=== gnomefre1k is now known as gnomefreak [02:13] I've just been trying to set up avahi and the enable_avahi script is missing from /usr/share/avahi - does anyone know where I can get it from? [02:37] I figured out that all it does is write a line to /etc/default/avahi-daemon and then start the init.d process which I have done and can't see my other machines services let alone this machines [03:24] hola [03:25] alguien me puede ayudar en una tarea? [03:25] !es [03:25] Aquí solamente hablamos inglés. Para Español, por favor entre en los canales #ubuntu-es o #kubuntu-es - allí obtendrá más ayuda. [04:13] is kubuntu 8.04 using kde4, or kde3 default? [04:20] default is kde3 [05:02] default is whatever you download :p [05:03] you download Kubuntu 8.04 you get KDE, you download the Remix, you get KDE 4 [05:03] and who in their right mind enjoys doing a code walkthrough? [05:09] When it's someone else's crap code and you don't like them? [05:13] Is there a metapackage for all the kde4 games? [05:14] kdegames-kde4 ? [05:15] * ScottK tries [05:15] well, that seems exist anyway [05:15] * stdin should really know [05:16] Yep. That was it. [05:17] Thanks. [05:18] :) [05:24] ScottK: actually all of the code was very well written...funny thing is I wrote a module where it reviewed high, but my brain was toast, and I was feeling e.tarded [05:24] I couldn't make sense of my own comments..just needed sleep [05:26] K. Just offering that as a scenario that might be fun. [05:26] Speaking of needing sleep ... [05:26] Good night all. [05:46] ScottK: ahh, just totally grasped what you said up there...that would be fun :) anywho, g'nite to you as well === wolfger_ is now known as wolfger [11:12] is it me or do we need a good theme for KDE4 KDM? [11:12] kwwii: ^ [11:12] well [11:12] we cannot count on him, he is too busy with his job [11:12] but I meant in general [11:13] look around, see what is available, do some branding... [11:13] perhaps offer a bit similar look to what Ubuntu is offering [11:13] * mhb has to check how gdm actually looks like these days [11:17] jpatrick: how are you doing these days? [11:18] mhb: not too good, but surviving [11:19] jpatrick: hmm, bad [11:19] mhb: am loving coding in Python tho, how about yourself? [11:22] jpatrick: I am not doing much coding recently, a bit C sharp, but I am not liking that :o) [11:23] mhb: I have to do VB at school, but I always have firefox in the background with docs.python.org opened [11:26] jpatrick: VB is even more evil than C Sharp [11:26] so true [11:26] jpatrick: so you are coming to UDS? [11:27] mhb: hopefully, depends on when the money comes, but I'm doing what I can [11:27] jpatrick: splendid! What are your plans for intrepid? Meaning stuff you want to take part of yourself... [11:29] mhb: hmm, haven't really thought of it yet.. [11:30] okay [11:31] mhb: hopefully some coding :) [11:33] but with no internet at home, things get tricky. [11:33] well that is not true :-) [11:34] I was also coding without internet for some time [11:34] you can install all the documentation you need as packages [11:34] python, qt3, qt4... you name it [11:34] ah, that reminds me [11:36] well, library's closing.. best be off.. :( [11:37] see you [11:37] * jpatrick has all docs waiting for him [11:38] mhb: ps. some example code of mine ;) http://www.cli-apps.org/content/show.php?content=79678 [11:39] * mhb checks it out [11:41] interesting [11:41] * jpatrick uses it basically to store his passwords 'safely' [11:45] bye for now [11:46] bye [13:02] Wo edits the website? They have the link to the English DVD ISO server wrong. [13:02] who* [13:02] It should be http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/kubuntu/releases/8.04/release/ [13:31] morning :) [13:32] Good morning :) [13:32] (well... aftenoon actually..) [13:32] hello ligemeget === Timmy is now known as TimS [13:36] my hat's off to the Kubuntu website - even though I don't like some of the colors, in terms of news and general design it still pwns ubuntu.com :) [13:36] i know they are working on making some further changes to it [13:38] Reading the mailing list, I've gotten the impression that the kubuntu-devs were relatively short on manpower..? [13:43] Sorry, got kicked off while installing kubuntu-desktop :) [13:53] ligemeget: we could use a helping hand, yes ;-) [13:54] Nightrose, I'm about to get used to Kubuntu - then I may introduce myself to the devel-list. Although I really don't know really much programming yet (unfortunately mostly Java) I'm willing to read up on it :) [13:54] :) great [13:54] you can also do packaging, documentation, bug hunting for example [13:55] if you don't want to program [13:56] But I want to program, actually - since it's what I'm studying, so I guess helping out Kubuntu