[00:05] <no0tic> hi everyone :) I would like to start contributing in MOTU, I've already read on the wiki but it's not clear how to _really_ start contributing :)
[00:07] <no0tic> I would like to initially focus on packaging new revisions of some packages like rtorrent and irssi, for example, but I'm also willing to help in any other type of package work
[00:09] <no0tic> ok, irssi is in main :)
[00:10] <coppro> if it's in main, don't bother
[00:10] <mathiaz> no0tic: we're currently merging packages from Debian unstable in Ubuntu
[00:10] <mathiaz> no0tic: have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
[00:11] <no0tic> ok I'm reading, thanks
[00:15] <ScottK> Even more important right now is finding changes that can be sent back to Debian so maybe later in the release cycle we can sync from Debian.
[00:16] <no0tic> utnubu? :)
[00:17] <ScottK> Generally I find filing bugs with patches for the relevant changes works best.
[00:17] <ScottK> The trick is knowing which are relevant and which are not.
[00:18] <ScottK> Feel free to ask if you're uncertain.
[00:22] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, i could help you with merges im learning too and i quite understand them xD
[00:22] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, nice!
[00:25] <no0tic> I really don't know where to start from :)
[00:27] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, ok let's see... to merge what you need first is to obtain the grab-merge.sh script: http://merges.ubuntu.com/grab-merge.sh
[00:27] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, done!
[00:29] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, then install all the packaging tools listed here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete because after doing all necessary changes, we might need test if the package builds
[00:30] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, already done previously ;)
[00:30] <LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: make that, "we will always need to test if the package builds" :-)
[00:30] <LaserJock> even if it's a sync
[00:30] <RoAkSoAx> ok you will also need debootstrap to create a chroot enviroment
[00:30] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, ok :)
[00:31] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, so then... first we will have to obtain a package to merge. we will try with a package i just merged today... it is called virt-viewer
[00:32] <RoAkSoAx> note that all packages needed to be merge (or might need to be synced) are here: http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html or here: http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php
[00:32] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, yes, I was staring at that page :)
[00:33] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, so create a work dir, for example: mkdir virt-viewer
[00:33] <RoAkSoAx> cd virt-viewer
[00:33] <RoAkSoAx> and then: ../grab-merge.sh virt-viewer
[00:33] <no0tic> ok
[00:33] <RoAkSoAx> it will download all the necessary packages
[00:34] <cheatr> whois cheatr
[00:34] <coppro> you
[00:35] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, is the downloading process finished?
[00:35] <cheatr> coppro: Yeah, wrong window, lol
[00:35] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, yes
[00:35] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, ok, so if you see. there is a file named REPORT that will show us where are the conflicts that we will need to fix
[00:36] <no0tic> ok, I'll read it
[00:36] <RoAkSoAx> in the section conflicts it will show us that there are conflicts in  C  debian/control
[00:37] <no0tic> found
[00:37] <RoAkSoAx> ok, so we have to check that file
[00:38] <RoAkSoAx> first we enter the package directory
[00:38] <RoAkSoAx> cd virt-viewer-0.0.3-2ubuntu1
[00:38] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, I know something of basic commands ;)
[00:38] <RoAkSoAx> and we open the file: vim debian/control
[00:38] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, and something of packages structure
[00:38] <RoAkSoAx> hahaha no0tic yeah i know.. but i'm used to help newbies :P
[00:38] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, eheh :)
[00:38] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, ok, I'm in, anyway :)
[00:39] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, I can read conflicts :)
[00:39] <no0tic> <<<<<<<<<<<< and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lines :)
[00:39] <RoAkSoAx> yep... so, what it is telling us is that the conflicts are referred basically to Build-depends
[00:39] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, changes in mantainer build-depends and standard version
[00:40] <RoAkSoAx> yep
[00:40] <RoAkSoAx> so first of all, we are going to check the changelog
[00:40] <no0tic> it seems it no longer depends on libgtk2.0-dev, dpatch, libxen3-dev
[00:41] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, nope, the first fields are ubuntu related, and the parts of below are the debian related
[00:41] <RoAkSoAx> so we have to see the changelog to understand what changes were done when they were merged the last time
[00:41] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, ok, so on debian it doesn't depend on those
[00:41] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, ok
[00:41] <RoAkSoAx> yep
[00:41] <no0tic> Changelog or debian/changelog ?
[00:42] <RoAkSoAx> yep
[00:42] <no0tic> I suppose the latter
[00:42] <RoAkSoAx> i use dch -e
[00:42] <no0tic> done
[00:43] <RoAkSoAx> check the last merge, that it was done for hardy and you'll see that they added a package to build depends
[00:44] <no0tic> a second
[00:44] <no0tic> build depend on recent libgtk-vnc (>= 0.3.4)
[00:44] <no0tic> debian/control: depend on gtk that has gtk_widget_is_composited
[00:44] <RoAkSoAx> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10358/
[00:44] <RoAkSoAx> there
[00:45] <no0tic> ok
[00:45] <no0tic> ok last hardy change
[00:45] <RoAkSoAx> so if you can see the ubuntu version aAdd libxen3-dev to Build-Depends.
[00:45] <no0tic> yes
[00:45] <Laney> Has anyone had/fixed an error about libc6 when creating an Intrepid pbuilder?
[00:46] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, but then it seems that debian has synced the package back, no?
[00:47] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, they released a new upstream version
[00:47] <RoAkSoAx> but still there are changes between ubuntu and debian packages since ubuntu might not have the same names
[00:48] <no0tic> ok
[00:48] <RoAkSoAx> so, we've seen the changelog and it is telling us that build-depends have been modified in relation to debian
[00:49] <RoAkSoAx> so we are confirming that those changes showed in debian control were added in ubuntu and might remain like that
[00:50] <RoAkSoAx> because we can use debian changes, ubuntu changes or combine them
[00:51] <RoAkSoAx> so, to know further we have to check the differences between the older ubuntu version, and the older debian version, we do this in : ../virt-viewer_0.0.2-1ubuntu1.patch
[00:51] <RoAkSoAx> you can open it with any editor you like
[00:51] <RoAkSoAx> i use gedit cuz it shows it in colors and stuff
[00:51] <RoAkSoAx> so in hat file we go to the debian/control part
[00:52] <no0tic> ok
[00:52] <RoAkSoAx> in that file, debian/control shows this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10361/
[00:52] <no0tic> yes, I found it in red :)
[00:52] <no0tic> I use kde :P
[00:52] <RoAkSoAx> we now there that the maintainer , and original maintainer changed
[00:53] <RoAkSoAx> as well as build-depends
[00:53] <RoAkSoAx> and we can see that ubuntu added 2 new packages: dpatch, libxen3-dev
[00:53] <no0tic> yes, we already knew that :) now we are here to fix things, I suppose
[00:54] <RoAkSoAx> yeah we already new that but we should verify it in that .patch file because it will show the exact changes
[00:55] <no0tic> ok
[00:55] <RoAkSoAx> so now, we have to verify what has changed in the newer debian version against the older debian version
[00:55] <RoAkSoAx> so we open ../virt-viewer_0.0.3-2.patch
[00:56] <RoAkSoAx> go to the debian/control part
[00:56] <RoAkSoAx> and see that the only thing that has changed is libgtk-vnc-1.0-dev (>= 0.3.4)
[00:57] <RoAkSoAx> right?
[00:57] <no0tic> yes
[00:57] <RoAkSoAx> and we also see that standards version has changed from 7.3.2 to 7.3.3
[00:57] <RoAkSoAx> 3.7.3*
[00:57] <RoAkSoAx> 3.7.2*
[00:58] <no0tic> sorry, I'm helping folks on #ubuntu-it in the meanwhile :)
[00:58] <no0tic> yes
[00:58] <no0tic> ok, here I am
[00:58] <RoAkSoAx> ok, so if we check the changelog again, or the other .patch file (of the older version) we will see that ubuntu already made the change of standards version from 3.7.2 to 3.7.3 so we keep it like that
[00:59] <RoAkSoAx> and now, in the newer debian version, they changed libgtk-vnc-1.0-dev (>= 0.3.4)
[00:59] <RoAkSoAx> so, comparing the oldes ubuntu version with this newer debian version, we can see that the only thing that changed in debian is libgtk-vnc-1.0-dev (>= 0.3.4)
[00:59] <RoAkSoAx> and since we are merging we should check that all packages are the same in the ubuntu repos
[00:59] <LaserJock> oh?
[01:00] <RoAkSoAx> we will find that they are... so.. since debian is the newer version we will have to use the build-depends of this newer debian version, but we have to add the changes made in the ubuntu older version
[01:01] <no0tic> ok
[01:01] <RoAkSoAx> so our build depends will look like: Build-Depends: cdbs, debhelper (>= 5), autotools-dev, libvirt-dev, libgtk-vnc-1.0-dev (>= 0.3.4), libxml2-dev, libgtk2.0-dev (>= 2.10), dpatch, libxen3-dev
[01:01] <RoAkSoAx> Standards-Version: 3.7.3
[01:01] <no0tic> LaserJock, too much mess?
[01:01] <LaserJock> I'm trying to follow all this :-)
[01:01] <RoAkSoAx> note that we are adding:  dpatch, libxen3-dev were added to the build depends
[01:02] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, yes, this is written in the changelogs
[01:02] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, nope, note yet
[01:02] <RoAkSoAx> just keep aside the build-depends
[01:02] <no0tic> Add libxen3-dev to Build-Depends.
[01:03] <no0tic> anyway
[01:03] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, we dont take note of that because it was already added in the older ubuntu version. so it is on the changelog
[01:03] <RoAkSoAx> and in the changelog we only write changes in UBuntu and not changes in debian
[01:03] <no0tic> ok
[01:03] <no0tic> understood
[01:03] <RoAkSoAx> so, after knowing how our build depends are going to be, we have to make the change in debian/control and it will look like this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10363/
[01:04] <no0tic> ok
[01:04] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, I'm editing it
[01:05] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, libgtk2.0-dev changed too
[01:05] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, it depends on 2.10 a least
[01:05] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, and previously didn't
[01:05] <RoAkSoAx> yep!
[01:06] <RoAkSoAx> but we don't put that as a change in the changelog because it is not a Ubuntu specific change.. it is debian's
[01:06] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, yes, but we need to change it on our new build-depends
[01:06] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, yes, we are taking the build-deps of the .patch file of the newer debian version
[01:07] <RoAkSoAx> and adding the changes made by ubuntu in the older version
[01:07] <RoAkSoAx> i mean, adding dpatch, libxen3-dev
[01:07] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, ok
[01:07] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, now I've really understood :)
[01:08] <RoAkSoAx> ok, so the debian/control file is done, with the new build-depends
[01:08] <RoAkSoAx> so, now we head up to the changelog
[01:08] <RoAkSoAx> dch -e
[01:08] <no0tic> ok, what we need to put in there?
[01:09] <RoAkSoAx> in the changelog we only put the Ubuntu specific changes...
[01:09] <brica1> can anyone point me in the right direction if i'd like to contribute to dh-make-perl?
[01:09] <RoAkSoAx> here we usually put the changes done before and that they remain and the new changes we've made
[01:09] <RoAkSoAx> we haven't made any new changes
[01:09] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, so add dpatch to build-depends and new standard-version ?
[01:09] <LaserJock> brica1: what kind of thing do you want to contribute?
[01:10] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, not really, because those changes were made in a previous Ubuntu version... check part of the log: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10366/
[01:10] <RoAkSoAx> in that log, in the merge done for hardy, specifies that tey added libxen3-dev  to build-depends
[01:10] <RoAkSoAx> so we havent really made a change, we just used the changes made by debian in the newer version and the changes made by ubuntu in the older versio
[01:11] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, ok
[01:11] <RoAkSoAx> and since in the changelog we put the changes made before+ changes made now... we just copy the changelog of the merge done for hardy
[01:12] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, lines for 32 to 34 in your last paste
[01:12] <RoAkSoAx> yep
[01:12] <RoAkSoAx> note here: virt-viewer (0.0.3-2ubuntu1) intrepid; urgency=low
[01:12] <RoAkSoAx> we have to change that hardy after the ) to intrepid
[01:12] <no0tic> yes.. I have hardy :)
[01:12] <RoAkSoAx> and verify if the ubuntu version is correct
[01:12] <no0tic> I was about to ask :)
[01:13] <brica1> LaserJock: I'm getting some warnings when using it, so i'd like to fix those. perhaps clean the code up where appropriate (i'm heavy into perl, check my cpan dir (cpanid: BRICAS))
[01:13] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, it doesn't matter, we are marging a package for intrepid, so change that to intrepid
[01:13] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, ok, done
[01:13] <RoAkSoAx> ok so we've done with the changes
[01:13] <RoAkSoAx> now we have to create the source package
[01:13] <RoAkSoAx> but before, do you have any questions or have u missunderstood something or is ther anuything you don't understand?
