| === stdin changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Open Week | Information and Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | How to ask questions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Rules | Ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, prefaced with "QUESTION:" |See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/JoiningIn to filter out channel noise | Sessions start at 15:00 UTC | ||
| jcastro | cody-somerville: about ready to start? | 15:58 |
|---|---|---|
| cody-somerville | Almost. :) | 15:58 |
| jcastro | perfect | 15:58 |
| === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Open Week | Information and Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | How to ask questions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Rules | Ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, prefaced with "QUESTION:" |See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/JoiningIn to filter out channel noise | Current session: "Xubuntu" - Cody Summerville | ||
| jcastro | Ok, welcome back everyone | 16:01 |
| jcastro | This morning we have Cody Somerville who will be discussing Xubuntu | 16:01 |
| jcastro | cody-somerville: take it away! | 16:01 |
| cody-somerville | Hello everyone | 16:02 |
| cody-somerville | Thank you for coming to attend the Xubuntu Open Week session. | 16:02 |
| cody-somerville | My name is Cody Somerville and I'm the current Xubuntu team leader. | 16:03 |
| cody-somerville | So, what is Xubuntu? I'm sure a lot of us know already but for those of that don't, Xubuntu is an official derivative of Ubuntu. | 16:03 |
| cody-somerville | As an official derivative, Xubuntu uses the same archive as Ubuntu does offering you all the same packages. | 16:04 |
| cody-somerville | The difference between Xubuntu and Ubuntu is the set of packages that are installed by default. | 16:04 |
| cody-somerville | Xubuntu uses the Xfce4 desktop environment which prides its self on being light weight and fast while remaining user friendly. | 16:06 |
| cody-somerville | The motto of Xfce is "... and everything goes faster!". and thats exactly the comment we often receive from users. | 16:07 |
| cody-somerville | When you first load up Xubuntu, you'll notice it looks very much like Ubuntu. | 16:08 |
| cody-somerville | You still have the two panels, one at the top and one at the bottom. An applications menu in the upper left corner. System tray in the upper right corner. etc. | 16:08 |
| cody-somerville | Xubuntu has often been dubbed the "faster Ubuntu" because we've been able to provide a faster desktop experience without compromising usability or sacrificing too many features. | 16:09 |
| cody-somerville | In Xubuntu 8.04, which as you know was released last week, includes the latest release of Xfce4 - Xfce4 4.4.2. | 16:11 |
| cody-somerville | You can find more information about Xfce specifically at the Xfce website located at http://xfce.org | 16:11 |
| cody-somerville | Does anyone have any questions about what Xubuntu *is*, what Xfce4 *is*, or what makes Xubuntu different from Ubuntu? | 16:12 |
| cody-somerville | <toobuntu> QUESTION: A lot of users who want a fast, yet easy to use system may be torn between Xubuntu and Fluxbuntu. Would you comment on the resource use of Xubuntu compared to Fluxbuntu? | 16:12 |
| cody-somerville | Good question. | 16:13 |
| cody-somerville | Xubuntu is not as light as Fluxbuntu. Xubuntu and Fluxbuntu, although both focus on being light-weight, do serve different purposes. Each project has their own intended audience. | 16:15 |
| cody-somerville | Xubuntu, I think, is a happy medium between Fluxbuntu and Ubuntu. | 16:16 |
| cody-somerville | Fluxbuntu is more appropriate for machines that are very low on resources where as Xubuntu is better suited for computers in the last decade - give or take a few years. | 16:17 |
| cody-somerville | Does that answer your question? :) | 16:17 |
| cody-somerville | QUESTION: can you suggest tools to benchmark xfce performance mem footprint etc ? then we'll can compare to some other desktop manager ? | 16:18 |
| cody-somerville | That was from RzR. | 16:18 |
| cody-somerville | RzR, I can't suggest any tools at this time but benchmarking is an initiative that I hope to have in place for Intrepid. Intrepid will, hopefully, be the first release of Xubuntu that actually makes a calculated and scientific like effort to improve performance. | 16:19 |
| cody-somerville | <rubicon_> QUESTION: Xubuntu looks just like a lightweight clone of Ubuntu. Is this intended? I mean, Xfce4 could be very unique but instead, it look just like GNOME. | 16:20 |
| cody-somerville | rubicon_, Yes it is intentionally. We wanted Xubuntu to be as easy to use as possible and we feel that the current setup is accomplishing just that. However, I'm sure there will be discussion (as there always is) for Intrepid of changing it up a bit and maybe someone will present a compelling enough argument and we'll do just that. | 16:21 |
| cody-somerville | <djf_jeff> QUESTION: Does xbuntu receive the same support as ubuntu for patches, updates, etc? | 16:21 |
| cody-somerville | djf_jeff, Commercial support for Xubuntu through Canonical does not currently exist. However, Xubuntu receives the same types of support from the community. | 16:22 |
| cody-somerville | Xubuntu does receive security updates, patches, etc. but it is not guaranteed by Canonical like Ubuntu is. | 16:23 |
| cody-somerville | <jaredbuck> QUESTION: Does the xubuntu interface get updated regularly? KDE just came out with version 4 and it's entirely different from version 3. | 16:23 |
| cody-somerville | jaredbuck, There are currently no radical plans to change the Xfce4 interface. | 16:24 |
| cody-somerville | <Lardarse> QUESTION: Is there anything (apart from lightweightedness) that Xfce offers that KDE or GNOME don't? | 16:25 |
| cody-somerville | Yes! | 16:26 |
| cody-somerville | Thunar is an amazing file manager/browser. I've fell completely in love with it. | 16:26 |
| cody-somerville | Although it doesn't offer all the features Nautalius does yet, it is fast, friendly, and powerful. | 16:26 |
| cody-somerville | And it doesn't stop there either. :) | 16:27 |
| cody-somerville | For example, Xfce4 has an excellent built in compositor that is extremely fast. | 16:27 |
| cody-somerville | Check out Xubuntu and I'm sure you'll see the differences :) | 16:28 |
| cody-somerville | IdleOne> QUESTION: I am a gnome user ( ubuntu default ) and am wondering why can't gnome be made lighter so it runs as quickly as xubuntu or fluxbuntu? this way the xubuntu resources could be dedicated to Ubuntu. | 16:29 |
| cody-somerville | IdleOne, Gnome has been making strives to become more "light weight" and they're doing a good job. However, target audience has a lot to do with just how light weight developers of a project will want to go. | 16:29 |
| cody-somerville | Gnome and Xfce4 each have their own target audience. | 16:30 |
| cody-somerville | Tricky question but a good one. However, you should know that when people contribute to Xubuntu they are also contributing to Ubuntu. | 16:30 |
| cody-somerville | If you'll excuse me, I'll be right back. :) | 16:31 |
| cody-somerville | Sorry about that, I just happen to be at work :) | 16:32 |
| cody-somerville | I'm going to move forward with my presentation now and I'll answer some more questions in a bit. | 16:33 |
| cody-somerville | Xubuntu is a relatively small project compared to Ubuntu when looking at the number of active contributors. | 16:33 |
| cody-somerville | Xubuntu has, in clearer terms, less manpower than Ubuntu does. Although Xubuntu stands on the shoulders of Ubuntu, Xubuntu still needs people who are directly interested in it! | 16:34 |
| cody-somerville | The project's small size is a benefit, IMHO, to those who are interested in getting involved in *buntu. | 16:34 |
| cody-somerville | If you were to decide to get involved with Xubuntu today, I think you'd find that you'd get more one on one time from its current set of contributors making it easier for you to get moving at your own pace. | 16:36 |
| cody-somerville | It also means that there is room for hopeful contributors to grow into different leadership positions within the Xubuntu community. | 16:37 |
| cody-somerville | I also like to think we're a fun, enjoyable group of people to be around. I know I've built a number of friendships through working on Xubuntu. Although thats not unique to Xubuntu, it is true that sometimes people get frustrated, confused, or disorientated because they're never sure who they need to talk to or the right person to ping. | 16:39 |
| cody-somerville | For those who are developer bound, this means that you'll be able to expedite your journey by more easily building a repertoire with your Xubuntu mentor/sponsor. | 16:41 |
| cody-somerville | So, why not get involved in Xubuntu? It is fun, exciting, easy, and enjoyable with lots of opportunity. I encourage you all to consider! :) | 16:42 |
| cody-somerville | Xubuntu 8.10 | 16:43 |
| cody-somerville | Our goals for the next release, Intrepid, are to make Xubuntu faster, more usable, and finally include a few extra features people have been asking for. | 16:43 |
| cody-somerville | For example, one feature that is being considered for inclusion is the ability to browse samba networks in Thunar. | 16:44 |
| cody-somerville | Another exciting piece of news for Xubuntu is that Xfce has decided to move to a time based release schedule and has currently their next release planned in time for Xubuntu 8.10 to include it. | 16:44 |
| cody-somerville | If the rumours and whispering is true, Xubuntu 8.10 will hopefully include Xfce 4.6 which will address a number of long standing issues such as the menu editor. | 16:46 |
| cody-somerville | Other rumours include a much improved xfce4 panel :) | 16:47 |
| cody-somerville | I think we'll also see a number of sneaky memory leaks squashed making Xfce4 perform even better :) | 16:48 |
| cody-somerville | Another feature being discussed specifically for Xubuntu is improving Xubuntu power management features. | 16:48 |
| cody-somerville | Important for laptop users. :) | 16:48 |
| cody-somerville | What sort of features would you guys like to see in Xubuntu 8.10? :) | 16:49 |
| cody-somerville | neenaoffline, We already ship Ristretto in Ubutnu 8.04 | 16:50 |
| cody-somerville | neenaoffline, However, I've heard some disturbing bug reports about Ristretto's memory use so we'll be re-evaluating its inclusion in Intrepid. | 16:51 |
| cody-somerville | To start the conclusion of my presentation here today, I'd like to once again encourage you all to consider getting involved in Xubuntu. | 16:52 |
| cody-somerville | I think you'll find that Xubuntu is fast, sharp, responsive -- it provides a good desktop to get work done in. | 16:53 |
| cody-somerville | Xubuntu 8.04 is reported to be the fastest Xubuntu yet and we intend to continue that trend with Intrepid. | 16:54 |
| cody-somerville | Xubuntu as a project is growing, developing, and maturing. Now is an excellent time to get involved. | 16:55 |
| cody-somerville | For more information about Xubuntu, you can visit http://xubuntu.org and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | 16:56 |
| cody-somerville | You're welcome to join us in #xubuntu-devel where we discuss and coordinate Xubuntu efforts. | 16:56 |
| cody-somerville | To download Xubuntu, visit http://xubuntu.org/get | 16:56 |
| cody-somerville | I'll now answer any last questions before I hand things back over to jcastro. | 16:57 |
| cody-somerville | <neenaoffline> yes, but what if I want a GNOME app while using XFCE ? | 16:58 |
| cody-somerville | You can run both Gnome and KDE applications in Xfce. | 16:59 |
| cody-somerville | <tech0007> will i see human theme window when i open a gnome program while inside xfce or not? | 16:59 |
| cody-somerville | No, the windows will be themed the same. | 16:59 |
| cody-somerville | However, KDE applications will still look QTish. | 17:00 |
| cody-somerville | Alright. Thanks everyone! | 17:00 |
| cody-somerville | I hope to see you in #xubuntu-devel | 17:00 |
| jcastro | thanks cody-somerville! | 17:01 |
| cody-somerville | We also have a mailing list at http://lists.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-devel | 17:01 |
| * cody-somerville cheers. | 17:01 | |
| cody-somerville | \o/ | 17:01 |
| === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Open Week | Information and Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | How to ask questions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Rules | Ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, prefaced with "QUESTION:" |See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/JoiningIn to filter out channel noise | Current session: "Community Q+A" - Jono Bacon | ||
| jcastro | ok every, Community Q+A with Jono Bacon is next! | 17:01 |
| jono | hello all :) | 17:02 |
| jono | :) | 17:02 |
| jono | ok, this session is totally driven by Q+A about anything you would like to know about the Ubuntu community, or myself | 17:03 |
| jono | everyone should post questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat and include QUESTION at the start of the line | 17:03 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: How many Ubuntu + Kubuntu + Edubuntu installations exit worldwide now? | 17:03 |
| jcastro | he means "exists" | 17:03 |
| jono | sorry, one second | 17:05 |
| jono | back | 17:06 |
| jono | sorry about that | 17:06 |
| jono | its impossibly difficult to tell the number of installations, Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Edubuntu are free software, so anyone could install it on any mahcine | 17:06 |
| jono | machine | 17:06 |
| jono | so its difficult to give decent figures | 17:06 |
| jono | we have got millions of users all over the world though, thats for sure | 17:06 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: jono, how'd you get started in Ubuntu? What made you get involved with it? | 17:08 |
| jono | I have been an Ubuntu user from the early days, and had an interest in it when it was just a rumour | 17:08 |
| jono | I then became an avid user, and co-wrote the Official Ubuntu Book | 17:09 |
| jono | at the time I was working for OpenAdvantage - a government funded project to spread Open Source in the UK, and heard about the job | 17:10 |
| jono | so I applied and after a bunch of interviews got it :) | 17:10 |
| jono | the thing I loved about Ubuntu was that it was doing something I had talked about for years - taking Debian and making it suitable for everyone | 17:10 |
| jono | I also really liked the strong commitment to community - it seemed a very pure approach, something which I think is the right thing to do | 17:11 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: There are a few mentions about the "Community Council" in the mailing lists and on the wiki, but I can't find anything about this council. Who is on it, and can you provide more information about it? | 17:11 |
| jono | the Community Council is the highest governing body in the Ubuntu community | 17:12 |
| jono | it approves and defines changes in how we govern our community | 17:12 |
| jono | you can read more about it at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/council - that page also says who is on it | 17:12 |
| jono | we have a diverse council, and most of the members don't work for Canonical | 17:13 |
| jcastro | < sommer> QUESTION: what is the process for membership, now that the Community Council doesn't handle that, are the local "councils" setup? | 17:13 |
