[00:27] <mohamed_> hello all, i have strange behaviour with network :)
[00:27] <mohamed_> i have one eth card and wlan  at the same pc ...
[00:28] <mohamed_> when eth connected wlan working if i disconnect eth0 wlan stop working
[00:28] <soulc> so should one upgrade to 8.04 server or what?
[00:28] <mohamed_> anyhelp ?
[00:53] <Cahan> soulc, not unless you have problems that will be solved by upgrading
[01:21] <owh> I have an rsync server which stores backups created with --link-dest. This means that the vast majority of the backup is actually a hard-link. I am trying to determine the actual disk space used by each backup. If I run du across one backup, I get the full size as if each file is real. If I run du across multiple, I get 22Mb for all but the first.
[01:21] <owh> 22Mb seems like a lot of space for a tree of hard links.
[01:21] <owh> How do I confirm that it is really 22Mb?
[01:34] <pschulz01> Greetings.. anyone know how to get the kernel to re-read a partition table?
[01:34] <pschulz01> (without rebooting)
[02:50] <pschulz01> What are 'audit' messages telling me in /var/log/messages?
[02:50] <pschulz01> I am trying to get slapd to use a different directory for it's database.
[02:50] <sommer> pschulz01: those are probably apparmor messages
[02:50] <sommer> pschulz01: yep, that'd do it
[02:51] <pschulz01> Ok.. how do I change them? This is a hardy alternate install.
[02:51] <sommer> pschulz01: you can either edit /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.slpad for the new directory or put the profile into complain mode
[02:52] <sommer> I'd suggest editing the file ;-)
[02:52] <pschulz01> sommer: Then what? (is there an /etc/init.d/apparmor restart?
[02:53] <pschulz01> sommer: What about sub-directories? eg. there is the line "/var/lib/ldap/* rw"
[02:54] <pschulz01> sommer: I have added to "/var/lib/ldap/<domain>"
[02:54] <pschulz01> sommer: Reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppArmor
[02:55] <sommer> pschulz01: ya, there's also information in the server guide about apparmor
[02:56] <sommer> if you edit the file then do /etc/init.d/apparmor restart it should reload
[02:56] <pschulz01> sommer: That link wasn't too helpful.
[02:56] <pschulz01> sommer: Excellent.. as expected then.
[02:56] <pschulz01> sommer: Reading http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/apparmor.html
[02:57] <sommer> pschulz01: cool, you can also find the guide on help.u.c :)
[03:00] <pschulz01> sommer: Ok.. putting it into 'complain' mode allowed slapd to run... now to edit the file. :-)
[03:05] <pschulz01> Aha.. double *
[03:07] <pschulz01> sommer: Is that worth submitting as a bug?
[03:09] <sommer> I think that's intended behavior
[03:09] <pschulz01> sommer: I'm now getting a message.. operation="file_lock" requested_mask="wk::" denied_mask="k::"
[03:10] <pschulz01> sommer: Looking to lock the file /var/lib/ldap/<domain>/alock
[03:10] <sommer> pschulz01: it's probably apparmor again, did you add all your changes to the apparmor profile file?
[03:10] <Xabriel> Hi guys, I need some help getting started. I want to set up a server to do two things: 1. act like a networked hard drive for my XP laptop. and 2. Create a web page that a few of my friends and I can use to access files over the internet. I'd like to know how the initial partitions should be, as well as what applications/services to use.
[03:11] <pschulz01> sommer: It is apparmour.. there is no mention of 'k' in the exisitng file, so I;m wondering if this is a bug in the exisitng profile.
[03:12] <Xabriel> I had started using debian, but I don't know enough about linux yet, and ubuntu has been less difficult for me to grasp so far
[03:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> Xabriel, you want samba+apache installed, a large /home/ and (depending on how you setup apache) a large /var/www
[03:12] <sommer> pschulz01: the existing profile covers the default files and behavior of slapd, if you change that then you need to edit the file
[03:12]  * Kamping_Kaiser wonders how much easier apt-get install is on ubuntu vs debian
[03:12] <pschulz01> Xabriel: Are you worried about messing up the system if you run out of disk space?
[03:12]  * pschulz01 stares at Kamping_Kaiser.. 
[03:13] <Xabriel> pschulz01,not particularly, I just got a 500 gig drive
[03:13] <pschulz01> Xabriel: Then the default partitioning is suitable.
[03:14]  * Kamping_Kaiser looks at pschulz01 - yu' aint from around here, are you boy?
[03:14] <Xabriel> pschulz01, should I have separate partitions for the files I will access through my home network and the ones I will use over the internet?
[03:14] <pschulz01> Xabriel: You could slice off a 5 or 10G partition if you wanted to, for the OS ('/').
[03:14] <pschulz01> Xabriel: Not necessary.
[03:15] <pschulz01> Xabriel: The file and web server will look after that for you.
[03:15] <Xabriel> pschulz01, how much swap should I set aside?
[03:15] <pschulz01> Xabriel: How much memeory do you have?
[03:16] <Xabriel> pschulz01, well I'm putting this together from old parts, I think I have about 768K
[03:16] <pschulz01> Xabriel: In the old days, the rule was 'double it'.
[03:16] <Xabriel> *mb
[03:16] <Xabriel> oy, big diff
[03:17] <pschulz01> Xabriel: You shouldn't end up getting into swap-ing (ie. use up all physical memeory) so 1G would be ample.
[03:18] <Xabriel> pschulz01, one thing I wanted to do, to keep people from messing w/ my server if they happen to find it, is have it so if they incorrectly enter the username and password more than 3 times, they get a permanent IP ban
[03:19] <Kamping_Kaiser> hope you dont try and log in drunk then ;)
[03:19] <pschulz01> Xabriel: fail2ban ? Kamping_Kaiser is that the package?
[03:20] <Xabriel> eh, if I screw up I can just go back in and remove it from the list :)
[03:20] <Kamping_Kaiser> pschulz01, its a package. looks fairly complex to setup (but i only had a quick look)
[03:21] <Xabriel> I figgure that will help to keep out brute force attacks
[03:21] <pschulz01> sommer: Adding 'k' the to apparmor profile stopped the message.. but there is no mention of it in the documentation as far as I can see.
[03:22] <pschulz01> sommer: Not even in the man page for apparmor.d
[03:22] <pschulz01> Time to submit some bugs.
[03:22] <sommer> pschulz01: hrmm, ya, there's a page in the wiki troubleshooting apparmor, or something similar, is it mentioned there?
[03:22] <pschulz01> sommer: link?
[03:23] <sommer> one sec
[03:23] <sommer> pschulz01: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingApparmor
[03:24] <cyris||> anyone around using ddns behind a PAT router? ez-ipupdate listens and updates on eth0 but then updates my ddns host with my private IP.
[03:25] <sommer> pschulz01: meh, I don't think that's the link I was originially thinking of, if you could create a bug against ubuntu-serverguide, I'll add it to the docs
[03:25] <pschulz01> sommer: No mention.. :-/ (Pion: Off I go then.)
[03:26] <Xabriel> what exactly are mount options?
[03:26] <pschulz01> Use 'default'
[03:26] <pschulz01> Xabriel: eg. 'ro' for read only.
[03:27] <Xabriel> pschulz01, but what if I want to write? hehe
[03:27] <pschulz01> Xabriel: Where is this mentioned?
[03:27] <pschulz01> Xabriel: 'rw' for read-write.