would be great learning [13:56] Also, is your Documentation part of the ubuntu-docs team? [13:56] bug hunting would be great as well [13:56] ligemeget: yes it is [13:57] myself and nixternal head up the documetnation for kubuntu [13:57] as part of uuntu-docs [13:57] do you also use help.ubuntu.com wiki? [13:57] yes [13:57] i had a question about bug triaging : what does it take for a bugs status to change to Confirmed? [13:58] okay - then I could probably do something there as well [13:58] devilsadvocat_: If someone else than the reporter is able to reproduce the bug [13:58] (...I think) [13:58] devilsadvocate_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status [13:59] brb, reboot to KDE :D === mp__ is now known as ligemeget [14:11] there [14:11] lovely [14:11] Now Amarok is in KDE, where it belongs :) [14:16] Any doc guys here? [15:00] did TimS leave? [15:01] yes [15:02] but still in #kde-docs [15:10] jjesse: RE your blog post on external monitors: You might ask bryce if your driver/X support what you are trying to do. He can probably give you a hint on which way to get it done. === mcas|away is now known as mcas [15:10] ScottK: thanks it would be disappointing if i can't, one of the reasons i still keep iwndows on my laptop [15:10] He just started a wiki page on configuring X and it'd be a useful addition if you could come up with a HOWTO once you've got it. [15:10] would love to write it up [15:11] i hate "sharing" my desktopw hen i use a projector [15:11] So tell him that and ask for some pointers. [15:11] cause when i teach during the lab time i'm usually doing other things that i don't want to disaply to all the students [15:23] jjesse: then you need a projector-laptop and a secret-websurfing-during-class laptop :) [15:29] fdoving: yeah that would be nice wouldn't it :) [16:22] mornin' Kubuntu'ites! [16:25] Kubuntites :) [16:25] (like Canaanites and Hittites :) [16:25] hehe [16:29] nixternal: I might ask you next week what doc-type projects we have planned for Kubuntu :) [16:31] Jucato: how about an entire rewrite for Kubuntu docs? [16:31] O.o [16:31] wow [16:31] which we could definitely use your help on [16:31] we have to do KDE 4 docs for Kubuntu, and on top of that, I have about 50 docs to write for KDE 4 [16:32] sure. since I've realized and convinced myself that I suck at debian packaging, and my C++ fu is not up to par... I think I can help with docs a bit [16:32] so start playing with docbook now, because I am putting you to work for Intrepid [16:32] lol I might use a different system :P [16:32] I could care less what you use honestly :) [16:32] * Jucato is trying to avoid learning docbook directly first :P [16:32] asciidoc actually... then output to docbook [16:32] docbook is easy...it is like learning html [16:33] oh that's the perfect statement to discourage me :) [16:33] ahh, I haven't played with asciidoc yet, but I hear people talking about it [16:33] since I just realized that I desperately needed to upgrade my brain to XHTML 1.1 and CSS2 :) [16:33] I would love to have a functioning moinmoin -> docbook plugin [16:33] but that hasn't happened in 2 years [16:34] CSS2? CSS3 will be out in the next year or so [16:34] nixternal: CSS1 was my last glance at the beast :P [16:34] heh, I suck at CSS honestly, I just poke around until it works [16:34] oh and I'd love an html->docbook converter.. maybe asciidoc will be my panacea :) [16:34] I think we should write docs in LaTeX [16:35] I think my new favorite app is Kile [16:35] Kile and Kate :) [16:35] speaking of Kate, I need to finish writing the xml plugins for Kate 4 [16:36] http://giss.tv:8000/guademy.ogg [16:36] they are talking about Akonadi [16:36] wstephenson that is [16:37] heheh good he didn't get booed out :P [16:37] are you attending akadec/gaudemy if it ever happens? [16:38] gaudemy is going on right now [16:38] that is a live link [16:39] oh right [16:39] haha, developers, developers, developers! [16:39] hm.. guademy. that's not the planned Akademy + Guadec in one place right? [16:39] at least not yet? [16:40] umm, I think so [16:40] because the call for suggestions was for 2009... now I'm confused :) [16:40] anyway... :) [16:40] hrmm, there is another one they are working on as well [16:40] Guademy is quit small, I think 110 people max [16:40] ah ok. different one then [16:41] quite [16:41] can't speel this morning [16:42] ovbiousyl [16:42] er. obvsiously [16:42] haha [16:42] hm... [16:42] right.. I'm sleepy :) [17:03] ladies and gentleman, I present you: Kubuntu 8.04's worst bug [17:03] bug #203349 [17:03] Launchpad bug 203349 in language-pack-kde-ru "Broken plural forms in KDE" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203349 [17:05] This astonishing bug is effecting _all_ language packs and at