tonyyarussoelky_work: Do you actually get paid on the same day as you fill out the timesheet?  Mine come a week later.00:06
elky_worktonyyarusso, i work in a really small company and get paid by check00:07
tonyyarussoelky_work: how small?00:07
elky_workabout 10 people nationwide00:07
tonyyarussoAh, nice.00:07
elky_work6 on site, about 4 work remote00:08
tonyyarussoEmployer #1 is about 200, with direct deposit.  Employer #2 is about 10, and pays by check "when we feel like it" - I still need to submit hours for the last three months or so.  Employer #3 is tens of thousands (state gov't), again with direct deposit.00:08
elky_workthis is offtopic for here anyway00:10
LjLdid we ever care?00:10
elky_worki think it's worth keeping this channel clean of fluff for a while until things settle00:11
LjLfull of fluff00:11
LjLoh, clean of fluff00:11
=== ubottu is now known as ubotuu
LjLwhat'm i thinking00:11
elky_workoh come on, it should be ubotoo00:11
tonyyarussoThat's fair.00:11
* tonyyarusso moves over a window00:12
=== ubotuu is now known as ubottu
elky_workNICKSPAM! :P00:15
alpharesearchhello 00:30
alpharesearchI had to reinstall ubuntu from scratch and now I want to copy my old home folder00:31
alpharesearchbut the user can not access the files00:31
alpharesearchhow to chmod  in the gui?00:32
Seeker`alpharesearch: This is not a support channel - have you tried #ubuntu?00:35
mneptokdown there they're 'rounding a posse to ride.00:42
Seeker`mneptok: ?00:42
LjLi would ignore him00:42
jdongI grossly misread that sentence.00:43
jdongI won't say what I thought it said...00:43
mneptokin a corner garden. wilder, lower. house in order.00:43
LjLjdong: or you didn't00:43
Seeker`erm, can we get a +b on mneptok over here? thanks.00:43
mneptok"Chronic Town" kids. a classic.00:43
Seeker`hmm, have my email servers broken, or am I just unpopular00:44
Seeker`even spammers dont like me this evening :(00:44
LjL... right00:51
elky_workwho are dav7 and unic0rn?00:52
Seeker`elky_work: where?00:53
elky_workin this channel00:53
Seeker`wasn't dav7 the guy that wanted to run a bot in #ubuntu to collect some data or something00:53
naliothelky_work: they are idling, aren't they?00:53
naliothdav7: can we help you?00:53
naliothunic0rn: can we help you?00:53
Seeker`who is w grant?00:54
mneptokFujitsu, even00:54
elky_workSeeker`, fujitsu. he had to change his nick after people confused him with fujisan00:54
Seeker`ah, ok00:54
Seeker`seancron: hi, how can we help you?00:54
unic0rnnalioth: well, i've discussed a topic of #ubuntu-pl with PriceChild here yesterday, i still need to translate some logs and so on, so well... yeah, i am quite idle here.00:54
mneptokone is a mountain. the other is a heavy manufacturing conglomerate.00:54
elky_workSeeker`, you cant.00:54
Seeker`well, that was easy - if only all people were that easy to deal with00:55
elky_workunic0rn, i believe #ubuntu-irc is the place for non-main channel discussion?00:55
naliothunic0rn: i'm sure PriceChild can PM you or invite you back here if necessary00:55
ubottuI am ubottu, standing in for ubotu while he's getting his haircut done, nose powdered, updated and transitioned to his new, gorgeous looks in the near future ;)01:02
jribugh, he keeps changing nicks :)01:02
jribheads up, paste.ubuntu-nl.org is down01:07
Seeker`wasn't it down earlier01:08
jribwell, not down, but not a pastebin01:08
jribubottu is spewing bug info in #ubuntu01:17
ubottujrib: Error: "is" is not a valid command.01:17
mneptokjussio1: please disable all but LP bugtracking01:20
elky_workhe just needs to disable the plugin for those channels, but i dont know how01:22
tonyyarussoLjL: was the delta on that ubot5?01:39
LjLno, pastebin01:39
ubottupastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)01:41
jrib!pastebin =~ s/ubuntu-nl.org/ubuntu.com/01:41
ubottuIn #ubuntu-ops, jrib said: !pastebin =~ s/ubuntu-nl.org/ubuntu.com/01:41
LjLso he did01:41
LjL!pastebin =~ s/ubuntu-nl.org/ubuntu.com/01:42
ubottuI'll remember that LjL01:42
ubottupastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)01:45
ubot3In #ubuntu-us-ky, amirman84 said: !game is <alias> fun03:27
ubot3In #ubuntu-us-ky, amirman84 said: !graphics is <alias> xorg03:28
ubot3In #ubuntu-us-ky, amirman84 said: !office is <alias> openoffice03:31
jdongugh. terrible band.03:41
jdongstupid norwegian pop music03:41
Jucato(wait till you see Ken Lee in You Tube...)03:42
* Pici takes me on03:42
* Pici takes on me03:42
* mneptok is a cartoon!03:43
* mneptok is not a cartoon!03:43
* mneptok is a cartoon!03:43
* mneptok is not a cartoon!03:43
* Pici actually knows what mneptok is talking about03:43
MyrttiI do to03:44
Myrttiit's a great song and a great video and you should just shut up if you don't agree03:44
PiciWhomever ubottu belongs to, please set Hardy as the default release03:44
PiciI dont even know any other A-ha songs03:44
Jucatoit belongs to jussio1/jussi0103:44
Jucatoubot5 --> ubottu03:45
MyrttiPici: it's on his list03:45
PiciMyrtti: Okay 03:45
MyrttiI could do it too if I knew how03:45
Myrttithen again, jussio1 asked me to ask you would you like to have access to it03:46
MyrttiPici: ^03:46
mneptokplease don't.03:47
mneptoki'm now going to say this as directly and succinctly as i can.03:47
mneptokjussio1: i'm glad you're willing to help. but who runs and has access to what is a decision for the IRC and Community Councils.03:48
PiciI'm a bit out of the loop because I've been on vacation for the past few days, but I agree.03:48
* jdong gives Pici grammatical cookie of the day for correctly using whomever03:48
mneptokanything being done now may well be gone in 48 hours. we just don't know.03:48
Myrtti/me runs away03:48
Myrttiin the general direction of the shower03:49
stdinalthough that's true, it helps if more than one person knows how to administer/configure the bot, that's more clear now than ever03:49
