[00:14] * DanaG goes off and hugs Nodoka.... [00:14] and notes that that can be interpreted multiple ways. [00:21] Oh yeah, and I realized that Fedora's settings for the windeco are actually not the default for that windeco engine, it seems. [00:21] I have a different variant from the 'nanolx' repo. === elkbuntu is now known as elky === elkbuntu is now known as elky === elky is now known as elkbuntu === DanaG is now known as _segfault_ [06:04] <_segfault_> before I annoy with too many changes.... [08:02] * DanaG goes to bed. [09:09] hi people. congrats on a fine looking heron [11:19] _MMA_: Look at the text files in the readme packages to get settings that don't exist in the docs. [11:19] _MMA_: Things like setting the radius of the corners of the windows etc. [11:19] Greetings coz_ [11:19] troy_s, hey guy :) [11:19] coz_: How have you been? [11:20] troy_s, not bad . busy.. [11:20] how about yourself? [11:20] coz_: Fine thanks. Little busy. [11:20] troy_s, I understand.... so is the artwork that didnt make it into hardy going into intrepid? [11:21] coz_: What artwork? [11:21] oh! :) [11:21] I though maybe some of the things that were proposed for hardy and didnt make it in might be worked on for intrepid [11:21] coz_: Doubtful... but maybe. [11:22] troy_s, ok [11:22] coz_: I have no idea about the plans to change the theme etc. Personally, in terms of GTK, the look of the widgets are heavy handed akin to Tango heavy handed. [11:23] coz_: Aside from that, it is more about the standard sort of 'wrap-the-head-around-what-the-hell-any-design-is-trying-to-do' more than anything else. [11:23] troy_s, ok well I am going to try to stay tuned in on this one... the best I can... see what I can offer [11:23] troy_s, ooo ok [11:23] coz_: Probably wise to try and see what can be done in a smaller team setting. [11:24] troy_s, smaller team setting? could you elaborate on that [11:24] coz_: Pick some people that you think you can work with and see if you can generate some magic. [11:25] troy_s, i see so this is the new appraoch? [11:25] coz_: No but it is the only method to get anything done. [11:25] coz_: In a reasonably organized fashion. [11:25] troy_s, that bad yikes [11:25] coz_: And it is the only way that anything has gotten into Ubuntu proper really. [11:26] troy_s, ok understood i will have to look in to the members work then see who is doing what [11:27] coz_: Yep. It's pretty simple -- find someone you think you are on the same level / mindset with, and see if you can generate anything. [11:28] troy_s, ok I will do my best, as i said I would like to stay in touch with this one since most of what is in hardy is not real impressive but I guess that is no surprise I was hoping for a little more " unph" :) [11:29] coz_: Well... hardy is more or less the same as it ever was with a different wallpaper. Unless I am missing some hundreds of hours of work somewhere. [11:30] troy_s, :) i guess thats what I meant [11:30] coz_: I have been known to be completely ignorant of things however. That is all that I can _see_. [11:30] i think it was a good decision to have the LTS release end the cycle with basically the same artwork [11:30] troy_s, I have never seen you as being ingnorant abou things [11:31] coz_: LOL. [11:31] coz_: Have you been up to any painting or otherwise? [11:32] troy_s, I have been working in inkscape quite a bit however nothing that would warrant a view of so far just experiments etc other than that I have been doing the support in compiz fusion which has slowed down quite a bit and seeing nothing really unique making it into hardy I was dissapointed to the point that I felt I need to at least attemp someting [11:33] coz_: Unique is a strange bird. [11:33] troy_s, yes but certainly a thing to work towards [11:34] troy_s, I can only give it a try see what ideas i come up with and decide if they are worth submitting [11:34] coz_: Indeed. [11:34] coz_: In the end, all one can do is try. Even then, it could very well suck. lol. [11:34] troy_s, for sure [11:35] troy_s, has anyone come with ideas as to the Look and feel of intrepid [11:35] coz_: Gosh no. [11:35] coz_: I mean -- gosh yes. [11:35] troy_s, lol [11:35] coz_: But ultimately they are rooted in the garbage 'I think' 'I think' 'I think' 'I think' syndrome. [11:36] troy_s, oh geez [11:36] coz_: I end up in this strange place where I firmly believe I am an alien. I just get lost in the cyclic nature of failing to comprehend the issues at hand. [11:36] troy_s, :) [11:38] troy_s, I doubt you get that confused [11:38] coz_: Oh no, I do. [11:38] coz_: What confuses me