=== gnomefre1k is now known as gnomefreak | ||
dat | I've just been trying to set up avahi and the enable_avahi script is missing from /usr/share/avahi - does anyone know where I can get it from? | 02:13 |
---|---|---|
dat | I figured out that all it does is write a line to /etc/default/avahi-daemon and then start the init.d process which I have done and can't see my other machines services let alone this machines | 02:37 |
sophiemg | hola | 03:24 |
sophiemg | alguien me puede ayudar en una tarea? | 03:25 |
stdin | !es | 03:25 |
ubotu | Aquí solamente hablamos inglés. Para Español, por favor entre en los canales #ubuntu-es o #kubuntu-es - allí obtendrá más ayuda. | 03:25 |
e-uoaphys | is kubuntu 8.04 using kde4, or kde3 default? | 04:13 |
stdin | default is kde3 | 04:20 |
nixternal | default is whatever you download :p | 05:02 |
nixternal | you download Kubuntu 8.04 you get KDE, you download the Remix, you get KDE 4 | 05:03 |
nixternal | and who in their right mind enjoys doing a code walkthrough? | 05:03 |
ScottK | When it's someone else's crap code and you don't like them? | 05:09 |
ScottK | Is there a metapackage for all the kde4 games? | 05:13 |
stdin | kdegames-kde4 ? | 05:14 |
* ScottK tries | 05:15 | |
stdin | well, that seems exist anyway | 05:15 |
* stdin should really know | 05:15 | |
ScottK | Yep. That was it. | 05:16 |
ScottK | Thanks. | 05:17 |
stdin | :) | 05:18 |
nixternal | ScottK: actually all of the code was very well written...funny thing is I wrote a module where it reviewed high, but my brain was toast, and I was feeling e.tarded | 05:24 |
nixternal | I couldn't make sense of my own comments..just needed sleep | 05:24 |
ScottK | K. Just offering that as a scenario that might be fun. | 05:26 |
ScottK | Speaking of needing sleep ... | 05:26 |
ScottK | Good night all. | 05:26 |
nixternal | ScottK: ahh, just totally grasped what you said up there...that would be fun :) anywho, g'nite to you as well | 05:46 |
=== wolfger_ is now known as wolfger | ||
mhb | is it me or do we need a good theme for KDE4 KDM? | 11:12 |
jpatrick | kwwii: ^ | 11:12 |
mhb | well | 11:12 |
mhb | we cannot count on him, he is too busy with his job | 11:12 |
mhb | but I meant in general | 11:12 |
mhb | look around, see what is available, do some branding... | 11:13 |
mhb | perhaps offer a bit similar look to what Ubuntu is offering | 11:13 |
* mhb has to check how gdm actually looks like these days | 11:13 | |
mhb | jpatrick: how are you doing these days? | 11:17 |
jpatrick | mhb: not too good, but surviving | 11:18 |
mhb | jpatrick: hmm, bad | 11:19 |
jpatrick | mhb: am loving coding in Python tho, how about yourself? | 11:19 |
mhb | jpatrick: I am not doing much coding recently, a bit C sharp, but I am not liking that :o) | 11:22 |
jpatrick | mhb: I have to do VB at school, but I always have firefox in the background with docs.python.org opened | 11:23 |
mhb | jpatrick: VB is even more evil than C Sharp | 11:26 |
jpatrick | so true | 11:26 |
mhb | jpatrick: so you are coming to UDS? | 11:26 |
jpatrick | mhb: hopefully, depends on when the money comes, but I'm doing what I can | 11:27 |
mhb | jpatrick: splendid! What are your plans for intrepid? Meaning stuff you want to take part of yourself... | 11:27 |
jpatrick | mhb: hmm, haven't really thought of it yet.. | 11:29 |
mhb | okay | 11:30 |
jpatrick | mhb: hopefully some coding :) | 11:31 |
jpatrick | but with no internet at home, things get tricky. | 11:33 |
mhb | well that is not true :-) | 11:33 |
mhb | I was also coding without internet for some time | 11:34 |
mhb | you can install all the documentation you need as packages | 11:34 |
mhb | python, qt3, qt4... you name it | 11:34 |
jpatrick | ah, that reminds me | 11:34 |
jpatrick | well, library's closing.. best be off.. :( | 11:36 |
mhb | see you | 11:37 |
* jpatrick has all docs waiting for him | 11:37 | |
jpatrick | mhb: ps. some example code of mine ;) http://www.cli-apps.org/content/show.php?content=79678 | 11:38 |
* mhb checks it out | 11:39 | |
mhb | interesting | 11:41 |
* jpatrick uses it basically to store his passwords 'safely' | 11:41 | |
jpatrick | bye for now | 11:45 |
mhb | bye | 11:46 |
TimS | Wo edits the website? They have the link to the English DVD ISO server wrong. | 13:02 |
TimS | who* | 13:02 |
TimS | It should be http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/kubuntu/releases/8.04/release/ | 13:02 |
jjesse | morning :) | 13:31 |
ligemeget | Good morning :) | 13:32 |
ligemeget | (well... aftenoon actually..) | 13:32 |
jjesse | hello ligemeget | 13:32 |
=== Timmy is now known as TimS | ||
ligemeget | my hat's off to the Kubuntu website - even though I don't like some of the colors, in terms of news and general design it still pwns ubuntu.com :) | 13:36 |
jjesse | i know they are working on making some further changes to it | 13:36 |
ligemeget | Reading the mailing list, I've gotten the impression that the kubuntu-devs were relatively short on manpower..? | 13:38 |
ligemeget | Sorry, got kicked off while installing kubuntu-desktop :) | 13:43 |
Nightrose | ligemeget: we could use a helping hand, yes ;-) | 13:53 |
