[00:08] <ScottK> Riddell: python-clamav uploaded to feisty/gutsy-backports
[00:09] <ScottK> Riddell: I think that's it.
[00:21] <ScottK> Riddell: Thanks again for all your help today on clamav and company.
[00:39] <gnomerules> why don't you ditch KDE and go with Gnome? you know brown is hotter than blue!
[00:39] <gnomerules> Hobbsee: don't kick me either :p
[00:40] <gnomerules> I have a cookie for you if you can guess who this troll is...
[00:45] <gnomerules> :(
[00:45] <gnomerules> it is nixternal silly
[00:45] <robotgeek> lol
[00:45] <gnomerules> I have to use this mibbit garbage in one classroom on campus
[00:46] <Riddell> there's always a way to tunnel around these things
[00:47] <robotgeek> ssh not worky?
[00:48] <gnomerules> I can't figure out Putty to save my life
[02:28] <yao_ziyuan> is 8.04 the last version that uses kde 3.x?
[02:29] <robotgeek> yao_ziyuan: will probably be so
[02:29] <yao_ziyuan> .
[02:29] <JontheEchidna> A tear shed for code lost. ;.;
[02:30] <Jucato> open source code is (almost) never lost! :)
[02:30] <Jucato> (besides, we'll still have kde3 packages... but probably not in main anymore)
[02:30] <Jucato> that's still TBD in UDS
[02:30] <JontheEchidna> I just wanted to use that quotish thing
[02:31] <Jucato> T_T
[02:31] <Jucato> oh wait, that's not "a tear"...
[02:34] <yao_ziyuan> there is a bug in kubuntu 8.04's default kwin style "Crystal"
[02:36] <yao_ziyuan> In KDE 3.5.8/9, start a Firefox 2, set the main window in normal state (rather than maximized or minimized), let the main window's upper and lower sides dock the upper edge and lower edge of the desktop, but don't let the left and right sides dock. Then, maximize it, restore it, minimize it, restore it, and now you can see its lower side has an undrawn hollow zone.
[02:37] <yao_ziyuan> this is best seen when there is something white behind firefox
[02:37] <seele> is camera mounting broken again?
[02:37] <yao_ziyuan> like a maximized Kate
[02:37] <yao_ziyuan> i've mailed Crystal's author on this bug
[02:49] <yao_ziyuan> personally i think kde4 is oriented for non-computer people
[02:49] <yao_ziyuan> making the OS like a TV
[02:50] <JontheEchidna> As opposed to the desktop being like a folder inside a file manager?
[02:59] <yao_ziyuan> ...
[02:59] <yao_ziyuan> i support kde4's desktop widgets
[03:00] <yao_ziyuan> but the taskbar/menu system is stupid
[03:00] <JontheEchidna> Oh, I wasn't insinuating that you were against it
[03:00] <JontheEchidna> or not trying to, anyway. ")
[03:00] <JontheEchidna> *:)
[03:28] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: I think aseigo is going to be in Canada... though I still doubt he would want to be a guest speaker :P
[03:29] <Jucato> (aseigo lives in Canada... so I guess he's there already?)
[03:30] <nosrednaekim> exactly
[03:38] <Jucato> nixternal: pokey pokey... just wondering if in the next release, we could make an offline version of the release notes available (the one linked to in the "Release Notes" at the bottom of Step 1 of 6 of Ubiquity)
[04:42] <dasKreech> I may be nitpicking but why do we refer to a menu in the Konqueror introduction that doesn't exist?
[04:43] <dasKreech> nixternal: can you shoot me the packaging link again
[04:44] <Jucato> dasKreech: what menu?
[04:45] <dasKreech> Windows
[04:45] <Jucato> well, unless Kubuntu is willing to patch the doc and maintain it on our end... that menu still exists :)
[04:46] <dasKreech> Well if we patch the code the doc should be patched as well eh ?
[04:46] <dasKreech> hi jjesse
[04:46] <Jucato> we don't patch the code actually
[04:46] <Jucato> just the XMLGUI file
[04:46] <dasKreech> Hobbsee: I haven't said hi o you in ages
[04:47] <dasKreech> BUt then the doc needs translation...
[04:47] <dasKreech> though  I guess we would be removing strings
[04:47] <jjesse> hello dasKreech
[04:47] <jjesse> evening ;)
[04:47] <jjesse> morning Jucato
[04:47] <dasKreech> NIce!
[04:47] <jjesse> what doc?
[04:47] <dasKreech> When did Firefox start shipping with Flash
[04:48] <dasKreech> jjesse: When you start up Konqueror it shows a doc that references a menu that doesn't exist
[04:49] <Jucato> which doc specifically? About Konqueror? which "page"?
[04:49] <Jucato> ah this part "Advanced users will appreciate the Konsole which you can embed into Konqueror (Window ->  Show Terminal Emulator)." ?
[04:50] <jjesse> ah that part
[04:50] <jjesse> sorry haven't booted into linux all week
[04:50]  * jjesse ducks
[04:50]  * dasKreech gasps!!
[04:50] <Jucato> and nixternal was using gnome... oh great! just great!
[04:50]  * Jucato starts to use GNOME again
[04:50] <dasKreech> It's nixternal he's gotten to you!
[04:50] <jjesse> grin
[04:50]  * dasKreech uses X and twm
[04:51] <jjesse> like i mentioned in my post to planet.ubuntuy.com when i'm teaching and using a projector i have problems
[04:51] <dasKreech> He made a Gnome package. A Gnome Package!
[04:51] <jjesse> i think he should be fired then :)
[04:51] <dasKreech> Jucato: It's under Tips btw
[04:52] <dasKreech> On the front page when you start it
[04:52] <Jucato> yeah.. I saw it (didn't you see ^^^)
[04:53] <dasKreech> Jucato: Where is that?
[04:53] <Jucato> [11:49] <Jucato> ah this part "Advanced users will appreciate the Konsole which you can embed into Konqueror (Window ->  Show Terminal Emulator)." ?
[04:53] <dasKreech> Jucato: I know where do you see that?
[04:53] <Jucato> same place as you did
[04:53] <dasKreech> that's not what I see
[04:54] <Jucato> About Konqueror -> Tips
[04:54] <dasKreech> splitting a window into two parts (e.g. Window ->  Split View Left/Right)
[04:54] <dasKreech> not in about Konqueror
[04:54] <Jucato> er  Imeant
[04:54] <dasKreech> on the actual page you see when you start Konqueror
[04:54] <Jucato> Konqueror Intro
[04:54] <dasKreech> ..
[04:54] <dasKreech> I don't see that anywhere :(
[04:55] <Jucato> ...