mneptoki know IRC drama is addictive. pull the needle, please, before Jono has a f-ing coronary.03:50
Picijussio1 / jussi01: In case you can't find the config key, its @config channel #ubuntu plugins.encyclopedia.searchorder hardy03:50
mneptokstdin: please bear in mind that things got to where they did with Dennis because "eh, it mostly works. why pay any attention to it?"03:50
stdinPici: I doubt his apt database is up-to-date right now03:50
mneptokwe are setting ourselves up for the same thing all over again03:51
Picistdin: /me shrugs03:51
stdinmneptok: I know, I take this as a learning opportunity from past mistakes03:51
* Pici does not like internet drama03:51
mneptokright, so don;t set up stuff that allows the official teams to ignore this.03:52
mneptok"oh, there's a functioning bot now. things seem better. let's talk about this issue after Ibex drops."03:52
mneptokyadda yadda yadda03:52
mneptokthe flame got turened up under the CC and Jono. everything we do to replicate ubotu turns that flame lower.03:53
mneptokthink about that. ;)03:53
Myrtti!info console-tools03:53
ubottuconsole-tools: Linux console and font utilities. In component main, is important. Version 1:0.2.3dbs-65ubuntu3 (gutsy), package size 293 kB, installed size 908 kB03:53
mneptokand, as always, one man's opinion.03:54
stdinIMO the idea thing would be one "master" ubotu which several backups can sync from it, with the IRC council having access (preferably server access) to them all03:54
mneptokIMO, IRC bots are as much a piece of Ubuntu infrastructure as a wiki.03:54
mneptokand should be treated as such03:54
mneptoki.e. hosted in the datacenter03:55
stdinyep, and usually more used03:55
tonyyarussomneptok: that would be nice, but has been turned down.03:55
Myrtti[23:08] <+jussio1> nalioth, its there now.  http://jussi01.com/ubuntu.db03:55
Myrtti[23:11] <+jussio1> Myrtti: the jussi01.com one will always be up to date, as  its the actual one in use. 03:55
mneptoktonyyarusso: and it will continue to be as long as *someone else is hosting it*03:55
tonyyarussomneptok: huh?03:55
tonyyarussoYou mean we need to drop it altogether until they ask for it back?03:56
mneptoktonyyarusso: why should elmo allow it if someone else is already doing the heavy lifting?03:56
mneptokwhat leverage does Jono, the CC, or the IRC Council have?03:56
tonyyarussoSo yes, make them see a few days without.03:56
tonyyarussoInteresting idea.03:56
mneptokthere ya go, Pete. ;)03:56
mneptokit's puerile, but desperate times call for desperate measures.03:57
MyrttiI've seen people doing that myself03:57
MyrttiI've been coaxing people to do that twice myself succeeding in it03:57
mneptokand if we get what we want, a single person running the bot and providing access to their personal host will be a thing of the past03:57
Myrttiand I don't like the idea at all03:58
Myrttithere *HAS* to be some other way of doing it03:58
PiciIt doesnt really sound like 'the ubuntu way'03:59
tonyyarussoThing is, I've had a very negative experience dealing with services hosted in the Canonical DC, so I'm not even sure that would be a good thing.03:59
tonyyarussoGranted, given that ubotu doesn't really exist now, just a "temporary" replacement, it could be a decent time to ask again.04:00
Myrttiif we blackmail them with shutting down the bots, it's not them who are getting hurt, but us and the even more innocent irc users04:00
mneptokPici: /me will be having some convos with Jono, never fear04:01
mneptokthat's "The UBuntu Way" ;)04:01
Myrttiand I'm more afraid of the humble workers, the doers of the hard work, those like bazhang and ikonia, who are on #ubuntu all the time helping people04:01
Myrttithey're the ones whos head would explode04:01
MyrttiI don't think we can afford that04:02
tonyyarussoWell, we have little choice really.  A grand total of zero of our other options are really reliable.04:02
tonyyarussoAt best, they are as good as what we had, and at worst, not.04:02
mneptokpersonally, i think it's time for some far longer discussions about IRC with the CC04:03
Myrttiyes, it is04:03
mneptokif i was sabdfl, there would be some changes made, and quick04:03
tonyyarussomneptok: care to elaborate?04:04
mneptoke.g. all #ubuntu* namespace channels are +m. when you join, ChanServ sends you links to the CoC and IRC guidelines. after 60 seconds you get your +v.04:04
mneptokthe !coc and !language factoids become irrelevant. you should already know.04:05
mneptokadd a badwords list with an insta-ban04:05
mneptok*that* would make doers-of0hard-work heads explode. with delight.04:05
tonyyarussoYou _do_ know that most users aren't bright enough to notice a link sent by chanserv, and would just sit there wondering why nobody was replying, right?  (since they wouldn't notice the "can't send to channel" either)04:06
mneptoks/know/care/.  and no, i don't.04:07
mneptokif you can;t see a big tab open in your IRC client with a red "CHanServ" nickname, you're an idiot.04:07
mneptokmost users aren;t bright enough to read the !coc factoid when it's sent to them. so we waste time sending URLs that are not read, then eventually banning.04:08
mneptokif someone doesn't notice, and gets banned, they'll prolly pay more attention when their ban expires.04:09
mneptokif they don't, they do not learn from mistakes, and prolly don't belong on the Internet, never mind Linux. >:)04:09
mneptokok, </rant>. me go home.04:14
Myrttiicanhas: what would you have on your mind today?04:16
icanhasMyrtti: it seems i strolled into the wrong place :) so sorry.04:18
elky_workmneptok, and as i said to you yesterday, unfortunately we are 'Linux for Human Beings', not 'Linux for Civilised, Intelligent and Polite Human Beings04:18