| jono | sommer: we have been working on a change to how membership is approved, and it is nearly complete | 17:14 |
| jono | beforehand membership was approved by the Community Council, and it resulted in very very long CC sessions | 17:14 |
| jono | with so many people wanting to become members, we have set up three localised membership boards | 17:14 |
| jono | in the Americas, Australasia and Europe | 17:15 |
| jono | each board has around 10 people on it who will judge membership for people in that particular region | 17:15 |
| jono | the boards have been assigned, approved by the CC, the documentation is written and are about to be announced and put in place | 17:15 |
| jcastro | < dalejefferson> QUESTION: what would you like to see in Intrepid? | 17:16 |
| jono | I would love to see Intrepid focus more on a different and strong UI | 17:17 |
| jono | I would love to see new UI components | 17:18 |
| jono | and see the entire interface become sleeker - such as getting rid of modeline changes when booting | 17:18 |
| jcastro | < artir_> QUESTION:whats the state of Jokosher? | 17:19 |
| jono | hehe :) | 17:19 |
| jono | artir_: Jokosher is a project I was deeply involved in, but have not been able to contribute to due to time - I am pretty busy with my Ubuntu work, my music and my personal life | 17:20 |
| jono | its an incredible project and literally just needs a few bug fixes to the Gstreamer code in there and it will be ready to roll | 17:20 |
| jono | so if anyone wants to help out, let me know :) | 17:20 |
| jcastro | < RzR> jono: QUESTION: can you give resources about "bridges between" communities, I know about utnubu(debian) but I bet everyone will win by interconnecting communities, isnt it ? | 17:20 |
| jono | RzR: sure | 17:21 |
| jono | I think its always important to have strong connections between different communities | 17:21 |
| jono | we are all together in the same fishpond, and many of our processes and workflows are connected and related | 17:21 |
| jono | in terms of social connections, I think its also important to ensure that all communities have good connections to each other - it helps identify new and interesting projects and collaborations to work on | 17:22 |
| jono | part of the plan for my team is to help define these connections between Ubuntu and upstream, and this is something that jcastro works on - he works with upstream projects | 17:23 |
| jono | we approach this not only from a social level, but from an engineering level - seeing how we can match what we do and achieve interesting things | 17:23 |
| jcastro | < nosrednaekim> QUESTION: you say different and stronger UI ... does this mean KDE4 ? | 17:23 |
| jono | nosrednaekim: nope - Kubuntu does an excellent job with KDE4 | 17:24 |
| jono | I am talking about thematic changes, artwork, conceptual changes to common elements such as login, user switching, virtual desktop switching etc - I essentially mean an interesting merging of GNOME, Compiz, and lots of bits of integration | 17:24 |
| jono | I am also interested in changes to the model - people as topic level objects is an interesting approach | 17:25 |
| jcastro | < mybunche> QUESTION: Will you be writing the Official Ubuntu Book 3rd Edition this year? And will it be based on 8.04? | 17:25 |
| jono | mybunche: I won't be contributing new content to the 3rd Edition of the Official Ubuntu Book - I just don't have the time these days, and I imagine it will be based around 8.04 | 17:26 |
| jcastro | < artir_> QUESTION: Why is your beard so cool? XD | 17:26 |
| jono | artir_: haha | 17:26 |
| jono | well I think its cool, not sure everyone would agree :) | 17:27 |
| jono | its been through a lot of changes too - used to be fairly small but long, then small and less long, and now a thin strip | 17:27 |
| jono | but it feels so bouncy and manageable :P | 17:27 |
| jcastro | < dalejefferson> QUESTION: Follow up: Would you like to see a simpler interface, ie a easy mode for non power users (like the EEEPC | 17:27 |
| jono | dalejefferson: in my mind, the default Ubuntu interface should be suitable for non-power users - I am not keen on the idea of attaching different interfaces to different levels of skill - it makes people who use the simpler interfaces feel stupid - I think we can have one, unified interface that is suitable for all users - simple enough for new users and powerful and effective enough for power users :) | 17:29 |
| jcastro | < bobbo_> QUESTION: You dont seem to have much spare time these days, are you going to keep LugRadio going? | 17:29 |
| jono | bobbo_: yeah, things have been something of a rollercoaster in my life in the last year, both professionally and personally, and I am pretty much always on the go | 17:29 |
| jono | I have no plans of leaving LugRadio right now | 17:30 |
| jcastro | < toobuntu> QUESTION: "people as topic level objects is an interesting approach" Would you elaborate on this? | 17:30 |
| jono | toobuntu: sure | 17:30 |
| jono | the concept is basically that people represent an element in your interface | 17:31 |
| jono | there are lots of things you can do with people - email them, IM them, get things from them, send them things, learn about what they are doing, get their help etc | 17:31 |
| jono | much of what we do on computers today is about communicating with people about different things and achieving certain goals | 17:31 |
| jcastro | http://live.gnome.org/Soylent has more information on people-centric stuff | 17:31 |
| jono | I like the idea of this and I like the idea of how we can achieve this in Ubuntu | 17:32 |
| jcastro | < RzR> jono: QUESTION: this may be offtopic , but I was wondering if FLOSS communities are fully dependent of the internet ? any feedback from the unconnected world ? | 17:32 |
| jono | RzR: I think they largely are right now, the Internet is the mechanism in which we flow ideas and things that we work on in our community | 17:32 |
| jono | I love the fact that we are so connected, and have contributors all over the world - just this channel will have people from a huge range of countries in it - but it is a huge problem that so many people are disconnected based upon where they are living | 17:33 |
| jono | I am just not sure what the solution to that problem is | 17:33 |
| jcastro | < d33d> QUESTION: What technologies do you focus on when moving to a "better Ubuntu"...meaning, things like social networking, new hardware, how do those drive the developement in a "better Ubuntu"? | 17:34 |
| jono | d33d: indeed - social networking, better hardware support, ease of use, compatibility etc | 17:35 |
| jono | we want to ensure Ubuntu "just works" on every level, hardware, social, task-based...everything | 17:36 |
| jcastro | < DoruHush> QUESTION: Why well develop applications from older applications are whipped out in the new version and replaced with other with no functionality (nm, Screen&Graphics)? | 17:36 |
| jono | DoruHush: I don't understand the question, sorry | 17:37 |
| jcastro | < jerichokb> QUESTION: as Ubuntu spreads and the user base become much larger - for instance the french police force adopting ubuntu, iirc - do you envisage the community growing at the same rate, or slower/faster? | 17:37 |
| jono | jerichokb: sure, I expect the community will grow in tandem with the user base - the user base is the community to a large degree, and we need to ensure that our community scales and accomodates this new growth | 17:38 |
| jono | our community is going to continue to get bigger and bigger, thats for sure | 17:38 |
| jono | brb, 2 mins | 17:38 |
| jono | back | 17:41 |
| jono | sorry about that | 17:41 |
| jcastro | < DoruHush> QUESTION: What mentoring means to community and who does it? | 17:41 |
| jono | DoruHush: mentoring is an important part in a community - and it essentially mean helping people to be productive | 17:41 |
| jono | we try to encourage as much mentoring as possible, in all parts of the project | 17:42 |
| jono | you can see it in MOTU, LoCo Teams, and else where | 17:42 |
| jcastro | < mybunche> QUESTION: Are thoughts on moving to a default 2 CD image? More room to play with so-to-speak. I feel that the size of a 1 CD image is restrictive for Ubuntu and maybe pushing some users away because their install don't work. | 17:43 |
| jono | mybunche: I disagree, I think the one-cd approach is one of our biggest assets - people can get one CD and install full Operating System | 17:44 |
| jono | we make easy for people to download additional functionality, so I think it is less of an issue | 17:44 |
| jono | as for a possible optional add-on CD, I am not the best person to ask about if that would be doable | 17:44 |
| jcastro | < mybunche> QUESTION: Are thoughts on moving to a default 2 CD image? More room to play with so-to-speak. I feel that the size of a 1 CD image is restrictive for Ubuntu and maybe pushing some users away because their install don't work.(rephrasing DoruHush's previous question): Why are tools like networkmanager and screens&graphics put into a release even if there are regressions from the previous tools? | 17:45 |
| jcastro | oops | 17:45 |
| jcastro | (rephrasing DoruHush's previous question): Why are tools like networkmanager and screens&graphics put into a release even if there are regressions from the previous tools? | 17:45 |
| jcastro | sorry | 17:45 |
| jono | DoruHush: you will need to speak to the package maintainers about that | 17:45 |
| jcastro | < jake_peters> QUESTION: Jono, seems like you attend many conventions, how do these off-line events matter for the community and as the community grows, do you think the role face-to-face interaction will change? | 17:46 |
| jono | jake_peters: I think face-to-face conferences have their place - much of it for me is being there to speak face-to-face with specific groups, but naturally confs are very time consuming and expensive, so I try to limit them where possible (and still end up travelling all the time!) | 17:47 |
| jono | I think as the community grows the number of confs will grow, and we will see less of the same people visiting every conf | 17:47 |
| jcastro | * waiting on questions * | 17:48 |
| jono | looks like we are done | 17:48 |
| jcastro | one more! | 17:48 |
| jcastro | < tehk> QUESTION: A new slew of Girl Friend/grandma Test blog post have sprung up, and they stumble when it comes to installing things. Do you think a quick 'on first start' video that explains Add/Remove would help? | 17:48 |
| jono | ok, last one | 17:48 |
| jono | tehk: I would love to see this - and popey is the best person to ask about this | 17:49 |
| jono | maybe popey speak to you about this in -chat | 17:49 |
| jono | ok, I think we are done | 17:50 |
| jono | thanks everyone! | 17:50 |
| jcastro | woo, thanks everyone for showing up! | 17:50 |
| jono | have a great open week :) | 17:50 |
| jcastro | In about 9 minutes we have Intro to Mobile Testing | 17:50 |
| jcastro | ok, about 5 minutes until Intro to Mobile Testing! | 17:54 |
| === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Open Week | Information and Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | How to ask questions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Rules | Ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, prefaced with "QUESTION:" |See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/JoiningIn to filter out channel noise | Current Session: "Intro to Mobile Testing" - Chris Gregan and Dave Morley | ||
| jcastro | Ok, Intro to Mobile Testing with Chris Gregan and Dave Morley, take it away guys! | 17:59 |
| cgregan | Good morning, afternoon, evening everyone | 17:59 |
| cgregan | First let me introduce mayself | 17:59 |
| cgregan | I am the lead tester for Ubuntu Mobile Edition | 18:00 |
| cgregan | Today we will be doing a review of UME and how testing is being done | 18:00 |
| cgregan | I will cover several topics. At the end of each section I will open up the floor for questions | 18:01 |
| cgregan | We'll start with a brief overview of UME, then discuss supported hardware | 18:01 |
| cgregan | Afterwards a bit about the tools we use to test | 18:01 |
| cgregan | Then where to get cases and finally how to submit defects against UME | 18:02 |
| cgregan | So...Lets start | 18:02 |
| cgregan | UME is a project that was started in collaboration with Intel | 18:03 |
| cgregan | The idea was to have an open source OS that supported Intel's new Mobile Internet Device platform | 18:03 |
| cgregan | So...we signed up and have begun putting together a version of Hardy which will do exactly that | 18:04 |
| cgregan | There are several areas that needed to be adjusted to support this platform. | 18:04 |
| cgregan | Most changes are Kernel and driver | 18:05 |
| cgregan | Right now the daily builds are focused on only a couple hardware platforms | 18:05 |
| cgregan | However, our goal is to make it as widely available, platform-wise | 18:06 |
| cgregan | Then of course...get all of you involved to improve it | 18:06 |
| cgregan | So....the platforms we support currently are the Samsung Q1 (known as Mccaslin) | 18:07 |
| cgregan | and the Intel reference hardware (known as Menlow) | 18:07 |
| cgregan | They are both x86. | 18:07 |
| cgregan | We have a project page setup in Launchpad that you can check out for more info: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/ | 18:08 |
| cgregan | Ok....any questions so far? | 18:08 |
| popey | 18:07 < popey> QUESTION: What sort of hardware spec are these mobile devices? | 18:09 |
| cgregan | popey: QUESTION: What sort of hardware spec are these mobile devices? | 18:09 |
| popey | heh | 18:09 |
| cgregan | So they are x86 and at full speed the intel platform runs at 1.6 Ghz | 18:10 |
| popey | memory, storage, other funky devices? | 18:10 |
| cgregan | Reference devices so far have been coming with flash drives of about 1 G | 18:11 |
| cgregan | Memory is around 512Mbs | 18:11 |
| cgregan | But this is just reference and all those specs can be adjusted by manufacturer | 18:11 |
| cgregan | Processor speed is about all that is fixed at the top. | 18:12 |
| davmor2_laptop | artir: QUESTION: Will we ever have a ubuntu phone?(mada by canonical) | 18:12 |
| cgregan | Just to wet your appetites...the reference devices are very cool. 5 radios, 3d graphics, etc. | 18:13 |
| cgregan | I know of no plans to release a device from Canonical | 18:13 |
| davmor2_laptop | QUESTION: can this hardware be accessible to any developper between shiping date ? | 18:13 |
| cgregan | Our goal is to become THE OS for MID platform. They will ask for us by name | 18:13 |
| cgregan | Currently, the only commercial hardware on the market that we support is the Samsung Q1 | 18:14 |
| davmor2_laptop | mybunche: QUESTION: Will you encourage/liase with/assist product manufactures (eg Nokia) to adopt UME? | 18:15 |
| cgregan | We are working on some plans to introduce a program like the laptop initiative from a year ago...with MIDs, but we need some commercial devices for that | 18:15 |
| cgregan | mybunche: They are currently coming to US, but yes | 18:15 |
| cgregan | Ok.....shall we move on? | 18:16 |
| cgregan | Tools! | 18:16 |
| cgregan | So we use a development tool known as Moblin Image Creator | 18:17 |
| cgregan | It was developed by Intel's Moblin project | 18:17 |
| cgregan | Basically, it is an image creation tool. | 18:17 |
| cgregan | Since these devices have no drives, you need to use a boot USB image to flash to a new OS | 18:18 |
| cgregan | MIC does this for us | 18:18 |
| cgregan | It is freely available in Ubuntu Universe Repo using Synaptic | 18:18 |
| cgregan | We have some project wikis with setup info here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UMEinstall | 18:19 |
