=== ubottu is now known as ubotuu
=== ubotuu is now known as ubottu
mohamed_hello all, i have strange behaviour with network :)00:27
mohamed_i have one eth card and wlan  at the same pc ...00:27
mohamed_when eth connected wlan working if i disconnect eth0 wlan stop working00:28
soulcso should one upgrade to 8.04 server or what?00:28
mohamed_anyhelp ?00:28
Cahansoulc, not unless you have problems that will be solved by upgrading00:53
owhI have an rsync server which stores backups created with --link-dest. This means that the vast majority of the backup is actually a hard-link. I am trying to determine the actual disk space used by each backup. If I run du across one backup, I get the full size as if each file is real. If I run du across multiple, I get 22Mb for all but the first.01:21
owh22Mb seems like a lot of space for a tree of hard links.01:21
owhHow do I confirm that it is really 22Mb?01:21
pschulz01Greetings.. anyone know how to get the kernel to re-read a partition table?01:34
pschulz01(without rebooting)01:34
pschulz01What are 'audit' messages telling me in /var/log/messages?02:50
pschulz01I am trying to get slapd to use a different directory for it's database.02:50
sommerpschulz01: those are probably apparmor messages02:50
sommerpschulz01: yep, that'd do it02:50
pschulz01Ok.. how do I change them? This is a hardy alternate install.02:51
sommerpschulz01: you can either edit /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.slpad for the new directory or put the profile into complain mode02:51
sommerI'd suggest editing the file ;-)02:52
pschulz01sommer: Then what? (is there an /etc/init.d/apparmor restart?02:52
pschulz01sommer: What about sub-directories? eg. there is the line "/var/lib/ldap/* rw"02:53
pschulz01sommer: I have added to "/var/lib/ldap/<domain>"02:54
pschulz01sommer: Reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppArmor02:54
sommerpschulz01: ya, there's also information in the server guide about apparmor02:55
sommerif you edit the file then do /etc/init.d/apparmor restart it should reload02:56
pschulz01sommer: That link wasn't too helpful.02:56
pschulz01sommer: Excellent.. as expected then.02:56
pschulz01sommer: Reading http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/apparmor.html02:56
sommerpschulz01: cool, you can also find the guide on help.u.c :)02:57
pschulz01sommer: Ok.. putting it into 'complain' mode allowed slapd to run... now to edit the file. :-)03:00
pschulz01Aha.. double *03:05
pschulz01sommer: Is that worth submitting as a bug?03:07
sommerI think that's intended behavior03:09
pschulz01sommer: I'm now getting a message.. operation="file_lock" requested_mask="wk::" denied_mask="k::"03:09
pschulz01sommer: Looking to lock the file /var/lib/ldap/<domain>/alock03:10
sommerpschulz01: it's probably apparmor again, did you add all your changes to the apparmor profile file?03:10
XabrielHi guys, I need some help getting started. I want to set up a server to do two things: 1. act like a networked hard drive for my XP laptop. and 2. Create a web page that a few of my friends and I can use to access files over the internet. I'd like to know how the initial partitions should be, as well as what applications/services to use.03:10
pschulz01sommer: It is apparmour.. there is no mention of 'k' in the exisitng file, so I;m wondering if this is a bug in the exisitng profile.03:11
XabrielI had started using debian, but I don't know enough about linux yet, and ubuntu has been less difficult for me to grasp so far03:12
Kamping_KaiserXabriel, you want samba+apache installed, a large /home/ and (depending on how you setup apache) a large /var/www03:12
sommerpschulz01: the existing profile covers the default files and behavior of slapd, if you change that then you need to edit the file03:12
* Kamping_Kaiser wonders how much easier apt-get install is on ubuntu vs debian03:12
pschulz01Xabriel: Are you worried about messing up the system if you run out of disk space?03:12
* pschulz01 stares at Kamping_Kaiser.. 03:12
Xabrielpschulz01,not particularly, I just got a 500 gig drive03:13
pschulz01Xabriel: Then the default partitioning is suitable.03:13
* Kamping_Kaiser looks at pschulz01 - yu' aint from around here, are you boy?03:14
Xabrielpschulz01, should I have separate partitions for the files I will access through my home network and the ones I will use over the internet?03:14
pschulz01Xabriel: You could slice off a 5 or 10G partition if you wanted to, for the OS ('/').03:14
pschulz01Xabriel: Not necessary.03:14
pschulz01Xabriel: The file and web server will look after that for you.03:15
Xabrielpschulz01, how much swap should I set aside?03:15
pschulz01Xabriel: How much memeory do you have?03:15
Xabrielpschulz01, well I'm putting this together from old parts, I think I have about 768K03:16
pschulz01Xabriel: In the old days, the rule was 'double it'.03:16
Xabrieloy, big diff03:16
pschulz01Xabriel: You shouldn't end up getting into swap-ing (ie. use up all physical memeory) so 1G would be ample.03:17
Xabrielpschulz01, one thing I wanted to do, to keep people from messing w/ my server if they happen to find it, is have it so if they incorrectly enter the username and password more than 3 times, they get a permanent IP ban03:18
Kamping_Kaiserhope you dont try and log in drunk then ;)03:19
pschulz01Xabriel: fail2ban ? Kamping_Kaiser is that the package?03:19
Xabrieleh, if I screw up I can just go back in and remove it from the list :)03:20
Kamping_Kaiserpschulz01, its a package. looks fairly complex to setup (but i only had a quick look)03:20
XabrielI figgure that will help to keep out brute force attacks03:21
pschulz01sommer: Adding 'k' the to apparmor profile stopped the message.. but there is no mention of it in the documentation as far as I can see.03:21
pschulz01sommer: Not even in the man page for apparmor.d03:22
pschulz01Time to submit some bugs.03:22
sommerpschulz01: hrmm, ya, there's a page in the wiki troubleshooting apparmor, or something similar, is it mentioned there?03:22
pschulz01sommer: link?03:22
sommerone sec03:23
sommerpschulz01: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingApparmor03:23
cyris||anyone around using ddns behind a PAT router? ez-ipupdate listens and updates on eth0 but then updates my ddns host with my private IP.03:24
sommerpschulz01: meh, I don't think that's the link I was originially thinking of, if you could create a bug against ubuntu-serverguide, I'll add it to the docs03:25
pschulz01sommer: No mention.. :-/ (Pion: Off I go then.)03:25
Xabrielwhat exactly are mount options?03:26
pschulz01Use 'default'03:26
pschulz01Xabriel: eg. 'ro' for read only.03:26
Xabrielpschulz01, but what if I want to write? hehe03:27
pschulz01Xabriel: Where is this mentioned?03:27
pschulz01Xabriel: 'rw' for read-write.03:27
Xabrielpschulz01, there's no "default" option03:28
Xabrielpschulz01, it was on relatime03:28
pschulz01Xabriel: Wha?03:29
pschulz01Xabriel: I am goin gto need more context.03:29
Xabrielpschulz01: "relatime - update inode access times relative to modify time"03:29
Xabrielpschulz01, (this is for "/")03:30