[04:55] <Jucato> 2nd to the last tip iirc
[04:56] <dasKreech> Ah duh
[04:56] <dasKreech> I read that at least 4 times and never saw it
[04:57] <dasKreech> Must be tired
[04:57] <Jucato> obviously :)
[04:57] <dasKreech> Ok I pulled the 4.0.71 tarballs
[04:57] <dasKreech> How are they nomrally packaged?
[04:57] <Jucato> stdin is the best person to ask since he has been doing the KDE 4 PPA's for quite some time now
[04:58] <stdin> not easily ;)
[04:59] <stdin> I'd suggest getting the sources for 4.0.3 and copying the debian dir from them, then tweaking to make it work
[04:59] <Jucato> sorry to wake you up stdin
[05:00] <stdin> Jucato: was already awake, it's just coming to 5am but the birds are screaming already
[05:00] <Jucato> hahaa
[05:00] <Jucato> I woke up at 3am :)
[05:00] <stdin> did I say screaming, I meant singing of course :p
[05:00] <Jucato> actually 2am.. but decided to extend by an hour
[05:01] <nixternal> mmm gnome
[05:01] <stdin> at least I had a nice breakfast, cold Chinese sweat and sour, yummy :)
[05:01] <jjesse> :)
[05:01] <dasKreech> nixternal: Stop playing footsie!
[05:02] <dasKreech> stdin: I'm packaging 4.0.71
[05:02] <dasKreech> go to debian and see if they have a set of scripts?
[05:02] <Jucato> nixternal: saw my little ping suggestion up there? how feasible would that be?
[05:03] <stdin> dasKreech: I'm not sure if they have scripts, but they should have some packages which you can steel/copy
[05:04] <Jucato> stdin: sweat and sour? yes. cold? hell no! :(
[05:04] <Jucato> dasKreech: so why not just copy over the debian/ directory from 4.0.3?
[05:04] <dasKreech> stdin: Where can I get the debian dir?
[05:04] <stdin> Jucato: well, I put it in the microwave for a couple mins ;)
[05:04] <Jucato> apt-get source foo :D
[05:05]  * Jucato hugs nixternal... seems to be asleep or lacking life
[05:05] <stdin> dasKreech: they are in experimental
[05:06] <dasKreech> Jucato: He's feeding his short lawn ornaments
[05:06] <stdin> you can add "deb-src http://ftp.<your mirror>.debian.org/debian experimental main" to your sources.list
[05:06] <dasKreech> The dist-upgrade :)
[05:07] <stdin> deb-src contains no .debs, so should be "safe" ;)
[05:07] <dasKreech> Yeah I picked up on that :)
[05:07] <dasKreech> Let me go hunt a mirror
[05:08]  * dasKreech blames canada
[05:09] <stdin> http://packages.debian.org/experimental/i386/kdelibs-bin/download
[05:09] <stdin> there's a list there
[05:09] <nixternal> Jucato: what ping suggestion?
[05:09] <nixternal> nevermind
[05:10] <jjesse> nixternal: shouldn't you be hanging out on #gnome now :P
[05:10] <dasKreech> stdin: those are latest?
[05:10] <dasKreech> seems a bit out
[05:10] <stdin> those are the latest debian seems to have
[05:10] <dasKreech> jjesse: Nope #freenode-cafe is the closest he gets :)
[05:10] <jjesse> lol
[05:10] <nixternal> yes, i am all for offline release notes...however....the release notes for offline use would have to be completed 2 months prior to the official release...which should be OK as long as there isn't major changes
[05:10] <nixternal> jjesse: they fight to much in the gnome hacker channels :)
[05:11] <jjesse> nixternal: good luck on getting changes set 2 months before release
[05:11] <jjesse> for offline release notes
[05:11] <dasKreech> well the logo is a karate kick to the face
[05:11] <nixternal> the freezes were pretty well respected except for KDE 4 stuff
[05:11] <nixternal> in the future that will of course get better
[05:11] <jjesse> isn't that what they said last time :)
[05:11] <dasKreech> yeah Plasma joins up with everyone in 4.2 correct?
[05:12] <nixternal> unless we created a seperate release notes item, got it quickly translated in a couple of weeks to include as part of k-d-s maybe?
[05:12] <dasKreech> and hopefully by then Koffice will be sorted enough that they are in a cycle
[05:12] <jjesse> that's an interesting idea
[05:12] <Jucato> nixternal: there's this channel spstarr setup for KDE and GNOME "moderates" for socializing without bias :)
[05:13] <Jucato> I think #freedesktop-chat or something...
[05:13] <Jucato> aaaanyway
[05:13] <Jucato> off to lunch
[05:13] <dasKreech> #freedesktop-cafe
[05:13] <dasKreech> I just said it :)
[05:14] <Jucato> oh right
[05:14] <Jucato> I tend not to read backlogs :P
[05:36] <dasKreech> Jucato: Ok I'm with you I don't like d3lphin
[05:41] <dasKreech> stdin: I'll assume you have no docs on this?
[05:42] <stdin> dasKreech: on what?
[05:42] <stdin> packaging KDE4? nope
[05:42] <dasKreech> grr
[05:42] <stdin> it would be difficult to make any, as it's a moving target and just needs packaging foo
[05:43] <dasKreech> ah well I need some
[05:43] <dasKreech> I pulled amarok and koffice as well
[05:44] <stdin> start with kdelibs first ;)
[05:44] <stdin> don't want to get ahead of yourself
[05:44] <dasKreech> Ok :)
[05:44] <dasKreech> I'll unpack that tarball
[05:53] <stdin> you'll probably going to need newer versions of some libs, those will be in kdesupport
[05:54] <stdin> ie: package those too ;)
[05:55] <dasKreech> ahmm
[05:56] <dasKreech> I didn't see any tarballs for kdesupport
[05:56] <dasKreech> I'll look again
[05:56] <stdin> the life of a packager, "Dependencies, Dependencies, Dependencies". like balmer but with less sweat
[05:56] <stdin> dasKreech: may only be in svn
[05:56] <dasKreech> Yeah it's like runnign RedHat all over again
[05:57]  * dasKreech curses
[05:57] <dasKreech> svn hates me right now
[05:57] <dasKreech> I'll try and pull it though
[05:57] <stdin> http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/kdesupport/ svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/kdesupport/
[06:04] <nixternal> who wants to send me a messenger bag? I need to replace my laptop backpack cuz it is killing me to carry around all of the time
[06:04] <nixternal> I wanted one of the Ubuntu ones, but a) they aren't in the store anymore, and b) they were way to expensive to purchase from the US
[06:09] <dasKreech> Hooray it moved!