| cgregan | Once you have it installed it is launched by icon in your Gnome Menu | 18:20 |
| cgregan | Ok...so now you have MIC, but no UME yet. For that there are two methods | 18:20 |
| cgregan | First...you are lucky to have a Q1 now...or a menlow device when they come out in a few month | 18:21 |
| cgregan | What you want is the .img file from our build area | 18:21 |
| cgregan | For Mccaslin: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/moblin/hardy/menlow_full/ | 18:22 |
| cgregan | Whoops: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/moblin/hardy/mccaslin_samsungq1ultrafull/ | 18:22 |
| cgregan | ok...then for menlow: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/moblin/hardy/menlow_full/ | 18:22 |
| cgregan | The .img files are not too large, but fast connection is recommended | 18:23 |
| cgregan | Next you need a USB key...1Gb should do it | 18:23 |
| cgregan | Launch MIC then use the Tools menu to Write USB Image | 18:24 |
| cgregan | It will then ask you for the img location and then your USB mount | 18:24 |
| cgregan | Some chugging...and then you have a boot device | 18:24 |
| cgregan | Plug the key into your Q1 or Menlow and reboot | 18:25 |
| cgregan | You will get a warning screen....which I repeat here: | 18:25 |
| cgregan | The image will COMPLETELY overwrite your device storage....so move your rare flac bootlegs and pictures of the kid's 1st birthday off first! :-) | 18:26 |
| cgregan | Ok....that was a fairly large info dump...any questions on device install? | 18:27 |
| davmor2_laptop | No | 18:28 |
| cgregan | Ok.....then lets move onto the steps for emulating...so we can all see the build without a device! | 18:28 |
| cgregan | Built into MIC is a tool called Xephyr | 18:28 |
| cgregan | It emulated X environments | 18:28 |
| cgregan | and allows us to test builds without a device | 18:28 |
| cgregan | It has some drawbacks....like you run as root. But for a basic idea of the build and some basic testing it is ok | 18:29 |
| cgregan | For emulation you need the Project tarball | 18:29 |
| cgregan | from our build area: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/moblin/hardy/menlow/ | 18:30 |
| cgregan | With MIC open use the File Menu to Load a Project | 18:31 |
| cgregan | It will ask you to pick the tar file | 18:31 |
| cgregan | And name the project file to install the chroot environment | 18:31 |
| cgregan | We tend to use a standard format so we know which build we are working on | 18:32 |
| cgregan | So something like Menlow04_30 | 18:33 |
| cgregan | It will then think for quite a while | 18:33 |
| cgregan | So it is a good time to run that load of laundry or grab a bite to eat | 18:34 |
| cgregan | Once you have the project loaded...you will see it appear in the upper field in MIC | 18:34 |
| cgregan | Clicking the project will populate the Targets area below | 18:35 |
| cgregan | We have two in each build, but we are going to focus on the "full" here | 18:35 |
| cgregan | So....select the full Target and click the Terminal button above it | 18:36 |
| cgregan | This opens a chroot window for the full version | 18:36 |
| cgregan | Now....there is a quick change we need to make here | 18:36 |
| cgregan | The resolv.conf for the chroot is set to the build machine..so you will not have network connectivity if you do not edit it | 18:37 |
| cgregan | So just vim /etc/resolv.conf | 18:37 |
| cgregan | and change buildd to your domain | 18:37 |
| cgregan | and the IP to your gateway IP | 18:38 |
| cgregan | Ping Google.com to confirm | 18:38 |
| cgregan | Ok....so now lets see the build. Type ume-xephyr-start | 18:39 |
| cgregan | After a short boot, you will be looking at a "hildon-ized" gnome desktop | 18:39 |
| cgregan | So rows of icons to access the mobile apps included | 18:40 |
| cgregan | Now play around. We are still in very active testing so things are very fluid | 18:40 |
| cgregan | One nice thing about UME is that it is a reference platform | 18:41 |
| cgregan | this means it is a foundation | 18:41 |
| cgregan | so it supports flash and html overlays of the desktop | 18:41 |
| cgregan | so although the standard desktop is kinda utilitarian...you can easily make it quite nice | 18:42 |
| cgregan | I have seen some very slick demo desktops in flash | 18:42 |
| cgregan | Ok...questions? | 18:43 |
| cgregan | Alright.....then lets move to testing | 18:44 |
| cgregan | We have created a suite of cases based on the partnership requirements with Intel | 18:44 |
| cgregan | The wiki landing page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UMEdesktop | 18:45 |
| cgregan | They are divided into three groups | 18:45 |
| cgregan | Basic, Advanced, and Compliance | 18:45 |
| cgregan | Basic is exactly that. Simple cases to exercise the most used features | 18:45 |
| cgregan | Advanced cases require either more system knowledge, or access to resource that we might not all have...like proprietary codecs for example | 18:46 |
| cgregan | Compliance cases cover the agreed upon stats for the system. Disk usage, UI design, performance, etc. | 18:47 |
| cgregan | These are agreed upon targets that we have agreed to meet | 18:47 |
| cgregan | So we need to make sure they are met | 18:47 |
| cgregan | Feel free to click around review and even exercise some cases n Xephyr | 18:48 |
| cgregan | Each case has a table at the top with version of the build the cases were last run | 18:48 |
| cgregan | With that said...updating that table has fallen a bit behind in the rush to test this release cycle...so they are blank for the most part | 18:49 |
| cgregan | But feel free to use it | 18:49 |
| cgregan | Once we have a regular release that can be tracked more like the traditional Ubuntu builds | 18:50 |
| cgregan | Right now we are not operating that way | 18:50 |
| cgregan | But after the may release I encourage all of you to look around and test some things | 18:50 |
| cgregan | So...you tested and now you found some minor issues | 18:51 |
| cgregan | We have a template we would like to see used | 18:51 |
| cgregan | You can find it on the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UMEdesktop | 18:51 |
| cgregan | Paste it into the report and fill out each section as carefully and thoroughly as possible | 18:52 |
| cgregan | Here is an example of a good one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+bug/218850 | 18:52 |
| cgregan | Feel free to add more info | 18:53 |
| cgregan | Don't worry if you forget to use it...I will remind you: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+bug/221503 | 18:53 |
| cgregan | Of course be sure you are running the latest build when you log an issue against UME. | 18:54 |
| === asac_ is now known as asac | ||
| cgregan | One last thing...more than ubuntu and canonical folks are watching these bugs so lets make sure we keep it very professional in the bugs | 18:55 |
| cgregan | We want to give these customers the best impression of our community | 18:55 |
| cgregan | And that is it | 18:55 |
| cgregan | Last 5 for questions | 18:55 |
| davmor2_laptop | Can it be installed on an eeepc? | 18:56 |
| cgregan | davmor2_laptop: Not currently...we are building for two specific platforms so the drivers for devices not on those platforms are not loaded to save space | 18:57 |
| cgregan | But it is possible with some kernel changes and modprobing | 18:57 |
| cgregan | If there is a ton of interest we can look into what exactly needs to be changed and post it | 18:57 |
| cgregan | But that would be after May 30 | 18:58 |
| davmor2_laptop | one of the other questions was on the browser backend | 18:58 |
| cgregan | The browser is based on Firefox which has been customized by the Moblin project folks | 18:59 |
| jcastro | ok, we're out of time, can you point people to your irc channel if they have more questions? | 18:59 |
| cgregan | Well...thanks for listening in. If you have other questions feel free to ping me on irc or email | 18:59 |
| === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Open Week | Information and Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | How to ask questions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Rules | Ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, prefaced with "QUESTION:" |See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/JoiningIn to filter out channel noise | Current Session: "Packaging Firefox Extensions" - Alexander Sack | ||
| jcastro | ok, next up is Packaging Firefox Extensions with asac! | 19:00 |
| asac | thanks jcastro | 19:00 |
| jcastro | asac: take it away! | 19:00 |
| asac | Welcome to the Firefox Extension Packaging world. | 19:00 |
| asac | First I want to give some general information about extension packaging. In particular the why. | 19:00 |
| asac | (this questions pops-up frequently so i think its good to address here upfront) | 19:01 |
| asac | Then I'll go and give a quick review on what was done during the hardy cycle and where we plan to go for the future. | 19:01 |
| asac | Next, I will give a short insight in how you can contribute. | 19:01 |
| asac | and finally we'll go and exercise some basics by packaging an extension. For that we will repackage ubufox which should help to show. | 19:02 |
| asac | the general idea | 19:02 |
| asac | So why do we want extensions packaged. Isn't addons.mozilla.org good enough? | 19:02 |
| asac | addons.mozilla.org surely is a great portal for getting extensions and automatically updating them. | 19:03 |
| asac | But its not all positive: | 19:03 |
| asac | 1. it doesn't allow you to install extensions globally easily. | 19:03 |
| asac | 2. more important is the fact that automatically updated extensions might not match the quality expectations of users, especially in corporate environments | 19:03 |
| asac | packaged extensions would allow us to stabilize extensions and given the track record of crashes due to extensions it looks worth to do | 19:04 |
| asac | Any questions on these? | 19:05 |
| asac | < toobuntu> QUESTION: Are Ubuntu packaged Firefox extensions meant to replace the -install-global-extension option? There seem to often be issues with permissions and configs, and they globals just haven't work out well for me in a multiuser environment. | 19:05 |
| asac | right the install global option is not really working properly | 19:06 |
| asac | packages don't replace it, but its the better approach for distributing extensions | 19:06 |
| asac | ok lets go on | 19:06 |
| jcastro | * waiting on questions * | 19:07 |
| asac | OK, lets move one. What was done in hardy? | 19:08 |
| asac | In hardy we started to package extensions using our new mozilla-devscripts helpers that make packaging quite easy | 19:09 |
| asac | we will use this helper to package the example later on | 19:09 |
| asac | anyway, It was hard work, especially since most extensions were not yet available for firefox 3. | 19:09 |
| asac | But thanks to the hard work of contributors we managed to get more extensions into the archive than ever before. | 19:10 |
| asac | An overview of packages can be seen on the firefox 3 extension page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Firefox3Extensions which is used to document the data needed to properly maintain extensions in ubuntu. | 19:10 |
| asac | so in short, I would declare this a victory and i want to express my thanks to all involved in making that happen | 19:11 |
| asac | However, we are still not where we would like to be and for intrepid we are planning to scale this up. | 19:11 |
| asac | Based on our experiences from the hardy cycle we discussed how to better automize the extension packaging process. | 19:12 |
| asac | which is a requirement to maintain as many extensions as possible in the future with as little manpower as possible. | 19:12 |
| asac | of course we will still need you on the manpower side ;) | 19:13 |
| asac | as not everything can be done automatically | 19:13 |
| asac | For those intereseted the (not yet finished) current state of that discussion can be found on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Firefox3Extensions/LargeScaleMaintenance | 19:14 |
| asac | Any questions? | 19:14 |
| jcastro | < toobuntu> QUESTION: If we encounter an extension that is not already packaged, we should make an effort to package it, then? Please tell us what's involved... | 19:15 |
| asac | i think we will come to that later. but basically all starts with adding the extension to the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Firefox3Extensions wiki page and gather all the data in the table | 19:15 |
| asac | once that is done and everything is available, the packaging can start. | 19:16 |
| asac | its not even required that you do the packaging on your own. getting the data is often harder than packaging itself | 19:16 |
| asac | :) | 19:16 |
| asac | especially sorting out licensing ;) | 19:16 |
| asac | Next | 19:16 |
| jcastro | < MiSc0110> QUESTION: Are this packaged extensions for Firefox only, or are they for Thunderbird too? | 19:17 |
| asac | currently we focussed on extensions for firefox | 19:17 |
| asac | but that doesn't mean that we won't do the same for thunderbird in future. | 19:18 |
| asac | I agree, that we should add a similar wiki page for thunderbird extensions. the process will be similar and we can certainly maintain include thunderbird extensions in our intrepid work | 19:18 |
| asac | Next | 19:19 |
| asac | (if you are interested in particular thunderbird extensions, please come to #ubuntu-mozillateam channel and ask there) | 19:19 |
| asac | ok ... lets move on | 19:20 |
| asac | So, how can you contribute? | 19:20 |
| asac | obviously you can help doing the packaging work. after some practice you will usually learn quickly how to package extensions | 19:20 |
| asac | and usually reach an expertise level just after a few extensions. | 19:21 |
| asac | packaging extensions is definitly a good starter task | 19:21 |
| asac | but as said above, you can also contribute by suggesting new extensions | 19:21 |
| asac | and getting all the data required before we can start packaging them. | 19:21 |
| asac | for that you do not need any special technical skills | 19:22 |
| asac | as said above the most important things you need to figure before you suggest an extension for packaging is to check: | 19:22 |
| asac | 1. does the .xpi include a license file - and is the license suitable for ubuntu | 19:22 |
| asac | 2. does the xpi support firefox 3 - if not, does it work if you disable compatibility. | 19:22 |
| asac | however, extension authors are not really used to licensing and often they just don't know the difference of including a license in the .xpi or just stating the license on a website | 19:23 |
| asac | so if there is no license file in the .xpi it makes sense to contact the author, explaining the situation and asking him politely to include a license file in the top level directory of the xpi | 19:24 |
| asac | Which license is suitable and how to check if an extension works with firefox 3 is documented in the first paragraph of the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Firefox3Extensions wiki page. | 19:24 |
| asac | (there might be more licenses, but the list should cover most cases) | 19:24 |
| asac | Questions? | 19:25 |
| ompaul | Question: how does one disable compatibility | 19:25 |
| asac | this is documented in the top most paragraph on the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Firefox3Extensions page | 19:25 |
| asac | you have set the extensions.checkCompatibility to false | 19:26 |
| asac | in about:config | 19:26 |
| asac | next | 19:26 |
