calcare we going to have ext4 support in intrepid?00:11
* calc notices Fedora9 has preliminary support already00:11
=== ubottu is now known as ubotuu
mjg59calc: Until there are guarantees about the on-disk format being stable, I doubt it00:11
calcmjg59: oh so the 2.6.25 merge wasn't the final on-disk format?00:12
=== ubotuu is now known as ubottu
jdongmjg59: I roughly read that the last on-disk format  changes are being merged into .25?00:13
jdongheh he beat me to it00:13
calcwell 2.6.25 just was released so i suppose they don't really know for certain yet ;)00:13
mjg59jdong: The last planned ones00:14
mjg59Which doesn't mean there are none00:14
mjg59It still registers as ext4dev, rather than ext400:15
jdongmjg59: ah, I see :)00:15
calcoh ok00:15
jdongmjg59: do you follow ext4 development personally?00:15
mjg59Not heavily00:15
=== danielm_ is now known as danielm
=== thegodfather is now known as fabbione
dholbachgood morning06:41
dholbachhi emgent06:41
emgentheya dholbach, all ready for intrepid UDS ? :)06:42
dholbachyeah :-)06:42
emgentgo intrepid go heheh06:43
dholbachROCK :-))06:43
emgentdholbach: saw http://www.seqfault.de/blog/index.php?/archives/87-Einfach-mal-Danke-sagen.html ?06:44
dholbachyeah - that's awesome06:45
* jdong still awaits his t-shirt with that :D06:45
emgentheya jdong06:45
emgentcjwatson o/06:45
dholbachjdong: nice06:45
jdongok when you people start waking up it's a sign I need to start sleeping.06:48
* emgent hungry06:49
pittiGood morning06:59
emgentheya pitti06:59
tonyyarussoSay, anyone know when repos will be opening?  (approx.)06:59
pittiRiddell: good, I'll process the queue now every morning anyway :)07:00
tonyyarussojdong: Same :)07:00
ograemgent, !07:00
ograemgent, impressing07:00
* tonyyarusso is amused that he's on the list of people in that pic, and therefore would consider buying such a t-shirt if it existed07:00
zultonyyarusso: im guessing when its ready :)07:01
tonyyarussohehe, likely07:01
emgentogra: ?07:03
pwnguinjdong: the more curious question is, where do these people who sleep normal hours come from?07:03
ograemgent, the link :)07:04
emgentoh lol :)07:04
* bimberi sees his name and dances a little jig07:06
bimberiright in the middle of "Thank" :)07:07
cjwatsontonyyarusso: matter of days07:23
cjwatsontonyyarusso: the toolchain is well in progress07:23
tonyyarussocjwatson: ah, cool07:41
bryceslangasek: question for you - for 8.04.1 would updates to the binary drivers -nvidia and -fglrx be possible, or is that too much risk?07:54
bryce(I don't have a strong opinion, but if it's not feasible, I'll un-milestone bugs that would require such updates)07:54
cjwatsonwe're in discussions with AMD about fglrx, for the record; I asked in the last call if we might be able to push back on intrusive changes and get a minimally-branched version, though haven't had an answer on that yet07:58
cjwatson(our discussions with AMD are unfortunately NDAed)07:58
brycecjwatson: ok we can talk more on it tomorrow07:58
cjwatsonoh, meh, yeah, we have a call this afternoon07:59
brycecjwatson: I guess EnvyNG is also available as an option now07:59
cjwatsonbryce: anything special for it?07:59
cjwatson(the call, that is)07:59
brycecjwatson: not from my end07:59
brycecjwatson: I think their engineers have "can't reproduce"'d the five bugs I sent to them08:00
slangasekbryce: IMHO yes, binary driver updates are something we need to be able to accomodate in the SRU policy elsewise so there's no reason fglrx/nvidia shouldn't be candidates so long as we get reasonable SRU verification08:01
slangaseks/binary driver/black box executable/08:02
bryceslangasek: ok good to know.08:02
pittibryce: BTW, Alberto prepared some l-r-m-envy packages, I'll take a look at them today08:03
pittibryce: bug 221304 FYI08:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 221304 in envyng-core "EnvyNG installs Ubuntu's lrm but it should install its own packages" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22130408:04
brycepitti: excellent08:05
pittibryce: we should also think about backporting some new jockey features to hardy once they land in intrepid08:05
pittibryce: like proposing new drivers for pinpointed hardware (not generally upgrading fglrx for everyone)08:06
pittibryce: but that's way post-UDS08:06
* bryce nods08:06
brycepitti: being able to install one version of -fglrx for some hardware and a different version for other hardware would solve one or two wishlist bugs too08:07
pittiargh, hardy isn't released for a week, and already the first ABI bump in -proposed? *sob*08:20
Hobbseei'ts the crack.08:21
* tonyyarusso guesses there will be more changes than usual between now and 8.04.108:21
pittitonyyarusso: yes, absolutely, since we throw a lot of resources at it08:22
tonyyarussoRight, and the fact that there are certain things (ie, Firefox) that are a big deal and will certainly need them.08:22
slangasekpitti: I think our choices were to have it the week after release, or the week of RC ;)08:23
pittislangasek: BTW, would you have a chance to look at the hardy-proposed jockey upload? it currently breaks X for people without an xorg.conf08:24
slangasekpitti: "it currently" -> "the version in hardy"?08:25
pittislangasek: yes08:25
seb128tonyyarusso: do you have specific firefox issues in hardy?08:26
slangasekpitti: ok - will look, yes08:26
pittislangasek: thanks; I mailed you about it with some details yesterday08:26
pittislangasek: I just wasn't sure whom to bother for my own SRUs08:26
tonyyarussoseb128: One minor one that I notice most of the time, but I was under the impression that the point release will include the FF3 final - is that incorrect?08:27
pittislangasek: (erm, s/whom/who/, right?)08:27
slangasekwhom is correct :)08:27
pittiargh, Launchpad, where are thou??08:27
seb128tonyyarusso: it'll be considered yes, can't say for sure until saying what they actually change and if that's suitable for a stable update, but that should be alright08:28
seb128tonyyarusso: but you say that's a big deal, so you have real issues right now?08:28
cjwatsonseb128: the URL classifier is a fairly major one, I think08:29
tonyyarussoseb128: makes sense.  As far as current issues, the most prominent throughout the cycle has been the some images showing black at certain resizings.  Haven't tested in FF since release though, only Ephy.08:30
seb128tonyyarusso: those were due to xorg and should be fixed in hardy08:30
=== cprov-afk is now known as cprov
seb128cjwatson: not denying there is some issues, I was just curious to know if tonyyarusso has some specifics one or if the comment was just about hardy having a candidate version rather than the official stable one08:31
* StevenK thinks of Gimp in Gutsy08:31
seb128StevenK: you have been marked by this one apparenly ;-)08:32
tonyyarussoseb128: hmm, had one earlier today in ephy, so if it's xorg I would think that had gone away.  I'm not going to pretend my testing has been sufficient to say anything for sure though, and my environment is far from clean, given that it's been continuously upgraded since the repos opened.  I note that https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/xorg-server/+bug/182038 does indeed claim fix released.08:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 182038 in xulrunner-1.9 "Black rectangle instead of image in FF3 [Hardy]" [Medium,Fix released]08:32
StevenKseb128: There's no apparently about it ;-)08:32
tonyyarussoThat "is it ready for my girlfriend" posted raised a handful of legitimate points as well.08:33
pittidoes launchpad.net work for other people? it's just stuck for me08:34
seb128pitti: works for me but I'm using edge08:34
stgraberpitti: edge WFM08:34
seb128let me try the normal one08:34
pittiright, in fact it's edge that's stuck for me; https://launchpad.net WFM08:34
pittiseb128: nevermind, edge it is08:34
seb128pitti: yes, works fine08:34
* pitti blames his ISP them08:34
tonyyarussopitti: WFM too.08:35
StevenKArgh, more langpacks08:35
pittiah, seems it came back now08:35
HobbseeStevenK: what do you want in front of them?08:35
Hobbseeubottu: bug 508:35
ubottuHobbsee: Error: "bug" is not a valid command.08:35
Hobbseebug 608:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 6 in rosetta ""next 10 entries" at bottom of page" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/608:35
Hobbseeoh good.08:35
Hobbseeit mostly works, then08:35
StevenKHobbsee: python-central in the ubuntu-mobile PPA08:35
ograpitti, you had an outage too ?08:36
pittiogra: yes08:36
ograseems somewhere in the telekom network a router fell over08:36
ograi cant reach canonical irc atm08:36
tonyyarussoSay, what would be the "proper" way of drumming up support for a Blueprint if it's been pretty much ignored so far?08:36
* Hobbsee fiddles, flicks a few switches08:37
StevenKHobbsee: thallium has picked it up, thanks08:38
StevenK(thallium is an element? Blink)08:38
ogratonyyarusso, send money to people :)08:38