gnomefreakanyone remember the command to add info to changelog automaticly info= package name line and personal named line04:38
ubottuJordan_U called the ops in #ubuntu05:09
tonyyarussognomefreak: debchange05:12
mneptokelky_work: there's nothing that says a human being can;t wait 60 seconds05:12
gnomefreaktonyyarusso: its not dch anymore?05:12
gnomefreaki will test it once i fix permission issues tomorrow thank you tonyyarusso :)05:13
tonyyarussognomefreak: dch is a symlink to it05:13
gnomefreakah ok do i need any args for debchange?05:16
tonyyarussono idea05:17
gnomefreakbrb smoke hopefully ill be too tired to be up much longer or this would be night #4 that i havent slept and i rarely take namps during the day05:18
gnomefreaktonyyarusso: ill man it tomorrow thank you much05:18
stdindch with no args should just add a entry (like dch -a), dch -i increments the release number and dch -e lets you edit the changelog05:19
* stdin has used dch a few times05:19
gnomefreakstdin: thanks i used it but since i was gone so long i have to re-remeber some things05:32
stdinI use it whenever I backport the KDE4 packages, so I'm quite used to it05:33
Myrttia very, very, very very VERY tired myrtti http://myrtti.fi/cam/07:52
tonyyarussoMyrtti: looks light out - stay up until morning?07:54
Myrttiyeah, had one hour of sleep07:55
MyrttiI feel like stoned07:55
Myrttibetter than before the nap though07:55
tonyyarussoheh, I'll bet07:55
Myrttioh good, the suse logo doesn't show07:55
tonyyarussoBe thankful I didn't screencap you nearly picking your nose too.07:56
MyrttiI was probably rubbing my face07:56
tonyyarussosomething like that07:56
tonyyarussoWhat camera do you have, and were there any Linux compatibility issues?07:56
Myrttiand oh yeah, it's pollen time so I probably do have an itchy nose07:56
tonyyarussoI wouldn't mind having such a thing at some point.07:56
Myrttioh, it's builtin laptop one07:57
Myrttino compatibility issues whatsoever07:57
tonyyarussoI take it the updating image thing is b/c you don't have the bandwidth to stream?07:57
tonyyarussowhat laptop?07:57
MyrttiAcer Aspire 310007:57
Myrttithe updating thing is because it's a dirty hack07:57
Myrttithe pictures are uploaded to the server with sshfs07:58
Myrttiand they probably aren't in sync at all07:58
Myrttiand the page itself is written with nano by me07:58
Myrttimjpg_streamer is the software07:59
Myrtticamera is uvc something08:00
Myrttitonyyarusso: if you're looking for a camera, I heard some of the camera/headphone packages skype sells are linux compatible08:00
MyrttiI've got one waiting for me to build a Guinea Pig Cam08:01
tonyyarussoWell, it's not at the top of the purchase list, but I'll keep that in mind.08:02
Myrttigod I look exactly what I am. A bloated, sweatty, smelly, dirty, tired nerd.08:02
tonyyarussoRight now I'm looking to expand my portable audio player collection, along with some better earbuds.08:02
Myrttiearbuds are great on the theoretical side08:02
Myrttithe practice is different08:02
tonyyarussoI'm only really the last one right now - just showered, and while I put on some weight over the winter, that really only brings me towards the realm of normal sized.08:03
tonyyarussoMyrtti: explain?08:03
Myrttiyours truly has managed to break three pairs skullcandy earbudz (whatever) and a pair of koss the plugs08:03
Myrttiat it's best I broke skullcandies forthnightly08:04
Myrttitook month and a half to break kosses08:04
Myrttiwhen the one's I've got now break, I'm switching to some other design paradigm08:04
tonyyarussowhat sort of breakage?08:05
tonyyarusso(actually, I guess technically what I'm looking for are called "canal" whatevers rather than earbuds)08:05
Myrttiits always that other one goes mute08:05
MyrttiI imagine the reason might be that I've got really tight ear canals and I really have to jam them in08:06
Myrttithey're great as long as they work08:06
tonyyarussoI'm looking at various kinds with silicone tip thingies that are supposed to work without jamming things in so tight.08:08
Hobbseejussi01: it's broken, though08:09
tonyyarussoTurns out these things are friggin' expensive though.08:10
tonyyarussoBose sells a pair for $99, and Ultimate Ears has ones over a thousand if you're insane.08:11
Myrtti!msgthebot =~ s/ubotu/ubottu/08:11
ubottuNothing changed there08:11
ubottuPlease investigate with me only in /msg or in #ubuntu-bots (type also /msg ubotu Bot). Don't use commands in the public channels if you don't know if they really exist. Also avoid adding joke/useless factoids.08:11
Myrttiok, time to turn the camera off for a while ;-)08:13
* Hobbsee agrees with mneptok, though08:13
Hobbseewhat if jussi01 gets hit by a bus?08:19
Hobbseehey look, the infrastructure went bang again.08:19
MyrttiHobbsee: as it might look like we're building a permanent infrastructure here, I for one acknowledge that this isn't meant to be such08:20
MyrttiHobbsee: the way I see it, it has to be robust and permanent-looking enough to make us survive until a better solution is found08:21
HobbseeMyrtti: it'll get found faster the less people spend effort on it now :P08:21
Hobbseegood part of the cycle, though08:21
HobbseeMyrtti: at least this way, something should actually get done.08:23
Hobbseeit's a pity things have to get to crisis point before people will react, though08:23
MyrttiHobbsee: I disagree with both you and mneptok about the "less" thing though, as I said yesterday08:23
Hobbseewouldn't like to see jono actually having a heart attack or something from it, though.08:24
MyrttiI've done my share of blackmailing the apes climbing higher on the tree and I don't want to do it again08:24
Hobbseeblackmail?  don't know if i'd call it that08:24
Myrttimy arms hurt08:26