pschulz01Xabriel: Are you looking at the 'mount' man page?03:30
Xabrielpschulz01, yes03:30
pschulz01Xabriel: Using no options at all generally also works :-)03:31
Kamping_KaiserXabriel, any reason your not trusting Linux to sort out the mount options?03:31
XabrielKamping_Kaiser, no reason, just curious03:31
Xabrielwhat file system should I use for the main data partition03:36
Xabriel(where I'll dump all my stuff)03:36
Kamping_Kaiserext3. always03:36
Xabrielwill my XP computer be able to access that on?03:36
pschulz01Kamping_Kaiser: What.. not Rieser?03:36
Kamping_Kaiserpschulz01, he doesnt need dancing trees :p03:37
Kamping_KaiserXabriel, filesysetm is irrelevent to your xp box. samba is what'll make the difference03:37
* Kamping_Kaiser afk lunch03:37
XabrielI see03:38
Kamping_Kaisercopying 80bg of ubuntu mirror over usb is a good chance fora break :O03:38
Xabrielbillion gigs?03:39
=== zobbo__ is now known as zobbo_
fujinhow can I adjust $PATH system wide? having some funny isues with Gem packages.04:54
nealmcbfujin: /etc/environment and/or /etc/login.defs look likely04:57
* nealmcb sighs04:57
pschulz01sommer: ping06:26
RockHoundhi ... is there a way to install a 2.3 openldap on hardy?07:11
zulapt-get install slapd?07:12
RockHoundthat merges 2.407:25
RockHoundeerr ... installs07:25
pschulz01Kamping_Kaiser: ping08:00
jay2<jay2> hello I need to know if there is anyway that I can redo a download when ether it fails or is paused?08:45
jay2<jay2> that is on ubuntu server 7.1008:45
sorenWhat sort of download?08:50
sorenWhich application are you using?08:50
jay2I well find out I am helping a friend out on undernet so its not me08:51
jay2sorry about that08:52
jay2mite take some time a dissconnect or net split :(08:54
pschulz01sommer: Thanks for your help earlier.. it wasn;t really a bug in apparmor09:01
Fohdeeshagoooood mornin09:52
* ogra waves 09:57
ograis ayone of the server team looking after updating the docs on help.ubuntu.com to match new procedures introduced in hardy ?09:58
ograi.e. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LDAPClientAuthentication09:58
ograseems people have probs when following it on 8.0409:58
Fohdeeshalucent ding ding ding10:08
jimcooncatCan someone tell me why the following is the default? It seems so unsecure to me:10:14
jimcooncatBy default, user home directories in Ubuntu are created with world read/execute permissions.10:14
jimcooncatI take it that if you're using a ltsp server that this would still hold true for each user that logs in from a thin client (?!?)10:18
ograthin clients dont have anything to do with the homedir10:19
sorenI would assume so, yes.10:19
jimcooncatI guess I should rephrase that: installing ubuntu's ltsp package won't fix directory permissions to ensure user privacy.10:21
ograltsp doesnt touch homedirs or user setups10:21
ograyou can set it yourself in /etc/login.defs10:21
ogralook for umask10:21
\shwasn't there an option in d-i these days, d-i was asking if you want world readable/executable home dirs or not10:22
jimcooncatthanks ogra10:22
ogramight be in expert mode10:22
jimcooncat\sh: good, I'll check that out, since I'm using netboot installs10:22
\shor did I mix it up now with the debian os install...I saw it the last time I installed ubuntu or debian...10:22
blue-frog_jimcooncat: for ne wusers ot depends how you create them10:23
jimcooncatI see i can fix it for new users in /etc/adduser.conf10:23
blue-frog_useradd cretaes home dir with rx for others while adduser creates it with x only10:24
ogradont use useradd, adduser is what you want10:24
jimcooncatiirc, useradd is a wrapper for adduser anyway10:25
ograother way round :)10:25
blue-frog_on the sie how do you adduser in a script?10:25
ograuseradd is something to use from scripts etc ...10:25
jimcooncatoh, I guess I didn't iirc :-)10:25
blue-frog_how do you use adduser in a script?10:25
blue-frog_then it would be nice if by default useradd was giving same defaults as adduser10:26
ograblue-frog_, you dont, thats what you have useradd for  ...10:26
ograadduser is a maintenance tool, useradd is a backend10:26
blue-frog_ogra: yes but default for useradd have changed a while ago and it is a bit annoying10:27
ograif you do normal maintenance tasks never use useradd10:27
jimcooncatWhen using ltsp or other shared access, how do you keep firefox memory usage from being a problem? I doubt my users would get in the habit of killing firefox-bin once in a while to restore memory like I do on my machine.10:31
blue-frogsorry got disc... one more question about adduser10:32
blue-frogin adduser.conf we have DIR_MODE=0755 so if I understand correctly the homedir should be created with 755 but  it is created with 751, any explanation?10:34
ograjimcooncat, ff3 handles ram way better than the -2 version did, general rule of thumb for ltsp is to have 128M per session on the server plus 256M for th server itself10:35
jimcooncatogra, that's good to hear. I haven't tested hardy yet, I could see that was going to be a problem with ff2. I was hoping to avoid replacing the one familiar program they had with epiphany or something else.10:37
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=== virtbot is now known as virtbot`
jimcooncat\sh: found it! # Do you want system wide readable home directories?11:12
=== jords__ is now known as jords
venilhi, how do i add dns lookup ip?11:30
venilmy network is up and running, but no DNS lookups work11:30
jordsvenil: try dig11:32
jordsmight need to google for the package it's in, can't remember....11:33
venilwhats dig?11:34
ograogra@osiris:~$ dpkg -S /usr/bin/dig11:36
ogradnsutils: /usr/bin/dig11:36
ograits installed by default11:36
venilis it not just enough to add dns to /etc/network/interfaces11:37
ogradepends what you want to achive with your server11:39
ograbut you should rather add it to resolv.conf11:39
venilarghh!!! thanks orga, resolf.conf is what i was looking for11:40
=== lamont` is now known as lamont
zazugeI got a problem with postfix ,can anybody help me?11:46
lamontnot without knowing what the problem is11:47
zazugethanks for replying, it's about sender relay maps11:48
venilguys, how can i bind mysqld to more than one ip address11:50
venilcan i just bind-address in my.cnf several ip adresses?11:50
zazugeto be exact I've setup a the mail server correctly to relay throught yahoo and gmail smtp servers it worked well with , but the problem is with smtp_sender_dependent_authentication it seems that postfix use only the relayhost parametre and not sender_dependent_relayhost_maps11:51
zazugeI'll reformulate the question11:55
zazugehave two account one on yahoo ,and the other on gmail11:55
zazugeI configured postfix and fetchmail to send and recive mail throught11:55
zazugemy yahoo account , with proper adress rewriting and all.11:55
zazugeafter that I did the same with gmail and added the certificate to let me send and recive throught gmail but the side effect is that i can no longer send with yahoo smtp server.11:55
zazugenext i wanted to cohabitate the 2 setups11:55
zazugeI used these line11:55