ligemeget | Nightrose, I'm about to get used to Kubuntu - then I may introduce myself to the devel-list. Although I really don't know really much programming yet (unfortunately mostly Java) I'm willing to read up on it :) | 13:54 |
Nightrose | :) great | 13:54 |
Nightrose | you can also do packaging, documentation, bug hunting for example | 13:54 |
Nightrose | if you don't want to program | 13:55 |
ligemeget | But I want to program, actually - since it's what I'm studying, so I guess helping out Kubuntu would be great learning | 13:56 |
ligemeget | Also, is your Documentation part of the ubuntu-docs team? | 13:56 |
jjesse | bug hunting would be great as well | 13:56 |
jjesse | ligemeget: yes it is | 13:56 |
jjesse | myself and nixternal head up the documetnation for kubuntu | 13:57 |
jjesse | as part of uuntu-docs | 13:57 |
ligemeget | do you also use help.ubuntu.com wiki? | 13:57 |
jjesse | yes | 13:57 |
devilsadvocate_ | i had a question about bug triaging : what does it take for a bugs status to change to Confirmed? | 13:57 |
ligemeget | okay - then I could probably do something there as well | 13:58 |
ligemeget | devilsadvocat_: If someone else than the reporter is able to reproduce the bug | 13:58 |
ligemeget | (...I think) | 13:58 |
Nightrose | devilsadvocate_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status | 13:58 |
ligemeget | brb, reboot to KDE :D | 13:59 |
=== mp__ is now known as ligemeget | ||
ligemeget | there | 14:11 |
ligemeget | lovely | 14:11 |
ligemeget | Now Amarok is in KDE, where it belongs :) | 14:11 |
TimS | Any doc guys here? | 14:16 |
jjesse | did TimS leave? | 15:00 |
Nightrose | yes | 15:01 |
Nightrose | but still in #kde-docs | 15:02 |
ScottK | jjesse: RE your blog post on external monitors: You might ask bryce if your driver/X support what you are trying to do. He can probably give you a hint on which way to get it done. | 15:10 |
=== mcas|away is now known as mcas | ||
jjesse | ScottK: thanks it would be disappointing if i can't, one of the reasons i still keep iwndows on my laptop | 15:10 |
ScottK | He just started a wiki page on configuring X and it'd be a useful addition if you could come up with a HOWTO once you've got it. | 15:10 |
jjesse | would love to write it up | 15:10 |
jjesse | i hate "sharing" my desktopw hen i use a projector | 15:11 |
ScottK | So tell him that and ask for some pointers. | 15:11 |
jjesse | cause when i teach during the lab time i'm usually doing other things that i don't want to disaply to all the students | 15:11 |
fdoving | jjesse: then you need a projector-laptop and a secret-websurfing-during-class laptop :) | 15:23 |
jjesse | fdoving: yeah that would be nice wouldn't it :) | 15:29 |
nixternal | mornin' Kubuntu'ites! | 16:22 |
Jucato | Kubuntites :) | 16:25 |
Jucato | (like Canaanites and Hittites :) | 16:25 |
nixternal | hehe | 16:25 |
Jucato | nixternal: I might ask you next week what doc-type projects we have planned for Kubuntu :) | 16:29 |
nixternal | Jucato: how about an entire rewrite for Kubuntu docs? | 16:31 |
Jucato | O.o | 16:31 |
Jucato | wow | 16:31 |
nixternal | which we could definitely use your help on | 16:31 |
nixternal | we have to do KDE 4 docs for Kubuntu, and on top of that, I have about 50 docs to write for KDE 4 | 16:31 |
Jucato | sure. since I've realized and convinced myself that I suck at debian packaging, and my C++ fu is not up to par... I think I can help with docs a bit | 16:32 |
nixternal | so start playing with docbook now, because I am putting you to work for Intrepid | 16:32 |
Jucato | lol I might use a different system :P | 16:32 |
nixternal | I could care less what you use honestly :) | 16:32 |
* Jucato is trying to avoid learning docbook directly first :P | 16:32 | |
Jucato | asciidoc actually... then output to docbook | 16:32 |
nixternal | docbook is easy...it is like learning html | 16:32 |
Jucato | oh that's the perfect statement to discourage me :) | 16:33 |
nixternal | ahh, I haven't played with asciidoc yet, but I hear people talking about it | 16:33 |
Jucato | since I just realized that I desperately needed to upgrade my brain to XHTML 1.1 and CSS2 :) | 16:33 |
nixternal | I would love to have a functioning moinmoin -> docbook plugin | 16:33 |
nixternal | but that hasn't happened in 2 years | 16:33 |
nixternal | CSS2? CSS3 will be out in the next year or so | 16:34 |
Jucato | nixternal: CSS1 was my last glance at the beast :P | 16:34 |
nixternal | heh, I suck at CSS honestly, I just poke around until it works | 16:34 |
Jucato | oh and I'd love an html->docbook converter.. maybe asciidoc will be my panacea :) | 16:34 |
nixternal | I think we should write docs in LaTeX | 16:34 |
nixternal | I think my new favorite app is Kile | 16:35 |
Jucato | Kile and Kate :) | 16:35 |
nixternal | speaking of Kate, I need to finish writing the xml plugins for Kate 4 | 16:35 |
nixternal | http://giss.tv:8000/guademy.ogg | 16:36 |
nixternal | they are talking about Akonadi | 16:36 |
nixternal | wstephenson that is | 16:36 |
Jucato | heheh good he didn't get booed out :P | 16:37 |
Jucato | are you attending akadec/gaudemy if it ever happens? | 16:37 |
nixternal | gaudemy is going on right now | 16:38 |
nixternal | that is a live link | 16:38 |
Jucato | oh right | 16:39 |
