/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/05/02/#ubuntu-bugs.txt

James500I have a debdiff for a bug in a multiverse package - how do I report it?00:01
secretlondonattach it to the bug00:02
secretlondonand then subscribe universe sponsors00:02
James500to a Launchpad bug report?00:02
secretlondonyes00:07
James500thanks, bug report submitted00:13
=== jordo_ex is now known as jordoex
LaibschI wonder why anki which is in Debian is not in intrepid.  bug 14500701:54
ubottuLaunchpad bug 145007 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] anki" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/14500701:54
LaibschSame goes for latest version of apt-cacher-ng which is 0.1.9 in intrepid and 0.1.13 in debian01:55
LaibschAm I misunderstanding something?01:55
RAOFLaibsch: I don't _think_ the autosync has been turned on yet?02:04
ograwell, MOM is runing02:09
ograand the toolchian is in place02:10
LaibschAh, I see02:14
LaibschI saw intrepid and immediately assumed the sync had been already done02:14
LaibschSo, I guess I need to be a bit more patient and things should fall into place02:15
ograautosync should start soon02:19
yuriyah the bot is broken02:49
* yuriy was wondering why he didn't have a pile of bugs to look through02:49
=== boomer` is now known as boomer
=== Martinp24 is now known as Martinp23
mr-russhi, does php have a upstream tracker attachement in launchpad?11:00
james_wit looks like "php" is registered11:01
mr-russI got error when I put a bug URL in.11:02
mr-russhttp://bugs.php.net/4489011:03
mr-russLaunchpad does not recognize the bug tracker at this URL11:03
james_whmm, I'm not sure then11:04
mr-russokay, I'll add the URL as a comment.  I have no idea how to add the php bug tracker, it's not a standard one I recognise.11:07
james_wmr-russ: once one of the experts is up we can get it done properly11:08
mr-russbug no is: 21889111:10
mr-russI may not be up when they get up.  Good old Australia in the middle of know where :)11:10
james_wthanks for the info, I'll relay it to them11:11
=== gnomefre1k is now known as gnomefreak
gnomefreakcan anyone please try to reproduce bug 224966 ? no matter how hard i try i cant do it12:11
ubottuLaunchpad bug 224966 in gdm "X/GDM crash (segfault) by firefox using nVidia 169.12 drivers" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22496612:11
lagagnomefreak: works fine in kubuntu hardy, w/o compiz.12:20
gnomefreakthanks i think its something that he did :(12:21
gnomefreakwish i could prove it though without a shadow of a doubt12:21
kahrytanHello13:30
kahrytanShould I change the title for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/220952 ?13:30
ubottuLaunchpad bug 220952 in mandriva "Out of Range for 800x600 full screen games" [Unknown,Confirmed]13:30
persiakahrytan: As the issue seems to be about lack of support for a specific display model, changing the title might make it clearer to bug reviewers.13:36
kahrytanlike to 'Xorg Config Needed for Viewsonic VA1916W"13:36
persiaThat certainly seems to encapsulate the issue more clearly.13:37
kahrytanI dont know the name of templates for displayconfig-gtk13:37
james_wkahrytan: Hi. I've been meaning to ask you about that bug. Are you using displayconfig-gtk, or are you using "System->Preferences->Screen Resolution"?13:38
kahrytanjames_w,  gtk applet doesnt do much at all. displayconfig-gtk doesnt recognized the monitor so its generic.13:39
james_wkahrytan: sorry? I don't understand your answer.13:39
kahrytanjames_w,  in short, both. Niether work.13:39
james_wIn 8.04 the program that is run by "System->Preferences->Screen Resolution" changed, so displayconfig-gtk isn't right if you are using that.13:39
kahrytandisplayconfig-gtk doesnt know what it is so its generic. And its not listed at all13:40
kahrytanand that Screen Resolution thing sucks royally. doesnt do anything useful13:40
kahrytanThe only thing it is useful  is changging resolution and thats it13:41
kahrytanUbuntu doesnt detect the monitor and even know what it is.13:43
kahrytanjames_w,  Why you ask?13:44
james_wjust to get the bug to the right plave13:45
james_wplace, I mean.13:45
kahrytanSo, What is your job13:45
james_wdoes that matter?13:46
kahrytanI changing title to "X Support needed for Viewsonic VA1916W"13:46
kahrytanor you got better one?13:46
james_wsounds good. I don't know where that needs to be included, but it's not displayconfig-gtk or gnome-display-properties, so I've invalidated that task.13:47
kahrytanWhy?13:47
james_wthey just get the information from X, and then tell it to tweak things.13:47
kahrytanHow about, put it where Ubuntu can detect it and configurate X properly so it full screen games can be played?13:48