[03:28] <Xabriel> pschulz01, there's no "default" option
[03:28] <Xabriel> pschulz01, it was on relatime
[03:29] <pschulz01> Xabriel: Wha?
[03:29] <pschulz01> Xabriel: I am goin gto need more context.
[03:29] <Xabriel> pschulz01: "relatime - update inode access times relative to modify time"
[03:30] <Xabriel> pschulz01, (this is for "/")
[03:30] <pschulz01> Xabriel: Are you looking at the 'mount' man page?
[03:30] <Xabriel> pschulz01, yes
[03:31] <pschulz01> Xabriel: Using no options at all generally also works :-)
[03:31] <Kamping_Kaiser> Xabriel, any reason your not trusting Linux to sort out the mount options?
[03:31] <Xabriel> Kamping_Kaiser, no reason, just curious
[03:36] <Xabriel> what file system should I use for the main data partition
[03:36] <Xabriel> (where I'll dump all my stuff)
[03:36] <Kamping_Kaiser> ext3. always
[03:36] <Xabriel> will my XP computer be able to access that on?
[03:36] <Xabriel> *ok
[03:36] <pschulz01> Kamping_Kaiser: What.. not Rieser?
[03:37] <Kamping_Kaiser> pschulz01, he doesnt need dancing trees :p
[03:37] <Kamping_Kaiser> Xabriel, filesysetm is irrelevent to your xp box. samba is what'll make the difference
[03:37]  * Kamping_Kaiser afk lunch
[03:38] <Xabriel> I see
[03:38] <Kamping_Kaiser> copying 80bg of ubuntu mirror over usb is a good chance fora break :O
[03:39] <Xabriel> bg?
[03:39] <Xabriel> billion gigs?
[04:54] <fujin> how can I adjust $PATH system wide? having some funny isues with Gem packages.
[04:57] <nealmcb> fujin: /etc/environment and/or /etc/login.defs look likely
[04:57]  * nealmcb sighs
[04:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> heh
[06:26] <pschulz01> sommer: ping
[07:11] <RockHound> hi ... is there a way to install a 2.3 openldap on hardy?
[07:12] <zul> apt-get install slapd?
[07:25] <RockHound> that merges 2.4
[07:25] <RockHound> eerr ... installs
[08:00] <pschulz01> Kamping_Kaiser:
[08:00] <pschulz01> Kamping_Kaiser: ping
 hello I need to know if there is anyway that I can redo a download when ether it fails or is paused?
 that is on ubuntu server 7.10
[08:50] <soren> What sort of download?
[08:50] <soren> Which application are you using?
[08:51] <jay2> I well find out I am helping a friend out on undernet so its not me
[08:52] <jay2> sorry about that
[08:54] <jay2> mite take some time a dissconnect or net split :(
[09:01] <pschulz01> sommer: Thanks for your help earlier.. it wasn;t really a bug in apparmor
[09:52] <Fohdeesha> goooood mornin
[09:57]  * ogra waves 
[09:58] <ogra> is ayone of the server team looking after updating the docs on help.ubuntu.com to match new procedures introduced in hardy ?
[09:58] <ogra> i.e. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LDAPClientAuthentication
[09:58] <ogra> seems people have probs when following it on 8.04
[10:08] <Fohdeesha> lucent ding ding ding
[10:14] <jimcooncat> Can someone tell me why the following is the default? It seems so unsecure to me:
[10:14] <jimcooncat> By default, user home directories in Ubuntu are created with world read/execute permissions.
[10:18] <jimcooncat> I take it that if you're using a ltsp server that this would still hold true for each user that logs in from a thin client (?!?)
[10:19] <ogra> thin clients dont have anything to do with the homedir
[10:19] <soren> I would assume so, yes.
[10:21] <jimcooncat> I guess I should rephrase that: installing ubuntu's ltsp package won't fix directory permissions to ensure user privacy.
[10:21] <ogra> ltsp doesnt touch homedirs or user setups
[10:21] <ogra> you can set it yourself in /etc/login.defs
[10:21] <ogra> look for umask
[10:22] <\sh> wasn't there an option in d-i these days, d-i was asking if you want world readable/executable home dirs or not
[10:22] <jimcooncat> thanks ogra
[10:22] <ogra> might be in expert mode
[10:22] <jimcooncat> \sh: good, I'll check that out, since I'm using netboot installs
[10:22] <\sh> or did I mix it up now with the debian os install...I saw it the last time I installed ubuntu or debian...
[10:23] <blue-frog_> jimcooncat: for ne wusers ot depends how you create them
[10:23] <jimcooncat> I see i can fix it for new users in /etc/adduser.conf
[10:24] <ogra> right
[10:24] <blue-frog_> useradd cretaes home dir with rx for others while adduser creates it with x only
[10:24] <ogra> dont use useradd, adduser is what you want
[10:25] <jimcooncat> iirc, useradd is a wrapper for adduser anyway
[10:25] <ogra> other way round :)
[10:25] <blue-frog_> on the sie how do you adduser in a script?
[10:25] <ogra> useradd is something to use from scripts etc ...
[10:25] <jimcooncat> oh, I guess I didn't iirc :-)
[10:25] <blue-frog_> how do you use adduser in a script?
[10:26] <blue-frog_> then it would be nice if by default useradd was giving same defaults as adduser
[10:26] <ogra> blue-frog_, you dont, thats what you have useradd for  ...
[10:26] <ogra> adduser is a maintenance tool, useradd is a backend
[10:27] <blue-frog_> ogra: yes but default for useradd have changed a while ago and it is a bit annoying
[10:27] <ogra> if you do normal maintenance tasks never use useradd
[10:31] <jimcooncat> When using ltsp or other shared access, how do you keep firefox memory usage from being a problem? I doubt my users would get in the habit of killing firefox-bin once in a while to restore memory like I do on my machine.
[10:32] <blue-frog> sorry got disc... one more question about adduser
[10:34] <blue-frog> in adduser.conf we have DIR_MODE=0755 so if I understand correctly the homedir should be created with 755 but  it is created with 751, any explanation?
[10:35] <ogra> jimcooncat, ff3 handles ram way better than the -2 version did, general rule of thumb for ltsp is to have 128M per session on the server plus 256M for th server itself
[10:37] <jimcooncat> ogra, that's good to hear. I haven't tested hardy yet, I could see that was going to be a problem with ff2. I was hoping to avoid replacing the one familiar program they had with epiphany or something else.
[11:12] <jimcooncat> \sh: found it! # Do you want system wide readable home directories?
[11:12] <jimcooncat> adduser	adduser/homedir-permission	boolean	true
[11:30] <venil> hi, how do i add dns lookup ip?
[11:30] <venil> my network is up and running, but no DNS lookups work
[11:31] <venil> anyone?
[11:32] <jords> venil: try dig
[11:33] <jords> might need to google for the package it's in, can't remember....
[11:34] <venil> whats dig?
[11:36] <ogra> ogra@osiris:~$ dpkg -S /usr/bin/dig
[11:36] <ogra> dnsutils: /usr/bin/dig
[11:36] <ogra> its installed by default
[11:37] <venil> is it not just enough to add dns to /etc/network/interfaces
[11:39] <ogra> depends what you want to achive with your server
[11:39] <ogra> but you should rather add it to resolv.conf
[11:40] <venil> arghh!!! thanks orga, resolf.conf is what i was looking for
[11:45] <zazuge> hello
[11:46] <zazuge> I got a problem with postfix ,can anybody help me?