ogratonyyarusso, beer is also a ood bribe08:38
tonyyarussoogra: You know, I could do that, although it would only be a token bit of funding, not a fair rate for their time.08:39
HobbseeStevenK: your python-central is served.08:40
HobbseeStevenK: enjoy08:40
tonyyarussoI'm told telepathy (which wasn't really mainstream when I first had the thought) should make it a lot easier.08:40
=== DreamThi1f is now known as DreamThief
ogradear deutsche telekom, please fix your network !09:02
ografirt the routing was f*cked ... now the DNS is gone09:03
stgraberogra: use opendns, those are fast and usually reliable09:06
Companythe trick is to not use telekom09:07
Companyand to not use arcor09:08
ogradid anyone ever try to paste an IP in the xchat serverlist ?09:08
ograits impossible by design09:08
ogra(as soon as you click an entry it automatically gets the selection and wipes the paste buffer)09:08
stgraberogra: use irssi, this one let you connect to IPs :)09:10
\shogra, don't you have any cable tv provider next to your house?09:10
ograCompany, i have a buisness SDSL line, there is no other provider offering that at a feasable price09:10
\shogra, and xchat works here with an ip address ,-)09:11
ogra\sh, i dont get the upload rates i need at iesy09:11
\shogra, sdsl? qsc?09:11
ograand i didnt mean to use an ip09:11
ograi men to copy paste an ip in the server list instead of the server name09:11
ograthats impossible09:12
ograyou have to type it in any case09:12
\shwell, xchat is evil anyways ,-)09:12
ograsince selecting the entry will wipe your paste buffer09:12
\shogra, more funny, you enter anything into the serverlist, and if you don't press <tab> key, and click on "ok" it throws away the change09:12
ogra\sh, i have a 2 year contract with telekom with guaranteed uptimes and direct support (no call center)09:13
ograi.e. a business line09:13
\shogra, but telekom...09:13
ogra\sh, yeah, thats another oddity09:13
* \sh ports kmyirc to gnome and python...so everything'll be fixed in the future ,-)09:14
ograwell, i usually dont have probs with xchat09:15
ograsince i rarely change the config :)09:15
* \sh fights with bacula...09:19
ograSpads, are there known probs with irc.c.c ? it kicks me out all the time after some seconds09:19
Spadsogra: no known problems I can see09:20
ograhmm, ok, must be my side then09:20
=== emu is now known as emu1982
Spadsanyway this is a question for #canonical-sysadmins, not here09:20
ograSpads, oh, sorry09:21
Spadsogra: that said, I'll just point out that I'm having some net connection problems here at home, so it may be that there's some general routing problems in europe right now09:21
ograi had some before already09:22
ograthen DNS didnt resolve anything outside of germany ...09:22
ogranow it looks like its back but i get kicked out all the time ... probably not over yet09:22
* ogra wil just wait09:23
Spadsyeah, I'm getting *terrible* packet loss right out of the gate here09:23
cjwatsonmvo: noticed in python-apt:09:29
cjwatson    locale = os.getenv("LANG", default="en.UK")09:29
cjwatsonmvo: shouldn't that be en_GB? UK isn't a valid country code09:29
cjwatson(not that it matters much, since most people will have LANG set)09:30
mvocjwatson: that looks wrong, let me check that09:31
cjwatsonmvo: discovered while trying to figure out where bug 221644 lived09:33
ubottuLaunchpad bug 221644 in python-apt "ftp.caliu.info mirror borked" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22164409:33
=== StevenK_ is now known as StevenK
mvocjwatson: I was wondering why you digged into those dusty corners in pyhton-apt ;) the mirror list ist just a file, if the mirror is dead, I can remove it from the list and prepare a sru09:35
bolshmjg59: I've been following DebuggingGNOMEPowerManager - a nice read09:37
bolshSending the message directly to DBus, things work fine09:37
bolshThey also work fine via the "Quit" menu item, and the "Suspend" button now09:38
bolshI did a recursive-reset of GPM settings to make sure I wasn't using some old settings09:38
bolshClosing the lid still has the same problem09:38
bolshI don't understand09:39
cjwatsonmvo: how do you keep it up to date? ideally I'd have a full list in choose-mirror too09:39
mvocjwatson: I have a small script that gets them from launchpad, give me a sec, I dig it out09:39
cjwatsonif you could mail it to me that'd be lovely09:40
=== emu1982 is now known as emu
bolshAnyone know a magical dbus-send incantation to turn on a backlight?09:42
=== emu is now known as emu1982
fs_i need some help with the ubuntu kernel build proccess09:56
fs_am i at the right place here?09:56
dholbachfs_: try #ubuntu-kernel09:57
ografs_, #ubuntu-kernel might be better09:57
pittidoko: any idea about http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14036302/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.cdbs_0.4.52ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ?10:07
dokopitti: not yet, have to look10:09
=== emu1982 is now known as emu
=== emu is now known as emu1982
=== emu1982 is now known as emu
=== emu is now known as emu1982
* hunger wonders whether he should switch to intrepid...10:35
cjwatsonif you enjoy having a broken system10:37
cjwatson(it won't be broken right now, but will be as soon as we start the autosync)10:37
Hobbseei can't believe i'm actually pondering not running intrepid until alpha 5 or so.10:38
* ogra usually upgrades a week after uds10:38
RAOFHobbsee: WHy is that?10:38
hungerwill hardy is sooo boring. No new packages, nothing:-(10:38
ograhunger, you could fix bugs for 8.04.1 ;)10:39
RAOFDo you have something _useful_ to do with your computer, or other crazy reason?10:39
HobbseeRAOF: undecided how much dev work i'll end up doing.  although presumably i'll start with gnome stuff.10:39
ograthat will give you even new packages in -updates10:39
HobbseeRAOF: not overly.  the stupid uni ports stuff means there's no point taking it there10:39
hungerogra: Nah, that is your job. I do report bugs, but I don't have the time to fix them for you.10:39
ograhunger, but yu have time to be bored by missing updates ? come on :)10:40
hungerWell, actually I only report bugs when they are more pain to me than using LP:-)10:40
RAOFHobbsee: Hm.10:41
Hobbseehunger: there is a mail interface.10:41
RAOFIt won't be the same without you ;)10:41
Hobbseeno, no Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!™10:41
Hobbseeogra: that was my old habit.10:42
hungerogra: Well, usually you do not break stuff that really manages to stop me from using my toy-box.10:43
hungerogra: And managing my own packages (like git-core which is too old in hardy) takes time as well.10:44
cjwatsonat the risk of stating the obvious, anyone in #ubuntu-devel is at least implicitly accepting responsibility for doing some development. :-)10:45
* ogra adds a if [ "$(id -un)" = "hunger" ]; do break_in_mysterous_ways .... to all his packages 10:46
hungerogra: Feel free to do that.10:46
hungerogra: IRC_nick != login_name ;-)10:46
slytherinCan anyone please comment if bug 199116 will qualify for SRU?10:49
ubottuLaunchpad bug 199116 in vinagre "Can not send 'Ctrl+Alt+Del'" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19911610:49
Riddellwhat's the ubuntu xrandr tool called?11:04
Mithrandirthe xrandr tool is called xrandr.11:04
cjwatsonhmm, I've had two reports of bug 221635 now11:04
mvoRiddell: you probably want gnome-display-properties11:04
ubottucjwatson: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out11:05
ogralp seems down11:05
cjwatsonjust slow11:05
ograor extra slow at least11:05
pittijust worked up to 30 seconds ago, now it's stuck here, too11:05
cjwatsonI'd love to know why a signal handler installed with sigaction (SIGCHLD, ...) is getting signum != SIGCHLD11:06
cjwatsonanyone have any idea what might be going on there?11:06
ograslytherin, where is the fix in that bug ?11:06
slytherinogra: I am preparing it with the patch in upstream bugzilla.11:07
ograwithout patch nobody can tell you if it justifies for an SRU :)11:07
slytherinogra: Ok. I will create the fix, test the package myself and then upload the debdiff.11:08
seb128_slytherin: GNOME 2.22.2 will be uploaded to hardy so you might want to not bother and wait a few weeks11:08
ograoh, there is an upstream task on it, right11:09
slytherinseb128_: I will have to ask vinagre maintainer if he is going to do a release before that. Meanwhile I will provide a fix in my ppa anyway for those in need. Is that fine?11:10
ograslytherin, the upstream bug already has a commit entry11:10
seb128_it'll not be fixed in stable though11:10
ograno need to put work into it11:10
ograseb128_, no SRU ?11:10
seb128_since it breaks the string freeze apparently11:10
seb128_ogra: not sure if we have a sru policy about not breaking translations in stable11:11
ogra+  { "MachineSendCtrlAltDel", GTK_STOCK_ABOUT, N_("Send CtrlAltDel"), NULL,11:11
seb128_ogra: +    N_("Send Ctrl+Alt+Del to active connection"), G_CALLBACK (vinagre_cmd_machine_send_ctrlaltdel) },11:11