| asac | OK, lets get started on the packaging excersize for today. | 19:27 |
| asac | I wrote a basic packaging page once: | 19:27 |
| asac | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Firefox3Extensions/Packaging | 19:27 |
| asac | You do not need to read it now, please just do what is listed in the Prerequisites section (on top of that page). | 19:27 |
| asac | (if you want to do this excersize) | 19:28 |
| asac | OK, lets wait a few minutes for those of you who want to follow ... | 19:28 |
| asac | feel free to ask questions during this excersize whenever you want :) | 19:28 |
| asac | ok, while you are finalizing your preparations some words. | 19:33 |
| asac | packaging usually starts with setting up an upstream branch | 19:33 |
| asac | this is what the ubufox.upstream branch is. | 19:34 |
| asac | its a bit unfair, because ubufox ships decent sources, and in real live you need to convert .xpis to proper upstream branches first | 19:34 |
| ompaul | rogfou> QUESTION: what is the policy for updating such extension packages? especially for an LTS (it's ok to answer this question after the exercise if prefered) | 19:34 |
| asac | our largescalemaintenance approachs plans to provide latest extensions to -backports for _all_ stable distributions | 19:35 |
| asac | unless there is a serious bug we won't send new upstrewam versions to -updates though. but i think thats a good compromise | 19:36 |
| asac | serving our users with a somewhat similar experience than AMO ... just QAed and opt-in | 19:36 |
| asac | end of answer :) | 19:36 |
| asac | ok, lets go on | 19:36 |
| asac | so basically you need an .upstream branch. based on that you create a packaging branch. to do so run: | 19:37 |
| asac | bzr branch ubufox.upstream ubufox.ubuntu | 19:37 |
| asac | this will create a ubufox.ubuntu directory next to your ubufox.upstream branch | 19:37 |
| asac | now we have to add the initial packaging. | 19:38 |
| asac | for that we copy the debian/ directory from the XPI.TEMPLATE into the ubufox.ubuntu directory | 19:38 |
| asac | e.g. cp -r XPI.TEMPLATE/debian ubufox.ubuntu/ | 19:38 |
| asac | then you switch to the ubufox.ubuntu directory | 19:39 |
| asac | cd ubufox.ubuntu | 19:39 |
| asac | and add the new files to the branch | 19:39 |
| asac | bzr add debian | 19:39 |
| asac | the output i get from this looks like: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8993/ | 19:40 |
| asac | the content of the ubufox.ubuntu directory looks like http://paste.ubuntu.com/8994/ after doing that | 19:40 |
| asac | now you have to edit the template files | 19:41 |
| asac | 1. changelog: change the package name in the first line to match the package you are trying to package | 19:41 |
| asac | and change the name to match your name/email | 19:41 |
| asac | the changelog currently contains some documentation about the best-practices on how to commit, but thats not important for this session. | 19:42 |
| asac | usually you would also change the version of the changelog to match the upstream version (which is in install.rdf) | 19:42 |
| asac | so in this case you would use 0.6~a1-0ubuntu1 | 19:43 |
| asac | 2. control: here you have to change the Source: field to match your package (ubufox) and the XSBC-Original-Maintainer field (use your name if you want to be the primary packaging contact) | 19:44 |
| asac | usually you would also change the Vcs-Bzr field, but since this is just an excersize you can skip this | 19:44 |
| asac | together with fixing package description and so on | 19:44 |
| asac | in case you would create a thunderbird extension you would also adapt the Depends: field accordingly. | 19:45 |
| asac | the template should cover the most common firefox cases (usable for firefox 2 + firefox 3) | 19:45 |
| asac | 3. copyright ... you don't need to edit this for this excersize. usually you would fill in the license of the extension you package | 19:46 |
| asac | oh, for 2. i forgot that you need to change the Package: field as well (ubufox) | 19:47 |
| asac | 4. rules: here you have to change the fields MOZ_EXTENSION_PKG and the MOZ_XPI_BUILD_COMMAND | 19:48 |
| asac | the MOZ_EXTENSION_PKG would be the value you added to the Package: field in control | 19:48 |
| asac | the MOZ_XPI_BUILD_COMMAND is expected to produce an .xpi in the top level directory | 19:49 |
| asac | the rules files looks like http://paste.ubuntu.com/8996/ for me now | 19:49 |
| asac | ok lets sync up | 19:50 |
| asac | my changelog looks like: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8998/ | 19:51 |
| asac | my control looks like: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8999/ | 19:51 |
| asac | and the rules like above (http://paste.ubuntu.com/8996/) | 19:52 |
| asac | when you are done you can commit everything like | 19:52 |
| asac | bzr commit -m "* initial packaging (0.6~a1-0ubuntu1)" | 19:52 |
| asac | and do a test build | 19:52 |
| asac | dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b | 19:52 |
| asac | ok, kind of a rush, but i hope you could follow | 19:53 |
| asac | questions so far? | 19:53 |
| ompaul | <progfou> QUESTION: does the update policy specify if one should update only on security issue and major bugs correction (data loss) or also on added new features? | 19:53 |
| asac | problems? | 19:53 |
| asac | we want latest extensions everywhere ... thats why our policy for -backports allows new features | 19:53 |
| ompaul | <artir> dpkg-buildpackage: fallo: fakeroot debian/rules binary gave error exit status 2 | 19:53 |
| asac | for -updates we have the same policy as the ubuntu distribution | 19:54 |
| asac | e.g. only security related changes that are minimal. | 19:54 |
| asac | however, security issues have to be considered case-by-case | 19:54 |
| asac | there might be cases where updating to latest upstream might be better, but usually we want minimal patches for security changes | 19:55 |
| asac | next | 19:55 |
| asac | ah | 19:55 |
| asac | for that error, please post the complete output | 19:55 |
| ompaul | <artir> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9002/ | 19:56 |
| asac | anyway. i think time is running low. if you want to finish this excersize feel free to join us in #ubuntu-mozillateam. we can surely sort out the final issues there :) | 19:58 |
| ompaul | mailing list? | 19:58 |
| asac | same goes for further questions. you can ask in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, or in the mozillateam channel | 19:58 |
| asac | mailing list is: ubuntu-mozillateam AT lists DOT ubuntu DOT com. | 19:59 |
| asac | but you need to be subscribed. most discussion happens in #ubuntu-mozillteam | 19:59 |
| ompaul | asac, thank you \o/ | 19:59 |
| asac | thanks for joining ... and thanks for helping for extension packaging in future | 19:59 |
| asac | hope you had some fun at least ;) | 19:59 |
| === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Open Week | Information and Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | How to ask questions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Rules | Ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, prefaced with "QUESTION:" |See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/JoiningIn to filter out channel noise | Current Session: "Ubuntu Artwork" - Ken Wimer | ||
| jcastro | kwwii: you're up! | 20:00 |
| kwwii | ok, here we go :-) | 20:00 |
| jcastro | Next up is Ubuntu Artwork with Ken Wimer! | 20:01 |
| kwwii | Hi everyone, thanks for taking the time to be here | 20:01 |
| kwwii | My name is Kenneth Wimer. I work on art and design on the Ubuntu artwork team | 20:01 |
| kwwii | I thought I would start off by explaining a bit about the art team and what we do | 20:01 |
| kwwii | and then we can answer any questions that come up | 20:01 |
| kwwii | The Ubuntu artwork team are the people behind planning and creating artwork for community based themes, the default ubuntu theme, and packaging said artwork. | 20:02 |
| kwwii | We communicate through the wiki, mailing list and irc channel. | 20:02 |
| kwwii | For many people, at first they think all we do is draw pretty pictures but there is a lot more to it when you get down to creating an entire theme. | 20:02 |
| kwwii | just a small list: | 20:03 |
| kwwii | installer, usplash, login manager, and the various desktop pieces like wallpaper, screensaver, splash-screens, icons, window decorations, widget styles, etc. | 20:03 |
| kwwii | For many people, at first they think all we do is draw pretty pictures but there is a lot more to it when you get down to creating an entire theme. | 20:03 |
| kwwii | erm | 20:03 |
| kwwii | There has been a lot of interest recently in getting theme teams together to create community based themes with original artwork. | 20:03 |
| kwwii | This is a great way to show off what we have to offer - I am looking forward to seeing what everyone can come up with. | 20:04 |
| kwwii | Now that Hardy is out the door things have been heating up again for Intrepid. | 20:04 |
| kwwii | We have been doing quite a bit of planning for future releases and with Intrepid I think that we'll see more change than we have in the past couple of releases. | 20:05 |
| kwwii | I would like to be able to take a few bold steps towards defining an appealing and unique interface. | 20:06 |
| kwwii | Maybe at this point I should say that brown is here to stay :-) Brown identifies us, it sets us apart and if done correctly can be very compelling and interesting. | 20:06 |
| ompaul | <rubicon_> QUESTION: are you planning to create one (or more) unified theme(s) for the intrepid? usplash, gdm, GTK, Qt, everything? | 20:06 |
| kwwii | we will have one theme for intrepid but theming between qt and gtk is quite different | 20:07 |
| kwwii | I do not that we will see one theme for everything anytime soon | 20:08 |
| kwwii | On a non-artsy side, packaging the pieces is a lot of work, in and of itself, not to mention trying to actually change something more than a pic here and there. | 20:09 |
| kwwii | Also, there are always technical issues coming up with art bugs. | 20:09 |
| kwwii | Quite often a bug is subscribed to the art team because of some visual error which is not actually a problem with the artwork. | 20:09 |
| ompaul | <PartyPaladin> QUESTION: I'm a photographer. Is there anything I could do to contribute, and if so what sort of photos are useful? | 20:11 |
| kwwii | photographers can be a great help | 20:11 |
| kwwii | for instance, we use cropped pictures or textures from pictures in splash screens, wallpapers and more | 20:12 |
| kwwii | so, with a healthy dose of Gimp magic anything is possible | 20:12 |
| kwwii | maybe I should add here that if anyone is interested in joining the team, they should check out the wiki page | 20:13 |
| kwwii | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork | 20:13 |
| kwwii | there are instructions on how to join | 20:13 |
| kwwii | one last thing on photography...it is important that the artist use a CC or other open source license so that we can include it in the distribution | 20:14 |
| ompaul | more than just CC it needs to allow commercial redistribution or else it can't be put in distros | 20:14 |
| ompaul | <J-_> Question: Will Intrepid have any significant UI changes? I suppose that's moreso a GNOME question. | 20:15 |
| kwwii | Ubuntu Intrepid will hopefully have lots of UI changes if you ask me | 20:15 |
| kwwii | I would like to see us work on renewing the style and window decorations as well as use 2D icons in the panel, not to mention simply refreshing the human icon set | 20:16 |
| kwwii | naturally, that goes along with the usplash, gdm and wallpaper | 20:16 |
| kwwii | some of the ideas which we will first show in Intrepid will only come to fruition in later releases though | 20:16 |
| kwwii | so we might start testing more radical ideas soon only to pull some closer to release, working on them further in later releases | 20:17 |
| ompaul | <Alsvartr> QUESTION: does free software have all the functions you need in your work? Do you use non-free or proprietary software? | 20:17 |
| kwwii | I used to use Adobe products quite a bit. I still have a mac with osx on it and every now I do still use an app or two | 20:19 |
| kwwii | in the meantime inkscape and krita are just about all I need | 20:19 |
| kwwii | inkscape is the main tool, I can do pretty much anything with it :-) | 20:19 |
| kwwii | scribus is very popular with people doing layouts but I don't do that much | 20:20 |
| kwwii | I have also played with pencil for sketching with my tablet | 20:20 |
| ompaul | <PartyPaladin> QUESTION: Are there any resources you would recommend for a beginner that's interested in learning how to make Gnome themes? | 20:21 |
| kwwii | a whole Gnome theme is a pretty complicated issue as it contains a metacity theme, an icon theme, a style and probably a wallpaper | 20:22 |
| kwwii | I would say that the best thing to do is think of one thing you want to change and look into that | 20:22 |
| kwwii | we have a list of information sources on the wiki | 20:22 |
| kwwii | and asking in irc is also a quick way if someone is around | 20:23 |
| kwwii | the most basic thing is to learn to do artwork (with inkscape prefereably) | 20:23 |
| kwwii | and learn how to figure out small technical issues or know who else to ask | 20:23 |
| ompaul | <bersace> QUESTION: kwwii : do you plan following the same concept, just evolving it, during the next two years in order to produce a very polished theme for next LTS ? | 20:24 |
| kwwii | yes, we began to plan for the next several releases during Hardy. We hope to create a new look and style which evolves over the course of this LTS cycle | 20:25 |
| kwwii | this is why we have a chance to play around more in Intrepid than we could in Hardy | 20:25 |
| kwwii | again, it will still be brown though :-) | 20:25 |
| ompaul | bersace> QUESTION: Do you intend follow Tango guideline in Human Theme (at least solve usability and consistency ?) | 20:26 |
| kwwii | as Gnome uses icons which follow the Tango guidelines I think that we have to pay attention to them to some extent | 20:27 |
| kwwii | but I would not say that we are bound by the Tango guidelines | 20:27 |
| kwwii | so we will use them as a basis but change things as we see fit | 20:28 |
| ompaul | <_kavOOr_> QUESTION : why was the desktop loading splash screen removed gutsy onwards ? | 20:28 |
| kwwii | afaik, it turned out that it took longer to load the splash screen and icons and do the animation than it did to start the desktop in most cases | 20:29 |
| jcastro | yes that was a GNOME upstream change | 20:30 |
| kwwii | the splash screen was really only there to hide the fact that it took so long to load the desktop :-) | 20:30 |
| ompaul | <thorwil> QUESTION: how will the metacity/compiz split be dealt with in future? | 20:30 |
| kwwii | although that is more of a technical question it directly effects what we can do on the desktop in the future so the best I can say is that whatever works best usually gets picked by the devs in charge | 20:32 |
| kwwii | my guess is that compiz is around for a while | 20:32 |
| jcastro | < lukeen> QUESTION: Can you please support Cimi with his Murrine engine and especially the rgba transparency thing? I think he still needs a configurator, a simple version of a configurator could be included in the appeareance dialog so people can not only choose the color, but also how compact and glassy a theme should be. | 20:32 |
| kwwii | actually, I would very much like to support him but I already have one child at home :p | 20:33 |
| kwwii | I think his work rocks | 20:33 |
| kwwii | and I really think that some version of murrine is the way to move forward | 20:33 |