is that it appears people can't put their finger on the nature of option versus goal. [11:38] coz_: Erk... opinion. [11:39] troy_s, oh! [11:40] coz_: Opinions are terrific when one chooses to listen to them, but in the end, they are opinions. [11:40] troy_s, sounds like you have been hitting your head against the wall lately [11:40] coz_: The goal of the design is a strange sort of calculated guess however, which should probably be a pretty far leap away from opinion. [11:41] coz_: Not really. Been too busy to get bothered by it. [11:41] coz_: Although there has been a lot of mail lately. [11:41] troy_s, well as long as you dont leave [11:41] troy_s, you mean the mailing list? [11:41] coz_: Lol. Been around here too long to be leaving really. I just patiently keep waiting. [11:42] coz_: Yeah... the list has been busy. [11:42] with noise [11:42] troy_s, well yeah but that one about top and bottom post got me pretty peeved [11:42] understandable but ... [11:42] i'm only staying subscribed for the rare request or announcement [11:42] coz_: Lol. I honestly could care less. The thing that drives me bonkers is the quote everything and put one line of comment at the top. [11:43] coz_: I find it easier to read and understand if people simply snip out the damn thing that is relevant and reply to the line. [11:43] coz_: But apparently that is not going to happen either. [11:43] thorwil: Greets. [11:43] troy_s, hopefully things will get better [11:44] that's exactly what i'm asking for [11:44] * thorwil waves [11:45] troy_s, what are the best times y our time that I can find you here? [11:45] i have no trust in the abilities of people who can't even edit text, when it comes to creating artwork. see, it's all communication and love for details [11:45] coz_: Well I am going to be done work for a while shortly. I'll be on more. [11:45] troy_s, ok just wondering I have been here and of course I seem to come in when no one is talking :) [11:46] coz_: That happens. [11:46] always for me at least [11:46] coz_: There isn't _too_ much talk here. [11:46] I know [11:46] especially if troy_s isn't active ;) [11:46] coz_: As there isn't much to talk about. [11:46] troy_s ooo thats discouraging [11:46] coz_: It is apathy. Just a bit of the reality of the circumstance. [11:47] troy_s, is part of this apathy still related to shuttleworth in any way? [11:47] coz_: Not at all. Ubuntu is just a project that doesn't really care that much about certain things. [11:47] troy_s, like art maybe :) [11:48] coz_: It comes down to an either you do or you don't. [11:48] coz_: Which largely stems from a lack of understanding / comprehension. It may very well change... but I am not exactly holding my breath. [11:48] troy_s, dont turn blue ... its quite unattractive [11:49] coz_: Lol. Exactly. [11:49] what, should he turn brown or orange? [11:49] :) [11:50] thorwil: LOL now that was funny. [11:50] Ubuntu: We don't hold our breath TM [11:51] :) [11:51] LOL [11:51] Pursuing Excellence Just Like an Amoeba Does It. [11:52] lol [11:52] This isn't really entirely Ubuntu however, to be fair. [11:53] troy_s, who do you attribute the blame to ? [11:53] coz_: No blame. [11:53] ok [11:53] coz_: It's climate. [11:53] ah [11:53] coz_: One can only look to the nature of the culture and see that as with everything, it is an evolutionary process. [11:53] coz_: Just imagine trying to get a job at say Apple without a degree in design or art, no portfolio, etc. [11:54] (and I hate using apple as an example, but alas...) [11:54] coz_: Yet that is the archetype driving the ship. [11:54] troy_s, and you are applying that to the people involved in Ubuntu generally? [11:54] coz_: No. [11:54] coz_: plenty of developers are professionals or heading there [11:54] ok it is 7am here I am not real awake apparenlty [11:55] coz_: It is across the entire culture. It is again, about climate. Heck it wasnt' that long ago that there weren't tools to even create work on FOSS. [11:55] thorwil: There are many professionals in terms of code. [11:55] coz_: but apparently, in artwork, there are very few skilled individuals. the rest are kids [11:55] thorwil: And that end is extremely top shelf. [11:55] thorwil, I understand that and troy_s has brought that up in the past in different wording [11:56] well everyone thinks they are an artist at some point [11:56] Ultimately it comes down to output. [11:56] Because without output, there isn't a barometer. [11:56] ooo yes theory is nice but output is the key [11:56] And I suppose that everyone will carry on as is until they get that sort of sinking feeling that