[00:01] Pupeno: you should be able to use the package copy UI in PPA === edson_ is now known as edson [00:14] ogasawara: for linux bugs, should they now be filed against just 'linux' or 'linux-source-2.6.24' or ...? [00:14] bryce: against "linux" now [00:15] ok [00:16] ogasawara: bug #223870 looks like it may be a kernel issue rather than an "ordinary" x crash, but needs some additional kernel-oriented triaging work. Mind taking a look? [00:16] Launchpad bug 223870 in linux "x-server crashes on startup with intel GMA3000" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/223870 [00:16] bryce: np, looking right now [00:32] ogasawara: that also might be one to have Intel test [02:40] damn compiz [02:40] To a lifetime of driver bugs? [02:42] it crashed. again. [02:42] screen froze. [02:43] :( [02:44] Apparently there was a cycle in the animation plugin that could do that, but I think it's fixed in -updates. [02:45] RAOF: it's still in proposed, i have it installed, and i ithink it's hanging more than usual [02:46] * Hobbsee had been testing it from mvo's ppa for a while though [02:46] Sucks. [02:47] hmm, there's some more updates, including an intel driver [04:54] hello [04:54] hello... when i do an objectdump of a binary, what are those addresses i get? [04:54] are they relative addresses of some kind?? [05:10] I have a general question concering the USB Architecture as it exists on a PC: can a USB Host emulate a USB device? [06:01] ugh, where on launchpad was the intrepid new queue again? [06:03] jscinoz: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+queue [06:03] ah thanks [06:04] how long of a delay is there normally between a package being uploaded to Debian Unstable, and it being imported to Ubuntu's new queue? [06:05] Depends on when -archive runs the autosyncer [06:08] If i remember correctly, the freeze for importing packages from unstable is considerably earlier than the other freezes? Some time in june i believe? [06:10] jscinoz: yes, the auto-sync stops at an earlier point [06:10] jscinoz: but until the actual upstream version freeze it's very simple to request a sync anyway [06:10] alright [06:11] Dear Compiz Overlords: [06:11] I suggest that for Intrepid we include some Compiz games. [06:11] Should i give it a bit longer for the auto-sync to do it, or file a syncrequest now? [06:11] compiz games? [06:11] yes. [06:11] I've invented a few good ones while I've been bored in lectures. [06:11] open up 20 or so windows... [06:12] hit super-M to invert the entire screen's colors [06:12] then randomly hit alt-tab and super-n to de-invert individual windows. [06:12] Now, uninvert the whole screen and start a stopwatch [06:12] time how long it takes to get all windows back to the correct color. [06:12] >_< [06:12] (yes, I was really bored during lecture) [06:13] speaking of lectures and education, i really should get back to studying for my preliminaries tomorrow >_< [06:13] or, a random desktop plugin that shuffles your windows across all your desktops [06:13] thanks for the clarification on the autosync thing [06:13] *away* [06:13] sure thing [06:16] Good morning [06:16] Caesar: seems that the patch worked, you can find the package here https://edge.launchpad.net/~tjaalton/+archive [06:33] tjaalton: thanks [06:34] So is it in dapper-proposed now? [06:55] good morning [07:15] Caesar: not yet, it would be nice to test that the patch does what it's supposed to do first :) === hunger_t is now known as hunger === ikonia_ is now known as ikonia [08:32] soren: hello [08:32] soren: do you care about gtk-vnc? [08:35] seb128: I do. [08:35] soren: do you know about bug #206227? I think that's something we should try to get fixed for 8.04.1 [08:35] Launchpad bug 206227 in gtk-vnc "vinagre fails to connect" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206227 [08:36] soren: http://gtk-vnc.codemonkey.ws/hg/outgoing.hg/rev/e1b964facd65 seems to be the upstream fix for the issue [08:36] soren: also bug #207205 [08:36] Launchpad bug 207205 in gtk-vnc "vinagre crashed with SIGSEGV in memcpy()" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207205 [08:37] You seem to have done all the work already? :) What do you need me for? [08:37] soren: no, I'm just reading bug mail, I don't want to do the actual testing and update ;-) [08:37] soren: you are better placed than me to make sure it doesn't create issues for the virt stack [08:39] seb128: The problem is that the virt-stack is very well behaved (in this context