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sinzuiTo the tune of _Doe a deer_:14:58
sinzuiDough, the thing that buys my beer14:58
sinzuiRay, the guy that pours my beer14:58
sinzuiMe, the guy that drink my beer14:58
barryFa, the sound i make when i drink too much beer14:59
sinzuiSo, I'll have another beer15:00
sinzuiTea? No thanks I'll have a beer15:00
barrymootbot's pushing up daisies so we're kicking this old school15:01
barrywho's here today?15:01
barrysalgado: ping15:02
barrybigjools: ping15:02
barry== Agenda ==15:03
barry * Roll call15:03
barry * Next meeting15:03
barry * Action items15:03
barry * Queue status15:03
barry * Mentoring update15:03
barry * Review process15:03
barry   * How to manage workload of reviewing (intellectronica, sinzui? gmb?)15:03
barry   * comparing strings with `is` (stevea)15:03
barry   * overly broad `KeyError`s (stevea)15:03
barry   * adding lpreview to sourcecode?15:03
barry   * People should be updating sampledata when they add columns to tables (gmb). All too often I find myself running make newsampledata only to discover a bunch of changes that are nothing to do with me and which merely do things like setting new fields to NULL. This inflates the linecount of a diff and, worse, makes sampledata harder to debug. People should be running make newsampledata on their DB patch branches, or at least on the c15:03
barryode branches that descend from the DB patches.15:03
barry     * Perhaps add a check to the lint report? -- GavinPanella15:03
barry * Next meeting15:03
barrytoday += weeks(1) ?15:03
barryanybody know you'll be missing?15:04
statikwouldn't miss it for anything15:04
barry * Action items15:04
barry * barry drive to decision about multiline sequences15:04
barryi suck, but i will do this today or tomorrow15:05
barry * gmb to add lpreview to sourcecode and hack rf-setup to link it in15:05
gmbHaven't touched this since last week what with roll-out coming up15:05
gmbBut mthaddon was having trouble branching it for sourcecode.15:06
gmbI'll tackle this once rollout is complete.15:06
barrygmb: sounds great, thanks15:06
barry * bigjools to email list about cleaning up after branches land15:06
barrybigjools is mia, but i /think/ this was done, wasn't it?15:06
salgadosorry for being late15:06
barrysalgado: no worries15:06
sinzuibarry: It was done15:07
barrysinzui: ok, thanks15:07
barry * gmb to prod mwh again about the 800-line limit patch15:07
gmbWill do it today.15:07
barrywe'll just continue this one15:07
barry * intellectronica to add js style guide link to TipsForReviewers15:08
intellectronicai'm pretty sure i did this last week, let me check15:08
intellectronicai did15:08
barryintellectronica: thanks!15:09
barry * sinzui to update js style guide page with helpful resources15:09
sinzuiNot Done15:09
barryno worries, we'll just continue this one15:09
barry * Queue status15:09
* barry can't get to the PR wiki15:10
intellectronicamy sincere apologies for not doing any PR reviews (and rejecting a few on irc). i must finish some stuff before the release15:11
barryah there it is15:11
barryintellectronica: it happens15:11
bacleonard's is the only one in the general queue.  i didn't have time to get to it yesterday15:11
bacand he just added it to the GQ15:11
barrymaybe we should just assign leonard's branch to someone?15:12
barryanybody have time to review it?15:12
gmbbarry: I will after today.15:13
barrygmb: great, thanks15:13
barrygmb: can i put it in your queue?15:14
barryanything else on the queue?15:14
barry * Mentoring update15:14
barrybac: wanna do the honors?15:14
bacToday we're graduating Gavin.  Well done and hoorah.15:15
* gmb applauds15:15
* allenap does \o/15:15
intellectronicago allenap!15:15
flacostecongratulations allenap!15:15
allenapThanks bac :)15:15
bacit was my pleasure15:16
barryallenap: congrats!15:16
allenapThanks everyone.15:16
barrynow that we have an open slot and EdwinGrubbs has been nominated for recruitment,  we need a mentor for him though15:17
barrysalgado: do you think you can mentor him?15:17
salgadobarry, I was thinking about that15:18
barrysalgado: you don't have to answer right now.  just let me know15:18
barrysalgado: if you can't that's cool, we'll find another mentor for him15:18