james_wI can't speak for displayconfig-gtk, but gnome-display-properties certainly has no idea of the quirks of a particular monitor.13:48
kahrytanX is right place.13:48
kahrytanXorg13:48
james_wyes, and there is still a task open for that, I was just explaining why I closed it for displayconfig-gtk13:48
kahrytanBut if it existed in the monitor list then people can use it to configured xorg.conf13:49
james_wyeah, but displayconfig-gtk is deprecated, and it's much better if X can do it all by itself.13:50
kahrytanGutsy X did fine with it.13:51
kahrytanit's the version in Hardy that sucks13:51
kahrytanWhy is displayconfig deprecated?  is there better tool to configure Xorg.conf?13:52
kahrytanNV driver detected it just fine, btw.13:53
lagavim13:53
lagascnr.13:53
james_wThe plan is to move it all in to X13:53
kahrytanThat explains the lack of support for this monitor. Someone forgot to add it?13:53
james_wI've no idea. I doubt that every monitor is listed13:54
james_wI imagine that the monitor is just reporting what it can handle incorrectly or in a strange way.13:54
kahrytanjames_w,  again, NV driver did fine with it13:54
kahrytanjames_w, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14028337/NV_Output_Xorg.log13:55
james_wso it's a problem with the nvidia driver?13:55
james_w"Confirmed aka Tested and Broken for both Nvidia and NV drivers. "13:55
kahrytannot exactly13:55
kahrytanNV still adds bad rates to modelines.13:56
kahrytanBut detects alright.13:56
kahrytanare they trying to do away with xorg.conf too?13:57
james_wbdmurray: Hi. When you get a minute can you do any necessary magic to add http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=44890 as the upstream watch of bug 218891?13:58
ubottuLaunchpad bug 218891 in php5 "converting some doubles to strings yields trailing colon" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/21889113:58
james_wbdmurray: or is it that lp needs to add support for dealing with the php tracker?13:58
james_wkahrytan: yes, in most cases, it would still be used as a way to change things if needed (driver etc.).13:59
kahrytanjames_w, Thats a really bad idea.14:00
kahrytanUnless X developers want to keep on top of every single hardware ever created past, present, and future.14:00
james_wthat's their plan.14:01
james_wI'm going to get lunch now, back later.14:01
kahrytanYeah bad idea14:01
kahrytanreally bad.14:01
kahrytanThey should focus on other things.14:01
kahrytanotherwise, bugs like this will continue to happen forever.14:02
bddebianBoo14:21
jaredbuckhey. what's up?14:21
niekieWoei!14:32
niekieErr.. wrong chan.14:32
thekornI got an additional slot today in the openweek, does anybody have suggestions on how to fill this extra hour?14:59
qensea Q&A hour about bug triaging/managing? Explain who can set what, what's the purpose of milestones, why you shouldn't mark duplicates as invalid15:03
qensewhat teams you have to join15:03
qensewhat you ahve to do before you're a bug triager15:03
gaurav^ that would help me :)15:03
james_whi thekorn. I like the libnotify support in the applet, thanks.15:06
qenseyes, that's a nice feature15:06
thekornsounds like a plan, so if anybody who is more experienced in bug triaging and maybe more involved into the whole process have some time in the 16.00 UTC hour, feel free to join the session15:07
qenseI can help a bit15:07
* thekorn waves to james_w 15:07
* thekorn hugs qense 15:08
qense:)15:08
qenseit's already 16:08 here, but still two hours until it's 16:00 UTC15:08
jaredbuckit's a little after 7 am in my neck of the woods.15:09
gnomefreak10 here15:09
qensethekorn: When I upgraded my fathers computer to hardy the upgrade programs removed the five-a-day program. I think this was done because the repository containing the tool was (temporally) disabled. But is this a bug in five-a-day or in the updater? I don't like it when programs I'm using are removed during an upgrade. ;)15:16
qensepedro is also having a talk about the bugsquad tomorrows15:18
thekornqense, I'm by no means a packaging magician, i've no clue, the simpliest answer for me is: it's the updater ;)15:19
thekornbut feel free to open a bugreport and add a five-a-day task and we can try to sort it out15:20
qenseI think I'm going to do that15:20
qensebut what's the package for the updater?15:20
thekornnot sure, maybe update-manager15:21
james_wqense: did you grab the logs from the upgrade?15:22
qenseI'm grabbing them at the moment15:23
james_wcool, let us know and we can have a log15:23
james_ws/log/look/15:23
qenseah15:33
qensethe package had a broken dep on libbonobo2-bin15:33
