[07:54] <superm1> evand, i'd think that'd be a neat option to put in the advanced options
[08:04] <evand> superm1: the UI I was thinking of was automatically backing up the MBR, putting it in a known location, and then adding an option to isolinux/casper that restores the MBR, then looks in fstab and clears the ubuntu partition(s) and, if only one partition is left, resizes it to fill the space.
[08:04] <evand> but perhaps you're looking at it from a different angle?  Can you elaborate?
[08:05] <superm1> well UI wise: i was thinking as an option on the last page of ubiquity makes more sense
[08:05] <superm1> you know that little advanced button
[08:06] <superm1> but easily preseeding the option from one of the menu items in isolinux
[08:06] <evand> to back up the mbr, or to do the restore part, or what exactly?
[08:06] <superm1> oh yeah that.
[08:06] <superm1> to back it up :)
[08:06] <superm1> and then for restoring it, put something in friendly-recovery
[08:06] <superm1> that can grab it
[08:06] <evand> ah, indeed
[08:07] <superm1> not sure if there is an "easy" way to invoke friendly recovery on the cd at this point though
[08:07] <superm1> but that would keep the isolinux menu from getting too cluttered
[08:07] <evand> perhaps it could be shoved in one of the submenus, though those are all checkboxes at this point
[08:08] <evand> wow, no cjwatson
[08:08] <superm1> well thinking about it more, a "recover a broken system" might almost make sense as a main menu item in isolinux
[08:08] <superm1> and have this end up as one of the options
[08:08] <evand> ah, perhaps this can be rolled into the existing recovery plans somehow.
[08:09] <superm1> but in some fashion i think this MBR backup to a standard facility is a great idea
[08:09] <evand> yeah, other distros have done it for a while so I can't say it's unique
[08:09] <evand> but it was quite the missing piece when advocating Ubuntu (before Wubi came around and provided an easy way to uninstall)
[08:11] <superm1> didn't really realize that other distros have had it for a while
[08:11] <superm1> i've been entrenched in the ubuntu way of doing things for such a while :)
[08:11] <evand> well, in a limited capacity
[08:12] <evand> I believe they just dd the MBR to a file.
[08:12] <evand> but yes, me as well
[08:12] <superm1> that's what we're doing for our recovery disks too
[08:12] <superm1> to get the utility partition and recovery partition back in shape easily
[08:12] <superm1> and properly bootable etc
[08:12] <evand> neat
[08:13] <superm1> i'll have to bring by and show you some of the things that me and michael got together w/ UDS for it
[08:13] <superm1> its all a pretty nice and extensible system now
[08:13] <evand> yeah, definitely
[08:13] <evand> are you going to be there for the entirety?
[08:13] <superm1> yup
[08:13] <evand> awesome
[08:13] <superm1> coming in saturday or so i think
[08:13] <superm1> i'll have to check my flight info
[08:14] <superm1> it's a looong flight with 3 layovers i think
[08:14] <evand> really?  I have to go to Atlanta of all places, but that's the only diversion.
[08:14] <superm1> oh that's the same thing that cory (_MMA_) got too
[08:14] <superm1> i ended up on american airlines (since i like to wrack up miles), so that's why i got all these hops i guess
[08:15] <evand> awesome, maybe he'll be on our flight.  For the first time ever I'm sharing a plane with a few coworkers.
[08:15] <superm1> oh neat.  did you plan your seats accordingly to power and stuff (http://www.seatguru.com)
[08:15] <evand> Ah, I try to do that with Contential, but I'm on Delta this time around.
[08:15] <superm1> yeah cory is on Delta too
[08:16] <evand> good deal
[08:16] <superm1> right before i bought my tickets a coworker was telling me about seatguru over lunch, so i think i might be watching DVDs the whole way or something now :)
[08:17] <evand> yeah, it's awesome
[08:17] <evand> I actually didn't know you could pick your own seat until this past sprint
[08:17] <evand> now I'm always hunting for a power outlet
[08:17] <superm1> well i always try to go the route that i pay out of pocket first
[08:18] <superm1> and then get reimbursed
[08:18] <superm1> since that means more miles and such
[08:18] <evand> ah, indeed
[08:18] <evand> I'm not buying into the milage game much.  At least on Contential it will take several trips to Europe before I get a free domestic flight.
