[00:14]  * DanaG goes off and hugs Nodoka....
[00:14] <DanaG> and notes that that can be interpreted multiple ways.
[00:21] <DanaG> Oh yeah, and I realized that Fedora's settings for the windeco are actually not the default for that windeco engine, it seems.
[00:21] <DanaG> I have a different variant from the 'nanolx' repo.
[06:04] <_segfault_> before I annoy with too many changes....
[08:02]  * DanaG goes to bed.
[09:09] <lassegul> hi people. congrats on a fine looking heron
[11:19] <troy_s> _MMA_: Look at the text files in the readme packages to get settings that don't exist in the docs.
[11:19] <troy_s> _MMA_: Things like setting the radius of the corners of the windows etc.
[11:19] <troy_s> Greetings coz_
[11:19] <coz_> troy_s, hey guy :)
[11:19] <troy_s> coz_: How have you been?
[11:20] <coz_> troy_s, not bad . busy..
[11:20] <coz_> how about yourself?
[11:20] <troy_s> coz_: Fine thanks.  Little busy.
[11:20] <coz_> troy_s, I understand.... so is the artwork that didnt make it into hardy going into intrepid?
[11:21] <troy_s> coz_: What artwork?
[11:21] <coz_> oh! :)
[11:21] <coz_> I though maybe some of the things that were proposed for hardy and didnt make it in might be worked on for intrepid
[11:21] <troy_s> coz_: Doubtful... but maybe.
[11:22] <coz_> troy_s,   ok
[11:22] <troy_s> coz_: I have no idea about the plans to change the theme etc.  Personally, in terms of GTK, the look of the widgets are heavy handed akin to Tango heavy handed.
[11:23] <troy_s> coz_: Aside from that, it is more about the standard sort of 'wrap-the-head-around-what-the-hell-any-design-is-trying-to-do' more than anything else.
[11:23] <coz_> troy_s, ok  well   I am going to try to stay tuned in on this one... the best I can... see what I can offer
[11:23] <coz_> troy_s, ooo ok
[11:23] <troy_s> coz_: Probably wise to try and see what can be done in a smaller team setting.
[11:24] <coz_> troy_s,   smaller team setting?   could you elaborate on that
[11:24] <troy_s> coz_: Pick some people that you think you can work with and see if you can generate some magic.
[11:25] <coz_> troy_s, i see   so  this is the new appraoch?
[11:25] <troy_s> coz_: No but it is the only method to get anything done.
[11:25] <troy_s> coz_: In a reasonably organized fashion.
[11:25] <coz_> troy_s,   that bad  yikes
[11:25] <troy_s> coz_: And it is the only way that anything has gotten into Ubuntu proper really.
[11:26] <coz_> troy_s, ok  understood    i will have to look in to the members work then see who is doing what
[11:27] <troy_s> coz_: Yep.  It's pretty simple -- find someone you think you are on the same level / mindset with, and see if you can generate anything.
[11:28] <coz_> troy_s,  ok  I will do my best, as i said I would like to stay in touch with this one since most of what is in hardy is not real impressive but I guess that is no surprise   I was hoping for a little more " unph" :)
[11:29] <troy_s> coz_: Well... hardy is more or less the same as it ever was with a different wallpaper.  Unless I am missing some hundreds of hours of work somewhere.
[11:30] <coz_> troy_s, :)  i guess thats what I meant
[11:30] <troy_s> coz_: I have been known to be completely ignorant of things however.  That is all that I can _see_.
[11:30] <thorwil> i think it was a good decision to have the LTS release end the cycle with basically the same artwork
[11:30] <coz_> troy_s, I have never seen you as being ingnorant abou things
[11:31] <troy_s> coz_: LOL.
[11:31] <troy_s> coz_: Have you been up to any painting or otherwise?
[11:32] <coz_> troy_s, I have been working in inkscape quite a bit however  nothing that would warrant a view of   so far just experiments etc   other than that I have been doing the support in compiz fusion which has slowed down quite a bit and seeing nothing really  unique  making it into hardy I was dissapointed to the point that I felt I need to at least attemp someting
[11:33] <troy_s> coz_: Unique is a strange bird.