Myrttiand the thing is no matter how much effort we put into making the system as robust and permanent-looking as we can, we can never get it to be more robust than it was three days ago as long as the main bots are run by a single person08:27
MyrttiI think that has already been proven, there's no reason to slack on the effort of making the system as fool proof as we can with these resources, which do not actually diffrentiate from the one we had few days ago08:28
Hobbseethat wasn't robust.  that didn't have a working bantracker, and we were screwed if seveas wasn't around.08:28
Myrttithe basics haven't changed08:28
MyrttiHobbsee: s/three days/anytime it was in "perfect" working condition of its best/08:29
Myrttiand as you said, wasn't robust08:30
Myrttiqed, point proven, we need A Great Big Instance to support the infrastructure08:30
Myrtti"as robust and permanent-looking _as we can_"08:31
Hobbseejust don't make it permanent enough that canonical IS can ignore it indefinetly.08:32
ubottuI am ubottu, standing in for ubotu while he's getting his haircut done, nose powdered, updated and transitioned to his new, gorgeous looks in the near future ;)08:33
Myrttithat's exactly the reason I'm against renaming our stand-in bots as ubotus08:34
Myrttiand exactly the reason why all the features should't be enables08:34
Hobbseeahhh, right, so you're not aiming for that.  good08:34
Myrttithe transition phase should be as invisible as it can for the normal users08:35
Myrttithat's why I'm aiming for robustness and fool-proof and so on08:35
Myrttiso in case jussio1 kicks the bucket while we're waiting for the deus ex machinae, we won't be screwed and ***-***ked all over again08:36
Hobbseei almost have root access on that machine, too08:37
Hobbseebut yeah08:37
Myrttiif jono et al want proof on how vulnerable the system is, all we need to do is to mute the bots totally on all the channels when they want proof08:37
Myrttibut our heads would explode with the amount of complaints if we systematically refused the bots all the time08:38
Hobbseethe bots not being there at all is more effective.08:38
Myrttithe method of exampling the effect is free of choice08:39
tonyyarussoBetter yet, have jono /nick ubotu and put it on hilight :)08:42
* Hobbsee snorts08:42
Hobbseemaybe put jono on a highlight for every few commands08:43
Myrttijust as long we don't make the users the guinea pigs for $time08:43
MyrttiI don't know if I made any sense there, but I hope it explained what I think of the situation08:45
Myrttiok, now I'm REALLY off to the shower where I was going to when I shut down the webcam08:46
Myrttiand for that matter, we should track down *all* the bots we're using "officially" and show that the problem isn't only one bot. but that I guess was already kindof said.08:56
MyrttiIf I get really bored, I might write an email to the list about my opinions09:17
jussio1Good morning all10:33
jussio1Hobbsee: whats broken?10:34
Hobbseejussio1: permissions10:34
MezHobbsee, has anyone actually tried talking to canonical of late regarding this10:48
Mezalso - apparently the ubuntu-eu guys dont mind hosting ubotu10:49
Mez<Nafallo> Mez: the ubuntu-eu guys already offered to host it in #ubuntu-locoteams the other day.10:49
HobbseeMez: unsure.10:49
HobbseeMez: i don't have connections into IS10:49
jussio1Is there going to be some sort of meeting with the relevant people about this?10:51
Hobbseei presume so, but i know no details.10:51
MezHobbsee/anyone, you have any objections to me poking sabdfl regarding this?10:52
HobbseeMez: none at all.10:52
jussio1I think thats the _first_ thing we need to do!10:52
Mezhe doesn't seem to mind talking to me for some reason10:53
MezI've just pinged him10:53
Hobbseeget him in here?10:53
Mezjust pinged him to ask him to lemme know when he has a little time to talk10:54
jussio1yeah, get him to join here. 10:54
Mezwait until he responds first10:55
MezNafallo, you said something about ubuntu-eu and ubotu ?11:13
NafalloMez: yes. there was a conversation between Seveas and yann2 (I think it was him) some days ago where they offered hosting the bot and also asked for the logbots to be integrated into it.11:15
Mezah, *sighs*11:16
jussio1stdin: that was interesting?11:16
stdinjussio1: yeah, strange11:16
* jussio1 sighs...11:20
MyrttiYay for headaches11:21
elkbuntuMez, he doesnt mind talking to anybody, to be quite frank.11:23
Mezelkbuntu, yes, indeed :D11:24
Mez(which is a great thing imo)11:24
elkbuntuit is. he holds no particular people in any special regard. it's nice.11:25
jussio1ok, Im kinda frustrated at other stuff here, bit worried Ill take it out wrong. someone might want to have a look into #ubuntu and keep an eye... bit ot and stuff. 11:26
Mezelkbuntu, I'm sure he does hold some people in special regard (mjg, elmo, all his staff, etc etc)11:31
MezI dont know why I picked mjg and elmo though, those were just the first names that came to mind :P11:34
persiaHi.  If there are any bot wranglers about, it would be handy to have a bot responding to bug numbers with URLs in #ubuntu-bugs.  Of course, if there's a reason this doesn't work today, thanks for your efforts, and no rush.11:50
elkbuntuMez, they're the most entertaining11:50
Mezelkbuntu, probably true :D11:50
elkbuntujussi01, if you're still within arm's reach of your computer... ^^11:50
MyrttiI just love you all. Feel loved. Huge hug.11:53
* Mez takes the bong away from Myrtti :P11:55
stdinI don't think the bug reporting is something you can do easily, looking at the config it needs an IMAP account to get bug emails11:56
stdincertainly nothing else obvious in the config that has to do with printing new bugs11:56
jussio1If there are any staff about, some sort of cloak and a relaxation of the channel limit for ubottu would be nice. 11:56
Mezjussi01, can't it use the old ubotu password?11:57
jussio1Mez: possibly, if we knew it...11:57