[08:19] <superm1> well i normally wouldn't either, but american gave me a nice 25k starting thing for opening up one of their frequent flyer master cards
[08:19] <evand> perhaps I should push for another UDS Australia
[08:19] <superm1> and i'm sitting at around 50k now
[08:19] <evand> nice
[08:19] <evand> I keep getting mailers for that stuff
[08:19] <evand> perhaps I should just open the Contential card and not use it
[08:20] <superm1> well they have stipulations that you have to spend like 1000 before you get them or something usually
[08:20] <evand> ah, lame.
[08:20] <superm1> well look at it this way though - you will have groceries, gas, and all those regular expenses
[08:20] <superm1> that 1000 will come up before you know it
[08:20] <evand> yeah, I just hate using a credit card.
[08:21] <evand> I find debit cards much easier to manage.
[08:21] <superm1> i used to agree with that, until both my mom and i had our CC #'s taken somehow
[08:21] <evand> oooouch
[08:21] <superm1> and i was really greatful that it was credit cards
[08:21] <superm1> so they just wiped the charges
[08:21] <superm1> and we were fine
[08:21] <evand> yeah, I tend to keep a minimal amount in my checking account for that reason
[08:22] <superm1> it was weird though, different states, different card companies, different types of charges, almost every variable different except that it was on the same weekend
[08:22] <evand> my savings and checking accounts with Wamu allow immediate transfers, so its not a big deal to move cash in when I need it
[08:22] <evand> weird
[08:23] <superm1> yeah that's pretty convenient
[08:23] <superm1> ooh yikes.  2:23, i should be in bed.  have a good night :)
[08:25] <evand> you as well
[11:49] <mlind> I've got encrypted LVM setup done by Gutsy's alternate installer. I'm unsure how to activate existing crypto and LVM's inside using Hardy alternate installer, is there a guide or wiki entry for this?
[11:50] <cjwatson> I think you should just need to go to "Configure the Logical Volume Manager" and then back out again
[11:50] <mlind> cjwatson: There's no such option in the installer menu though
[11:50] <cjwatson> and then set up the partitions as normal
[11:50] <cjwatson> blink
[11:50] <mlind> eh, let me rephrase
[11:51] <mlind> I probably need to activate the crypto somehow before I can see the LVM inside it
[11:51] <cjwatson> ah
[11:51] <cjwatson> "Configure encrypted volumes" then
[11:52] <mlind> okay, this lets me select the device, but prompts for a "new" password which is bit worrying. is it normal procedure?
[11:52] <cjwatson> I think you need to have at least one partition set to "Use as: physical volume for encryption" first
[11:52] <cjwatson> give me a minute, I haven't actually used this much and am answering by reading the code first
[11:52] <mlind> okay, thanks
[11:53] <cjwatson> hmm, it seems to want to erase them by default
[11:53] <cjwatson> (except for the way we nobbled the erase)
[11:53] <mlind> that doesn't sound right
[11:53] <cjwatson> (but still)
[11:54] <cjwatson> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=451535
[11:55] <ubotu> Debian bug 451535 in partman-crypto "debian-installer: allow to 'reuse' encrypted volumes" [Wishlist,Open]
[11:55] <mlind> bummer
[11:55] <cjwatson> links to http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Rescue/Crypto and says you can do that before starting the partitioner
[11:55] <cjwatson> not pretty, but looks plausible enough
[11:56] <cjwatson> we have the fix for the bug Frans referred to in partman-lvm
[11:56] <mlind> yeah, thanks for the link. looks doable
[11:56] <mlind> maybe this should have been in the release notes
[11:56] <cjwatson> I didn't know about it; but it's quite possible to add to the release notes ;-)
[11:57] <cjwatson> any reason you aren't just upgrading?