nixternal | haha, developers, developers, developers! | 16:39 |
Jucato | hm.. guademy. that's not the planned Akademy + Guadec in one place right? | 16:39 |
Jucato | at least not yet? | 16:39 |
nixternal | umm, I think so | 16:40 |
Jucato | because the call for suggestions was for 2009... now I'm confused :) | 16:40 |
Jucato | anyway... :) | 16:40 |
nixternal | hrmm, there is another one they are working on as well | 16:40 |
nixternal | Guademy is quit small, I think 110 people max | 16:40 |
Jucato | ah ok. different one then | 16:40 |
nixternal | quite | 16:41 |
nixternal | can't speel this morning | 16:41 |
Jucato | ovbiousyl | 16:42 |
Jucato | er. obvsiously | 16:42 |
nixternal | haha | 16:42 |
Jucato | hm... | 16:42 |
Jucato | right.. I'm sleepy :) | 16:42 |
apachelogger | ladies and gentleman, I present you: Kubuntu 8.04's worst bug | 17:03 |
apachelogger | bug #203349 | 17:03 |
ubotu | Launchpad bug 203349 in language-pack-kde-ru "Broken plural forms in KDE" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203349 | 17:03 |
apachelogger | This astonishing bug is effecting _all_ language packs and at least 4 of our stock KDE 3 applications | 17:05 |
apachelogger | It indeed deserves the title "Worst Bug" | 17:05 |
apachelogger | and it makes me wonder whether it makes any sense besides breaking... to import already translated applications into rosetta | 17:06 |
ScottK | I just filed my first KDE4 bug. KDE Bug 161308 | 17:06 |
ubotu | KDE bug 161308 in general "Number of games played increments both when a game is started and when a game ends" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161308 | 17:06 |
smarter | apachelogger: worksforme with Frenchy KDE | 17:07 |
apachelogger | smarter: in amarok? | 17:08 |
smarter | apachelogger: no problem | 17:10 |
apachelogger | cool, but strange | 17:11 |
smarter | oh, I just found it | 17:12 |
* apachelogger purges the french languagepack again :P | 17:13 | |
smarter | I didn't see it before because I was listening to a lastfm flux, and you can't edit them | 17:13 |
apachelogger | ic | 17:14 |
smarter | well, it's not that bad | 17:14 |
smarter | at least in amarok, it's only one right-click item which has this bug | 17:15 |
=== kitterma is now known as ScottK2 | ||
smarter | and I remember having this bug(in Amarok too) some times ago | 17:17 |
smarter | I'm not sure if it has been reintroduced recently or if it was always there | 17:17 |
apachelogger | smarter: in dolphin it's the statusbar | 17:17 |
apachelogger | which is visible all the time | 17:17 |
ScottK2 | Riddell: Are you aware of http://www.kde.org/info/security/advisory-20080426-2.txt | 17:17 |
smarter | apachelogger: no problem with the status bar | 17:17 |
apachelogger | and that amarok right click menu is the most used one I think | 17:17 |
smarter | dolphin3 ? | 17:17 |
smarter | d3lphin actually | 17:17 |
apachelogger | smarter: only happens on delete or something | 17:17 |
apachelogger | ...only KDE 3 apps are imported into rosetta ;-) | 17:18 |
smarter | I created and deleted a file and no problem | 17:18 |
smarter | but you should test with alpha 2 or 3, I'm sure this bug has happened before and maybe it has been corrected and reintroduced recently | 17:21 |
apachelogger | happens in de | 17:22 |
apachelogger | interessting | 17:23 |
apachelogger | it doesn't happen in fr | 17:23 |
smarter | with what app? | 17:23 |
apachelogger | d3lphin | 17:23 |
smarter | yes, I saw the bug for Adept some times ago too | 17:24 |
smarter | but I don't remember having it with KTorrent | 17:24 |
ligemeget | apachelogger, I can confirm it in da | 17:25 |
ligemeget | I was actually discussing it w/ other translators in another channel earlier - we thought it was our fault :) | 17:26 |
apachelogger | ligemeget: did you only notice in amarok or d3lphin as well? | 17:27 |
ligemeget | apachelogger, where in d3lphin? | 17:30 |
apachelogger | ligemeget: dolphin, the file manager | 17:30 |
ligemeget | I've only got Dolphin 0.9.2 | 17:31 |
apachelogger | kde 3 version is called d3lphin | 17:31 |
apachelogger | yes | 17:31 |
apachelogger | that one :P | 17:31 |
ligemeget | ah, ok | 17:31 |
apachelogger | ligemeget: if you just open it | 17:31 |
apachelogger | in the statusbar | 17:31 |
apachelogger | smarter: fr for d3lphin is correct indeed | 17:31 |
apachelogger | I am wondering why though | 17:31 |
ligemeget | apachelogger, in the bottom status bar it just says "19 items (11 Folders, 8 Files)" - it's not even translated! | 17:32 |
smarter | ligemeget: translated here, blame the translators ;) | 17:32 |
apachelogger | ah | 17:32 |
apachelogger | oh | 17:32 |
apachelogger | Current German[0]: Copy text | 17:32 |
apachelogger | Ein Element# | 17:32 |
apachelogger | Current German[1]: | 17:32 |
apachelogger | (no translation yet) | 17:32 |
apachelogger | English singular: Copy text | 17:33 |
apachelogger | 1 Item | 17:33 |
apachelogger | this would mean | 17:33 |
apachelogger | smarter: I think that issue is even far more complex than I thought | 17:33 |
apachelogger | it appears for amarok in every language apparently | 17:34 |
ligemeget | shall I add language-pack-kde-da to the bug? | 17:34 |