at least). I have very little clue about all the quirks of commercial vnc servers and all that jazz. [08:39] seb128: pochu has been very interested in this in the past. Maybe we can get him to drive it. [08:39] soren: well, the idea is basically to backport the change, verify it fixes the issue (trying to connect to a dapper box should be enough to test apparently) and that virt things are still working correctly and upload [08:40] soren: ok, will talk to him, thanks [08:40] soren: he commented on the bugs already [08:41] soren: bug #218667 mentions that the new version creates virt-manager issues that's why I want somebody to test it after patching [08:41] Launchpad bug 218667 in gtk-vnc "Please allow gtk-vnc 0.3.5 into Hardy" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218667 [08:42] pochu: ^ do you think you could try to prepare a gtk-vnc sru fixing those issues? [08:46] pochu: In particular, it seems that Jonh knows exactly which commits would fix this, so if we could just cherry-pick those (instead of importing new gtk-vnc and vinagre versions wholesale), that would be great. [08:48] Hi! I have a question: Is there a concerted effort to translate package descriptions into local languages? :-) [09:25] hey this might be a little out of place, but does apt/can apt download multiple packages concurrently? if apt-torrent or something similar were to ever mature, that might be a desirable feature === jpinto is now known as joaopinto [09:30] Ademan: if you use multiple mirrors in your sources.list, it already downloads multiple packages at once [09:31] Company: ah, cool [09:36] Ademan: we don't want it to hammer our mirrors like that, as a general rule ... [09:36] when you multiply that sort of thing up by millions of users it starts to turn into serious server abuse [09:38] cjwatson: well, i'm curious more in terms of apt-p2p and debtorrent, as i'm really big on the idea of RELIEVING repository stress, and I think peer to peer apt would certainly go a long way to doing that. But since it's rather unlikely that you will max out your connections download speed downloading from a handful of peers, it would be useful to concurrently download multiple packages via a peer to peer system [09:39] download multiple packages concurrently* [09:40] just saying that's why it doesn't do that at the moment [09:41] <\sh> Ademan, how does the trust model work for apt-p2p? actually, who can someone achieve, that peer X doesn't inject malicous packages? [09:41] cjwatson: ah, so is the functionality there though? just disabled? [09:41] Ademan: I doubt it [09:41] <\sh> s/who/how/ [09:41] Ademan: (but I'm not an apt developer) [09:42] \sh: AFAIK it still checks against (signed) archive checksums afterwards [09:42] \sh: the way i envision it existing packages.gz files would provide hashes for the files in question, plus packages are signed, correct? [09:42] individual packages are NOT signed [09:42] ah [09:42] Is it normal when edit the gnome-terminal LAUNCHER (in the panel) and I add "sudo" (or "gksudo") before "gnome-terminal" command. I'm using directly the root user without password ... ?? [09:42] each package's checksum is in Packages.gz, Packages.gz's checksum is in Release, and Release is signed [09:42] ... in a terminal when I do "sudo gnome-terminal", at the same time I hate to put my password ... [09:43] so you don't need to go around separately verifying signatures from however many developers are involved [09:43] ... in a terminal when I do "sudo gnome-terminal", at the same time I have to put my password ... [09:43] that makes sense [09:43] seb128, soren: I prepared gtk-vnc, although it was 0.3.5, but a user reported quite a few regressions so I'm afraid of breaking the virt stuff [09:44] seb128: soren: bug 218667 [09:44] Launchpad bug 218667 in gtk-vnc "Please allow gtk-vnc 0.3.5 into Hardy" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218667 [09:44] anyways, it certainly feels less secure, but i don't believe it should be a problem [09:44] pochu: I've nominated 3 bugs for hardy, do you want to backport the corresponding changes? [09:44] * \sh is just afraid about the chain of trust...I trust the *.ubuntu.com infrastructure more then I trust any temp source of download for packages ;) [09:45] lol [09:45] \sh: uh, the Packages file is signed so that doesn't matter. [09:45] pochu: the crash on closing, the compatibility mode and the powperpc color issue [09:45] pochu: those have no reason to break keyboard, etc, and