[06:09] <dasKreech> Lets see if it completes :)
[06:22] <dasKreech> Whoot done
[06:27] <dasKreech> ok have the two folders now
[06:29] <dasKreech> stdin: ping :)
[06:30] <stdin> PONG: 21412312
[06:30] <dasKreech> actually deping
[06:30] <dasKreech> I need to finish writing this
[06:30] <stdin> too late, package are sent ;P
[06:30] <dasKreech> I'll ... shoot I can't do this tomorrow I'm in a meeting all day
[06:30] <dasKreech> ok...
[06:30] <dasKreech> how long does packaging normally take?
[06:31] <stdin> depends on the complexity of the package
[06:31] <dasKreech> kdelibs kdesupport
[06:31] <dasKreech> maybe kdebase
[06:31] <stdin> making a package isn't too difficult, making a *good* package can be
[06:31] <dasKreech> Yeah I've heard nixternal bemoan that :-)
[06:31] <Jucato> lies...
[06:32] <stdin> for most of the stuff in kdesupport you can just copy the debian dir from the one in the reops and up the version
[06:32] <dasKreech> Making a good package is easy??
[06:32] <dasKreech> ok
[06:32] <dasKreech> I'll grab that when I reboot
[06:33] <stdin> if you can package kdelibs, you can package anything :)
[06:34]  * dasKreech does Tim allen's laugh
[06:34] <stdin> although if you want to do it right, you'll update the copyright info too, but I usually leave that to the end because I HATE IT
[06:34] <Jucato> I can package GNU hello!
[06:35] <stdin> try packaging a python app, it's evil, EVIL I TELL YOU
[06:35] <stdin> EVILLLLLLLLLLLL
[06:35] <stdin> !
[06:36] <dasKreech> Jucato: I think it's still one version behind
[06:36] <Jucato> update it! :)
[06:36] <dasKreech> Yep one version behind
[06:37] <dasKreech>  I've actually had a few of my classes setup the latest version
[06:37] <dasKreech> It's amazing how much they curse then how long they spend playing with it
[06:37] <dasKreech> stdin: Ok another thing does it make sense to have a snapshot PPA ?
[06:38] <stdin> if you want people to be able to install it, yeah ;)
[06:38] <dasKreech> no sorry
[06:38] <stdin> I wouln't want to put it into the main kde4 repo now
[06:38] <dasKreech> let me make myself clearer
[06:38] <dasKreech> does it make sense to have a tracking PPA and a snapshot PPA ?
[06:39] <dasKreech> so we expect I think 4 snapshots starting with Alpha 1
[06:39] <dasKreech> but we also want to do new packages say every 2 weeks
[06:39] <dasKreech> does it make sense to keep those apart?
[06:40] <stdin> keeping the "official" releases away from the snapshot releases it probably a good idea
[06:41] <stdin> then people can choose and you'll get less complaints
[06:41] <stdin> and you will get complaints ;)
[06:41] <dasKreech> so that's 2 PPAs then?
[06:41] <stdin> seeing as there's no way to add a pocket to a PPA it would have to be 2
[06:41] <dasKreech> What happened to Riddell's Gutsy KDE4 PPA?
[06:42] <stdin> stupid LP :/
[06:42] <dasKreech> is it still being used?
[06:42] <dasKreech> As I understand it there are only 2 servers for all the PPAs?
[06:42] <stdin> you mean the kubuntu-members-kde4 PPA
[06:42] <dasKreech> Don't want to seem like we are using up all the slots
[06:43] <stdin> the PPAs have 6 (virtual) builders, 3 for i386, 3 for amd64 and 3 for lpia
[06:44]  * Jucato wonders who took glxinfo away...
[06:44] <stdin> and if the language pack team can lock up the i386 buildds for 12 hours at a time, I don't see why we can't
[06:45] <stdin> mesa-utils: /usr/bin/glxinfo
[06:46] <Jucato> hm...
[06:46]  * Jucato looks in the dvd...
[06:47]  * dasKreech smacks forehead
[06:47] <dasKreech> Right these aree build servers
[06:47] <dasKreech> I would be doing uploads
[06:48] <stdin> you upload, the builds go into a queue, when there is a free slot your package builds
[06:49]  * Jucato wonders why 1. it's no longer installed by default and 2. not in the dvd :(
[06:49] <stdin> à la https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds
[06:49] <Jucato> ohwell, the mysteries of life :)
[06:49] <Jucato> 42
[06:49] <stdin> 21*2
[06:50]  * stdin knew it
[06:50] <Jucato> 14*3
[06:50] <stdin> the language pack builders are at it AGAIN
[06:50] <dasKreech> what''s hppa ?
[06:51] <stdin> it's a CPU arch, on certain servers
[06:51] <stdin> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPPA
[06:57] <dasKreech> Has an extraordinary number of items in queue
[06:58] <dasKreech> Which is going up
[06:58] <stdin> dasKreech: that's the language package builders, ~160 of those are theirs
[06:59] <dasKreech> well I have a bunch of language stuff for KDE4 as well :)
[06:59] <stdin> of you mean hppa?
[06:59] <stdin> then, yeah, it always has a large queue
[06:59] <stdin> dasKreech: unless you have ~250 package, it's nothing compared to them ;)
[07:00] <stdin> that's source packages too, not binary
[07:00] <dasKreech> More like 49 :)
[07:01] <stdin> sounds about right
[07:01] <stdin> those are in the kde4 ppa too
[07:01] <stdin> takes ages to upload those :p
[07:05] <dasKreech> I can imagine
[10:29] <Riddell> wow, guidance has a lot of patches
[10:30] <Sime> I'm guessing that a lot of them could be pushed upstream.
[10:32] <Sime> there's some interesting stuff in there...
[10:32] <Riddell> Sime: that's what I'm doing right now
[10:36] <Sime> Riddell: was going to ask you to expand "LP #1234" etc into a full URL.
[10:36] <Sime> in the patches.
[10:36] <Sime> well, the commits
[10:37] <Riddell> ok
[10:40] <Sime> I gotta say, the part of the OS 'stack' that guidance operates in is a quagmire.
[10:40] <Riddell> Sime: all done
[10:40]  * Sime looking at patches.
[10:40] <Riddell> quagmire, good word, I should use that more :)
[10:41] <Sime> It sounds better than "crap".
[10:41] <Sime> I'm wondering if guidance would attract as many patches if it wasn't so easy to hack and tweak.
[10:41] <Riddell> if it was in c++ I doubt anyone would touch it
[10:42] <Sime> if it was C++ it would segfault and say nothing.