[11:47] <lamont> not without knowing what the problem is
[11:48] <zazuge> thanks for replying, it's about sender relay maps
[11:50] <venil> guys, how can i bind mysqld to more than one ip address
[11:50] <venil> can i just bind-address in my.cnf several ip adresses?
[11:51] <zazuge> to be exact I've setup a the mail server correctly to relay throught yahoo and gmail smtp servers it worked well with , but the problem is with smtp_sender_dependent_authentication it seems that postfix use only the relayhost parametre and not sender_dependent_relayhost_maps
[11:55] <zazuge> I'll reformulate the question
[11:55] <zazuge> have two account one on yahoo ,and the other on gmail
[11:55] <zazuge> I configured postfix and fetchmail to send and recive mail throught
[11:55] <zazuge> my yahoo account , with proper adress rewriting and all.
[11:55] <zazuge> after that I did the same with gmail and added the certificate to let me send and recive throught gmail but the side effect is that i can no longer send with yahoo smtp server.
[11:55] <zazuge> next i wanted to cohabitate the 2 setups
[11:55] <zazuge> I used these line
[11:55] <zazuge> smtp_sender_dependent_authentication = yes
[11:55] <zazuge> sender_dependent_relayhost_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/sender_relay
[11:56] <zazuge> but nothing it just seem that the only effective line is relayhost = smtp.mail.yahoo.fr:25
[11:57] <zazuge> and if I try to comment it I get connect to yahoo.fr[217.12.6.29]: Connection timed out (port 25)
[11:57]  * lamont hasn't used sender_dep_auth
[11:57] <zazuge> connect to gmail.com[72.14.253.83]: Connection timed out (port 25)
[11:58] <lamont> worst case, one could use transport maps to force the config diffs between them, although it does sound lik sender_dep_auth could be talked into doing what you want
[11:58] <zazuge> thanks lamont i'll check this one :-)
[11:59] <gaouzief> hi people
[12:00] <gaouzief> i have an issue maybe someone can help
[12:00] <gaouzief> while installing 8.04 server i misspelled host name
[12:00] <gaouzief> ounce installed i went in /etc/hosts and corrected spelling manually
[12:01] <gaouzief> now sudo won't work, even after reboot
[12:01] <gaouzief> how can i fix this?
[12:01] <blue-frog> gaouzief: you need to fix /etc/hostname aswell
[12:01] <ogra> did you fix /etc/hostname too ?
[12:01] <gaouzief> nope
[12:01] <gaouzief> can't access that anymore
[12:01] <ogra> boot into recovery mode and fix it :)
[12:02] <gaouzief> okay, in recovery mode i should mount th / partition?
[12:02] <ogra> no
[12:02] <gaouzief> what then
[12:02] <ogra> just boot into recovery mode f the installed system
[12:02] <ogra> *of
[12:02] <ogra> the one grub offers
[12:02] <gaouzief> ok not the CD recovery mode
[12:03] <ogra> nope
[12:03] <gaouzief> ok i'll try that
[12:03] <ogra> hit esc if you see the grub countdown
[12:13] <gaouzief> worked
[12:13] <gaouzief> thks
[12:13] <zazuge> exit
[12:14] <gaouzief> but this should be fixed somehow, it's a common mistake
[12:19] <phil_> how should one fix that people forget to change /etc/hostname accordingly? :)
[12:19] <phil_> ah nevermind, he left..
[12:47] <dendrobates> morning all
[12:48] <sommer> morning dendrobates
[12:54] <ScottK> sommer: clamav 0.92.1 backports to Feisty/Gutsy are done.
[12:58] <zul> morning
[13:00] <ScottK> Good morning.
[13:12] <venil> how can i permanently setup env. variable, so that it remains after reboot
[13:22] <dthacker> venii: for a login shell?
[13:23] <dthacker> venil: Are you setting this variable for a login shell?
[13:24] <venil> i need to set JAVA_HOME for tomcat to work properly
[13:24] <zul> venil: you can edit /etc/profile
[13:24] <ogra> you shouldnt set JAVA_HOME though, the java packages set it up properly
[13:25] <ogra> (JAVA_HOME isnt supposed to be used on debian based systems)
[13:25] <venil> well, tomcat gives an error if its not setup
[13:25] <ogra> not here
[13:25] <ogra> at least with the package
[13:26] <dthacker> that was my next question.  Did you install with the package?
[13:26] <venil> nope, just downloaded from their website
[13:27] <venil> i should have probably done apt-get install tomcat5.5 ??
[13:27] <ogra> yeah :)
[13:28] <venil> well, i tried that before, its kinda different from what original tomcat55 has to offer, it runs on a different port for example
[13:29] <ogra> thats easy to change in the config file
[13:29] <dthacker> venil: In my experience,  the advantages of working within the package management system outweigh the disadvantages.
[13:30] <venil> so if i do apt-get, will it also download jre for me??
[13:30] <venil> as i already have it installed, not thru packages
[13:30] <ogra> ouch
[13:30] <dthacker> ewww
[13:30] <ogra> it would default to the already installed java on your system that comes with the default install
[13:31] <ogra> you could install the sun java engine from multiverse to make it work with that
[13:31] <ogra> no clue how to make it work with manually installed java
[13:32] <venil> no worrie, its easy to uninstall, ( ii guess o_O ??)
[13:33] <venil> can you walk me thru the right way please?
[13:33]  * ogra has no clue where the java installer puts what or which files of the original java it replaces blindly without asking
[13:33] <ogra> so no, i cant
[13:34] <venil> i know how to enable multiverse, how do i install the JAVA package though??
[13:35] <sommer> ScottK: cool, does that version need backported to dapper as well?
[13:35] <ScottK> Already done.
[13:35] <ScottK> Since we'd already got the libclamav3 transition done in Dapper, it was simple.
[13:35] <ogra> venil,  apt-cache search sun-java
[13:36] <ogra> make your pick
[13:36] <ScottK> sommer: libclamav4 and clamav 0.93 is here, so no rest for the weary.
[13:36] <venil> i just discovered that multivesre is enabled by default in 8.04 is that ruight??
[13:36] <ScottK> Yes.
[13:36] <ScottK> Nothing is installed from it in any default installation though
[13:37] <ScottK> IIRC it's been that way since Feisty.
[13:38] <sommer> ScottK: ah, just let me know when it needs testing :-)
[13:39] <ScottK> sommer: What really needs doing is looking in the Fedora 9 repository for patches.  They had a klamav patch, but I haven't looked at the rest.
[13:40] <sommer> ScottK: sounds intersting, so you mean patches for applications that use clamav or clamav itself?
[13:41] <ScottK> sommer: All the packages that build against libclamav.  See the team wiki page.  I just updated it.
[13:42] <sommer> ScottK: okay, I'll take a look today
[13:42] <shashi>  I am using Ubuntu 8.04 64-bit version, if i install any 32-bit applications like browsers, datbase clients ...etc. The 32-bit based applications not able to reach /etc/resolv.conf file to communicate to the network. Any one tell me how to resolve this issue ?
[13:42] <Viper111> guys when i am connecting to my ubuntu server through VPN PPtp i will be disconnected from the network
[13:45] <ScottK> shashi: Spamming multiple channels will get you fewer answers, not more.
[13:48] <venil> what is the default port tomcat55 is running on (not 8080), i cant even check whether its running or not
[13:51] <venil> which conf file do i edit, to change the default port??