[01:14] <no0tic> I'm saving it in debian/changelog, ok
[01:14] <LaserJock> brica1: I think you're best off to talk with the Debian maintainer then. see http://packages.qa.debian.org/d/dh-make-perl.html
[01:14] <no0tic> no, I'm quite sure of what arewe doing :)
[01:14] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, does you chanelo added your name and email?
[01:15] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, yes, I modified it to the correct one
[01:15] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, and yes, I have a gpg key associated with it
[01:15] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, Gabriele Postorino <no0tic@ubuntu.com>
[01:15] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, ok, so to avoid modifying it by hand, we can do this in $home/.bashrc
[01:15] <RoAkSoAx> export DEBFULLNAME='Andres Rodriguez'
[01:15] <RoAkSoAx> export DEBEMAIL='andreserl@ubuntu-pe.org'
[01:15] <RoAkSoAx> export GPGKEY=F7B278D7
[01:16] <RoAkSoAx> i put that at the end of .bashrc
[01:16] <bricas> woops. got disconnected.
[01:16] <RoAkSoAx> so that when i do dch -e it will automatically change it
[01:17] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, do that and then: source $HOME/.bashrc to get the variables loaded (this is done just the first time we are adding them to the file cuz it will save us from rebooting)
[01:17] <bricas> LaserJock: sorry, i didn't catch anything after my last message
[01:17] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, already done :P
[01:18] <RoAkSoAx> ok cool, so we have to build the source
[01:18] <RoAkSoAx> for that we do: debuild -S
[01:18] <no0tic> -S is single binary, right?
[01:18] <no0tic> ah no, source package :)
[01:18] <RoAkSoAx> -S is source
[01:18] <RoAkSoAx> yep
[01:19] <RoAkSoAx> doing that will create ../virt-viewer_0.0.3-2ubuntu1.dsc
[01:19] <no0tic> done
[01:20] <RoAkSoAx> ok, so what we are supposed to do next is to create the debdiff and build the package to see it it builds ok.
[01:20] <RoAkSoAx> we will use the debdiff to updload it when we report the merge in LP
[01:21] <no0tic> right
[01:21] <LaserJock> brica1: I think you're best off to talk with the Debian maintainer then. see http://packages.qa.debian.org/d/dh-make-perl.html
[01:21] <RoAkSoAx> and we have to build the source package to make sure it will work....
[01:21] <RoAkSoAx> so for that we have to create a pbuilder environment but it will take long, so first we are going to create the debdiff
[01:22] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, I think I already have a pbuilder environment, for hardy
[01:22] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, let me see
[01:22] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, but since the merge is for intrepid, we need a pbuilder for intrepid
[01:23] <RoAkSoAx> that is why we changed our changelog from hardy to intrepid
[01:23] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, ahah, right :D
[01:23] <RoAkSoAx> so it doesn't really matter if we build the binary after we created the debdiff
[01:23] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, can we start the creation of the pbluider environment while we create the debdiff?
[01:24] <RoAkSoAx> yes
[01:24] <RoAkSoAx> sudo pbuilder create --distribution intrepid --othermirror "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid universe multiverse"
[01:24] <RoAkSoAx> so meanwhile... we can create the debdiff
[01:24] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, we do it like this: debdiff  virt-viewer_0.0.3-2.dsc virt-viewer_0.0.3-2ubuntu1.dsc >  virt-viewer_0.0.3-2ubuntu1.debdiff
[01:24] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, will 1GB be enough? :)
[01:25] <RoAkSoAx> RoAkSoAx, don't really know, i didn't give it size... it will install other 125MB of packages when trying to build
[01:25] <LaserJock> a pbuilder tarball is ~ 100MB
[01:25] <no0tic> ok
[01:25] <LaserJock> but when you're actually building you need enough space for it to unpack and build the package
[01:25] <no0tic> I'm buying a larger laptop disc during this week :)
[01:26] <LaserJock> i.e. you won't be building OpenOffice on there
[01:26] <RoAkSoAx> the thing is that we are only creating the pbuilder to see if the packages builds succesfully without errors
[01:26] <no0tic> LaserJock, I have enough space on another partition, not under / ...
[01:26] <bricas> LaserJock: okay. tanks!
[01:26] <bricas> urr thanks
[01:26] <LaserJock> no0tic: most packages should be fine
[01:26] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, ok, debdiff created
[01:26] <LaserJock> OpenOffice takes something like 4GB to build
[01:27] <no0tic> eheh
[01:27] <LaserJock> and something like 20hrs
[01:27] <LaserJock> so you don't want to do that anyway ;-)
[01:29] <LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: you gonna pastebin the debdiff?
[01:29] <no0tic> 109 lines.. :)
[01:29] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, so now we have to see if there are some things that need to be filtered from the debdiff, we do: lsdiff file.debdiff
[01:30] <RoAkSoAx> if there apperas some *.po files we should filter them
[01:30] <RoAkSoAx> but they don't
[01:30] <no0tic> the don't :)
[01:30] <no0tic> virt-viewer-0.0.3/debian/patches/01_ctrl-alt-f9.dpatch
[01:30] <RoAkSoAx> so our .debdiff is ready to be uploaded after we report the bug
[01:30] <no0tic> this is a change made in ubuntu, am I right?
[01:31] <RoAkSoAx> yeah we have to filter .po or .EX files, but they don't apper
[01:31] <no0tic> ok
[01:31] <RoAkSoAx> but, now we have to see if it builds without errors
[01:31] <no0tic> indeed
[01:31] <kirkland> zul: let me take a look
[01:31] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, I'll ping you when pbuilder environment is created
[01:31] <zul> kirkland: sure...im guessting the strotime patch did since its a new version but you should mention it in your changelog though
[01:32] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, ok so let's imagine that it builded succesfully we now have to report a but like mine: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virt-viewer/+bug/227073
[01:32] <RoAkSoAx> after reporting the bug you can attacht the debdiff
[01:33] <no0tic> k
[01:34] <RoAkSoAx> and wait for someone to review it.. then change status to confirmed and suscribe it to u-u-s
[01:35] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, you need to change it to confirmed?
[01:36] <LaserJock> I would leave it as New
[01:36] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, or who reviews it will do?
[01:36] <LaserJock> for a merge it doesn't really matter
[01:36] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, yeah if someone reviews it and says it is ok, you need to change status to confirmed and suscribes it to u-u-s
[01:36] <no0tic> u-u-s ? ubuntu-universe-s?
[01:36] <RoAkSoAx> sponsors
[01:36] <LaserJock> no0tic: those are the MOTUs who'll actually upload your package
[01:37] <RoAkSoAx> yep
[01:37] <no0tic> LaserJock, ok
[01:37] <no0tic> what groups do I need to join?
[01:37] <LaserJock> you don't need to join any particular one
[01:37] <no0tic> I only joined ubuntu-bugs
[01:37] <LaserJock> you are good to go right now
[01:38] <no0tic> ok
[01:38] <no0tic> LaserJock, mailing lists to subscribe to?
[01:38] <RoAkSoAx> -motu and -motu-mentors maybe
[01:38] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, im only suscribed to motu i think...
[01:39] <RoAkSoAx> and virt-viewer was my sencond merge
[01:39] <RoAkSoAx> xD
[01:39] <LaserJock> no0tic: and if you aren't already you should subscribe to ubuntu-devel-announce
[01:39] <LaserJock> and ubuntu-devel (or ubuntu-devel-discuss) if you want
[01:44] <kirkland> zul: does not look like the 64bit time patch made it upstream here
[01:44] <kirkland> zul: i mean, not into the 5.2.5 version
[01:45] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, thanks a lot
[01:45] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, no prob :)
[01:45] <no0tic> can I pick a package from the list?
[01:45] <no0tic> contact the previous uploader and start working?
[01:45] <LaserJock> no0tic: it's good to also first look on Launchpad to make sure there isn't already a merge/sync bug filed
[01:45] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, yeah pick a package that you like and if you are lucky you will have one that need changes in debian/control
[01:46] <no0tic> LaserJock, yes
[01:46] <RoAkSoAx> some packages are easier , some are harder
[01:51] <sommer> hey all, I'm trying to use a ppa in pbuilder, but for some reason its not using the packages
[01:51] <no0tic> ok, found a package
[01:51] <sommer> I copied my sources.list into /etc/pbuilder and did pbuilder --override-config
[01:51] <no0tic> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kid3 http://merges.ubuntu.com/k/kid3/REPORT
[01:52] <no0tic> no merge bugs in launchpad, should I contact previous uploader now?
[01:52] <sommer> just wondering if I've missing anything?
[01:53] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, if you wan't... you can contact him and ask him to help you with it if there is something you don't know how to do
[01:53] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, ok, I know him very well :)
[01:54] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, I saw kid3 in hardy is version 0.10 and in sid is 1.0 :)
[01:54] <RoAkSoAx> so go for it and try to merge it
[01:54] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, and there aren't any conflicts
[01:54] <RoAkSoAx> if there aren't conflics it may be a sync
[01:54] <cheatr> RoAkSoAx: I just wanted to thank you for this nice guide on how to merge packages. I've been silently watching and following along. I've just saved a copy of the chat transcript and I am about to attempt a merge on my own
[01:55] <kirkland> zul: okay, looks like i need to add a few things to the changelog
[01:56] <RoAkSoAx> cheatr, haha you are welcom, it was my second merge :D you can also check this done in the OpenWeek by nxvl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekhardy/PackageMerging
[01:57] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, if there aren't conflics might be a sync... which is much easier
[01:57] <LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: that's not really true
[01:57] <cheatr> RoAkSoAx: I actually read that earlier today. Personally, I think your informal guide was more beneficial for me. If you want, I can send you a cleaned up version of the transcript
[01:58] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, that is why i said *might* =)
[01:58] <LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: some merges will have no conflicts, and sometimes there will be a conflict we can drop and sync
[01:58] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, yep i know, we are supposed to check the changelog to see what changes have been made and stuff
[01:58] <no0tic> LaserJock, I go ahead, then
[01:58] <RoAkSoAx> cheatr, would be great :)
[01:59] <cheatr> RoAkSoAx: I'll remove everything except what you said. That way, it will be easier to read through it
[02:00] <RoAkSoAx> cheatr, if you wan't you can check my blog where i explain how i did a previous merge: http://roaksoax.wordpress.com/ (it is not yet well edited though)
[02:04] <cheatr> RoAkSoAx: After a quick look, the blog post looks like a nice guide. You might consider turning this into a wiki page on wiki.ubuntu.com
[02:05] <LaserJock> cheatr: we probably don't need another wiki page for it
[02:05] <LaserJock> but RoAkSoAx should look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging and see what could maybe be improved :-)
[02:06] <cheatr> LaserJock: In my opinion, you can never have too many guides. It doesn't need to replace the current /UbuntuDevelopment/Merging page, but just adding it to the wiki (so it can be found in a search) can't hurt
[02:06] <LaserJock> cheatr: yes, yes it can
[02:07] <sommer> nm, forgot the --othermirror option :)
[02:07] <LaserJock> we already have a rather large mess of wiki pages
[02:07] <cheatr> LaserJock: Ok, it's just my opinion. I'll just bookmark it
[02:07] <cheatr> Thanks again RoAkSoAx
[02:09] <LaserJock> yeah, that was a good tutorial, especially from somebody who just started
[02:09] <LaserJock> rock on RoAkSoAx
[02:12]  * no0tic claps his hands
[02:12] <LaserJock> hmm, this reminds me
[02:12] <LaserJock> we should do a MOTU School session on merging soon
[02:12] <ajmitch> LaserJock: reminds you that you've got a long list to get through?
[02:13] <LaserJock> pfft
[02:13] <no0tic> ok, now I have this package, kid3, it seems that any previous ubuntu change has been merged upstream and then in debian.. it is a sync, right?
[02:13] <nxvl> RoAkSoAx: only problem i see is that pastebin doesn't have you data forever
[02:13] <LaserJock> no0tic: yeah, you just want to make sure that it still builds
[02:14] <no0tic> oh, hi nxvl, I finished reading your class logs right now :)
[02:14] <nxvl> RoAkSoAx: best upload it in plain text to you server or paste it inthere
[02:14] <nxvl> no0tic: great!
[02:14] <crimsun> nxvl: you can on pastebin.ca.  We use it for ALSA debugging.