[10:42]  * Hobbsee grins
[10:42] <Sime> the step from hacking shell scripts to python is real small.
[10:42] <Sime> a *lot* of people hack shell scripts.
[10:43]  * Riddell would rather python any day over shell
[10:44] <Riddell> I wonder if anyone has fixed the randr module for KDE 4.1
[10:44] <Sime> I mean, it easier to push people (non-programmers) to hash python than C++.
[10:44]  * Sime reads the guidance changelog.
[10:45] <Sime> every man and his dog has had a go at packaging guidance. :-)
[10:45] <Sime> Riddell: will you be at LinuxTag?
[10:45] <Riddell> no
[10:48] <Sime> someone said there would be  a Kubuntu booth.
[10:49] <Riddell> I believe so, the likes of _Czessi, apachelogger, Nightrose will probably be there
[10:49] <Riddell> not much activity since 4.0 http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/kcontrol/randr/
[10:50] <Sime> I'm not too far from being able to start on guidance for KDE 4.
[10:50] <Sime> guidance needs a good rethink and reevaulation.
[10:50] <Sime> the landscape has changed a bit.
[10:51] <Sime> What kind of admin tools for KDE4 are you missing in kubuntu these days?
[10:51] <Riddell> printing (which is being worked on)
[10:51] <Riddell> user config
[10:51] <Sime> kuser any good?
[10:52] <Riddell> not looked, don't think it's changed since KDE 1
[10:52] <Sime> need PolicyKit too in KDE.
[10:52] <Riddell> oh yes
[10:52] <Sime> Dirk was working on it.
[10:52] <Riddell> he was?
[10:52] <Sime> but I don't know what the status is.
[10:52] <Sime> he blogged about it
[10:52] <Riddell> there was a SoC project for it but nobody mentored so it didn't get in
[10:53] <Sime> he was working on the password popup thingy.
[10:53] <Sime> AFAIK, that is the only real KDE specific bit needed.
[10:53] <Riddell> oh aye http://wire.dattitu.de/archives/2008/04/13/PolicyKit-fun.html
[10:54] <Riddell> for display setup that randr module would seem to be the way to go except it has bugs
[10:55] <Sime> yeah, depending entirely on randr would be great. If it actaull work for everyone.
[10:55] <Sime> actually
[10:56] <Riddell> I havn't looked at the tool redhat/ubuntu are using for it
[10:58] <Sime> a mountconfig tool that supported FUSE would be interesting too
[10:59] <Riddell> power manager ought to use solid and plasma and stuff, but nobody is working on it
[10:59]  * Riddell tempted to just port power manager today
[10:59] <Riddell> some chap did start here with what he hopes is a port of klaptopdaemon, http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=799488
[11:00] <Riddell> but ug, klaptopdaemon, kill kill
[11:03] <Riddell> Sime: did you see the release team thread?  seems pykde apps can't be in kdebase, circular dependency with kdebindings
[11:04] <Sime> oh that thread has flared up again.
[11:06] <\sh> Sime, yes...there is a kubuntu booth at linuxtag
[11:06] <\sh> Sime, czessi is organizing it again
[11:06] <Sime> hey, hi!
[11:07] <Sime> I'll be there to say hello.
[11:07] <\sh> Sime, just tell czessi what beer you prefer ;)
[11:07] <\sh> Sime, cool.../me is there, too :)
[11:07] <Sime> I just looked at the list of patches on kde-guidance. It looks like I'm the one that should be asking for beer orders. ;-)
[11:08] <\sh> hehe
[11:08] <\sh> Sime, just make it to the social event of LT...so we can go out and have a lot of good food and drinks at night :)
[11:09] <Sime> cool, I'll be going down on thurday, and leaving on sunday morning.
[11:10] <\sh> Sime, I think the social event is on thursday or friday...
[11:10] <\sh> yeah thursday
[11:10] <\sh> http://www.linuxtag.org/2008/de/besucher/linuxnacht.html
[11:10] <\sh> hmm...s/de/en/ ;)
[11:11] <Sime> ok
[11:13] <\sh> damn../me really needs to fix his build environment again to fix really serious stuff
[11:14] <\sh> and someone needs to write a cool bacula configuration UI util
[11:21] <Sime> I had started writing backup program, but K3B isn't ported yet. So that's on hold.
[11:26] <Riddell> there's an ubuntu firewall app now we might want to port too
[11:27] <awen_> Riddell: there is a frontend for ufw for gnome?
[11:29] <Riddell> possibly not, maybe I just made that up
[11:29] <Riddell> no, seems not
[11:30]  * jussio1 hugs Riddell... just made that up :P
[11:32] <awen_> could be cool to have one though (of course for kde)
[11:33]  * Sime is now porting his KDE4 firewall app.
[11:34] <Riddell> ooh
[11:46] <\sh> grmpf...bacula tool: bat needs fixing too
[11:47] <\sh> there is no need for a byte limitation for volume files....
[11:48] <\sh> 100G files are just normal...and in bytes:  107374182400 , but "bat" tells me, that's not possible because of wrong max settings in the UI
[12:14] <Riddell> Sime: what am I doing wrong with this? http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/minimal-dialogue.py
[12:14] <Riddell> it doesn't take None as a parent
[12:14] <Riddell> and it says the c++ object has been deleted on setCaption
[12:23] <Sime> dunno. It looks very similar to working code I have here.
[12:23] <Sime> the only difference is that I use  global kapp and a main() function.
[12:26] <Riddell> Sime: got it
[12:26] <Riddell> I was being silly and not passing self to the KDialog constructor
[12:26] <Riddell> KDialog.__init__(self, parent)   fixes it
[12:36] <Riddell> hum, setButtons( KDialog.Ok | KDialog.Cancel | KDialog.Apply )  doesn't work
[12:38] <Sime> self.setButtons(KDialog.ButtonCode(KDialog.Ok | KDialog.Cancel | KDialog.Apply | KDialog.User1))
[12:49] <Riddell> thanks Sime
[13:52] <guaqua> does the firewall app control iptables directly, or does it do it via firehol or something similar?
[13:59] <ScottK> guaqua: You mean ufw?
[13:59] <ScottK> If so, directly IIRC.
[14:05] <guaqua> ufw as in ubuntu firewall?
[14:13] <ScottK> Yes
[14:13] <ScottK> Actuall I think it's Uncomplicated Firewall, but yes.
[14:22] <Tonio_> anyone there knows if it is possible to invoke language-selector the pure cli way (no X session)
[14:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: would that need a shell frontend to be coded ?