[13:57] <phil_> /etc/tomcat5.5/server.xml should have some connectors defined
[13:58] <phil_> I think it is 8180 per default for non-ssl
[13:58] <wo0f> yo guys
[13:58] <wo0f> does anyone know a good tutorial for setting up a terminal server with ubuntu?
[13:58] <wo0f> cant find anything decent on google
[13:59] <wo0f> with tight vnc tbh
[14:04] <\sh> wo0f, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VNC ?
[14:05] <\sh> I wonder for what someone needs a terminal server on linux/unix while there is ssh or a network protocol named Xwindow
[14:06] <venil> ssh rulz
[14:16] <oxtub> Using libnss-ldap and libpam-ldap to authenticate users on a 2003 Microsoft AD, anyone have any clues why logins would just hang forever? Users show up in `getent passwd`, and incorrect passwords are rejected, but correct passwords and su's to ldap accounts just hang forever.
[14:32] <sommer> oxtub: do you have pam configured to use ldap, and winbind?
[14:34] <sommer> oxtub: also, likewise-open greatly simplifies the configuration
[14:34] <ikonia> is there any senario where an ubuntu-server installl will install lilo instead of grub as default. I have a user in #ubuntu saying thats what happened
[14:35] <sommer> ikonia: not that I've ever seen
[14:36] <ikonia> as I suspected also
[14:36] <ikonia> thank you
[14:45] <wo0f> \sh: cheers man.
[14:45] <\sh> wo0f, helped?
[14:47] <wo0f> ikonia: no i don't think so
[14:47] <wo0f> ikonia: theres not even an option for that anymore
[14:47] <wo0f> unless your using a really old version, but tbh, has ubuntu ever used lilo?
[14:47] <wo0f> \sh: yeh cheers mate.
[14:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> nope
[14:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> silo on sparc, but not lilo
[14:52] <klaf> Humm, where can I find jeos to download?
[15:00] <bamed> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/jeos/releases/
[15:07] <klaf> bamed: Thx, trying it out now.
[15:16] <ikonia> wo0f: thank you
[15:39] <klaf> What do you think. Is ebox the thing to use for colleagues  that not want to use bash? On our old physical debian servers we used webmin...
[15:41]  * Kamping_Kaiser recomends a cluebat
[15:41] <ScottK> webmin was removed from both Debian and Ubuntu because it's config file management system is incompatible.
[15:41] <ScottK> You can think of ebox as a more reliable replacement for webmin for someone who would want such a thing.
[15:42] <klaf> ScottK: That is why I am looking at sumfink else than webmin.
[15:42] <ScottK> Then ebox is likely what you're after.
[15:42]  * ScottK doesn't use it personally.
[15:43] <klaf> ScottK: We used to manage bind with webmin. I need to find sumthing else, beq ppl here do not want to edit the zone files themself. :)
[15:43] <faulkes-> hrmm, it would appear the forum team removed our moderation privileges when the installed the new forum stuff
[15:43] <faulkes-> as well as assuming ownership of the post we had there
[15:43] <\sh> klaf, powerdns?
[15:43]  * faulkes- has been up all night fixing a downed PDC
[15:43]  * faulkes- is not impressed today
[15:44] <ScottK> Not sure if a bind module made it into Hardy or not.
[15:44]  * ScottK bets soren knows.
[15:44]  * ScottK runs off to a meeting....
[15:45] <\sh> klaf, or mysqlbind (http://freshmeat.net/projects/mysqlbind/)
[15:45] <klaf> \sh: is it a wrapper around bind?
[15:45] <\sh> klaf, powerdns is a DNS Server with webfrontend
[15:45] <klaf> ScottK: Thanx for the hel
[15:45] <\sh> klaf, mysqlbind is a webfrontend for bind
[15:45] <klaf> \sh: Ah, I'm a bind9 fella :p
[15:46] <klaf> !mysqlbind
[15:46] <virtbot`> klaf: Error: "mysqlbind" is not a valid command.
[15:46] <\sh> actually, webmin was a cool solution in the early days of the internet boom, early to mid 90ties
[15:46] <\sh> I installed in on several customer servers..and wrote these days the qmail webmin module
[15:47] <klaf> \sh: Well, you know that debian servers are stable. It it works don't touch it.. Except security fixes :p
[15:48] <\sh> klaf, debian is stable...but not the admin who works on those servers...;) after all, normally you have many cases where web-admin-stuff doesn't work as expected
[15:49] <klaf> \sh: Oh, I've used the qmail module further back in time
[15:49] <\sh> klaf, the qmail.wbm or the qmailwebmin module..there are two of them...:)
[15:50] <klaf> \sh: Exactly, some modules really fscked up the configs. On the qmail module, I don't really remember, lately I mostly use postfix.
[15:51] <klaf> \sh: Have you used mysqlbind?
[15:52] <\sh> klaf, nope...I'm using some selfmade scripts to add hosts etc. to my zone files...but in our company we are using mysqlbind...(well, actually we hacked some stuff into it, so it fits with our special setup)
[15:53] <\sh> klaf, I'm waiting for a new root server for my private fun, and I wanted to setup powerdns to see how it works ... it could be a good solution for customers who wants to self-admin their dns zone files
[15:55]  * faulkes- prefers vi for zone files
[15:56] <\sh> faulkes-, yes..for single zone files...that's nice ;) for several hundreds or more manual editing is a pain in da ass, when you are e.g. a webhoster ;)
[15:56] <faulkes-> Subject: Launchpad: changes to your project's licence record
[15:56] <faulkes-> ORLY
[15:56]  * faulkes- eyes Canonical
[15:59] <soren> ScottK: A "bind module"? -ENOCONTEXT
[16:01] <faulkes-> soren: for eBox iirc
[16:01] <soren> Oh.
[16:02] <soren> ebox-dns should to that.
[16:02] <klaf> soren: Ah, thankx..
[16:03]  * klaf looking it up now
[16:31] <elventear> I have a small problem, on 8.04-server. When the box finishes booting the services it doesn't show the login prompt in tty0. Any ideas what might cause this?
[16:38] <\sh> elventear, press enter ;)
[16:38] <elventear> Nothing happens, really
[16:38] <\sh> hmm?
[16:39] <\sh> elventear, and on tty1?
[16:39] <ogra> but you have login promps on the other consoles ?
[16:39] <elventear> I have login in the other ttys
[16:39] <elventear> Yup
[16:39] <elventear> And full network access and everything
[16:39] <elventear> That is why I say it's minor, but weird
[16:39] <ogra> that the prompt scrolls away on tty0 is a known upstart bug
[16:40] <ogra> but you should get to it once you hit enter
[16:40] <elventear> ogra: I had set the system to wait until the service startup was done
[16:40] <elventear> So that didn't happen
[16:40] <elventear> But now I don't get the the prompt at all
[16:40] <elventear> I have reverted the setting, but still it does the same
[16:41] <melter> i'm trying to install openssh from the installer, and it's failing, is this a known problem?
[16:44] <zul> failing as in how?
[16:48] <melter> Installation step failed: "An installation step failed. You can try to run the failing item again from the menu, or skip it and choose something else. The failing step is: Select and install software"
[16:48] <ogra> did you check the CD ?
[16:48] <melter> no
[16:48] <ogra> sounds like a corupted iso
[16:48] <melter> i'll do that now
[16:55] <melter> "The CD-ROM integrity test was successful. The CD-ROM is valid."