[02:14] <coppro> rafb.net
[02:14] <nxvl> no0tic: hope it helps
[02:14] <RoAkSoAx> nxvl, yeah i will
[02:15] <no0tic> LaserJock, I need pbuilder environment to do that, and it is still creating it :)
[02:15] <nxvl> crimsun: yes, but he has it as a link in a post
[02:15] <nxvl> crimsun: so it will not last forever
[02:15] <nxvl> crimsun: if you read it in 6 months
[02:15] <nxvl> you wont find the info
[02:15] <no0tic> nxvl, yes, I would really like to contribute in packaging :)
[02:15] <nxvl> need to run
[02:15] <nxvl> bbl
[02:15] <cheatr> The debian version added "Vcs-Svn", "Vcs-Browser", and "XS-DM-Upload-Alloed" to the control file. Are these allowed in Ubuntu? Also, is "Uploaders" allowed in Ubuntu?
[02:15] <no0tic> nooo
[02:15] <SEJEff_home> What is the proper way to go about a sync request for a package which has been packaged, but is waiting to be sponsored into Debian?
[02:15] <no0tic> pbuilder exited with an error, I'll paste it for you
[02:16] <crimsun> cheatr: they're all allowed (but not necessarily used)
[02:16] <RAOF> cheatr: In order: yes, yes, and 'allowed, but doesn't do anything'.
[02:16] <no0tic> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10370/
[02:16] <LaserJock> SEJEff_home: at this point, wait
[02:16] <cheatr> crimsun and RAOF: If they were added in Debian, should I leave them in when I merge the changes, or should I remove them?
[02:17] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, have you installed debootstrap?
[02:17] <crimsun> leave them.
[02:17] <cheatr> crimsun: ok, thanks
[02:17] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, no :P
[02:17] <RAOF> crimsun: What about the vcs tags?  If this is a merge, they're then wrong, right?
[02:17] <SEJEff_home> LaserJock, And if they don't make it into Debian intime before the merge freeze, doesn't that seem silly?
[02:17] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, uhm, yes it was, really
[02:17] <SEJEff_home> LaserJock, ^for Intrepid
[02:17]  * RAOF is obviously too tired to construct beautiful sentences.
[02:18] <crimsun> RAOF: only if they've been modified by Ubuntu.  I don't think Vcs-Svn would be an issue.
[02:18] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, it seems to be an error with libc6_2.7-10ubuntu3_i386.deb
[02:18] <LaserJock> SEJEff_home: you can't file a sync request for a package that's not in the Debian archive
[02:18] <RoAkSoAx> i believe someone earlier said something about that if that issue with libc6 was already fixed :
[02:18] <RoAkSoAx> :
[02:18] <RoAkSoAx> :S
[02:18] <bddebian> Heya gang
[02:19] <crimsun> 'lo barry
[02:19] <bddebian> Hi crimsun
[02:19] <LaserJock> SEJEff_home: what you could do is a "fake" sync where we just manually upload the package, but that's sort of a last-resort
[02:19] <SEJEff_home> LaserJock, So would be best plan of action be to upload a rebuild of the debian package to revu and just let the sync-monster overwrite it if it makes it to Debian?
[02:19] <SEJEff_home> Right
[02:19] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, so we need to wait someone to fix it?
[02:20] <RAOF> crimsun: What I meant was: aren't the vcs tags meant to indicate where the canonical source package is?  If this is a merge, then Debian vcs won't have the current Ubuntu package in it, or in its history.
[02:20] <SEJEff_home> LaserJock, Ok, so what would you suggest I do? Wait until close to the debian import freeze for Intrepid? Use your last resort in the last few weeks before that freeze if it isn't in Debian yet?
[02:20] <LaserJock> SEJEff_home: is this a whole new package or just an update?
[02:20] <SEJEff_home> LaserJock, New package
[02:20] <SEJEff_home> glusterfs
[02:20] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, i guess so.. try installing dpatch
[02:20] <LaserJock> SEJEff_home: then you have up until Feature Freeze
[02:21] <no0tic> error changed http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10371/
[02:21] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, dpatch is installed
[02:21] <SEJEff_home> LaserJock, So we've got plenty of time. Great
[02:21] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, i had a similar issue and i installed debootstrap and dpatch and problem solved :S
[02:21] <LaserJock> RAOF: it is still the VCS source
[02:21] <LaserJock> basically regardless of what we've done to it
[02:22] <LaserJock> so you wouldn't want to remove the vcs bits
[02:22] <LaserJock> so unless we have something to replace them with they should stay as-is
[02:23] <RAOF> LaserJock: Cool.  I'll try to squirrel that away.
[02:23] <mathiaz> LaserJock: the VCS field should be renamed to XS-Original-VCS
[02:23] <LaserJock> mathiaz: if we replace it
[02:23] <mathiaz> LaserJock: if we merge it from debian, we should replace it.
[02:23] <mathiaz> LaserJock: the VCS for the ubuntu package is not in debian.
[02:23] <LaserJock> mathiaz: most packages don't have Ubuntu vcs
[02:24] <mathiaz> LaserJock: correct - thus rename if to XS-Original-VCS
[02:24] <mathiaz> LaserJock: without replacing it
[02:24] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, was that error showed while your were creating the pbuilder environment for intrepid?
[02:24] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, yes!
[02:25] <LaserJock> are you saying to us XS-Original-VCS even if we don't have aVCS_ to replace it?
[02:25] <LaserJock> *use
[02:25] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, yeah so i guess there is a prob with libc6... i saw someone asking about it earlier
[02:25] <mathiaz> LaserJock: yes - that's what I was told by soren
[02:25] <RAOF> mathiaz: With the idea being that vcs-* should appear if and only if the source package in Ubuntu is contained within the revision history of the vcs?
[02:25] <LaserJock> mathiaz: that may work in Main, but it's not policy
[02:25] <LaserJock> and I'm not sure we'll be doing it in Universe in the near future
[02:26] <crimsun> is this documented somewhere?
[02:26] <mathiaz> crimsun: not that I know of :D
[02:26] <ajmitch> yay
[02:27] <mathiaz> so you may wanna confirm the usage of it
[02:27] <bddebian> Documentation is for ponies
[02:27] <mathiaz> but that's what soren told me when he reviewed a mysql merge
[02:27] <LaserJock> I'm guessing that's a sorenism ;-)
[02:28] <RAOF> Ponies are love!
[02:28] <mathiaz> LaserJock: he didn't decide it on his own - there was a discussion (somewhere, sometime) and that was the outcome
[02:28] <LaserJock> not a MOTU discussion
[02:29] <mathiaz> LaserJock: probably not.
[02:29] <LaserJock> anyway, not terribly important
[02:29] <mathiaz> LaserJock: I wasn't aware of that change until soren told me
[02:29] <ajmitch> an outcome that hasn't been communicated down to the serfs in the field?
[02:29] <mathiaz> LaserJock: agreed.
[02:29] <no0tic> hey effie_jayx :)
[02:29] <LaserJock> maybe something we should take up though at a MOTU Meeting
[02:30] <mathiaz> ajmitch: apparently :D
[02:30] <LaserJock> I understand how it'd work if there was actually something to replace the existing Debian VCS field
[02:30] <ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=XS-Original-VCS&fullsearch=Text
[02:30] <LaserJock> but very few Universe packages use VCSs for maintainence
[02:30] <ajmitch> not on the wiki, at least :)
[02:31] <bddebian> *cough* thank god *cough&
[02:31] <ajmitch> someone needs to hunt it down so that it can be clarified
[02:31]  * ajmitch appoints bddebian 
[02:31] <LaserJock> ah, I found it on -devel
[02:31] <mathiaz> ajmitch: yeah - but as LaserJock pointed out, it's a minor thing - the world won't fall apart if you don't do it.
[02:32] <LaserJock> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-March/023332.html
[02:32] <ajmitch> mathiaz: I know, but it's useful to have for consistency
[02:32] <ajmitch> so that people don't end up confused by others telling them 2 or 3 different things
[02:33] <effie_jayx> no0tic,  hey dude
[02:34] <mathiaz> ajmitch: right
[02:34] <mathiaz> LaserJock: so it seems that the proper usage is to rename the VCS tags to XS-Debian-VCS
[02:35] <LaserJock> *if* we are replacing it with an Ubuntu VCS
[02:36] <crimsun> err, wait, not XS-Original-VCS?
[02:36] <LaserJock> crimsun: colin argued "what happens for Ubuntu derivatives?"
[02:36] <jdong> hah XS-Original-VCS? :)
[02:36] <jdong> that sounds a bit silly
[02:36] <mathiaz> crimsun: according to the thread not - but the outcome wasn't a definitive answer
[02:37] <LaserJock> so derivative would be able to have a XS-Debian-VCS and a XS-Ubuntu-VCS
[02:37] <ScottK> LaserJock: That's a problem for Ubuntu derivatives to worry about.
[02:37] <LaserJock> how fun would that be?
[02:38] <crimsun> LaserJock: right, and the ambiguity remains.
[02:38] <LaserJock> well, XS-Original-* is pretty confusing, IMO
[02:38] <ScottK> Personally I view the VCS header as a place to look for possible bug fixes.  I don't care how far up the food chain it is.
[02:38] <LaserJock> you don't really know what "Original" is
[02:39] <LaserJock> ScottK: but how would you add a second layer?
[02:39] <LaserJock> a XS-Original-Original-VCS? :-)
[02:39] <ScottK> LaserJock: Why does there have to be just one?
[02:39] <LaserJock> I wasn't saying that
[02:39] <LaserJock> I was saying:
[02:40] <LaserJock> Debian -> XS-Original-Original-VCS
[02:40] <LaserJock> Ubuntu -> XS-Original-VCS
[02:40] <crimsun> we need it written up formally and definitively.
[02:40] <ScottK> I guess I don't see why one would bother to change it.
[02:40] <RAOF> ScottK: Wheras I think of it somewhat the other way 'round; the VCS is the place to checkout to apply fixes to :)
[02:40] <ScottK> RAOF: Only if you have access to the VCS, in which case you already know where it is.
[02:40] <mathiaz> LaserJock: I don't think the lineage of the VCS has to be kept
[02:41] <LaserJock> mathiaz: why not?
[02:41] <RAOF> ScottK: Well, no.  To diff against to make the patch I send upstream easier to apply.
[02:41] <ScottK> Ah.  I see.
[02:41] <mathiaz> ScottK: the idea of the VCS field is to be able to check out from the vcs when apt-get source pkg
[02:41] <LaserJock> I think that's a terrible idea
[02:41] <ScottK> mathiaz: That sounds completely wrong tome.
[02:41] <ScottK> apt-get source should get the source from a repository.
[02:42] <LaserJock> until we go No-More-Source-Packages I think apt-get source should get *the* source package
[02:42] <ScottK> mathiaz: We went through this once already when mvo added a big warning with a confirmation box if there were VCS headers.
[02:42] <ScottK> mathiaz: After discussion he reverted the warning and made it the notice we have now.
[02:42] <ScottK> Let's not do this again.
[02:43] <ScottK> apt-get source is to get source packages.
[02:43] <ScottK> Period.  Full stop.  Nothing else.
[02:43] <mathiaz> LaserJock: yes - until we go No-More-Source-Packages
[02:43] <LaserJock> though I do like it telling me a VCS exists
[02:43] <ScottK> mathiaz: When is that?
[02:43] <ScottK> LaserJock: Agreed.  I think the current notice is completely appropriate.
[02:44] <mathiaz> ScottK: I have no clue
[02:44] <SEJEff_home> Seems like basing off of debian would be difficult then
[02:44] <LaserJock> not too horrible
[02:44] <LaserJock> just extract the source packages into VCS
[02:44] <ScottK> mathiaz: I think we should follow Debian in such major package management changes and so there's no great need for Ubuntu to solve it.
[02:44] <ScottK> YokoZar: Did you see Debian Bug #479659?
[02:45] <LaserJock> well, *just* in a probably highly fragile way
[02:46] <ScottK> Until someone can make a VCS that will scale to manage 20,000 packages, I think we are going to use source packages in some form.
[02:46] <LaserJock> ScottK: there's also a huge barrier, IMO, of what to do with the .orig.tar.gz
[02:47] <ScottK> LaserJock: That too.
[02:47] <LaserJock> for packages where a patch system is used you'd most likely want the entire source in VCS
[02:47] <SEJEff_home> ScottK, besides the obvious love for bzr, git wouldn't even try that hard to manage 20k packages
[02:47] <ajmitch> ScottK: I was just about to ping YokoZar about that... :)
[02:48] <ScottK> SEJEff_home: So far I'm still learning git.  I takes me about a century to get a single debian dir out of LP using bzr.
[02:49] <SEJEff_home> ScottK, bzr is the perfect vcs for someone used to svn. Nothing, not even mercurial, is as user friendly. But for raw performance and space, git wins just about every time
[02:50] <LaserJock> I just keep learning both
[02:50] <ScottK> SEJEff_home: For stuff like Debian packaging where merge conflicts are rare, I think svn is perfect for someone used to svn.  So far I'm still declining to try and learn yet another VCS that I run into nowhere outside Ubuntu.