| kwwii | everyone loves to configure things | 20:33 |
| jcastro | < Leviath> QUESTION: Does the art-team somehow contribute to the linux-community outside of ubuntu? | 20:34 |
| kwwii | we just included human themes with the GUI configurable colors | 20:34 |
| kwwii | people like being able to choose on some things | 20:34 |
| kwwii | until now very little of what the art team has done has gone upstream other than bug fixes | 20:35 |
| kwwii | one thing that we are working on is improving the OOo icons | 20:35 |
| kwwii | and sending, where appropriate, our icons upstream to tango | 20:36 |
| kwwii | in the end, the ubuntu default theme is not very usefull for upstream so much of what we do is, by definition, not upstream-able | 20:36 |
| kwwii | but our theme teams could be working on themes which make it upstream in gnome | 20:37 |
| jcastro | QUESTION: Will there be anymore further development in bringing themes from other sources to the desktop? By that I mean, a program to browse themes on selected websites from a program within Ubuntu. I've seen a program in Feisty that does something similar, but it seemed to not really have options on where to browse, and seemed very buggy. | 20:37 |
| kwwii | so that is an area we need to work on, but the basis is there | 20:37 |
| kwwii | while there are sites with themes available there is, to be quite honest, a lot of hacky themes out there and they often depend on engines which might or might not work | 20:38 |
| kwwii | so while I don't see such an app happening without someone explicitly trying to do it right I do think that you will see more installable thems in universe in the future | 20:39 |
| kwwii | so add/remove programs will offer people the same functionality | 20:39 |
| jcastro | This next one I know you will love. | 20:39 |
| jcastro | RzR> QUESTION: how can we make better integration of some applications when using dark themes ? | 20:39 |
| kwwii | hehe, the slate theme | 20:39 |
| kwwii | to be honest, I think that a lot of apps are not coded properly | 20:40 |
| kwwii | so I think that one needs to include a dark theme as soon as possible and start reporting bugs | 20:40 |
| kwwii | if not enough of those bugs are fixed or they are too critical we will have to revert until such time as those bugts are fixed | 20:40 |
| kwwii | I think that you will see more and more people using a dark theme in the future | 20:41 |
| kwwii | it is one more way for us to set ourselves apart | 20:41 |
| kwwii | and on smaller devices it just looks niftier | 20:41 |
| kwwii | jcastro: next | 20:41 |
| jcastro | < bersace> QUESTION: is there some plan on making Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Edubuntu and Ubuntu artworks consistent ? | 20:42 |
| _MMA_ | I'd also add that many dark themes don't work because of incorrect usage of GTK. Hard-coding color values and such. Best to report those issues upstream. | 20:43 |
| kwwii | that is one way that we can work with upstream :-) | 20:43 |
| kwwii | bersace: no, until now there are no such plans | 20:43 |
| kwwii | bersace: I think that the amount of work would be overwhelming | 20:43 |
| kwwii | and I am not sure if all the communities would want that as well | 20:44 |
| kwwii | although for ubuntu itself to do such would be interesting if we had the manpower | 20:45 |
| kwwii | jcastro: next | 20:45 |
| jcastro | < artir> QUESTION: the new human icon theme will be a evolution of the previous one or a radically new style? | 20:46 |
| kwwii | as an icon theme takes a very long time to create it will be done in phases | 20:47 |
| kwwii | so it will not be radically different but yet totally different in the end :-) | 20:47 |
| kwwii | any theme which lasts longer than a year begins to evolve | 20:48 |
| kwwii | right now the human icon theme is only a few icons anyway | 20:48 |
| kwwii | with the 2D panel icons idea we start to look at icon themes in a new way | 20:48 |
| _MMA_ | QUESTION: lukeen: will there be more themes, icons and especially wallpapers (well in GNOME, KDE has enough i think) preinstalled in future releases? | 20:49 |
| kwwii | that is one thing that I definitely want to do in Intrepid | 20:49 |
| kwwii | the currently available themes are simply outdated | 20:50 |
| kwwii | I think that we could do much better | 20:50 |
| kwwii | people love to click through themes and there are so many already available I see no reason why we should not present the best what is out there | 20:50 |
| ompaul | <james_w> QUESTION: related to lukeen's. Some people really really like the default wallpaper of a specific release, but when they upgrade this is taken away. Is there any plan to ship old versions so they can at least switch back? Is this a CD space issue? | 20:51 |
| kwwii | while I understand that people might get upset when the pic they like goes away it really has to happen or you wouldn't know if you updated or not :-) | 20:52 |
| kwwii | I guess the best answer to that would be to create a theme package with previous versions | 20:53 |
| kwwii | so that people could install whichever they like | 20:53 |
| kwwii | I think that once you set your wallpaper to something different than the default it keeps it after an update so this should only happen once then | 20:54 |
| _MMA_ | QUESTION: Azag: In gnome-look (and similars) there are a loot of themes that are trying to copy to Mac Leopard or Winbug Vista, what do you think, it is a obsession of the GNU/Linux users to imitate other SO? | 20:54 |
| kwwii | I think the people like to have the shiniest new thing | 20:54 |
| kwwii | so when nice looking themes come out they want to have them on linux | 20:54 |
| kwwii | thinking "see, I can show that linux is just as good as X" | 20:55 |
| kwwii | personall, I think it is a waste of time | 20:55 |
| kwwii | personally, that is | 20:55 |
| kwwii | I think that we can push some new ideas through which nobody else has shown before | 20:56 |
| kwwii | so there is no need to copy something that is already old | 20:56 |
| kwwii | more than anything else, we need a strong community to realize something so bold | 20:56 |
| kwwii | there is a lot of work to do :-) | 20:56 |
| kwwii | anyone who wants to check us out, come by #ubuntu-artwork on freenode | 20:57 |
| kwwii | or our wiki on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork | 20:57 |
| kwwii | and don't forget the mailing list http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art | 20:57 |
| kwwii | I guess that wraps things up for me, thanks for joining :-) | 20:58 |
| ompaul | \o/ thanks kwwii \o/ | 20:58 |
| nixternal | smashing job kwwii!! | 20:58 |
| nixternal | letting everyone join up...will start in a couple of minutes | 21:00 |
| nixternal | If you are sticking around for the KDE 5 talk, raise your hand in *-chat \o/! | 21:01 |
| nixternal | yes, we have decided to ditch KDE 4 and go directly to KDE 5 | 21:01 |
| nixternal | come on people, go get your friends...I do not start until there are 330 people in here | 21:03 |
| * ompaul quits ;-) | 21:03 | |
| nixternal | 9 more to go | 21:03 |
| nixternal | nosrednaekim: you ready yet? | 21:03 |
| nosrednaekim | K :) | 21:04 |
| nixternal | HERE WE GO! | 21:04 |
| nixternal | 5 | 21:04 |
| nixternal | 4 | 21:04 |
| nixternal | 3 | 21:04 |
| nixternal | 2 | 21:04 |
| nixternal | 1 | 21:04 |
| nixternal | THE END! | 21:04 |
| nixternal | thanks everyone for coming! | 21:04 |
| nixternal | :) | 21:04 |
| nixternal | Alrighty, lets try this again....if you are here for the KDE 4 talk, give me a "K-MEN!" | 21:04 |
| nixternal | in #ubuntu-classroom-chat that is | 21:05 |
| nosrednaekim | or a "this is Korney" | 21:05 |
| nixternal | oh wow, don't feed um! | 21:05 |
| nixternal | alrighty, let me give you a bit of an intro about myself and what I will lie to you all about today | 21:05 |
| nixternal | if you were in the Kubuntu Development talk, tough, you are going to see the same intro again! :) | 21:05 |
| nixternal | My name is Richard Johnson, and I am a Kubuntu and KDE developer wannabe! | 21:06 |
| nixternal | Here is a brief summary of what I am about to lie to you all about today! | 21:06 |
| nixternal | * Intro about me | 21:06 |
| nixternal | * Intro about Kubuntu | 21:06 |
| nixternal | * Intro about KDE | 21:06 |
| nixternal | * KDE 4 LOVE! | 21:06 |
| nixternal | * Kubuntu + KDE 4 == the perfect dream! | 21:06 |
| === stdin changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Open Week | Information and Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | How to ask questions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Rules | Ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, prefaced with "QUESTION:" |See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/JoiningIn to filter out channel noise | Current Session: "KDE 4" - Richard Johnson | ||
| nixternal | So now, if you placed your tables in the upright position and fastened your belts, go ahead and undo that, as the drinks are making their rounds | 21:07 |
| === nosrednaekim changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Open Week | Information and Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | How to ask questions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Rules | Ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, prefaced with "QUESTION:" |See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/JoiningIn to filter out channel noise | Current Session: "KDE4" - Richard Johnson | ||
| nixternal | LETS GO!!! | 21:07 |
| nixternal | .... | 21:08 |
| nixternal | === About Me === | 21:08 |
| nixternal | * Free software developer and advocate since 1994 | 21:08 |
| nixternal | * Kubuntu developer and documentation writer since 2005 | 21:08 |
| nixternal | * KDE developer and documentation writer since 2005, user since 1996 | 21:08 |
| nixternal | * Debian Maintainer for a couple of packages, KDE based of course | 21:08 |
| nixternal | * Co-Author of the Official Ubuntu Book (Edubuntu chapter - huh?) | 21:08 |
| nixternal | * Go by nixternal on every communication protocol imaginable | 21:08 |
| nixternal | * Email me at nixternal@kubuntu.org | 21:08 |
| nixternal | now I don't expect any of you will subscribe my email address to Microsoft mailing lists (I am still trying to find out who did that a couple of months back to me!) | 21:09 |
| nixternal | ..... | 21:09 |
| nixternal | === About Kubuntu === | 21:09 |
| nixternal | I could paste my 5 lines, or I could put it this way...It is the greatest thing since sliced bread! | 21:09 |
| nixternal | OK, I will paste it! | 21:09 |
| nixternal | * Official project of the Ubuntu GNU/Linux distribution | 21:09 |
| nixternal | * We use the same exact base system as Ubuntu, we just use KDE instead | 21:09 |
| nixternal | * It is pronounced koo-BOON-too | 21:09 |
| nixternal | * First released in 2005 with the Hoary Hedgehog (5.04) version | 21:10 |
| nixternal | * http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/591 - The post that started it all, by some guy named Jonathan Riddell | 21:10 |
| nixternal | Riddell: say hi this time! | 21:10 |
| nixternal | it didn't work Tuesday, but I am hoping the Kubuntu robot is working today | 21:10 |
| nixternal | OK, who booted Riddell up in Vista? He is sluggish today! | 21:10 |
| nixternal | ..... | 21:11 |
| nixternal | === About KDE === | 21:11 |
| nixternal | If you don't know what KDE is yet, boy are you missing out on life :p | 21:11 |
| nixternal | * Free software project | 21:11 |
| nixternal | * Desktop Environment, Office Suite, Development Framework, and more... | 21:11 |
| nixternal | * Announced in 1996, release 1.0 in 1998 | 21:11 |
| nixternal | * Stable release version is 3.5.9, development version is 4.0.3 (4.0.4 next week!) | 21:11 |
| nixternal | * http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.development.apps/msg/cb4b2d67ffc3ffce - The email that started it all, by some other guy named Matthias Ettrich | 21:11 |
| Riddell | hi! | 21:12 |
| nixternal | whoa, the robot is working :) | 21:12 |
| nixternal | ..... | 21:12 |
| nixternal | Lets get right into some KDE love, how about a little history (I failed history twice in school, so this isn't any different) | 21:13 |
| nixternal | ..... | 21:13 |
| nixternal | == History == | 21:13 |
| nixternal | * 1998 - KDE 1.0 (21 members make up the core team) | 21:13 |
| nixternal | * 2000 - KDE 2.0 | 21:13 |
| nixternal | * 2002 - KDE 3.0 | 21:13 |
| nixternal | * 2005 - KDE 3.5 (Currently 3.5.9) | 21:13 |
| nixternal | * 2008 - KDE 4.0 (Currently 4.0.3) | 21:13 |
| nixternal | * July 29, 2008 - KDE 4.1 (Happy birthday to me!) | 21:13 |
| nixternal | Now the statistics, most come from researching Google, and we know Google is the global authority on truth! | 21:14 |
| nixternal | == Statistics == | 21:14 |
| nixternal | * 1,800+ SVN Accounts | 21:14 |
| nixternal | * More than 2,800 weekly commits | 21:14 |
| nixternal | * Over 5 million lines of code | 21:14 |
| nixternal | * Available in 65+ languages | 21:14 |
| nixternal | lets get right into the meat and tators here, you want to know about the desktop...here is everything you didn't want to know :) | 21:15 |
| nixternal | ..... | 21:15 |
| nixternal | == Desktop == | 21:15 |
| nixternal | I am going to briefly cover the new KDE 4 desktop. The topics I will cover include: | 21:15 |
| nixternal | * Beauty | 21:15 |
| nixternal | * Usability | 21:15 |
| nixternal | * Portability | 21:15 |
| nixternal | * Functionality | 21:15 |
| nixternal | 21:15 | |
| nixternal | === Beauty === | 21:15 |
| nixternal | How man think what you have seen thus far on the intertubes about KDE 4 (screenshots and such), display a thing of beauty? raise your ands in chat \o/ | 21:16 |
| nixternal | s/man/many! | 21:16 |
| nixternal | I can speel, I promise | 21:16 |
| nixternal | wow, just one! | 21:16 |
| nixternal | thanks vorian! you are a trooper! | 21:16 |
| nixternal | ahh, now everyone kicks in :) | 21:16 |
| nixternal | .... | 21:17 |
| nixternal | Well, he is what makes KDE 4 so beautiful! | 21:17 |
| nixternal | * KDE Window Manager (KWin) | 21:17 |
| nixternal | * Plasma | 21:17 |
| nixternal | * Oxygen | 21:17 |
| nixternal | * Kenneth Wimer - kwwii | 21:17 |
| nixternal | he is a work of art, but my god he is beautiful! | 21:17 |
| nixternal | err, I mean his artwork is beautiful | 21:18 |
| nixternal | I will give a brief intro into these 3 really quick | 21:18 |
| nixternal | ==== KWin ==== | 21:18 |
| nixternal | KWin is not just another Window Manager for X. KWin has gone through amazing transformations for KDE 4 and now features: | 21:18 |
| nixternal | * Compositing support and management | 21:18 |
| nixternal | * Similar graphical effects to that of Compiz | 21:18 |
| nixternal | * Functions even when there is no system support | 21:18 |
| nixternal | * Includes a desktop grid, window switcher, shadowing, wobbly windows, snowflakes, and more... | 21:18 |
| nixternal | man I can type fast! I type so fast irssi asks me to press Ctrl+k | 21:18 |
| nixternal | Yes, KWin will do wobbly windows now...which means less work will get done by those who use it because they love to watch it...umm...wobble | 21:19 |
| nixternal | ==== Plasma ==== | 21:19 |
| nixternal | NOTE: Not to be confused with blood or lasers | 21:20 |
| nixternal | This is the part of the KDE 4 desktop that everyone has been seeing, and in most instances drooling over. | 21:20 |
| nixternal | The KDE of yesterday included a desktop that was made up of the KDesktop, Kicker, SuperKaramba and more. | 21:20 |
| nixternal | Today the KDE desktop is made up of just one appliance, Plasma. | 21:20 |