[14:22] <freeflying> Tonio_: u should can, but only with python :)
[14:23] <Tonio_> freeflying: so that means coding ;)
[14:23] <freeflying> Tonio_: probably
[14:23] <freeflying> :)
[14:23] <Riddell> Tonio_:yes, if there isn't already one
[14:23] <Tonio_> hehe
[14:23] <Tonio_> Riddell: well I suspect that's not real hard job
[14:51] <jpatrick> Riddell: no, sorry, I have no internet at home and rarely get the chance to come one :(
[15:04] <Nightrose> Sime: yea there will be a kubuntu booth at linuxtag and apachelogger, \sh, Czessi and I will be there as will a few others
[15:04] <Nightrose> you too?
[15:11] <nosrednaekim> crimsun: ping
[15:43] <\sh> Nightrose, sime is coming :)
[15:43] <\sh> Nightrose, at least to say hello :)
[15:43] <Nightrose> :) nice
[15:54] <kiefer08> Hey im lookin to get involved in a project, anything really (though python based prefered) where should i look? :p
[15:54] <Riddell> hi kiefer08!
[15:55] <nosrednaekim> kiefer08: well, Hardy was just released, so all the devs are going to meet at the end of May to decide what new projects to do.
[15:55] <\sh> dumdumdumdidumdumubuntudumdumdumdidumubuntudumdumdumdidum (where U sounds like the U from Ubuntu ;))
[15:55] <nosrednaekim> kiefer08: however, the guidance configuration modules will certainly need to be ported.
[15:55] <nosrednaekim> oh, let Riddell take care of you :)
[15:55] <Riddell> dist upgrade tool too
[15:56] <Riddell> we should maybe port some apps from pyqt4 to pykde4
[15:56] <Riddell> gdebi needs ported to qt 4
[15:56] <kiefer08> Im more than willing to get involved, i have plenty of free time ahead of me :p
[15:57] <\sh> kiefer08, you need a new job? ;)
[15:58] <kiefer08> Haha yeah something like that :p
[15:58] <etretyak> Riddell: Don't give all tasks to kiefer08. Give me some tasks too :)
[15:58] <kiefer08> xD
[15:58] <nosrednaekim> etretyak: plenty to go around :)
[15:59] <kiefer08> I only have one request, and thats that my skills are best suited toward anything but building UI's
[15:59]  * \sh wants a XMPP IM client for KDE4 which actually works like gajim ;)
[15:59] <kiefer08> ..well thats not really a request :\
[15:59] <nosrednaekim> \sh: PSI?
[16:00] <\sh> nosrednaekim, nope...that's qt only :)
[16:00] <nosrednaekim> \sh: it looks like KDE4 though :)
[16:00] <nosrednaekim> kiefer08: you mean... no GUI apps?
[16:01] <kiefer08> nosrednaekim: No, no- I mean, I prefer not to build UI's, I prefer to work under the hood.
[16:01] <\sh> nosrednaekim, the fun part with gajim, it's python, so people knows more about python + pygtk + pygnome  then hacking in C...the same goes for PSI...it's hard for people to read the C++ code..which is sometimes really difficult to understand, especially the XML parsing part ;)
[16:01] <kiefer08> As in, I prefer not to be the one handed the task of building a pretty GUI :p
[16:02] <nosrednaekim> ah... well, the GUI part is quite simple and seele will give you a nice template for what it should look like
[16:03] <kiefer08> Haha, well as long as I dont spend all my time pushing around components in a designer, I'll be happy :p
[16:03] <nosrednaekim> \sh: true....
[16:03] <nosrednaekim> kiefer08: XD
[16:03] <nosrednaekim> kiefer08: so yeah, find something you want to port and go for it :)
[16:04] <stdin> I find creating the GUI in code easier than using designer ironically
[16:04] <\sh> kiefer08, if you follow always the MVC design pattern, there is no need for you to write a good UI...but for someone else to jump in and fix it to let it look clean and neat :)
[16:04] <kiefer08> stdin: Same :p. /sh: Heh sounds easy :p
[16:05] <\sh> kiefer08, implementing MVC is not as easy as it sounds ;)
[16:05] <kiefer08> Hehe
[16:05] <nosrednaekim> later guys.....
[16:05] <kiefer08> nosrednaekim: Later mate
[16:07] <kiefer08> I prefer not to build UI's, hence why I use Urwid library (python) if the script/project Im working on demands some form of UI
[16:18] <kiefer08> Oh w00t, My story is gonna be featured on TheDailyWTF this week :D!
[16:23] <nixternal> hehe
[16:25] <kiefer08> Look out for it, should be titled something like "The 'Super-Hacker''
[16:28] <Riddell> kiefer08: did any of the above sound interesting to you?  porting dist upgrade tool to kde 4 maybe?
[16:29] <kiefer08> Riddell: Yeah sure, sure - Just let me know what needs to be done, and i'll get started
[16:30] <kiefer08> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Super-Hacker.aspx --My story :D
[16:31] <Riddell> kiefer08: branch this with bzr https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/update-manager/main
[16:33] <Riddell> kiefer08: you should be able to run it from DistUpgrade/ with  sudo ./dist-upgrade.py --frontend DistUpgradeViewKDE
[16:33] <kiefer08> kk, Let me take a look
[16:37] <etretyak> Riddell: is there any task for me? please :) i have a holidays now.. so i have a lot of free time.
[16:37] <Riddell> etretyak: system-config-printer needs lots of love
[16:37] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: what licence is amarok under?
[16:38] <etretyak> Riddell: any specs/docs on how it should work?
[16:38] <Riddell> etretyak: copy the gnome one :)
[16:38] <etretyak> Riddell: ok :)
[16:38] <Riddell> etretyak: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/system-config-printer/kde-port
[16:38] <Riddell> is our bzr
[16:39] <Riddell> http://svn.fedorahosted.org/svn/system-config-printer/trunk the gnome one
[16:40] <Riddell> etretyak: for hardy I set it to hide all but the server config page, you can remove the foo.hide() statements now
[16:40] <Riddell> etretyak: then just see what's missing compared to the gnome one, and copy and paste as appropriate
[16:40] <Riddell> etretyak: it may (or may not) help to reorder the methods to the same order as the gnome one
[16:40] <etretyak> Riddell: ok!
[16:51] <kiefer08> Riddell: No launchpad urls seem to be loading for me :\
[16:52] <Riddell> etretyak: try https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/system-config-printer/kde-port ?
[17:17] <Riddell> fdoving: have you seen bug 222041 ?
[17:25] <nosrednaekim> [12:23] < nosrednaekim> QUESTION: you say different and stronger UI ... does this mean KDE4 ?