apachelogger | because amarok is having the same string as non-plural and as singular form for a plural combination | 17:34 |
apachelogger | ligemeget: I already did, you can just add a comment about it | 17:34 |
apachelogger | and | 17:35 |
apachelogger | if there is no plural translation for a string which should be plural form | 17:35 |
apachelogger | rosetta only exports the non-plural translation | 17:35 |
apachelogger | which breaks the syntax | 17:35 |
smarter | apachelogger: maybe we should ask the devs in #launchpad | 17:37 |
smarter | but why does it only affects kde3 apps? | 17:37 |
apachelogger | smarter: because we don't import KDE 4 apps into rosetta right now | 17:37 |
apachelogger | I think at least ;-) | 17:38 |
smarter | yes, but the gnome/xfce folks don't seem to have any problem | 17:38 |
apachelogger | KDE has a special way of handling the plural stuff AFAIK | 17:38 |
apachelogger | earlier rosetta didn't even recognize it as plural forms which lead to most awesome broken translations as well | 17:39 |
smarter | ugh | 17:39 |
smarter | go in #launchpad and kill someone ;) | 17:39 |
apachelogger | none around right now | 17:40 |
apachelogger | first I will aggregate more information | 17:40 |
apachelogger | and this stuff needs to be topic for UDS | 17:40 |
ligemeget | Anyone here who can open http://www.rommedahlen.dk/musik/Wongraven.mp3 ? | 17:40 |
apachelogger | the whole rosetta import is causing mostly issues | 17:41 |
apachelogger | may it be because rosetta fcks something up | 17:41 |
apachelogger | or because the language teams change translations | 17:41 |
apachelogger | I really see no reason for the latter | 17:41 |
apachelogger | KDE is having pretty strong QA for l10n | 17:41 |
apachelogger | smarter: intressting fact, in upstream d3lphin msgid "1 Item" and msgid "%1 Items" are 2 seperate strings | 17:43 |
apachelogger | and not a plural combination | 17:43 |
smarter | we shouldn't use LP for l10n in the first place imho... | 17:43 |
apachelogger | ---> we <--- indeed shouldn't | 17:44 |
apachelogger | it makes sense for upstream projects | 17:44 |
apachelogger | like when d3lphin chooses to use rosetta for translation it's ok | 17:45 |
apachelogger | but there is absolutely no reason why we, as distributor, should modify translations unless they are completely wrong | 17:45 |
ligemeget | The Danish Amarok translation blows IMHO, but I'm taking that complaint elsewhere :) | 17:46 |
apachelogger | da 0 0 0 100 % | 17:46 |
apachelogger | but complete :D | 17:46 |
apachelogger | http://aplg.kollide.net/amarok/l10n/amarok-1.4.9.1.html | 17:46 |
Nightrose | IMHO it is a waste of workforce (unless you hope they will get from translation to other parts of *ubuntu) | 17:46 |
apachelogger | Nightrose: at it's best it is limiting workforce | 17:47 |
apachelogger | when someone translates a new application to german, while upstream doesn't even have one | 17:47 |
apachelogger | it makes some sort of sense for us | 17:47 |
smarter | what is a "fuzzy" string? | 17:47 |
Nightrose | apachelogger: yea sure | 17:47 |
apachelogger | but who will push it upstream? | 17:47 |
apachelogger | none does | 17:47 |
nixternal | I added info to the team report for us - anything you can think of that you feel needs to be added, speak up now or forever hold your peace | 17:47 |
* smarter only knows fuzzy pop | 17:47 | |
apachelogger | so it is highly unsocial | 17:47 |
apachelogger | smarter: fuzzy strings are kind of translations which need a review | 17:48 |
smarter | ok, thanks | 17:48 |
apachelogger | for example when I change an exisitng string in Amarok, existing translations which will be marked fuzzy so the translators review it whether they need to change the translation as well | 17:48 |
apachelogger | nixternal: KDE 4 is tha awesomest | 17:49 |
nixternal | Riddell: for Intrepid I say we maintain a team report page where we can update it as we hack on stuff, making it easier to transfer to the community page | 17:50 |
nixternal | I will setup a wiki page just for it - time we start collaborating a little more outside of IRC :) | 17:50 |
* ScottK2 barely manages status reports for paid work when they are contractually required. The odds of me doing on a volunteer basis aren't very high. | 17:51 | |
nixternal | ScottK2: you are the one I really wanted status stuff from actually in regards to guidance because you busted your ass on it | 17:52 |
nixternal | all i put on the report was 'Guidance fixes' :) couldn't remember them all | 17:52 |
smarter | nixternal: aptitude changelog kde-guidance | 17:53 |
nixternal | smarter: your name fits you well, cuz that didn't even pop into my head as of yet :) | 17:53 |
ScottK2 | nixternal: I did a lot on that, but awen did quite a bit and smarter's contribution was quite important too. | 17:54 |
smarter | nixternal: thanks ;) | 17:55 |
ScottK2 | nixternal: For displayconfig, the short version is took it from non-functional and crashing with modern Xorg and display adapters to generally functional for single screen configurations. | 17:56 |
ScottK2 | awen got brightness control to be generally working and reliable. | 17:56 |
ScottK2 | All of the guidance modules seem to be pretty stable. | 17:56 |