| nixternal | Here are just a few features of Plasma today: | 21:20 |
| nixternal | * Unified workspace that embodies innovation, beauty, and usability | 21:20 |
| nixternal | * Replaces KDesktop, Kicker, SuperKaramba, and more... | 21:20 |
| nixternal | * Consists of containments, data engines, runners, plasmoids, and more... | 21:20 |
| nixternal | * 4.1 with WebKit will include Mac Dashboard widget support | 21:20 |
| nixternal | * 4.1 will include support for SuperKaramba widgets | 21:20 |
| nixternal | * The language bindings for writing Plasmoids continues to grow | 21:20 |
| nixternal | One of the complaints we have been seeing is that there aren't many plasmoids available. | 21:21 |
| nixternal | Well with KDE 4.1 and WebKit, there will be thousands of widgets available for your desktop. | 21:21 |
| nixternal | ==== Oxygen ==== | 21:21 |
| nixternal | Tell me that KDE isn't promoting environmentally safe computing?!?! we are providing you with oxygen!! | 21:22 |
| nixternal | breathe.... | 21:22 |
| nixternal | When people hear about KDE 4 and Oxygen, one thing comes to mind: super sexy icons! | 21:22 |
| nixternal | Well, Oxygen is more than just icons, Oxygen is: | 21:22 |
| nixternal | * Icons (duh we just said that!) | 21:22 |
| nixternal | * Widget and window styling | 21:22 |
| nixternal | * Mouse cursors (makes using the mouse fun again!) | 21:22 |
| nixternal | * Audio theme (crank up those speakers and let everyone hear the love!) | 21:22 |
| nixternal | ..... | 21:22 |
| nixternal | That concludes the beauty, make way for usability! | 21:23 |
| nixternal | ..... | 21:23 |
| nixternal | KDE's goal has always been to make an easy-to-use computing environment. | 21:23 |
| nixternal | With KDE 4, this hasn't changed. KDE worked closely with the Open Usability project (http://openusability.org). | 21:23 |
| nixternal | One of the main goals for KDE 4 was to identify ideas that were lacking and work hard to make these ideas a reality. | 21:23 |
| nixternal | The research-driven development behind KDE 4 brought modern and extensive human interface guidelines | 21:23 |
| nixternal | These new guidelines provide the developers something to aim for, and seeing some of the updated applications, they aimed high and won! | 21:23 |
| nixternal | Why does this really matter? Easy, usable software makes the end user happy! | 21:23 |
| nixternal | ..... | 21:24 |
| nixternal | Remember, KDE 4.0.x is not the KDE 4 we talked about....just wait until 4.1 - usability! usability! usability! | 21:24 |
| nixternal | ..... | 21:24 |
| nixternal | === Portability === | 21:25 |
| nixternal | I use Konqueror, Kate, Konsole, and more on my Windows and Mac desktops! | 21:25 |
| nixternal | WHAT?!?!?! | 21:25 |
| nixternal | One of the goals of KDE 4 was to make it portable, and making it portable is what they are doing, BIG TIME! | 21:25 |
| nixternal | With the KDE 4 libraries you can easily write a single application for multiple platforms! | 21:25 |
| nixternal | If you can put Linux on it, you can put KDE 4 on it! My toaster runs KDE 4!!! | 21:26 |
| nixternal | nothing like a plasmoid with a bit of jam spread! | 21:26 |
| nixternal | As we sit here in IRC, totally awake I hope, KDE 4 has the following platform support: | 21:26 |
| * nosrednaekim blinks | 21:26 | |
| nixternal | * Linux - libraries, backends, applications, and workspace - all in place | 21:27 |
| nixternal | * Solaris - libraries, backends, applications, and workspace - all in place | 21:27 |
| nixternal | * BSD - libraries, backends, applications, and workspace - all in place | 21:27 |
| nixternal | * *nix - libraries and backends in place, applications and workspace in development | 21:27 |
| nixternal | * Windows - libraries in place, backends and applications in development, workspace nonexistant | 21:27 |
| nixternal | * Mac OS - libraries in place, backends and applications in development, workspace nonexistant | 21:27 |
| nixternal | whew, that was a lot to type! | 21:27 |
| nixternal | For those of you wanting to see more about KDE 4 and Windows, check out http://windows.kde.org | 21:27 |
| nixternal | ..... | 21:28 |
| nixternal | === Functionality === | 21:28 |
| nixternal | What is going to make KDE 4 so functional? | 21:28 |
| nixternal | There are so many new technologies and platforms included with KDE 4 that my head spins just thinking about them. | 21:28 |
| nixternal | The ones I will briefly cover include: | 21:28 |
| nixternal | * Solid | 21:29 |
| nixternal | * Sonnet | 21:29 |
| nixternal | * NEPOMUK | 21:29 |
| nixternal | * Strigi | 21:29 |
| nixternal | * Phonon | 21:29 |
| nixternal | * Akonadi | 21:29 |
| nixternal | 21:29 | |
| nixternal | ==== Solid ==== | 21:29 |
| nixternal | Listen up developers! | 21:29 |
| nixternal | Solid is a device integration framework aimed at developers. | 21:29 |
| nixternal | Solid does not manage your hardware, but it makes managing your hardware through a single API possible. | 21:29 |
| nixternal | Current backends for Solid include: | 21:30 |
| nixternal | * HAL | 21:30 |
| nixternal | * Networkmanager (or Networkmangler if you have problems with it) | 21:30 |
| nixternal | * BlueZ | 21:30 |
| nixternal | If you are interested in utilizing Solid in your applications, I recommend that you review http://solid.kde.org | 21:30 |
| nixternal | 21:30 | |
| nixternal | ==== Sonnet ==== | 21:30 |
| nixternal | Even though i speak English only, and speak it badly, Sonnet totally rocks in some of its functions! | 21:31 |
| nixternal | Sonnet is a multilingual spell check application. | 21:31 |
| nixternal | Another spell check application you are asking? Heck no, this goes above and beyond any other spell checker I have experienced. | 21:31 |
| nixternal | So what makes it stand out? | 21:31 |
| nixternal | * Automatic language detection - the language you are typing in, can be recognized by Sonnet within the first 20 characters typed | 21:32 |
| nixternal | * Performance! - it is fast | 21:32 |
| nixternal | * Various improvements in different languages | 21:32 |
| nixternal | * Unlike KSpell2 which consisted of 7 components and had a complicated API, Sonnet has 1 component | 21:32 |
| nixternal | * Provides the ability to have a primary and secondary dictionary | 21:32 |
| nixternal | a secondary dictionary could be something like...a dictionary filled with your 1337 AOL speaking skillz, or if you are a Doctor, your medical terms, and so on.... | 21:32 |
| nixternal | 21:33 | |
| nixternal | ==== NEPOMUK ==== | 21:33 |
| nixternal | Not only does it have a weird name, but what it stands for is even weirder :) | 21:33 |
| nixternal | Networked Environment for Personalize, Ontology-based Management of Unified Knowledge | 21:33 |
| nixternal | YEAH! Put that in your pipe and smoke it! | 21:33 |
| nixternal | I think I will stick with NEPOMUK, that is way to many words to remember! | 21:33 |
| nixternal | So what exactly is this alien of an application? (Kubuntu - Linux for everyone, unlike Ubuntu who only covers humans...Kubuntu loves the aliens too!) | 21:34 |
| nixternal | First off, NEPOMUK isn't an application, it is an open-source specification. | 21:34 |
| nixternal | Huh? | 21:34 |
| nixternal | Ya, same exact thoughts here, but it is cool, or should I say KOOL?!?! (ya, I know all of you just went, "OMG! did he really just put a K in there, my what a loser!") | 21:34 |
| nixternal | NEPOMUK is a specification that is concerned with the development of the Social Semantic Desktop. | 21:34 |
| nixternal | Social Sem..WHAT? | 21:34 |
| nixternal | * Social - of or relating to human society, the interaction of the individual and the group (m-w.com) | 21:35 |
| nixternal | * Semantic - of or relating to meaning in language (m-w.com) | 21:35 |
| nixternal | * Desktop - I hope you know what this is! | 21:35 |
| nixternal | OK, so what does it really mean? After breaking down each word, NEPOMUK brings them together to provide your computer the needs in order to more easily share data between various applications and tasks. | 21:35 |
| nixternal | and sharing can be taken further! | 21:35 |
| nixternal | Maybe http://nepomuk.kde.org can help you understand NEPOMUK a bit better. | 21:35 |
| nixternal | 21:35 | |
| nixternal | ==== Strigi ==== | 21:35 |
| nixternal | Strigi is a fast and light-weight desktop-independent search daemon. | 21:36 |
| nixternal | In KDE 4, Strigi is the core component of the semantic desktop. | 21:36 |
| nixternal | Strigi indexes just about anything! | 21:36 |
| nixternal | If you were disappointed with Strigi in KDE 3, well don't worry, it is way better, far more stable, and not as agressive in KDE 4. | 21:36 |
| nixternal | unless of course you are on battery, right fdoving? :) | 21:36 |
| nixternal | 21:36 | |
| nixternal | ==== Phonon ==== | 21:36 |
| nixternal | Phonon is a cross platform multimedia API, aimed at developers. Phonon is NOT a multimedia framework, but it does interface with existing frameworks. | 21:36 |
| nixternal | Some of the features and benefits of Phonon include: | 21:36 |
| nixternal | * Pluggable backends - Gstreamer, Xine, and more... | 21:37 |
| nixternal | * Easily switch backends on the fly | 21:37 |
| nixternal | * Included in Qt 4.4! | 21:37 |
| nixternal | * Provides a great control of your accessories in combination with Solid | 21:37 |
| nixternal | * A central place for audio and video related configurations | 21:37 |
| nixternal | * Automatic device selection | 21:37 |
| nixternal | The last bullet point, automatic device selection, is very cool. | 21:37 |
| nixternal | Phonon will act on a signal from Solid and automatically make use of the accessory/device where requested. | 21:37 |
| nixternal | An example of this would be when you plug in a USB headset, your VoIP application would automatically switch from using the internal soundcard to the headset so you can start chatting away with granny! | 21:37 |
| nixternal | More information on Phonon can be found at http://phonon.kde.org | 21:38 |
| nixternal | 21:38 | |
| nixternal | ==== Akonadi ==== | 21:38 |
| nixternal | Akonadi used to be the new Personal Information Management (PIM) framework for KDE, but just recently that has all changed. | 21:38 |
| nixternal | The developers have pulled out all of the KDE essentials out of the framework, allowing other systems to easily incorporate it into their applications without having to depend on the KDE libraries. Cool! | 21:38 |
| nixternal | Akonadi's goal is to provide a single extensible data storage solution for PIM applications. | 21:38 |
| nixternal | Akonadi will also include search, a library/cache, as well as notification of data changes. | 21:38 |
| nixternal | 21:38 | |
| nixternal | That concludes KDE 4 - a super brief intro....so what does this have to do with Ubuntu or Kubuntu? | 21:39 |
| nixternal | 21:39 | |
| nixternal | Well, to be honest, the future of Kubuntu and KDE 4 is still open. | 21:39 |
| nixternal | Kubuntu is definitely on the right track and luckily got involved with the KDE 4 development process over a year ago. | 21:39 |
| nixternal | Many people didn't like the decision to drop LTS for our 8.04 release, and either did many of the developers to be honest. | 21:40 |
| nixternal | The reasons behind the non-LTS decision related to: | 21:40 |
| nixternal | * Kubuntu is a 2nd class citizen | 21:40 |
| nixternal | HAH! I GOT YOU! | 21:40 |
| nixternal | so don't ask about that when the Q&A starts :p | 21:40 |
| nixternal | The real reasons are: | 21:40 |
| nixternal | * Unknown timeframe for the continued support for KDE 3.5 by the KDE community | 21:40 |
| nixternal | * KDE 4.0 wouldn't be stable enough for a LTS release | 21:41 |
| nixternal | * Kubuntu didn't have the support contracts in order to justify continuing on a LTS track at this time | 21:41 |
| nixternal | Another question we see is, "Will 8.10 be a LTS release since it will include KDE 4.1?" The answer is no. If we were to do LTS, then that would mean every other project within Ubuntu would have to do the same, as we rely on the same base. | 21:41 |
| nixternal | Anyways, back to KDE 4 lovin'! | 21:41 |
| nixternal | and Kubuntu lovin! | 21:41 |
| nixternal | With UDS coming up, all of the KDE 4 issues involving Kubuntu haven't been decided upon. We will know more after UDS of course. | 21:41 |
| nixternal | A few things we are looking into at this time include: | 21:42 |
| nixternal | * A personal Gulfstream for Kubuntu developers | 21:42 |
| nixternal | * Moving KDE 4 into main, and moving KDE 3 into universe | 21:42 |
| nixternal | * Working with upstream and other distributions to create a unified migration utility from KDE 3 to KDE 4 | 21:42 |
| nixternal | * Converting our Qt3 applications to Qt4 | 21:42 |
| nixternal | * What kind of changes Kubuntu will make in order to stand out from the crowd | 21:42 |
| nixternal | This is where YOU, the user or the developer come in! | 21:43 |
| nixternal | or the user and the developer in you :) | 21:43 |
| nixternal | We need all of YOU, and I mean those who don't even use KDE or Kubuntu, to give us a try and help mold our future. | 21:43 |
| nixternal | What we will need is this: | 21:43 |
| nixternal | * A Gulfstream | 21:43 |
| nixternal | * Bug reporters and triagers | 21:43 |
| nixternal | * Documentation writers (a whole army would be nice! Check back on Friday @ 21:00 UTC for my documentation talk here at Open Week) | 21:43 |
| nixternal | * Developers! Developers! Developers! (I just got up and did the monkey dance too!) | 21:44 |
| nixternal | but more importantly! | 21:44 |
| nixternal | * Community! Community! Community! (oh man, I think I just broke my arm!) | 21:44 |
| nixternal | Remember, what you are seeing right now is KDE 4.0, the developers release so-to-speak. 4.1 will be out in a few more months which will mean stability, usability, and functionality for all. | 21:44 |
| nixternal | If you have been looking for a project to get involved with, Kubuntu and KDE 4 is that project. | 21:44 |
| nixternal | Come join us and be a part of the future! | 21:44 |
| nixternal | 21:44 | |
| nixternal | and now for the part you all have been waiting for!!! | 21:45 |
| nixternal | 21:45 | |
| nixternal | = Conclusion = | 21:45 |
| nixternal | I would like to thank each and every one of you for attending this meeting. | 21:45 |
| nixternal | I hope it wasn't to boring for you and that you are now ready to explode with questions, comments, and ideas. | 21:45 |
| nixternal | I ask that you provide your question, comments, or ideas in accordance to the rules set forth in the discussion channel for the Open Week talks. | 21:45 |
| nixternal | Thanks again and if you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask, and comments and ideas can be fired my way as well. | 21:45 |
| nixternal | 21:45 | |
| nixternal | nosrednaekim: start with the questions!!! | 21:45 |
| nosrednaekim | <greg-g> NOTAQUESTION: I have an adult sized tricycle for you nixternal, no gulfstream though? | 21:46 |
| nixternal | greg-g: is that the same one you rode to Penguicon? I will take it! | 21:46 |
| nosrednaekim | <gkatsev> QUESTION: should I wait till 4.1 to try it out, or is it safe to try it out now? | 21:46 |
| * nixternal pushes the seat belt button on greg-g's Chrome bag | 21:46 | |
| nixternal | gkatsev: I think it is safe for you to try out...the nice thing is, you can run it side-by-side your stable setup to play with | 21:47 |
| nosrednaekim | <SzArAk> QUESTION: is sonnet another abstraction layer for dictionaries? Is it a kind of API for between programs and ispell/aspell whatever, or is it independent from things like aspell? | 21:47 |