ograif you drop "Send" its working for most langs11:11
seb128_ogra: not really, and it would be ugly11:12
seb128_my point is upstream will not fix it in GNOME 2.22.2 so yes we need to sru it if we want the change11:12
seb128_though I'm not decided if breaking translations in stable is a good idea11:12
seb128_or adding new strings in this case11:13
seb128_I guess we will have regular language pack updates so if it's done early before 8.04.1 why not11:13
slytherinseb128_: ogra: As of now, the fix is made in 2.23.x branch in upstream svn. I will write mail to upstream author asking if it will be available in the version in GNOME
ograslytherin, seb explained before that its not suitable for an SRU11:38
ograit breaks translations11:38
slytherinogra: But if it is part of GNOME 2.22.2, then it is fine right?11:39
ograit isnt11:39
ograread what seb128_ wrote above11:39
slytherinogra: I read it, but I misunderstood11:40
ograslytherin, the transaltion thing has to be clearified before a decision can be made at al11:41
slytherinogra: Ok. For now I will just upload the package to  my ppa.11:42
=== lamont` is now known as lamont
xivulonHi all, is there any russian here? I would like a second opinion on bug #22011212:22
ubottuLaunchpad bug 220112 in wubi "Default keyboard variant for Russian ought to be "winkeys"" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22011212:22
seb128_slytherin: do you think it's an import feature or something many users requested?12:29
cjwatsonxivulon: surely that's a console-setup bug rather than anything wubi-specific12:30
ograseb128_, you need ctrl-alt-del for windows logins12:30
slytherinseb128_: in my opinion it is regression because xvncviewer has option to send ctrl + alt + del. And from my experience using vnc for last 4 years, you need it 70% of the time. :-)12:31
cjwatsonxivulon: ah, never mind, already filed on console-setup12:31
seb128_slytherin: doing a sru seems to be a good idea then12:31
seb128_slytherin: we want those sort of fixes for 8.04.1 and it can be translated in rosetta if uploaded soon enough12:32
slytherinseb128_: Ok. I have created a package and testing it. How do I update .pot file?12:33
seb128_the package uses cdbs and the gnome rule so it's done automatically12:34
seb128_you just need to make sure the source is listed in the POTFILES.in12:35
slytherinseb128_: I will be back in 20 minutes. Will get back if I have probolem.12:36
seb128_you can just look to the pot after the build and make sure it contains the new strings12:36
xivuloncjwatson, is it ok if I set it invalid for wubi then? When I see windows keyboard #00000419 I will only preseed local=ru without variant12:39
xivulonwhich is what I am doing already12:40
cjwatsonxivulon: if Windows has two different keyboard layouts, one of which corresponds to ru and one of which corresponds to ru:winkeys, then there would be a reason to do something in wubi12:40
cjwatsonxivulon: otherwise, just console-setup/layoutcode=ru is appropriate, and wubi shouldn't override it12:40
xivulonyeah that is what I asked, but had no reply. From what I can gather 00000419=ru+winkeys, not sure if there is another code for ru-winkeys. But I would doubt it12:41
xivulonsince normally windows code for explicit variants are a bit different12:42
=== seb128_ is now known as seb128
=== fta_ is now known as fta
slytherinseb128: 2 questions. 1. I have built the package with 'dpkg-buildpackage -b' and tested it. The .pot change doesn't reflect in debdiff, is that fine? 2. Should I have release as 'hardy-proposed' in changelog?13:12
tkamppeterpitti, hi13:17
tkamppeterRiddell, hi13:32
dnearyHi Till13:32
tkamppeterdneary, hi13:33
dnearyShould acpid and apmd both be activated in 8.04 for power management to work?13:33
dnearyI'm struggling with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/22384813:34
ubottudneary: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out13:34
ograapmd is a noop usually13:34
dnearyI'm also struggling to figure out why a printer shared by a Mac, which worked fine until I upgraded, is no longer getting automatically picked up13:34
ograonly there for systems that actually do apm, else it wont even start up13:34
dnearyI'm working around the suspend issue, my remaining issues are the printer and sound (which isn't working at all)13:35
dnearyogra: So there's no harm in leaving it checked, then?13:35
Riddellhi tkamppeter13:38
ScottKRiddell: Who is your relief today for the archive?  I missed one package yesterday (I'll upload it in a moment).13:38
RiddellScottK: seb128, but I can do it13:38
ogradneary, checked ? where ?13:38
ScottKRiddell: Thanks.  I'll ping you after it's uploaded then.13:38
dnearyogra: In System->Administration->Services13:39
ograah, yes13:39
ograits automated, you can leave it on13:39
dnearyOK, printer OK13:40
dnearyNext: sound13:40
shashi I am using Ubuntu 8.04 64-bit version, if i install any 32-bit applications like browsers, datbase clients ...etc. The 32-bit based applications not able to reach /etc/resolv.conf file to communicate to the network. Any one tell me how to resolve this issue ?13:42
Hobbseeshashi: this is not a support channel, and you have no need to put it into multiple channels at once13:42
Hobbseeshashi: please read the /topic.13:42
ScottKRiddell: claws-mail uploaded to gutsy-backports, please accept it.  I'd also appreciate it if you would backport devscripts from Intrepid to Hardy (I've tested it - can file a bug if you want it).13:48
dnearyalsamixer looks fine13:50
dnearyBut even catting a wav to /dev/audio doesn't give me any noise13:50
RiddellScottK: done13:51
ScottKRiddell: Thanks.13:51
ftadoko, it seems gcc 4.2 is not upgradable in intrepid without trashing a part of gnome. is it just me or is it a known issue ?14:00
cjwatsonit seems a little early to be worried about upgradeability in intrepid14:00
cjwatsonit's going to be much more spectacularly broken soon enough, for a while14:00
Hobbseecjwatson: except for any of those who are insane enough to run it.14:00
wgrantcjwatson: Hardy was never particularly broken.14:01
* \sh loves xorg breakage ... regarding one of our last cycles while our Xorg maintainers were transforming xorg into something better ,-)14:02
dnearyDid anything replace logrotate in 7.10?14:04
dnearyI have some huge log files (messages, syslog, debug.log, daemon.log) that should have been rotated out by now.14:05
dokoI assume that's the wrong external dependency of python-gobject on libffi414:05
ftadoko, looks like it14:07
ftadoko, or libffi4 itself14:09
tkamppeterRiddell, are you already in contact with Alex and Lars?14:11
Riddelltkamppeter: lars yes, we had a good chat yesterday evening, he seems to know what to do14:11
Riddelltkamppeter: alex I'm yet to hear from14:11
Tonio_is there a way to invoke language-selector the command line way only (without a X session) ?14:12
Riddelltkamppeter: lars is on #openusability14:12
tkamppeterRiddell, Lars has already done good work for the new foomatic-rip, which is the most important point to let Intrepid use PDF as standard print job data format. I was VERY content with him.14:13
dnearyOK - so it's still logrotate, it's run through cron.daily, which would run if my computer wasn't suspended overnight, and there doesn't seem to be any recipe to rotate syslog, daemon.log, kern.log, debug, auth.log, or messages14:13
tkamppeterRiddell, you are chatting there currently with him? Will enter the channnel.14:13
tkamppeterRiddell, what about Alex, did you contact him and he did not answer or what is the problem?14:14
ftadoko, 4.2.3-4ubuntu1 doesn't seem to be complete.  http://paste.ubuntu.com/8924/  are those libs no longer built ?14:21
Amaranthpedro_: can you renew my membership to ubuntu-bugcontrol?14:29
pedro_Amaranth: no way!14:29
dokofta: no14:29
pedro_Amaranth: give me a min ;-)14:29
Amaranththanks :)14:29
dnearyAnyone mind sending me their default /etc/logrotate.conf, please?14:32
pedro_Amaranth: you're welcome, it's done now :-)14:34
=== sucitrams is now known as sucitrams_
=== sucitrams_ is now known as sucitrams
Amaranthpedro_: woohoo, now i can keep marking serious usability bugs as wishlist14:34
dnearyOK - I think the sound problem is fixed14:47
tkamppeterpitti, hi14:49
pittihey tkamppeter, how are you?14:54
tkamppeterI want to know about bug 217787.14:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 217787 in samba "cups crashes when using web-gui and refuses to print" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/21778714:56
tkamppeterpitti, If the user has not pam_smbpass installed, CUPS does not work correctly for him, if he has this PAM module installed, CUPS crashes in the module.15:03
ftadoko, no as in "it's a wanted change" or no as in "it's a bug". It seems to me that your "regenerate control file" was a bit too aggressive. all the libs are correctly built but they no longer have a deb associated.15:04