[11:57] <mlind> yeah, I'd prefer clean install
[11:57] <cjwatson> I'm not going to draft the release notes text right now, but I've added a note to myself to do it
[11:57] <mlind> and leave Gutsy as a failsafe
[11:57] <mlind> thanks cjwatson
[11:58] <cjwatson> I have been waging a campaign to persuade people that they don't generally need to install from scratch, but if you have a good reason then fair enough
[11:58] <cjwatson> (dual-boot is different from installing hardy alongside gutsy, though)
[11:58] <cjwatson> err ... from installing hardy over the top of gutsy
[11:59] <mlind> okay, I've done deboostrapped install from Gutsy -> Hardy, but I'd like to test out what configuration files does the installer write
[12:03] <mlind> that "almost possible" in the Debian bug 451535 sounds worrying. Frans says partman doesn't recognize existing filesystems although those can be mounted.
[12:03] <ubotu> Debian bug 451535 in partman-crypto "debian-installer: allow to 'reuse' encrypted volumes" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/451535
[12:05] <cjwatson> 11:56 <cjwatson> we have the fix for the bug Frans referred to in partman-lvm
[12:06] <cjwatson> follow the link to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=451970
[12:06] <ubotu> Debian bug 451970 in partman-lvm "partman-lvm: allow to 'reuse' logical volumes" [Normal,Fixed]
[12:06] <cjwatson> fixed in partman-lvm 56, and hardy has 57
[12:09] <mlind> ah, got it. do the magic before starting the partitioner
[16:02] <xivulon> cjwatson, evand, had to reopen bug #206113 since a few users reported issues. No logs yet.
[16:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 206113 in util-linux "Wubi install cannot create swap space (8.04 Beta) [Regression from alpha 6]" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206113
[16:03] <cjwatson> xivulon: wouldn't it be clearer at this point to file a new bug, and refer to the old one?
[16:03] <cjwatson> it gets really confusing to keep closing and reopening bugs
[16:03] <xivulon> I see, wasn't sure what was the best practice
[16:04] <cjwatson> it's easier to mark a bug as a duplicate if it turns out to be the same as an earlier one, than to split two bugs apart out of one
[16:04] <cjwatson> i.e. Launchpad actually supports the former easily, but doesn't support the latter at all
[16:05] <xivulon> ok, I'll let it as is for now, once I know more (hopefully will get some logs) will change it as appropriate
[16:07] <xivulon> I have been biten by #8497, can we do something with edd=on for point release? add a menu item maybe?
[16:16] <cjwatson> there *is* a menu item
[16:16] <cjwatson> press F6 twice at the boot menu
[16:18] <authenticate> I meant on the wubi installation menu. That answers it anyway! I will copy what has been done on the live CD!
[16:18] <cjwatson> oh, ok
[16:27] <evand> ugh, #ubuntu is stressful.
[16:29] <cjwatson> wow, you're keeping up with it?
[16:30] <evand> I have wubi and ubiquity on /hilight and am joined to #ubuntu (and was previously in #ubuntu+1)
[16:30] <evand> I try to answer questions in there and encourage people to file bugs whenever possible.
[16:31] <evand> (installer specific stuff, I don't have the time for general support)
[16:32] <evand> it's mostly been "don't use wubi!" and today started the "I hate the new tzmap but wont say more than its annoying"
[16:37] <cjwatson> my problems in ISO testing were mostly that I found I needed quite quick reactions to get it to scroll to just the right place
[16:37] <cjwatson> now, I have quite quick reactions, but I can imagine that that might cause problems
[16:39] <evand> can you elaborate on that?  I figured the scroll when on edge took away the need for precision movement.
[16:39] <evand> Is it moving too quickly?
[16:40] <cjwatson> yeah, I find it tends to move out from under me too quickly, particularly when scrolling vertically (since the vertical size of the visible map is quite short really)
[16:40] <cjwatson> I noticed you made a change to make the hover areas proportional to the size of the map, which might help
[16:42] <evand> hopefully.  I'll have to play with slowing it down.  I also need to stop it from scrolling when the mouse moves out of the map area completely (caused by the delay to zoom out change)
[16:42] <evand> do we have a schedule for 8.04.1 yet?