| nixternal | I would enjoy people who are unsure about it to give it a shot, how else are we going to perfect it | 21:47 |
| nosrednaekim | oops.. sorry :) | 21:47 |
| nixternal | SzArAk: as it stands, I am not 100% sure...I think it is independent, but at the same time, it wouldn't make sense to rewrite entire dictionaries...I will look into that and get more info for you or anyone else interested | 21:48 |
| nosrednaekim | <davidmac> QUESTION: What is the future of compiz + KDE on kubuntu? Seems there is some overlap. | 21:49 |
| nixternal | davidmac: as KDE 4.1 comes out with all of the compositing glory it has in trunk, I think the need for Compiz and KDE 4 will disappear. But Compiz and KDE 3.5 is still something many will use...now to get Compiz developers to fix all of the bugs on their KDE side of things | 21:50 |
| nosrednaekim | <d33d> QUESTION: Where can I find more information about submitting bugs or how to (because I'm new to submitting bugs) for Kubuntu? | 21:50 |
| nixternal | s/Compiz and KDE 4/KDE 4 with Compiz/ | 21:50 |
| nosrednaekim | nixternal: If i'm not giving you enough time... yell at me :) | 21:51 |
| nixternal | d33d: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HelpingWithBugs | 21:51 |
| nixternal | nosrednaekim: perfect, keep on rocking! | 21:51 |
| nosrednaekim | <Daisuke_Ido> QUESTION: How much did the Steve Ballmer Enthusiasm Correspondence Course cost? | 21:51 |
| nixternal | $13 | 21:52 |
| nixternal | oh wait | 21:52 |
| nixternal | $0.99 - got the audio version on iTunes :p | 21:52 |
| nosrednaekim | <ligemeget> QUESTION: Will we have to wait for Intrepid in order to get Amarok v.2? | 21:52 |
| nixternal | ligemeget: my magic 8 ball says 'No' - apachelogger_ will have a package for Hardy users when it is ready :) | 21:53 |
| nixternal | ligemeget: we will put up a hardy ppa with kde4 updates, including amarok | 21:53 |
| nixternal | so hardy users can continue loving KDE 4 updates :) | 21:53 |
| nosrednaekim | it all depends on how good/fast daSkreech is :) | 21:53 |
| nixternal | haha | 21:53 |
| nosrednaekim | <ligemeget> QUESTION: Does Kubuntu documentation use the same wiki as Ubuntu documentation (help.ubuntu.com)? | 21:53 |
| nixternal | ligemeget: yes - however there are some docs that could be written to include the Kubuntu side of things - and of course it is open for everyone to edit :) | 21:54 |
| nixternal | Riddell: note we should look at a help.kubuntu.org redirect like we have with wiki.kubuntu.org? | 21:55 |
| nosrednaekim | <jfeby> QUESTION: Will 4.1 be available for Hardy? Will it be in backports, or will it be in the PPA launchpad repos like 4 was for Gutsy? | 21:55 |
| nixternal | jfeby: PPA - that way we don't have to go through all of the troubles of uploading to an LTS base that Ubuntu also uses, nor do we have to file all of the proper paperwork :) | 21:55 |
| nosrednaekim | <Lardarse> QUESTION: where did the name nixternal come from? | 21:55 |
| nixternal | Lardarse: back in 1974, when I was born, my mom and dad looked at me and said... | 21:56 |
| nixternal | "This boy is UNIX, and he is that forever" | 21:56 |
| nixternal | or | 21:56 |
| nixternal | "My god our son is ugly, is he gone (nixed) forever (eternal)?" | 21:56 |
| nixternal | NIX from UNIX, and Ternal from Eternal :) | 21:57 |
| nosrednaekim | <davidmac> QUESTION: Are the python kde libraries time with releases? Or is that totally separate project with its own timeline. | 21:57 |
| nixternal | davidmac: well it is in kdesvn, but I believe it is seperate from the rest of KDE to an extent | 21:58 |
| nixternal | I almost answered that as if it were PyQt | 21:58 |
| jcastro | time for one more question | 21:58 |
| Riddell | it's in kdebindings, released with the rest of KDE | 21:58 |
| nixternal | ok | 21:58 |
| nosrednaekim | Azag: QUESTION: Do you think that 2 grapich librares (GTK and QT) it is bad for Free Software? I mean, very good aplications like K3B and Amarok dont work at 100% in GTK (gnome or xfce) and GTK programs dont run at 100% in QT. It is not better to have one library? | 21:58 |
| nixternal | oh ya, derr, you would think I would know that since I worked ont hat package | 21:58 |
| nosrednaekim | ok jcastro | 21:58 |
| nixternal | Azag: wow, tough one...I say it isn't, as it gives all of us a choice, but I do understand those who take the side of it being an issue with the free software adoption | 21:59 |
| nixternal | we love choice, but not many people understand that choice...what I love is we have 2 really amazing platforms for you to pick from and learn to love either one | 21:59 |
| nixternal | 22:00 | |
| nixternal | thanks again everyone for showing up, staying awake, and asking questions...I will be in #kubuntu-devel to field even more if you would like | 22:00 |
| nixternal | ROCK ON EVERYONE! | 22:00 |
| === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Open Week | Information and Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | How to ask questions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Rules | Ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, prefaced with "QUESTION:" |See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/JoiningIn to filter out channel noise | Current session: "Producing Podcasts in Ubuntu" - Alan Pope | ||
| Riddell | join us in #kubuntu-devel if you want to help develop Kubuntu | 22:01 |
| jcastro | take it away popey! | 22:01 |
| popey | uhoh | 22:02 |
| popey | A challenge to those of you in #ubuntu-classroom-chat! | 22:02 |
| popey | Put me off, distract me (in -chat, not here ;) ), try to ensure I _don't_ get to the end of the material I have prepared. | 22:02 |
| popey | Ask questions, as many as you can think of, we'll take them as soon as we can, to make this more vibrant. | 22:03 |
| popey | It's late here in the UK, I've had Fajitas and Beer, and I'm ready for the challenge! Bring it on! | 22:03 |
| popey | Here's the core messages I want to get over | 22:03 |
| popey | 1. It's possible to create, host and manage a (good) podcast using Ubuntu. | 22:03 |
| popey | 2. It's mostly not about the software, it's more about the enthusiasm, infrastructure, process and community, community, community, community (C) Jono Bacon | 22:03 |
| popey | 3. The software is free, nothing payware or proprietary (if you avoid skype ;] ) | 22:04 |
| popey | 3a. Only cost is hardware you may (optionally) buy, and the time you spend doing it | 22:04 |
| popey | Schedule - here's what we plan to cover - see if you can stop me! | 22:04 |
| popey | * Introduction to the session | 22:05 |
| popey | * Introduction to us (who we are, why we do this) | 22:05 |
| popey | * Introduction to podcasting | 22:05 |
| popey | * Communication within the team | 22:05 |
| popey | * Preparation for an episode | 22:05 |
| popey | * Recording the episode | 22:05 |
| popey | * Hardware & Software involved | 22:05 |
| popey | * Post production | 22:05 |
| popey | * Editing, encoding | 22:05 |
| popey | * Publishing | 22:05 |
| popey | * Mirroring | 22:05 |
| popey | Is anyone thinking or has considered _ever_ producing a podcast? | 22:05 |
| popey | there's room for lots of podcasts! | 22:06 |
| popey | think how many there are about windows or mac osx | 22:06 |
| popey | there's not NEARLY enough about Linux Ubuntu | 22:06 |
| popey | ok.. | 22:06 |
| popey | * Introduction to us | 22:07 |
| popey | I'm Alan Pope (popey), also here may be Tony Whitmore (tonytiger), Dave Murphy (Schwuk), Ciemon (pronounced 'Simon') Dunville (CieD) and Dave (pronounced 'Oi! Get closer to the microphone!') Walker (Daviey) | 22:07 |
| popey | unfortunately tony can't be with us, he's busy locked up in a hotel room with a laptop | 22:07 |
| popey | We decided there was room in the market for a fixed duration, regularly released, family-friendly, Ubuntu CoC compliant podcast, so we made one. | 22:08 |
| popey | All of this session is generated based on _our_ experience of podcasting, listening to other podcasts, and common sense. | 22:08 |
| popey | None of it should be taken as raw facts, just our opinion, other people do things quite differently, very successfully, this way works for _us_. | 22:08 |
| popey | Some of what we have done involves some scripts which I think we will tidy up and make available under a nice license. | 22:08 |
| popey | thats right isnt it Daviey ? | 22:08 |
| Daviey | yes! | 22:08 |
| popey | yay! | 22:08 |
| popey | * Introduction to podcasting | 22:08 |
| popey | In it's simplest form a podcast is a regular audio package delivered over http/ftp as an enclosure within an RSS feed. | 22:09 |
| popey | Anyone can do it. All you need is a microphone, computer, and a way of hosting ( more on this later ) | 22:09 |
| popey | RSS is vital. It's no good just putting an audio file on a site and asking visitors to play/download it, although many do use this approach. | 22:09 |
| popey | It's important to make it as easy as possible for people to get at the audio files you create. | 22:09 |
| popey | This means supporting RSS and further to that having separate RSS feeds for different file formats (if you choose to support multiple file formats) | 22:09 |
| popey | iTunes _is_ a big deal. Whilst it doesn't run on Linux, fact is that Windows is ~95% of the population and if Windows users form part of the target market, you should make it easy for them. | 22:10 |
| popey | whilst i appreciate apple and itunes are considered evil, they represent a significant chunk of people | 22:10 |
| popey | Other podcast download clients are available of course - ipodder, hpodder, juice receiver, bashpodder, rhythmbox, banshee etc | 22:10 |
| popey | :) | 22:10 |
| popey | Personally I use hpodder, what do you use? | 22:10 |
| popey | I used to use ipodder, then juice, then finally hpodder | 22:12 |
| popey | works for me | 22:12 |
| popey | everyone has their own choice, which is great | 22:12 |
| popey | becauase so long as you use standards like RSS, you're fine, it shouldnt matter what your "consumers" use | 22:12 |
| popey | yay choice! | 22:12 |
| popey | ok, moving on.. | 22:12 |
| popey | Some podcasters will record all sat in the same room (like LUGRadio podcast), some do theirs via Skype (like Freshubuntu podcast). | 22:12 |
| popey | neither are doing it wrong, they both produce popular podcasts | 22:13 |
| popey | it's important to note there is no _right_ way to do it | 22:13 |
| popey | so long as you produce good content that is engaging, it doesnt matter | 22:13 |
| popey | We all sit in one room, but sometimes record stuff separately and mix it in later. see Episode 1 (FOSDEM segment) for example | 22:13 |
| popey | Sometimes we take phone calls during the show - see Episode 4 (Mark Shuttleworth interview) for example | 22:13 |
| popey | Now the absultely most vital thing of all! | 22:14 |
| popey | I can't stress this enough! | 22:14 |
| Daviey | CAKE | 22:14 |
| popey | * Communication is important both between members of the team, and between the team and non-team members (listeners and contributors) | 22:14 |
| popey | hah | 22:14 |
| popey | We talk to each other electronically pretty much every day | 22:14 |
| popey | We have an email address which forwards to all members of the podcast team. | 22:14 |
| popey | you could use a gmail account or if you have your own hosting, set up a single address which forwards to your team | 22:15 |
| popey | this is essential to keep everyone in the loop | 22:15 |
| popey | If we mail anyone we generally cc: the podcast email address so everyone is kept in the loop. | 22:15 |
| popey | and if for some reason anyone cant make it, the podcast still gets made | 22:15 |
| popey | shall we take some questions? | 22:16 |
| popey | Daviey: any questions? | 22:16 |
| popey | bet he went off for a cigarette | 22:16 |
| * popey pokes Daviey in the face with a pair of scissors | 22:16 | |
| Daviey | Lardarse> QUESTION: relating to core message #2: Are there any viable | 22:16 |
| Daviey | free VoIP solutions that work on Ubuntu? | 22:16 |
| Daviey | You caught me offguard | 22:17 |
| popey | heh | 22:17 |
| popey | offguard = outside? | 22:17 |
| popey | yes, Lardarse ! | 22:17 |
| popey | Daviey: tell him how we do it | 22:17 |
| popey | *poke* *poke* | 22:17 |
| Daviey | Well, _we_ do it one way.. Currently we are using a SIP hardphone connected to an audio mixer that connects to the rest of the loop | 22:18 |
| popey | you have an asterisk server dont you? | 22:18 |
| Daviey | so we can all hear the call through our headphones, and all use our standard mics | 22:18 |
| popey | (more about mics later) | 22:18 |
| Daviey | Yeah, the SIP phone connects to an asterisk server, to dial normal numbers | 22:18 |
| popey | but we could use a desktop sip client like ekiga? | 22:19 |
| Daviey | however, there isn't a reason you couldn't use gizmo/ekiga et al | 22:19 |
| popey | in theory? | 22:19 |
| popey | cool | 22:19 |
| popey | next question? | 22:19 |
| popey | or shall we move on? | 22:20 |
| Daviey | < davidmac> QUESTION: What is a "Ubuntu CoC compliant podcast"? | 22:20 |
| popey | Code of Conduct | 22:20 |
| popey | we figured it was important to make sure we dont do anything that breaches the code of conduct that half of us have signed | 22:20 |
| popey | :) | 22:20 |
| popey | moving on... | 22:20 |
| popey | this is a vital section | 22:21 |
| popey | no, not cake! | 22:21 |
| popey | * Preparation for the episode | 22:21 |
| popey | We have a private wiki (only accessible by members of the podcast 'team' - in order to have some level of secrecy of content) | 22:21 |
| Daviey | < leftyfb> QUESTION: last I checked, Ekiga doesn't do conferencing. Only 1 to 1 communication. Are there any "free" | 22:21 |
| Daviey | apps for voip conferencing? Like skype. | 22:21 |
| popey | I'll come back to that Daviey | 22:21 |
| popey | We create a new page for each episode eg. S01E05 and paste in anything we didn't get time to do on the previous episode. | 22:21 |
| popey | During the two weeks between episodes we populate the wiki with ideas etc. | 22:21 |
| popey | We discuss on irc and via email - very regularly. | 22:21 |
| popey | Between the two recordings we populate the wiki page so it has the basic framework of the content of the show - no script, just bullet points | 22:21 |
| popey | The day before the date scheduled for recording, we roughly set the running order, and the order of recording, and contact any interviewees to confirm times | 22:22 |
| popey | Also on the day before, we put the contents of the wiki into a gobby document, leading up to and during the podcast we collaboratively edit the schedule as we go in gobby | 22:22 |
| popey | gobby rocks | 22:22 |
| * popey hugs pkern | 22:22 | |
| popey | (We all have laptops open editing the gobby doc during recording) | 22:22 |
| popey | ok, one more short section then back to the questions | 22:22 |
| popey | * Hardware and software | 22:22 |
| popey | Simplest set up would be a cheap microphone (or laptop with embedded mic) and audacity. Hit record, speak, press stop. | 22:23 |
| popey | many podcasts are made like this | 22:23 |
| popey | lottalinuxlinks guy does his in the car on the way to work! | 22:23 |
| popey | More advanced: multiple microphones, stands, simple mixer (like Alan's) | 22:23 |
| popey | (I have a simple mackie 2 channel mixer, which has 2 xlr inputs for "proper" microphones) | 22:23 |
| popey | Even more advanced: More microphones (one per speaker), larger mixer. Could still record onto laptop/PC (probably worth looking at Ubuntu Studio & low latency kernels) | 22:24 |
| popey | to a recording device (like a Zoom H4 or similar). | 22:24 |
| popey | (this is what we do) | 22:24 |