naliothit's fine11:57
MyrttiTheres been so much positive energy going on from my point of view. Peeps helping each other, etc11:58
* Mez hugs Myrtti back11:58
jussio1nalioth: ? what is fine?12:00
naliothjussio1: ubottu and his thousand channels12:01
jussio1nalioth: ahh. thank you :)12:01
MyrttiI know positive feedback keeps me going, so in case some is running low on their hug-o-meter, dont, You are all doing excellent job.12:02
* jussio1 huggles Myrtti12:03
AmaranthWho is running the bot again?13:46
Hobbseejussio1: 13:46
AmaranthI need a bot to camp in #ubuntu-release-party13:46
Hobbseesomehow, my account on that server is borkened.13:46
AmaranthAlso, I need someone to give me back access to #ubuntu+113:47
Hobbseeoh dear.  rtorrent finally crashed.13:47
AmaranthSeveas apparently took my access when he closed the channel and 'forgot' to give it back13:48
PriceChildAmaranth: wait... why was it removed when it was closed?13:49
AmaranthBecause I was being funny and rejoining the channel13:49
AmaranthNot that it mattered, no one else was there13:49
PriceChildah so he was just being funny too13:49
Hobbseedied 21 hours ago :(13:49
AmaranthBut I think he planned on leaving it off until he reopened the channel :P13:50
naliothwhy do you need a bot in #u-r-p ?13:51
elkbuntuhe's joking... i *think*13:53
naliothwhich is why i'm asking13:54
elkbuntuHobbsee:# Incoming: 7.70 GB13:55
elkbuntu# Outgoing: 153 GB13:55
elkbuntu# Total: 161 GB13:55
elkbuntuYou have used13:55
elkbuntuof your monthly transfer. 13:55
wgrantelkbuntu: Not a bad effort.13:55
Hobbseeelkbuntu: i'm sitting at 167mb - 84%13:56
Hobbseestill a reasonable # on the trackers, though13:56
wgrantHobbsee: That sounds like an Optus plan.13:56
elkbuntuwgrant, indeed. Hobbsee and i combined have managed to churn out 161+167gb13:56
Hobbseewgrant: oh?13:56
elkbuntuwgrant, linodes13:56
wgrantelkbuntu: I'm aware.13:56
elkbuntuthen what sounds like an optus plan?13:57
wgrantHobbsee: You said MB rather than GB. Only Optus and Telstra could ever have such low limits.13:57
* elkbuntu reads up13:57
Hobbseeoh, gah.13:57
* Hobbsee meant GB :P13:57
* elkbuntu checks the rtorrent screen session13:58
elkbuntuit's still churning it out13:58
* wgrant only seeded a bit over 2GiB this release.13:59
wgrantBut 256kbps upstream doesn't go far :(13:59
elkbuntuwgrant, yeah, that's about all i've ever seeded, i have a decent income now and can afford a yummy linode14:00
elkbuntuit's been great fun for both hobbsee and i14:01
Hobbseehehe, yeah ;)14:01
Amaranthnalioth: I want a bot in #ubuntu-release-party so the modes will stick14:02
elkbuntuwhich reminds me, i need to renew14:02
HobbseeAmaranth: set the modes?14:02
Hobbseeelkbuntu: isn't it direct debit?14:02
AmaranthThey go away when everyone leaves14:02
AmaranthThen the first person to join gets in14:02
elkbuntuHobbsee, i only did a month, i wanna pay the year out now while the american dollar is worthless14:02
naliothAmaranth: look.14:02
PiciAmaranth: set gaurd on so chanserv sits in there14:02
Hobbseeelkbuntu: that's what i did too14:02
AmaranthPici: Can't, I don't have access :P14:03
Hobbseeelkbuntu: even so, i thought it was a montly direct debit.14:03
* Amaranth is not the council14:03
AmaranthAlso, when are we going to reopen #ubuntu+1? When UDS starts?14:03
elkbuntunalioth, can you do the usual between-release locking of #u-r-p please14:04
HobbseeAmaranth: sometime after it's usable.14:04
Hobbseelike, vaguely usable.14:04
naliothelkbuntu: it's all been done14:04
elkbuntuthen what is Amaranth harping on about?14:04
AmaranthHobbsee: We can't wait for alpha 114:04
naliothelkbuntu: he's not looked in the past few minutes14:05
HobbseeAmaranth: yes we can14:05
AmaranthHobbsee: You realize that's the middle of June, right?14:05
PiciIts been less than a week since the last release14:06
Hobbseeno, but your point?14:06
AmaranthRight, but Hobbsee wants to leave it closed for 2 months14:06
Hobbseei said vaguely usable.  i didn't specify a time, iirc.14:06
elkbuntuAmaranth, i hope you're being facetious atm14:06
DavieyIs it really a problem if it just /stays/ open?14:06
naliothDaviey: yes14:06
Amaranthelkbuntu: No, not really14:07
elkbuntuDaviey, you can sit in there and deal with all the dopies if you really want14:07
AmaranthWe should open it sometime during UDS14:07
HobbseeDaviey: yes, it is.14:07
HobbseeAmaranth: why?14:07
elkbuntuAmaranth, traditionally it opens when the toolchain is out and usable, or so i thought14:07
AmaranthHobbsee: Because that's probably when people will start jumping on14:08
Amaranthelkbuntu: That'll be before UDS even then14:08
naliothelkbuntu: yes14:08
elkbuntuAmaranth, see, you're making a fuss over nothing.14:08
AmaranthBut I want a place where I can discuss the finer points of a broken libstdc++ with informed users. :)14:10
AmaranthAlthough #ubuntu+1 has lacked informed users for the last two releases :/14:11
ikoniaAmaranth: if you find that channel....let me know please14:11
* Pici shrugs14:11
elkbuntuinformed users... internet... are you two on crack?14:12
Hobbseeelkbuntu: they used to exist in there14:13
ikoniathey did14:13
ikonianow its "hi, I just installed the alpha and compiz won't work...I NEED this to work for my business now HELP!"14:13
elkbuntuyeah, that channel does need an iq test at times. pity about the whole CoC thing.14:14
elkbuntualthough, it would fit under being respectful and courteous to those who belong in +114:14
ikoniato be honest, it needs some guys to sit in it and enforce the topic (in my view)14:14
AmaranthIt's because we don't have daniels to break X once a week anymore14:15
ikoniathe topic is quite clear14:15
PiciI find +1 to be informed enough to not need hand-holding for troubleshooting up until about the last alpha14:15