[16:43] <cjwatson> oh, I meant to talk with you about that :)
[16:43]  * cjwatson tries to find the platform meeting where we talked about 8.04.1
[16:45] <cjwatson> ok, not a lot of detail there
[16:45] <cjwatson> evand: phone call? still on VoIP?
[16:46] <evand> cjwatson: sure, I have my phone back, but let me grab the charger.
[16:46] <evand> One moment.
[16:46] <evand> (well, I have my old phone on my number now
[16:46] <evand> )
[16:46] <cjwatson> hmm, argh, the USB plug won't go in
[16:46] <cjwatson> I hate computers
[16:47] <cjwatson> ah, there, it was just very stiff
[16:47] <evand> heh, you picked a hell of a profession then :)
[17:12] <xivulon> most common issues I found so far in wubi: 1) wrong disk order; 2) cannot extract iso (unfinalized medium?); 3) mkswap; 4) video and grub4dos
[17:16] <xivulon> cjwatson I am not too convinced about the edd option in menu, most users will "find out" after installation. At that stage it is easier to explain how to edit menu.lst than to rerun the installation with edd=on
[17:16] <xivulon> I'd assume that turning it on when more than one disk is detected it's not a good idea correct?
[17:22] <xivulon> I could also add a small batch file that edits menu.lst on the windows side
[17:40] <cjwatson> you might be right about menu.lst (actually, device.map is better)
[17:40] <cjwatson> the problem with turning on EDD is that it causes some systems to fail to boot
[17:40] <cjwatson> at all
[17:40] <cjwatson> or to have long delays during boot
[17:40] <cjwatson> it's also not nearly so widely implemented as we might like
[17:41] <cjwatson> so it's at best an optional stopgap :-/
[17:41] <cjwatson> the idea is great, but implementation less so
[17:41] <xivulon> you cannot turn it on post-boot via sysctl or similar I assume
[17:41] <cjwatson> also, with the way EDD works, it's entirely possible for two disks to have identical signatures if e.g. they're both fresh from the factory
[17:41] <cjwatson> no, you can't, it requires stuff to be done in real mode in early boot
[17:46] <xivulon> is device.map used at boot? not sure how that would help since root is already in grub "space" (hdX,Y)
[17:47] <xivulon> I was referring about editing menu.lst in post-installation "automatically", which is what I am suggesting users to do at the moment
[17:47] <xivulon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WubiGuide#head-281e2c55090fcd96336e6fe3029fec5aede1a230
[17:56] <cjwatson> device.map is used by grub-install to map grub devices back and forward so that it can copy the grub image to the right drive
[17:56] <cjwatson> but I guess you're right that it's important to update groot in menu.lst as well
[18:00] <xivulon> I have asked bean123 and tinybit if they have any tip on that, they might have some windows-side tool to get the disk number
[18:01] <xivulon> evand any interesting issue people reported on #ubuntu?
[18:03] <cjwatson> it's not a disk number as such
[18:03] <cjwatson> it's a signature of the first bit of the device
[18:04] <xivulon> do you mean the X in groot (hdX,Y)?
[18:05] <evand> xivulon: there seems to be a lot of resentment towards wubi
[18:05] <evand> trying to get to the bottom of it
[18:05] <xivulon> from users?
[18:05] <xivulon> I cannot connect there
[18:05] <xivulon> from what I can gather from the forum things are quite okish
[18:05] <evand> mostly from people answering questions, from what I can tell
[18:06] <evand> this happened before if you recall, and I talked to the ops and they stopped spreading FUD
[18:06] <evand> but it seems to be regular people who are always in #ubuntu now
[18:06] <cjwatson> xivulon: oh, I see what you mean
[18:06] <cjwatson> xivulon: Windows-side tools are not any more helpful; you need a reliable way to map that to the Linux device name
[18:06] <cjwatson> to my knowledge, EDD is the best we have for that
[18:07] <cjwatson> it's just not very good
[18:07] <cjwatson> it's fundamentally the same kind of problem we have with mapping between Windows devices and Linux devices
[18:07] <cjwatson> really, it's mapping Linux devices to anything outside Linux, not something to do with the BIOS as such
[18:07] <xivulon> evand, is the resentment with the ops?
