I saw was specific to building/fixing packages
[04:24] <LaserJock> well, that is a lot of what we do
[04:24] <LaserJock> making sure the archive is in good shape
[04:24] <LaserJock> StevenK: ping
[04:24] <StevenK> LaserJock?
[04:26] <miyako> so, if I want to primarily do more on the development side, as opposed to building packages, should I look more toward core (assuming I want to work on ubuntu) then?
[04:28] <LaserJock> miyako: what do you mean by "development"?
[04:28] <miyako> LaserJock: writing code, either adding new features or fixing bugs
[04:28] <LaserJock> ah, I see
[04:29] <LaserJock> since everything ends up in a package it's often a bit difficult to distinguish between code development and package development
[04:29] <LaserJock> well, it kind of depends on what kind of things you want to do
[04:30] <LaserJock> if it's working on specific software for Ubuntu then you might perhaps find a relevant team
[04:30] <LaserJock> for bug fixing you might want to hook up with the Bug Squad
[04:30] <miyako> yeah, what I would really like is to have a specific project or application, something that I can get comfortable with the code base, etc, and work on that, fixing bugs and adding features
[04:31] <miyako> I was originally looking to contribute to things upstream (especially since ubuntu isn't the only distro I use) but I've had really bad luck with that so far
[04:32] <LaserJock> well
[04:32] <LaserJock> do you have any projects you're specifically interested in?
[04:33] <miyako> LaserJock: well, I've thought about it a bit, but I havent gotten any specific programs in mind
[04:33] <ScottK2> miyako: If you're interested in KDE at all, kde4 right now is an interesting mix of packaging brand new stuff, fixing bugs to mature it, and writing new stuff to fill the gaps.
[04:33] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:34] <miyako> ScottK2: hmm, I'm a gnome user, but that might be something to look at anyway; I've done a bit with Qt a couple of years ago
[04:34] <ScottK2> miyako: The best channel for that is #kubuntu-devel (although it's pretty quiet right now).
[04:34] <miyako> I was looking at compiz, upstream, but I found it really hard to get into the codebase and the developers weren't all that helpful
[04:34] <ScottK2> As an example, I'm pretty sure we're missing a qt4/kde4 program to control display brightness.
[04:35] <ScottK2> Kubuntu is very welcoming.
[04:35] <miyako> and I was working on Planeshift, the people were nice, but there was too much structure there, it was like working a second job
[04:36] <ScottK2> Here's it's more about being open to you volunteering the way you want.
[04:36] <ScottK2> You do need to show you know something/are trustworthy before you get upload rights to the archive.
[04:36] <miyako> ScottK2: yeah, that's understandable
[04:36] <nixternal> yo yo!!
[04:37] <nixternal> Kubuntu will rock your socks right off your cousins feet!
[04:37] <miyako> I tried contributing a couple of kernel patches, but you want to talk about an obtuse system to work through to get something accepted
[04:37] <ScottK2> Yep.
[04:37] <ajmitch> nixternal: I even tried kde4 the other day
[04:37] <LaserJock> nixternal: how's Vista going?
[04:37] <nixternal> I haven't run Vista in a couple of months now, so I wouldn't know :)
[04:37] <ajmitch> kde4, vista, same thing
[04:38] <ScottK2> miyako: Even small stuff is welcome.  My first contribution to Kubuntu core development was to get GPG and S/MIME encryption working out of the box with Kmail for Gutsy.
[04:38] <miyako> I got a new laptop that shipped with vista, it never had a chance to boot up
[04:38] <LaserJock> ajmitch: pretty much
[04:39] <miyako> well, back when I fiddled around with KDE4, I did start writing a GUI program to edit containments
[04:39] <nixternal> whose bright idea was it to remove the Epiphany icon from the menus?
[04:40] <ajmitch> remove? I still see mine
[04:40] <nixternal> I just installed Hardy, then installed epiphany-browser and there is no icon under Internet
[04:41]  * ajmitch only has an upgraded system, not a new install
[04:41] <ScottK2> nixternal: We provide you with a proper standards compliant browser when you install.
[04:41]  * ScottK2 has only one server as a new install.
[04:42] <ajmitch> nixternal: you have epiphany-gecko installed, I expect?
[04:42] <LaserJock> anybody  happen to know if libgsf is still libgsf or if it was incorporated into something else?
[04:42] <ScottK2> That one due to a sad story involving me using apt-get dist-upgrade instead of using the official upgrader, a software raid array, and things upgrading in the wrong order.
