[00:21] <smallfoot-> there is a bug that make pink shadows, you know it?
[00:21] <smallfoot-> its for ppl with nvidia geforce card
[00:21] <smallfoot-> you can fix it with this: "sudo ln -sf /usr/lib/nvidia/libwfb.so.xserver-xorg-core /usr/lib/xorg/modules/libwfb.so"
[00:21] <smallfoot-> plz fix upstream
[00:27] <smallfoot-> plz make so thumb mouse button in my mouse work for move back/forward in nautilus and firefox
[00:29] <crimsun> please file bugs using https://launchpad.net
[00:29] <smallfoot-> i did
[00:29] <smallfoot-> but they dont listen to me :(
[00:29] <smallfoot-> i made it in 7.10 and now i use 8.04 but it still not have that :(
[02:41] <superm1> slangasek, you can nuke mythbuntu-control-centre 0.28-0ubuntu1 from hardy proposed.  i meant to upload 0.28-0ubuntu1~hardy1 (which I just did)
[02:41] <superm1> sorry for the mistake
[02:45] <wgrant> superm1: That's not valid -proposed versioning...
[02:46] <superm1> wgrant, its the sort of thing that was agreed on from what i understand until intrepid opens
[02:47] <superm1> because 0.28-0ubuntu1 isn't in intrepid yet, but will be
[02:47] <wgrant> That's backports versioning.
[02:47] <wgrant> 0.28-0ubuntu0.1 would be more right.
[02:48] <superm1> well jdong acked the bug for laga, so i was just doing my part to get it in...
[02:48] <wgrant> Hmmm.
[02:49]  * persia advocates the creation of a guide answering the question "How do I select the next revision string" in the wiki
[02:49] <superm1> there is always this kind of confusion in between dev cycles
[02:50] <superm1> or similar
[02:50] <persia> I don't think the revision code strings should be different between cycles from during cycles.
[03:00] <wgrant> If it's aimed for -proposed, surely -backports versioning is very wrong?
[03:00] <persia> If nothing else, it makes it difficult to backport
[03:01] <wgrant> And confuses people.
[03:02] <persia> True.  Confuses all of developers, archive admins, testers, and end-users.
[03:08] <LaserJock> I was just reading the SRU policy this evening
[03:08] <LaserJock> and it says to use -security versioning
[03:09] <LaserJock> i.e. section 4 of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures#Prepare
[03:09] <persia> We definitely need a definitive guide to specify appropriate versioning for all of backports, updates, and security.
[03:09] <LaserJock> I think backports versioning is also on a wiki page
[03:10] <LaserJock> but yes, it takes a lot of clicks to find anything
[03:10] <LaserJock> and it's not used consistently
[03:10] <persia> It's the last that is the issue.
[03:10] <wgrant> It's used consistently except by GNOME people.
[03:10] <wgrant> Which then confuses everyone else into using braindead versioning, I guess.
[03:10] <persia> wgrant: That's not fair.﻿  mythbuntu-control-centre isn't GNOME.
[03:11] <LaserJock> I was unaware of it until this evening
[03:11] <LaserJock> so I imagine other people are confused ;-)
[03:11] <wgrant> persia: I meant they were 'everyone else'
[03:11] <LaserJock> this would go well with my idea of cheatsheet pages for developers
[03:11] <wgrant> It would.
[03:11] <persia> Ah.  Yes.  Still, be nice to have something on the wiki.  I couldn't find anything yesterday.
[03:20] <jdong> wgrant: sorry for the confusion; I thought -proposed could take on backports-style versioning for new-upstream-version SRUs
[03:20] <jdong> but either way, use whatever versioning scheme everyone is comfortable with
[03:21] <wgrant> I don't see why that versioning should be any more special than normal SRU versioning.
[03:22] <jdong> either way would work for this package.
[03:23] <jdong> IMO 0ubuntu0.1 for when the "old" packaging was used for the new version, "0ubuntu1~hardy1" for when intrepid-like packaging was used for the hardy package
[03:23] <jdong> in this case both scenarios are equivalent
[03:24] <wgrant> But 9:1.2.3+really1.4.5~8.7-3.7etch1lenny2+7.4ubuntu9.8~hardy1 is a valid version as well, but it would never be used, both because it's stupid, and it's not convention.
[03:24] <wgrant> We have version conventions, although we probably can't enforce them if our GNOME maintainers don't follow them :(
[03:25] <wgrant> ALl security, release and backports uploads follow them; why shouldn't updates?
[03:26] <jdong> don't get me wrong, 0ubuntu0.1 is completely fine by me
[03:27] <jdong> and if we do have version conventions, they sure aren't documented all that well
[03:27] <jdong> we definitely have had -updates using ~gutsy/~hardy syntax
[03:27] <wgrant> -security is clearly documented on SecurityUpdateProcedure, -backports must be somewhere, and release everybody knows.
[03:29] <wgrant> I see one instance of a ~gutsyX in gutsy-updates.
[03:30] <wgrant> And that's because it was copied from -backports.