hardy-proposed is there to test changes before pushing to updates [09:45] the only thing that apt-torrent would change is that it would become much easier to attack checksums [09:45] plus i like the idea of using /var/cache/apt for 'seeding' packages, since that means the most popular packages will theoretically be fastest [09:46] at the moment you have to take over a full-scale mirror to try that kind of attack [09:46] with apt-torrent, you'd be able to attempt collision attacks on individual packages [09:46] which does scare me a bit (not as much as \sh's description, but a bit) [09:46] wouldn't adding another simple metric like file size make a hash collision nearly impossible? (with malicious code anyways) [09:46] <\sh> cjwatson, which is quite easy with a small ammount of criminal energy [09:46] Ademan: not in the slightest (anyway, size is already checked) [09:47] Ademan: if you read the literature on collisions they're normally if anything easier to construct with the same file size [09:47] cjwatson: interesting, i would have assumed that adding a second constraint of any sort would make it tougher to do [09:47] not that one [09:47] lol [09:48] the biggest constraint that makes a difference is that the result still has to be a valid .deb [09:48] which I think means we probably aren't in serious danger right now [09:48] cjwatson: ah, true [09:48] but I would not bet money on that continuing to be the case [09:49] Ademan: the thing is that you have to add an *independent* constraint, and it turns out that size and checksum are not as independent as you might think; as a rough unmathematical demonstration, think of the structure of the hash algorithm - the number of iterations of the hash you perform is very much related to the file size [09:50] Ademan: similarly, other hash algorithms with a "sort of similar" structure aren't independent either; it turns out that MD5 + SHA1 gives you about 6 extra bits of security over SHA1 alone, which is much less than many people expect [09:50] cjwatson: ah true, this may fall into the same category, but would having two independent hash algorithms help? say SHA-1 and MD5 work? [09:50] ahah [09:50] no :-) [09:51] you're much better picking a single good one [09:51] concatenating hashes is a waste of time [09:51] hrm [09:51] unfortunately, right now, there are no good hashes [09:51] argh argh argh intltool [09:52] in the sense that there are none that cryptanalysts aren't on a path towards breaking [09:52] do *.debs preserve file attributes like creation and modification dates? [09:52] .debs contain a tarball for the actual filesystem data, so yes [09:53] well that might be effective, even if it's not included in Packages.gz, a file manifest with creation and modification dates sounds effective [09:53] not really; bear in mind that metadata is a minority of the content [09:54] I suggest not worrying about it for now; armchair cryptography is usually a lot harder than it looks. :-) [09:54] lol [09:54] well i really am interested in working on apt-p2p, but the last thing i want to do is create a gaping security hole lol [09:54] I don't think you really are - it's a concern but not a gaping one [09:55] as in, it lowers the bar to attacks that aren't yet feasible, but maybe will be some day - but if they are then we'll have to address that *anyway* [09:56] and this sort of thing has been improved lately by switching to SHA256 in Packages [09:58] hrm, well i suppose i'll heap apt-p2p on my giant list of crap i want to contribute to [09:58] lol [10:02] ScottK: hello [10:02] I tested with glest-data, everything works fine [10:07] doko: did you see slangasek's questions on bug 222876? [10:07] Launchpad bug 222876 in gcc-3.3 "package gcc-3.3-doc 1:3.3.6-15ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/222876 [10:09] ScottK or jdong: could one of you ack bug 227225 please ? [10:09] Launchpad bug 227225 in gutsy-backports "Please backport glest-data from Hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227225 [10:35] someone can add tmp execption in fiordland.ubuntu.com? [10:38] emgent: why not use the --lp option? [10:38] as I suggested last night, but you didn't respond [10:39] i used it, but dont work [10:40] <\sh> emgent, did you install this lp-support python package? [10:40] yes [10:40] then you need to talk to #canonical-sysadmin if you want changes to fiordland [10:41] \sh: python-launchpad-bugs ? [10:41] <\sh> emgent, yes... [10:41] yes is in [10:41] <\sh> or