zazugesmtp_sender_dependent_authentication = yes11:55
zazugesender_dependent_relayhost_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/sender_relay11:55
zazugebut nothing it just seem that the only effective line is relayhost = smtp.mail.yahoo.fr:2511:56
zazugeand if I try to comment it I get connect to yahoo.fr[]: Connection timed out (port 25)11:57
* lamont hasn't used sender_dep_auth11:57
zazugeconnect to gmail.com[]: Connection timed out (port 25)11:57
lamontworst case, one could use transport maps to force the config diffs between them, although it does sound lik sender_dep_auth could be talked into doing what you want11:58
zazugethanks lamont i'll check this one :-)11:58
gaouziefhi people11:59
gaouziefi have an issue maybe someone can help12:00
gaouziefwhile installing 8.04 server i misspelled host name12:00
gaouziefounce installed i went in /etc/hosts and corrected spelling manually12:00
gaouziefnow sudo won't work, even after reboot12:01
gaouziefhow can i fix this?12:01
blue-froggaouzief: you need to fix /etc/hostname aswell12:01
ogradid you fix /etc/hostname too ?12:01
gaouziefcan't access that anymore12:01
ograboot into recovery mode and fix it :)12:01
gaouziefokay, in recovery mode i should mount th / partition?12:02
gaouziefwhat then12:02
ograjust boot into recovery mode f the installed system12:02
ograthe one grub offers12:02
gaouziefok not the CD recovery mode12:02
gaouziefok i'll try that12:03
ograhit esc if you see the grub countdown12:03
gaouziefbut this should be fixed somehow, it's a common mistake12:14
phil_how should one fix that people forget to change /etc/hostname accordingly? :)12:19
phil_ah nevermind, he left..12:19
dendrobatesmorning all12:47
sommermorning dendrobates12:48
ScottKsommer: clamav 0.92.1 backports to Feisty/Gutsy are done.12:54
ScottKGood morning.13:00
venilhow can i permanently setup env. variable, so that it remains after reboot13:12
dthackervenii: for a login shell?13:22
dthackervenil: Are you setting this variable for a login shell?13:23
venili need to set JAVA_HOME for tomcat to work properly13:24
zulvenil: you can edit /etc/profile13:24
ograyou shouldnt set JAVA_HOME though, the java packages set it up properly13:24
ogra(JAVA_HOME isnt supposed to be used on debian based systems)13:25
venilwell, tomcat gives an error if its not setup13:25
ogranot here13:25
ograat least with the package13:25
dthackerthat was my next question.  Did you install with the package?13:26
venilnope, just downloaded from their website13:26
venili should have probably done apt-get install tomcat5.5 ??13:27
ograyeah :)13:27
venilwell, i tried that before, its kinda different from what original tomcat55 has to offer, it runs on a different port for example13:28
ograthats easy to change in the config file13:29
dthackervenil: In my experience,  the advantages of working within the package management system outweigh the disadvantages.13:29
venilso if i do apt-get, will it also download jre for me??13:30
venilas i already have it installed, not thru packages13:30
ograit would default to the already installed java on your system that comes with the default install13:30
ograyou could install the sun java engine from multiverse to make it work with that13:31
ograno clue how to make it work with manually installed java13:31
venilno worrie, its easy to uninstall, ( ii guess o_O ??)13:32
venilcan you walk me thru the right way please?13:33
* ogra has no clue where the java installer puts what or which files of the original java it replaces blindly without asking13:33
ograso no, i cant13:33
venili know how to enable multiverse, how do i install the JAVA package though??13:34
sommerScottK: cool, does that version need backported to dapper as well?13:35
ScottKAlready done.13:35
ScottKSince we'd already got the libclamav3 transition done in Dapper, it was simple.13:35
ogravenil,  apt-cache search sun-java13:35
ogramake your pick13:36
ScottKsommer: libclamav4 and clamav 0.93 is here, so no rest for the weary.13:36
venili just discovered that multivesre is enabled by default in 8.04 is that ruight??13:36
ScottKNothing is installed from it in any default installation though13:36
ScottKIIRC it's been that way since Feisty.13:37
sommerScottK: ah, just let me know when it needs testing :-)13:38
ScottKsommer: What really needs doing is looking in the Fedora 9 repository for patches.  They had a klamav patch, but I haven't looked at the rest.13:39
sommerScottK: sounds intersting, so you mean patches for applications that use clamav or clamav itself?13:40
ScottKsommer: All the packages that build against libclamav.  See the team wiki page.  I just updated it.13:41
sommerScottK: okay, I'll take a look today13:42
shashi I am using Ubuntu 8.04 64-bit version, if i install any 32-bit applications like browsers, datbase clients ...etc. The 32-bit based applications not able to reach /etc/resolv.conf file to communicate to the network. Any one tell me how to resolve this issue ?13:42
Viper111guys when i am connecting to my ubuntu server through VPN PPtp i will be disconnected from the network13:42
ScottKshashi: Spamming multiple channels will get you fewer answers, not more.13:45
venilwhat is the default port tomcat55 is running on (not 8080), i cant even check whether its running or not13:48
venilwhich conf file do i edit, to change the default port??13:51
phil_/etc/tomcat5.5/server.xml should have some connectors defined13:57
phil_I think it is 8180 per default for non-ssl13:58
wo0fyo guys13:58
wo0fdoes anyone know a good tutorial for setting up a terminal server with ubuntu?13:58
wo0fcant find anything decent on google13:58
wo0fwith tight vnc tbh13:59
\shwo0f, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VNC ?14:04
\shI wonder for what someone needs a terminal server on linux/unix while there is ssh or a network protocol named Xwindow14:05
venilssh rulz14:06
oxtubUsing libnss-ldap and libpam-ldap to authenticate users on a 2003 Microsoft AD, anyone have any clues why logins would just hang forever? Users show up in `getent passwd`, and incorrect passwords are rejected, but correct passwords and su's to ldap accounts just hang forever.14:16
sommeroxtub: do you have pam configured to use ldap, and winbind?14:32
sommeroxtub: also, likewise-open greatly simplifies the configuration14:34
ikoniais there any senario where an ubuntu-server installl will install lilo instead of grub as default. I have a user in #ubuntu saying thats what happened14:34
sommerikonia: not that I've ever seen14:35
ikoniaas I suspected also14:36
ikoniathank you14:36
wo0f\sh: cheers man.14:45
\shwo0f, helped?14:45
wo0fikonia: no i don't think so14:47
wo0fikonia: theres not even an option for that anymore14:47
wo0funless your using a really old version, but tbh, has ubuntu ever used lilo?14:47
wo0f\sh: yeh cheers mate.14:47
Kamping_Kaisersilo on sparc, but not lilo14:48
klafHumm, where can I find jeos to download?14:52
klafbamed: Thx, trying it out now.15:07
ikoniawo0f: thank you15:16
=== bamed is now known as bamed|away