[16:57] <melter> are there MD5 sums somewhere?
[16:57] <melter> nm, found em
[16:58] <melter> "ubuntu-8.04-server-i386.iso: OK"
[17:02] <rarn> is there a way to install a paravirt ubuntu image from cd? I looked at  jeos and it doesnt seem to do xen. i'm running on an opensolaris dom0
[17:06] <good_dana> rarn: i believe that all ubuntu kernels are paravirtualized
[17:08] <rarn> hmm - will they be set for a serial console?
[17:08] <rarn> I'll try that now
[17:08] <Malbojia> I'm looking for someone who has completed a samba migration from distro y to distro x. Having issues with logins associated to folders
[17:12] <rarn> good_dana, using virt-install, it doesn't like the server iso
[17:12] <rarn> unless i do a HVM
[17:16] <phaidros> hi, whats the tool / way of choice to handle webapps for multiple users on ubuntu?
[17:17] <phaidros> like mediawiki installed via dpkg ..
[17:17] <phaidros> I am usually giving each user the unpacked tarball to their space ..
[17:24] <phaidros> under gentoo there is webapp-config
[17:27] <mathiaz> soren: uvirtbot ?? why do we start to receive new bugs notification in here ?
[17:29] <soren> It's bugs that the server team is subscribed to. I thought it'd be a nice way to get notified about new bugs.
[17:33] <morick> so you never went bowling with goebbels either?
[17:34] <soren> mathiaz: You don't like it?
[17:34] <morick> so you never went bowling with goebbels either?
[17:37] <mathiaz> soren: hmm.. Wouldn't that start to clutter the channel ?
[17:38] <mathiaz> soren: ubotu was removed from #ubuntu-bugs for that specific reason
[17:38] <mathiaz> soren: we can discuss that in the meeting later today
[17:41] <melter> i started the install over, and now it works ok
[17:51] <faulkes-> mathiaz: won't be at the meeting today
[17:53] <nxvl> did someone know's who is in charge of shop.canonical.com?
[17:55] <soren> mathiaz: Do we get that many bugs, you think?
[17:55] <soren> The fact that ubottu repeats them all is a bit much, though.
[17:56] <mathiaz> soren: well - I'm not sure we gain so much by announcing bugs here.
[17:57] <mathiaz> soren: I tend to be against clutterring the channel with useless information
[17:57] <mathiaz> soren: I already receive bug notification by email
[17:57] <mathiaz> soren: I get them in one place, and that's enough
[17:58] <mathiaz> soren: I'm not sure what is the advantage of being notified in real time about new bugs
[18:07] <soren> I find it rather handy, actually.
[18:07] <nealmcb> mathiaz: it makes it easier for folks to discuss it - no one needs to manually paste them
[18:08] <nealmcb> but one copy is enough....
[18:08] <mathiaz> nealmcb: oh - I don't say that ubottu should not be here
[18:09] <mathiaz> nealmcb: I question the need to announce *new* bugs
[18:09] <soren> I just like to get notified about new bugs. I need to really work up an attitude to look through my bug mail, but I'd still like to know about *new* bugs quickly.
[18:11] <soren> It's only server bugs, after all. It's not like ubuntu-bugs that announces a new bug each minute.
[18:11] <nealmcb> mathiaz: and I think that having the bot help to start conversations about new bugs is handy
[18:13] <mathiaz> nealmcb: hmmm - good point
[18:13] <zul> I find it handy as well to be honest as well
[18:14] <mathiaz> I guess it's a matter of persnal taste and how one gets organized
[18:14] <mathiaz> we should give it a try
[18:35] <Ludwik> Hi, I just reported two new bugs connected to NIS/NFS and Ubuntu 8.04 on Launchpad, but I'm new to the Launchpad thing so I would appreciate if someone would take a look at them, for example I'm not sure what do they affect. If somebody know some workarounds for my problems that of course would also be very appreciated ;)
[18:35] <Ludwik> The first one - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/224820
[18:35] <Ludwik> The second one - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nis/+bug/224828
[18:39] <ogra> wow, NIS ?
[18:39]  * ogra wouldnt have thought there are still people using it 
[18:40] <ogra> Ludwik, the first one is rather a bug for the desktop team
[18:41] <zul> ogra: we still used it at my old workplace for some cadence stuff
[18:42] <Ludwik> We use NIS/NFS for quite a long time. What are a goot alternatives?
[18:42] <ogra> Ludwik, i fixed the ubuntu-meta assignment to properly point to gnome-control-center
[18:42] <ogra> so the right people get notified
[18:44] <Ludwik> ogra - thank you :)
[18:46] <Ludwik> Ogra - so what do people use now insted of NIS?
[18:48] <ogra> usually LDAP
[18:58] <zul> ldap
[19:09] <nelydajo> Hi All. Does any one know of a tool to manage (add/edit/delete/import) many users in a school lab environment? GUI tool would be preferable.
[19:14] <Ludwik> nelydajo: I use NFS/NIS for this task, but they've just told me I should use LDAP instead
[19:15] <Ludwik> (those technologies let you synchronize accounts from a central server)
[19:18] <ogra> Ludwik, we didnt tell you you *should* use it :)
[19:18] <ogra> i was just surprised to see someone still using NIS :)
[19:20] <ogra> i personally would rather set up a central machine and have ssh warpped rsync scripts syncing up the passwd/groups/shadow files than using an ldap server ;)
[19:20] <ogra> (at least up to a certain amount of users)
[19:22] <carignou> Hello
[19:22] <mathiaz> ogra: numbers of machines would be the limiting factor rather than users IMO
[19:22] <nelydajo> My understanding is that ldap is a central 'database' of user details. What front-end would you used to edit these details? How do these get translated into actual accounts on the user's computer.
[19:23] <mathiaz> ogra: you'd also have to handle machines that are not available when you update your central database
[19:23] <carignou> I installed ubuntu server yesterday and i have a weird internet problem : I can ping www.google.com but i can't wget www.google.com and i can't "sudo apt-get update" but i can wget www.sedoparking.de. Does it inspire you ?
[19:23] <ogra> mathiaz, well, with > 1000 users a passwd file gaets tricky to handle
[19:23] <mathiaz> ogra: ldap is more a pull model - rsync scripts is more a push model
[19:23] <nelydajo> I'm talking about a thin-client environment, so the users are actually only logging onto the central server.
[19:23] <ogra> mathiaz, i had such a setup when i worked at an ISP for 200 servers with about 600 users
[19:24] <ogra> the machines all had poll scripts
[19:24] <ogra> (back in '96 btw :) no ldap at that time )
[19:24] <Ludwik> ogra - it wouldn't work very well in our envirement, because some of our machines are laptop computers, and I can't count on them being turn on on a given time
[19:24] <mathiaz> ogra: right - did you have a way to notify machines that they should pull new info ?