least 4 of our stock KDE 3 applications [17:05] It indeed deserves the title "Worst Bug" [17:06] and it makes me wonder whether it makes any sense besides breaking... to import already translated applications into rosetta [17:06] I just filed my first KDE4 bug. KDE Bug 161308 [17:06] KDE bug 161308 in general "Number of games played increments both when a game is started and when a game ends" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161308 [17:07] apachelogger: worksforme with Frenchy KDE [17:08] smarter: in amarok? [17:10] apachelogger: no problem [17:11] cool, but strange [17:12] oh, I just found it [17:13] * apachelogger purges the french languagepack again :P [17:13] I didn't see it before because I was listening to a lastfm flux, and you can't edit them [17:14] ic [17:14] well, it's not that bad [17:15] at least in amarok, it's only one right-click item which has this bug === kitterma is now known as ScottK2 [17:17] and I remember having this bug(in Amarok too) some times ago [17:17] I'm not sure if it has been reintroduced recently or if it was always there [17:17] smarter: in dolphin it's the statusbar [17:17] which is visible all the time [17:17] Riddell: Are you aware of http://www.kde.org/info/security/advisory-20080426-2.txt [17:17] apachelogger: no problem with the status bar [17:17] and that amarok right click menu is the most used one I think [17:17] dolphin3 ? [17:17] d3lphin actually [17:17] smarter: only happens on delete or something [17:18] ...only KDE 3 apps are imported into rosetta ;-) [17:18] I created and deleted a file and no problem [17:21] but you should test with alpha 2 or 3, I'm sure this bug has happened before and maybe it has been corrected and reintroduced recently [17:22] happens in de [17:23] interessting [17:23] it doesn't happen in fr [17:23] with what app? [17:23] d3lphin [17:24] yes, I saw the bug for Adept some times ago too [17:24] but I don't remember having it with KTorrent [17:25] apachelogger, I can confirm it in da [17:26] I was actually discussing it w/ other translators in another channel earlier - we thought it was our fault :) [17:27] ligemeget: did you only notice in amarok or d3lphin as well? [17:30] apachelogger, where in d3lphin? [17:30] ligemeget: dolphin, the file manager [17:31] I've only got Dolphin 0.9.2 [17:31] kde 3 version is called d3lphin [17:31] yes [17:31] that one :P [17:31] ah, ok [17:31] ligemeget: if you just open it [17:31] in the statusbar [17:31] smarter: fr for d3lphin is correct indeed [17:31] I am wondering why though [17:32] apachelogger, in the bottom status bar it just says "19 items (11 Folders, 8 Files)" - it's not even translated! [17:32] ligemeget: translated here, blame the translators ;) [17:32] ah [17:32] oh [17:32] Current German[0]: Copy text [17:32] Ein Element# [17:32] Current German[1]: [17:32] (no translation yet) [17:33] English singular: Copy text [17:33] 1 Item [17:33] this would mean [17:33] smarter: I think that issue is even far more complex than I thought [17:34] it appears for amarok in every language apparently [17:34] shall I add language-pack-kde-da to the bug? [17:34] because amarok is having the same string as non-plural and as singular form for a plural combination [17:34] ligemeget: I already did, you can just add a comment about it [17:35] and [17:35] if there is no plural translation for a string which should be plural form [17:35] rosetta only exports the non-plural translation [17:35] which breaks the syntax [17:37] apachelogger: maybe we should ask the devs in #launchpad [17:37] but why does it only affects kde3 apps? [17:37] smarter: because we don't import KDE 4 apps into rosetta right now [17:38] I think at least ;-) [17:38] yes, but the gnome/xfce folks don't seem to have any problem [17:38] KDE has a special way of handling the plural stuff AFAIK [17:39] earlier rosetta didn't even recognize it as plural forms which lead to most awesome broken translations as well [17:39] ugh [17:39] go in #launchpad and kill someone ;) [17:40] none around right now [17:40] first I will aggregate more information [17:40] and this stuff needs to be topic for UDS [17:40] Anyone here who can open http://www.rommedahlen.dk/musik/Wongraven.mp3 ? [17:41] the whole rosetta import is causing mostly issues [17:41] may it be because rosetta fcks something up [17:41] or because the language teams change translations [17:41] I really see no reason for the latter [17:41] KDE is having pretty strong QA for l10n [17:43] smarter: intressting fact, in upstream d3lphin msgid "1 Item" and msgid "%1 Items" are 2 seperate strings [17:43] and not a plural combination [17:43] we shouldn't use LP for l10n in the first place imho... [17:44] ---> we <--- indeed shouldn't [17:44] it makes sense for upstream