klafWhat do you think. Is ebox the thing to use for colleagues  that not want to use bash? On our old physical debian servers we used webmin...15:39
* Kamping_Kaiser recomends a cluebat15:41
ScottKwebmin was removed from both Debian and Ubuntu because it's config file management system is incompatible.15:41
ScottKYou can think of ebox as a more reliable replacement for webmin for someone who would want such a thing.15:41
klafScottK: That is why I am looking at sumfink else than webmin.15:42
ScottKThen ebox is likely what you're after.15:42
* ScottK doesn't use it personally.15:42
klafScottK: We used to manage bind with webmin. I need to find sumthing else, beq ppl here do not want to edit the zone files themself. :)15:43
faulkes-hrmm, it would appear the forum team removed our moderation privileges when the installed the new forum stuff15:43
faulkes-as well as assuming ownership of the post we had there15:43
\shklaf, powerdns?15:43
* faulkes- has been up all night fixing a downed PDC15:43
* faulkes- is not impressed today15:43
ScottKNot sure if a bind module made it into Hardy or not.15:44
* ScottK bets soren knows.15:44
* ScottK runs off to a meeting....15:44
\shklaf, or mysqlbind (http://freshmeat.net/projects/mysqlbind/)15:45
klaf\sh: is it a wrapper around bind?15:45
\shklaf, powerdns is a DNS Server with webfrontend15:45
klafScottK: Thanx for the hel15:45
\shklaf, mysqlbind is a webfrontend for bind15:45
klaf\sh: Ah, I'm a bind9 fella :p15:45
virtbot`klaf: Error: "mysqlbind" is not a valid command.15:46
ubottuFactoid mysqlbind not found15:46
\shactually, webmin was a cool solution in the early days of the internet boom, early to mid 90ties15:46
\shI installed in on several customer servers..and wrote these days the qmail webmin module15:46
klaf\sh: Well, you know that debian servers are stable. It it works don't touch it.. Except security fixes :p15:47
\shklaf, debian is stable...but not the admin who works on those servers...;) after all, normally you have many cases where web-admin-stuff doesn't work as expected15:48
klaf\sh: Oh, I've used the qmail module further back in time15:49
\shklaf, the qmail.wbm or the qmailwebmin module..there are two of them...:)15:49
klaf\sh: Exactly, some modules really fscked up the configs. On the qmail module, I don't really remember, lately I mostly use postfix.15:50
klaf\sh: Have you used mysqlbind?15:51
=== zobbo__ is now known as zobbo_
\shklaf, nope...I'm using some selfmade scripts to add hosts etc. to my zone files...but in our company we are using mysqlbind...(well, actually we hacked some stuff into it, so it fits with our special setup)15:52
\shklaf, I'm waiting for a new root server for my private fun, and I wanted to setup powerdns to see how it works ... it could be a good solution for customers who wants to self-admin their dns zone files15:53
* faulkes- prefers vi for zone files15:55
\shfaulkes-, yes..for single zone files...that's nice ;) for several hundreds or more manual editing is a pain in da ass, when you are e.g. a webhoster ;)15:56
faulkes-Subject: Launchpad: changes to your project's licence record15:56
* faulkes- eyes Canonical15:56
sorenScottK: A "bind module"? -ENOCONTEXT15:59
faulkes-soren: for eBox iirc16:01
sorenebox-dns should to that.16:02
klafsoren: Ah, thankx..16:02
* klaf looking it up now16:03
elventearI have a small problem, on 8.04-server. When the box finishes booting the services it doesn't show the login prompt in tty0. Any ideas what might cause this?16:31
\shelventear, press enter ;)16:38
elventearNothing happens, really16:38
\shelventear, and on tty1?16:39
ograbut you have login promps on the other consoles ?16:39
elventearI have login in the other ttys16:39
elventearAnd full network access and everything16:39
elventearThat is why I say it's minor, but weird16:39
ograthat the prompt scrolls away on tty0 is a known upstart bug16:39
ograbut you should get to it once you hit enter16:40
elventearogra: I had set the system to wait until the service startup was done16:40
elventearSo that didn't happen16:40
elventearBut now I don't get the the prompt at all16:40
elventearI have reverted the setting, but still it does the same16:40
melteri'm trying to install openssh from the installer, and it's failing, is this a known problem?16:41
zulfailing as in how?16:44
melterInstallation step failed: "An installation step failed. You can try to run the failing item again from the menu, or skip it and choose something else. The failing step is: Select and install software"16:48
ogradid you check the CD ?16:48
ograsounds like a corupted iso16:48
melteri'll do that now16:48
=== virtbot` is now known as uvirtbot
melter"The CD-ROM integrity test was successful. The CD-ROM is valid."16:55
melterare there MD5 sums somewhere?16:57
melternm, found em16:57
melter"ubuntu-8.04-server-i386.iso: OK"16:58
rarnis there a way to install a paravirt ubuntu image from cd? I looked at  jeos and it doesnt seem to do xen. i'm running on an opensolaris dom017:02
good_danararn: i believe that all ubuntu kernels are paravirtualized17:06
rarnhmm - will they be set for a serial console?17:08
rarnI'll try that now17:08
MalbojiaI'm looking for someone who has completed a samba migration from distro y to distro x. Having issues with logins associated to folders17:08
rarngood_dana, using virt-install, it doesn't like the server iso17:12
rarnunless i do a HVM17:12
phaidroshi, whats the tool / way of choice to handle webapps for multiple users on ubuntu?17:16
phaidroslike mediawiki installed via dpkg ..17:17
phaidrosI am usually giving each user the unpacked tarball to their space ..17:17
phaidrosunder gentoo there is webapp-config17:24
uvirtbotNew bug: #224791 in nut (main) "nut upsmon not observing it's config file" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22479117:26
ubottuLaunchpad bug 224791 in nut "nut upsmon not observing it's config file" [Undecided,New]17:26
mathiazsoren: uvirtbot ?? why do we start to receive new bugs notification in here ?17:27
sorenIt's bugs that the server team is subscribed to. I thought it'd be a nice way to get notified about new bugs.17:29
morickso you never went bowling with goebbels either?17:33
sorenmathiaz: You don't like it?17:34
morickso you never went bowling with goebbels either?17:34
mathiazsoren: hmm.. Wouldn't that start to clutter the channel ?17:37
mathiazsoren: ubotu was removed from #ubuntu-bugs for that specific reason17:38
mathiazsoren: we can discuss that in the meeting later today17:38
melteri started the install over, and now it works ok17:41
uvirtbotNew bug: #224428 in munin (main) "munin-node not restarted after plugin installation" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22442817:47
ubottuLaunchpad bug 224428 in munin "munin-node not restarted after plugin installation" [Undecided,Confirmed]17:48
faulkes-mathiaz: won't be at the meeting today17:51
nxvldid someone know's who is in charge of shop.canonical.com?17:53
sorenmathiaz: Do we get that many bugs, you think?17:55
sorenThe fact that ubottu repeats them all is a bit much, though.17:55
mathiazsoren: well - I'm not sure we gain so much by announcing bugs here.17:56