[19:25] <ogra> no we had cron scripts
[19:25] <mathiaz> Ludwik: in a pull model it wouldn't matter - laptop would just pull info when they're available
[19:25] <ogra> polling all 5 mins
[19:26] <ogra> it were all servers not workstations it didnt need to be fast
[19:26] <mathiaz> ogra: right - so changing a user password or group info would take up to 5 minutes to propagate
[19:26] <ogra> right
[19:26] <mathiaz> ogra: correct - depending on which services you're running that can be an option
[19:26] <ogra> but still you only have to maintain one file and drop the script and keys into new machines
[19:26] <mathiaz> ogra: some services may require instaneous accurate account information
[19:28] <ogra> yeah, indeed
[19:29] <mathiaz> ogra: OTOH the script approach is handy because it makes servers working in standalone mode
[19:29] <mathiaz> ogra: if the ldap server goes down, you're screwed :/
[19:29] <ogra> yup, that was the plan
[19:29] <ogra> xactly
[19:29] <ogra> the prob we had back then was that shadow wasnt properly overwritable without fiddling
[19:30] <ogra> that forced is to  a plain passwd file which is rather not optimal
[19:30] <Ludwik> For example when a student comes to you on a begining of the lesson that she've forgotten her passoword and wants to change it you don't want her to wait not following your instrucion until the passowrds propagate ;)
[19:30] <ogra> s/is/us/
[19:30] <mathiaz> Ludwik: right - this is why you need to have pull function also
[19:30] <ogra> Ludwik, you can adjust the cron scripts
[19:30] <ogra> to shorter cycles
[19:30] <mathiaz> Ludwik: a manual pull script
[19:31] <nealmcb> nelydajo: hmm - doesn't ebox manage things via ldap - it has a (web-based) gui
[19:31] <ogra> or you can even push
[19:31] <nealmcb> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/eBox
[19:31] <nelydajo> nealmcb, Tx - I'll have a look at ebox.
[19:31] <mathiaz> correct - you need to have an infrastructure to push/pull automatically/manually
[19:31] <mathiaz> the problem in the push model is how to handle machines that are not available
[19:32] <Ludwik> So in the push/pull scenerio both server and desktops would have ssh demons installed?
[19:32] <mathiaz> Ludwik: oh yes -
[19:32] <nelydajo> I'm trying to help a school teacher who new to linux, and has 35 classes with about 20 students each. Class lists available from admin in spreadsheets.
[19:32] <mathiaz> Ludwik: implementing a push/pull infrastructure is based around ssh and public keys
[19:34] <Ludwik> nelydajo - I'm a school teacher and my current NIS/NFS configuration is preaty simple (doesn't have frontend, though). I just followed the instrukction in Ubuntu wiki.
[19:35] <Ludwik> And than you have one central computer in which you add new accounts
[19:35] <Ludwik> and the rest of them just use those
[19:36] <ogra> mathiaz, btw do you get these many ltsp users every day in here ?
[19:37] <mathiaz> ogra: nope - it's a first - what did you do ?
[19:37] <ogra> i'm quite surprised, i dont think i ever spent a day in this channel and notice today that its full of thin client users
[19:37]  * carignou is crying
[19:38] <nelydajo> Ludwik, could you give me the URL for NIS/NFS wiki?
[19:38] <Ludwik> nelydajo: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SettingUpNISHowTo
[19:38] <_ruben> hmm .. wonder if the open-vm-tools package is still available somehow
[19:38] <nelydajo> Ludwik, Thanks!
[19:38]  * mathiaz pictures the crowd of ltsp users following ogra wherever he goes
[19:39] <nelydajo> Is someone poking fun at ltsp users? :-D
[19:39] <ogra> lol
[19:39] <Ludwik> nelydajo: and for the NFS component - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SettingUpNFSHowTo?
[19:40] <nelydajo> Ludwik, thanks again.
[19:41] <ogra> mathiaz, i added -server to my default channels now ... feel free to point ltsp probs in my direction
[19:41] <mathiaz> ogra: sure :)
[20:10] <nealmcb> how can I search from the command line by keyword for packages in main, or in the server seed?  (e.g. supported ldap-related packages)
[20:12]  * nealmcb notes that there are some nice searches at http://packages.ubuntu.com/)
[20:16] <nealmcb> nelydajo: I haven't used any of these - but also notice  ldap-account-manager
[20:16] <nealmcb> !info ldap-account-manager
[20:19] <blue-frog> nealmcb: I would say enable only main in sources.list, update and then apt-cache search should do the trick
[20:19] <blue-frog> apt-cache search ldap
[20:19] <nealmcb> blue-frog: interesting.  a bit drastic....
[20:20] <mathiaz> nealmcb: isn't there an option on apt-cache or rmadison to specify which component to include ?
[20:20] <blue-frog> ther is a madison option in pat-cache but I do not know what it is for
[20:20] <Fishscene> Does anyone know where I can find the recommended requirements for Ubuntu Server HH (8.x)?
[20:20] <Ludwik> IMO aptitude search ~Amain ldap should work...
[20:21] <nealmcb> mathiaz: I was looking.  I think part of the issue is that apt-cache is agnostic in relation to distros, so it doesn't mention "universe" in the doc, or even "component"
[20:22] <nealmcb> they seem to creep in in terms of parallel trees of the "section" value
[20:22] <mathiaz> nealmcb: right - debian has the equivalent of component, they're just called differently
[20:22] <nealmcb> but apt-cache man page doesn't even mention "section"
[20:23] <nelydajo> nealmcb, Thanks - ldap-account-manager looks like it may do the job. I will give it a try.
[20:24] <nealmcb> nelydajo: we'd love to hear your experiences also....
[20:36] <blue-frog> nealmcb: apparently aptitude search main ldap will only look in main
[20:37] <nealmcb> blue-frog: interesting....
[20:37] <blue-frog> no
[20:37] <blue-frog> does not
[20:40] <nealmcb> but it has some fancy patterns and parameter searches: http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/ch02s03s01.html
[20:49] <nealmcb> blue-frog: well, this is close - aptitude search "! ~suniverse ldap"
[20:49] <blue-frog> nealmcb: think I have it. let try a loop
[20:51] <blue-frog> yes working, there you go
[20:51] <blue-frog> for i in $(apt-cache search ldap); do apt-cache madison $i | grep "/main"; done
[20:52] <blue-frog> only packages in related to LDAP and in main
[20:56] <nealmcb> somehow this is not the friendly ubuntu I think we're shooting for, if it is this hard to help people find LTS supported packages....
[20:57] <nealmcb> I love playing with grep, but don't want to explain that to the non-profit business manager down the street....
[20:57] <blue-frog> ?
[20:58] <blue-frog> why would a manager put his hand in a server?
[21:05] <ivoks> one more hour?
[21:05] <ivoks> uff... :/
[21:12] <Sylphid|work> im sure this is the wrong place to ask but im not sure where to look .... is it possible to run an ssh server on windows and export the display to an X server
[21:15] <blue-frog_> the real question being what do you need to do?
[21:17] <Sylphid|work> i have an application that my company uses that will not run on linux... even with wine
[21:17] <Sylphid|work> there are approximatly 5 of us that would prefer running soley linux on our workstations but cant because of this app
[21:18] <blue-frog_> so access your windows with ts client
[21:18] <ivoks> remote desktop?
[21:18] <blue-frog_> oh but this apps is not on a windows server?
[21:18] <Sylphid|work> that would only allow 1 person to be on at a time though
[21:18] <blue-frog_> no other apps can replace this apps?
[21:19] <Sylphid|work> not at this time
[21:19] <Sylphid|work> its billing software
[21:19] <blue-frog_> blling as in accounting?