ikoniait's beta, it's for development/support not for someone who is a new user wanting to show off compiz with a hardy graphic14:15
ikoniaPici: I think thats the key that changed14:15
ikoniaPici: it used to be full of people running +1 for worthwhile reasons14:15
ikonianow it's almost a kudos card to be l33t or an ill advised move for someone who wants the latest package version14:15
Piciikonia: I think it just part of the process of becoming a more popular distro14:16
Hobbseeelkbuntu: i like mneptok's ideas.14:16
AmaranthWe would discuss how daniels made our life miserable this week and swap fixes14:16
ikoniaPici: I concur with that14:16
elkbuntuikonia, or someone who's been banned from the rest of the ubuntu channels...14:16
ikoniaPici: I would like to see it enforced a bit more in terms of the topic/spirit of progressing +1 in a worthwhile manner14:16
ikoniaelkbuntu: or that too.....14:16
elkbuntuhow about we in this convo here and now resolve to do just that.14:17
elkbuntuwe keep -motu and -devel relatively clean, +1 should be as clean as those14:17
ikoniaI find -motu very valuable and devel when needed, I'd love to see it like that14:17
ikonia(but thats only a personal preference)14:17
AmaranthI just ignore questions from people who obviously have no idea what they're doing14:17
ikoniaAmaranth: it runis the flow of a worthwhile discussion and the nitty grittyness of the channel14:18
ikonia(again my view only)14:18
AmaranthThey'll give up and reinstall the stable version or they'll learn and be someone we want in there14:18
ikoniaAmaranth: I disagree on that14:18
elkbuntuAmaranth, the problem is that ignoring those people does little as they dont lack the patience to tolerate being ignored14:18
ikoniathe last two releases have been pester tha channel until they get what they want14:18
elkbuntuyeah, what ikonia said14:19
Amaranthi don't even talk in there much anymore14:19
ikoniaAmaranth: I don't any more, which is a shame14:19
ikoniait was a real value added channel14:19
Amaranthunless i'm talking to RAOF or crdlb14:19
ikoniait's a tough line to walk, 14:20
elkbuntuHobbsee, can you work on finding someone to throw in a few extra X breakages? :)14:20
* Hobbsee could upload X?14:20
AmaranthI think I could get bryce to break every other upload :)14:20
elkbuntuHobbsee, just let kmos upload X :)14:21
* Pici is reminded of the 'how do you check bugfixes' comment14:21
PiciI'm not sure how we can dissuade people from using +1 as a general support channel besides the warnings we already put in the channel topic14:22
elkbuntuHobbsee, you may now stop laughing.14:22
* Hobbsee stab elkbuntu14:22
HobbseePici: now, i *had* managed to forget that one.14:22
elkbuntuPici, dont underestimate the value of their GUI going byebye14:22
HobbseePici: although i thought the question today about "so, how do i modify debian/control" was also good.14:23
* elkbuntu blinks14:24
Hobbsee(from coolbhavi)14:24
ikoniaI think your going to have an issue with kcaj in #ubuntu shortly14:25
* Pici watches14:27
* Hobbsee blinks14:37
Hobbsee[23:36] <Kcaj> Is there an easy way to edit cron?14:37
Hobbsee[23:36] <-- mikeok has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).14:37
Hobbsee[23:36] <Kcaj> I only need it for cron jobs14:37
Hobbseewhat, exactly, does he expect it to be used for, *other* than cron jobs?14:37
ikoniaas I suggested, I think you may have pain coming14:37
elkbuntuHobbsee, norc jobs of course14:38
Hobbseeelkbuntu: oh.  of course.14:39
ikoniaPici: sorry, I thought he was going to try the tell the guy struggling with lilo to use the windows disk14:40
Piciikonia: I have no idea who he was talking to, just looked like randomness to me14:40
ikoniathe guy I was with was struggling with lilo on the mbr....I smelt a trap again14:40
popeyuhm, I've just read back and I can't see the _actual_ reason +1 is closed, I know it's done every release, just can't see why14:56
popeyand why there's such opposition to opening it back up again14:56
naliothpopey: it is done so that it doesn't become #ubuntu_14:56
naliothit is done so that there is a definite state of "this is for developers of the next release"14:57
naliothpopey: are you not familiar with backup nicks such as nalioth_ or popey_   ?14:57
popeyhow is there ambiguity on that score?14:58
Jack_Sparrowpopey +1 signifies the NEXT release, Hardy is no longer the next release it is the current release14:58
popeysorry, i just saw #ubuntu_ and wondered if you'd mistyped14:58
naliothif it stayed open with no code, newbs and others would just use it for current support14:59
PiciIs Intrepid in such a state where #ubuntu+1 would even be necessary? 14:59
Hobbseepopey: mainly, because people can't read the topic, and so keep asking for hardy support in there.  happened for gutsy too.14:59
Picifilo1234: How can we help you?14:59
popeyPici: yes, it's under development!14:59
popeythere are specs that would be good to discuss in there14:59
popeygauge interest, collaborate etc14:59
naliothpopey: there are better channels to discuss specs and such15:00
popeybefore UDS of course when they get discussed at length15:00
popeysuch as?15:00
PiciI like hearing good reasons, like those, instead of just 'because.'15:00
nalioth-motu ?15:00
nalioth-dev ?15:00
Hobbseenow, members of the irc council....15:00
Hobbseewould it be wrong to ask why the mails that have hit the list do not match with the archives versions?15:00
popeyHobbsee: yeah, I couldn't understand that15:01
HobbseeI've had 2 mails of mien pass through that address, but they're not on the web interface.15:01
popeynalioth: I disagree, some specs aren't in a state where developers can comment15:01
popeyneed input from users15:01
HobbseePriceChild: what's the story?  You appear to be the list admin.15:02
elkbuntuHobbsee, i was personally unaware there was an issue15:02