dokofta: no, it's not a bug, the soname did change15:15
ftadoko, eh?? i'm talking about this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8944/  seems to be much more than a soname change15:18
ftaor did i miss something?15:18
loolE: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg received a segmentation fault.15:19
loolJust after unpacking sudo15:19
loolpitti: ^15:19
loolAnd no crash report, damn15:19
pittilool: ugh, dpkg crash?15:21
pittilool: do you have apport enabled?15:21
loolI'm trying it again15:21
loolThis time, it's stuck15:21
loolOr busy for a long while15:21
loolHmm dmesg wont run, but I can run top; weird15:22
loolThe system is foobar15:23
pittithat seems seriously screwed15:23
pittilool: (FUBAR, you mean? :-) )15:23
* lool reboots15:24
loolpitti: Dépaquetage de la mise à jour de sudo ...15:26
loolErreur de segmentation15:26
loolAnd still no crash15:27
* pitti removes ~/ubuntu/sudo/debian/patches/dpkg_overflow_exploit.patch15:27
loolpitti: but kill -segving a bash does produce a crash file15:28
pittilool: anything in /var/log/apport.log? does the dpkg crash at leats appear there?15:28
loolpitti: Could it be that dpkg registers a segv handler?15:29
loolI don't know how the kernel machinery works15:29
pittilool: theoretically yes, but the stderr output looks fairly standard15:29
pittilool: do you get a segfault in dmesg?15:29
* pitti dist-upgrades to sudo hardy-proposed15:29
loolI get an OOPS in dmesg indeed15:29
loolSo it's kernel stuff15:29
lool[  125.486444] invalid opcode: 0000 [#1] SMP15:29
ograhmm, i didnt get sudo offered even with the latest update15:31
cjwatsondpkg doesn't handle SEGV15:31
mjg59lool: I blame unionfs15:31
loolmjg59: Very likely15:31
loolinvalid opcode is weird; is this a kind of code overwrite consequence?15:32
pittidist-upgrade worked fine here (hardy + -proposed, amd64)15:33
pittiah, unionfs15:33
loolSomeone running the live CD could try pulling sudo from hardy-proposed15:33
mjg59lool: That's it hitting a BUG_ON statement15:34
loolFor fun and profit of course15:34
loolmjg59: Ok15:34
mjg59So it's because the kernel's got into a state which ought to be impossible15:34
loolSo I dump that in a bug report or is someone here interested in my providing more info?15:34
mjg59That's probably the best you can do right now15:35
loolunionfs -> linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 I guess15:37
ogralool, checking on a classmate, gimme some mins ...15:38
ogralool, same15:42
ubottuLaunchpad bug 224754 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 "BUG ON crash probably due to unionfs when installing sudo update with dpkg" [High,New]15:42
loologra: Thanks for reproducing15:42
* ogra adds a me too to the bug15:42
loolhrwsr-xr-x root/root         0 2008-04-30 11:39 ./usr/bin/sudo lien vers ./usr/bin/sudoedit15:43
loolCould it be the weird permissions?15:43
loolOther links have:15:43
loolhrw-r--r-- root/root         0 2008-04-30 11:39 ./usr/share/man/man8/sudoedit.8.gz lien vers ./usr/share/man/man8/sudo.8.gz15:43
ogranow my termonal doesnt take input15:44
loologra: Oh it will hose your host, sorry15:45
ogralool, doesnt matter, i'm surrounded by classmates, i can just take another one ;)15:45
ograwhere do you see these permissions ?15:45
ogramine seem ok15:46
ogra-rwsr-xr-x root root .....15:46
loologra: dpkg-deb -c on sudo.deb15:47
ograi dont have a h there15:48
ograoh, i do15:48
ogralooked at the wrong file15:48
ogradoes unionfs not like hardlinks ?15:48
loolwe shouldn't be shipping hard links in packages15:49
loolYeah, it's a hard link on my desktop15:50
mjg59lool: Why not?15:50
loolmjg59: I think it's against policy15:50
loolJust like device files15:50
loolBut this is from memory, ICBW15:50
mjg59lool: Seems to be a should rather than an absolute, but I'd be interested to know the reasoning15:50
ograhm, hard links dont work across different filesystems, right ?15:51
ograwhich is exactly what unionfs tries here i bet15:51
mjg59ogra: No, but unionfs should still cope15:51
loolI see nothing current in policy15:52
mjg59lool: 12.115:52
loolOnly prevents you to use hardlinks with conffiles15:52
loolAnd source packages15:52
mjg59lool: Seems to be specific to manpages15:52
loolOh and man pages15:52
loolmjg59: man pages and other stuff15:52
loolmjg59: I do recall some package (lirc I think) has a RC for shipping device files, but that's another story15:53
mjg59If it's in the same directory, it shouldn't be a problem15:53
ograshipping device files ?15:53
ograthats just crazy15:53
loolSo hmm do we have unionfs hackers around15:55
loolCause it's the second high impact bug with unionfs and we currently plan to ship with unionfs on the devices...15:55
ograaufs ftw in intrepid :)15:55
ograeven though we dont have hot aufs hackers either15:55
ogralets see what #ubuntu-kernel has to say :)15:56
\shogra, shipping device files, or actually creating device files during make run was in former times the standard behaviour ,-)15:57
ogra\sh, udev is used since when ?15:57
\shogra, well, it wasn't there in SuSE Slackware Nov./94 :)15:58
ogralool, do you actually do updates on the MID by default ? (on top of the unionfs)15:58
ograi dont think it will break if the hardlink is inside the rofs only15:59
loologra: Yes we do15:59
loolOr rather we will15:59
pochudo we have overrides for sections as Debian have?15:59
pochuor do we trust debian/control?15:59
ograyou must have plenty of space16:00
* ogra is envious16:00
loologra: Good point16:00
* Daviey had some major problems with unionfs that didn't show in aufs..16:00
loologra: We actually do that to save space16:00
ograupdates ?16:00
loologra: But I realize how silly it is16:00
ograyou have the same apps twice then16:00
loologra: We want the standard image to fit on small disks16:00
ograone in rofs and once in cow16:00
loolBut if you take into account the place taken by the updates, you lose a lot of space16:01
ograyeah, i understand i have similar probs on the cmpc16:01
loolDepends on the amount of updates to the base system and for how long16:01
loolBut it's going to be interesting after some kernel updates16:01
loolHmm that's though to reconcile16:02
loolI can only propose to drop unionfs, but then we wont ever make the disk space commitments in time16:02
ograwell, i have /var and /boot on real partitions on the cmpc16:02
ogra(/var on ext3 speeds up the package tools immensely)16:03
ograthey are nearly unusable on unionfs16:03
loolThey work decently here16:03
ogralucky you16:03
loolWell it's slow to read the list of installed files/packages16:03
ograg-a-i never returns from reading its package lists if i run it on unionfs and have universe enabled ...16:04
Hobbseeholy cow.16:04
ograat some point the device just dies on IO16:04
* Hobbsee starts going thru the moderation lists16:04
ograluckily putting var away saves my butt here :)16:05
=== BenC__ is now known as BenC
Hobbseelooks like more people are forging the address to spam16:05
=== danielm_ is now known as danielm
Hobbseeright.  moderation queue done.16:11
Hobbseecjwatson: you may want to put in spam rules for 'Delivery Status Notification (Failure)' and 'failure notice' and 'Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender' etc, on that list16:12
* Hobbsee can now go to bed16:12
cjwatsonHobbsee: I actually filed an RT request the other day asking for postmaster@ and mailer-daemon@ to be discarded across the board16:13
cjwatsonwhich should cover mostly the same thing16:13
Hobbseecjwatson: ah yes, that would help, too16:13
=== twi1 is now known as twi_
emgentheya people16:27
crop[linuxforum]Hello all16:44
crop[linuxforum]Are there anything known about 8.10: when it will be, main goals e.t.c?16:45
ograobviously in october as the version tells you16:46
ogragoals will be defined at the developer summit16:47
crop[linuxforum]ogra, thank you:-) I will watch for development of 8.1016:52
mathiazslangasek: I've going through the samba bugs - it seems there is an issue with ucf17:40
mathiazslangasek: there are a couple of post-install failed - they seems all related to the ucf prompt17:41
slangasekmathiaz: bug #s?17:43
CarlFKif ntp.ubuntu.com seems to off by about 30 seconds (as is another stratum2), should I bother anyone here about it?17:46
=== mako__ is now known as mako
cjwatsonCarlFK: #canonical-sysadmin17:51
ion_Canonical might as well be running a stratum 1 server. :-)17:53
nxvldid someone knows who is in charge of shop.canonical.com?17:53
mathiazslangasek: bug 221427, bug 221526, bug 221963, bug 223971, bug 224061, bug 22456717:55
ubottuLaunchpad bug 221427 in samba "package samba-common 3.0.28a-1ubuntu4 failed to upgrade from Gutsy to Hardy" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22142717:55
ubottuLaunchpad bug 221526 in samba "package swat 3.0.28a-1ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22152617:55
ubottuLaunchpad bug 221963 in samba "package samba-common 3.0.28a-1ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22196317:55