I had at a few points in my career... [11:56] where one realizes that they are rather insignificant. [11:57] ooo been there [11:57] coz_: It happens when you see good work. [11:57] if you do digital painting or 3d, don't go to cgtalk ;) [11:58] thorwil: ? [11:58] why is that? [11:58] thorwil, #cgtalk ? [11:58] regarding good work and feeling insignificant: [11:59] http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?s=2e82e1261800a0a3f53b1e66792bec7b&f=121 [11:59] http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?s=2e82e1261800a0a3f53b1e66792bec7b&f=137 [11:59] Yeah some strange pursuit of mimesis there. [11:59] Never really understood that. [12:00] There was one site I came across the other day. The fellow used 3D in this rather beautiful strange abstract works. [12:00] oh common, there's enough there that doesn't try to copy the real world [12:01] It's pretty damn impressive on all counts however. [12:01] In terms of 3D, when you look at it and you have no clue, it is rather mind numbing. [12:01] http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&s=f90f3bab558818a4aea5393bd5c54638&t=586695 [12:01] that's what i mean [12:02] troy_s, yeah I guess that is a bit much but still nicely done [12:02] thorwil: The non 3D stuff is pretty magnificent. [12:03] troy_s: yes, all in all i prefer it over the 3d stuff [12:04] I have a series of photos that I need to finish [12:04] then I think I'm going to try and get something done with inkscape [12:04] using it as a paint tool... see how it ends up. [12:04] ok guys ..it is after 7am here and I have not had breakfast.. so I need to go cook something be back a bit later... hope to see you both here :) [12:04] ugh. i have to get my wacom working again, thanks to this one thing broken in hardy [12:05] thorwil: Hrm... really? [12:05] oh yeah... last time I looked the stanzas were missing in the damn xorg. [12:05] troy_s: ok, there are more things broken, but it's the only real issue i have [12:05] nah, my xorg.conf is fine [12:06] whats busted tehn??!? [12:07] after skimming forum posts and bug reports, it looks like it could be the kernel and/or an incompatibility between x and the wacom-tools [12:07] thorwil: No way [12:07] thorwil: I haven't tried since I bumped up...that would be a major problem for me. [12:08] note that i have a serial tablet [12:09] * thorwil turns up the music and goes to clean the bathroom [12:15] thorwil: Ok night. I'm off. Werk on the morrow. Nice seeing you again. [12:52] troy_s: nice inkscape tutorial on your blog [12:53] whoa didnt see that andreasn do you have link handy? [12:54] coz_: http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2008/04/inkscape-tutorial-2-text-and-simple.html [12:54] thanks :) === thorwil_ is now known as thorwil [15:47] cimi, where is the murrine's source code? [15:47] i want RGBA on my desktop! [15:47] :) [15:56] artir, you need to w8 gtk+ patches [15:56] i have v 0.60 bzr 39.2-1 [15:57] and RGBA work in some places [15:57] it looks like an alpha [15:57] but is k00l [15:57] bzrbzr? [15:57] bzr? [15:57] i got it from a ppa [15:57] from gilir's ppa [15:58] mmm I must ask him to close it [15:58] where is that repo? [15:58] http://ppa.launchpad.net/gilir/ubuntu [15:59] why do you want to close it? [15:59] oh lucky, old version :) [17:44] what is the Human icon theme license? [17:46] smallfoot-: GPL 2, i think [17:46] no wait [17:47] Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 [17:47] oh [17:47] there should be an easy way to find out [17:47] smallfoot-: http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/human-icon-theme [17:48] see Copyright File on the right [17:49] ah thanks [17:49] should be able to see license from synaptic though [17:50] who owns the copyright? [17:50] Ubuntu Foundation, Ubuntu Art Team or Canonical? [17:51] <_MMA_> Most likely Canonical. [17:51] <_MMA_> Why do you ask? [17:51] smallfoot-: true, synaptic should show license. consider filing a feature request [17:51] im uploading screenshot to wikipedia [17:52] and wikipedia needs to know author and copyright holder [17:52] else it delete image [17:52] because wikipedia dont want people to upload copyright images [17:52] smallfoot-: from the file: Copyright 2004-2006 Canonical Ltd. [17:52] oh [17:55] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toolbar [17:56] look cute, now toolbar is on wikipedia :D [22:09] _MMA_, what do you think would be more useful in Prague? EUR or CZK? [22:24] <_MMA_> EUR [23:13] doh :/ I bought more CZK then EUR. [23:20] <_MMA_> Won't matter really. Im going EUR because Im also traveling.