[21:19] <Sylphid|work> correct
[21:19] <blue-frog_> or client billing
[21:19] <Sylphid|work> platypus
[21:19] <blue-frog_> shoot it
[21:19] <Sylphid|work> client billing
[21:20] <blue-frog_> maybe it's time to insvestigate an open source solution
[21:20] <Sylphid|work> agreed
[21:20]  * delcoyote hi
[21:20] <Sylphid|work> we are however that solution is 2 years down the road or more...according to management
[21:22] <Sylphid|work> so what im hoping to do in the mean time is run an ssh server on a windows box and just have the users start an instance with the display exported to there local box.... if its possible
[21:22] <mathiaz> Sylphid|work: you'd have to use rdesktop and a terminal server
[21:23] <blue-frog_> ask management (well be subtle) what is best pay softwares, get no support lose time and money or don't pay softwares (eventually you can pay for it as well) pay for support so that you can focus on your job
[21:23] <ivoks> too tired... good night
[21:23] <mathiaz> bye ivoks
[21:24] <blue-frog_> even with ssh server you will have a problem, if I understand well how would you launch two instances of your software from the same windows
[21:24] <blue-frog_> as in windows PC
[21:25] <Sylphid|work> the software seems to handle multiple instances fine
[21:25] <Sylphid|work> as far as i can tell
[21:25] <mathiaz> Sylphid|work: may be - but you may need multiple instance of Windows running
[21:26] <mathiaz> Sylphid|work: IIRC remote user are limited according to which version of Windows you're using
[21:26] <Sylphid|work> mathiaz, i see what your saying but thats if i use a rdesktop solution
[21:26] <mathiaz> Sylphid|work: like XP Home can handle 1 remote user, XP Professional up to 3 concurrent remote users (or something like that - I don't know the numbers)
[21:26] <Sylphid|work> mathiaz, im looking to aviod rdesktop if possible
[21:27] <mathiaz> Sylphid|work: yes - rdesktop is the only solution AFAICT
[21:27] <mathiaz> Sylphid|work: windows apps don't understand the X architecture
[21:27] <mathiaz> Sylphid|work: you cannot run a Windows App on a X server
[21:29] <Sylphid|work> to bad..... ok thanks for the help mathiaz and blue-frog_
[21:29] <_ruben> whats wrong with remote desktop?
[21:30] <Sylphid|work> nothing per say... just was wanting to avoid it if possible
[21:31] <_ruben> which doesnt make sense .. why avoid smth when there's no apparent reason to do .. especially with seamless remote desktop (exporting single windows, not complete desktop)
[21:32] <mathiaz> right - rdesktop really works well - even over VPN and internet links
[21:32] <Malbojia> good afternoon
[21:40] <mathiaz> soren: I've tried to install fedora9 on my server with kvm - it leads to a DOS error call: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mathiaz/fedora9_install.png
[21:45] <soren> Yeah, there's a bug about it already. I haven't had a chance to look into it yet.
[22:07] <melter> has anyone here ever switched from Gentoo to Ubuntu for servers? are there any resources to help make the move easier?
[22:27]  * owh tests the bot.
[22:27] <owh> !webmin
[22:28] <owh> !ebox
[22:28] <soren> ubottu is a different bot.
[22:28] <soren> Having two bots here is disturbing, though.
[22:28]  * soren would like to find a reasonable compromise
[22:28] <RoAkSoAx> should change the special character that they responde to
[22:29] <RoAkSoAx> one should be like @ something and the other ! or something like that
[22:31] <soren> I'm already doing that :)
[22:35] <owh> melter: The only document I came across was this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FromGentooToKubuntu, it talks about moving to Kubuntu, not to ubuntu-server, but it might get you started.
[22:35] <owh> melter: And of course GIYF.
[22:36] <soren> bug 1
[22:36] <melter> owh, i've been googleing, and i see lots of blogs about switching, but nothing that even comes close to being technical
[22:37] <soren> uvirtbot: config plugins.Bugtracker.bugSnarfer True
[22:37] <soren> bug 1
[22:37] <melter> just garbage like, "i just switched, and i've never been happier"
[22:37] <owh> melter: Well, the link I gave you provides some "flyover" level information, but what specific issues did you have?
[22:38] <soren> bug 1
[22:38] <soren> There we go.
[22:38] <owh> !ebox
[22:38] <owh> Yay!
[22:39] <soren> Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. uvirtbot will do the bug stuff, and I'll leave the factoid stuff to ubottu.
[22:39] <owh> soren: So, do we have a specific role-set for the twins?
[22:40] <soren> owh: uvirtbot: bug announcement and the bug lookup thing. ubottu: everything else ubotu used to do.
[22:40] <owh> All good. Should we document that somewhere?
[22:40] <melter> owh, i'm looking for the ubuntu version of this page: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/list.xml?desc=1
[22:41] <melter> i want to search at ubuntu's wiki, and not get documents in languages i don't understand
[22:41] <melter> i have no problem with them existing, i simply want to filter them out
[22:42] <melter> i want to search, and not find documents for old versions of ubuntu that no longer apply
[22:42] <melter> when i enter a search term and hit reply, i don't want my search limited to titles, and want to search the text, by default
[22:42] <melter> *hit return
[22:43] <owh> melter: Well, help.ubuntu.com is the document server, broken down into versions of distributions. There are several search tools, one made by kirkland recently: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/search.html
[22:43] <melter> when i go to the "8.04" tab, i want the 8.04 version of the document i'm currently looking at, and not something completely different
[22:44]  * owh is checking to see if melter is reporting a bug with the documentation server.
[22:44] <owh> Hmm, that does seem to be a usability issue of some sort.
[22:44] <melter> i hate to complain, i know everyone does the best they can
[22:45] <melter> but i've been struggling all day just to get ubuntu server to set my hostname correctly, and i'm losing my mind
[22:46] <owh> melter: You raised an interesting point. I'm just glad that the ubuntu-server guide is up: https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/index.html
[22:47] <melter> why does ubuntu have so many different hosts and pages?
[22:47] <Centaur5> Could anybody recommend the best brand for well supported hardware SATA raid controllers?
[22:48] <owh> melter: Because it's been organically grown.
[22:48] <melter> so help.ubuntu is completely different then wiki.ubuntu?
[22:49] <owh> melter: Yup
[22:49] <hads> Hi all. I'm looking at getting a new colo box with Hardy on it as a xen dom0 running Hardy domU instances. Anyone have any thoughts about the support of Xen in Hardy and in the future?
[22:49] <owh> melter: The search link I gave you searches all that.
[22:49] <melter> that is completely unexpected
[22:50] <melter> go to wiki.ubuntu.com, enter "dhcp" in the search box, hit return, and you'll understand my frustration
[22:50] <owh> melter: To blow your mind, those are both different from docs.ubuntu, where pre-release stuff lives. There's launchpad.net where bugs live and bazaar.launchpad.net where code lives.
[22:51] <owh> melter: I see what you mean :)
[22:51] <melter> where's the search box at the top of help.ubuntu.com?
[22:51] <owh> melter: For your purposes the server guide should get you started: Ubuntu Server Guide <https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/index.html>
[22:55] <melter> why does that page show "5.10" and "6.06 LTS"?
[22:56] <owh> melter: Which page?
[22:56] <melter> the one you just linked
[22:56] <owh> melter: Ah, that looks like a bug.
[22:57] <owh> melter: The new server docs are still drying, they went up only recently.
[22:57] <melter> and why, when i click the "5.10" tab, don't i get a 5.10 version of the same document? and why does it then add a new "6.10" tab?
[22:57] <owh> sommer: Who do we poke about the server guide? At the moment melter points out that the tabs are showing 5.10 and 6.06?