[04:43] <nixternal> ScottK2: on Firefox sucks, and if I am using Gnome I want Epiphany
[04:43] <LaserJock> uggg
[04:43] <LaserJock> heresy
[04:43] <ScottK2> Ah.  I've never gone down that choice in the logic tree.
[04:43] <ScottK2> I never get to if I have Gnome.
[04:43] <LaserJock> epiphany is from the devil ;-)
[04:43] <nixternal> haha, me either usually
[04:44] <nixternal> Epiphany is love
[04:44]  * ajmitch hugs epiphany
[04:44] <ScottK2> They have Ubuntu at the library, but that's the only place I've ever used it.
[04:45] <LaserJock> for me epiphany does nothing better than firefox and a number of things worse
[04:45] <LaserJock> so ...
[04:45] <nixternal> I just want a fast, non-bloated browser, that will do what I want it to do
[04:45] <bddebian> lynx?
[04:45] <ScottK2> You want mozilla 1.0 then.
[04:46] <LaserJock> firefox 3 is pretty darn fast
[04:46] <nixternal> ahh, I got the icon now, you have to log out of gnome and back in for it to show up
[04:46] <nixternal> isn't that lovely!
[04:46] <ajmitch> no
[04:46] <nixternal> I just had to
[04:46] <nixternal> on a fresh install
[04:46] <ajmitch> that is a bad thing
[04:47] <ScottK2> miyako: In any case feel free to drop in on #kubuntu-devel if you want to get involved in a great project that's open to new contributors.
[04:47]  * ajmitch wonders if anyone else will strike his bug of the desktop disappearing
[04:47] <LaserJock> I can't seem to control my touchpad, that's my latest "what the ..."
[04:48] <ScottK2> I didn't have that, but I learned today that restarting X with ctrl alt backspace while the laptop is connected to an external display doesn't lead to happiness.
[04:50] <bddebian> Though not nearly as welcoming as Debian eh ScottK2? :)
[04:50] <ScottK2> I think they're just mean to you.
[04:51] <bddebian> heh
[04:53] <LaserJock> "quick, everybody get your mean face on, bddebian is coming!"
[04:54] <bddebian> Aye :)
[05:13] <LaserJock> grr, I wonder who decided touchpads need to be able to scroll
[05:14] <TheMuso> People who thought having a dedicated scroll area on the touchpad would be useful.
[05:15] <LaserJock> I guess so
[05:15] <LaserJock> it's so annoying and I can't turn it off :(
[05:15] <TheMuso> I would think you can turn it off.
[05:15] <TheMuso> ah
[05:16] <LaserJock> well, for some reason my touchpad stopped responding to configuration programs
[05:16] <LaserJock> I tried even turning it off in xorg.conf with no luck
[05:16] <TheMuso> Right.
[05:16] <LaserJock> but every time I go to my task bar it keeps jumping through screens
[05:16] <LaserJock> really annoying
[05:17] <LaserJock> s/screens/windows/
[05:55] <dholbach> good morning
[06:02] <ajmitch> hello dholbach :)
[06:02] <dholbach> hi ajmitch :))
[06:02] <dholbach> ready for the celebrations? :)
[06:05] <ajmitch> what are we celebrating?
[06:07] <slangasek> let's celebrate my successful disassembly and reassembly of a new fridge to get it through the door
[06:07] <ajmitch> now that's an achievement
[06:07]  * ajmitch is just glad that there's a rather wide kitchen door at home
[06:07] <StevenK> Haha
[06:10] <StevenK> Estimated build start: in 27 seconds
[06:11] <StevenK> The problem is, it's been saying that for 5 minutes.
[06:12] <ajmitch> something blocked or disabled?
[06:12] <StevenK> I wouldn't know, that's from Launchpad
[06:15]  * ajmitch shrugs
[06:15] <StevenK> Estimated build start: 0 seconds ago
[06:15] <StevenK> You win, Launchpad
[06:15] <ajmitch> I'd better walk home now anyway :)
[06:21] <schweeb> what up MOTUs... I'm back in linux after my ~2 yr hiatus, now that the audio drivers on my new lappy work :P
[06:28] <Iulian> G'morning.
[06:31] <Danikar> morning =)
[06:54] <Legendario> hi, i don't know why but my resulting package is empty
[08:41] <Flawless> Does anybody here have experience with python-central + dh_pycentral ?