[11:33] <coz_> troy_s, yes but certainly a  thing to work towards
[11:34] <coz_> troy_s,  I can only give it a try see what ideas i come up with  and decide if they are worth submitting
[11:34] <troy_s> coz_: Indeed.
[11:34] <troy_s> coz_: In the end, all one can do is try.  Even then, it could very well suck.  lol.
[11:34] <coz_> troy_s, for sure
[11:35] <coz_> troy_s,   has anyone come with ideas as to the Look and feel of intrepid
[11:35] <troy_s> coz_: Gosh no.
[11:35] <troy_s> coz_: I mean -- gosh yes.
[11:35] <coz_> troy_s, lol
[11:35] <troy_s> coz_: But ultimately they are rooted in the garbage 'I think' 'I think' 'I think' 'I think' syndrome.
[11:36] <coz_> troy_s,  oh geez
[11:36] <troy_s> coz_: I end up in this strange place where I firmly believe I am an alien.  I just get lost in the cyclic nature of failing to comprehend the issues at hand.
[11:36] <coz_> troy_s, :)
[11:38] <coz_> troy_s, I doubt you get that confused
[11:38] <troy_s> coz_: Oh no, I do.
[11:38] <troy_s> coz_: What confuses me is that it appears people can't put their finger on the nature of option versus goal.
[11:38] <troy_s> coz_: Erk... opinion.
[11:39] <coz_> troy_s,  oh!
[11:40] <troy_s> coz_: Opinions are terrific when one chooses to listen to them, but in the end, they are opinions.
[11:40] <coz_> troy_s,  sounds like you have been hitting your head against the wall lately
[11:40] <troy_s> coz_: The goal of the design is a strange sort of calculated guess however, which should probably be a pretty far leap away from opinion.
[11:41] <troy_s> coz_: Not really.  Been too busy to get bothered by it.
[11:41] <troy_s> coz_: Although there has been a lot of mail lately.
[11:41] <coz_> troy_s, well as long as you dont leave
[11:41] <coz_> troy_s, you mean the mailing list?
[11:41] <troy_s> coz_: Lol.  Been around here too long to be leaving really.  I just patiently keep waiting.
[11:42] <troy_s> coz_: Yeah... the list has been busy.
[11:42] <thorwil> with noise
[11:42] <coz_> troy_s, well yeah but that one about top and bottom post got me pretty peeved
[11:42] <coz_> understandable but ...
[11:42] <thorwil> i'm only staying subscribed for the rare request or announcement
[11:42] <troy_s> coz_: Lol.  I honestly could care less.  The thing that drives me bonkers is the quote everything and put one line of comment at the top.
[11:43] <troy_s> coz_: I find it easier to read and understand if people simply snip out the damn thing that is relevant and reply to the line.
[11:43] <troy_s> coz_: But apparently that is not going to happen either.
[11:43] <troy_s> thorwil: Greets.
[11:43] <coz_> troy_s,  hopefully things will get better
[11:44] <thorwil> that's exactly what i'm asking for
[11:44]  * thorwil waves
[11:45] <coz_> troy_s,  what are the best times  y our time that I can find you here?
[11:45] <thorwil> i have no trust in the abilities of people who can't even edit text, when it comes to creating artwork. see, it's all communication and love for details
[11:45] <troy_s> coz_: Well I am going to be done work for a while shortly.  I'll be on more.
[11:45] <coz_> troy_s,  ok  just wondering  I have been here and of course I seem to come in when no one is talking :)
[11:46] <troy_s> coz_: That happens.
[11:46] <coz_> always for me at least
[11:46] <troy_s> coz_: There isn't _too_ much talk here.
[11:46] <coz_> I know
[11:46] <thorwil> especially if troy_s isn't active ;)
[11:46] <troy_s> coz_: As there isn't much to talk about.
[11:46] <coz_>  troy_s ooo  thats discouraging
[11:46] <troy_s> coz_: It is apathy.  Just a bit of the reality of the circumstance.
[11:47] <coz_> troy_s, is part of this apathy still related to shuttleworth in any way?
[11:47] <troy_s> coz_: Not at all.  Ubuntu is just a project that doesn't really care that much about certain things.
[11:47] <coz_> troy_s, like art maybe :)
[11:48] <troy_s> coz_: It comes down to an either you do or you don't.