[18:08] <xivulon> from the website if most of the bugs are on disk order, it means things are fairly smooth
[18:08] <xivulon> since that is a 1 in 100 type of issue
[18:08] <xivulon> (people with multiple disks to begin with)
[18:08] <evand> hard to say, I haven't been checking to see who's an op (they're not usually +o)
[18:08] <cjwatson> I have a feeling the resentment is from people who have never used wubi and are not intending to do so
[18:08] <cjwatson> and is therefore unlikely to be due to wubi bugs as such
[18:08] <cjwatson> they just don't like the idea
[18:09] <xivulon> I respect that!
[18:09] <xivulon> I also suggest people to go for full installation if they have no issues with ISO and partitioning
[18:09] <evand> I fear that people are amplifying cases where it didn't work.  Someone will see someone complain about it not working and then start telling everyone to avoid it because it's horribly broken.
[18:10] <evand> but that's just my guess
[18:10] <cjwatson> could be
[18:10] <evand> I'll prod more and try to get to the bottom of it
[18:10] <xivulon> are the ops aware of the wubiguide wiki?
[18:10] <xivulon> the troubleshooting section should take care of the vast majority of issues
[18:10] <evand> yes, /msg ubotu wubi
[18:11] <evand> if you want that changed, pop into #ubuntu-ops when you can
[18:11] <xivulon> I have also noticed that sometimes people blame wubi for general issues
[18:11] <xivulon> such as acpi or video
[18:12] <xivulon> evand cannot reach that (need to edit channel list at home)
[18:12] <bean123> hi
[18:12] <xivulon> but they should have a reference to the wubiguide too,
[18:12] <xivulon> hi bean123!
[18:12] <xivulon> let me do the introduction
[18:12] <xivulon> this is the dev that maintains grub4dos if you do not him already
[18:13] <xivulon> was extremely helpful on several issues with wubi
[18:13] <bean123> you are ago ?
[18:13] <xivulon> yes
[18:13] <xivulon> ago is taken on freenode :(
[18:13] <xivulon> and not a good word to highlight...
[18:14] <evand> hi bean123, thanks for your hard work on grub4dos!
[18:15] <xivulon> as mentioned in the email we were discussing about ways to go about wrong disk order!
[18:15] <xivulon> in menu.lst
[18:15] <bean123> thanks, :)
[18:16] <xivulon> bean123 do you have any tip on that?
[18:16] <bean123> i wonder why to use fixed disk name, can you scan it at runtime
[18:16] <xivulon> find --set-root?
[18:17] <bean123> any problem ?
[18:17] <xivulon> I had that in 7.10 but discarded it in 8.04 since I am not sure that grub (linux) can use it
[18:17] <xivulon> and that would have involved more extensive changes in update-grub
[18:18] <xivulon> also can I use relative paths with find --set-root?
[18:19] <xivulon> in 7.10 used find --set-root with modified absolute paths ,,,,
[18:19] <xivulon> which is not an option
[18:19] <bean123> you use grub also ?
[18:20] <xivulon> was more to prepare for migrations to real partitions by reducing the delta
[18:20] <xivulon> and have a compatible menu.lst to begin with (only requireing groot replacement)
[18:20] <bean123> perhaps you can try grub2
[18:21] <xivulon> not in 8.04
[18:21] <xivulon> we will probably discuss that at UDS for 8.10
[18:21] <xivulon> cjwatson would know more
[18:21] <cjwatson> Colin King is looking at grub2; however grub2 has been on our agenda for over two years and has not yet demonstrated the level of stability we would require
[18:21] <cjwatson> furthermore, grub2 doesn't help here
[18:22] <xivulon> bean123 any way to add relative paths to find --set-root
[18:22] <cjwatson> the fundamental problem remains that of mapping Linux device names to BIOS devices, which none of grub, grub2, or grub2dos can usefully help with
[18:22] <xivulon> I think that a new grub4dos build could make 8.04.1
[18:22] <cjwatson> in my opinion, we have done the best we are technically able to do in 8.04
[18:22] <xivulon> if it fixes the disk order
[18:23] <cjwatson> except perhaps for making it easier for users to adjust the order manually when it goes wrong
[18:23] <xivulon> cjwatson, grub4dos has this feature whereby it can set the root disk by looking for a file path
[18:23] <xivulon> find --set-root
[18:23] <cjwatson> scanning at run-time *might* be possible, but we would have to leave a UUID-named file around to cope with multiboot systems
[18:24] <xivulon> sure that would only replace the root line
[18:24] <xivulon> but...