[17:25] <nosrednaekim> [12:24] <jono> nosrednaekim: nope - Kubuntu does an excellent job with KDE4
[17:25] <nosrednaekim> ~
[17:26] <nosrednaekim> now now nice is THAT of him <_<
[17:26] <nosrednaekim> (from the community chat Q&A)
[17:29] <nosrednaekim> :)
[17:32] <morick> so you never went bowling with goebbels either?
[17:33] <Riddell> ?
[17:33] <morick> so you never went bowling with goebbels either?
[17:43] <vorian> afternoon :)
[17:45] <fdoving> Riddell: not seen. i'll have a ride on my kde3 then, to unmount some usb-sticks.
[17:46] <Riddell> fdoving: it may be because users aren't in the disk group
[17:47] <kiefer08> Riddell: I still cant get any launchpad urls to load... its very strange..
[17:47] <Riddell> kiefer08: can you do   bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/system-config-printer/kde-port  ?
[17:50] <kiefer08> Trying now.
[17:50] <kiefer08> Ah there we go, yeah bzr branch works
[17:51] <kiefer08> I was using terminal before, which kept giving me funny errors and warnings for some reason
[17:51] <kiefer08> Just tried it under konsole :p
[17:52] <Riddell> kiefer08: have you used bzr before?
[17:52] <kiefer08> Not extensivly no
[17:52] <Riddell> kiefer08: bzr commit   to commit locally
[17:53] <Riddell> kiefer08: oh, wait, that was system-config-printer I just had you branch
[17:53] <kiefer08> Lol yeah, uh-oh? :p
[17:53] <Riddell> kiefer08: you want   bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/update-manager/main
[17:54] <kiefer08> lol kk, so what exactly does bzr do?
[17:54] <Riddell> kiefer08: it's like svn, but better
[17:54] <kiefer08> Lol ahk
[17:54] <kiefer08> And 'branch' what is that doing?
[17:55] <Riddell> kiefer08: you don't have commit access to update-manger (because you're not a member of ubuntu-core-dev) but here you are making your own branch and we can merge it in later
[17:55] <Riddell> so edit a file
[17:55] <Riddell> bzr commit  to commit locally
[17:55] <Riddell> and if you have a public ssh key known to launchpad
[17:55] <Riddell> bzr push sftp://<lpuser>@bazaar.launchpad.net/~<lpuser>/update-manager/kde4port   to put it on launchpad
[17:56] <kiefer08> Ahhhk, so once ive made changes to it, run bzr commit on it?
[17:56] <Riddell> yep
[17:56] <kiefer08> Easy ^^
[17:57] <Riddell> and once it's ready for the world to see something, push
[17:57] <Riddell> (or even before it's ready, if you just want a backup on launchpad)
[17:57] <kiefer08> Piece of cake :p, so what changes am i supposed to make?
[17:57] <Riddell> kiefer08: well firstly just run it and see what it does (updates your computer)
[17:57] <Riddell> kiefer08: then, if you're up for being useful, port it to pykde 4
[17:58] <kiefer08> Im mr.usefull :p
[17:58] <Riddell> excellent!
[17:59] <kiefer08> Though right now im also mr.tired, so I should sleep soon, but I'll hop to it tommorro, and keep you posted :)
[18:00] <Riddell> kiefer08: apt-get source python-kde4 will give you some pykde4 templates (in examples/)
[18:01] <Riddell> kiefer08: and opening the .ui file in qt4 designer will convert that magically
[18:01] <fdoving> Riddell: quite possible, i can reproduce it, but i'm not in that group. did it gain any privileges lately? - wasn't plugdev used before?
[18:01] <Riddell> kiefer08: the way .ui files are initiated has changed, you create a QWidget then run uic.loadUi on that widget
[18:02] <Riddell> fdoving: sounds about right (probably pitti would know the details)
[18:02] <fdoving> as member of the disk group one gets loads of privileges on the partitions, which is bad.
[18:02] <kiefer08> Riddell: seems pretty straight foward :P
[18:03] <Riddell> kiefer08: hopefully yes :)
[18:04] <Riddell> kiefer08: so I'd start with converting the .ui file, getting a template app and having it load that .ui file, then copying bits from the kde 3 version and checking for qt3->4 changes that need doing and testing each bit
[18:04] <kiefer08> Well ive got apt-get and bzr working away, Im gonna hit the hay and report back in the morning, Thanks for your help Riddell :)
[18:04] <Riddell> kiefer08: sleep well
[18:05] <kiefer08> Peace, btw- Yeah I think I can do that :p
[18:07] <Riddell> kwwii: all ready for your speech?
[18:17] <fdoving> Riddell: i can patch kio_umountwrapper to not use 'umount and eject' by default. but that might make issues with the devices that need ejection. but that is probably better than having issues with close to everything else.
[18:18] <fdoving> something must have changed somewhere, i haven't touched this since i wrote it. so maybe ejecting is done automatically by something KDE or HAL-stuff i'm not aware of.
[18:21] <Riddell> fdoving: how about just ejecting and not showing an error if it doesn't manage to?
[18:21] <fdoving> Riddell: sure. that's an option, but that would require a kdebase patch.
[18:22] <fdoving> it's a oneliner so that won't be hard to make.
[18:22] <fdoving> i can make a debdiff for you.
[18:23] <Riddell> that would be lovely
[18:23] <fdoving> oh, kio_umountwrapper has been patched in ubuntu.
[18:29] <kwwii> Riddell: lol, no, not really
[18:30] <fdoving> bug 186841
[18:39] <Riddell> blamo, kde 4 version https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jr/guidance/powermanager-kde4
[18:46] <fdoving> Riddell: diff linked to in bug 222041 - need to go prepare kids for sleep etc. bbl.
[18:47] <Riddell> Sime: any idea why this crashes on close?  it doesn't if you only import the kde classes needed http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/crash.py
[18:51] <nixternal> wow, I am not a huge fan of my KDE 4 talk as of right now
[18:52] <Riddell> uh oh
[18:52] <nixternal> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/RichardJohnson/OpenWeek/KDE4
[18:52] <nixternal> tell me what you think
[18:52] <nixternal> of course I will add some flare to wake people up as I go along like I did the other day
[18:56] <Riddell> nixternal: reads great to me
[18:56] <Riddell> very aaron inspired
[18:56] <nixternal> hehe
[18:56] <nixternal> he is my hero
[18:57] <nixternal> except for that hair do!