qenseit was a dependency op the applet, which was a dependecy of the program tiself15:33
qenseit's probably already solved15:35
=== gaurav is now known as tazz
affluxmorning15:42
qensehello15:42
jaredbuckgood morning.15:43
MightyTweekmorning!15:43
affluxyippie, bughelper session in ~15 mins15:44
thekorngood morning afflux, how are you doing today ;)15:44
affluxthekorn: I'm fine, could sleep longer than estimated ;)15:45
jaredbuckand it's a double dose of bughelper too - two hrs today.15:45
affluxoh right15:45
jaredbuckyeah. and jcastro's having a q and a session right after.15:47
* afflux will start reading the python packaging logs from yesterday evening15:48
jaredbucktoo technical for me, that.  i read the kde 4 and podcast logs :)15:49
james_42where will the bughelper session be held?15:50
afflux#ubuntu-classroom-chat15:50
affluxargh, not -chat15:50
james_42afflux: thanks15:51
qensethekorn: gl ;)15:57
thekorn;)15:57
qensethe next hugday at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad isn't right I suppose16:05
qenseunless we're going to wait for another year16:05
affluxthat was the wrong button :(16:08
ScottKbdmurray: Would you please emphasize/add as needed in your documentation the bugsquad people should leave sync/merge bugs alone?16:18
ScottKStuff like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wammu/+bug/225669/+activity interferes with our MOTU workflow.16:18
ubottuLaunchpad bug 225669 in wammu "Please sync wammu 0.26-2 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,New]16:18
affluxScottK steals my suggestions!16:19
persiaNah.  It's called "relaying good ideas".  It's collaboration.16:19
affluxoh. ;)16:19
ScottKActually, I think another good rule would be for bugsquad not to touch any bug that has ubuntu-universe-sponsors, ubuntu-main-sponsors, or ubuntu-archive subscribed.16:19
ScottKMy first plan was to hunt down the individual in question and explain it to him, but he's not on IRC right now, so I decided to work on a more systematic approach.16:20
afflux(possibly related:) IMHO our guidelines should be far more visible to new LP users. Lots of users just set bug states without knowing what "fix committed" actually means. Same thing for assignments16:21
qenseyeah, we should integrate it somehow16:22
qensemaybe we should actually use the help system16:22
qenseI've written this as stock reply for Brainstorm bugs: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9509/16:23
affluxhum, that's not really close to the bug interface imho. I learnt about the help system quite some time after I started using LP16:23
qensedo you think it's good enough?16:23
ScottKqense: Personally I'm not a fan of stock replies.  They come across as impersonal and are counter to the idea of Ubuntu being Linux for human beings.16:24
jaredbuckme either.16:24
qenseyeah, I don't use them very often. Almost never actually. ;) But it's a task on the ToDo list, I think at least someone wants to use it.16:24
persiaJust because someone wants to avoid thinking by using a stock reply doesn't mean they should be encouraged.16:29
qense:D16:29
qenseI think ti would be good to discuss with bdmurray if stock replies are really needed16:30
qensebecause (almost?) everypne here says (s)he doesn't use it16:30
affluxthey were useful for me when I started triaging.16:30
affluxI still use some of them to get the "best" wording, since I'm a non-native englishspeaker and I sometimes have to check gramar or similar stuff.16:31
affluxthat does not mean I copy+paste them and click "submit" but rather take parts, adjust them to fit the needs in the respective bug and so on16:31
qensethey are indeed a good guideline16:31
james_wI think recommending that you tweak the wording each time or similar would take away most of the impersonal nature.16:31
persiaafflux: That's a good point.  The stock replies can definitely be useful for people learning English.  It's hard to balance it right, and would likely benefit (as with so much else) from more, and better, documentation.16:32
qensewe could also make checklists for everycase16:32
qenseso you know what to include16:32
james_whowever, ask someone that deals with hundreds of bugs whether they are useful in some circumstances.16:32
affluxexactly16:32
qensepedro!16:33
persiajames_w: TO a certain degree, I agree, but on the days that I've gone over 100 bugs triaged, I've tended to type roughly the same thing in every case, but could rarely cut & paste, as each bug is a little different.16:33
* persia can never get above about 25 unless focusing on vertical triage: lots of bugs in the same category16:33