[08:41] <Flawless> I'm trying to create a python package, which works well for $PYSHARED/mypackage _except_  for $PYSHARED/mypackage/subfolders
[08:42] <Flawless> When I install my package, only files directly into the mypackage dir in the pycentral-dir will be available in
[08:42] <Flawless> /usr/lib/python2.x/site-packages/mypackage
[08:42] <Flawless> I can't figure out why
[08:42] <Flawless> Do I really need to manually make my package install files in /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/foo/ AND /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/foo/ ?
[08:45] <RAOF> Flawless: You shouldn't.
[08:45] <Flawless> RAOF: And I don't want to :)
[08:45] <Flawless> RAOF: Can you help me avoid it?
[08:45] <RAOF> I mean you shouldn't have to :)
[08:45] <Flawless> agreed :)
[08:45] <Flawless> But it doesn't seem like pycentral works in 7.10
[08:45] <RAOF> My experience with dh_py* has been Just Working, but let's give it a shot :)
[08:46] <Flawless> My experience so far has been "can't make it work for the life of me" :)
[08:49] <Flawless> RAOF: when you used dh_pycentral, where did you install the files in your debian package?
[08:49] <Flawless> I mean, in the DESTDIR. I think that might be the issue
[08:50] <RAOF> LEt me check.
[08:51] <Flawless> thanks
[08:56] <Flawless> RAOF: any luck? :)
[09:00] <RAOF> Flawless: SOrry; distracted :)
[09:00] <Flawless> :)
[09:01] <RAOF> So, this setup.py just puts stuff in python2.5/site-packages
[09:01] <RAOF> Which is probably wrong, now, unless cdbs' python-distutils package has been updated.
[09:03] <Flawless> ok, so I'm not the only one
[09:03] <Flawless> I did figure out the problem, btw
[09:03] <Flawless> I create a multi-binary package from a single source
[09:04] <Flawless> and each package installs things into /usr/share/pycentral/foo/site-packages/foo/
[09:04] <Flawless> which is right
[09:04] <Flawless> files from A are installed and compiled, but files from B are not compiled, because the install script runs "pycentral pkginstall B", but B's files are in A's folder
[09:05] <Flawless> they have to be in A's folder, because the python script searches for them there
[09:27] <Flawless> RAOF: It consistently doesn't work properly. I'm going to have to install into /usr/lib directly
[09:28]  * RAOF shrugs.  I dunno, sorry.
[09:28] <Flawless> thanks though :)
[11:03] <\sh> siretart, thx again for the nice tuesday evening :)
[11:03] <emgent> heya \sh ! :)
[11:04] <\sh> hey emgent
[11:07]  * norsetto doesn't want to know what \sh and siretart did on a nice tuesday evening
[11:08] <\sh> norsetto, having one or two beer and a nice dinner :)
[11:08] <emgent> lol
[11:09] <norsetto> \sh: I thought cigarettes were involved too at some point ;-)
[11:09] <\sh> norsetto, nicotine yes...but that's only me :)
[11:10] <norsetto> \sh: don't let warp10 hear you or he will give you a lecture on it ....
[11:11] <warp10> norsetto: eheh :D
[11:12] <DktrKranz2> norsetto: too late
[11:13] <DktrKranz2> he already did it...
[11:13] <norsetto> \sh: just curious, how do you say in Germany for someone that smoke too much? I know in France they say "smoke like a fireman" and in Italy "smoke like a turk"
[11:13] <siretart> \sh: it was a pleasure to me!
[11:14] <siretart> norsetto: it's "smoke like a chimney"
[11:14] <siretart> in german
[11:14] <norsetto> siretart: makes sense to me :-)
[11:15] <DktrKranz2> italian are racists :)
[11:15] <warp10> norsetto: well, "smoking like a chimney" is common in Italy too :)
[11:16] <slangasek> norsetto: in German, they have no concept of smoking too much ;P
[11:16] <norsetto> slangasek: makes even more sense to me :-)
[11:23] <dholbach> slangasek: wasn't that in Greece? :)
[11:24] <slangasek> dholbach: I don't know, I've never been to Greece, but I have been through Frankfurt airport where people smoke in the terminal under no smoking signs. :)
[11:25] <dholbach> ah... well *shrug* :)
[11:25] <DktrKranz2> we smoke in hospitals, is it worse?
[11:25] <ogra> slangasek, not anymore :(
[11:25] <slangasek> ogra: since when?