[22:58] <nealmcb> so soren, tell us the story of the bots.  pretty please?
[22:58] <ajmitch> owh: bug against ubuntu-website, perhaps
[22:58] <soren> Seveas got mad and left.
[22:58] <sommer> owh: hrm, from which site?
[22:58] <melter> and clicking the 6.10 tab adds new tabs for 7.04 and 7.10
[22:58] <soren> nealmcb: It's about as simple as that.
[22:59] <owh> sommer: Ubuntu Server Guide <https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/index.html>
[22:59] <owh> ajmitch: I just wondered prior to doing that if sommer was already across it.
[23:00] <nealmcb> so which bot does what?  you run uvirtbot?
[23:00]  * hads waves to ajmitch 
[23:00] <sommer> owh: that's definitely the wrong link, try: https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/serverguide/C/index.html
[23:00] <nealmcb> and jussi01 does ubottu?
[23:00] <ajmitch> hello hads :)
[23:00] <sommer> owh: I think that's left over from dapper
[23:00] <owh> sommer: It's what documentation search threw up in the air.
[23:01] <owh> Hmm
[23:01] <owh> I'll log a bug.
[23:01] <sommer> owh: ya, there's been a bug about that for quite a while, and I think there's blueprints about the wiki.u.c and help.u.c naming confusion
[23:01] <owh> sommer: Ah, so no need then?
[23:01] <mathiaz> wiki.u.c is the developer wiki
[23:02] <mathiaz> help.ubuntu.com/community/ is the user/documentation wiki
[23:02] <nealmcb> soren: and do we have the same code base and/or configuration/factoid base in one of the other of those bots?  If I want what ubotu did for #ubuntu-us-co who do I talk to or what help is needed?
[23:02]  * owh heads off to breakfast.
[23:02] <soren> nealmcb: Ask in #ubuntu-bots
[23:02] <hads> The topic could be updated with the 8.04 serverguide link.
[23:02] <sommer> mathiaz: yep yep, but seems new comers get confused
[23:04] <melter> help.ubuntu.com really needs a search engine
[23:04] <Nafallo> it has two?
[23:06] <hads> Is KVM the recommended virtualisation software on a Hardy server over Xen these days?
[23:06] <mathiaz> melter: use google
[23:06] <hads> I know it's great for the desktop, haven't run it in a server environment though.
[23:06] <mathiaz> hads: yes
[23:06] <mathiaz> hads: kvm is in main, xen in universe
[23:07] <mathiaz> hads: you need to have the proper hardware though
[23:07] <hads> Yeah
[23:07] <hads> I just thought KVM/Qemu was more for things with a graphical environment. I guess I need to do some more looking into it.
[23:17] <melter> mathiaz, that's what i've been doing, but it's a pain to have to switch back and forth
[23:22] <owh> soren: Can you update the /topic to fix the server guide link?
[23:22] <owh> soren: To save you searching: https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/serverguide/C/index.html
[23:24] <soren> owh: Sure.
[23:25] <owh> soren: Tah
[23:25] <owh> soren: Now if you can drag a ubuntu-server vps out from somewhere I can stop working for the day :)
[23:26] <soren> I'm afraid my magic hat is empty right now
[23:27] <owh> Ah well, I'd better go and find a rabbit then.
[23:27]  * ajmitch thinks the topic looks a little truncated now
[23:27] <owh> It is, well spotted.
[23:27] <owh> soren: We've been here before :)
[23:28] <owh> ajmitch: That's interesting in itself. Last time it happend, it was at the same place IIRC.
[23:29] <soren> owh: Not all that interesting. There's just limited space available, and we're cutting it close.
[23:29] <owh> soren: I wondered if that was it. Isn't the wiki link for developers anyway?
[23:30] <soren> Well... Mostly, I guess. So?
[23:30] <owh> Well, I'm thinking they'd already know the link, where visitors here, the ones that would care about the topic, would not need it readily.
[23:36] <owh> Perhaps I should finish that thought, soren, what I mean is that perhaps it's appropriate to delete the last link, rather than provide a tiny URL to official documentation.
[23:37] <ajmitch> so is there anything to do for intrepid, or are you aiming for hardy bugfixes for a week or two?
[23:37] <soren> ajmitch: I'll be working on hardy bugfixes for a bit. Intrepid's not even properly open anyway.
[23:38] <ajmitch> I know, I haven't even upgraded yet :)
[23:38] <owh> Do we have an ETA on vmware-server for Hardy?
[23:39] <soren> ajmitch: To intrepid? Sheesh, man! Get with the programme! :)
[23:39] <ajmitch> you're right, at the moment I'm not even using ubuntu
[23:39] <soren> Oh, dear.
[23:40]  * owh is reluctant to confess that the keyboard here is being processed by Gutsy :)
[23:40] <ajmitch> but sid isn't all that bad...
[23:40] <owh> ajmitch: ROTFL
[23:42]  * ajmitch looks at the bug list & spots bug 12296
[23:42] <ajmitch> ugly php non-threadsafe libs
[23:44] <soren> fastcgi ftw
[23:45] <ajmitch> if only I could just remove php from the servers here
[23:46] <owh> ajmitch: But what is the alternative?
[23:47] <ajmitch> rewriting our main application in python or some other sane solution :)
[23:47] <ajmitch> more than just a weekend's work
[23:47] <owh> ajmitch: No kidding.
[23:48] <owh> ajmitch: I've written software in over 20 languages - I lost count at some point - and for some reason PHP just "fits", mind you I'm spending more and more time with bash - Python never came above the radar. Any comments as to why you suggest this?
[23:49] <ajmitch> it has a number of inconsistencies & issues, and I'm also a big fan of more dynamic languages like python, which can be more flexible
[23:50] <ajmitch> especially when you've got an old codebase that's designed around working with php4 and its 'less than adequate' OO model
[23:51] <owh> ajmitch: You don't need to convince me that PHP has - let's put it kindly, "quirks", but why Python?
[23:52] <ajmitch> because it has a lot of the features in the language that I like to use, is well-documented, clean to both read & write, and there's a lot of supporting code for it out there
[23:54] <owh> ajmitch: This indicates to me that there is another player around: http://www.google.com/trends?q=php%2Cpython
[23:55] <ajmitch> oh quite likely, but google trends is only 1 view of how things are :)
[23:55] <owh> ajmitch: Of course :) ROTLF
[23:55] <owh> s/LF/FL/
[23:56] <ajmitch> it helps that there is good support for python in ubuntu, and use of it is encouraged :)
[23:56] <owh> ajmitch: I had noticed that.
[23:57] <owh> ajmitch: Another factor that had me looking around was that the meraki devices were running python.
[23:57] <ajmitch> you won't find many of the ubuntu team saying good things about PHP
[23:57]  * ajmitch watches soren wince
[23:58] <Deeps> what's wrong with php?
[23:58] <owh> ajmitch: No, I understand completely, I'm not even disagreeing with you. It's no longer evolving in a - "system administrator" - way, that is, there seems to me to be a grab for features, rather than maintainability. Mind you, the major issue with PHP is the end-users, the "script authors" who write abominations.
[23:59] <Deeps> it's well documented, clean to both read and write, and there's a tonne of supporting code for it out there
[23:59] <owh> Deeps: ROTFL
[23:59] <ajmitch> owh: part of the problem there is that the language has made it so easy for them to do so, and the php runtime itself hasn't been particularly stellar with security