[18:24] <cjwatson> we can't just scan for /vmlinuz or whatever
[18:24] <bean123> can you be more specific, what function do you want to add to find --set-root
[18:24] <xivulon> the issue is that I need relative paths (if you recall)
[18:24] <xivulon> now they are added via the root command, e.g. root (hd0,2)/ubuntu/disks
[18:25] <xivulon> if I use find --set-root, where do I put the relative path?
[18:25] <bean123> oh, i see, it shouldn't be difficult
[18:26] <xivulon> I think that would make it, and we could look for /ubuntu/disks/boot/vmlinuz maybe?
[18:26] <bean123> perhaps i can add a --base parameter to skip the base path
[18:27] <xivulon> or --relative anyway something like that
[18:27] <xivulon> cjwatson what do you think?
[18:27] <xivulon> is it too invasive for 8.04.1
[18:28] <xivulon> ?
[18:33] <cjwatson> up to evand
[18:34]  * evand reads scrollback
[18:41] <evand> hrm, is /ubuntu/disks/boot/vmlinuz unique enough?
[18:41] <evand> I suppose so
[18:43] <xivulon> should be since I do not allow multiple installations
[18:43] <cjwatson> well, that's why I was thinking of a UUID-named file somewhere
[18:43] <cjwatson> but in the case of wubi, sure
[18:43] <xivulon> bean123, I guess it would not hert to add the extra find argument if you do not mind
[18:43] <xivulon> s/hert/hurt/
[18:44] <xivulon> relative path argument I mean
[18:44] <bean123> yep
[18:44] <evand> cjwatson: indeed, I wasn't sure if his solution adequately addressed the multiboot problem whereas a UUID named file surely would.
[18:44] <xivulon> or maybe split the relative path to a separate parameter
[18:45] <xivulon> I could create a UUID filename in C\ubuntu\disks\boot
[18:45] <xivulon> hopefull users will not delete it
[18:45] <xivulon> y
[18:46] <xivulon> but then we would need to preseed it correct?
[18:48] <cjwatson> xivulon: no, you could have grub-installer create it and fill it into menu.lst
[18:48] <cjwatson> if the same component does both, preseeding doesn't need to be involved
[18:50] <xivulon> of course
[18:50] <xivulon> the above solution (sort of) worked well in 7.10 by the way
[18:52] <xivulon> evand /msg ubotu wubi should mention the WubiGuide. Even better: if you have troubles 1) check the troubleshooting section of the WubiGuide, 2) ask in the wubi forum
[18:53] <evand> xivulon: can you PM me the exact line you'd like to see and I'll bring it to #ubuntu-ops?
[18:54] <xivulon> could you take care of that?
[18:55] <evand> I can, but I'd need to know exactly what you would like ubotu to say when someone requests the wubi factoid.
[18:58] <xivulon> evand http://paste.ubuntu.com/8075/
[18:59] <xivulon> feel free to fix my wording
[19:00] <evand> a little wordy for IRC, allow me to cut it down a bit
[19:00] <evand> thanks
[19:01] <xivulon> all yours
[19:01] <xivulon> another small issue
[19:01] <xivulon> atm I check for memory >= 256MB
[19:02] <xivulon> but when users have 256 memory that is sometimes reported to be slightly less
[19:02] <xivulon> so the check fails and users are confused
[19:02] <evand> right, when the video card eats some
[19:02] <xivulon> is it ok to lower the limit to 250MB?