[11:25] <ogra> frankfurt is smokefree env now
[11:25] <slangasek> it wasn't a year ago
[11:26] <YokoZar> slangasek: These are the final links and won't change right? ﻿http://torrent.ubuntu.com/releases/hardy/release/
[11:26] <ogra> dunno, last time i flew you couldnt smoke anywhere inside but in a casino where you had to buy a club card first
[11:26] <ogra> about two months ago
[11:27] <norsetto> ogra: I do remember they had some reserved rooms in the lounges
[11:27] <slangasek> YokoZar: I can't say I know much about the structure of torrent.u.c; I just know the .torrent files sit alongside the .iso's everywhere that counts
[11:27] <ogra> they recently changed all german airports to that
[11:27] <ogra> norsetto, well, i live in germany, i rarely have a reason to use a lounge in frankfurt :)
[11:28] <slangasek> YokoZar: that appears to be only the set of torrents corresponding to what's distributed on cdimage.ubuntu.com; but yes, they're not changing further now
[11:28] <norsetto> ogra: why not? Beer is free :-)
[11:29] <YokoZar> slangasek: so the DVD image has been released ;)  Hooray!
[11:38] <ogra> norsetto, ah, well, i'm fine to pay the 3 bucks on the train and actually move forward towards home usually if i hit frankfurt :)
[11:39] <norsetto> ogra: ah, its your home airport :-) Are you in Darmstadt by any chance?
[11:39] <ogra> (3 € for the beer, not the ride indeed :) )
[11:39] <ogra> no, saldy i dont have any home airport
[11:40] <highvoltage> :(
[11:40] <ogra> i live half way between frankfurt and hannover (kassel)
[11:40] <norsetto> ogra: ok
[11:40] <ogra> and my favorite airline sits in cologne sadly
[11:41] <highvoltage> you mean airport?
[11:41] <Fujitsu> Has w.u.c been sacrificed for the release?
[11:42] <highvoltage> the wiki usually takes a hit on release days.it comes and goes, I think it must be getting huge amount of traffic.
[11:43] <\sh> ogra, oh well, train stations and smoking is even worse..
[11:44] <\sh> ogra, they have now yellow lined square somewhere on the platforms it's only 2 squarmeters and it looks like a ghetto
[11:44] <ogra> yeah, i'm waiting for little fences
[11:45] <\sh> ogra, actually is sinnfrei ;)
[11:45] <ogra> so i can scare the train workes with my "beeeeh beeeh"
[11:45] <ogra> *workers
[11:45] <ogra> waering a sheep costume :)
[11:45] <\sh> ogra, colleague of mine had the idea yesterday, to eat a lot of onions and beans to see if smoking disturbes other guests or the beans/onions mixture ,->
[11:47] <ogra> heh
[11:48] <\sh> ogra, anyways...nuernberg -> karlsruhe : departure: 9:27pm  and we reached karlsruhe 2:07am
[11:51] <ogra> fun
[12:19] <sistpoty|work> hi folks
[12:20]  * cody-somerville waves.
[12:20] <cody-somerville> Everyone pumped?! :D
[12:22] <ogra> cody-somerville, have a look in #ubuntu-release-party if you look for pumped ppl :)
[12:24]  * sistpoty|work tries to not ask the question :P
[12:33] <ScottK> sistpoty|work: Thanks for having a good sense of humor about libitpp
[12:34] <sistpoty|work> heh
[12:34] <sistpoty|work> ScottK: thanks for finding out that that was still missing
[12:35] <ScottK> No problem.  Glad it was sub'ed to motu-release so I could.
[12:40] <\sh> I wonder when the behaviour of cluelessness of bug triager stops...
[12:40] <\sh> obviously is counterstrike not a software which is in our archive..but the bug is against wine and a non working wine in combination with CS...
[12:41] <\sh> but setting it to invalid is also wrong
[12:46] <persia> \sh: This is the sort of case that "Won't Fix" was designed to handle.  Making wine fully compatible with counterstrike is beyond the typical role of the distro developer.
[12:47] <sistpoty|work> back in the good old days, cs did work with wine though... (but I didn't test it after 1.5 or so later on, and not with the hl2 engine at least)
[12:47] <\sh> persia, first, we need to identify if it's a regression of wine on ubuntu or in general...so before someone didn't find a clue that ubuntu is not at fault and it's wine package, it can't be set to invalid...
[12:48] <persia> \sh: Hmm.  True.
[12:48] <\sh> persia, and the explanation of this triager is even more andventurous
[12:48] <\sh> "However, it seems that you are not using software (Counterstrike) provided by the official Ubuntu repositories. Because of this the Ubuntu project can not support or fix your particular bug."
