[03:46] <spikebike> I have the dreaded gutsy upgrade nvidia machine to hardy
[03:46] <spikebike> GLX no workie 8-(
[03:47] <spikebike> Failed to initialize the GLX module
[03:49] <spikebike> oops this looks like the wrong channel
[11:44] <MacSlow> hm... epiphany does not load any page (local or remote) anymore... firefox has no problems on the otherhand
[20:59] <mariusss> ted1: ﻿In your vision, when do you think the Ubuntu desktop will be like the current Mac OS X one?
[20:59] <ted1> Heh, I don't think it will be like the current OS X one.
[20:59] <SgtMuffins> ted1: are you using ubuntu 8.04 right now?
[20:59] <mariusss> why not?
[20:59] <ted1> But I hope that we get as polished before the next LTS.
[20:59] <mariusss> yes
[20:59] <ted1> SgtMuffins: yes.
[20:59] <mariusss> but I have AWN and other goodies
[21:00] <ted1> I guess it simply comes down to that we should be an OS X clone, we should take good ideas.  Not all of those come from Apple.
[21:01] <ted1> I love a lot of things Apple does, but hate others.
[21:01] <mariusss> for example I have a ripple effect for Pidgin, when someone sends me a message.... this feature is not available in OS X
[21:01] <mariusss> AWN is a good idea :D
[21:02] <mariusss> why not invest more time in the development of it, instead of trying to repair or fix the current GNOME Panel's bugs
[21:02] <mariusss> and we are also talking here about a good looking OS ;) Because, right now... GNOME looks more like a Win 2000... not even XP :(
[21:02] <mariusss> do you agree?
[21:03] <ted1> Well, with the current release cycle, we didn't want to do things that were drastic.  So we were definitely sticking with GNOME Panel.
[21:03] <ted1> But, it think that moving away from it is on the table at UDS.
[21:03] <mariusss> I see
[21:03] <ted1> But, I want to say that we're not focused on "Use program X" we're focused on "this is what we want to build, how can we get there."
[21:04] <mariusss> I understand
[21:04] <ted1> And if the GNOME panel is going the same route, it might be easier for us to ride that horse, as it is likely to always be more integrated with GNOME upstream.
[21:04] <ted1> I'm not saying it is or isn't, but we haven't decided on the user experience yet, so it's hard to say.
[21:05] <ted1> I would say in general I consider the Ubuntu Desktop already more consistent and usable than Windows, and I think our goals are to conquer OS X.
[21:05] <Nafallo> ted1: +1
[21:06] <SgtMuffins> agreed
[21:06] <mariusss> ok, in my vision... where I want Ubuntu to be is: a dock without the upper panel (like in OS X) with the basic stuff and utilities...
[21:07] <ted1> The problem with that is that dock doesn't scale.  If you have a hundred applications you use regularly, how does that work?
[21:07] <mariusss> A dock means a lot, it is very powerful... for example: you know where an application icon is located all the time....
[21:07] <ted1> Also, I think in general people are more document focused than application focused.
[21:07] <ted1> Well, applications don't move in the menus :)
[21:07] <mariusss> not the menus :)
[21:08] <mariusss> the panel
[21:08] <ted1> The question comes down to, how can we make what people do most of the time easy to do.
[21:08] <mariusss> exactly
[21:08] <mariusss> :)
[21:08] <ted1> And I think the dock does that for a case where you only have a few applications you use, but it doesn't scale to having large amounts of documents and applications.
[21:09] <ted1> Apple tried with stacks, but I think that's just silly.
[21:10] <mariusss> I don't know.... but I told you, I am using a dock for some time now, both at work and home (with Ubuntu 8.04 on them) and there is NO WAY I am going back to the old GNOME panel... it can't offer the easiness and the power of a dock :)
[21:12] <oblique63_> thats one opinion...
[21:12] <ted1> I think in general, the menus don't work for commonly used applications.  I think we can agree on that.
[21:13] <oblique63_> I mean, I use the dock a lot too, but even I have to admit its mostly because it just looks nicer, not really anything to do with usability
[21:13] <mariusss> another example would be the one when someone accidentally opens two or more instances of an application (image Firefox, who eats a lot of ram)... what happens then? I will tell you because I know.... the system barely moves...  Well, this will not happen with a dock :D
[21:13] <ted1> I don't know that the answer is a dock-like thing.
[21:13] <ted1> mariusss: That's an application thing, it doesn't mater what the application viewing UI is.
[21:13] <ted1> mariusss: On OSX I can get multiple of the same icon on the dock easily enough.
[21:14] <mariusss> stacks sucks!
[21:14] <mariusss> :)
[21:14] <oblique63_> at least they 'look' cool
[21:19] <mariusss> AWN with about 50 icons -> http://img63378.pictiger.com/images/15108977/z/ :)
[21:20] <oblique63_> lol
[21:20] <oblique63_> yeah, thats totally usable....
[21:22] <mariusss> :))
[21:23] <mariusss> GNOME Panel with the same icons -> http://img63378.pictiger.com/images/15109057/z/ :)
[21:24] <mariusss> I still think the dock is more usable :)
[21:25] <mariusss> ted1: thank you for answering my questions!
[21:26] <ted1> mariusss: You should turn on grouping when space is limited.
[21:27] <ted1> mariusss: No problem!