ubottuLaunchpad bug 223971 in samba "could not install amba Common, upgrade will continue but samba package could be in a not working state" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22397117:55
ubottuLaunchpad bug 224061 in samba "package samba-common 3.0.28a-1ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22406117:55
slangasekmathiaz: 221526 says 'swat', which is unrelated to ucf17:56
slangasekmathiaz: the term.log on #221963 is very interesting :)17:59
Caesarslangasek: #216990 is turning into a real bobby dazzler, eh?18:00
mathiazslangasek: yeah - seems like an issue between ucf and the gnome-frontend18:01
slangasekmathiaz: really, it looks to me like he had a non-pristine smb.conf, chose 'start a new shell to examine the situation', and then manually killed the frontend for whatever reason18:02
slangasekCaesar: I'm not sure what a bobby dazzler is, so I'm just going to nod fervently in agreement18:02
Caesarslangasek: rip-snorter?18:03
slangasekthere we go :)18:03
mathiazslangasek: well - bug 224061 has the same issue18:03
ubottuLaunchpad bug 224061 in samba "package samba-common 3.0.28a-1ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22406118:03
slangasekmathiaz: that one doesn't look like the same bug; actually 224061 is one I've seen before, ucf seems to do something totally nonintuitive and broken when the only differences are whitespace :/18:09
slangasekmathiaz: so we need to fix that in ucf18:09
mathiazslangasek: right - some of these bugs are related to ucf rather than samba18:10
mathiazslangasek: samba doesn't use ucf is some wired ways - so I'll reassign the bugs to ucf18:11
slangasekI'm not sure 221963 is any bug that we can fix; I can't see what we should do differently if the user kills the frontend in X18:12
* cjwatson wonders if http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/lp-bug-notify.png is something anyone else wants to have18:16
cjwatsonthe notification, that is18:16
mathiazslangasek: it seems there are are two issues - the one were the user had a root prompt and did an exit18:17
sorenPossibly. procmail+notify-send?18:17
cjwatsonprocmail plus bizarre lash-up plus notify-send, but right18:17
mathiazslangasek: and then further down, the one where ucf prompted for the potential action18:17
cjwatsonit actually goes through the irssi notification system I set up earlier today ;-)18:18
mathiazslangasek: I'll ask the user what he did in the second situation18:18
sorencjwatson: I'd like to see it, actually.18:18
slangasekmathiaz: I think the 'exit' itself is probably not the cause of the failure; the user is clearly using the gnome frontend in the first run, and I think he first chose the 'examine with a shell' option, and then subsequently killed the window18:19
sorenI'm running out for bit, though.18:19
cjwatsonsoren: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/notifications/ has most of the bits18:19
cjwatsonthe special key in fnotify is a bit gross, and there's no locking on that file18:20
cjwatsonand the irssi bit is dependent on http://www.leemhuis.info/files/fnotify/fnotify18:20
* cjwatson updates irssi-notify there for the LPBUG stuff18:21
astronuti can't find a straight answer in any of the published documentation, in the installer's partitioner, does manual -> edit partion -> newsize do a destructive or nondestructive resize, esp ntfs?18:46
astronutor is it based on the d-i code?18:47
sladenastronaut: what do you mean destructive/nondestructive?18:48
astronutsladen: edit partition table and ignore filesystem or actually adjust filesystem18:49
astronutiui, will changing the filesize of an ntfs partition call ntfsresize to shrink it18:49
sladenastronut: are the files on the NTFS partition deleted (no).  Are the files moved around (yes, they are moved towards the "front").  Will they still be there when you reboot (yes)18:49
=== guerby_ is now known as guerby
astronutsladen: nondestructive then18:50
sladenastronut: Yes, ntfsresize has been used in the Ubuntu installer for ~3 years automatically18:50
astronutsladen: another possible design: editing the partition size adjusts the partition table but doesn't touch the filesystem. on reboot, the filesystem is corrupt and ya18:50
astronutsladen: glad to hear18:50
astronuti wasn't sure if it was in the manual or just the guided18:51
astronutdocs weren't clear and the prompts weren't very reassuring18:51
astronutgot no guided prompt because there weser several partitions on that drive (dell laptop)18:51
hwildeon that note, it's nto really clear when resizing the partition, it says "New partition size:"  then it has a slider bar.  is that the new size of the existing partition, or the size of the new partition to be created?18:51
sladenastronut: agreed.  I get scared myself.  File a bug that it should be more informative (especially if you can work out how to phrase it more concisely/clearly)18:52
astronuthwilde: that's not as obscure18:52
astronutsince it's edit not create18:52
astronutalso it starts at the current value18:52
astronutsladen: i'm doing it for a friend, i don't use ubuntu normally18:52
hwildeastronut, i'm sure it's easy for you to understand but not for everyone.18:52
astronuthwilde: i didn't get a slider though, got a num box18:53
hwildemost people think they are making a new partition to install ubuntu, and then it says "New partition size"18:53
astronutwhat's the name of that control called? spinner?18:53
astronutthis was from the live cd installer, not the bootable one18:53
hwildeso they think, oh I only need 8G for my new partition, but in reality they are resizing their existing partition18:53
sladenastronut: if you've had to come here to check, for every one of you, there will be a thousand who haven't asked.  And it would be good to fix it for them aswell.18:53
astronutsladen: sure... i just hate LP18:54
astronutthough i might have an account, not sure18:54
lagais there any way to make my see this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mythtv/+bug/221176 i'm one of the mythtv maintainers in ubuntu and i'd like to triage it.18:54
ubottulaga: Error: This bug is private18:54
hwildebut it wouldn't be that difficult to label both sides of the slider bar:  Re-sizing of the existing partition,    New partition size18:54
=== asac_ is now known as asac
astronuti didn't have a slider bar18:54
astronuti had a number box, insert size in m18:54
hwildedesktop livecd installer?18:54
james_wlaga: ask in #ubuntu-bugs for a member of bugcontrol to process it18:55
lagajames_w: thanks.18:55
astronuthwilde: ya18:55
astronuti'm using sysresccd to do the resize18:55
astronutsince i couldn't get an answer18:56
sladenastronut: well, I'm not the words greatest fan of Launchpad either.  However, it's what we've got (though it has improved over time).  If you have have suggestions about how to help the LP team make Launchpad suck Less, file at https://bugs.launchpad.net/malone/+filebug18:56
hwildeit's definitely a slider bar in the livecd installer with gparted, and it definitely says "New partition size", and it's definitely confusing enough that people have asked me about a dozen times what that means18:56
astronutsladen: heh...18:56
astronutsladen: normally ijust use debian and ignore ubuntu except when i get MoM mails18:56
=== Zic is now known as Zic[Pipi]
=== Zic[Pipi] is now known as Zic
sladenastronut: fixing d-i will fix the resize translation issue for Debian *and* Ubuntu.  So it still be appreciated if you could file it.18:58
astronutsure, later18:58
astronuti'll have to double check the message is th esame18:58
sladenastronut: very likely.  It's a sed script that replaces every instance of 'Debian' with 'Ubuntu'18:59
astronutnow this livecd isn't booting19:00
astronutok, i'll just do the manual edit19:00
sladenastronut: unless you're setting up RAID/LVM you really probably don't need to use the advanced made19:01
astronutsladen: i said manual, not advanced19:02
sladenastronut: grab the DesktopCD and double-click the icon on the desktop and you'll get a shiny GUI partition editor (which should automatically guess "what you want to do"(tm) anyway)19:02
astronutsladen: this thing has a coupel partitions, i get either guided (whole disk) or manual19:02
astronutsladen: been there, done that, didn't happen19:02
astronuti may not have done many ubuntu installs, but i've done tons of debian installs...19:03
ograwe must be nearing an UDS ... sladen is back :)19:04
sladenastronut: so you're using a DesktopCD with "manual partitioning".  Or are you using the "Alternate CD"?19:04
astronutthe former19:04
astronutit's booting right now19:04
astronutinto the installer19:04
astronutinstead of live environment19:04
astronutthough apparently they're not that different19:05
astronuti dont' get a slider in manual mode, sadly19:05
astronutyou guys should work on that19:05
astronutwhat is it, just a gtk port of whiptail?19:05