[12:49] <\sh> I mean, it's so strange that when using wine you are mostly using software which is in no linux distro archive
[12:49] <persia> That's perhaps a little overconservative, although I can understand how it came to be written.
[12:49] <\sh> persia, it's totally crap
[12:50] <persia> On the other hand, wine is very much a special case (while not an emulator, it is best triaged like one).
[12:50] <persia> \sh: For wine, I agree.  For something like konqueror, I'd be less sure.
[12:51] <sistpoty|work> \sh: maybe you can kindly tell the triager that he was wrong, so that he won't do it next time ;)
[12:51] <\sh> sistpoty|work, honestly I'm sick and tired of those greatful drive-by pros who don't have a clue about the problem at all...I mean, this is not the first time...and it won't be the last time...
[12:51] <ScottK> \sh: That's a standard bugsquad answer.  I've seen it before when someone asked for a lib to be added to ia32 libs so Skype would work.
[12:52] <\sh> if someone doesn't understand the problem of the bug report he should not comment on it and move along
[12:52] <\sh> ScottK, yeah
[12:52] <\sh> ScottK, a drive-by
[12:52] <ScottK> I think that particular issue is a bugsquad policy problem that could be fixed.
[12:52] <\sh> totally useless
[12:52] <ScottK> I think they are doing what they are being told and being told wrong.  You could fix this with bdmurray.
[12:52] <ScottK> See ya.  Gotta run
[12:53] <sistpoty|work> cya ScottK
[12:53] <persia> The trick is describing a policy that works for all cases.  It was appropriate to reject a bug in feisty for automatix, but not for hardy for wine.  Someone has to describe the rules to govern the responses.
[12:54] <\sh> persia, well, I think being a member of bugsquad needs more then just a script and some good rules...
[12:54] <sistpoty|work> persia: imo it's quite easy: "If unsure, don't fiddle with it"
[12:55] <persia> sistpoty|work: I'd agree with that.
[12:55] <\sh> common sense, reading abilities, brain function is not always available, but should be a prerequesite for being a bugsquad member
[12:55] <persia> \sh: It's an open team.  I liked that when I started with triage.  I'm not sure I'd want it to change.  It's about education (as are so many things).
[12:56] <sistpoty|work> maybe bdmurray has some ideas on the topic?
[12:57] <mok0> Is Ubuntu's bittorrent tracker running? Can anyone reach it?
[12:58] <\sh> persia, I agree...but it means also, that people should know to not put their fingers on things, they don't know or have any knowledge at all...so this must be rule 1. with top prio to follow...but as we are dealing with humans, this we can forget...because "i know everything" is quite common nowadays...
[12:59] <persia> \sh: Agreed.  I believe the solution is reviewing and updating the wiki, and experienced people spending more time in #ubuntu-bugs leading the newcomers.
[13:00] <james_w> persia: I'm not sure that there is a lack of the latter, there aren't that many questions asked there.
[13:01] <\sh> persia, oh now I see...a "5 a day" newcomer
[13:01] <james_w> do you think the strategy should change to make it easier to guide newcomers?
[13:01] <persia> james_w: Currently, no, although there once was, and I believe the culture that persisted in #ubuntu-bugs is recovering from the ubotu flood.  My personal belief is that it ought be fairly active again by the end of the next cycle.
[13:02]  * \sh thinks we should move to a more serious starters guide, then to start with a "it's so easy, high volume, happy hour , 5 a day, bug hunting season"
[13:03] <persia> \sh: Go for it.  It just takes someone to do it :)
[13:03] <james_w> persia: yes, it does seem to have improved a lot since #ubuntu-bugs-announce
[13:08] <\sh> persia, yes...but for this, there is a strategy needed...which involves other people and some discussions...and not those "fire first and think about the reaction afterwards" actions...which is really bad management
[13:08] <persia> \sh: Yes.  #ubuntu-bugs is the place for such discussions :)
[13:12] <\sh> persia, well, hopefully I have something ready to discuss after linuxtag in may...
[13:12] <persia> \o/
[13:35]  * \sh swears at vmware-server
[13:36] <_ruben> why's that ?
[13:37] <\sh> _ruben, because it's not doing what I want
[13:37] <\sh> or I am stupid to read tcpdump...
[13:38]  * pochu waits for the Pony Awards!
[13:38] <_ruben> \sh: what are you trying to do ?