salgadoif I mentor him, what happens with my on-call term?15:18
statikwhile mentoring is important, I think we should also feel comfortable taking a month off from mentoring, to avoid burnout15:18
salgadocan EdwinGrubbs take it over and I only mentor him during that day?15:19
barrysalgado: EdwinGrubbs would be oncall with you and he would do most if not all of the reviews.  you would mentor his reviews, but hopefully not do too many of your own15:19
barrystatik: do you think we should do that team-wide, or just for a particular mentor?15:19
sinzuisalgado: That is essentially what I have done working with schwuk15:19
statikbarry: I just wanted to mention it, we all sometimes need to hear that it is ok to say no :)15:20
salgadookay, I can do it, then15:20
barrystatik: right you are15:20
barryjust like rejecting branches, it is okay to say no!15:20
barrysalgado: awesome, thanks15:20
barryintellectronica: not you though15:21
salgadoEdwinGrubbs, you start tomorrow. ;)15:21
barryanything else on mentoring?15:21
barrymoving on...15:21
barry * Review process15:22
barry   * How to manage workload of reviewing (intellectronica, sinzui? gmb?)15:22
barryi apologize for not remembering who wanted to talk about this15:22
barrythe floor is open (just let me know when you're done)15:22
intellectronicai think it isn't really about work load15:22
intellectronicamore about work scheduling15:22
intellectronicathe work load is not something we can influence, anyway15:22
sinzuiI have concluded that schwuk reads 1.5 faster than I do, so he can easily over whelm me. I'm not taking reviews while he is reviewing.15:23
intellectronicathe problem i identified, is that having a whole day dedicated to reviewing in the middle of the week is often too distracting for me15:23
bigjoolsme - late, sorry :(15:24
intellectronicait means that i have to drop whatever i was doing on the days before that, and can't respond to anything other than reviews15:24
intellectronicai was wondering if anybody has any thoughts about this, or ideas for managing it better15:24
flacostehow others who are on-call middle-of-week feels about that?15:24
barryintellectronica: would it make sense to rotate ocr days every now and then?  i find mondays are nicely segmented, but when it rains, they can be triply depressing :)15:25
intellectronicayes, i can imagine mondays and firdays are a bit better15:25
schwukFriday works well for being on call, but I can see what intellectronica is talking about.15:25
bacmy problem is my on-call day spills over and eats most of the next morning, which sinzui has discussed before.15:25
salgadoI prefer to have one day in which I concentrate on reviews than to do reviews for a couple hours every day15:26
bactuesday has not been a problem15:26
intellectronicasalgado: right, so it's a matter of personal preference. not really something we can generalise15:26
barrymy biggest fear is that we'll burn out on doing reviews.  maybe we need a reviewer's vacation?15:26
sinzuibac: I would stop early if I felt I had too many needs-reply15:27
bacsinzui: yes.  it gets more difficult when you're working with a mentee.  i just need to manage the time better.15:27
intellectronicabarry: that's a nice option, but with the current work load, it risks only increasing the work for other reviewers15:28
sinzuiintellectronica: Europe is now filled with on-call reviewers, so it is possible for one to take a week off15:28
bigjoolsmaybe we can fast-track extra reviewers?15:28
statikdo we have enough reviewers now for people to be on call every two weeks instead of every week?15:28
barryi'll note that if someone is really swamped, we've done one-time skips of ocr or switch days15:28
intellectronicasinzui: well, i'm pretty much doing this today15:29
gmbI did that last week.15:29
bacstatik: i don't think that is feasible yet15:29
sinzuiallenap: You will be sharing a slot I think15:29
allenapsinzui: Fine with me.15:29
* sinzui is looking at https://launchpad.canonical.com/OnCallReviewers15:29
bacallenap: what slot are you taking?15:29
statikbac: you're right, because of timezones15:29
* intellectronica notices that he's got the only slot that doesn't have anyone before or after it15:30