* afflux recommends https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20080425, there are plenty left and most of them are easy to check off ;)16:36
ScottKI see utility is saying the reply should be along these lines and include these elements.16:36
james_wmaybe I'm wrong then, I've just seen stock replies used for things like duplicates from people like pedro who triage loads of bugs.16:36
ScottKParticularly in the case of duplicates, I think it's important to encourage people to learn and continue to contribute.  I think that's more important that have the bug database more accurate.  Stock replies are not as a rule encouraging to receive.16:38
ScottKEven if he has a basic stock answer, it should still be adjusted for the situation and not just reused verbatim.16:38
persiaI am frequently bothered by finding bugs with the duplicate stock reply and no duplicate marker.  I think it's almost better to have a duplicate marker with no comment.16:39
affluxpersia: not sure. I'm subscribed to a bug with a fairly big number of duplicates and some of them had no comment but just the marker, resulting in people commenting on every bug but the master16:42
bdmurrayScottK: you said bug 225669 right?16:42
ubottuLaunchpad bug 225669 in wammu "Please sync wammu 0.26-2 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22566916:42
persiaafflux: Maybe.  My bother is when I get bugmail saying something is a duplicate with no pointer to the master, as it means I would have to repeat someone else's work in order to follow the thread.16:43
ScottKYes.16:43
bdmurrayAnd the bug shouldn't be confirmed?16:44
ScottKbdmurray: The fundamental problem is bugsquad really shouldn't try to 'improve' these workflow bugs.16:44
bdmurrayScottK: Well these aren't even really bug reports per se.16:44
ScottKbdmurray: No.  Because for a sync request confirmed means that a MOTU has reviewed it and agrees a sync is the correct thing to do.16:44
ScottKExactly.16:44
persiabddebian: Right, but LP is also used for workflow.16:44
affluxpersia: ah yes16:44
KonamThe package gnome-subtitles isn't working as expected on my system. It crash when I try to create a new sub and doesn't open subs that I already have on my hdd16:44
bdmurrayI've mixed feelings about sync requests even being in the bug tracker.16:45
persiabdmurray: I can agree with that, but it's where the archive admins want them for now.  There's the same issue with MainInclusionReports, merges, etc.16:46
bdmurraySo then bug triagers should not touch - MIR, sync requests, merges and needs-packaging bugs?16:46
qensemaybe we should create a separate website for merge/sync requests?16:47
persiaProbably also promotion/demotion bugs, and remove-from-archive bugs.16:47
persiaqense: As long as you have all of subscriptions, LP-authentication, LP-teams, and ability to directly interact with Soyuz, that sounds like a good idea.16:47
qenseif it would be in python you can just use the lp module16:48
persiaWell, except for the interact-with-Soyuz bit.16:48
qenseoh16:48
ScottKqense: A lot of this used to be tracked on the wiki, but it didn't scale.16:49
bdmurrayMy concern is asking people to come help triage bugs excpets for a,b,c,d and sometimes e.16:50
ScottKbdmurray: I think a simple rule is to look and see who's subscribed.  uus/ums/ubuntu-archive/motu-release/ubuntu-release/ubuntu-mir bugs should all be left alone.16:50
qensecan't the LP devs create some automated marker to make this more clear?16:51
ScottKEven if there are issues in those bugs, it's a safe bet someone more experienced is/will look at the bug.16:51
persiaWhat about ubuntu-sru/motu-sru?  Does their workflow get interrupted by changes, or is it better integrated with bugsquad?16:51
persiaqense: Yes, but not soon.  See e.g. bug #180388 as an example of one of those sorts of things16:52
ubottuLaunchpad bug 180388 in malone "Please add status "patched" in bug reports" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18038816:52
qenseit would be great if bugs in specific packages would get a certain flag16:53
persiabug #179857 covers some of the issues as well.16:53
ubottuLaunchpad bug 179857 in malone "Package sponsorships involve awkward bugtracker machinations" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17985716:53
bdmurraypersia: I don't think so as bugs going through SRU are at Confirmed / Triaged state and most mistakes happen to New bugs.16:53
persiabdmurray: I think you're probably right.  I also think the SRU teams are more integrated with their use of bug status as those tend not to be workflow bugs.16:54
qenseWhat should we do with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Triaging ? I haven't had time for it lately and I have to admit that I've also forgotten it.17:56