[13:38] <\sh> _ruben, something really simple
[13:38] <\sh> _ruben, running a webserver on a vmware instanz with bridged networking
[13:38] <\sh> normally I think of 2 mins
[13:39] <\sh> but now something strange happens..
[13:39] <_ruben> sounds fairly trivial indeed
[13:39] <\sh> _ruben, looks like that something intereferes with bridged networking and the vlan setup on the vmware host
[13:40] <\sh> bond0 = eth0+eth1 -> vlan1721 bound to bond0 -> this vlan1721 device is now my device for bridged network on /dev/vmnet0
[13:40] <StevenK> pochu: You might have to wait a while for LaserJock.
[13:41] <_ruben> \sh: ah, havent had such 'complex' setups yet :/
[13:43]  * persia wonders if new nominations to the Aurean Equine Association would be appreciated: it's heaps of work for just one judge
[13:56] <leonel> EVERYONE !   Thank you  for this  release 8.04 !
[13:56] <leonel> apt-get install pizza-for-everyone !
[14:00] <norsetto> leonel: anchovies for me pls.
[14:00] <leonel> norsetto: anchovies  cooking  ...
[15:31] <sebner> heya. Happy hardy release. Thanks to anyone who contributed :D
[15:32] <afflux> sebner: morning, you too :)
[15:32] <RainCT> hi sebner
[15:32] <sebner> afflux: RainCT :D
[15:36] <DktrKranz2> sebner: so, I guess you are on the list :P
[15:36] <RainCT> sebner: you mention me to afflux and grin? uhm...
[15:36]  * RainCT hides
[15:36] <RainCT> :D
[15:37] <afflux> hum *g*
[15:39] <sebner> DktrKranz2: I don't matter ;)
[15:39] <sebner> RainCT: lol
[15:44] <DktrKranz2> sebner: you matter. If we look at http://debomatic.linuxdc.it/rank.txt, you're the 21st uploader :P
[15:45] <sebner> DktrKranz2: empty for me ;)
[15:46] <sebner> DktrKranz2: size = 0 ^^
[15:46] <warp10> DktrKranz2: someone stole your rank.txt
[15:49] <TeTeT> if I want to add a small patch to an existing package, what is the best tool to help me with? Right now I do, apt-get source <pkg>, create patch vs this pkg sources, add it to debian/patches/; change version with dch -v, debuild -S, run pbuilder to get binary package
[15:50] <DktrKranz2> sebner: try it now.
[15:50] <DktrKranz2> warp10: you accidentally deleted it when trying to hijack your position :P
[15:51] <warp10> damn... he got me...
[15:51] <DktrKranz2> since you have FTP access, I see logs :P
[15:52] <warp10> DktrKranz2: I have no access! 0:-)
[15:52] <DktrKranz2> you have it, just you didn't know
[15:53] <warp10> DktrKranz2: really? mmm... nice...
[15:54] <emgent> happy hardy day :P
[15:56] <warp10> DktrKranz2: you're right, I'm in... well, now I can put my name at position... say... #3 should be enough :)
[15:57] <DktrKranz2> your choice
[15:57] <sebner> DktrKranz2: is rank 21 good or bad? ^^
[15:58] <DktrKranz2> sebner: you're the second non-motu
[15:58] <DktrKranz2> so, I guess it's good :P
[15:58]  * warp10 looks for the first non-motu...
[15:58] <sebner> warp10: Chuck Short?
[15:59] <Hobbsee> he's a motu
[15:59] <sebner> DktrKranz2: ^^. for intrepid at least rank 15 shouldn't be a problem xD xD xD
[15:59] <sebner> hmm
[15:59] <sebner> DktrKranz2: who is the first non-motu?
[15:59] <DktrKranz2> ember
[15:59] <DktrKranz2> pedro fragoso
[16:00] <sebner> 21 more
[16:00] <warp10> ah, ember... right!
[16:00] <sebner> that needs revenge xD
[16:00] <DktrKranz2> you'll have the chance soon
[16:00] <sebner> DktrKranz2: ^^
[16:00] <sebner> but not that bad since I started on 1.1 contributing
[16:01] <DktrKranz2> so, it's time for ponies?
[16:01] <\sh> oh 11th on the uploader list...I should stop uploading so much ;)
[16:01]  * Hobbsee will have a very low series of uploads, this time around.
[16:01] <DktrKranz2> \sh, argh, you beat me for just 5!
[16:01] <sebner> \sh: so intention to reach a better rank?
[16:01] <Hobbsee> wonder if that'll decrease further this release
[16:02] <\sh> sebner, nope..just the opposite
[16:02] <sebner> \sh: because.... ?