sinzuiintellectronica: right!15:30
intellectronicait could be that this contributes to my workload, and that other shifts are not as problematic15:30
allenapbac: I guess I could do Thursday with intellectronica.15:30
barryintellectronica: maybe allenap can share or overlap with you?15:30
intellectronicaallenap: what do you say? i'd like that15:31
allenapintellectronica: Me too :) Done deal.15:31
bacallenap: or even wednesday with intellectronica15:31
allenapbac: Oh yeah, doh :)15:31
sinzuiintellectronica: rockstar_: and abentley would have to emigrate to fill those AsiaPac slots15:31
barryallenap: great, please update OnCallReviewers15:31
allenapbarry: Done.15:31
salgadomaybe we should keep track of how many reviews are done in each term15:32
barryallenap: you're not keeping your tuesday slot though, right?15:32
allenapbarry: No, I just deleted that. I'm not doing well today.15:32
salgadothat could help balancing the workload15:32
barryallenap: thanks15:33
barrysalgado: that came up in asiapac.  i know i keep track of my review time (using gtimelog) but we're not gathering those statistics any more15:33
salgadoright, that's why I suggested number of reviews, which is way easier to track15:34
salgadomaybe just filling a googledocs spreadsheet would do for now15:34
barrylet's do this: if you have a suggestion for improving the review process, email me or the list.  i'll try to put together a couple of concrete proposals and we can try them out for a cycle or two and see what we like15:35
salgadoI mean, it's better than nothing and we don't have to go through launchpad-reviews counting email messages15:35
barrywe've got two more issues, hopefully quick ones15:36
barry * comparing strings with `is` (stevea)15:36
barry   * overly broad `KeyError`s (stevea)15:36
barrythese were things steve saw in a branch he was rc'ing and he wanted me to just mention them here so you all are aware of them15:37
barryfirst, nobody should ever compare strings with 'is' or 'is not'15:37
barryi think the code example was: if foo is 'bar':15:37
barryalways use == and != to compare strings15:37
barryany questions about that one?15:38
barrysecond one is really about putting too much code in the try clause of a try/except15:39
barrythere was a case where inside the try, it wasn't clear which line of code the KeyError was trying to catch, so it would be possible to mask bugs15:39
barryso watch out for too much stuff inside the try and encourage coders to use an else clause or to put the success code outside the try/except (as appropriate)15:40
barrydoes that make sense/15:40
barryer, sense?15:40
* sinzui mutters Py 2.515:40
flacostehow 2.5 affects this?15:40
sinzuiNo, not specifically. I recall see nested trys because of else and finally15:41
intellectronicaand it will be great to have conditional expressions15:41
barryyes, you can get rid of most of your nested try/finally try/excepts15:42
barryintellectronica: and with statements!15:42
rockstar_sinzui, I wouldn't mind.  I've been instructed by the other half to think real estate in NZ next week.15:42
barryanyway.  that's all i have today.  we've got 3 more minutes, so i'll open the floor15:42
gmbbarry: sampledata15:42
barrygmb: dang, right15:42
barrygmb: take it15:42
gmbIt's on the agenda, but it's pretty self explanatory.15:43
sinzuirockstar_: really? I thought the antipodeans only accepted full reviewers.15:43
gmbIf you see a branch that hangs off a DB patch can you check that the developer has updated sampledata appropriately?15:43
* barry was looking at the wrong tab15:43
gmbMany of these will be fixed in the DB review anyway.15:43
* sinzui notes that they traded mpt for mwhudson15:43
gmbBUt if a new field can be NULL and defaults there to then developers don't always make newsampledata15:43
gmbWhich makes it hard work for the poor schmuck that does.15:44
gmb(And his reviewer, not incidentally).15:44
intellectronicaright, so that needs to be part of the review 'checklist', i guess15:44
gmbbarry: I'll update that.15:44
flacosteit could even be automated15:45
barrygmb: thanks15:45
flacostemake newsampledata and no changes should appear15:45
flacostewith the previous one15:45