elkbuntualthough i'd begger a guess at the mod queue15:02
popeythe first mail in the thread never made it to the archive for example15:02
Hobbseeelkbuntu: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2008-April/15:02
Hobbseeelkbuntu: i've written two mails, neither of which show up, sent directly to seveas and the irc council.15:03
Hobbseeer, ubuntu-irc15:03
PriceChildHobbsee: I thought that was odd also.. when I saw it earlier I figured it perhaps needed time to get itself sorted. I wonder if CCs aren't lsited for some reason?15:03
Hobbseethey're showing as being to the right address.15:04
elkbuntuHobbsee, as i said... -ENOCLUE and -EPOKETHEMODMORE15:04
HobbseePriceChild: it wasn't a CC.  And no other list appears to have this problem.15:04
elkbuntuthat said, i havent had any irc or council mail today15:05
Hobbseewas only rich's mail there today.15:06
Hobbsee7.36am local time15:06
PriceChildelkbuntu: just approved Hobbsee's latest mail15:06
elkbuntuHobbsee, there you go15:06
HobbseePriceChild: so, why was it being held up in the mod queue, if it had already been sent to those people on the listA?15:07
elkbuntuHobbsee, need you anything more than the word "Mailman"?15:07
Hobbseeelkbuntu: i admin a few lists of that.  i've not seen such an option?15:07
PriceChildHobbsee: what has been held up in mod queue?15:07
elkbuntuHobbsee, mailman does weird and wonderful things all the time15:08
* Hobbsee wonders exactly what mail PriceChild just approved, seeing as her two had already been received back15:08
HobbseePriceChild: they're still not appearing on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2008-April/15:08
PriceChildHobbsee: i just approved your mail to irc-council15:08
HobbseePriceChild: oh, thanks.15:08
HobbseePriceChild: dunno why they haven't kept you guys on the CC.15:09
PriceChildI think perhaps I should add people to the auto-approve queue on there when they send one sane message..15:09
PriceChilddoes catch a reasonable amount of spam though.15:09
HobbseePriceChild: dennis' original mail isn't on the archives page of ubuntu-irc either.  what gives?15:09
elkbuntuPriceChild, for non-busy lists it's usually advisable15:09
elkbuntuHobbsee, i'd chance it being mailman being dicky, and will probably require someone harrassing a sysadmin to figure wtf15:10
Mez-> mailman@lists.ubuntu.com ;)15:11
* Hobbsee also thought it used to be there before.15:11
PriceChildHobbsee: I have no idea. I can't delete archives... once a mail is sent and accepted then sent through, afaik it should be there.15:11
Mezyeah, mailing list owners dont have power over the archives. only the sysadmins unfortunately 15:11
DavieyThe original mail wasn't on the archive 15:12
HobbseePriceChild: would you mind contacting IS about it please?  Having a full log is generally a good idea.15:14
Hobbseecanonical sysadmins.15:14
DavieycanonIcal sySadmin15:14
Hobbseei assume they might want it for the meetings.15:15
PriceChildDaviey: :)15:15
PriceChildThe rt address?15:15
MezPriceChild, for issues regarding mailing lists, the quickest way to get the issue to the right place is to email mailman@lists.ubuntu.com15:16
PriceChilduuu shiny15:16
Mez(which shoves it into the right RT queue automatically)15:16
PriceChildok will do that then?15:16
elkbuntuMez, ask the nearest canadian how trustworthy RT is15:20
elkbuntumeanwhile, im off to bed15:21
Mezelkbuntu, I just asked Mike... and he says he likes it15:21
PriceChildjust found my request for joins/parts/removes/kicks/modes to be readded into it also, assigned 'General' and left :/15:22
PriceChild*into irclogs.15:23
jpatrickPriceChild: I talked to a sysadmin about that, he said he'd pass it on to the guy in charge of the bot...15:26
LjLhello bazhang17:03
bazhanghello LjL17:04
LjLbazhang will have a crack at being an op in #ubuntu, any doubts on irc commands, ask17:05
bazhangthanks very much LjL17:06
* jussio1 wonders if bazhang is cold... Id imagine without a cloak he is ;)17:07
Picibazhang: What irc client do you use?17:07
jussio1NOTICE: ubottu will be restarted in a few moments. with any luck it should be back in a matter of seconds/minutes17:08
jpatrickbazhang: welcome! (at last)17:08
Mezjussi01, I believe he needs to be a member first ?17:09
gnomefreakjussio1: cae back fast to mozilla channel17:09
Mezand bazhang uses konversation17:10
jussio1Mez: still he can have a unaffiliated one17:10
naliothMez: nope17:10
bazhangwow ;)17:10
Meznalioth, I assumed that jussi01 meant an ubuntu cloak17:10
naliothanyone can be an op, so long as they can demonstrate prior insanity  :P17:11
Hobbseenalioth: i object.17:11
Hobbseenalioth: clueful insanity, please.17:12
jpatrickHobbsee: I thought you went to bed?17:12
Hobbseenalioth: or only some forms of insanity.17:12
Hobbseejpatrick: i appear to have failed so far.17:12
Hobbseejpatrick: the light is off.  doe sthat count?17:12
jpatrickhmm, /me needs rest too17:13
jussio1Ok, sorry for the interuptions people, the bot will be down again for a moment. 17:20
Picijussio1: What are you doing that requires actually shutting down the bot?17:24
Myrttihey look, even I'm an op.17:32
MyrttiProves that everyone is clearly out of their minds17:33
bazhangsorry all--just getting the rundown17:33
bazhangthanks LjL17:33
naliothbazhang: if you stand still too long, you'll get it17:33
bazhangthanks nalioth17:34
naliothbazhang: --- rundown17:35
bazhangnalioth: oh haha17:35
naliothyou guys, do you have 'morick' doing weird stuff in any channels?  ( i'm in #kubuntu-offtopic poking it )17:37
Picinalioth: someone in #freenode was just complaining about it actaully.17:37
LjLnalioth: he's not in any channels i'm it except it, but p17:37
LjLyes, that17:38
naliothPici: yes, that is why i'm looking into it17:38
Picinalioth: o17:38
LjLi think you've stopped looking into it17:38