astronutlets hope i don't kill my friend's data19:08
hwilde!enter | astronut19:09
ubottuastronut: Please try to keep your questions/responses on one line - don't use the "Enter" key as punctuation!19:09
hwildeI love ubottu  :)19:09
astronutsorry hwilde19:09
astronutsladen: did i meet you at DC8?19:09
astronutuh...hello... it just returned from resize and they don't look any different19:11
astronutwait, never mind, the dialog just got hidden... it's still at 0% after like 10 minutes19:12
sladenastronut: d-i is the alternate installer; Ubiquity (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubiquity) is the Live installer (which hooks back to d-i), for which there are GTK and Qt frontends.19:16
sladenastronut: maybe.  I was certainly at Debconf19:16
astronuthow lon gshould this take? 40->30 gb resize19:16
sladenastronut: if the dialogue isn't modal on-top, that's a bug19:16
astronuti think i clicked on the install dialoge to bring it forward19:16
astronutby mistake19:16
sladenastronut: probably quite awhile... depends how full it is;  there's probably 5-15GB to be moved around19:17
astronutok, fair enough19:18
astronutit'd be ncie if the progress bar worked19:18
sladenagain.  If it doesn't.  *PLEASE* file a bug19:18
sladenyou've found 3 issues so far19:18
astronutthere we go19:19
sladen(1) the wording on the resizer can be improved.  (2) that the progress bar should be modal  (3) progress bar taking ages to go from 0% to 1%19:19
sladenastronut: what's your LP id.  I'll even go to the trouble of opening the bugs19:20
astronut...why does it say unusable space?19:20
astronutastronut i guess19:20
astronutif i have one19:20
astronutit was when they imported debian people's19:20
astronutis 11589 mb not sufficient to install?19:20
astronutthat's about 10 gigs19:21
sladenmore than enough.  But how much free-space is there in the NTFS?19:21
astronuti'm saying it ays there's unusable space on disk19:21
astronutoh, shit i'm guessing there are 4 primary partitions19:21
sladen(4) issues.19:22
astronutok, now that thare's free space but partions, will the guided to a primary -> logical conversion?19:23
sladenastronut: I have a feeling not.  Find cjwatson19:24
astronuthim i remember meeting at dc19:24
astronutthat'll be the same as di, right?19:25
astronuti'm waiting on windows chkdsk to make sure nothing broke19:25
astronutwhy can't we get rid of the whole only four partion things?19:27
astronutor is that a matter of the size of the partition table19:27
sladenastronut: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUID_Partition_Table19:30
astronutthere's not a way to do primary->logical in DI19:33
astronuterr, ubiquity... does DI do it?19:35
sladenoh, it'll get poked to the right place eventually19:37
highvoltagehey sladen!19:40
sladenhighvoltage: what happened to that fridge list stuff?  I got a message with a launchpad.internal URL in it and ignored it more19:41
highvoltagesladen: fridge list stuff? I don't think I got anything about it.19:42
sladenastronut: right.  I've failed all of those issues except the "launchpad suckz" one.  Are there any others?19:42
sladenhighvoltage: oh well.  Never mind.  There are more important things in life19:42
astronuti saw19:43
highvoltagesladen: I'll PM you :)19:43
astronutsladen: ubuiquity should have an option to turn primary partitions into logical ones19:43
mathiazjames_w: re bug 221963 - why did you set the state back to New ?19:44
ubottuLaunchpad bug 221963 in samba "package samba-common 3.0.28a-1ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22196319:44
james_wmathiaz: because the files that were asked for were provided, is there more information needed?19:44
james_wmathiaz: sorry for changing it while you were working on it19:46
mathiazjames_w: no problem - I tend to not set it to New once I've had a look at it19:46
mathiazjames_w: For me, NEW means that nobody looked at it19:46
mathiazjames_w: then I move it to Incomplete until the bug has been Confirmed, Invalid, Won't Fix or Triagged19:47
james_wmathiaz: ah, ok.19:47
mathiazjames_w: There isn't a standard workflow19:47
lesshasteHi, Can I ask about how to assign a bug to kernel? r toolchain | Ubuntu 8.04 LTS released! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application dev has a note saying that but I don't know how to actually do it19:51
lesshastehttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/224561 has a note saying that but I don't know how to actually do it19:51
ubottuLaunchpad bug 224561 in linux "DVD drive errors in hardy" [Undecided,New]19:51
* lesshaste is moving to #ubuntu-bugs19:52
astronutsladen: apparently gparted doesn't do taht19:59
=== ogasawara__ is now known as ogasawara
astronutit's funny, you'd think it'd be relatively trivial, it's all done in the MBR, no? or would you have to shift everything down a few k19:59
sladenastronut: that's what I can't think.  Can't remember if it needs an extra 4kB ading20:00
sladenor just twiddling MBR bits (it's going to break disk labelling in Windows)20:01
=== bobbo_ is now known as bobbo
astronutsounds like it requires a small shift...bah20:05
astronutstill, it doesn't sound overly complicated...should be added to gnu parted20:05
astronutcompultationally complex, but not procedureally20:06
astronutalthough i guess if there's no free space, you can't do it20:06
astronutin my case it should be easy since there's free space ahead of it but no tool to do it20:06
=== toresbe_ is now known as toresbe
cjwatsonsladen: there are bug reports about everything mentioned above already, and also a few specifications20:20
cjwatsonastronut: it feels rather like saying "yes, this partitioner will not destroy your data and instead will behave sensibly", to be perfectly honest; i.e. stating what should be the obvious state of affairs20:20
cjwatsonhwilde: that slider is fixed in 8.0420:20
cjwatsonastronut: you can't do a primary->logical conversion; you'd break whatever operating system lives there20:21
cjwatsonastronut: very bad idea to present that20:21
cjwatsonastronut: and no, ubiquity is not a gtk port of whiptail :-P20:21
cjwatsonastronut: but it is based on the d-i code20:21
mysterycoolI have been checking around ubuntu's web now and i found somewhere that it says "if u want to learn u can find a mentor in the development team". where is the development team and how can I get in touch with a mentor?20:22
hwildecjwatson, cool i've only done the server install yet20:22
cjwatsonhwilde: the live CD installer does not use gparted (since 7.04); please don't refer to gparted unless you are actually certain that that's what it is, because it tends to cause confusion20:23
cjwatsonhwilde: (and in any case the "New partition size:" bit wasn't gparted even in 6.06/6.10)20:23
* ogra giggels about "gtk port of whiptail"20:23
hwildetake it easy - i'm not the one who made the wording ambiguous :/  people struggle with that and its very important to not mess up the partitions20:24
* toresbe doesn't know how to reliably reproduce or file this weird bug.20:24
toresbeUsing swf player in Firefox makes my monitor randomly jump out of sync.20:25
cjwatsonhwilde: I know, I'm just asking not to use technical terms (gparted) unless you're sure. :-) "partitioner" would be fine.20:25
ffmHow do I install all the builddepends of a package via APT?20:25
hwildecjwatson, ok I will only speak in screenshots from now on - but you obviously knew exactly what I meant because you said it's fixed20:25
cjwatsonastronut: the spinner in the manual partitioner is different from what hwilde was talking about; I think the problem is less severe there since there isn't an implicit other partition in that context, but there are bugs about that (e.g. bug 117986)20:26
ubottuLaunchpad bug 117986 in partman-partitioning "partition resizing UI breaks me every time" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/11798620:26
cjwatsonhwilde: I don't mean to go that far, plain English is fine20:26
cjwatsonI've been confused in the past by people talking about gparted in bug reports, so I just wanted to make a general point, that's all, don't take it personally20:26
hwildewell you can either educate the entire universe, OR put a label in the window title that says it's not gparted, then people will use the correct terminology20:27
* ogra points ffm to #ubuntu-motu for such questions .... apt-get build-dep <package> 20:27
cjwatsonhwilde: uh, it's not called ls or openoffice.org either. :-)20:27
hwildecjwatson, how would anyone know what to correctly call it without you telling them20:28
hwildeput a label in the window title20:28
cjwatsonthey can use a plain English word rather than guessing jargon20:28
cjwatsonthe window title says "Install"20:28
ffmogra: merci.20:28
* hwilde stares at cjwatson20:28
hwildeif you want people to refer to it by the correct name, put that name on their screen and they will20:29
cjwatsonI don't want people to refer to it by ANY NAME AT ALL20:29