[02:50] <LaserJock> since there's no VCS to rule them all I just learn the basics of most of the common ones
[02:50] <ScottK> In Debian Python Modules Team we manage over 200 packages with svn and it works quite well.
[02:51] <cheatr> Could someone look over this debdiff for a merge that I made: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10376/
[02:51] <StevenK> ScottK: Personally, I found my SVN knowledge just snapped into using bzr.
[02:51] <ScottK> StevenK: You're younger than I am.  Your brain isn't so full yet.
[02:51] <StevenK> ScottK: Add a few extra commands, like init, bind, uncommit and shelve, and you're done.
[02:52] <LaserJock> you can use basically the same commands
[02:52] <ScottK> When I tried it in combination with LP, it was so stunningly slow that I fled in horror.
[02:52] <StevenK> ScottK: Seriously, install bzrtools and run 'bzr shelve --help'
[02:52] <StevenK> ScottK: And what format was the repository in?
[02:52] <ScottK> StevenK: Whatever LP does.  Dunno.
[02:52] <sommer> ls
[02:52] <LaserJock> that's been my only real problem with bzr
[02:52] <sommer> woops
[02:52] <StevenK> ScottK: bzr info will tell you. svn info does the same, too...
[02:52] <LaserJock> they are constantly changing formats and things
[02:53] <ScottK> The Kubuntu team tried to keep all the core KDE packages in bzr during (IIRC Gutsy) and it just wasn't workable.
[02:53] <LaserJock> there have been a lot of speed improvements
[02:54] <LaserJock> it's workable for most bzr branches on LP
[02:54] <nixternal> speed improvements?
[02:54] <nixternal> Bzr is great locally, but using any of the bzr repos in LP take me 2 days to co, even using --lightweight
[02:54] <ScottK> I checked one of the packages out late in the Hardy cycle just to make sure nothing had been missed and if that's faster, it's still really slow.
[02:54] <LaserJock> nixternal: that's just because of the branches you work on
[02:54] <nixternal> I can grab KDE trunk in less time than I can the hardy doc branch from LP
[02:54] <persia> cheatr: It's generally better to point to diffs attached to a bug,  Also, for merges, we tend to take the Debian .po files, unless there is a strong reason not to do so.
[02:55] <StevenK> ScottK: Does it use packs? Try to upgrade the repository to using packs
[02:55] <ScottK> StevenK:
[02:55] <ScottK> StevenK: I think you're assuming I care more than I actually do.
[02:55] <nixternal> effie_jayx: you around at all? msg me when you get a chance
[02:55] <StevenK> ScottK: If you don't want to investigate and possibly change your viewpoint, why are you complaining?
[02:56] <LaserJock> because we were talking about reasons not to switch from source packages to bzr branches
[02:56]  * ajmitch has generally seen poor lp+bzr performance when it's checked out via http:// urls
[02:56] <nixternal> we use Bzr on a few local projects, and it is great...but it depends on the type of config your branch has...the new stuff is notably quicker
[02:56] <sommer> frog70
[02:56] <ScottK> StevenK: It's bzr on one end and LP on the other.  If the LP setup is broken, there are people paid to worry about that.  If it's bzr that's broken, well that's a good reason for me not to worry about it.  Either way, I'm not motivated.
[02:57] <ajmitch> sommer: change that password now :)
[02:57] <LaserJock> sommer: dude, you need to check which terminal you're in
[02:57] <LaserJock> :-)
[02:57] <sommer> heh, almost time for bed
[02:57] <ScottK> nixternal: You might want to look at the Kubuntu bzr repo then and see if it can be made better.
[02:57] <persia> sommer: Still, about 150 seconds before that goes out on public http, never mind the IRC disclosure...
[02:57] <RAOF> ajmitch: http won't use the smart server IIUC, which will will make it slower (at least after the initial branch).
[02:57] <sommer> ScottK: I've got a patch for python-clamav that I think will work for 0.93
[02:57] <ajmitch> RAOF: yep
[02:58] <nixternal> ScottK: it can, the repo was created with the old formats, that's why it is god awful slow
[02:58] <nixternal> if you check the website repo, it is considerably faster
[02:58]  * ajmitch should try & catch up with a few of the lp-bzr people sometime 
[02:58] <ScottK> sommer: Great.  You have upload rights for the PPA.
[02:58]  * RAOF is helped in that his bzr-lp integration friend has recently moved to Sydney :)
[02:58] <ajmitch> RAOF: yeah, and is in dunedin this week :)
[02:59] <sommer> ScottK: I wasn't sure how to apply the patch, and since it's only one line I just changed the source
[02:59] <ScottK> sommer: For a test that's fine.
[02:59] <sommer> ScottK: but I noticed the hardy pyclamav is 0.3.1, and the latest is 0.4.1... is it possible to backport python-clamav?
[03:00] <RAOF> ajmitch: Crash the sprint!
[03:00] <LaserJock> it seems quite easy to shoot yourself in the foot with git
[03:00] <ScottK> sommer: That's Gutsy, not Hardy.
[03:00] <ajmitch> RAOF: it's only about 5 minutes walk from here, too
[03:00] <ajmitch> though they might not appreciate it :)
[03:00] <LaserJock> but then bzr is always changing and every time I go to do anything non-trivial I have to spend an evening in #bzr :-)
[03:00] <SEJEff_home> LaserJock, How so? And does bzr have anything close to git rebase?
[03:00] <sommer> ScottK: actually if you check the version in pyclamav.c it's 0.3.1 on hardy as well
[03:01] <LaserJock> SEJEff_home: well, part of it is the difficult UI, I just start doing things hoping they do what I want
[03:01] <LaserJock> SEJEff_home: or they behaving in unexpected ways and I lose everything :_0
[03:01] <LaserJock> :-) rather
[03:01] <RAOF> ajmitch: Bring your wireless with you; they're having irc connection problems :)
[03:01] <ScottK> sommer: Maybe upstream didn't change it or something.  The package version is 0.4.0
[03:02] <ajmitch> RAOF: yeah I've seen
[03:02] <RAOF> SEJEff_home: There's a bzr-rebase (and bzr-bisect) plugin.
[03:02] <sommer> ScottK: ah gotcha, well either way I'll test and upload if it works
[03:02] <SEJEff_home> LaserJock, http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/tag/easy-git/ eg is basicly a really nice way to learn all of the proper git commands because git's documentation blows
[03:02] <ajmitch> jml: no time for WoW this week, I imagine? :)
[03:02] <LaserJock> SEJEff_home: yeah, I'm kinda used to it now
[03:02] <SEJEff_home> RAOF, Oh fantastic, thanks
[03:02] <LaserJock> but I'm still afraid of it
[03:03] <LaserJock> as I understand it though, the use of git-rebase is not encouraged
[03:03] <RAOF> LaserJock: That's because it's _crazy_.  Who knows what it might do?!
[03:04] <SEJEff_home> LaserJock, git rebase is only evil when your repository is public. If someone pulls your repo, you rebase it, and they pull it again things get all strange when they have local mods
[03:04] <LaserJock> actually, I mostly go with whatever DVCS will work well with CVS and SVN
[03:04] <LaserJock> most of the repos I actually use are CVS or SVN
[03:04] <SEJEff_home> So use svk :)
[03:04] <ScottK> sommer: According to upstream, 0.4.1 works with clamav 0.93, so maybe we just need the new version (.1)
[03:05] <LaserJock> SEJEff_home: no thanks
[03:05] <LaserJock> right now I use bzr for svn and git for CVS
[03:05] <sommer> ScottK: yep, I tried the other day and it worked fine... the diff from 0.4.1 and the hardy version is just one line being removed
[03:05] <ScottK> Ah.
[03:06] <ScottK> sommer: OK.  Why don't you upload that and I'll work with Debian to get is uploaded there and we can sync.
[03:06] <SEJEff_home> LaserJock, Yeah that would be a bit strange
[03:06] <LaserJock> SEJEff_home: yeah? it works pretty well
[03:06] <sommer> ScottK: sounds good, thanks
[03:07] <SEJEff_home> LaserJock, Just switching between the two
[03:07] <LaserJock> SEJEff_home: why not?
[03:07] <RAOF> Some of my problems with git are just that I'm familiar with a different workflow; others seem more fundamental (why make it easy to change the revision history?)
[03:07] <LaserJock> I've yet to see where I can do much FLOSS work without using multiple VCSs
[03:07] <SEJEff_home> LaserJock, It probably works great, I just meant it would be difficult to do. bzr does svn interop really well
[03:07] <SEJEff_home> Difficult to switch between the two
[03:08] <LaserJock> if bzr had decent CVS interop I'd just use it
[03:08] <ScottK> sommer: I just suggested to the Debian Maintainer I'd be glad to NMU his package if he didn't have time to update it.
[03:08] <LaserJock> as I don't use git other than with CVS
[03:08] <LaserJock> but I do use bzr
[03:09] <LaserJock> I guess I'm in the opposite situation as ScottK
[03:09] <sommer> ScottK: cool, configuring dput now :)
[03:09] <ScottK> Yeah.  For me bzr's goodness or badness is entirely secondary to the fact that I run into it no where else.
[03:11] <LaserJock> yeah, I use bzr for more things that git
[03:11] <LaserJock> although there are an awful lot of git repos these days
[03:12]  * Hobbsee is thinking of using git for some of her stuff
[03:13] <LaserJock> for me it kinda comes down to if you like your branches in directories or not
[03:17]  * StevenK *still* can't get his head around git
[03:17] <StevenK> Either it's too complicated, or I'm too dumb. Or both.
[03:18] <LaserJock> to me its like a VCS programmers VCS
[03:18] <LaserJock> I have no clue what the documentation is saying most of the time
[03:18] <LaserJock> and I don't think most users care
[03:18] <RAOF> Yeah; and some of the default behaviours seem insane to me.
[03:19] <SEJEff_home> It was designed to handle very large repositories with thousands and thousands of files well. Do you know of any vcs that does it better?
[03:19] <SEJEff_home> Of course it has warts, all software does
[03:20] <LaserJock> well, "better" is a bit subjective in a way
[03:20] <RAOF> SEJEff_home: Which is entirely orthogonal to 'default UI has crazy behaviour'.
[03:20] <LaserJock> if you mean faster and things like that, then yes
[03:20] <SEJEff_home> RAOF, Not really when you consider the guy who developed it doesn't do much ui kind of work
[03:20] <LaserJock> but it's also very fast at messing me up too
[03:20] <SEJEff_home> RAOF, But you are right
[03:20] <LaserJock> so I'm not sure I'd consider it necessarily "better"
[03:21] <SEJEff_home> So how well would bzr do with the linux kernel source? Probably not so much
[03:21] <RAOF> And some of the default behaviours seem *designed* to mess you up; 'git revert' is my current favourite.
[03:21] <SEJEff_home> At the same time, bzr is a more accessible vcs because you can pick it up and run with it in a few minutes
[03:21] <LaserJock> yep
[03:21] <LaserJock> at this point I have a hard time saying "better" with much of any VCS but CVS
[03:22] <SEJEff_home> They both have valid uses. It is a matter of prefernces
[03:22] <LaserJock> more like "different"
[03:22] <RAOF> I wonder how bzr _would_ do with the kernel source.
[03:22] <SEJEff_home> RAOF, Why don't you benchmark it
[03:22] <RAOF> I might, on a lazy afternoon.
[03:22] <persia> LaserJock: Try RCS
[03:22] <LaserJock> I don't think it would necessarily fair too bad except for things like initial branching speed
[03:23] <LaserJock> persia: I thought you might say that
[03:23] <LaserJock> I wasn't putting RCS in my VCS list ;-)
[03:23] <LaserJock> svn can really kick butt
[03:23] <LaserJock> CVS I just can't get
[03:24] <LaserJock> persia: I use RCS at school
[03:24] <LaserJock> although I basically just don't use it
[03:25] <LaserJock> I just leave stuff checked out
[03:25] <LaserJock> bbl
[03:30] <SEJEff_home> RAOF, So when you have a lazy afternoon, you might copy this page: http://git.or.cz/gitwiki/GitBenchmarks
[03:48] <ScottK> sommer: Congratulations.  It built.
[03:49] <ScottK> sommer: Do you want to prepare an NMU for Debian?  If not, I will.
[03:53] <effie_jayx> nixternal, ping
[03:54] <sommer> ScottK: sweet!, sure I can, but I don't have a singed gpgkey yet
[03:55] <ScottK> sommer: You don't need that to get an NMU sponsored.
[03:56] <sommer> ScottK: ah just wondering, because I just revoked the original I uploaded to LP
[03:56] <ScottK> So how did you manage to upload to the PPA then?
[03:56] <sommer> ScottK: so what's the NMU process?
[03:57] <sommer> ScottK: revoked it after uploading
[03:57] <sommer> ScottK: new key is uploaded already... hope to get it signed at UDS :)
[03:58] <ScottK> I see.