gmbflacoste: I'm not sure I understand you.15:45
salgadoyeah, that'd do a nice test15:45
barryflacoste: as part of make lint?15:45
flacosteor another test by review-submit15:45
gmbIt'd be nice to make it part of make lint.15:46
sinzuiflacoste: That's a clever idea15:46
barryflacoste: wanna take a crack at it?15:46
BjornTi don't think we should enforce creating new sample data when submitting the branch for review15:46
* flacoste looks at sinzui - another good reason to replace jamesh lint15:46
BjornTif it's not needed, it will produce a much larger diff, and the branch will be prone for conflicts15:47
gmbWhy do we need to replace jamesh?15:47
gmbOh, wait.15:47
gmbscreen was being silly.15:47
BjornTmuch better to generate the sample data just before submitting the branch to pqm15:47
gmbCarry on.15:47
flacosteBjornT: problem is that we delay the price15:47
flacosteBjornT: that's also good15:47
flacostei thought you were suggesting not updating sampledata at all15:47
flacosteunless absolutely needed15:47
salgadoif that's what we want we can make the test suggested by flacoste part of our test suite15:48
rockstar_sinzui, I don't really get that joke...  :(15:48
barryokay, sorry, we're 3 minutes over now.  let's think about the sampledata test and i'll put it on the list for next week15:49
barrythanks everyone!15:49
statikthanks everybuddy15:49
flacostethanks barry15:49
intellectronicathanks barry15:49
barry(everyone except mootbot)15:49
sinzuirockstar_: the only person who was ANZ not a review was mpt, He moved to UK. mwhudson who became a reviewer moved to NZ15:49
rockstar_Ah, I see.15:50
sinzuirockstar_: The antipodeans seem to prefer, for lack of a better word, 'rockstars'15:50
* rockstar_ goes to learn the reviewer secret handshakes... :)15:50
Hobbseerockstar_: don't forget to sacrifice the goat first.15:50
rockstar_sinzui, perfect!  The only problem now is that I've only been around for a week and a half now.15:50
sinzuiI think ibex is the animal of choice15:50
Hobbseesinzui: oh, i thought we were keeping them for ubuntu sacrifices.15:51
sinzuiHobbsee: We like Ubunut15:52
sinzuiHobbsee: We like Ubuntu15:52
rockstar_sinzui, our move would be solely based upon U.S. politics.  :)15:52
Hobbseesinzui: so you should sacrifice things to make it work properly, no?15:52
Hobbseeapparently we're out of zebras.15:52
rockstar_Shit!  Who do we talk to in order to get more?15:53
sinzuirockstar_: I've been thinking on Montreal for similar reasons15:54
rockstar_sinzui, you're in AsiaPac?15:54
sinzuirockstar_: No. I loved living in Australia as a child. I work on the Foundations team so I should be stay on the East coast of North America, Caribbean, or South American15:56
rockstar_Oh crap, I would totall be down in the Carribean...15:57
rockstar_I lived there for a while.  I'd think about going back, but that'd be a step in the wrong direction...15:58
sinzuirockstar_: Consider Hawaii. Fiji has some bad politics15:58
rockstar_Hawaii is still the U.S.15:58
sinzuiHalf is owned by Nippon15:58
sinzuiyeah? 50% of land and business is owned by Japanese investors I believe15:59
rockstar_So it's not U.S. soil>16:00
* rockstar_ grumbles and the things the U.S. "fails to mention" in public school...16:00
sinzuirockstar_: I learned to study a nation's history in another nation.16:01
rockstar_sinzui, good idea.  Living in Texas 'til I was 11, I only ever learned Texas history.  No U.S. history even.16:02
sinzuirockstar_: France has little to say about Napoleon. The US does not mentioned Native Americans and genocide very often16:02
sinzuirockstar_: Texas is it's own state of mind.16:02
rockstar_Yea, we killed a lot of Mexicans...16:03
sinzuiAnd stole a lot of land16:03
* rockstar_ redacts the "we" and adds "they"16:03
sinzuirockstar_: Australia just officially apologised for taking generations of children from their families. NZ is in rights disputes with the Maori. There is a lot of crime to redact 'we' with 'they'16:06
rockstar_sinzui, well, problems are problems.  It's more about the "looking forward" solution.  At least the Australians apologized...16:08
sinzuirockstar_: I agree.16:09
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