[11:48] <troy_s> coz_: Which largely stems from a lack of understanding / comprehension.  It may very well change... but I am not exactly holding my breath.
[11:48] <coz_> troy_s,  dont turn blue ... its quite unattractive
[11:49] <troy_s> coz_: Lol.  Exactly.
[11:49] <thorwil> what, should he turn brown or orange?
[11:49] <coz_> :)
[11:50] <troy_s> thorwil: LOL now that was funny.
[11:50] <thorwil> Ubuntu: We don't hold our breath TM
[11:51] <coz_> :)
[11:51] <troy_s> LOL
[11:51] <troy_s> Pursuing Excellence Just Like an Amoeba Does It.
[11:52] <thorwil> lol
[11:52] <troy_s> This isn't really entirely Ubuntu however, to be fair.
[11:53] <coz_> troy_s, who do you attribute the blame to ?
[11:53] <troy_s> coz_: No blame.
[11:53] <coz_> ok
[11:53] <troy_s> coz_: It's climate.
[11:53] <coz_> ah
[11:53] <troy_s> coz_: One can only look to the nature of the culture and see that as with everything, it is an evolutionary process.
[11:53] <troy_s> coz_: Just imagine trying to get a job at say Apple without a degree in design or art, no portfolio, etc.
[11:54] <troy_s> (and I hate using apple as an example, but alas...)
[11:54] <troy_s> coz_: Yet that is the archetype driving the ship.
[11:54] <coz_> troy_s,  and you are applying that to the people involved in Ubuntu generally?
[11:54] <troy_s> coz_:  No.
[11:54] <thorwil> coz_: plenty of developers are professionals or heading there
[11:54] <coz_> ok it is 7am here I am not real awake apparenlty
[11:55] <troy_s> coz_: It is across the entire culture.  It is again, about climate.  Heck it wasnt' that long ago that there weren't tools to even create work on FOSS.
[11:55] <troy_s> thorwil: There are many professionals in terms of code.
[11:55] <thorwil> coz_: but apparently, in artwork, there are very few skilled individuals. the rest are kids
[11:55] <troy_s> thorwil: And that end is extremely top shelf.
[11:55] <coz_> thorwil, I understand that  and troy_s  has brought that up in the past  in different wording
[11:56] <coz_> well everyone thinks they are an artist at some point
[11:56] <troy_s> Ultimately it comes down to output.
[11:56] <troy_s> Because without output, there isn't a barometer.
[11:56] <coz_> ooo yes   theory is nice  but output is the key
[11:56] <troy_s> And I suppose that everyone will carry on as is until they get that sort of sinking feeling that I had at a few points in my career...
[11:56] <troy_s> where one realizes that they are rather insignificant.
[11:57] <coz_> ooo  been there
[11:57] <troy_s> coz_: It happens when you see good work.
[11:57] <thorwil> if you do digital painting or 3d, don't go to cgtalk ;)
[11:58] <troy_s> thorwil: ?
[11:58] <coz_> why is that?
[11:58] <coz_> thorwil,  #cgtalk ?
[11:58] <thorwil> regarding good work and feeling insignificant:
[11:59] <thorwil> http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?s=2e82e1261800a0a3f53b1e66792bec7b&f=121
[11:59] <thorwil> http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?s=2e82e1261800a0a3f53b1e66792bec7b&f=137
[11:59] <troy_s> Yeah some strange pursuit of mimesis there.
[11:59] <troy_s> Never really understood that.
[12:00] <troy_s> There was one site I came across the other day.  The fellow used 3D in this rather beautiful strange abstract works.
[12:00] <thorwil> oh common, there's enough there that doesn't try to copy the real world
[12:01] <troy_s> It's pretty damn impressive on all counts however.
[12:01] <troy_s> In terms of 3D, when you look at it and you have no clue, it is rather mind numbing.
[12:01] <troy_s> http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&s=f90f3bab558818a4aea5393bd5c54638&t=586695
[12:01] <thorwil> that's what i mean
[12:02] <coz_> troy_s,  yeah I guess that is a bit much but still nicely done
[12:02] <troy_s> thorwil: The non 3D stuff is pretty magnificent.