ScottK2 | That wasn't always the case. | 17:56 |
ScottK2 | Also got apport fixed so it wouldn't crash when trying to report guidance crashes so we actually were getting bugs when bud stuff happend. | 17:57 |
nixternal | ok, added all of that | 17:58 |
ScottK2 | I'd leave out the bit about accidentally changing the api and causing about half a dozen other packages to start breaking the week before the RC. | 17:59 |
smarter | :P | 17:59 |
smarter | nixternal: and I got it not to stop working when HAL is restarted(happens when it's upgraded) | 17:59 |
nixternal | I added all of the changelog stuff for april, except for the part where pitti reversed one of our patches :) | 18:00 |
nixternal | keep the "oops, our bad" stuff out of there :) | 18:00 |
nixternal | politican rocks! | 18:00 |
ScottK2 | smarter: Good point about the hal stuff. | 18:00 |
txwikinger | Wenn will the first intrepid repo be available? | 18:01 |
ScottK2 | Generally it's 2 -3 weeks after release. | 18:03 |
=== neversfelde_ is now known as neversfelde | ||
ligemeget | In other news: Kopete-Windows Live Messenger cannot send/receive files | 18:05 |
yuriy | anyone want to consider bug 222141 a bug? | 18:05 |
ubotu | Launchpad bug 222141 in kdepim "Color of Items changed after upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/222141 | 18:05 |
nixternal | ScottK2: didn't they open the tool chain right about UDS time last release? | 18:08 |
nixternal | actually, I think they had the toolchain in place before UDS | 18:08 |
ScottK2 | Yes, but UDS was closer to release. | 18:08 |
nixternal | txwikinger: also keep an eye on lists.ubuntu.com, when you see the intrepid-changes list, the toolchain has begun :) | 18:08 |
ScottK2 | UDS was ~2 weeks after release, not a nearly a month. | 18:08 |
txwikinger | nixternal: will do | 18:09 |
nixternal | ScottK2: that is true | 18:09 |
nixternal | ScottK2: you going to this UDS? | 18:09 |
txwikinger | Is it already decided where the UDS in fall will be? | 18:10 |
nixternal | yup | 18:10 |
ScottK2 | nixternal: Yes. | 18:10 |
nixternal | damn you :) | 18:10 |
nixternal | jono and jcastro were telling me to pay my parking tickets so I can get my passport :) | 18:11 |
ligemeget | where? | 18:11 |
nixternal | tell Canonical to pay them :p | 18:11 |
nixternal | ligemeget: where what? | 18:11 |
yuriy | this UDS is in a month? | 18:11 |
nixternal | yuriy: ya | 18:11 |
nixternal | in Prague, mhb's backyard | 18:11 |
ligemeget | Just curious about the UDS :) | 18:11 |
ligemeget | ah | 18:12 |
txwikinger | nixternal: where? | 18:12 |
nixternal | the next UDS? no clue, that won't be announced for about another 4 months | 18:13 |
txwikinger | Ah | 18:13 |
txwikinger | well.. I don't know where I will be at that time either :D | 18:13 |
nixternal | we sent Claire a proposal for the University of Illinois @ Chicago, but they said "nah, thanks anyways" :) | 18:13 |
nixternal | typically they do the spring/1st quarter UDS in Europe and the fall/4th quarter UDS in the US...hopefully it stays that way :) | 18:14 |
* nixternal goes to O'Hare | 18:17 | |
nixternal | cya | 18:17 |
yao_ziyuan | have to say a bug :) | 19:50 |
yao_ziyuan | in kubuntu you create a new user but it can't log into a new kde session | 19:50 |
yao_ziyuan | in a gnome desktop you can create such a new user | 19:50 |
yao_ziyuan | i mean 8.04 | 19:51 |
karaluh | hello | 19:59 |
andrew_ | I am having problems with nfs-client. Anyone know what's wrong ? | 19:59 |
coreymon77 | andrew_: devel != support | 19:59 |
andrew_ | nfs reports "internal error" | 20:00 |
karaluh | coreymon77: i'm here | 20:01 |
coreymon77 | karaluh: ya, im not a developer, i jsut hang around here | 20:03 |
coreymon77 | :P | 20:03 |
karaluh | ok, so i'll ask here | 20:03 |
andrew_ | A server | 20:04 |
karaluh | after upgrade i've got unbootable 2.6.24 kernel | 20:04 |
coreymon77 | andrew_: development does not mean support, youd be better off asking in the regular #kubuntu channel | 20:04 |
karaluh | it gives kernel panic VFS unable to mount root | 20:05 |
karaluh | old gutsy kernel drops to busybox without any disk devices | 20:06 |
karaluh | i reverted 2.6.22 initramfs to the one gutsy generated and it went ok | 20:07 |
karaluh | then i did update-initramfs the 2.6.22 which also worked | 20:08 |
karaluh | but the 2.6.24 doesn't work | 20:08 |
karaluh | i've tried both generic and 386 | 20:09 |
fdoving | hah, adept dist-upgrader is smart. it tells me i'm upgrading over ssh and starts an extra ssh daemon just in case. impressive :) | 21:23 |
uga | fdoving: and what happens if it needs to upgrade sshd in the process? | 21:48 |
fdoving | sshd will be upgraded. but it won't be restarted without first asking. | 21:49 |
fdoving | atleast that is true in debian, and i hope this feature also is available in the graphical client. | 21:49 |
uga | ah nice | 21:50 |
fdoving | s/client/dist-upgrader/ | 21:50 |
=== _krawek_ is now known as krawek | ||
mhb | apachelogger: you here? | 22:16 |
apachelogger | Nightrose: am I here? | 22:17 |
mhb | apachelogger: your blog post was quite confusing, to say the least :-) | 22:17 |
Nightrose | you are apachelogger | 22:17 |
apachelogger | mhb: I am | 22:17 |
Nightrose | mhb: but good | 22:17 |