python-launchpad-integration something like this [10:42] i use p-l-b for anteater (u-whitehat) and work fine [10:42] only requestsync dont work to me.. [10:42] <\sh> hmm....but I thought the public smtp server is open to everyone, even without having an ubuntu.com address?! [10:42] DktrKranz2: say to me that fiordland accept only @ubuntu.com address [10:43] <\sh> emgent, nope...I don't use my @ubuntu.com address, it's at least attached to my lp account....but first used email is my sourcecode.de address... [10:44] oh ok [10:44] <\sh> emgent, it even works when you use a local smtp server which sends the email from your local system [10:45] <\sh> emgent, important is only the gpg sig to the mail, your key needs to be known to lp...anyways...going back to work :) [10:46] yes i know [10:49] anyway i'm talking with canonical-sysadmin [10:49] thanks for all now :) [10:51] pitti: replied and fixed, please reject the package, to be honest ... I think fixing this was a waste of time [10:59] cjwatson \sh [10:59] (11:57) ( Ng) emgent: well from our MTA logs it looks like your mail was delivered fine, so we'll need to check with the launchpad guys for what their code did with it [11:17] doko: ok; nothing to reject, though, it's not in the queue [11:21] doko: ah, now it's there, uploaded 33 seconds ago :) [11:23] ArneGoetje, asac I should ask you about font substutition in gnome/firefox/etc regarding Chinese fonts [11:24] I have long had problems when using simplified chinese that first a traditional chinese font is chosen and if the glyph fails in there it falls back to a simplified chinese font [11:24] but the two fonts used have different typefaces and sometimes the simplified font is hard to read. This often happens to me in thunderbird. [11:24] victory747: which font settings do you use? [11:26] in thunderbird, or in gnome, or in what? [11:28] victory747: in Hardy WQY ZenHei is the default font for sans-serif and monospace and therefor the default on the desktop. And this one is a Simplified Chinese font which is fairly complete in the CJK Basic area. For Serif, AR PL UMing CN is used in the zh_CN locale, which does not follow any shape standard yet and therefor you will see mixed HK and CN style glyphs. This is work in progress. Otherwise we don't have any free purely simplified [11:29] victory747: ok, other question: did you do a fresh hardy install or did you upgrade from a previous version? Also, which locale setting do you use? [11:32] ArneGoetje, this was on a fresh gutsy install [11:32] victory747: try upgrade to hardy [11:32] ArneGoetje, my hardy machine was upgraded, but I'm not sure if it has that problem or not [11:32] victory747: which locale do you use? [11:33] ArneGoetje, The menus don't have problems, it's more things like web pages or text messages in thunderbird. using zh_CN [11:33] zh_CN.UTF-8 [11:34] for firefox and thunderbird you may need to tweak the font settings yourself in the Preferences dialog. [11:34] victory747: although, on my hardy machine the fonts are chosen correctly for Chinese. [11:36] ArneGoetje, I'll look at it more in hardy and see if I can't find problems there. I just remember being disapointed that it still was not working as expected but I don't have any specifics. [11:36] Where is the order of font substitution set? [11:36] victory747: what does fontconfig-voodoo -l show ? [11:36] zh_TW [11:36] ja_JP [11:36] ko_KR [11:36] zh_HK [11:36] zh_SG [11:36] zh_CN [11:36] zh_MO [11:36] ka_GE [11:37] I wish we could change that for zh_CN locale. [11:37] victory747: change what for zh_CN locale? [11:37] ArneGoetje, where is the list of fonts used. [11:37] change the order of font substituion [11:38] I mean where is the order of font substitution specified. [11:38] victory747: the order of font substitution is correct for zh_CN. the question is just if your system picks it up or not [11:38] victory747: /etc/fonts/conf.d/ [11:38] oh? But I would want to use a simplified font before a traditional font in ALL situations [11:39] victory747: that;s the default setting [11:39] oh, even in gutsy? maybe it's just my thunderbird that's messed up [11:39] victory747: we just don't have any purely simplified Song style font available. [11:40] right, you said that [11:40] victory747: in gutsy we don't have any purely simplified font available. [11:41] ArneGoetje, mabye I should do a clean install in vmware to test because my systems are always such a mess anyway [11:41] victory747: that';s why I