[19:07] <apachelogger> Hobbsee: gpl2(+) and lgpl for stable - trunk also got a couple of the KDE e. V. gpl2/3(+)
[19:08] <fdoving> nixternal: there is only one issue with your kde4 talk-thing. strigi is not fast and light-weight. it's heavy and cpu/disk/memory-consuming.
[19:08] <fdoving> atleast that is my experience when comparing it to beagle on my 3 machines.
[19:08] <nixternal> I haven't had the issue with my trunk build honestly as of late
[19:09] <nixternal> I know when I initially index it was a bit of a hog, but after that it worked well
[19:09] <fdoving> i have issues with my trunk strigi.
[19:09] <nixternal> my only problem is it will not start up when I login, I have to manually start it and nepomuk
[19:10] <fdoving> it should gain some powermanager-awareness, don't index on battery.
[19:10] <nixternal> ahh, ya, that it definitely needs
[19:10] <fdoving> currently strigidaemon is the most annoying binary on my machines.
[19:10] <nixternal> heh
[19:11] <fdoving> i usually do a 'chmod -x `which strigidaemon`'
[19:12] <nixternal> who's buying lunch? I am hungry!
[19:12] <Nightrose> ~order lunch for nixternal
[19:12]  * insanity slides lunch down the bar to nixternal
[19:12] <Nightrose> there you go ;-)
[19:12] <nixternal> rock on!
[19:24] <apachelogger> Nightrose: that response is awful
[19:24] <Nightrose> true
[19:25] <apachelogger> Nightrose: you should get that fixed :P
[19:26] <Nightrose> oO
[19:26] <Nightrose> well ok - where can I see some code of the other responses?
[19:28] <apachelogger> Nightrose: http://code.google.com/p/rbotbar/source/checkout
[19:28] <Nightrose> thx
[19:28] <apachelogger> ensure that you are logged in @ google
[19:28] <Nightrose> k
[19:28] <apachelogger> just made you project member so you should be able to commit
[19:28] <Nightrose> cool thx :)
[19:30] <Nightrose> will have a look after watching regenesis
[20:02] <Riddell> ken's artwork talk on now in #ubuntu-classroom
[20:13] <Serega> Riddell: Jonathan?
[20:25] <Riddell> hi Serega
[20:25] <Serega> Riddell: ho
[20:25] <Serega> *hi
[20:26] <Serega> Riddell: I propose to just remove /usr/share/services/kaffeine_xine-install-dvdcss.desktop
[20:26] <Riddell> ok
[20:26] <Riddell> any way to give a message to users saying how to install it?
[20:27] <Serega> erm... so do not remove, but change it to display a messagebox
[20:27] <Riddell> yes, I think so
[20:27] <Serega> Riddell: and write /usr/share/kaffeine/install-css.sh which just calls '/usr/lib/kaffeine/install-codecs dvdcss'
[20:28] <Serega> ok
[20:31] <Serega> Riddell: should I set urgency to high?
[20:33] <Riddell> no
[20:34] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: all ready?
[20:47] <nixternal> I am now..just got done eating and watching a show about Pixar
[20:47] <nosrednaekim> :)
[20:48] <jcastro> KDE4 session starring nixternal at the top of the hour!
[20:48] <jcastro> on #ubuntu-classrom that is
[20:49] <jcastro> nixternal: do you have a partner in crime to paste questions?
[20:49]  * jcastro could use a break
[20:49] <nosrednaekim> jcastro: i'll do it
[20:49] <jcastro> rock on
[20:50] <nixternal> ya, you just don't want to see KDE stuff
[20:50] <nosrednaekim> haha
[20:50]  * nixternal puts rootkit in Tasque
[20:51]  * nixternal starts working on KDE 4 talk...forgot all about it until just now ;p
[20:51] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: you want a link to the 4.1 screenshot preview?
[20:51] <nixternal> hrmm, that might be nice
[20:52] <Nightrose> ~order lunch for nixternal
[20:52]  * insanity prepares a super delicious lunch just like mom would do and slides it down the bar to nixternal.
[20:52] <Nightrose> a lot better now ;-)
[21:01] <Riddell> KDE 4 talk in #ubuntu-classroom in a minute!
[21:14] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: a bit later, but here http://polishlinux.org/kde/kde-4-rev-790000-better-stability-and-performance/
[21:45] <Serega> is this great nixternal's classroom log available anywhere?
[21:45] <nosrednaekim> yeah
[21:47] <Serega> nixternal: very inspiring and amazing! Thank you!
[22:00] <apachelogger> ~order cookie for nixternal
[22:01]  * insanity slides cookie down the bar to nixternal
[22:01] <Nightrose> just one apachelogger? ;-)
[22:01] <apachelogger> pfft
[22:01] <Riddell> we still have insanity here?
[22:02] <Nightrose> well done nixternal - rock on :)
[22:02] <nosrednaekim> ~order a 200 proof beverage for nixternal
[22:02]  * insanity slides a 200 proof beverage down the bar to nixternal
[22:02] <Riddell> go nixternal, go kwwii!
[22:02] <Nightrose> want her to go Riddell?
[22:02] <apachelogger> Riddell: wondered the very same earlier today
[22:03] <Riddell> ooh ooh, can I kick it?
[22:03] <apachelogger> ~part
[22:03] <Riddell> aww
[22:03] <Nightrose> hehe
[22:03] <apachelogger> Riddell: kicking sounds rude, doesn't it? :P
[22:03] <apachelogger> one just has to ask nice
[22:04] <apachelogger> Nightrose: you should invite nixternal as guest for the next radio show
[22:04] <Nightrose> ai
[22:04] <apachelogger> and stdin
[22:04] <apachelogger> and let them talk about KDE 4
[22:04] <nixternal> whew, that one was a boring one
[22:04] <fdoving> nice work nixternal, our very own marketing and PR guy :)
[22:04] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: you made it interesting
[22:04] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: I had no other choice, otherwise I would have fallen asleep
[22:04] <apachelogger> lol
[22:04] <nosrednaekim> haha
[22:04] <vorian> hehe
[22:04] <nixternal> that is very similar to my KDE 4 talk I give around here
[22:05]  * nixternal keeps an eye on the podcasting session
[22:05] <nixternal> popey rocks!
[22:06] <nixternal> kwwii: to elaborate a bit on the unified theme with Ubuntu/Kubuntu - I see that quite a bit at local talks around here...people want a human theme for Kubuntu...scary
[22:06] <fdoving> that is insane (to me anyway)
[22:07] <nosrednaekim> yech... I think GTK should ue the oxygen theme ;)
[22:07]  * apachelogger agrees
[22:07] <apachelogger> oxygen ftw!
[22:07] <nixternal> I am using something other than oxygen right now
[22:07] <nixternal> I am using Skulpture
[22:07] <fdoving> oxygen sucks.