Nightrose | ;-) | 22:17 |
apachelogger | mhb: as long as tristan gets it :P | 22:17 |
jussio1 | hehe | 22:17 |
mhb | well the first thing I thought when I read it was: 2 days before Ubuntu releases? that means we won't be able to get the latest amarok in | 22:18 |
mhb | or is that just an ironic joke I didn't get? | 22:18 |
mhb | apachelogger: please explain :-) | 22:20 |
smarter | Is there something real in what you say?(e.g. two releases by year) | 22:21 |
mhb | I also wonder | 22:22 |
Nightrose | mhb: http://useopensource.blogspot.com/2008/04/synching-open-source-release-schedule.html | 22:23 |
Nightrose | in case you have not seen it | 22:23 |
apachelogger | smarter: we usually have 4-6 releases per year | 22:24 |
smarter | so, I can safely ignore that blog post? ;) | 22:24 |
apachelogger | and usually 2 of them are just before kubuntu goes in freeze and at least 1 other is by request from another distribution | 22:24 |
apachelogger | smarter: yes | 22:24 |
mhb | well there's no amarok2 for how long? :-) | 22:24 |
mhb | if you just ported amarok1 to KDE4 and then started refactoring the code and adding features one by one... | 22:25 |
mhb | but oh well, it seems you know everything so well that you can afford to write sarcastic replies, unlike us mortals | 22:25 |
apachelogger | mhb: would it still not have been finished within 6 months | 22:25 |
apachelogger | also | 22:25 |
apachelogger | adding features one by one is really really hard when you have to relay on the amarok1 base | 22:26 |
apachelogger | because it is crap | 22:26 |
mhb | you wrote it .o) | 22:26 |
apachelogger | mhb: started in 2002 | 22:26 |
mhb | don't forget the "second system effect" | 22:26 |
apachelogger | mhb: ? | 22:26 |
mhb | that's when you write something good, but you see all those flaws, so you start anew on a "second system" by trying to evade all your previous mistakes | 22:27 |
mhb | the result tends to be much, much worse | 22:27 |
mhb | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_system_effect | 22:28 |
mhb | efers to the tendency to design the successor to a relatively small, elegant, and successful system as an elephantine, feature-laden monstrosity. | 22:28 |
mhb | and I must admit amarok1 was relatively small, elegant... and definitely successful | 22:29 |
mhb | and all those plasmoids and SVGs... | 22:29 |
mhb | well, I haven't made this rule up :-) | 22:29 |
apachelogger | that saied | 22:29 |
apachelogger | you are not target user group | 22:29 |
* Nightrose has the feeling mhb has "new=bad" somewhere tatooed on his back ;-) | 22:30 | |
apachelogger | I think we should everyone to a marketing workshop one day | 22:30 |
Nightrose | hehe good idea | 22:30 |
mhb | Nightrose: did I write that article? :-) I tend to be skeptical, yes | 22:30 |
Nightrose | apachelogger: let's do one at the next uds | 22:30 |
mhb | apachelogger: of course, I'm not | 22:30 |
apachelogger | Nightrose: yes | 22:30 |
mhb | apachelogger: the problem with feature-laden monstrosities is, nobody is | 22:30 |
smarter | SVGs and plasmoids don't seem badly designed, maybe a bit slow | 22:30 |
apachelogger | smarter: should be improving with qt 4.4 | 22:31 |
smarter | I've seen that | 22:31 |
smarter | Qt 4.3 + KDE 4.0 == unusable here | 22:31 |
apachelogger | mhb: market analysis don't agree with you | 22:31 |
smarter | Qt 4.4 + KDE 4.1 == almost as fast as KDE 3.5 | 22:31 |
mhb | apachelogger: which good project has started as a market analysis? :- | 22:32 |
mhb | :-) | 22:32 |
apachelogger | mhb: amarok2 | 22:32 |
apachelogger | Nightrose: what was the overall comment on amarok2 @ cebit? | 22:33 |
mhb | UNIX was never a market analysis, google in its roots was just a bunch of young guys | 22:33 |
Nightrose | apachelogger: amarok 2 = awesome | 22:33 |
mhb | they ended up big | 22:33 |
apachelogger | right | 22:33 |
Nightrose | mhb: you still have to know what your target audience is | 22:34 |
apachelogger | amarok just started | 22:34 |
mhb | not because their target users were happy | 22:34 |
jussio1 | is amarok 2 in hardy? | 22:34 |
Nightrose | otherwise you will screw up | 22:34 |
apachelogger | no audience and crap | 22:34 |
apachelogger | baby steps, right? | 22:34 |
mhb | Nightrose: like those guys did, right? :-) | 22:34 |
mhb | Nightrose: or Linus, he also cared about the market | 22:34 |
Nightrose | mhb: I am sure they knew exactly who they are doing it for | 22:34 |
mhb | Nightrose: in the end, he screwed up big time :-) | 22:34 |
apachelogger | mhb: maybe you should write a mail to linus | 22:34 |
mhb | right, I should write to him about how he's not targetting the audience correctly | 22:35 |
apachelogger | whether he cares about the market or he just does whatever he feels like even if it breaks kernel big time | 22:35 |
smarter | :D | 22:35 |
Nightrose | jussio1: probably only the techpreview which is outdated | 22:35 |
mhb | I'm sure he'd agree with you too | 22:35 |
apachelogger | mhb: he is | 22:35 |
apachelogger | big time actually | 22:35 |
jussio1 | Nightrose: / apachelogger where can I get a current .deb ? | 22:35 |
fdoving | mhb: i vote for you :) | 22:36 |
smarter | jussio1: amarok2 current deb? | 22:36 |