mathiazsoren: I tend to be against clutterring the channel with useless information17:57
mathiazsoren: I already receive bug notification by email17:57
mathiazsoren: I get them in one place, and that's enough17:57
mathiazsoren: I'm not sure what is the advantage of being notified in real time about new bugs17:58
sorenI find it rather handy, actually.18:07
nealmcbmathiaz: it makes it easier for folks to discuss it - no one needs to manually paste them18:07
nealmcbbut one copy is enough....18:08
mathiaznealmcb: oh - I don't say that ubottu should not be here18:08
mathiaznealmcb: I question the need to announce *new* bugs18:09
sorenI just like to get notified about new bugs. I need to really work up an attitude to look through my bug mail, but I'd still like to know about *new* bugs quickly.18:09
sorenIt's only server bugs, after all. It's not like ubuntu-bugs that announces a new bug each minute.18:11
nealmcbmathiaz: and I think that having the bot help to start conversations about new bugs is handy18:11
mathiaznealmcb: hmmm - good point18:13
zulI find it handy as well to be honest as well18:13
mathiazI guess it's a matter of persnal taste and how one gets organized18:14
mathiazwe should give it a try18:14
LudwikHi, I just reported two new bugs connected to NIS/NFS and Ubuntu 8.04 on Launchpad, but I'm new to the Launchpad thing so I would appreciate if someone would take a look at them, for example I'm not sure what do they affect. If somebody know some workarounds for my problems that of course would also be very appreciated ;)18:35
LudwikThe first one - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/22482018:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 224820 in ubuntu-meta "Gnome Appearance Properties doesn't work when /home folder mounted using NFS; affects the log out dialog" [Undecided,New]18:35
LudwikThe second one - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nis/+bug/22482818:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 224828 in nis "NIS demon fails during startup if the roaming mode is turned off" [Undecided,New]18:35
ograwow, NIS ?18:39
* ogra wouldnt have thought there are still people using it 18:39
ograLudwik, the first one is rather a bug for the desktop team18:40
zulogra: we still used it at my old workplace for some cadence stuff18:41
LudwikWe use NIS/NFS for quite a long time. What are a goot alternatives?18:42
ograLudwik, i fixed the ubuntu-meta assignment to properly point to gnome-control-center18:42
ograso the right people get notified18:42
Ludwikogra - thank you :)18:44
LudwikOgra - so what do people use now insted of NIS?18:46
ograusually LDAP18:48
nelydajoHi All. Does any one know of a tool to manage (add/edit/delete/import) many users in a school lab environment? GUI tool would be preferable.19:09
Ludwiknelydajo: I use NFS/NIS for this task, but they've just told me I should use LDAP instead19:14
Ludwik(those technologies let you synchronize accounts from a central server)19:15
ograLudwik, we didnt tell you you *should* use it :)19:18
ograi was just surprised to see someone still using NIS :)19:18
ograi personally would rather set up a central machine and have ssh warpped rsync scripts syncing up the passwd/groups/shadow files than using an ldap server ;)19:20
ogra(at least up to a certain amount of users)19:20
mathiazogra: numbers of machines would be the limiting factor rather than users IMO19:22
nelydajoMy understanding is that ldap is a central 'database' of user details. What front-end would you used to edit these details? How do these get translated into actual accounts on the user's computer.19:22
mathiazogra: you'd also have to handle machines that are not available when you update your central database19:23
carignouI installed ubuntu server yesterday and i have a weird internet problem : I can ping www.google.com but i can't wget www.google.com and i can't "sudo apt-get update" but i can wget www.sedoparking.de. Does it inspire you ?19:23
ogramathiaz, well, with > 1000 users a passwd file gaets tricky to handle19:23
mathiazogra: ldap is more a pull model - rsync scripts is more a push model19:23
nelydajoI'm talking about a thin-client environment, so the users are actually only logging onto the central server.19:23
ogramathiaz, i had such a setup when i worked at an ISP for 200 servers with about 600 users19:23
ograthe machines all had poll scripts19:24
ogra(back in '96 btw :) no ldap at that time )19:24
Ludwikogra - it wouldn't work very well in our envirement, because some of our machines are laptop computers, and I can't count on them being turn on on a given time19:24
mathiazogra: right - did you have a way to notify machines that they should pull new info ?19:24
ograno we had cron scripts19:25
mathiazLudwik: in a pull model it wouldn't matter - laptop would just pull info when they're available19:25
ograpolling all 5 mins19:25
ograit were all servers not workstations it didnt need to be fast19:26
mathiazogra: right - so changing a user password or group info would take up to 5 minutes to propagate19:26
mathiazogra: correct - depending on which services you're running that can be an option19:26
ograbut still you only have to maintain one file and drop the script and keys into new machines19:26
mathiazogra: some services may require instaneous accurate account information19:26
ograyeah, indeed19:28
mathiazogra: OTOH the script approach is handy because it makes servers working in standalone mode19:29
mathiazogra: if the ldap server goes down, you're screwed :/19:29
ograyup, that was the plan19:29
ograthe prob we had back then was that shadow wasnt properly overwritable without fiddling19:29
ograthat forced is to  a plain passwd file which is rather not optimal19:30
LudwikFor example when a student comes to you on a begining of the lesson that she've forgotten her passoword and wants to change it you don't want her to wait not following your instrucion until the passowrds propagate ;)19:30
mathiazLudwik: right - this is why you need to have pull function also19:30
ograLudwik, you can adjust the cron scripts19:30
ograto shorter cycles19:30
mathiazLudwik: a manual pull script19:30
nealmcbnelydajo: hmm - doesn't ebox manage things via ldap - it has a (web-based) gui19:31
ograor you can even push19:31
nelydajonealmcb, Tx - I'll have a look at ebox.19:31
mathiazcorrect - you need to have an infrastructure to push/pull automatically/manually19:31
mathiazthe problem in the push model is how to handle machines that are not available19:31
LudwikSo in the push/pull scenerio both server and desktops would have ssh demons installed?19:32
mathiazLudwik: oh yes -19:32
nelydajoI'm trying to help a school teacher who new to linux, and has 35 classes with about 20 students each. Class lists available from admin in spreadsheets.19:32
mathiazLudwik: implementing a push/pull infrastructure is based around ssh and public keys19:32
Ludwiknelydajo - I'm a school teacher and my current NIS/NFS configuration is preaty simple (doesn't have frontend, though). I just followed the instrukction in Ubuntu wiki.19:34