[19:03] <evand> sounds reasonable
[19:03] <xivulon> I'd guess though that then I might get tickets about the installer getting stacked...
[19:03] <evand> you should test it first
[19:03] <evand> make sure it runs comfortably under those conditions
[19:03] <evand> then again, it was pretty close at 256
[19:04] <evand> this might not be a good idea
[19:04] <xivulon> would that be machine specific I guess (video memory)
[19:04] <xivulon> ok I'll live it at that, I have a skipmemorycheck flag
[19:05] <xivulon> and it is in the wubiguide (if only people used it...)
[19:10] <xivulon> bean123 thanks in advance :)
[19:11] <bean123> :)
[19:15] <xivulon> bean123 I am inclined to think that a separate relative path argument might be easier to handle
[19:15] <xivulon> so to migrate from loopinstallation to realinstallation I can just delete the #groot line and run update-grub (I guess)
[19:17] <xivulon> hmm maybe not
[19:17] <xivulon> forget about ^
[19:17] <bean123> it seems ok, but i need to discuss with tinybit first
[19:18] <xivulon> lets have it inline
[19:18] <bean123> ok then
[19:18] <xivulon> or we will need to handle 8.04 menu.lst and 8.04.1 menu.lst separately
[19:19] <evand> yeah, please remember that 8.04.1 is still under strict rules wrt changes, so shoot for small deltas
[19:19] <xivulon> agreed
[19:19]  * xivulon off
[19:20] <bean123> just wondering, any plan to use grub2 soon ?
[19:21] <evand> 13:21:49 < cjwatson> Colin King is looking at grub2; however grub2 has been on our agenda for over two years and has not yet  demonstrated the level of stability we would require
[19:21] <evand> bean123: ^ possible, though we haven't had much luck in the past
[19:21] <evand> possibly*
[19:22] <bean123> what's the problem exactly
[19:23] <cjwatson> all sorts, it just hasn't had nearly the degree of hammering that grub has had
[19:24] <cjwatson> no rewrite from scratch is ever half as bug-free as the original until it's had a good period of settling down in wide use; that's why rewrites from scratch are generally a bad idea
[19:24] <cjwatson> and, frankly, we know the bugs that grub has, we don't (for the most part) know the bugs that grub2 has
[19:24] <cjwatson> but, shrug, last time I tried it didn't even boot. it's probably worth at least looking at again
[19:25] <bean123> i think it's working pretty well now, have you checked the latest version
[19:25] <bean123> i built a live cd some time ago, you can check it out
[19:26] <bean123> http://grub4dos.sourceforge.net/grub2/grub2-2008-04-03.iso.bz2
[19:27] <bean123> just extract it to C:\, then add this line to boot.ini:
[19:27] <bean123> C:\g2ldr.mbr="Start GRUB2"
[19:27] <bean123> just like grub4dos
[21:07] <xivulon> does anybody know a quick way to replace a file within an ISO? was looking at genisoimage and got lost in the options
[21:07] <xivulon> to test the vista bug
[21:10] <mario_limonciell> xivulon, i'm not sure, but perhaps archive manager (file-roller) might let you.  i noticed recently I can "browse" ISOs with it
[21:20] <cjwatson> mkisofs -r -V 'Ubuntu 8.04 i386' -o hardy-alternate-i386-hacked.iso -cache-inodes -J -l -b isolinux/isolinux.bin -c isolinux/boot.cat -no-emul-boot -boot-load-size 4 -boot-info-table new-i386
[21:20] <cjwatson> ^- my rune for building a new image
[21:21] <cjwatson> assuming unpacked tree in new-i386 (typically created by loop-mount and cp -a)
[21:22] <xivulon> great thanks!
[21:22] <xivulon> bug #222018
[21:22] <xivulon> evand ^
[21:23] <xivulon> ah don't bother!
[21:23] <xivulon> the wubi on the website is rev 501 the one on the CD 495
[21:26] <xivulon> hmm nope
[21:26] <xivulon> that does should still match with http://releases.ubuntu.com/8.04/MD5SUMS
[21:27] <xivulon> the bug is valid