apachelogger | jussi01: not at all | 22:36 |
smarter | there's a PPA | 22:36 |
jussio1 | :/ | 22:36 |
jussio1 | smarter: there is? | 22:36 |
smarter | yes | 22:36 |
apachelogger | there is? | 22:36 |
jussio1 | how up to date is it? | 22:36 |
smarter | http://ppa.launchpad.net/amarok-nightly/ubuntu | 22:37 |
smarter | I don't use it so I don't really know | 22:38 |
apachelogger | out of date | 22:38 |
jussio1 | cool | 22:38 |
apachelogger | and broken | 22:38 |
jussio1 | oh... | 22:38 |
jussio1 | :/ | 22:38 |
apachelogger | especially broken | 22:38 |
mhb | apachelogger: don't forget about what made you popular in the first place | 22:40 |
apachelogger | mhb: so you suggest we should forget about the biggest market and make the nerds geeks happy? | 22:41 |
mhb | apachelogger: by concentrating on converting some other user bases from the XYZ music player to Amarok2, you'll not only fail in doing it, you'll lose your current popularity, too | 22:41 |
mhb | I'm sure the people at Netscape were all "target audience" too, when Mozilla started to dominate them | 22:42 |
mhb | they were only catching up... and you know how it ends | 22:42 |
jussio1 | nerd geeks ftw! | 22:42 |
apachelogger | mhb: haha | 22:43 |
apachelogger | ultimately | 22:43 |
apachelogger | kubuntu/ubuntu is already dead | 22:43 |
apachelogger | because it is targeting for a market which is filled with a gigantic thing fullfilling all the target audience needs | 22:43 |
apachelogger | I hereby suggest a change of target audience for UDS | 22:43 |
apachelogger | we should make kubuntu a dev environment | 22:44 |
apachelogger | much easier to be successful there | 22:44 |
mhb | right, actually... we don't care about what our userbase is | 22:44 |
mhb | we don't care about potential users that would switch if we were 100% the same like Windows | 22:44 |
apachelogger | mhb: you are suggesting amarok2 is 100% like itunes or wmp? | 22:45 |
mhb | you could *never* make those happy. Same with Amarok2. | 22:45 |
mhb | no, it'll never have the flawless HW integration iTunes have... as for wmp, I don't use that at all. | 22:45 |
Nightrose | why will it never? | 22:46 |
Nightrose | because itunes forces vendor lockin on its users? | 22:46 |
apachelogger | Nightrose: because it won't | 22:46 |
mhb | yep | 22:46 |
Nightrose | is that your point? | 22:46 |
apachelogger | and that was not an answer to my question | 22:46 |
mhb | and they do it terribly well | 22:46 |
apachelogger | but instead answered what mhb is out for | 22:46 |
mhb | also | 22:46 |
apachelogger | he thinks amarok 2 is trying to become itunes/wmp | 22:46 |
Nightrose | meh... | 22:47 |
mhb | no, I think your "target audience" are those guys | 22:47 |
mhb | and you'll never get them to switch | 22:47 |
mhb | trust me | 22:47 |
mhb | it's the same like Windows vs. Linux on a different scale | 22:47 |
apachelogger | mhb: how do you know what our target auience is? | 22:47 |
Nightrose | mhb: you can be sure that we put _a lot_ of thought into all this | 22:47 |
mhb | when people want Windows, you can't convince them | 22:48 |
Nightrose | this is not just some random brainf**k... | 22:48 |
mhb | Nightrose: I know you did. Second system effect is all about overthinking. | 22:49 |
Nightrose | oO | 22:49 |
Nightrose | so it is wrong not to think about it but also wrong to think about it? | 22:49 |
* Nightrose is confused | 22:49 | |
apachelogger | nah | 22:50 |
apachelogger | just keep things like they are | 22:50 |
apachelogger | the never change a running system concept | 22:50 |
mhb | Nightrose: hmm, so you think there's only that? | 22:50 |
Nightrose | ah ok | 22:50 |
mhb | Nightrose: not thinking and thinking too much? | 22:50 |
mhb | Nightrose: I don't think so. | 22:50 |
jussio1 | apachelogger: ok, so where do I get this 8th wonder of the world?? | 22:50 |
Nightrose | mhb: that is what I understood so far from what you are saying | 22:50 |
apachelogger | jussi01: not yet :P | 22:51 |
Nightrose | jussio1: you will need to compile | 22:51 |
Nightrose | including kde | 22:51 |
apachelogger | yes | 22:51 |
jussio1 | bleh... | 22:51 |
apachelogger | highly unrecommandable since plasma is b0rked :P | 22:51 |
Nightrose | right | 22:51 |
smarter | it's still borked? | 22:51 |
jussio1 | 1 thing ok... kde... | 22:51 |
jussio1 | meh | 22:51 |
smarter | and Qt | 22:51 |
jussio1 | ok, too hard for now... | 22:51 |
smarter | it's not that hard with kdesvn-build | 22:51 |
smarter | it just takes time | 22:52 |
mhb | strangely enough, the basic interface of iTunes ( a software I like a bit) is very simplistic, much like amarok1's | 22:52 |
mhb | no bling | 22:52 |
Nightrose | mhb: the interface is horrible - sorry | 22:52 |
=== __Czessi is now known as Czessi | ||
Nightrose | I used it a few weeks ago | 22:52 |
jussio1 | smarter: maybe when I get my precision workstation... | 22:52 |
Nightrose | and it was just plain horrible | 22:52 |
apachelogger | mhb: why do you always compare us with $player? | 22:52 |
mhb | apachelogger: because that's what you do | 22:53 |
mhb | apachelogger: calculate audiences | 22:53 |
mhb | apachelogger: ignore current user base | 22:53 |
mhb | etc. | 22:53 |
apachelogger | oh | 22:54 |