LudwikAnd than you have one central computer in which you add new accounts19:35
Ludwikand the rest of them just use those19:35
ogramathiaz, btw do you get these many ltsp users every day in here ?19:36
mathiazogra: nope - it's a first - what did you do ?19:37
ograi'm quite surprised, i dont think i ever spent a day in this channel and notice today that its full of thin client users19:37
* carignou is crying19:37
nelydajoLudwik, could you give me the URL for NIS/NFS wiki?19:38
Ludwiknelydajo: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SettingUpNISHowTo19:38
_rubenhmm .. wonder if the open-vm-tools package is still available somehow19:38
nelydajoLudwik, Thanks!19:38
* mathiaz pictures the crowd of ltsp users following ogra wherever he goes19:38
nelydajoIs someone poking fun at ltsp users? :-D19:39
Ludwiknelydajo: and for the NFS component - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SettingUpNFSHowTo?19:39
nelydajoLudwik, thanks again.19:40
ogramathiaz, i added -server to my default channels now ... feel free to point ltsp probs in my direction19:41
mathiazogra: sure :)19:41
nealmcbhow can I search from the command line by keyword for packages in main, or in the server seed?  (e.g. supported ldap-related packages)20:10
* nealmcb notes that there are some nice searches at http://packages.ubuntu.com/)20:12
nealmcbnelydajo: I haven't used any of these - but also notice  ldap-account-manager20:16
nealmcb!info ldap-account-manager20:16
uvirtbotnealmcb: Error: I couldn't retrieve that RSS feed.20:16
ubottuldap-account-manager: webfrontend for managing accounts in an LDAP directory. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.3.0-1 (gutsy), package size 1628 kB, installed size 6352 kB20:16
blue-frognealmcb: I would say enable only main in sources.list, update and then apt-cache search should do the trick20:19
blue-frogapt-cache search ldap20:19
nealmcbblue-frog: interesting.  a bit drastic....20:19
mathiaznealmcb: isn't there an option on apt-cache or rmadison to specify which component to include ?20:20
blue-frogther is a madison option in pat-cache but I do not know what it is for20:20
FishsceneDoes anyone know where I can find the recommended requirements for Ubuntu Server HH (8.x)?20:20
LudwikIMO aptitude search ~Amain ldap should work...20:20
nealmcbmathiaz: I was looking.  I think part of the issue is that apt-cache is agnostic in relation to distros, so it doesn't mention "universe" in the doc, or even "component"20:21
nealmcbthey seem to creep in in terms of parallel trees of the "section" value20:22
mathiaznealmcb: right - debian has the equivalent of component, they're just called differently20:22
nealmcbbut apt-cache man page doesn't even mention "section"20:22
nelydajonealmcb, Thanks - ldap-account-manager looks like it may do the job. I will give it a try.20:23
nealmcbnelydajo: we'd love to hear your experiences also....20:24
blue-frognealmcb: apparently aptitude search main ldap will only look in main20:36
nealmcbblue-frog: interesting....20:37
blue-frogdoes not20:37
nealmcbbut it has some fancy patterns and parameter searches: http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/ch02s03s01.html20:40
nealmcbblue-frog: well, this is close - aptitude search "! ~suniverse ldap"20:49
blue-frognealmcb: think I have it. let try a loop20:49
blue-frogyes working, there you go20:51
blue-frogfor i in $(apt-cache search ldap); do apt-cache madison $i | grep "/main"; done20:51
blue-frogonly packages in related to LDAP and in main20:52
nealmcbsomehow this is not the friendly ubuntu I think we're shooting for, if it is this hard to help people find LTS supported packages....20:56
nealmcbI love playing with grep, but don't want to explain that to the non-profit business manager down the street....20:57
blue-frogwhy would a manager put his hand in a server?20:58
ivoksone more hour?21:05
ivoksuff... :/21:05
Sylphid|workim sure this is the wrong place to ask but im not sure where to look .... is it possible to run an ssh server on windows and export the display to an X server21:12
blue-frog_the real question being what do you need to do?21:15
Sylphid|worki have an application that my company uses that will not run on linux... even with wine21:17
Sylphid|workthere are approximatly 5 of us that would prefer running soley linux on our workstations but cant because of this app21:17
blue-frog_so access your windows with ts client21:18
ivoksremote desktop?21:18
blue-frog_oh but this apps is not on a windows server?21:18
Sylphid|workthat would only allow 1 person to be on at a time though21:18
blue-frog_no other apps can replace this apps?21:18
Sylphid|worknot at this time21:19
Sylphid|workits billing software21:19
blue-frog_blling as in accounting?21:19
blue-frog_or client billing21:19
blue-frog_shoot it21:19
Sylphid|workclient billing21:19
blue-frog_maybe it's time to insvestigate an open source solution21:20
* delcoyote hi21:20
Sylphid|workwe are however that solution is 2 years down the road or more...according to management21:20
Sylphid|workso what im hoping to do in the mean time is run an ssh server on a windows box and just have the users start an instance with the display exported to there local box.... if its possible21:22
mathiazSylphid|work: you'd have to use rdesktop and a terminal server21:22
blue-frog_ask management (well be subtle) what is best pay softwares, get no support lose time and money or don't pay softwares (eventually you can pay for it as well) pay for support so that you can focus on your job21:23
ivokstoo tired... good night21:23
mathiazbye ivoks21:23
blue-frog_even with ssh server you will have a problem, if I understand well how would you launch two instances of your software from the same windows21:24
blue-frog_as in windows PC21:24
Sylphid|workthe software seems to handle multiple instances fine21:25
Sylphid|workas far as i can tell21:25
mathiazSylphid|work: may be - but you may need multiple instance of Windows running21:25
mathiazSylphid|work: IIRC remote user are limited according to which version of Windows you're using21:26
Sylphid|workmathiaz, i see what your saying but thats if i use a rdesktop solution21:26
mathiazSylphid|work: like XP Home can handle 1 remote user, XP Professional up to 3 concurrent remote users (or something like that - I don't know the numbers)21:26
Sylphid|workmathiaz, im looking to aviod rdesktop if possible21:26
mathiazSylphid|work: yes - rdesktop is the only solution AFAICT21:27
mathiazSylphid|work: windows apps don't understand the X architecture21:27
mathiazSylphid|work: you cannot run a Windows App on a X server21:27
Sylphid|workto bad..... ok thanks for the help mathiaz and blue-frog_21:29
_rubenwhats wrong with remote desktop?21:29
Sylphid|worknothing per say... just was wanting to avoid it if possible21:30
_rubenwhich doesnt make sense .. why avoid smth when there's no apparent reason to do .. especially with seamless remote desktop (exporting single windows, not complete desktop)21:31
mathiazright - rdesktop really works well - even over VPN and internet links21:32