[16:02] <\sh> DktrKranz2, yeah..round about 100 pkgs ;)
[16:03] <fbond> This just needs a rebuild to fix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious/+bug/208425
[16:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 208425 in audacious "Audacious not launching (Segmentation Fault)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[16:03] <fbond> Takers?
[16:03] <\sh> sebner, concentrating on another area of ubuntu development :)
[16:03] <sebner> \sh: ok. that's understandable :)
[16:03] <\sh> -Etoolate? ;)
[16:03] <\sh> sebner, but I know me...it won't work ;)
[16:03] <DktrKranz2> fbond: good SRU candidate, then :)
[16:04] <fbond> DktrKranz2: Perfect, what next?
[16:04] <sebner> hihi
[16:04] <fbond> DktrKranz2: I suppose I need to write an SRU proposal or something?
[16:04] <\sh> 416	Matt Zimmerman (1 packages) ?? wth ;)
[16:04] <RainCT> fbond: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[16:04] <DktrKranz2> fbond: yes, follow http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SRU
[16:04] <DktrKranz2> RainCT: you're quick :P
[16:05] <sebner> DktrKranz2: but being a u-u-s isn't funny since you have to do the review but the contributor gets the points right?
[16:05] <RainCT> sebner: True :(
[16:05] <DktrKranz2> fbond: once my adsl will be working again, I'll process some :)
[16:05] <sebner> ^^
[16:05] <sebner> DktrKranz2: once ... xD ^^
[16:05] <RainCT> DktrKranz2: no, that's Firefox's new address bar :)
[16:06]  * warp10 loves Firefox's new address bar :)
[16:06] <DktrKranz2> aaaaaah, I'm on windows actually
[16:06] <DktrKranz2> so, I can't win
[16:06] <RainCT> DktrKranz2: you should better hide then :D
[16:06] <DktrKranz2> heh
[16:06] <sebner> DktrKranz2: being on win on hardy release day. wth? *attack* :P
[16:06]  * \sh heads home
[16:06] <DktrKranz2> at work, no more choices
[16:06] <\sh> sebner, he's testing wubi ,-)
[16:07] <RainCT> although... I've touched one too, today
[16:07] <warp10> sebner: :D
[16:07] <DktrKranz2> and that's the only network connection I have
[16:07] <sebner> \sh: lol. hf
[16:07] <DktrKranz2> yes, I'm testing WUBI
[16:07] <RainCT> heh
[16:08] <DktrKranz2> not true, but if saves me from being banned, sounds reasonable :P
[16:09] <sebner> lol
[16:10] <fbond> DktrKranz2: I should need to produce a debdiff for a rebuild only, right?
[16:10] <RainCT> DktrKranz2: I see your name in a suspect yellow... irssi knows that you lied *g*
[16:10] <fbond> It'd just be a simple changelog entry.
[16:10] <fbond> DktrKranz2: should *not* need to, that is.
[16:10] <RainCT> fbond: true. the version number should contain "build" instead of "ubuntu"
[16:10] <fbond> RainCT: Right, but I don't need a debdiff, right?
[16:11] <DktrKranz2> fbond: if that solves the issue, yes. target will be hardy-proposed
[16:11] <RainCT> fbond: hm.. I think you do, but I'm not sure
[16:11] <fbond> I mean, the debdiff would only contain a changelog entry.  Seems a bit silly.
[16:12] <DktrKranz2> no, it's a rebuild :)
[16:12] <DktrKranz2> it's ok to have just changeloge entry
[16:12] <fbond> DktrKranz2: right, so I do or don't need to attach a debdiff to the bug?
[16:13] <DktrKranz2> fbond: attach it, so you'll have credit for the upload :)
[16:13] <fbond> DktrKranz2: I don't need credit, I just want it fixed, and I'm busy.
[16:13] <fbond> Not attaching.
[16:14] <DktrKranz2> ok, if someone wants to do some practice with SRU process, may have a look at bug 208425
[16:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 208425 in xmms-crossfade "Audacious not launching (Segmentation Fault)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208425
[16:15] <RainCT> fbond: OK, if you ask you for one subscribe me once the SRU is approved and I'll prepare and upload it
[16:15] <RainCT> s/you/they
[16:15] <fbond> RainCT: Thanks.
[16:15] <DktrKranz2> this will probably require a rebuild in intrepid too
[16:17]  * DktrKranz2 notes audacious has several SIGSEV bugs, some of them might be duplicates
[16:17] <fbond> DktrKranz2: likely...