suggest to upgrade to hardy [11:41] ArneGoetje, I'll try to find some good cases - I have nothing specific right now that I can give to you [11:42] victory747: as I said, on gutsy there is no purely simpplified font available. Therefore you can't change it. [11:42] ArneGoetje, ok, i'll upgrade my other computer to hardy soon and see how it works [11:42] victory747: ok [11:43] ArneGoetje, do you suggest a fresh install instead? I would probably do that anyway. [11:43] victory747: depends on if you've messed around with fontconfig or not... [11:44] ArneGoetje, I'll try a fresh install I think - mostly i'm interested in the experience of chinese nationals [11:45] victory747: ok [11:45] * ArneGoetje gotta go now... === azeem_ is now known as azeem [11:59] asac, my FF cashes if i use and close gmail (i rarely use the web interface so i didnt notice yet) [11:59] ogra: start ffox in -safe-mode [12:00] and see if you still get that [12:00] one sec [12:01] woah, a million password popups [12:02] asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/10491/ [12:02] silent segfault [12:07] ogra: i think its -safe-mode not --safe-mode [12:07] oh [12:07] well, it looked quite different and opened the granparadiso startpage [12:08] (didnt use the stored window size etc) [12:08] but i can try again [12:09] ogra: how can you reproduce? for me it doesn't crash [12:09] any idea when the intrepid web forum will open up? [12:10] asac, open gmail, go to the spam folder let it sit there for some seconds, close the tab and see ff vanishing with it === cprov is now known as cprov-lunch [12:10] ogra: running -proposed? or intrepid? [12:11] are you crazy ? i wouldnt run intrepid :) [12:12] running -proposed [12:12] http://paste.ubuntu.com/10494/ [12:12] one dash gives a bit more output :) [12:12] wonders if anyone is really mad enough to run intrepid before UDS :) [12:13] mozillateam folks are all on intrepid already ;) [12:13] not my idea :) [12:13] asac: does X run for them? :) [12:13] wow, thats what i call couraged [12:13] haven't asked that much in depth ... but i think so ;) [12:13] it doesn't run in my kvm session [12:14] * ogra wouldnt run intrepid for money [12:14] just FYI, we now have intrepid supported by the bot package lookup ;) [12:14] ogra: why not, it's certainly fun? [12:14] pitti, i have work to do :) [12:15] cjwatson: i saw now, if i use requestsync with --lp script give a little output with "Could not find Firefox cookie file [12:15] ogra: Not even enough to purchase a test box? [12:15] " [12:15] ogra: in a way, you *do* get money for it :-P [12:15] * pitti hugs ogra [12:15] pitti, lol, indeed :) [12:15] * ogra hugs pitti [12:15] but seems strange, anteater use l-p-b and work fine. [12:15] (with firefox cookies) [12:15] actually it's the first release where I did *not* upgrade to the new dev release immediately [12:15] same for me [12:15] ogra: are you in the SRU team? otherwise you must upgrade now ;) [12:15] yeah, there is crazy breakage ahead [12:15] ogra: I distinctly remember back in the Edgy days when your machine was broken in so many ways and all you had to say was "Edgy is so much fun". :) [12:15] * pitti hugs seb128, the fix-hardy-harder companion [12:15] I'm pondering installing it somewhere though [12:16] * seb128 hugs pitti [12:16] ogra: Oh, google remembers, too: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/07/07/%23ubuntu-devel.txt [12:16] :) [12:16] asac, oh, u-m didnt tell me yet [12:16] I think I'll get a vm running it to upload GNOME srus to intreprid too at least [12:16] emgent: ah, right, well that should be easy to fix I guess [12:17] ogra: can you install -dbgsym for xulrunner-1.9 and firefox-3.0 and get a backtrace please? [12:17] try: [12:17] cookiefile = glob.glob(os.path.expanduser('~/.mozilla/*/*/cookies.txt'))[0] [12:17] i will try to paste path ? [12:17] except IndexError: [12:17] print >> sys.stderr, 'Could not find Firefox cookie file' [12:17] return False [12:17] ogra: But of course you were younger back then. Slightly. :) [12:17] aha [12:17] ogra: and try with a fresh profile (keep a backup of the old one in case its that) [12:17] it's cookies.sqlite in firefox 3 [12:17] soren, haha, yeah the old times :) [12:17] emgent: the version of requestsync in ubuntu-dev-tools trunk fixes this [12:18] ok thanks cjwatson i will take a look [12:18] bug 208808 [12:18] Launchpad bug 208808 in ubuntu-dev-tools "requestsync crashed with LPUrlError in _safe_urlopen()" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208808 [12:19] asac, btw, nothing ff related in proposed for me ... sadly i cant compare before and after the xulrunner update i got yesterday, i didnt open gmail in this ff at all since the machine was installed until today [12:20] ogra: in -proposed there is a xulrunner-1.9 upgrade [12:20] asac, yes, got that yesterday [12:20] true [12:20] asac: FWIW (and it's highly subjective) the I/O problems seem a lot better now [12:20] with that xulrunner-1.9 [12:21] cjwatson: comment on bug :) [12:21] will do at some point :) [12:21] cjwatson: bug 215728 [12:21] Launchpad bug 215728 in xulrunner-1.9 "[MASTER] Committing to urlclassifier3.sqlite causes excessive CPU usage and disk I/O" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215728 [12:21] ok, ill try to remember to remember you in a few days. [12:22] ah, never mind, I'll do it now [12:22] thanks [12:23] cjwatson: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-whitehat/ubuntu-whitehat-project/uwht.dev/revision/emgent%40emanuele-gentili.com-20080408225722-t2k7o6n8z4ztz43l?start_revid=emgent%40emanuele-gentili.com-20080409012057-5lmtoh9tc6cim8wu#anteater/anteater.py-s [12:23] i will try to fix with: glob.glob(os.path.expanduser("~/.mozilla/firefox/*/cookies.sqlite")).pop() [12:24] pitti: if you happen to be working on NEW, I'm happy to answer questions on the ffmpeg-free package if necessary. it replaces the current 'ffmpeg' source package which is in main. [12:24] siretart: Riddell's archive day today, I'll get to it on Friday [12:24] asac: it's bug 226156 [12:24] Launchpad bug 226156 in xorg "After update in intrepid branch Xorg " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/226156 [12:25] pitti: Ah, never mind then [12:25] cjwatson: solved, now work fine. [12:25] Riddel: if you happen to be working on NEW, I'm happy to answer questions on the ffmpeg-free package if necessary. it replaces the current 'ffmpeg' source package which is in main. :) [12:25] emgent: excellent [12:26] pitti,evand: does encrypted-filesystems need another session at UDS (for ubiquity support)? it's on my roadmap, but I'm inclined to think it probably doesn't need a session [12:26] dholbach: "branch" == crash? [12:26] asac, same issue with a fresh profile, installing dbgsym now [12:27] ogra: what kind of spam do you have ;) [12:27] cjwatson: I agree; the discussion bits are done, it's a "simple" matter of programming now IMHO [12:27] pitti: ok [12:27] I generally try to keep things that didn't get done on the roadmap so that they don't get forgotten about [12:28] asac: Xorg does not find fonts with the new libxfont - that's why it bombs out [12:28] asac, well, there seems to be about over 20000 msgs (as i said i never use the web interface, i only pop my mail into evo from there so i only clean thatup once every decade :) ) [12:28] ogra: all on one page? [12:28] nope [12:29] default setting (100 per page i think) [12:29] ogra: you added "stripped-down lightweight kernel flavour" to the platform roadmap. Extra kernel flavours generally give me the willies because they increase build time a lot - is this just removing unnecessary modules, or is there more to it? [12:30] cjwatson, its more about the core image, i was thinking about handling the modules in the initrmfs profiling spec (they somewhat belong together) [12:31] what is in the core image that could be stripped down to improve performance? [12:31] bearing in mind that simply removing features generally only improves size, not performance [12:31] or is performance not what you meant? [12:31] thats what i want to determine in the process of that spec :) [12:32] I have indeed put modules in the initramfs profiling spec [12:32] well, ram hunger rather [12:32] ogra: could you discuss this one with BenC? I don't feel it really belongs in platform, but perhaps he has room for it [12:32] archlinux uses our ltsp implementation using a 2.6.24 kernel as we do, but their kernel manages to boot in 16M [12:32] and can stick you in on his agenda so that you can be pulled in [12:33] ogra: Who? me? [12:33] thats my main pointer here, i'd like to compare our default setup to theirs and whatever else i find booting in such a setup [12:33] hunger, do you have ram for breakfast usually ? else no, not you ;) [12:34] ogra: Nope I usually have cornflakes, so not me, great:-) [12:34] :) [12:34] cjwatson, that spec would also go hand in hand with the compcache one [12:34] ogra: Any way you can use MODULES=dep for