projects [17:45] like when d3lphin chooses to use rosetta for translation it's ok [17:45] but there is absolutely no reason why we, as distributor, should modify translations unless they are completely wrong [17:46] The Danish Amarok translation blows IMHO, but I'm taking that complaint elsewhere :) [17:46] da 0 0 0 100 % [17:46] but complete :D [17:46] http://aplg.kollide.net/amarok/l10n/amarok-1.4.9.1.html [17:46] IMHO it is a waste of workforce (unless you hope they will get from translation to other parts of *ubuntu) [17:47] Nightrose: at it's best it is limiting workforce [17:47] when someone translates a new application to german, while upstream doesn't even have one [17:47] it makes some sort of sense for us [17:47] what is a "fuzzy" string? [17:47] apachelogger: yea sure [17:47] but who will push it upstream? [17:47] none does [17:47] I added info to the team report for us - anything you can think of that you feel needs to be added, speak up now or forever hold your peace [17:47] * smarter only knows fuzzy pop [17:47] so it is highly unsocial [17:48] smarter: fuzzy strings are kind of translations which need a review [17:48] ok, thanks [17:48] for example when I change an exisitng string in Amarok, existing translations which will be marked fuzzy so the translators review it whether they need to change the translation as well [17:49] nixternal: KDE 4 is tha awesomest [17:50] Riddell: for Intrepid I say we maintain a team report page where we can update it as we hack on stuff, making it easier to transfer to the community page [17:50] I will setup a wiki page just for it - time we start collaborating a little more outside of IRC :) [17:51] * ScottK2 barely manages status reports for paid work when they are contractually required. The odds of me doing on a volunteer basis aren't very high. [17:52] ScottK2: you are the one I really wanted status stuff from actually in regards to guidance because you busted your ass on it [17:52] all i put on the report was 'Guidance fixes' :) couldn't remember them all [17:53] nixternal: aptitude changelog kde-guidance [17:53] smarter: your name fits you well, cuz that didn't even pop into my head as of yet :) [17:54] nixternal: I did a lot on that, but awen did quite a bit and smarter's contribution was quite important too. [17:55] nixternal: thanks ;) [17:56] nixternal: For displayconfig, the short version is took it from non-functional and crashing with modern Xorg and display adapters to generally functional for single screen configurations. [17:56] awen got brightness control to be generally working and reliable. [17:56] All of the guidance modules seem to be pretty stable. [17:56] That wasn't always the case. [17:57] Also got apport fixed so it wouldn't crash when trying to report guidance crashes so we actually were getting bugs when bud stuff happend. [17:58] ok, added all of that [17:59] I'd leave out the bit about accidentally changing the api and causing about half a dozen other packages to start breaking the week before the RC. [17:59] :P [17:59] nixternal: and I got it not to stop working when HAL is restarted(happens when it's upgraded) [18:00] I added all of the changelog stuff for april, except for the part where pitti reversed one of our patches :) [18:00] keep the "oops, our bad" stuff out of there :) [18:00] politican rocks! [18:00] smarter: Good point about the hal stuff. [18:01] Wenn will the first intrepid repo be available? [18:03] Generally it's 2 -3 weeks after release. === neversfelde_ is now known as neversfelde [18:05] In other news: Kopete-Windows Live Messenger cannot send/receive files [18:05] anyone want to consider bug 222141 a bug? [18:05] Launchpad bug 222141 in kdepim "Color of Items changed after upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/222141 [18:08] ScottK2: didn't they open the tool chain right about UDS time last release? [18:08] actually, I think they had the toolchain in place before UDS [18:08] Yes, but UDS was closer to release. [18:08] txwikinger: also keep an eye on lists.ubuntu.com, when you see the intrepid-changes list, the toolchain has begun :) [18:08] UDS was ~2 weeks after release, not a nearly a month. [18:09] nixternal: will do [18:09] ScottK2: that is true [18:09] ScottK2: you going to this UDS? [18:10] Is it already decided where the UDS in fall will be? [18:10] yup [18:10] nixternal: Yes. [18:10] damn you :) [18:11] jono and jcastro were telling me to pay my parking tickets so I can get my passport :) [18:11] where? [18:11] tell Canonical to pay them :p [18:11] ligemeget: where what? [18:11] this UDS is in a month? [18:11] yuriy: ya [18:11] in Prague, mhb's backyard [18:11] Just curious about the UDS :) [18:12] ah [18:12] nixternal: where? [18:13] the next UDS? no clue, that won't