| popey | Each speaker on our podcast has a Shure SM58 on a mic stand, plugged into a mixer, we have a headphone monitor too, so we can all hear how we sound | 22:24 |
| popey | this is potentially massive over kill | 22:24 |
| popey | it does result in quite a good sound, if we get the audio right (which we dont always) but costs money | 22:25 |
| popey | Yet further advanced: Telephone balance unit, multi-channel interface between mixer and PC (firewire or USB). Allows for more complex remixing after the recording session. | 22:25 |
| popey | We dont do that | 22:25 |
| popey | :) | 22:25 |
| popey | That's for the twit.tv setups, not for the two-bit podcasts like ours | 22:25 |
| popey | ok, questions, Daviey wakey wakey | 22:26 |
| CieD | <davidmac> QUESTION: What bit rate do you average when recording, what specs like sampling rate, etc? | 22:26 |
| popey | good question | 22:26 |
| popey | no clue | 22:26 |
| CieD | We have submission guidlines on the site | 22:26 |
| popey | download an episode and have a look at the files to find out :) | 22:26 |
| CieD | http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/audio-submission-guidelines/ | 22:26 |
| popey | tony does most of the encoding | 22:26 |
| popey | and he has a funky script which does the encoding | 22:27 |
| Daviey | which he has FOSS'd | 22:27 |
| popey | if i remember correctly the high quality ones are stereo | 22:27 |
| CieD | 44.1KHz stereo WAV PCM | 22:27 |
| popey | the low quality ones are mono | 22:27 |
| popey | oh, of course | 22:27 |
| popey | when recording, duh | 22:27 |
| popey | recording yes wav 44.1K | 22:27 |
| CieD | <leftyfb> QUESTION: last I checked, Ekiga doesn't do conferencing. Only 1 to 1 communication. Are there any "free" apps for voip conferencing? Like skype. | 22:28 |
| popey | good question | 22:28 |
| popey | gizmo5 does | 22:28 |
| popey | and has a built in recordeer function | 22:28 |
| popey | penguincentral podcast used gizmo5 | 22:28 |
| popey | and i know the shomedo guys have a conference call regularly which is recorded with gizmo5 | 22:29 |
| popey | multiplatform too, so if the person you are interviewing isnt a linux person they can still get involved | 22:29 |
| popey | next ? | 22:29 |
| Daviey | < jerichokb> QUESTION: How much of your material comes initially from the community - i.e. e-mail suggestions from outside the inner podcast circle? | 22:29 |
| popey | Good question! | 22:29 |
| popey | lets take ep4 (latest) as an example | 22:30 |
| popey | ian (of showmedo) was on, I contacted him | 22:30 |
| popey | Graham Bleach was on, he contacted us | 22:30 |
| popey | Mark Shuttleworth was on, he contacted us | 22:30 |
| popey | so in ep4 66% ish | 22:30 |
| popey | was from outside us | 22:30 |
| popey | ok, lets move on to interviews... | 22:31 |
| popey | * Some shows have interviews which can be done in a number of ways. | 22:31 |
| popey | Two (or more) people and one microphone with a portable recording unit. | 22:31 |
| popey | or laptop of course | 22:31 |
| popey | - Option one here is a Zoom H4 handheld solid state recording device with built in Mic (Used for FOSDEM seg in Ep1) | 22:31 |
| popey | - Option two here is a Mic and an iRiver H140 and two pairs of headphones (as yet unused in our podcast) | 22:32 |
| popey | option 1 came out really well, a handheld recorder is very useful, if a bit expensive, but of course, you can get cheaper than the zoom h4 that we use (and are lucky enough to borrow!) | 22:32 |
| popey | the iriver is a great bit of kit, you can get them cheap on ebay, and with a simple mic and two sets of headphones (one for you, one for the interviewee) you're sorted! | 22:33 |
| popey | Telephone call into the show. For this we have a SIP phone (Linksys) which has phono connectors which we take the audio feed out of (and into). | 22:33 |
| popey | Skype one on one (or conference) recorded by the interviewer (as yet unused by us, but used by many other podcasts) | 22:33 |
| popey | skype is a tricky thing | 22:33 |
| popey | depends how much you're into freedom | 22:33 |
| popey | and how much you want to produce a good podcast over sacrificing your morals :S | 22:34 |
| popey | how does everyone feel about skype? | 22:34 |
| popey | evil, should not be touched? or a necessary evil? | 22:34 |
| popey | it's a shame to _have_ to use it, or have no interview, I know some podcasts simply wouldn't exist without skype | 22:35 |
| popey | ok, the next section is a little about the editing process | 22:36 |
| popey | I have to confess to not knowing massive amounts about it | 22:36 |
| popey | tony does this bit :) | 22:36 |
| * popey hugs tonytiger | 22:36 | |
| popey | but here's what tony does! | 22:36 |
| popey | Audacity. Open each track, normalise to 0db. Listen through (perhaps at high speed) and note down which bits have actual content in. | 22:36 |
| popey | Chop those bits into a new project on separate tracks. Listen through each bit carefully thinking what is relevant to the subject matter and whether it fits in the flow of the conversation. | 22:36 |
| popey | Move chunks of speech around if necessary. Remove irrelevant bits. This is the editorial process. Also listen for technical faults, background noise. | 22:37 |
| popey | (like tonys cats or my baby son) | 22:37 |
| popey | Listen for speakers not quite assembling sentences properly or false starts which can be chopped out where possible. | 22:37 |
| popey | (like Daviey ) | 22:37 |
| popey | Listen through and chop gaps, erms and coughs where possible, leaving breathing pauses in although perhaps shortened. | 22:37 |
| Daviey | oi, i did it once! | 22:37 |
| popey | :) | 22:37 |
| popey | hey, tonys notes :) | 22:37 |
| popey | Polish edits (with crossfades etc. as necessary). Mix down and export as stereo WAV. Typically 20 minutes recording will be 7 minutes "off-air" comment, 13 minutes proper content. | 22:37 |
| popey | This will come down to 8-10 minutes once edited. Decide whether to drop a segment entirely (or hold for a future episode) depending on duration of overall show and quality of segment. | 22:38 |
| popey | so in a nutshell tony is great, he takes the utter crap we talk about and makes it sound good | 22:38 |
| popey | round of applause for tony! | 22:38 |
| popey | *clap* *clap* ! | 22:38 |
| CieD | \o/ | 22:38 |
| popey | Thats not even the end! | 22:39 |
| popey | In ardour! | 22:39 |
| popey | Import each studio WAV onto the studio track. Import intro and outro music and news bed into music track. | 22:39 |
| popey | Import sting into the sting track. Adjust volume settings as necessary for fade in/out of the music. | 22:39 |
| popey | Listen to track joins etc., adjust fade times to suit. Set up compression, limiter, EQ etc. (LADSPA plugins) on studio track as necessary and adjust settings. | 22:39 |
| popey | Export WAV and test (including opening in audacity and looking for unusual peaks.) Adjust settings and repeat as necessary. * LADPSA plugins (ubuntustudio-audio-plugins) | 22:40 |
| popey | ok, once we have the final wav, we then encode it! | 22:40 |
| popey | MP3 encoding using LAME or other converter. | 22:40 |
| popey | (check legality of mp3 encoding in your territory :S ) | 22:41 |
| popey | OGG encoding using oggenc or other converter. | 22:41 |
| popey | SPEEX or FLAC? | 22:41 |
| popey | Tony has made this easy with a great script... | 22:41 |
| popey | Podcoder (shell script to encode, set tags and embed image: http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/cgi-local/darcsweb.cgi?r=podcoder;a=summary http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/repos/podcoder/ | 22:41 |
| popey | any questions CieD Daviey ? | 22:42 |
| CieD | yep... Daviey? | 22:42 |
| Daviey | < CafeNinja> QUESTION: If someone was using the cheap audio setup you described, is there any advice you would recommend for them to try and achive good audio quality? | 22:42 |
| popey | record and listen to yourself | 22:42 |
| popey | get others to listen to test recordings | 22:42 |
| popey | relax when you record | 22:42 |
| popey | have a go at recording yourself having a conversation with a friend | 22:43 |
| popey | not an interview, just a chat | 22:43 |
| popey | see how it comes out | 22:43 |
| popey | micrphones are one of the keys | 22:43 |
| popey | I would _highly_ recommend downloading and watching the first ~6 episodes of Gear media Tech podcast | 22:43 |
| popey | they do reviews of lots of mics | 22:44 |
| popey | they talk about the technology and the difference between the differnet mics | 22:44 |
| popey | some needing a mixer, some very simple with a USB interface | 22:44 |
| popey | well worth a watch | 22:44 |
| CieD | <jerichokb> QUESTION: you have a voicemail box number for people to leave short audio messages. how is that set up? | 22:45 |
| popey | sipgate.co.uk | 22:45 |
| popey | register, job done | 22:45 |
| popey | however! | 22:45 |
| popey | I have taken a LOT of flak for choosing an 0845 number which is apparently expsnsive to dial | 22:45 |
| popey | we will likely change to a geographic number whcih is cheaper for listeners to call | 22:45 |
| popey | ok, lets move on | 22:46 |
| popey | Hosting! | 22:46 |
| popey | * The website itself is an Ubuntu Feisty Server (provided for free by Bitfolk.com - thanks) with Wordpress and some plugins:- | 22:46 |
| popey | Bitfolk rock! Thank you bitfolk! | 22:46 |
| popey | * Podpress - manages part of the delivery of podcasts, tracks stats and makes sure the RSS feeds have the enclosures | 22:46 |
| popey | * Akismet - detects spam in comments | 22:46 |
| popey | * Advanced Category Excluder - To prevent duplicate posts appearing on the front page | 22:46 |
| popey | * Fullscreen for WP Super Edit - To make editing the posts easily | 22:46 |
| popey | * Wordpress Automatic Upgrade - To upgrade wordpress promptly | 22:47 |
| popey | in short, wordpress works brilliantly for us! | 22:47 |
| popey | very simple, and does eexactly whats needed | 22:47 |
| popey | * Feedburner.com | 22:47 |
| popey | * 3rd party site that turns our wordpress-generated RSS feeds into something that is usable by most podcast clients. | 22:47 |
| popey | * Reduces load on our server as podcast clients check our site for updates. | 22:47 |
| popey | * Produces some wicked stats..... | 22:47 |
| popey | Here are some stats about our podcast.... | 22:48 |
| popey | "We have made only 4 episodes" | 22:48 |
| popey | (not a great stat that one) | 22:48 |
| popey | "We have shifted over 320GiB in bandwidth" | 22:48 |
| popey | "We have delivered over 13000 files" | 22:48 |
| popey | (mp3 and ogg only) | 22:48 |
| popey | "Ogg accounts for 54.1% of our listeners." | 22:48 |
| popey | (interesting...) | 22:48 |
| popey | "86.93% listen in high quality (47.29% in Ogg)." | 22:48 |
| popey | "We average 3376 downloads per show." | 22:48 |
| popey | "Our average show length is 00:39:52." | 22:49 |
| popey | "% of listeners in low quality has dropped from 15% (1st show) to ~10%(current show)." | 22:49 |
| popey | - Of course the figures are skewed because the counts are still low for ep4 | 22:49 |
| popey | - it's actually closer to ~12%. | 22:49 |
| popey | The telling question is: would we lose those listeners if we dropped the low quality version? | 22:49 |
| popey | ok, last two sections, mirroring and load balancing | 22:50 |
| popey | technically not required, but we figured it would be nice to setup to future proof ourselves for when we are the MOST POPULAR PODACST IN THE WORLD! | 22:50 |
| popey | MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA | 22:50 |
| popey | The telling question is: would we lose those listeners if we dropped the low quality version? | 22:51 |
| popey | erk | 22:51 |
| popey | * Mirroring | 22:51 |
| popey | We have had generous donations from people willing to host the podcast. We now have 7 mirrors which we setup dns aliases for. | 22:51 |
| popey | the dns aliases work like this.. | 22:51 |
| popey | XX-YY-N - XX = ISO country code, YY = City, N = Number, to identify them. We don't _have_ to do this but it is nice to do, and allows for easy admin and expansion. | 22:51 |
| popey | so we have uk-lo-0 which is UK, London, mirror 0 | 22:51 |
| popey | and others like us-sf-0 which is US, San Fran, mirror 0 | 22:52 |
| popey | We have rsync service setup on the main site (where the website is hosted) which is where the MP3 and OGG files get put initially. | 22:52 |
| popey | Each mirror uses rsync (or wget or ftp or whatever) to get updated every hour or so. | 22:52 |
| popey | We only release every other week so it's not that vital, and doesn't cause huge traffic for each mirror to check in regularly. | 22:52 |
| popey | Thanks to Clerkwell.co.uk & Bitfolk.com for providing two mirrors each and Naffallo and Showmedo.com also for hosting mirrors for us. (I host one too) [making 7] | 22:52 |
| popey | all of those mirrors were donated by the community | 22:52 |
| popey | remember right at the start I said that community is the best part of this! | 22:53 |
| popey | it's true! | 22:53 |
| popey | final section - nearly finished :) | 22:53 |
| popey | * Load balancing | 22:53 |
| popey | We have a script on the main server which has access to a small database listing the mirrors and their priority (to take account of peoples bandwidth allocations) | 22:53 |
| popey | When we publish a podcast to the site, assuming all the mirrors are up to date, we specify urls to the podcast which actually point to the script | 22:53 |
| popey | Publishing consists of creating 5 pages in wordpress, a main one linking to the various formats which is published to the front page. | 22:53 |
| popey | The other 4 pages are not published to the front page (thanks to Advanced Category Excluder) but are used to make the RSS feeds for the various formats of files. | 22:54 |
| popey | When users request the MP3 and OGG files, the script looks up the available mirrors and redirects the user to the file on the mirror | 22:54 |
| popey | Some people get in early, and get the files directly from the mirrors, bypassing our script (this makes us sad :( because we can't count those stats) | 22:54 |
| popey | any more questions CieD Daviey ? | 22:54 |
| Daviey | < jerichokb> QUESTION: whose was the best limerick? :P | 22:54 |
| Daviey | (requires background) | 22:54 |
| popey | listen to the podcast to find out | 22:55 |
| popey | http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/ | 22:55 |
| popey | specifically episode 4 | 22:55 |
| popey | Worth noting that we - all of us - are more than happy to help any other ubuntu people to setup their own podcasts | 22:55 |
| CieD | <Coli2> <Question> When is Ubuntu-UK Podcast LIVE ? :-P | 22:55 |
| popey | we dont think that we should be the only loco doing this - every loco should have their own podcast | 22:55 |
| popey | if we can help we will | 22:56 |
| popey | hahah | 22:56 |
| Daviey | just don;t do better than us :) | 22:56 |
| popey | Coli2: you missed it, it was last thursday and I was buying the beer! | 22:56 |
| popey | well I think thats it | 22:56 |
| popey | thanks very much for watching/listening | 22:57 |
| Daviey | Remember, we are always looking for submissions.. contact us if you want to help! | 22:57 |
| popey | and dont forget over the next 8 months we have money-off voucher competitions for the canonical store! Listen to the podcast for details! | 22:57 |
| popey | :D | 22:57 |
| popey | thanks jcastro | 22:58 |
| jcastro | thanks guys! | 22:58 |
| jcastro | Ok, we're done for the day, see you at 1500UTC tomorrow for more sessions! | 22:59 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!