apachelogger | itunes does ignroe it's current user base? | 22:54 |
apachelogger | and calculate audiences? | 22:54 |
apachelogger | interessting enough that you say that like amarok2 is entering a completely unrelated market | 22:54 |
mhb | Nightrose: no, it's not | 22:54 |
apachelogger | while we are already there | 22:54 |
apachelogger | the whole amarok 1.4 development was made around exactly that market we want to address with amarok2 | 22:55 |
apachelogger | so you should not like amarok 1.4 either | 22:55 |
smarter | mhb: have you already tried amarok2? | 22:55 |
mhb | smarter: oh, do they have single install binaries for OS X yet? :-) | 22:56 |
mhb | ah, just teasing you | 22:56 |
smarter | I think some guy on planetkde is building KDE4 snapshots for OS X from time to time | 22:58 |
mhb | I have tried those way back | 22:58 |
mhb | they're too large | 22:59 |
mhb | really | 22:59 |
smarter | OS X is Evil anyway :) | 22:59 |
mhb | well, they're good | 23:00 |
mhb | good and evil at the same time | 23:00 |
mhb | smarter: if only our software was as good as theirs :-) | 23:01 |
jussio1 | apachelogger: have you got a screenshot of amarok 2? | 23:02 |
apachelogger | I don't have an installation right now | 23:03 |
apachelogger | Nightrose might have one at hand | 23:03 |
smarter | jussio1: there are some here: http://amarok.kde.org/en/node/458 | 23:03 |
jussio1 | thanks | 23:03 |
Nightrose | nope no install here either | 23:04 |
apachelogger | Nightrose: who's fault is that? | 23:04 |
Nightrose | mine ;-) | 23:04 |
Nightrose | in that case | 23:04 |
apachelogger | right | 23:04 |
apachelogger | I need a student | 23:04 |
* jussio1 cries... now I wish I hadnt seen it... :/ | 23:04 | |
apachelogger | for neon | 23:04 |
* smarter has an install here from two weeks ago, but it doesn't want to play music :) | 23:04 | |
Nightrose | hehe | 23:04 |
apachelogger | seriously | 23:04 |
smarter | jussio1: why? | 23:04 |
apachelogger | I can't get it running before july | 23:04 |
jussio1 | apachelogger: what requirements does this "student" need to have? | 23:05 |
jussio1 | smarter: I want it...bad ;) | 23:05 |
apachelogger | jussi01: interest in packaging, ruby skills and interst in amarok | 23:05 |
apachelogger | I'd say | 23:05 |
* smarter loves ruby | 23:05 | |
Nightrose | \O/ | 23:05 |
jussio1 | apachelogger: hrm... I have the first and last.... | 23:05 |
Nightrose | there you got your student apachelogger :P | 23:06 |
* txwikinger wonders if he counts as student | 23:06 | |
jussio1 | :/ | 23:06 |
apachelogger | Jucato: go get learn ruby then | 23:06 |
jussio1 | lol | 23:06 |
jussio1 | poor Jucato | 23:06 |
apachelogger | jussi01: even | 23:06 |
apachelogger | Jucato: sorry | 23:06 |
* apachelogger neads to beat Sput harder in order to get a fixed autocompletion | 23:06 | |
smarter | Dah best online book: http://poignantguide.net/ruby/whatisit.html | 23:06 |
jussio1 | apachelogger: ill beat him with you | 23:07 |
apachelogger | smarter, txwikinger, jussi01: so whom of you will it be? | 23:07 |
* jussio1 hugs smarter | 23:07 | |
jussio1 | apachelogger: i got to go learn ruby first... | 23:07 |
apachelogger | technically said | 23:08 |
smarter | I don't have a lot of ruby knowledge (spend the last months reading C++ Primer :)) | 23:08 |
apachelogger | jussi01 could do the packaging and smarter the ruby one :P | 23:08 |
jussio1 | :P | 23:09 |
smarter | packaging as in debian packaging? | 23:09 |
apachelogger | yes | 23:09 |
apachelogger | smarter: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/extragear/multimedia/amarok/supplementary_scripts/neon/distros/ubuntu.rb?revision=795567&view=markup | 23:09 |
apachelogger | it's not very complex code | 23:09 |
jussio1 | apachelogger: did you like my comment to sput? :P | 23:09 |
smarter | and what needs love in this code? | 23:10 |
txwikinger | apachelogger: I figured out how to get the weather widget.. however it doesn't work | 23:10 |
apachelogger | smarter: well, ubuntu.rb needs refactoring IMO | 23:10 |
apachelogger | the design is too complex | 23:10 |
apachelogger | and beside that the ruby part is pretty much finished anyway | 23:10 |
apachelogger | but there are some packaging issues | 23:10 |
apachelogger | taglib and strigi don't want to build properly for some reason | 23:11 |
=== uga_ is now known as uga | ||
apachelogger | maybe it was only an issue with the ppa that day | 23:11 |
* txwikinger wonders why he seriously answers ndivia questions in Spanish | 23:11 | |
smarter | or maybe it was an issue with taglib/strigi were broken that day? | 23:12 |
apachelogger | unlikely | 23:12 |
apachelogger | I revued the cmake files | 23:12 |
apachelogger | there were no issues | 23:12 |
smarter | what does the log says? | 23:12 |
apachelogger | linking error | 23:13 |
apachelogger | sec | 23:13 |
apachelogger | smarter: https://edge.launchpad.net/~project-neon/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all | 23:13 |
smarter | and what did you change between amarok10 and amarok12? | 23:16 |
apachelogger | smarter: new builds | 23:16 |
smarter | off to bed, 'night everybody | 23:22 |
apachelogger | nini | 23:22 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!