[04:41] <a7x> would someone be willing to review a patch for me?  it's a simple shell script change for compiz.  (LP: #221661)
[10:43] <jc-denton> hi all
[10:43] <jc-denton> is there a way to install gcc-2.95 on hardy
[10:43] <jc-denton> there is no package
[10:43] <jc-denton> and i tried to compile it, but it fails
[10:44] <jc-denton> http://rafb.net/p/cYgq3p98.html
[11:30] <fela> I don't really understand when /var/lib/apt/extended_states is used... I tried to uninstall and install the same program with apt-get, adept, synaptic, aptitude, but in no case it seems to show up in that file...
[11:37] <fela> (I'm still using feisty)
[13:35] <emgent> heya
[14:30] <LotsaCabo> Anyone have a good How-To on getting started with Mono on Ubuntu 8?
[14:31] <Hobbsee> LotsaCabo: #ubuntu for support.  or perhaps ##mono
[14:51] <rc55> Hi - is there a channel for anyone interested in packaging?
[14:51] <ion_> rc55: #ubuntu-motu
[14:52] <rc55> ion_: thank you
[14:52] <daedra> hardy just crashed, is there a way to get a log of it and submit it?
[14:52] <ion_> Can you be more specific about what crashed?
[14:53] <daedra> well I couldn't tell
[14:53] <daedra> I was in openoffice, and then everything froze
[14:54] <daedra> so I tried doing SysReq keys
[14:55] <daedra> managed to reboot it, but I don't know where to get an error log from my system
[14:56] <InforMed> Hi! Why hardy change from ipw driver to iwl?
[14:57] <daedra> just what can you do when the whole system hangs?
[14:57] <InforMed> Is there a way to go back to ipw?
[17:59] <ffm> If a package was removed from the repos, but packages that depend on that package are still there, how do I ask that those packages be removed as well as they are not installable?
[18:00] <ffm> Example: sugar-write-activity depends on python-abiword but is not installable.
[18:12] <geser> ffm: can't sugar-write-activity be fixed to work without python-abiword?
[18:13] <ffm> geser, No.
[18:13] <ffm> geser, sugar-write-activity is built using abiword.
[18:14] <ffm> geser, unless its functionality can be mimicked by another package.
[18:14] <geser> then file a bug request asking for its removal
[18:15] <geser> and give a rationale for why it should be removed and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[18:15] <geser> but this won't be fixed in hardy anymore only intrepid
[18:16] <ffm> geser, can't it be fixed for 8.04.1?
[18:16] <bbrazil> I've an odd suspicion that the -16 hardy kernel is FTBFS
[18:17] <bbrazil> but don't currently have the compute resources to spare to verify it
[18:19] <geser> bbrazil: linux 2.6.24-16.30 build successfully (but I don't if it's still the case)
[18:20] <bbrazil> hmm, I'm on that revision but doing other crazy stuff with it, so probably my fault then
[18:21] <ffm> Is there any chance of us making use of ksplice?
[18:22] <ffm> I'd be great to change from "Never reboot, except for kernel updates" to "Never need to reboot, _ever_"
[18:23] <bbrazil> issue is that the xen patches include Kconfig.orig and Kconfig, and as I'm altering Kconfig  'patch' creates a Kconfig.orig and it goes downhill from there
[18:23] <bbrazil> one bug coming up
[18:23] <CrippledCanary> does anyone here now if it is possible to upload to universe or mulitverse in a PPA or is it just main?
[18:25] <geser> CrippledCanary: iirc PPA doesn't distinguish between main and universe
[18:25] <CrippledCanary> ok... thanks
[18:26] <geser> for multiverse you need to check with the PPA terms
[18:41] <bbrazil> filed as #223175 for anyone who cares, with full repo
[18:48] <salty-horse> hi. any xkb hackers around?
[18:48] <salty-horse> bryce, maybe?
[18:52] <pwnguin> i dont think anyone would ever describe themselves as xkb hackers
[18:53] <salty-horse> pwnguin, I'm looking for someone who has a bit of authority to quell bugs like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/196277 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-config/+bug/205314 from becoming "I can confirm this" floods -- and I have some preventative temporary solutions I'd like to propose/discuss. seems like the bugs themselves are a bad place to do it now
[18:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 196277 in xorg "[hardy] keyboard layout switching shortcut doesn't work after reboot" [High,Confirmed]
[18:58] <bryce> hi salty-horse
[18:58] <bryce> "confirm storms" heh
[18:58] <salty-horse> hi, are you the go-to guy on whatever I mentioned above?
[18:58] <salty-horse> ;)
[18:59] <bryce> yeah
[18:59] <salty-horse> I think (after talking to svu) all of those are caused by https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4927      so:
[18:59] <ubotu> Freedesktop bug 4927 in Input/Keyboard "XKM files do not keep the information regarding the explicit vmodmap mask" [Major,Reopened]
[19:00] <salty-horse> 1) people around the community -- especially those in non-english speaking countries, should be notified that this is a known problem, or they would keep filing new bugs with different descriptions and confirm current bugs
[19:00] <bryce> salty-horse: looking
[19:02] <salty-horse> 2) I think (not really understanding things) that adding "setxkbmap" to /etc/profile will help the problem of "chaning layout doesn't work" -- (it doesn't fix the problem of several key combinations layout-changers not working such as "alt-alt"). I say this because going into the layout options gui, adding a 'v' and removing it works, and a no-parameter call to setxkbmap seems to do the same
[19:03] <bryce> wow, the description in 196277 is rather obtuse...  I like yours better
[19:03] <salty-horse> 3) this is *very important* to non-english users, as pointed out in the bugs, and can be deduced by the sheer number of comments and dupes
[19:03] <bryce> salty-horse: has a patch been identified?