[03:58] <ScottK> OK.
[03:59] <ScottK> I'm looking for a current HOW TO.
[04:00] <ScottK> sommer: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/developers-reference/ch-pkgs.en.html#s-nmu
[04:01] <ScottK> sommer: My recommendation is that you package the new version for the NMU, not patch their current one.
[04:01] <sommer> ScottK: cool, I'll read through it... thanks for the link
[04:01] <sommer> I concur, I'll use the current version
[04:02] <ScottK> sommer: I can help you get it sponsored when you have it prepared.
[04:02] <sommer> ScottK: sounds good, I'll ping you when ready
[04:07] <RoAkSoAx> sommer, you applying for ubuntu membership aswell right?
[04:08] <sommer> RoAkSoAx: yeppers, but with the new process it's kind of in a holding pattern
[04:08] <RoAkSoAx> sommer, yeah, but they already did the wiki pages: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
[04:08] <RoAkSoAx> so i gues have to remove ourselves from the CCAgenda and add us to that new wiki page
[04:09] <sommer> ooohhh, checking
[04:09] <ScottK> sommer: You've done enough for MOTU, I think you could definitely apply to but a Universe Contributor.
[04:09] <persia> It might still be a bit before it's all organised, but it doesn't hurt to change your queue
[04:10] <sommer> ScottK: really, I figured I had a ways to go before MOTU
[04:10] <persia> Yes.  The Universe Contributors model is more mature than the Regional Membership Boards at the current time.
[04:11] <ScottK> sommer: Universe Contributors is a way to get Ubuntu Member via MOTU Council.  Different than getting MOTU.
[04:11] <sommer> ah, cool that sounds good
[04:12] <ScottK> persia: Where on the wiki did the Universe Contributor stuff land?
[04:12] <persia> sommer: Take a look at the Contributing Developers section of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
[04:12] <sommer> persia: ah, thanks for the link... checking
[04:12] <persia> ScottK: Only as a side note on the UbuntuDevelopers page.  It would benefit from someone wanting to document identity, and building a real team page.
[04:13] <ScottK> sommer:^^^ Maybe you could work on a wiki page for it while you work on your applicaiton?
[04:14] <sommer> ScottK: sure I'll take a crack at it
[04:56]  * ScottK 's score for the first round of merges: 14 syncs, 2 merges done, 2 merges to do, 1 more to try to get fixes into Debian.
[04:57] <nixternal> groovy
[04:57]  * nixternal hugs ScottK 
[04:57] <Hobbsee> tasty.
[04:57] <ScottK> That's better than my ratio at the start of the Hardy cycle.
[04:57]  * nixternal double checks that he is on the sponsors team - haven't seen any request emails
[04:57] <nixternal> ScottK: at the beginning of the Hardy cycle you were quitting :p
[04:57] <nixternal> or slowing down rather
[04:57] <ScottK> nixternal: I still did my merges
[04:58] <nixternal> I still have a bum pbuilder
[04:58] <ScottK> The point is not leaving them as merges, but getting them back to syncs.
[04:58] <ScottK> nixternal: What's the error?
[04:58] <nixternal> libc6 still
[04:59] <ScottK> Oh.  Not this one: http://www.bebt.de/blog/debian/archives/2008/05/02/T07_25_25/index.html
[04:59] <ScottK> I didn't get the libc6 one.
[04:59] <nixternal> I can't even create my pbuilder
[05:00] <LaserJock> ScottK: I got that one when dist-upgrading a hardy chroot
[05:00] <ScottK> nixternal: Can you dist-upgrade your hardy pbuilder?
[05:00] <nixternal> W: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/intrepid/main/binary-i386/Packages.bz2 was corrupt
[05:00] <ScottK> LaserJock: The fix in that blog post works.
[05:00] <nixternal> gahahahaha
[05:01] <nixternal> ScottK: I am creating a new pbuilder for intrepid
[05:01] <nixternal> keeping hardy, gutsy, and feisty
[05:01] <ScottK> nixternal: dist-upgrade your hardy one and then make a new hardy one.
[05:02] <nixternal> I can give that a shot, but have to wait until Packages.bz2 isn't corrupt now
[05:02] <ScottK> K.
[05:31] <tbielawa> evening, all
[05:33] <ScottK> Good evening tbielawa.
[05:34]  * nxvl HUGS everyone without a reason
[05:34] <nxvl> :D
[05:35] <ScottK> nxvl: I'm marking you down as looking after tiny-erp-server.  OK?
[05:35]  * tbielawa notices how ScottK totally avoided that one
[05:36] <nxvl> ScottK: huh?
[05:36] <ScottK> nxvl: Weren't you reporting our changes to Debian on that one?
[05:37] <nxvl> oh
[05:37] <nxvl> yes
[05:38] <ScottK> If you're motivated you might look at poker-network and see if the db-common predepends is really needed.  If it's not, I think we can sync that one.
[05:39] <ajmitch> pre-depends is fairly unusual
[05:39] <ScottK> Agreed.
[05:40] <nxvl> ScottK: no news on bts report
[05:40] <ScottK> It seemed to solve a problem a year ago.  I'm really not sure it's needed, but don't really know enough about it to know for sure.
[05:40] <nxvl> i will ping the DD tomorrow
[05:40] <ScottK> nxvl: Patience.
[05:40] <ajmitch> was there a bug report about it?
[05:40] <ScottK> nxvl: Pinging to much can be counter productive.
[05:40] <nxvl> i haven't ping him
[05:40] <ScottK> ajmitch: IIRC there was, but it's been a while.  Let me look.
[05:40] <nxvl> at all
[05:40] <ScottK> nxvl: You submitted the bug, right?
[05:40] <nxvl> well, if we are counting it a ping
[05:41] <nxvl> then you are right
[05:41] <ScottK> Maintainer's get bugmail on their packages.
[05:41] <ScottK> So that counts.
[05:41] <ScottK> nxvl: It's no rush.  At this point worry more about the relationship with Debian than getting the fix in.
[05:41] <nxvl> yep
[05:42] <nxvl> that's why i try to ping them personally in this kind of thing
[05:42] <nxvl> so i can make a friendship with them
[05:42] <nxvl> meet them
[05:42] <ScottK> nxvl: I'd say not pinging at all for a couple of weeks is better.
[05:42] <nxvl> and know they point of view
[05:43] <nxvl> ScottK: yep, it's alos a good idea
[05:43] <nxvl> ScottK: i use to do this way when i'm patching a bug, so i know their opinion about the patch i'm going to use
[05:43] <ScottK> OK.
[05:43] <ScottK> Your call.  I tend to let the bugs ripen for a while.
[05:44] <nxvl> but at this point of the RC it's better to keep working and ping them when we are reaching the DIF
[05:44] <nxvl> well
[05:44] <nxvl> i need to run
[05:44] <nxvl> is quite late in here
[05:44] <ajmitch> bug 138836
[05:45] <nxvl> and tomorrow is my first day at PWC
[05:46] <ScottK> ajmitch: It was Bug #138836
[05:46] <ajmitch> yes, as I just said 2 minutes ago :)
[05:48] <ScottK> Ah.  Yes.  Sorry about that. Missed you put that up.
[05:56] <ajmitch> ScottK: fwiw, I don't see where dbconfig-common is used in the preinst
[05:56] <ScottK> ajmitch: Thanks.
[05:56] <ScottK> It's about 1am here, so I think I'll go to bed and worry about it some other time when I'm not so tired.
[05:58] <RoAkSoAx> does anyone has this error when trying to create a pbuilder environment? W: Failure trying to run: chroot /var/cache/pbuilder/build/30042/. dpkg --force-depends --install var/cache/apt/archives/libc6_2.7-10ubuntu3_amd64.deb
[05:58] <ajmitch> from earlier reports, yes other have had that problem
[05:59] <tbielawa> yeah
[05:59] <tbielawa> You're making intrepid or sid right
[06:00] <RoAkSoAx> intrepid
[06:00] <tbielawa> :(
[06:00] <RoAkSoAx> anyone know how to fix it? or what to do instead?
[06:04] <persia> RoAkSoAx: You could chroot into your chroot directly, and try to resolve the issues.  Aside from that, wait for updates to the packages...
[06:05] <RoAkSoAx> ok thanks persia :)
[06:06] <tbielawa> I haven't had any luck with that method. I hope you have more success than I do
[06:12] <RoAkSoAx> i guess i'll wait for the updates
[06:55] <dholbach> good morning
[07:01] <RAOF> Oh no!  It's morning for dholbach.  The end of the day approaches :)
[07:01] <RAOF> dholbach: Good afternoon ;)
[07:01] <tbielawa> good 2am all!
[07:01] <dholbach> hiya RAOF, hi tbielawa
[07:01] <dholbach> how are you guys doing? :)
[07:02] <tbielawa> Alls well on the eastern coast
[07:02] <tbielawa> Failed at getting ubuntu on a friends laptop last night though. The laptop would not change what it booted from for the life of it.
[07:03] <nixternal> mornin' dholbach
[07:03] <dholbach> hiya nixternal
[07:04] <TheMuso> tbf: If it had windows on it, you could have used the boot helper program that launches when you insert the CD.
[07:04] <TheMuso> gah
[07:04] <TheMuso> tbielawa: ^^
[07:04] <tbielawa> lol
[07:04] <tbielawa> wubi gave me the impression it was going to do a regular reboot to do a full install
[07:05] <TheMuso> tbielawa: Wubi installs onto the windows partition. You can either use wubi to do that, or use umenu I think its called to allow the booting of the CD.
[07:05] <tbielawa> See, the thing is
[07:05] <nixternal> man, you have no clue how many people at our university is giving Ubuntu/Kubuntu a shot now due to Wubi...it is insane
[07:06] <tbielawa> internal optical drive would get read errors as it read more of the disk. ide=nodma helped us get to a gui but it never loaded beyond an orange background
[07:06] <TheMuso> tbielawa: SOunds like the drive needs a clean.
[07:06] <tbielawa> we thought itw as being slow with the nodma and all, about 20 minutes passed...so I droped into a tty and saw it vomiting all over :(
[07:06] <tbf> TheMuso: heh :-)
[07:07] <tbielawa> that along with restabalized, you could head the sides of the disk spinning on the tray :'(
[07:07] <tbielawa> I'd have netbooted it if we had a router!
[07:07] <TheMuso> tbielawa: Ouch.
[07:07] <TheMuso> nixternal: Thats awesome.
[07:07] <tbf> wubi is possible, it gives more people access to ubuntu - so it is a good thing.
[07:08] <tbielawa> nixternal: sexy!
[07:08] <nixternal> you haven't seen me with my shirt off, so careful with the sexy there :p
[07:08] <tbielawa> :-o
[07:08] <nixternal> I am dead sexy with my clothes on
[07:08] <StevenK> And the lights dimmed?
[07:08] <tbielawa> :)
[07:09] <nixternal> shit, the lights wouldn't even help
[07:09] <nixternal> err, I mean shoot
[07:09] <StevenK> Haha
[07:09] <tbielawa> lets not go there, ububot might have to censor this
[07:09] <TheMuso> lol
[07:09] <jdong> don't worry the new bot is not very good at this ;-)
[07:09] <tbielawa> !taunt
[07:09] <tbielawa> dang
[07:10] <jdong> !was found but
[07:10] <tbielawa> lol
[07:10] <tbielawa> !ubottu
[07:10] <jdong> hehe
[07:10] <tbielawa> it's lost!
[07:13] <persia> It may also have channel-specific factoids
[07:13] <tbielawa> !motu
[07:13] <nixternal> %editors
[07:13] <tbielawa> !help
[07:14] <nixternal> nope, damn bots
[07:14] <dholbach> hi persia
[07:15] <persia> Hey dholbach
[07:15]  * RoAkSoAx by all
[07:24] <nixternal> don't everyone work to hard while I am asleep, please leave some work for me! kthxbye :)
[07:24] <nixternal> g'nite
[07:26] <tbielawa> bai2u
[08:05] <\sh> what was the magic to reconfigure passwd to enable non-root again?
[08:05] <\sh> dpkg-reconfigure passwd or something?
[08:10] <\sh> passwd -l root  does what I wanted...no need to think complicated
[08:16] <nicolasvw> What would be the best way to upgrade a package in ubuntu which is orphaned in debian, package it for unstable and wait for autosync or directly package it for intrepid?
[08:17] <StevenK> nicolasvw: If you package it for Debian and wait for the autosync, you benefit both Debian and Ubuntu.
[08:19] <nicolasvw> StevenK: Thankx, that's the way I'll go then ;)
[08:23] <RAOF> Gah, time to write a RFS, I suppose.
[08:23] <RAOF> Unless you'd like to sponsor stuff, StevenK ;)
[08:29] <superm1> bah is refit in main for Intrepid?
[08:29] <superm1> it's in universe for hardy..