naliothand now it's taken care of17:38
Amaranthjussi01: Can we get ubottu in #ubuntu-desktop?17:38
LjLwait, is that still tobmaif?17:38
LjLhm, java user... nah17:39
jussio1ubottu: join #ubuntu-desktop17:39
jussio1Amaranth: ^ got it now?17:39
jussio1YW :)17:39
jpatrickubottu: make me a cup of tea17:48
ubottujpatrick: Error: "make" is not a valid command.17:48
LjLyou need to run ./configure first, silly17:49
* jpatrick thinks he should of said "please"17:49
ubottuOfficial channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/18:56
* ompaul looks at the topic and gets a funny feeling of dejavous18:56
ompaulall over again18:56
Nafalloah bot! :-)18:57
Picino, u bot18:57
bazhangso no 'op' ing in here?18:58
stdinjust like in #ubuntu, you only op when you need to18:58
bazhangthanks stdin18:58
stdinthough we all get a nice shiny +v :)18:59
bazhangtime to read up on all this :)18:59
stdinbesides, you can't op, you only have level 5, like me 19:00
* ompaul growls at wiki uploading time19:00
bazhangstdin: so level one is just a meagre few?19:00
stdintake a look at "/msg chanserv access #ubuntu-ops list" and "/msg chanserv level #ubuntu-ops list" for what the levels can do19:01
stdinbasically level 5 here means you get auto-voiced19:01
bazhangthanks stdin19:01
ompaulpropose opening +1 20:05
PriceChildHmmm need a job.20:31
MezPriceChild, no comment20:33
MyrttiPriceChild: welcome to Finland20:36
Myrttinumber of polarbears: 020:38
Myrttiwe have 3 (three) polar bears.20:38
Myrttithey're in a zoo, but who counts.20:39
MezMyrtti, lol *hugs*20:40
Mezrandom as hell - nice to see some light-heartedness in here20:40
Myrtti/me contemplates on kicking the webcam on20:41
* Mez nominates Myrtti as the official Ubuntu IRC team Cheerleader20:41
Myrttiwoo \o/20:41
Mezbzr init --dirstate-tagas20:42
Meztyped wrong command in wrong window20:42
ompaulMez, and not for the last time most likely .... ;-)20:43
* ompaul runs around in circles20:43
Mezompaul, I always do it...20:43
MezIt's cause of too many monitors20:43
* Mez needs focus follows brain20:43
ompaulMez, please upgrade to brain 1.0120:44
Mezsudo apt-get install brain=1.0120:44
ompaulyou can't even patch the one you have atm :)20:44
ompaulpin up your brain ;-)20:44
MezError: no package "brain" was found20:44
PriceChildMez: hmm? :)20:45
MezI walked in to: <PriceChild> Hmmm need a job.20:45
jdongMez: he's considering a career in adult entertainment.20:45
* Mez was thinking he was on about another kind of job20:46
* Mez sighs20:46
PriceChildYeah... I've been running a few ideas past jdong.20:46
MezPriceChild, well, you've got the right man there *hands jdong back his pimp hat*20:46
Davieyi'd pay £10 to watch a pole dance by PriceChild 20:46
PriceChildMez: what kind of job?20:46
MezDaviey, hehe... see /msg20:46
PriceChildDaviey: is it the hair that does it for you?20:46
jdongPriceChild: what hair where?20:47
* jdong winces20:47
PriceChildOi! stop talking about your fantasies about me in private Mez!!!20:47
MezPriceChild, *chuckles*20:47
* Mez composes an email20:47
DavieyMez: That is rude, and how did you take those photos?20:47
PriceChildI did wonder why the webcam light went on those times..20:47
jdongPriceChild: s/(in) (private)/\2 \1/20:47
jdongfixed it for you.20:47
PriceChildjdong: how rude!!! :O20:48
* Mez pastes Daviey a copy of the email he just sent20:49
LjLjdong: and you win the Laziest Regex Award, too20:52
MezLjL, nah, I won it when half asleep the other day20:53
Mezoh, no20:53
LjLwell, that's... half asleep, not lazy20:54
MezLjL, true ;)20:55
Mezbut the i made all the difference20:55
Myrttioh dear21:14
MyrttiI was talking to Nafallo and LjL in Swedish in -irc and thought I might say something about the webcam to Mez here21:14
Myrttitook me a while to realise trying to tell it to Mez in Swedish is probably useless21:15
Myrttiand I even started to tell that ^ in Swedish21:16
MezMyrtti, specially as my swedish friend is currently afk21:16
MezMyrtti, it's very red - and no smiles :(21:16
Mezwell, orange21:16
MyrttiMiia Ranta, mental adjustment: FAIL21:16
Mezyou're going for the ubuntu theme arent you21:16
NafalloMez: I'm not AFK ;-)21:16
MezNafallo, ok, my Swedish colleahe21:17
Mezand Nafallo I thought you lived in London/21:17
NafalloMez: well yea... that doesn't really change where I came from :-)21:17
MezNafallo, hmmles21:17
Myrttioh hell. I'm now thinking in swedish21:17
Myrtti/me slaps forehead21:18
Nafallovictory is mine! :-)21:18
Myrtti/me contemplates on turning the laptop camera around on it's hinges and show MOM21:20
Myrttiprobably too lowsy lighting21:20
Mezget a torch21:21
MyrttiI hate allergies21:22
* Mez throws somethign at Myrtti 21:31
mohihi :)21:54
mohiwhere is ubotu? :D21:54
ubottuI am ubottu, standing in for ubotu while he's getting his haircut done, nose powdered, updated and transitioned to his new, gorgeous looks in the near future ;)21:54
Myrttianything else?21:56
mohiMyrtti: doesnt ubottu comes to other channels?21:56
Myrttiit will probably never be on all the same channels ubotu was in21:56
Myrttibut it's on a few, we try not to load it too much yet, and besides, he's only a stand-in21:57
Myrttiwhat channel in particular did you have on your mind?21:57
mohiaha.. ok! ty Myrtti21:58
mohiMyrtti: ubuntu-ir21:58
MyrttiI'm not sure it's on uk either ;-)21:58
mohioH! :D21:58
Myrttiit's on au21:58
Myrttioh well.21:59
mohiok. :)21:59
Nafallo"nose powdered" *ASG*21:59
mohiGoodLuck friends :)21:59
Myrttidid it appea...21:59
NafalloMyrtti: asgarv == lol in Swedish ;-)22:00
RyanPriorWhat happened to ubotu?23:37
ubottuI am ubottu, standing in for ubotu while he's getting his haircut done, nose powdered, updated and transitioned to his new, gorgeous looks in the near future ;)23:47

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