initramfs on the clients? [12:34] ogra: or am I missing what you want to do? [12:35] BenC, my core kernel (before using the intramfs) already needs more than 24M (32M if it should even be able to uncompress the initramfs) [12:35] BenC, and thats with netboot (i.e. only NIC drivers in the initramfs) [12:36] BenC, modules=dep is already a good way, but i think that can be improved as well [12:37] BenC, my focus in that spec is on the kernl image itself and the space it needs to load, independently of the initramfs [12:37] ogra: Then you are suggesting a custom flavor kernel for ltsp to use? [12:37] BenC, generally for low ram systems [12:37] or maybe that we can improve our current -generic config [12:37] not tsp specific [12:37] right, either [12:37] gotcha [12:38] ogra: sounds like a good spec...can you email me a reminder? [12:38] it will also be relevant for subnotebooks etc [12:38] BenC, will do [12:39] * ogra would love to get back to the sizes bootfloppies used to need ... [12:51] Riddell: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kaffeine/+bug/226475/comments/6 ?? [12:51] Launchpad bug 226475 in kaffeine "remove dvd code install" [Undecided,Fix released] [12:52] pitti: just a jest for the chap who closed the bug [13:08] mneptok: ping [13:12] sivang! [13:26] pitti: thanks for your mail regarding the mythbuntu-control-centre SRU. IMHO it's not necessary that the first upload is promoted to -updates, i'd rather see the second one there. or is that against policy? [13:29] Does anyone here know something about the mesa package? [13:29] I'd like to know why glw was removed [13:30] ... which annoys me a great deal since I am looking at source code that needs it [13:34] mok0, check the changelog, it should tell you [13:34] ogra: it tells me that it has been removed, not why [13:34] for sure it does [13:34] ogra: lesstif? [13:34] look closer [13:35] to remove lesstif deps? [13:35] if it says so [13:35] ogra: is lesstif deprecated? [13:36] * ogra doesnt do anything with mesa, but knows we write proper changelogs usually .-) [13:37] I still don't understand the reason for removing a software component that is needed by several programs [13:38] Unless there's a working replacement, which there isn't in this case [13:38] very likely because it would pull lesstif into main if it did build dep on it [13:38] ogra: well, then it should move to universe [13:39] so you that would lose 3D support all over in ubuntu ? [13:39] mesa needs to be in main -- other things in main require it. [13:40] ... or another source package could build the missing bits [13:40] StevenK, well, i guess it would be possible to drop it and go back to fvwm2 as default desktop :P [13:40] Sorry to sound uptight, but I just a wee bit annoyed to get stuck at this point [13:41] mok0, the optimal solution would be to convince upstream to release it in a separate tarball, then it could build on its own in universe [13:41] To be completly honest, this is like the first time I've seen someone actually miss GLw. [13:42] StevenK: I just googled for it, and there are many people wanting it [13:42] I meant on IRC [13:43] laga: no, it's not against policy, it just makes testing increasingly more difficult [13:43] Perhaps I am looking at old code, but I don't have a whole lot of motivation to spend days with it [13:43] I just need to compile this code and get on with it [13:43] mok0: use Debian? [13:43] or just locally rebuild the Debian mesa package against Ubuntu [13:44] azeem: yeah [13:44] azeem: will be interesting to see what then breaks [13:44] StevenK: I think I complained once, when one of my packages got stripped of its OpenGL features in Ubuntu [13:44] never realized this was because of the main/universe split, I assumed some technical/maintainance issues [13:45] azeem: probably because only very few packages deal with 3D graphics [13:46] GL isn't the problem, GLw is. [13:46] azeem: ... and Ubuntu aims to be a 2D graphics distribution.~ [13:46] mok0: Sigh. [13:46] StevenK: Sorry :-) [13:46] And I think GLw affects like what, five packages. [13:46] mok0: eh yes, that was some pretty stupid reasoning here [13:46] StevenK: there might be tons of legacy code, dunno [13:47] StevenK: plus an unknown number of tarballs and locally developed software [13:47] What it would need is some interested MOTU who would make an appropriate package ... [13:47] * ScottK looks around at who that might be .... [13:47] * mok0 hides [13:47] :) [13:47] * mok0 sighs [13:48]