cjwatsonit's the installer. That word "Install" is on their screen.20:30
hwildeyou act like I said bomb on an airplane20:30
cjwatsonno, you're arguing ever more vociferously with me and I'm responding20:30
cjwatsononly people who happen to remember that at one point the installer happened to use gparted for its advanced partitioning mode will be confused and say gparted20:30
cjwatsonthat small number of people can easily be reminded when they make a mistake, and it's not a problem20:31
hwildegparted gparted gparted yeah I said it...  i'm sorry20:31
cjwatsonputting jargon on the screen for the purpose of educating a small number of old-timers is not worth it20:31
cjwatson"Install" is all it needs20:31
cjwatsonhow am I supposed to correct people who make mistakes if you get really annoyed about it? seems bizarre, it was just a simple factual correction20:32
hwildewhat does it use if not gparted20:32
cjwatsonit's a layer over d-i's partman20:32
sladenmysterycool: #ubuntu-motu is a good place to start20:32
cjwatsonthe GUI part is written from scratch20:32
hwildeand how would anyone know this just by looking at it20:33
cjwatsonthey don't need to20:33
cjwatsonnobody who is coming at it with no experience at all can possibly come up with the name gparted :-)20:33
hwildeok I agree20:34
cjwatsonthe reason that we went for a from-scratch GUI is that the partitioning "business logic" is a lot harder to get right than the GUI20:34
hwildeI am sorry that I typed in "gparted" instead of "that nameless partition editor in the livecd installer setup screen when you are resizing an existing partitioner"20:34
astronutcjwatson: acks20:34
cjwatsonand since we have to maintain two installers with different UIs, it makes sense to duplicate the UI not the underlying logic20:35
hwildeanyways it was a point about the wording of the instructions, not the underlying partitioner20:35
hwildeand you knew what I meant so there wasn't really any confusion20:35
cjwatsonin this case, yes20:35
hwildeall i'm saying is that people frequently ask,   is this the new size of hte existing partition, or the size of the new partition being created20:36
cjwatsonbut I *have* spent extra time trying to untangle confusing bug reports where people used the gparted jargon incorrectly, and this wasted my time20:36
astronutcjwatson: will the breaking count if it's a data partition?20:36
astronutbesides breaking an fstab20:36
cjwatsonso I have a general policy of correcting people when they use it wrongly, so that eventually the meme can go away20:36
astronutbut if i move an ntfs to a whatever, ti'll still just show up as the next availble letter20:36
cjwatsonhwilde: right, this is why we spent some effort fixing it in 8.0420:36
cjwatsonwith a better resize widget20:36
cjwatsonastronut: sorry, "breaking"?20:37
hwildecjwatson, to avoid future confusion I strongly recommend putting a label on that screen, even if it's "Installer step 5 - Repartitioning"  then people can refer to it by the correct name20:37
cjwatsonhwilde: sorry, I disagree and will not20:37
cjwatsonwith all due respect20:37
astronut15:21 < cjwatson> astronut: you can't do a primary->logical conversion; you'd  break whatever operating system lives there20:37
cjwatsonastronut: oh, right. Yes, it will break any /etc/fstab (etc.) that refers to it20:37
astronutthat's relatively minimal... it'd be nice to have the option20:37
cjwatsonetc. being potentially scripts that refer to /media/sda4/ or whatever20:37
cjwatsonI do agree that it's all too possible to dig yourself into a hole with four primary partitions20:38
astronutin this case it was del20:38
cjwatsonit just seems like a massive bazooka to give people so that they can point it at their foot, so I'm not sure20:38
cjwatsonhmm, I thought Dell shipped with three primary partitions; that's certainly how mine came20:38
astronutcjwatson: hidin orsomething, i don'tknow20:39
hwildethe hidden restore partition :/20:39
cjwatsonand indeed that's why we weakened the constraints on the auto-resize option in 8.04 to allow operation with three primary partitions20:39
astronutcjwatson: i'm not sure... thisone has a a tiny fat16, two large ntfs (C: and D:, d has label backup and had some empty folders and some data) and then a hidden fat32 w/ restore data20:39
cjwatsonhmm, I might have to ask some Dell contacts about that20:39
astronutone folder was "Ghost backups"20:40
astronutbut was empty20:40
cjwatsonit's really awkward to do that without making at least one of them a logical partition20:40
astronutsounds like it was some backup solution20:40
astronutno kidding20:40
cjwatsonI believe there'll be a couple of Dell people at UDS, so I'll corner them then20:40
astronutsounds likeit was designed for ghost to backup the C: into d:/ghost20:40
astronutUDS? ubuntu desktop summit?20:40
cjwatsonUbuntu Developer Summit20:40
astronutwas close20:40
astronuti guess UbConf just doesn't have a nice ring20:41
cjwatsonwe went through a number of names :)20:41
cjwatsonI don't think libparted provides a way to do that kind of conversion; you'd have to delete the partition (but leave data there) and create a new one with the same extents20:41
cjwatsonsounds hairy at best20:42
cjwatsonoh, hmm, actually it's not always possible20:42
cjwatsonunless there's room before the partition, the extended partition table would have to go in the first couple of sectors20:42
astronutright, if disk is ful, you can' add the data20:42
slangasekyou also have to either resize the partition before it on the disk, or move the partition, to accomodate the extra header for the logical partitions20:43
cjwatsonso you'd literally have to shift everything forward 4KB or whatever, which means that if power fails in the middle of the operation, you lose all the data20:43
cjwatsonright, slangasek put it more clearly20:43
* slangasek nods20:43
slangaseker, not nodding that I put it more clearly, nodding that we're in agreement about the problem ;)20:44
bd_If a package in universe has been rebuilt without source changes (what in debian would be called a binNMU, not sure what the official term is in ubuntu), and a new version goes into debian, is a manual universe sync needed?20:44
cjwatsonresizing is (I believe) safe in the sense that if power fails you're still OK; or at the very least the windows are much smaller20:44
bd_http://patches.ubuntu.com/g/gimp-resynthesizer/gimp-resynthesizer_0.15-2build2.patch <-- the diff of the package in question20:44
cjwatsonbd_: no, autosync is only inhibited if the version number contains "ubuntu"20:44
bd_ah, okay20:44
bd_I'll just wait for the unfreeze then :)20:44
cjwatsonbd_: the purpose of "build" is precisely to allow autosyncs :-)20:44
astronutwhy id someone do a sourceful upload of cyrus to do a rebuild by the way?20:44
bd_cjwatson: excellent :)20:44
Chipzzbd_: I don't think that's what debian calls a binNMU20:44
astronutdo you guys not do binary rebuilds20:44
cjwatsonastronut: we don't have binNMUs in Ubuntu, no20:45
cjwatsonlargely as an intentional policy20:45
bd_Chipzz: well, a debian binNMU is usually accomplished by kicking it back to the buildds20:45
Chipzzhrrrrm wait20:45
cjwatsonthough it might be implemented one day20:45
ChipzzI'm thinking of a binary only upload20:45
bd_although in theory a DD could manually do a binary only upload of a package that's not their own20:45
cjwatsonbinNMUs are a special kind of binary-only upload20:45
cjwatsonbd_: done it plenty of times. :-)20:45
cjwatsonit's called a porting upload20:45
Chipzzbd_: a rebuild is not a NMU though20:46
Chipzznor a binNMU I thin20:46
ChipzzNMU = Non Maintainer Upload20:46
cjwatsonChipzz: rebuilds are called binary-only NMUs in Debian20:46
Chipzzcjwatson: they are? I thought they were just referred to as rebuilds/retries20:46
cjwatsonChipzz: even if the maintainer requests it, these days it's actually done by buildd triggers, so it's still usually signed by somebody other than the maintainer20:46
Chipzzie 'give back' a build20:46
cjwatsongive-back is when it failed the first time20:47
slangasekhistorically, all porter builds are "binNMUs"20:47
cjwatsonbinNMUs are when you bump the version (which in Debian is possible without bumping the source version)20:47
bd_Chipzz: 'give back' means something different in debian - it's how you unwedge a stuck build, I believe :)20:47
cjwatsonbd_: it means the same in Ubuntu, Chipzz is just a bit mixed up :)20:47
bd_ah, okay :)20:47
cjwatsonwe should probably have a glossary somewhere20:48
Chipzz21:45 < Chipzz> I'm thinking of a binary only upload20:48
slangasekmore recently, that became confusing and in Debian the term is almost exclusively used now to refer to building a package on a buildd with a changelog-only diff to get the binaries rebuilt against the current archive20:48
cjwatsonright, originally Maintainer != signer => NMU; we've got a bit more sophisticated with terminology since20:49
Chipzzwell, I think the term binNMU is confusing20:49