Malbojiagood afternoon21:32
mathiazsoren: I've tried to install fedora9 on my server with kvm - it leads to a DOS error call: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mathiaz/fedora9_install.png21:40
sorenYeah, there's a bug about it already. I haven't had a chance to look into it yet.21:45
melterhas anyone here ever switched from Gentoo to Ubuntu for servers? are there any resources to help make the move easier?22:07
* owh tests the bot.22:27
uvirtbotowh: Error: "webmin" is not a valid command.22:27
ubottuwebmin is no longer supported in Debian and Ubuntu. It is not compatible with the way that Ubuntu packages handle configuration files, and is likely to cause unexpected issues with your system. See !ebox instead.22:27
sorenubottu is a different bot.22:28
uvirtbotowh: Error: "ebox" is not a valid command.22:28
ubottuebox is a web-based GUI interface for administering a server. It is designed to work with Ubuntu/Debian style configuration management. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/eBox22:28
ubottusoren: Error: "is" is not a valid command.22:28
sorenHaving two bots here is disturbing, though.22:28
* soren would like to find a reasonable compromise22:28
RoAkSoAxshould change the special character that they responde to22:28
RoAkSoAxone should be like @ something and the other ! or something like that22:29
sorenI'm already doing that :)22:31
owhmelter: The only document I came across was this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FromGentooToKubuntu, it talks about moving to Kubuntu, not to ubuntu-server, but it might get you started.22:35
owhmelter: And of course GIYF.22:35
sorenbug 122:36
melterowh, i've been googleing, and i see lots of blogs about switching, but nothing that even comes close to being technical22:36
sorenuvirtbot: config plugins.Bugtracker.bugSnarfer True22:37
uvirtbotsoren: The operation succeeded.22:37
sorenbug 122:37
melterjust garbage like, "i just switched, and i've never been happier"22:37
owhmelter: Well, the link I gave you provides some "flyover" level information, but what specific issues did you have?22:37
sorenbug 122:38
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1 in ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/122:38
sorenThere we go.22:38
ubottuebox is a web-based GUI interface for administering a server. It is designed to work with Ubuntu/Debian style configuration management. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/eBox22:38
sorenYeah, that's what I was trying to say. uvirtbot will do the bug stuff, and I'll leave the factoid stuff to ubottu.22:39
owhsoren: So, do we have a specific role-set for the twins?22:39
sorenowh: uvirtbot: bug announcement and the bug lookup thing. ubottu: everything else ubotu used to do.22:40
owhAll good. Should we document that somewhere?22:40
melterowh, i'm looking for the ubuntu version of this page: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/list.xml?desc=122:40
melteri want to search at ubuntu's wiki, and not get documents in languages i don't understand22:41
melteri have no problem with them existing, i simply want to filter them out22:41
melteri want to search, and not find documents for old versions of ubuntu that no longer apply22:42
melterwhen i enter a search term and hit reply, i don't want my search limited to titles, and want to search the text, by default22:42
melter*hit return22:42
owhmelter: Well, help.ubuntu.com is the document server, broken down into versions of distributions. There are several search tools, one made by kirkland recently: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/search.html22:43
melterwhen i go to the "8.04" tab, i want the 8.04 version of the document i'm currently looking at, and not something completely different22:43
* owh is checking to see if melter is reporting a bug with the documentation server.22:44
owhHmm, that does seem to be a usability issue of some sort.22:44
melteri hate to complain, i know everyone does the best they can22:44
melterbut i've been struggling all day just to get ubuntu server to set my hostname correctly, and i'm losing my mind22:45
owhmelter: You raised an interesting point. I'm just glad that the ubuntu-server guide is up: https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/index.html22:46
melterwhy does ubuntu have so many different hosts and pages?22:47
Centaur5Could anybody recommend the best brand for well supported hardware SATA raid controllers?22:47
owhmelter: Because it's been organically grown.22:48
melterso help.ubuntu is completely different then wiki.ubuntu?22:48
owhmelter: Yup22:49
hadsHi all. I'm looking at getting a new colo box with Hardy on it as a xen dom0 running Hardy domU instances. Anyone have any thoughts about the support of Xen in Hardy and in the future?22:49
owhmelter: The search link I gave you searches all that.22:49
melterthat is completely unexpected22:49
meltergo to wiki.ubuntu.com, enter "dhcp" in the search box, hit return, and you'll understand my frustration22:50
owhmelter: To blow your mind, those are both different from docs.ubuntu, where pre-release stuff lives. There's launchpad.net where bugs live and bazaar.launchpad.net where code lives.22:50
owhmelter: I see what you mean :)22:51
melterwhere's the search box at the top of help.ubuntu.com?22:51
owhmelter: For your purposes the server guide should get you started: Ubuntu Server Guide <https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/index.html>22:51
melterwhy does that page show "5.10" and "6.06 LTS"?22:55
uvirtbotNew bug: #224945 in apache2 (main) "memory leaks in apache2 when running mod_ssl" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22494522:55
owhmelter: Which page?22:56
melterthe one you just linked22:56
owhmelter: Ah, that looks like a bug.22:56
owhmelter: The new server docs are still drying, they went up only recently.22:57
melterand why, when i click the "5.10" tab, don't i get a 5.10 version of the same document? and why does it then add a new "6.10" tab?22:57
owhsommer: Who do we poke about the server guide? At the moment melter points out that the tabs are showing 5.10 and 6.06?22:57
nealmcbso soren, tell us the story of the bots.  pretty please?22:58
ajmitchowh: bug against ubuntu-website, perhaps22:58
sorenSeveas got mad and left.22:58
sommerowh: hrm, from which site?22:58
melterand clicking the 6.10 tab adds new tabs for 7.04 and 7.1022:58
sorennealmcb: It's about as simple as that.22:58
owhsommer: Ubuntu Server Guide <https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/index.html>22:59
owhajmitch: I just wondered prior to doing that if sommer was already across it.22:59
nealmcbso which bot does what?  you run uvirtbot?23:00
* hads waves to ajmitch 23:00
sommerowh: that's definitely the wrong link, try: https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/serverguide/C/index.html23:00
nealmcband jussi01 does ubottu?23:00
ajmitchhello hads :)23:00
sommerowh: I think that's left over from dapper23:00
owhsommer: It's what documentation search threw up in the air.23:00