[08:30] <superm1> that's weird, no its not
[08:30] <persia> superm1: rmadison is your friend, and the current source is in main, with binary in universe.
[08:30] <superm1> that's what got me confused
[08:30] <superm1> i see
[08:30] <superm1> looks like i gotta find a sponsor then :S
[08:31] <persia> superm1: Blame gptsync-udeb
[08:31] <superm1> yeah i see that now.  silly udebs
[08:32] <superm1> maybe i'll just get it updated in debian instead then
[08:32] <persia> It's choice of sponsors, but if it's a good fix, that's likely better.
[08:32] <superm1> yeah, the maintainer hasn't touched it since 2006
[08:32] <superm1> so hopefully he's responsive to e-mail
[09:20] <\sh> does anyone know which ports freenode supports (other ports then 6667?)
[09:20] <tbielawa> here's what scrolled across when I logged in
[09:20] <tbielawa> Looking up irc.ubuntu.com. Connecting to irc.ubuntu.com (140.211.166.3) port 8001..
[09:21] <jpatrick> 6667->6669 and 8001
[09:21] <\sh> thx a lot :)
[09:22] <jpatrick> recommended is 8001
[09:24] <\sh> ok...reconnecting ;) hopefully :)
[09:24] <\sh> brb
[09:24] <tbielawa> hi 2 u \sh
[09:24] <tbielawa> You made it through ok!
[09:25] <\sh> nope
[09:25] <\sh> it's the old server...damn xchat
[09:26] <\sh> now :9
[09:26] <tbielawa> wb
[09:26] <jpatrick> avoiding the DCC exploit?
[09:28] <\sh> jpatrick, nope...moving dircproxy from old root to new root server, but company is blocking 6667 ;)
[09:28] <jpatrick> \sh: they don't know the power of IRC :(
[09:29] <\sh> jpatrick, I'll have to talk to them for my root server because they are also supporting ubuntu in general, so I think they help to support me ;)
[09:30] <\sh> anyways...dircproxy move successful, was just changing the connection port from 6667 to 8001 ;)
[09:30] <jpatrick> :)
[09:33] <\sh> siretart, i don't think ove wants to move to the single package method for wine
[09:50] <slytherin> persia: do you have some time to review and sponsor merge for lucene2?
[09:51] <persia> slytherin: I don't take sponsor requests, but if it's in the queue, I'll take a look when I look at the queue, and if you've a question, I'll take a quick look to answer the question.
[09:52] <slytherin> persia: No, I don't have any question. I will wait, thanks.
[09:58] <siretart> \sh: what's the problem with that? - or other way round, why do we insist on a big monolithic package?
[09:58] <DktrKranz2> james_w: do you want bug 114688 to be unsubscribed from motu-sru for now?
[09:59] <siretart> my point in that post was to have the situation documented
[09:59] <james_w> DktrKranz2: I think so yes. It can't be currently fixed by an upload of uswsusp, so that seems to be the right thing to do doesn't it?
[10:01] <DktrKranz2> james_w: I can unsubscribe it, waiting for a good fix. thanks
[10:01] <james_w> thanks DktrKranz2
[10:02] <\sh> siretart, because imho even debian people are using just the winehq packages...just KISS ;)
[10:03] <\sh> s/people/users/
[10:03] <siretart> \sh: that doesn't answer my question
[10:05] <siretart> a possible answer that would indeed answer my question could be 'because we want to annoy ove'. (please don't misunderstand me here)
[10:05] <\sh> siretart, ok...the technical part: it's easier to maintain it in the monolithic approach...reading the debian package  structure actually scares jesus out of me...regarding the amd64 approach of debian it's just crap...ok ia32-libs is also crap, but is a more nicer approach
[10:05] <\sh> siretart, and no...I don't want to annoy anyone here :)
[10:07] <siretart> well, we do in fact annoy people with that here. you state the reason for that is 'maintainability', which is okay for me.
[10:08] <\sh> siretart, well, we could discuss this in #ubuntu-wine ;)
[10:08] <\sh> siretart, anyways..I'm awaiting some replies from Ove to my mails...
[10:11] <siretart> \sh: I wouldn't expect him to answer. your tone was pretty rude, IMO.
[10:11] <siretart> regarding wine, I don't have particular interest in wine since I don't use it
[10:18] <\sh> siretart, well, I just replied what I think is important for the users, not pleasing the maintainers soul...as he stated, that he only expectes us to answer, when we agree with him on doing the debian way...evolution is change..change is good...;)
[10:18] <siretart> and change only for the sake of changing things is the road to hell
[10:20] <\sh> siretart, there was a decision made during breezy, why we took the winehq packages of scott...because they are following winehq development ... and watching users, who are actually using the packages, they want to follow the winehq development as well, because wine is changing too fast..and wine users wants to have new crack every 2 weeks...
[10:21] <\sh> siretart, and those packages from winehq were well maintained by Scott...
[10:23] <siretart> and what is Scott's particular reason to not merge his packages with ove's? are ove's package so hard to maintain?
[10:25] <\sh> siretart, when you have several changes in between releases, it's hard to maintain several binary packages...you miss new files, you will miss new features, which are not even known by anyone involved in wine development...there are several reasons to just follow the "one upstream tarball == one (at least we have two) distro package" approach...
[10:25] <\sh> siretart, so yes, it's really hard to maintain the package, and staying on top of each wine release...
[10:26] <siretart> I see.
[10:27] <\sh> siretart, and regarding the amd64 approach of debian, I don#t want to comment on this...
[10:28] <siretart> I think it is sad that we have that divergence at all and so few people are interested in solving it
[10:35] <charliecb> hi
[10:36] <\sh> siretart, I'm not saying that the debian package in general is wrong...it follows all debian standards for sure...but following the rules does not mean following the reality and I don't know anyone who just installs libwine-print to enable printing for windows apps, without having wine-bin installed...
[10:37] <\sh> siretart, so reality means: apt-get install wine which pulls the whole bunch of bin packages onto real users computer
[10:39] <charliecb> i searched a package in ubuntu called "libjogl-java". i found the package in debian unstable, but i didn't found in intrepid
[10:41] <james_w> charliecb: it appears to be a new package in Debian, is that correct?
[10:42] <charliecb> it's maybe 2 month old, i think
[10:42] <james_w> if so then it is probably just waiting to be imported to Ubuntu, which should happen soon.
[10:42] <charliecb> james_w: ^^
[10:43] <charliecb> james_w: thanks
[10:46] <i4x> good morning everyone!!
[10:46] <i4x> :)
[10:52] <tbielawa> woohoo!!
[10:52] <tbielawa> I got syndicated on planet ubuntu users, http://ubuntuweblogs.org/ woohoo!
[10:54] <i4x> syndicated? what is it?
[10:55] <tbielawa> well, just included
[10:55] <i4x> hm.. ok!
[10:55] <tbielawa> Best i can tell it's a ubuntu universe blog, similar to planet.ubuntu.com except for non main ubuntu people
[10:56] <tbielawa> like, a motu type folk blog aggregater + general ubuntu talk. that's what i see there. MOTUs, people working to be then, and general ubuntu + linux posts
[10:56] <i4x> I see..
[10:59] <i4x> what is a "sponsor"?
[11:00] <tbielawa> I think it it some one with more administrative power than you who can vouch for a package you have your name on and upload it to the repos
[11:03] <i4x> hm.. fine! so, if I want to contribute, I'll need a sponsor, right?
[11:03] <persia> Actually, "sponsor" means different things in different contexts.  For uploads where the person preparing the revision doesn't have upload access to the component for which the revision is targeted, it just means someone to upload for you.  For most other contexts, it means someone to report good things in your favour, preferably people whose opinions have been acknowledged as wise.
[11:03]  * tbielawa nods
[11:03] <tbielawa> persia has this wisdom he speaks of
[11:03] <persia> i4x: You'd need a sponsor for any given revision, but there are teams who do sponsoring.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
[11:04] <i4x> hmm, interesting!! :)
[11:05] <tbielawa> i4x, how long have you been in this comminity?
[11:05] <tbielawa> *community
[11:05] <tbielawa> on the motu side of things
[11:06] <i4x> I thought that "sponsor" was like the one who spends money for getting hes "name" on it!!..
[11:06] <tbielawa> lol
[11:07] <i4x> I'm discovering the motus side for about one week!...
[11:07] <persia> Ah.  There's that too.  There are several groups that sponsor various aspects of Ubuntu development in a financial sense, most notably Canonical.
[11:07] <tbielawa> i4x: me too@!
[11:08] <tbielawa> i4x: how are you getting along so far?
[11:10] <i4x> I was searching "how to build a package", and found this side!.. what I never thought it was so.. simple? yes, because it seems anyone (with a good programming, etc) can contribute to the community!
[11:11] <i4x> tbielawa_shower: what do you mean with "how are you gettin...." ?
[11:12]  * mok0 finds konqueror-kde4 pretty buggy
[11:13] <i4x> anyone knows a channel for report printing problems??
[11:13] <soren> i4x: That's what launchpad is for.
[11:13] <joaopinto> launchpad.net ?
[11:14] <persia> i4x: Problem reports ought be filed as bugs.  #ubuntu-bugs is a place to discuss them after they are filed.
[11:14] <i4x> I know it.. thx!
[11:17] <i4x> but, where should I go to discuss the problem? will #ubuntu-bugs answer a problem about printing? is there any #printing ?? because I don't even know if it is really a problem!! :S
[11:17] <joaopinto> i4x, if you need support (not a bug report), ask on #ubuntu
[11:29] <slytherin> Please help. I am trying to create pbuilder chroot for intrepid but getting this error - http://pastebin.com/m40aeb50
[11:30] <mok0> slytherin: did you update it today?
[11:31] <slytherin> mok0: I was trying to create it about 25 minutes ago
[11:31] <mok0> slytherin: hmm
[11:31] <tbielawa_shower> slytherin: everyone is getthing that error
[11:31] <tbielawa_shower> same goes with creating a sid environment
[11:31] <tbielawa_shower> :(
[11:31] <mok0> slytherin: there must be some dependency  out-of-sync with the repo
[11:32] <norsetto> mok0: is that the libc error? (sorry, I just popped in)
[11:32] <slytherin> norsetto: yes
[11:32] <mok0> norsetto: err, don't know
[11:32] <tbielawa_morning> i4x: what I meant before was: how has your experience on the motu side of ubuntu been so far?
[11:33] <mok0> norsetto, Ah, of course, yes
[11:33] <norsetto> mok0, slytherin: yeah, thats DBTS 479202
[11:33] <mok0> norsetto: thought you were talking about a run-time error
[11:34] <mok0> ubotu, 479202?
[11:34] <jpatrick> guten tag dholbach
[11:34] <dholbach> hi jpatrick
[11:34] <slytherin> mok0: any solution?
[11:35] <i4x> tbielawa_morning: you mean: what made me get so far?
[11:35] <norsetto> heya dholbach
[11:35] <dholbach> hey norsetto
[11:36] <i4x> tbielawa_morning: that is a question my English do not translate so well! :D
[11:36] <mok0> slytherin: slytherin, looks like there's a patch at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=479202
[11:36] <slytherin> has anyone built any package for intrepid in PPA? I uploaded one yesterday in my PPA, it says 'Built' but I can't find .deb anywhere
[11:36] <mok0> ubottu, you are too slow
[11:37] <norsetto> mok0: do us all a favour and shoot him in the head
[11:37] <slytherin> mok0: Yes, I saw that. So I will have to wait till that is fixed.
[11:37]  * mok0 looks for his electron phaser
[11:37] <joh> Hi, any admins here who can re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring please?
[11:37] <mok0> slytherin: apply the patch yourself, perhaps?
[11:38] <mok0> slytherin: or install the missing package?
[11:38] <i4x> tbielawa_morning: but anyway: I'm studying "installation and management of networks and informatic (?) systems"!
[11:39] <mok0> slytherin: in a non ii environment, of course
[11:40] <slytherin> mok0: I haven't yet created chroot. How can I install the missing package?
[11:41] <mok0> slytherin: there are some hooks and stuff in pbuilder that you may be able to use.
[11:41] <tbielawa_morning> i4x: so you
[11:41] <mok0> slytherin: never did it, though, so I am not of much use here
[11:41] <tbielawa_morning> i4x: *so you're enjoying all this, I am too
[11:42] <slytherin> mok0: I think I will instead use old hardy chroot, install perl and then upgrade it.
[11:42] <mok0> slytherin: good idea
[11:43] <mok0> (you may want to keep your hardy-base.tgz around
[11:43] <slytherin> mok0: yes I have.
[11:44] <mok0> slytherin: I mean, make a backup of it :-)
[11:44] <slytherin> mok0: yes, I meant the same. :-)
[11:44] <mok0> slytherin: Perhaps you can post your base.tgz when you get it made
[11:44] <slytherin> mok0: I am using two different pbuilderrc, each referring to different base.tgz
[11:45] <slytherin> mok0: I don't have any hosting space.