bdmurrayI thought there was a fair bit of overlap with it and debugging procedures17:57
qenseyes, that's true17:58
bdmurrayFor example if you look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingUpdateManager there is a section for Forwarding Upstream although it isn't necessary17:59
qensethere is also a group of wiki pages about upstream bug trackers17:59
qenseI think we should merge those three groups into one17:59
bdmurrayIt had been my thought that each package, or subsystem, would have a landing page like that17:59
qensethat was also my though18:00
qensebut the upstream peopel didn't reply to my email18:00
qense(except for the libmtp people)18:00
bdmurrayI think some packages will point to the same upstream page so have the upstream page separate makes sense to me18:02
bdmurrayHowever, we could setup an include to make it all on one page18:03
qensebut does the include function already work?18:03
qenseI know there is a marco for that but I don't know if it's already enabled18:03
bdmurrayYes, if you look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Tags you can see network-manager and update-manager tags included18:04
qensewouldn't it be better to create pages like http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Package/* and let that pacakge contain all information we have/need about that package18:05
=== never|mobi is now known as neversfelde|mobi
qenseof course the tags should also be held at Bugs/tags to keep an overview18:05
bdmurrayHaving Bugs/Package/* makes sense and is easier to remember than DebuggingPackage.  I think we'd need to setup redirects though as a fair number of bug reports point to the existing wiki pages18:07
qenseI'd say that we should make the old/current pages redirect to the new one18:09
qensebut it will be a lot of work to gather all information about all packages18:09
bdmurrayright, so looking at the packages with the greatest number of bugs first makes sense to me18:10
qenseare we going to use the packages launchpad uses?18:11
bdmurrayWhat do you mean exactly?18:12
qensein lp you have different names like gnome-system-utils instead of users-admin18:12
qenseI think ti would be the best idea to use gnome-system-utils to limit the amount of work needed18:13
james_wqense: that's the "source" package name, and it's what developers tend to refer to the package as, so I would suggest sticking with that.18:15
james_wif there are packages that are not at all obvious we could set up redirects.18:15
bdmurrayAh, yes naming it the same as the Launchpad package makes sense but maybe we should also add a user-admin page that redirects to the package name18:15
qensehow are we going to gather all the data?18:18
qenseit's quite a lot of work that needs to be done18:19
bdmurrayThe information about how to treat a package?  I think it'll need to happen manually.18:20
qenseyes18:20
qenseI think we need to create some kind of ToDo list where people can assign themselves to a package18:21
qenseis there a way to export a list of packages from LP?18:22
bdmurrayI think we should focus on ones widely used and with lots of bugs first rather than looking at every package in LP18:23
qensebut we need to keep track of what's done at some way18:24
highvoltagehowdy! anyone around?18:25
bdmurrayI could probably get that list18:25
qensehello highvoltage18:25
qenseok18:25
highvoltagehey qense18:25
highvoltageif a bug is resolved in hardy, and the bug was filed against gutsy, then the bug can be resolved right?18:25
highvoltagerefering to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-themes-ubuntu/+bug/136686 in particular18:25
ubottuLaunchpad bug 136686 in firefox-themes-ubuntu "Firefox Human theme needs a resync with human-icon-theme" [Low,New]18:26
qenseyeah, that can probablu18:27
qensebdmurray: shall I create the page directly or do you think it would be better to wait for the list?18:35
bdmurrayqense: which page? we've talked about quite a few things recently18:36
qensea starting page for Bugs/Packages, the progress page for this and maybe a start with the content18:39
bdmurrayI think talking about it with the whole team on the mailing list would be a good idea.18:40
qenseok18:41
qenseI'll try to write a summary of what we've just discussed and mail it to it.18:41
qensebugcontrol or bugsquad?18:41
bdmurraybugsquad I think18:42
qenseok18:42
=== neversfelde|mobi is now known as kubuntu-deIRC
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=== kubuntu-deIRC is now known as neversfelde|mobi
affluxgood night22:54

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