be announced for about another 4 months [18:13] Ah [18:13] well.. I don't know where I will be at that time either :D [18:13] we sent Claire a proposal for the University of Illinois @ Chicago, but they said "nah, thanks anyways" :) [18:14] typically they do the spring/1st quarter UDS in Europe and the fall/4th quarter UDS in the US...hopefully it stays that way :) [18:17] * nixternal goes to O'Hare [18:17] cya [19:50] have to say a bug :) [19:50] in kubuntu you create a new user but it can't log into a new kde session [19:50] in a gnome desktop you can create such a new user [19:51] i mean 8.04 [19:59] hello [19:59] I am having problems with nfs-client. Anyone know what's wrong ? [19:59] andrew_: devel != support [20:00] nfs reports "internal error" [20:01] coreymon77: i'm here [20:03] karaluh: ya, im not a developer, i jsut hang around here [20:03] :P [20:03] ok, so i'll ask here [20:04] A server [20:04] after upgrade i've got unbootable 2.6.24 kernel [20:04] andrew_: development does not mean support, youd be better off asking in the regular #kubuntu channel [20:05] it gives kernel panic VFS unable to mount root [20:06] old gutsy kernel drops to busybox without any disk devices [20:07] i reverted 2.6.22 initramfs to the one gutsy generated and it went ok [20:08] then i did update-initramfs the 2.6.22 which also worked [20:08] but the 2.6.24 doesn't work [20:09] i've tried both generic and 386 [21:23] hah, adept dist-upgrader is smart. it tells me i'm upgrading over ssh and starts an extra ssh daemon just in case. impressive :) [21:48] fdoving: and what happens if it needs to upgrade sshd in the process? [21:49] sshd will be upgraded. but it won't be restarted without first asking. [21:49] atleast that is true in debian, and i hope this feature also is available in the graphical client. [21:50] ah nice [21:50] s/client/dist-upgrader/ === _krawek_ is now known as krawek [22:16] apachelogger: you here? [22:17] Nightrose: am I here? [22:17] apachelogger: your blog post was quite confusing, to say the least :-) [22:17] you are apachelogger [22:17] mhb: I am [22:17] mhb: but good [22:17] ;-) [22:17] mhb: as long as tristan gets it :P [22:17] hehe [22:18] well the first thing I thought when I read it was: 2 days before Ubuntu releases? that means we won't be able to get the latest amarok in [22:18] or is that just an ironic joke I didn't get? [22:20] apachelogger: please explain :-) [22:21] Is there something real in what you say?(e.g. two releases by year) [22:22] I also wonder [22:23] mhb: http://useopensource.blogspot.com/2008/04/synching-open-source-release-schedule.html [22:23] in case you have not seen it [22:24] smarter: we usually have 4-6 releases per year [22:24] so, I can safely ignore that blog post? ;) [22:24] and usually 2 of them are just before kubuntu goes in freeze and at least 1 other is by request from another distribution [22:24] smarter: yes [22:24] well there's no amarok2 for how long? :-) [22:25] if you just ported amarok1 to KDE4 and then started refactoring the code and adding features one by one... [22:25] but oh well, it seems you know everything so well that you can afford to write sarcastic replies, unlike us mortals [22:25] mhb: would it still not have been finished within 6 months [22:25] also [22:26] adding features one by one is really really hard when you have to relay on the amarok1 base [22:26] because it is crap [22:26] you wrote it .o) [22:26] mhb: started in 2002 [22:26] don't forget the "second system effect" [22:26] mhb: ? [22:27] that's when you write something good, but you see all those flaws, so you start anew on a "second system" by trying to evade all your previous mistakes [22:27] the result tends to be much, much worse [22:28] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_system_effect [22:28] efers to the tendency to design the successor to a relatively small, elegant, and successful system as an elephantine, feature-laden monstrosity. [22:29] and I must admit amarok1 was relatively small, elegant... and definitely successful [22:29] and all those plasmoids and SVGs... [22:29] well, I haven't made this rule up :-) [22:29] that saied [22:29] you are not target user group [22:30] * Nightrose has the feeling mhb has "new=bad" somewhere tatooed on his back ;-) [22:30] I think we should everyone to a marketing workshop one day [22:30] hehe good idea [22:30] Nightrose: did I write that article? :-) I tend to be skeptical, yes [22:30] apachelogger: let's do one at the next uds [22:30] apachelogger: of course, I'm not [22:30] Nightrose: yes [22:30] apachelogger: the problem with feature-laden monstrosities is, nobody is [22:30] SVGs and plasmoids don't seem badly designed, maybe a bit slow [22:31] smarter: should be improving with qt 4.4 [22:31]