[11:45]  * tbielawa_morning seconds mok0s idea
[11:45] <i4x> tbielawa_morning: I've to make a little project to "System Programming", but it is too easy for me! as I like to know everything, I've to complicate the project to make it better and to learn more than what the teachers teach! :)
[11:45] <tbielawa_morning> if we need some space and bandwith, I can host at my domain
[11:45] <mok0> slytherin: can we use dcc?
[11:46] <mok0> slytherin: I can host it
[11:46] <slytherin> mok0: wait for some time, let me first update the base.tgz
[11:47] <i4x> tbielawa_morning: so I'm building a package instead of making a manual!! to make the installation easier and to learn how the universe rocks.. :)
[11:47] <tbielawa_morning> i4x: i do the same thing. last semester i wrote a gui for a program that wasn't even required
[11:48] <slytherin> i4x: I suggest you start fixing small bugs in packages instead. That way you get to learn a lot before you do packaging from scratch
[11:50] <i4x> slytherin: I've already the ideas!.. and I know how to do it.. but even if I want to fix small bugs first, I'll be spending time I don't have! :S
[11:52] <i4x> so I'm trying to make the .c file and scripts working quickly as I can to then have time to test the package..
[11:53] <i4x> my problem is that I've never done it before, and even knowing how to do it, I don't know where to start! :)
[11:53] <i4x> it's like doing all at the same time!!
[11:56] <i4x> where do I report a problem about system-config-printer? Launchpad says: "System Config Printer does not use Launchpad as its bug tracker."
[11:59] <mok0> i4x: find the package under the Ubuntu project
[11:59] <persia> i4x: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-config-printer/+filebug
[12:01] <i4x> thx..
[12:12] <i4x> ppl, while reporting the bug, I made "apt-cache policy system-config-printer" and appeared: system-config-printer:  Installed: (none)  Candidate: (none)  Version table:
[12:12] <i4x> is that normal?
[12:12] <i4x> :S
[12:12] <tbielawa_morning> i4x: try using apt-cache search system-config-printer
[12:12] <tbielawa_morning> there are three options
[12:13] <i4x> wow, thx!!
[12:13] <i4x> :)
[12:13] <tbielawa_morning> i4x: you're welcome
[12:17] <tbielawa_morning> I <3 the slackware website. they regularly go 3 years between news posts, and no one things odd of it
[12:17] <tbielawa_morning> *thinks
[12:22] <StevenK> tbielawa_morning: Of course not.
[12:23] <joh> I'm having trouble getting my package uploaded to REVU. Any help?
[12:24] <tbielawa_morning> joh: error message? pastebin it if it's big
[12:24] <joh> tbielawa_morning: Well, there were none. dput completed successfully but the package doesn't show up on the revu site.
[12:26] <tbielawa_morning> i heard it takes around 5-10 minutes to update, has it been that long? are you in the keyring?
[12:26] <joh> tbielawa_morning: I beleive it has been that long yes. I'm not sure if I'm in the REVU keyring though.
[12:27] <tbielawa_morning> joh: unless you've asked you won't be in the keyring. you'll need an admin on here to add you
[12:27] <wgrant> joh: Have you joined the revu-uploaders team on Launchpad?
[12:27] <joh> wgrant: Yep
[12:27] <joh> tbielawa_morning: Ah, I see.
[12:27] <wgrant> joh: When?
[12:27] <wgrant> joh: Have you requested that the keyring be synced?
[12:28] <joh> wgrant: Last night, so it's probably not updated yet.
[12:28] <joh> wgrant: I have requested but got no response :-)
[12:28] <wgrant> joh: I'll sync it now.
[12:29] <joh> wgrant: Great, thank you!
[12:29] <wgrant> It will take several minutes; I'll ping you when it's done.
[12:29] <joh> Alright, will I have to re-upload my package afterwards?
[12:30] <wgrant> joh: You will.
[12:31] <wgrant> Or I could just move it back and accept it myself. Probably better, as it's easy enough.
[12:31] <joh> Great, the package name is 'alarm-clock'.
[12:34] <i4x> as no1 read my questions in ubuntu, ﻿anyone here knows if evince uses system-config-printer to print files??
[12:35] <wgrant> i4x: This isn't a support channel.
[12:36] <i4x> wow, that helps!!
[12:36] <wgrant> joh: Accepting upload alarm-clock from Johannes H. Jensen <joh@pseudoberries.com>
[12:47] <joh> wgrant: Thank you!
[12:53] <cheatr> Quick Question. I'm doing a merge. In the last ubuntu entry in the changelog, the only change was adding a couple provides/replaces/conflicts entries to the control file. All of these are able to be removed. Since normally you are meant to copy the entries from the last ubuntu entry in the changelog to the entry for the merge you are performing, what should I do?
[12:54] <ScottK> You should figure out why they were added and then determine if they are still needed.
[12:54] <persia> cheatr: Will the package work properly without the changes now?  Can the divergence be ended with a sync?
[12:54] <emgent> heya ScottK persia
[12:54] <ScottK> Heya emgent
[12:56] <cheatr> persia and ScottK: The only change that would be lost would be the Maintainer field if a sync were to be performed instead of a merge. Is this important enough?
[12:56] <persia> cheatr: Certainly not.  That sounds like a sync.  Modify your merge bug to a sync bug, and subscribe the sponsors for confirmation.
[12:56] <ScottK> cheatr: So we don't need the provides/replaces/conflicts anymore?
[12:57] <cheatr> ScottK: The provides/replaces/conflicts was added for the transition from dapper->hardy. It says in the comment that it can be removed for hardy+1.
[12:57] <mok0> Anybody knows what package contains GL/GLwMDrawA.h ??
[12:58] <ScottK> cheatr: Then it should be a sync.
[12:58]  * sebner waves :)
[12:58] <StevenK> mok0: I *think* none of them.
[12:58] <ScottK> mok0: I'm with StevenK.
[12:59] <mok0> StevenK: Arrgh
[12:59] <mok0> I feared as much
[12:59] <cheatr> Thanks ScottK
[12:59] <StevenK> I *think*, and this is streching back to Dapper, that we removed GLw since it's a buggy pile of crap.
[13:00] <ScottK> p.u.c doesn't know anything about it.
[13:01] <StevenK> If I recall correctly, Breezy was the last release to know about it.
[13:01] <wgrant> Hmm.
[13:01] <wgrant> I thought there was some component conflict which meant we had to remove it.
[13:01] <wgrant> Or at least that was GLw related.
[13:01] <ScottK> Before my time.
[13:02] <wgrant> But I really don't remember.
[13:03] <StevenK> I'm having a hard time remembering, since I came across this during Dapper's development cycle.
[13:04] <joh> wgrant: I've uploaded my package to REVU and added the link to the [needs-packaging] bug description. Is there anything else I need to do but wait at this point?
[13:04] <mok0> StevenK: I will look for it on the packages site
[13:04] <wgrant> joh: I'm not sure. I don't do that side of the process.
[13:05] <joh> wgrant: Ok
[13:06] <StevenK> mok0: Patch it out and move on. I did. :-)
[13:06] <mok0> StevenK: What do you use instead?
[13:07] <mok0> StevenK: I just need to compile a tarball and don't want to spend too much time on it
[13:07] <slytherin> does anyone have any idea when will ppa be able to build packages for intrepid?
[13:08] <StevenK> mok0: Nothing.
[13:08] <StevenK> slytherin: Ask in #launchpad.
[13:08] <ScottK> joh: Generally not other than have patience.  You may, if you choose, ask once or twice a day here (with a link to your package on REVU) ask for someone to review it.  More often is considered rude (except on REVU days).
[13:08] <slytherin> StevenK: ok
[13:09] <mok0> StevenK: and your program still works? Fascinating
[13:09] <slytherin> StevenK: I thought the decision was to be made bu Ubuntu dev.
[13:09] <ScottK> slytherin: Ubuntu has nothing to do with PPA.  It's totally a Launchpad thing.
[13:09] <StevenK> mok0: This was a merge for Dapper. I remember disabling GLw example programs for <some package>
[13:09] <slytherin> joh: make sure you tag the bug with 'needs-packaging'
[13:10] <mok0> StevenK: On CentOS the include file is part of xorg-x11-devel
[13:11] <StevenK> So CentOS don't disable GLw. Okay.
[13:12]  * mok0 cries... whaaaaaaaa
[13:21] <mok0> StevenK: Things have happened in the mesa source package
[13:22] <mok0> StevenK: why not just spilt off the glw stuff in a separate package?
[13:24] <StevenK> mok0: Because the choices were made before my time, I was just preserving the status quo.
[13:24] <mok0> StevenK: looks like these are local ubuntu changes
[13:25] <mok0> StevenK: does it have to do with removing lesstif?
[13:25] <StevenK> The choices were made before my time -- no idea.
[13:31] <ScottK> proppy: Are you going to look after poker-network?  I think we may be able to sync it.  I'm not at all convinced the pre-depends on db-common is really needed.
[13:34] <proppy> ScottK: is there some issue with poker-network ? let me check my mail, I may not have noticed it
[13:34] <ScottK> proppy: It needs to be merged/sync'ed for Intrepid.
[13:34] <proppy> ah remembering the ubuntu patch that were introduced with gutsy
[13:34] <ScottK> Right.
[13:35] <ScottK> I'm not convinced it's needed any longer.  Could you look into it?
[13:35] <proppy> yep, I'm in the middle of submitting a patch to Evolution right now, I'll check that just after
[13:37] <ScottK> Great.
[13:38] <proppy> poker-network is 1.2.0-1ubuntu1 in hardy
[13:39] <proppy> It seems that I could have merged it earlied :)
[13:39] <proppy> r
[13:41] <proppy> it's 1.4.0-1 in unstable
[13:41] <proppy> upstream is 1.5.0
[13:42] <ScottK> So the question is, is 1.4.0-1 workable for Ubuntu or do we need to retain the diff?
[13:44] <proppy> the diff is dependencies to simple-patch-sys
[13:44] <proppy> (without patch)
[13:44] <proppy> and db-common predepend
[13:44] <proppy> let me find the launchpad bug report where we added the predepend
[13:45] <ScottK> proppy: https://launchpad.net/bugs/138836
[13:45] <proppy> there seems to be differencies in Build-Depends and Depends too, but the diff is difficulte to read
[13:45] <proppy> ScottK: faster than google
[13:46] <ScottK> proppy: There are some other differences, but that's the one that seemed the most critical.  I took a quick look and it seemed the rest was adding stuff (it's less different than I remember).
[13:48]  * proppy just noticed the bug number was listed in ubuntu patch 
[13:49] <proppy> From debian policy:
[13:49] <proppy>     Pre-Depends are also required if the preinst script depends on the named package. It is best to avoid this situation if possible.
[13:49] <slytherin> mok0: Lots of hiccups in upgrading base.tgz. :-(
[13:49] <proppy> checking poker-web preinst
[13:49] <ScottK> proppy: I don't think it uses it.
[13:49] <mok0> slytherin: what kind of hiccups? Tool chain issues?
[13:50] <slytherin> mok0: yes, unmet dependencies for perl packages
[13:50] <mok0> slytherin: ydrk
[13:50] <Hobbsee> that's known
[13:50] <mok0> slytherin: I actually thought perl was part of the base set
[13:50] <proppy> ScottK: may I try a prevu in intrepid using debian .dsc ?
[13:50] <slytherin> mok0: liblocale-gettext-perl has unmet dependenciy
[13:51] <mok0> slytherin: can you force it?
[13:51] <ScottK> proppy: I've no idea.  I don't use prevu.
[13:51] <ScottK> jdong: ^^^?
[13:51] <slytherin> mok0: don't think so
[13:52] <proppy> ScottK: a chroot would work too
[13:52] <proppy> ScottK: I was suggesting that I try a build of the debian source package, as a first step
[13:52] <proppy> ScottK: is intreprid available for deboostrap
[13:52] <proppy> ScottK: I quite remember one should add a deb-src
[13:52] <mok0> proppy: apparently not according to slytherin
[13:53] <ScottK> There is one in hardy-backports.
[13:53] <ScottK> Some people report problems.  I haven't had any myself.
[13:53] <proppy> ScottK: that what I remembered that the dist+1 deboostrap was in dist-backport
[13:53] <slytherin> mok0: wait, perl-base provides the package which is dependency of ﻿liblocale-gettext-perl but I am not sure why it is giving problem
[13:54] <mok0> slytherin: the way I read the discussion at the BTS, all you had to do was to install both perl and perl-base.