[19:04] <salty-horse> bryce, better talk to svu about it -- he's afk at the moment
[19:06] <salty-horse> bryce, again, I am no expert at this. I'm just giving you a "sitrep" in the midst of a defcon-2 (...it sounds cooler in geopolitical thrillers)
[19:07] <bryce> salty-horse: ok thanks
[19:07] <salty-horse> thanks for looking at it!!! :)
[19:08] <bryce> salty-horse: I'll put it on my watch list, and hopefully a patch will make itself known
[19:08] <salty-horse> this bug has several manifestations
[19:09] <salty-horse> I think the setxkbmap call fixes some of them. I think it's the solution that should be investigated first, before looking into patching xkb code "unofficially"
[19:09] <salty-horse> s/solution/patchy hack/
[19:15] <bryce> salty-horse: hmm, upstream doesn't sound like they want to fix it (at least not quickly)
[19:16] <salty-horse> yup. that's the problem :/
[19:16] <bryce> salty-horse: do you know what change caused the breakage?
[19:17] <salty-horse> nope. please talk to svu for the info -- sorry for being such a dry well of information
[19:17] <Lightkey> a salty horse, in my #ubuntu-devel? O_o
[19:18] <salty-horse> Lightkey, err.. this is kinda awkward... so...
[19:19] <Lightkey> you did not answer my query ;p
[19:19] <salty-horse> bryce, a hint until you talk to svu: http://blogs.gnome.org/sudaltsov/2008/03/23/xkb-suxx-c/
[19:19] <salty-horse> Lightkey, someone pinged you on #scummvm
[19:21] <zyx386> hi
[19:22] <zyx386> what is about this bug in Hardy? 191889
[19:25] <salty-horse> bryce, you might want to merge the two bugs into one.. dupe one of them, maybe, and change the title to something more encompassing than "problem with shortcuts"
[19:25] <bryce> yep, doing that
[19:26] <salty-horse> thanks a bunch
[19:27] <bryce> salty-horse: would you mind please looking through launchpad for other dupes and duping them to 196277?
[19:28] <salty-horse> sure. I'll do that right after I finish dinner (15 minutes?) :)
[19:29] <bryce> yeah I need to get breakfast myself... bbiab
[19:30] <salty-horse> breakfast?! this time of night?! :)
[19:57] <ubuntu__> hello
[19:58] <ubuntu__> how is everybody?
[19:59] <ubuntu__> im looking to understand how and why the ubuntu developers choose some packages and features to be included
[20:00] <ubuntu__> does anybody can point me at some interesting blog, or a discussion about this
[20:00] <ubuntu__> im kind of more interested in the human factor, the psycology of that
[20:01] <ffm> ubuntu__, Uh, packages are included becasue they have maintainers.
[20:02] <ubuntu__> and why some features in the blueprints get more attention that others?
[20:03] <kmpa> Hello, I need some help
[20:03] <nand> hi
[20:04] <kmpa> HI
[20:04] <kmpa> can u help me?
[20:04] <nand> just ask your question :)
[20:05] <kmpa> I want to share in the development of ubuntu, and I don't know how
[20:05] <nand> kmpa:  a good place to start: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
[20:05] <nand> there are lots of pointers to different teams
[20:06] <nand> depend of what you want to do/what are your skills
[20:07] <kmpa> ok, I think this is enough, thank you
[20:07] <nand> you're welcome!
[20:11] <nand> Ubuntu's own summer of code (slightly different): would it interest some of you as mentor? mentoree? : https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-own-summer-of-code
[20:11]  * nand is doing a poll :)
[20:16] <ffm> nand, How about the GHOPC?
[20:17] <ffm> nand, Ah, I see...
[20:17] <ffm> nand, Do we get tshirts ;)
[20:18] <nand> ffm: hehe, we could :)
[22:19] <Kopfgeldjaeger> n8
[22:37]  * Nitro is Away, Reason: ( sleep ) | Since: ( Sunday, April 27, 2008. 23:26:20 ) Xlack v2.1
[22:55] <Lightkey> http://timedoctor.org/2008/04/an-unfortunate-guide-to-upgrading-ubuntu/
[23:33] <mdke> is apport turned off now that hardy is stable? I just saw the same bug reported 6 times in quick succession via a failed hardy upgrade, each time on different packages
[23:34] <mdke> bug 223324 if it matters
[23:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 223324 in scrollkeeper "package gnome-user-guide 2.22.0+svn20080407ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: problemi con le dipendenze - lasciato non configurato" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/223324
[23:36] <mdke> oh dear, looking at the user's bug page, it looks a lot worse, there are tens of em