[16:19] <DktrKranz2> bug 208455 seems one of them
[16:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 208455 in xmms-crossfade "audacious-crossfade causes crash with Audacious 1.5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208455
[16:26] <sistpoty|work> fbond: it's motu-sru for universe updates btw, not ubuntu-sru (I just subscribed the former)
[16:27] <sebner> heya sistpoty|work :) *party*
[16:27] <fbond> sistpoty|work: sorry & thanks
[16:27] <sistpoty|work> hi sebner (*not party, since at work* *g*)
[16:27] <sistpoty|work> fbond: no problem ;)
[16:28] <sebner> sistpoty|work: mentally pary :P
[16:28] <sistpoty|work> heh
[16:31] <DktrKranz2> fbond: it seems bug 208425 is the main collector of dupes for this issue, so I'll mark yours as dupe of this one and reasssign to xmms-crossfade
[16:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 208425 in xmms-crossfade "Audacious not launching (Segmentation Fault)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208425
[16:36] <fbond> DktrKranz2: Okay, makes sense as long as it doesn't somehow interfere with the SRU process.
[16:36] <fbond> Thanks for your attention to this, BTW.
[16:37] <DktrKranz2> fbond: thanks to highlight it :)
[17:40]  * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
[17:50] <decklin> hello all
[17:50] <POX__> congrats (8.04 :)
[18:25] <fbond> I get dpkg-genchanges: cannot read files list file
[18:26] <fbond> debian/files is not being genereted
[18:26] <fbond> What could cause this?
[18:27] <fbond> Nevermind, my fault.
[18:27] <fbond> (Using CDBS, but forgot to include debhelper.mk)
[19:16] <LaserJock> "enjoy the break"?
[19:16] <RainCT> by the way, if someone knows of any little bitesize bug I could use this saturday (packaging jam), suggestions are welcome :)
[19:16] <pwnguin> hmm. i think i started something terrible on planet debian
[19:17] <LaserJock> DktrKranz2: around?
[19:19] <jcastro> RainCT: you're running a packaging jam?
[19:20] <jcastro> RainCT: there's a packaging playbook .pdf I attached to the packaging jam wiki page, feel free to use it for your jam, they've proven to be useful
[19:20] <RainCT> jcastro: yeah, together with jpatrick
[19:21] <jcastro> RainCT: feel free to cc myself and dholbach with how your jam goes, I'm keen on collecting data on how to best to improve the pages
[19:23] <RainCT> jcastro: OK, I'll do. Thanks :)
[20:28] <RainCT> Can someone help me with a setup.py please? I've two question... First, I want to install a data file but trying with "package_data=['data/image.jpg']," it doesn't work, and 2, if I want to install an icon into usr/share/pixmaps can I do that with distutils or should dh_install be used for that rather?
[21:17] <afflux> RainCT: what kind of python thing are you packaging? Is it a python package? If so package_data is the right thing and it should work but I guess the data would be installed directly in the package dirs (where the modules of the python package lie).
[21:18] <afflux> RainCT: for the pixmap thing, I do it in distutils: data_files=[('share/pixmaps', ['some-file.xpm'])]
[21:19] <afflux> RainCT: for package_data look at http://docs.python.org/dist/node12.html, if the data does not belong to a python package just add it to the data_files list. (a list of (path, files) tuples, where files is a list again)
[21:25] <RainCT> afflux: it's just for an example application and package, so as nobody answered I decided to simulate that its a broken setup.py file and install the data files with debian/install :P. But thanks for the info, I'll remember that for when I write a "real" setup.py :).
[21:25] <afflux> hehe
[21:27] <RainCT> man.. is it just me or ubuntuforums.org is awfuly slow today?
[21:28] <laga> i've heard other people complain
[21:28] <RainCT> hm.. ok, seems to be just me (same with google :P)
[21:28] <RainCT> or not :)
[22:20] <stani> pochu: we managed to make a deb for his program
[22:44] <RainCT> good night
[22:47] <Iulian> G'night
[22:47] <sebner> gn8 RainCT
[22:48] <sebner> gn8 folks :)
[22:58] <pochu> stani: cool!
[22:59] <stani> his application is quite nice and professional
[22:59] <stani> but he has to restructure his file structure a bit
[22:59] <stani> and define his own mimetype
[23:00] <stani> he'll try to come to the package session
[23:00] <pochu> nice
[23:03] <pochu> good night