bd_Chipzz: it is, but it's one character shorter than rebuild, so :)20:49
Chipzzbecause an NMU usually involves changes the maintainer does not know about/has not given permission for20:49
bd_(not one /keystroke/ shorter though alas)20:49
cjwatsonthat's not true at all20:49
cjwatsonit's quite common for a maintainer to authorise an NMU when they're unable to upload for some reason20:49
Chipzzhrrrm I should rephrase then20:49
Chipzz"changes not made by the maintainer"20:50
bd_and binNMUs also happen without the maintainer asking in many cases (library transitions etc)20:50
slangasekChipzz: oh, I've more than once had a Debian maintainer be completely oblivious to binNMUs I've done :)20:50
cjwatsonChipzz: that's not true either, given Uploaders20:50
cjwatsonan NMU is just that the person who made the upload is not one of the set of people who would ordinarily upload the package (originally just Maintainer, now Maintainer + Uploaders)20:50
Chipzzugh, I should shut up then I think :)20:50
bd_cjwatson: however, the buildds are, in a way, part of the set of people(?) who would ordinarily upload the package... ;)20:51
cjwatsonbd_: (of course using binNMUs for library transitions is a relatively recent innovation)20:51
bd_cjwatson: hm, really? Color me newbie then :)20:51
cjwatsonback in the day, we didn't have enough central buildd control to schedule them across all architectures, so there was no point20:52
Chipzzcjwatson: it's just that I'm more accustomed to the old meanings I guess20:52
Chipzzwell, meaning...20:52
cjwatsonnowadays that's basically all sorted out so that the release team can do them across the board20:52
cjwatsonChipzz: I'm accustomed to an older meaning ;-)20:52
* bd_ nods20:52
bd_now if only debian would take the plunge and move to sourceful uploads too... :)20:52
slangasekwhich required wanna-build to first grow binNMU support, yes20:52
Chipzzin my mind NMU's often were associated with "hostile" intentions20:53
Chipzzbut that may be my flawed perception20:53
cjwatsonthat's really something that came later; originally NMUs were much more often friendly20:53
cjwatsonwhich is one of the things we were trying to get back to in setting up Ubuntu the way we did20:53
* cjwatson -> dinner20:54
Chipzzcjwatson: enjoy :)20:54
bd_is it me or did launchpad pick a moderately bad time for scheduled maintenance, what with toolchain uploads and etc going on? :)20:55
slangaseknah, that's /way/ better than having it scheduled the week of a release20:57
LaserJockthere's never really a good time, IMO :-)20:57
ograwell, we're not really in a hurry, are we ?20:58
stgraberLaserJock: christmas break ? :)20:58
jdongogra: speak for all y'all non-backports users ;-)20:59
bd_Well, there is the may 1 target for the toolchain upload.20:59
ograjdong, heh20:59
cjwatsonbd_: the toolchain's almost entirely done, so it's OK21:08
cjwatsondpkg is really the only thing left21:08
bd_nice :)21:08
bd_oO koffice2 is building on intrepid already?21:10
bd_[ https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/koffice2/1: ]21:11
cjwatsonbd_: might just be sparc trying to catch up21:13
cjwatsonif it didn't make it on hardy (or even if it failed), it'll retry21:13
slangasekyes, I knew when the buildds started tackling intrepid by the flood of build failure mails :)21:15
* cjwatson wonders whether to keep dpkg-triggers upgrade handling from mid-gutsy21:17
cjwatsontechnically removable and would simplify the diff, but I do hate removing upgrade handling21:18
bd_cjwatson: Would pre-depending on an appropriate version of dpkg be enough?21:18
cjwatsonwhat, in dpkg? :-)21:18
cjwatson(I'm merging dpkg)21:18
bd_oh wait, on dpkg's side :)21:18
bd_I thought you were referring to some kind of release goal for trigger-using packages :)21:19
elmois there a standardized 'is this service running' check for Ubuntu initscripts?22:09
slangasekthere was discussion among the server team about standardizing on a 'status' command, but it was late in the cycle and deferred in light of overlapping plans for upstart status reporting22:11
elmook - well if it ever exists, it'd be nice if the glibc preinst used it22:11
sladenelmo: theoretically if you use Keybuk's fancy stuff you should be able to get that and more22:11
elmoas in, 'no please do not restart the IMAP server I just carefully stopped in prepartion for the dist-upgrade'22:12
keesjcastro: do you have upstream Blender contacts?22:12
jcastrokees: sure do22:12
keesjcastro: can you point them at bug 6671 ?22:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 6671 in blender "insecure file access (breezy, dapper, edgy, gutsy, hardy)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/667122:12
elmoand pam22:13
jcastrokees: will do22:13
keesjcastro: thx22:13
slangasekelmo: well, pam at least lets you override the list :)22:14
Keybukthat's just a bug in Debian initscripts22:15
Keybukrestart should do just that22:15
Keybukit should only stop and start it if it was running to begin with22:15
Keybuknever start it when it wasn't22:15
slangasekthe libpam postinst code doesn't rely on a functional "restart" command anyway; I don't remember why22:16
slangasekpossibly because some init scripts get clever and don't actually re-exec the binary on restart; and possibly because that's not how "restart" is defined in debian policy?22:16
slangasek(policy does specify that the outcome of a successful 'restart' command is always to leave the service running at the end)22:18
KeybukI think my point was that policy sucks :)22:18
keesI think "graceful" should be the 'restart-if-already-running'.22:19
keesalthough, that's probably a bad name too22:19
Nafallokees: makes me think of apache :-)22:21
infinity"/etc/init.d/apache2 random" sound like fun to me.  Then we can just close every bug report with "well, what did you EXPECT it to do?"22:22
keesNafallo: yeah, I was trying to think of a "restart"-like command that fails when it's not already running, and IIRC that's true for apache's "graceful"22:23
Nafallokees: oh. never actually tried it with apache off to be honest :-)22:23
=== nenolod_ is now known as nenolod
=== johanbr_ is now known as johanbr
sorencjwatson: I just took at peek at bug 221635..23:18
ubottuLaunchpad bug 221635 in man-db "man does not work" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22163523:18
ted1Sexist bug.23:19
sorencjwatson: I've not looked too closely, but I noticed that around line 720, you define another struct sigaction that you don't memset(0, blah, blah) first.23:19
sorented1: :)23:19
sorented1: I've been looking for you, by the way..23:20
ted1Uh, oh.23:20
cjwatsonsoren: true, but I set all the elements documented by sigaction(2), with the exceptions that (a) it says not to set both sa_handler and sa_sigaction (b) it says not to use sa_restorer23:21
cjwatsonmaybe you're supposed to zero sa_restorer anyway23:21
sorencjwatson: I'm not sure.23:23
sorencjwatson: It just jumped out at me and thought it might help.23:23
cjwatsonlooking at arch/x86/kernel/signal_32.c, I think it *might* get used even if you don't put SA_RESTORER in sa_flags23:23
cjwatsonhard to be sure, but you could be right23:24
cjwatsonanother instance of that in pipeline_pump too23:25
cjwatsonthough code in gnulib doesn't bother to do the memset23:26
cjwatsonI'll shove memsets in for the sake of paranoia, but unfortunately I'm not convinced :-/23:27
cjwatsondearly wish I could get an strace of the damn thing23:28
sorencjwatson: Well, a hint as to which signal it's receiving would also be nice.23:31
cjwatsonI suspect it's just as easy to get an strace as to get them to install a new version23:32
cjwatsonand unfortunately stdio in signal handlers is not kosher23:32
cjwatsonwhich makes safe debugging output tricky23:32
sorenI'm not sure I realise what the problem is? At least not in a sigchld handler.23:33
cjwatsonsignals may be taken while stdio is in an inconsistent state. If you use stdio in a signal handler you may crash randomly depending on exactly when the signal was taken.23:34
cjwatsonhaving just taken out code that used stdio (assert) for that reason, I'm not going to put it back in. :)23:34
sorenAh... Yes, good point.23:36
cjwatsonhttp://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/xsh_chap02_04.html#tag_02_04_03 lists the POSIX-defined functions safe for calling within a signal handler23:37
crimsunTheMuso: hmm, I still have system sounds (WRT 192888)23:52
TheMusocrimsun: Well I've only tested on my notebook, and when using dmix with pulse, the startup sounds doesn't play for example. Playing it from gnome-sound-properties gives a sample caching error.23:54
crimsuninteresting, because that's the test I /just/ attempted :-)23:54
TheMusoI'll test on other machines I have here.23:54
TheMusoThis was with the latest pulse stuff from bzr.23:55
TheMusoLet me test on my amd64 box with an hda-intel sound chip.23:58

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