owhI'll log a bug.23:01
sommerowh: ya, there's been a bug about that for quite a while, and I think there's blueprints about the wiki.u.c and help.u.c naming confusion23:01
owhsommer: Ah, so no need then?23:01
mathiazwiki.u.c is the developer wiki23:01
mathiazhelp.ubuntu.com/community/ is the user/documentation wiki23:02
nealmcbsoren: and do we have the same code base and/or configuration/factoid base in one of the other of those bots?  If I want what ubotu did for #ubuntu-us-co who do I talk to or what help is needed?23:02
* owh heads off to breakfast.23:02
sorennealmcb: Ask in #ubuntu-bots23:02
hadsThe topic could be updated with the 8.04 serverguide link.23:02
sommermathiaz: yep yep, but seems new comers get confused23:02
melterhelp.ubuntu.com really needs a search engine23:04
Nafalloit has two?23:04
hadsIs KVM the recommended virtualisation software on a Hardy server over Xen these days?23:06
mathiazmelter: use google23:06
hadsI know it's great for the desktop, haven't run it in a server environment though.23:06
mathiazhads: yes23:06
mathiazhads: kvm is in main, xen in universe23:06
mathiazhads: you need to have the proper hardware though23:07
hadsI just thought KVM/Qemu was more for things with a graphical environment. I guess I need to do some more looking into it.23:07
meltermathiaz, that's what i've been doing, but it's a pain to have to switch back and forth23:17
owhsoren: Can you update the /topic to fix the server guide link?23:22
owhsoren: To save you searching: https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/serverguide/C/index.html23:22
sorenowh: Sure.23:24
owhsoren: Tah23:25
=== soren changed the topic of #ubuntu-server to: Ubuntu Server discussion and support || For general (not server specific) support visit #ubuntu || Get involved: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/GettingInvolved || Guide to asking questions on IRC: http://www.sabi.co.uk/Notes/linuxHelpAsk.html || http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html || Be patient. Don't ask to ask, just ask. || server guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/serverguide/C/index.html || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Serve
owhsoren: Now if you can drag a ubuntu-server vps out from somewhere I can stop working for the day :)23:25
sorenI'm afraid my magic hat is empty right now23:26
owhAh well, I'd better go and find a rabbit then.23:27
* ajmitch thinks the topic looks a little truncated now23:27
owhIt is, well spotted.23:27
owhsoren: We've been here before :)23:27
owhajmitch: That's interesting in itself. Last time it happend, it was at the same place IIRC.23:28
sorenowh: Not all that interesting. There's just limited space available, and we're cutting it close.23:29
owhsoren: I wondered if that was it. Isn't the wiki link for developers anyway?23:29
sorenWell... Mostly, I guess. So?23:30
owhWell, I'm thinking they'd already know the link, where visitors here, the ones that would care about the topic, would not need it readily.23:30
=== soren changed the topic of #ubuntu-server to: Ubuntu Server discussion and support || For general (not server specific) support visit #ubuntu || Get involved: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/GettingInvolved || Guide to asking questions on IRC: http://www.sabi.co.uk/Notes/linuxHelpAsk.html || http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html || Be patient. Don't ask to ask, just ask. || server guide: http://tinyurl.com/65jzxw || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
owhPerhaps I should finish that thought, soren, what I mean is that perhaps it's appropriate to delete the last link, rather than provide a tiny URL to official documentation.23:36
ajmitchso is there anything to do for intrepid, or are you aiming for hardy bugfixes for a week or two?23:37
sorenajmitch: I'll be working on hardy bugfixes for a bit. Intrepid's not even properly open anyway.23:37
ajmitchI know, I haven't even upgraded yet :)23:38
owhDo we have an ETA on vmware-server for Hardy?23:38
sorenajmitch: To intrepid? Sheesh, man! Get with the programme! :)23:39
ajmitchyou're right, at the moment I'm not even using ubuntu23:39
sorenOh, dear.23:39
* owh is reluctant to confess that the keyboard here is being processed by Gutsy :)23:40
ajmitchbut sid isn't all that bad...23:40
owhajmitch: ROTFL23:40
* ajmitch looks at the bug list & spots bug 1229623:42
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 12296 in php5 "PHP5 or PHP4 for apache2-mpm-worker" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229623:42
ajmitchugly php non-threadsafe libs23:42
sorenfastcgi ftw23:44
ajmitchif only I could just remove php from the servers here23:45
owhajmitch: But what is the alternative?23:46
ajmitchrewriting our main application in python or some other sane solution :)23:47
ajmitchmore than just a weekend's work23:47
owhajmitch: No kidding.23:47
owhajmitch: I've written software in over 20 languages - I lost count at some point - and for some reason PHP just "fits", mind you I'm spending more and more time with bash - Python never came above the radar. Any comments as to why you suggest this?23:48
ajmitchit has a number of inconsistencies & issues, and I'm also a big fan of more dynamic languages like python, which can be more flexible23:49
ajmitchespecially when you've got an old codebase that's designed around working with php4 and its 'less than adequate' OO model23:50
owhajmitch: You don't need to convince me that PHP has - let's put it kindly, "quirks", but why Python?23:51
ajmitchbecause it has a lot of the features in the language that I like to use, is well-documented, clean to both read & write, and there's a lot of supporting code for it out there23:52
owhajmitch: This indicates to me that there is another player around: http://www.google.com/trends?q=php%2Cpython23:54
ajmitchoh quite likely, but google trends is only 1 view of how things are :)23:55
owhajmitch: Of course :) ROTLF23:55
ajmitchit helps that there is good support for python in ubuntu, and use of it is encouraged :)23:56
owhajmitch: I had noticed that.23:56
owhajmitch: Another factor that had me looking around was that the meraki devices were running python.23:57
ajmitchyou won't find many of the ubuntu team saying good things about PHP23:57
* ajmitch watches soren wince23:57
Deepswhat's wrong with php?23:58
owhajmitch: No, I understand completely, I'm not even disagreeing with you. It's no longer evolving in a - "system administrator" - way, that is, there seems to me to be a grab for features, rather than maintainability. Mind you, the major issue with PHP is the end-users, the "script authors" who write abominations.23:58
Deepsit's well documented, clean to both read and write, and there's a tonne of supporting code for it out there23:59
owhDeeps: ROTFL23:59
ajmitchowh: part of the problem there is that the language has made it so easy for them to do so, and the php runtime itself hasn't been particularly stellar with security23:59

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