[12:03] <thorwil> troy_s: yes, all in all i prefer it over the 3d stuff
[12:04] <troy_s> I have a series of photos that I need to finish
[12:04] <troy_s> then I think I'm going to try and get something done with inkscape
[12:04] <troy_s> using it as a paint tool... see how it ends up.
[12:04] <coz_> ok guys ..it is after 7am here and I have not had breakfast.. so I need to go cook something   be back a bit later... hope to see you both here :)
[12:04] <thorwil> ugh. i have to get my wacom working again, thanks to this one thing broken in hardy
[12:05] <troy_s> thorwil: Hrm... really?
[12:05] <troy_s> oh yeah... last time I looked the stanzas were missing in the damn xorg.
[12:05] <thorwil> troy_s: ok, there are more things broken, but it's the only real issue i have
[12:05] <thorwil> nah, my xorg.conf is fine
[12:06] <troy_s> whats busted tehn??!?
[12:07] <thorwil> after skimming forum posts and bug reports, it looks like it could be the kernel and/or an incompatibility between x and the wacom-tools
[12:07] <troy_s> thorwil: No way
[12:07] <troy_s> thorwil: I haven't tried since I bumped up...that would be a major problem for me.
[12:08] <thorwil> note that i have a serial tablet
[12:09]  * thorwil turns up the music and goes to clean the bathroom
[12:15] <troy_s> thorwil: Ok night.  I'm off.  Werk on the morrow.  Nice seeing you again.
[12:52] <andreasn> troy_s: nice inkscape tutorial on your blog
[12:53] <coz_> whoa didnt see that andreasn  do you have link handy?
[12:54] <andreasn> coz_: http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2008/04/inkscape-tutorial-2-text-and-simple.html
[12:54] <coz_> thanks :)
[15:47] <artir> cimi, where is the murrine's source code?
[15:47] <artir> i want RGBA on my desktop!
[15:47] <artir> :)
[15:56] <Cimi> artir, you need to w8 gtk+ patches
[15:56] <artir> i have v 0.60 bzr 39.2-1
[15:57] <artir> and RGBA work in some places
[15:57] <artir> it looks like an alpha
[15:57] <artir> but is k00l
[15:57] <Cimi> bzrbzr?
[15:57] <Cimi> bzr?
[15:57] <artir> i got it from  a ppa
[15:57] <artir> from gilir's ppa
[15:58] <Cimi> mmm I must ask him to close it
[15:58] <Cimi> where is that repo?
[15:58] <artir> http://ppa.launchpad.net/gilir/ubuntu
[15:59] <artir> why do you want to close it?
[15:59] <Cimi> oh lucky, old version :)
[17:44] <smallfoot-> what is the Human icon theme license?
[17:46] <thorwil> smallfoot-: GPL 2, i think
[17:46] <thorwil> no wait
[17:47] <thorwil> Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5
[17:47] <smallfoot-> oh
[17:47] <smallfoot-> there should be an easy way to find out
[17:47] <thorwil> smallfoot-: http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/human-icon-theme
[17:48] <thorwil> see Copyright File on the right
[17:49] <smallfoot-> ah thanks
[17:49] <smallfoot-> should be able to see license from synaptic though
[17:50] <smallfoot-> who owns the copyright?
[17:50] <smallfoot-> Ubuntu Foundation, Ubuntu Art Team or Canonical?
[17:51] <_MMA_> Most likely Canonical.
[17:51] <_MMA_> Why do you ask?
[17:51] <thorwil> smallfoot-: true, synaptic should show license. consider filing a feature request
[17:51] <smallfoot-> im uploading screenshot to wikipedia
[17:52] <smallfoot-> and wikipedia needs to know author and copyright holder
[17:52] <smallfoot-> else it delete image
[17:52] <smallfoot-> because wikipedia dont want people to upload copyright images
[17:52] <thorwil> smallfoot-: from the file: Copyright 2004-2006 Canonical Ltd.
[17:52] <smallfoot-> oh
[17:55] <smallfoot-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toolbar
[17:56] <smallfoot-> look cute, now toolbar is on wikipedia :D
[22:09] <cody-somerville> _MMA_, what do you think would be more useful in Prague? EUR or CZK?
[22:24] <_MMA_> EUR
[23:13] <cody-somerville> doh :/ I bought more CZK then EUR.
[23:20] <_MMA_> Won't matter really. Im going EUR because Im also traveling.