[22:07] <nixternal> it is hot!
[22:07] <nosrednaekim> heh... TBH, I'm using qtcurve, and gtk qt3 and qt4 are all perfectly unified
[22:07] <etretyak> nixternal: thanks for you speech! *nix forever! :)
[22:08] <nixternal> I don't think oxygen sucks as a theme, it just doesn't have that "wow" factor that the icons and such have
[22:08] <nixternal> etretyak: hehe :)
[22:08] <fdoving> they move stuff around, center aligns text in vboxes, i don't like when styles do that. it leaves it unusable for development.
[22:09] <fdoving> it's like IE and webpages. "Looks good to me, but it's only Oxygen compatible."
[22:09] <nixternal> Riddell: wstephenson just said that Dirk is working on a migration utility from KDE 3 to KDE 4.... yay \o/
[22:14] <Arby> if I want to get involved with packaging/merging for intrepid is there a to do list for kubuntu/kde packages?
[22:14] <Arby> or is it too early
[22:15] <nixternal> Arby: I would say about, less than a week to early
[22:15] <nixternal> they are building the toolchain now, and once that is complete, we can start the merges and what not
[22:15] <Arby> ok cool
[22:15] <nixternal> truthfully, just go through merges.ubuntu.com and pick the ones you want...except for mine of course :p
[22:16] <Arby> I was looking for something small and simple that isn't going to break the world if I get it wrong
[22:16] <nixternal> I think I will only have a couple right off that bat, smb4k will either need a merge if Debian included it, or I will have to upload a new build
[22:16] <Arby> this being my first foray into packaging :)
[22:16] <nixternal> Arby: there are plenty of small ones...the best ones are the ones with no errors to get started with
[22:17] <stdin> Arby: that's why we have revi, you can upload to there and get mentors to review your package
[22:17] <nixternal> once you do a few that don't have any errors and are straight forward merges, then go for the errors
[22:17] <stdin> *revu
[22:17] <nixternal> also keep an eye on packages that can be sync'd up
[22:17] <nixternal> ooh, speaking of REVU, I need to schedule a REVU days
[22:17] <nixternal> This is just a reminder that the Qt QuickStart Seminar in Chicago is
[22:17] <nixternal> tomorrow, May 1!
[22:17]  * Arby looks at merges.u.c
[22:17] <nixternal> YAY!
[22:19] <stdin> who wants to recommend a good python beginners tutorial? I've decided it's probably time I learn what all the fuss is about
[22:20] <nosrednaekim> stdin: uhh, the official tutorial is quite good
[22:20] <fdoving> stdin: i've heard http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/thinkCSpy.pdf is good.
[22:20] <stdin> nosrednaekim: from python.org? I'm starting on those today
[22:20] <nosrednaekim> yeah
[22:21] <stdin> but the more sources I have the more chances I'll find the one that "speaks" to me
[22:21] <nosrednaekim> though the book "learning python" from O'rielly rocks
[22:22] <fdoving> there is also a book in the apt repositories, 'diveintopython'
[22:22] <nixternal> hahahaha, I just got a job offer to do marketing from a spy in our Open Week talks
[22:22] <kwwii> nixternal: yeah, that is one of those questions I try to answer as politicaly correct as possible
[22:22] <nixternal> dive into python ebook is great, but also the PyQt4 book is great!
[22:23] <nixternal> kwwii: oh, I know what you mean there
[22:24] <stdin> nixternal: I thought I'd learn generic python before PyQt4, I don't want my head to explode ;)
[22:24] <nixternal> stdin: actually, the PyQt4 book does a great job at teaching the basics of Python in the first 3 chapters
[22:24] <nixternal> I learned more Python from those 3 chapters than any other Python doc or book out there
[22:24] <stdin> ooh, ok, I'll grab that too
[22:24] <nixternal> Rapid GUI Programming with Python and Qt
[22:25] <stdin> I'm used to C++, so python is going to be new to me
[22:25] <Sime> nixternal: is that the Mark Summerfield book?
[22:25] <nixternal> Sime: yes
[22:25] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: haha... are you kiddin?
[22:25] <nixternal> that book is awesome...I have a few of Mark's books, he is good
[22:25] <Sime> I should get a copy of that.
[22:26] <nixternal> His C++ GUI Programming With Qt4 is a great book as well
[22:27] <stdin> from what I remember from Riddell's PyQt talk from last Open Week, PyQt should be as easy as C++ Qt (hopefully)
[22:28] <nixternal> actually easier
[22:28] <fdoving> as easy as? - what is the advantage of pyqt if it's not easier than c++qt?
[22:28] <stdin> that you don't have to compile it? ;)
[22:29] <smarter>  that you can have a "core" in pure python for pygtk?
[22:29] <stdin> although some of the errors gcc throws at you can be fun to decode
[22:29] <fdoving> hum, well.
[22:29] <nixternal> I still prefer C++ over Python, but the past few months I have began to really like Python
[22:30] <stdin> everyone seems to be moving to python, half of ubuntu must be python by now :p
[22:30] <fdoving> i prefer most languages over python, i find it messy, but it probably isn't. I just haven't found the time to use it to do anything yet.
[22:31]  * Arby gets confused by merges.u.c
[22:31] <Arby> should I be looking for cases where the report file Generated results reports no problems
[22:31] <Arby> at least to start with
[22:32] <nixternal> fdoving: ya, I was the same exact way, so I made myself start using it for small projects
[22:32] <nixternal> Python just as any other language gets as messy as the programmer makes it
[22:33] <fdoving> nixternal: yep, i'll have to wait till the kids grow a few years older. then i can start to learn new things :)
[22:33] <nixternal> hehe
[22:33] <nixternal> ahh, get the kids involved
[22:34] <nixternal> my daughter taught me how to make pretty drawings with KTurtle
[22:36] <fdoving> too bad my kids are not interessted in what is on the screen. removing the keys from keyboards on the other hand.. that is fun.
[22:37] <fdoving> so if i were making kids toys, i would make a dummy-VHS-video-player and a bunch of cassetes, and keyboards. those "don't touch"-items all kids just NEEDS to play with :)
[22:38] <fdoving> tv etc. bye.
[22:42] <chidge> hi, nixternal I'm reading your ubuntu-classroom kde evangelisation :) can you recommend a good live cd to look at some of this kde4 goodness?
[22:43] <nosrednaekim> chidge: there is a kde 4.1 liveCD from suse... our our own kde4.0.3 hardy CD
[22:55] <chidge> thanks, ill queue those 2 up to download tonight theen :)