[13:55] <slytherin> mok0: tried that. this is the error - http://pastebin.com/m224aa5ee
[13:56] <proppy> deboostraping intrepid
[13:56] <proppy> would be nice if ubuntu-wire supplied copy-on-write chroot, accessible via ssh using launchpad public keys :)
[13:58] <Hobbsee> a copy on write chroot?
[13:58] <mok0> slytherin: I don't know what to suggest :-(
[13:58] <mok0> slytherin: except wait
[13:59] <proppy> Hobbsee: to share one deboostrap with multiple chroot
[13:59] <slytherin> mok0: I think Iwill start again
[13:59] <Hobbsee> proppy: -v?
[13:59] <mok0> slytherin: yeah
[14:00] <proppy> Hobbsee: Imagine that you want to share a fresh debootstrap intrepid intrepid, for testing merging of different package
[14:00] <proppy> s/merging/merge/
[14:00] <proppy> or build
[14:01] <Hobbsee> proppy: so what you actually want is pbuilder, so that anyone can share it.
[14:01] <Hobbsee> er, use it
[14:01] <Hobbsee> (you can't split debootstrap)
[14:01] <proppy> Hobbsee: pbuilder store the deboostrap in a base.tgz IIRC
[14:02] <Hobbsee> proppy: that's correct.
[14:02] <proppy> Hobbsee: I know that there are way to use if over lvm snapshot but never tried
[14:02] <Hobbsee> proppy: it's a security risk to run pbuilder on a multi-user system like that, though
[14:02] <Hobbsee> which is why revu, etc, have it disabled.
[14:03] <proppy> Hobbsee: even if you only provide accessto the pbuilder chrooted environement
[14:03] <Amaranth> you have to be root to run pbuilder
[14:03] <Hobbsee> proppy: i guess you could disable switches.
[14:03] <Amaranth> root can break out of a chroot
[14:03] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: you can set it to not require a root password.
[14:03] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: the bigger problem is the --bindmounts option
[14:03] <Amaranth> ah, right
[14:04] <proppy> Amaranth: I wasnt' meaning to run pbuilder, just to provide access to a chroot initialised by debootstrap (or pbuilder)
[14:04] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: which lets you mount whatever you want.
[14:04] <Amaranth> Hobbsee: but not if you aren't root? :)
[14:04] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: hmmm.  maybe you can run it as non-root, if you kept it all inside ~
[14:06] <slytherin> mok0: found the reason, a sync is needed for liblocale-gettext-perl
[14:08] <proppy> ScottK: I'm afraid deboostrap is taking ages here
[14:08] <ScottK> proppy: No rush.  I leave it in your hands.
[14:09] <proppy> ScottK: can I open a bug somewhere ? so I notify other pokersource people with it ?
[14:10] <ScottK> proppy: Sure.  Just title it as a merge bug and assign it to yourself.
[14:10] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: i've always thought it's a bigger problem that people could bindmount ~
[14:10] <proppy> ScottK: If I understand the process correctly one have to check if it is a sync or a merge before opening a bug ?
[14:10] <ScottK> proppy: Ideally yes, but you can edit the bug later if it turns out different.
[14:10] <proppy> ScottK: nice :)
[14:12] <proppy> Hobbsee: xen would be an option too, I heard it can spawn multiple readonly instance or the same image
[14:12] <Hobbsee> proppy: hmmm, it probably would.
[14:13] <proppy> Hobbsee: then one could be able to provide ssh:// next to launchpad bug url :)
[14:13] <Hobbsee> heh :)
[14:13] <wgrant> Or one could provide a PPA URL.
[14:13] <wgrant> That's easier than us reinventing PPA.
[14:14] <proppy> wgrant: can you ssh to a PPA ?
[14:14] <Hobbsee> ...no
[14:14] <wgrant> No. Why would you need to?
[14:15] <proppy> wgrant: to have an instant shell on a bug reproduction environement instead of deboostraping locally, and trying to reproduce the condition
[14:15]  * StevenK shivers
[14:15] <wgrant> Oh. Bugs, not builds. I see.
[14:15] <proppy> wgrant: builds bug :)
[14:15] <wgrant> Doesn't everyone have chroots?
[14:15] <ScottK> Not of Intrepid currently.
[14:16] <wgrant> Everyone will soon enough.
[14:16] <ScottK> Agreed.
[14:16] <proppy> wgrant: I thought you'd have to have one chroot by bug, but I maybe wrong
[14:16] <wgrant> proppy: Why can't you just reuse them?
[14:18] <proppy> wgrant: I guess you can, I just think it is easier to reproduce build and installation issue from a clean environement
[14:19] <wgrant> ... yes?
[14:19] <wgrant> Of course is it.
[14:19] <wgrant> Reuse the clean chroot.
[14:20] <broonie> eg, a pbuilder chroot
[14:20] <proppy> wgrant: and then if you get into the bug reproduction situation it would be nice to be able to provide a shell to someone else
[14:21] <proppy> instead of giving an howto reproduce in the bug comments :)
[14:21] <proppy> But I agree it is not *needed*, just thinked it was handy
[14:22] <wgrant> Perhaps so, but there would be a lot of work in it.
[14:22] <proppy> s/was/would be/
[14:22] <proppy> maybe it doesn't worth this work :)
[14:26] <proppy> ScottK: #227323 filled
[14:26] <proppy> bug #227323
[14:27] <ScottK> proppy: Great.  Let me know when you get something worked out.
[14:34] <slytherin> are latest gstreamer plugins (bad/ugly) going to get SRU?
[14:34] <emgent> tseliot: \o
[14:34] <tseliot> ﻿emgent: hi ;)
[14:47] <norsetto> emgent: thats the right arm ....
[14:47] <emgent> norsetto: ahahaha :)
[14:48] <emgent> we can use this too:
[14:48] <emgent> o
[14:48] <emgent>  \O
[14:54] <awen_> has anybody who had problems got pbuilder / debootstrap to work with intrepid? ... fails miserably for me for both sid and intrepid
[14:55] <azeem> awen_: try to bootstrap hardy, then dist-upgrade, maybe
[14:56] <persia> awen_: I think it's Debian bug #479202
[14:59] <awen_> persia: oh, looks like it could be it ... hopefully got to be fixed soon then
[15:31]  * norsetto -> away
[15:42] <fargiolas> hey, any motu sru team member?
[15:42] <proppy> proppy@nihiki:~$ sudo apt-get remove gsynaptic
[15:42] <proppy> Note, selecting synaptic instead of gsynaptic
[15:42] <proppy> ouch
[15:50] <soren> proppy: This is surprising?
[15:53] <proppy> soren: yep, I've forgotten an *s* :), I wanted to remove gsynaptics
[15:53] <proppy> :)
[15:54] <jdong> slight namespace clash :)
[15:54] <Hobbsee> no great problem removing synaptic anyway
[15:54] <jdong> ^^ KDE user above.
[15:54] <jdong> *ducks*
[15:57]  * Hobbsee beats jdong
[15:57] <Hobbsee> jdong: apt works just fine.
[15:57] <Hobbsee> jdong: i really don't like adept.
[16:01] <proppy> Hobbsee: the 'update available' popup is still handy, even if using apt :)
[16:03] <Hobbsee> true
[16:03] <Hobbsee> but i thought that was update-manager, not synaptic
[16:04] <proppy> Hobbsee: yep but removing synaptic removed me update-manager as well :P
[16:05] <Hobbsee> proppy: awww.  no fun
[16:05] <Hobbsee> hi jono
[16:05] <jono> hey
[16:06] <no0tic> anyone who wants to mentor me on the path of the motu?
[16:09] <bddebian> Heya gang
[16:09] <geser> Hi bddebian
[16:09] <bddebian> Hi geser
[16:13] <\sh> ok...45 mins left until party time
[16:13] <Iulian> Hey bddebian, geser.
[16:16] <bddebian> Hello Iulian
[16:17] <geser> Hi Iulian
[16:17] <geser> \sh: what party?
[16:21] <\sh> geser, Einstand ;)
[16:21]  * \sh doesn't know the word in English :)
[16:22] <\sh> first day party
[16:23] <jdavies> no0tic: see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
[16:24] <no0tic> jdavies, read
[16:25] <persia> no0tic: Alternately, jump in with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO, and review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
[16:26] <no0tic> persia, yes, I've already read them..
[16:30] <\sh> ok..cu tomorrow...I'll put some beer into my system now ;)
[16:32] <sebner> \sh: hf
[16:33] <emgent> bye \sh :)
[16:34] <norsetto> proppy: synaptic is the first thing I remove on a new installation :-)
[16:36] <proppy> norsetto: you're a blueman too ? :)
[16:36] <norsetto> proppy: I'm a k-man (trumpet sound) I'm a k-man (trumpet sound)
[16:38] <bddebian> heh
[16:42] <proppy> norsetto: pi po pa la to po
[16:43] <norsetto> proppy: sorry, french music is not my best (les frics, sont chic)
[16:45] <proppy> norsetto: "le fric (money) c'est chic"
[16:45] <norsetto> proppy: but you want a lot of it ....
[16:53] <proppy> norsetto: not really
[16:54] <norsetto> proppy: you are right, frugal is beautifull
[16:54] <i4x> how do I declare/initialize a mysql in C? isn't it "MYSQL mysql.conn;"
[16:55] <i4x> with the mysql/mysql.h included..?
[16:56] <i4x> wow, I think I forgot the -lmysqlclient while compiling..
[16:56] <i4x> thx anyway!
[17:39] <proppy> see you :)
[18:08] <RainCT> OT, can someone recommend me a graphical IRC client for GNOME?
[18:09] <jdavies> RainCT: XChat-gnome is very good I hear
[18:20] <kirkland> zul: yo
[18:20] <kirkland> zul: php5 uploaded to my homedir on chinstrap again
[18:20] <zul> okies Ill have a look
[18:20] <kirkland> zul: thx, let me know
[18:20] <zul> yep
[20:07] <kirkland> zul: any feedback on php5?
[20:07] <zul> kirkland: not yet....gimme a sec
[20:20] <zul> kirkland: looks ok to me
[20:20] <kirkland> zul: yay \o/
[20:22] <zul> kirkland: mind cleaning that directory up a bit and ill start getting it uploaded
[20:22] <kirkland> zul: sure, clean how?
[20:23] <zul> rm -f *.deb  etc
[20:23] <kirkland> zul: i can do that...  what do you need to push?  just the .dsc or changes, right?
[20:23] <kirkland> zul: deb's removed
[20:23] <zul> dsc changes diff and orig
[20:24] <kirkland> zul: okay, deb's removed, let me know what else
[20:25] <zul> sure gimme a sec
[20:25] <soyyo> hi
[20:26] <zul> cool i can take it from here
[20:36] <zul> kirkland: uploaded
[20:36] <kirkland> zul: you rock, sucka
[20:36] <zul> sucka?
[20:38] <kirkland> zul: bad movie reference, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095348/
[20:39] <kirkland> zul: failed to build :-/
[20:40] <zul> kirkland: grumble grumble...
[20:40] <kirkland> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14264042/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.php5_5.2.5-3ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[20:40] <kirkland> Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
[20:41] <zul> kirkland: *grumble **grumble*
[20:41] <jdavies> kirkland: one of the dependencies of the dependencies must be uninstallable
[20:44] <kirkland> jdavies: thanks, so it'll auto retry the build later?
[20:45] <jdavies> I think so.
[20:47] <RoAkSoAx> is libc6 already updated in the intrepid repos? cuz we were unable to create a pbuilder environment
[20:49] <jdavies> kirkland: it's a shame it does say where _exactly_ the problem lies
[20:50] <kirkland> jdavies: you speak of libsnmp-dev -> libsnmp-perl, libsnmp15 ?
[20:50] <Creationist> Any word on when the Hardy repos will be fixed.... I've got a useless system right now without being able to install what I need..
[20:51] <jdavies> kirkland: ..or whichever the broken dep is
[20:56] <kirkland> TheCreationist: um, broken hardy repos?
[20:57] <TheCreationist> kirkland: The default repos either can't be connected to at all, or they're VERY slow to download.
[20:57] <kirkland> TheCreationist: ah, gotcha. sorry, i mirror locally  ;-)
[20:57] <secretlondon> TheCreationist, try another mirror?
[20:57] <TheCreationist> kirkland: Yeah, I'm trying to do that too... but can't remember my password to msg ubottu to learn how :)
[21:00] <TheCreationist> How do I use local repositories?
[21:00] <coppro> add it to your sources.list?
[21:03] <TheCreationist> No, what I mean is that the official repositories seem to be broken; I can't install anything from them.  I was told to try another mirror... no idea how to do that or where to find that list.
[21:03] <RoAkSoAx> TheCreationist, sudo vim /etc/apt/sources.list
[21:03] <TheCreationist> RoAkSoAx: No, I know how to edit the list, but I don't know where to find a list of different mirrors for the repos.
[21:04] <TheCreationist> ...or are they all really only hosted on one server?
[21:04] <RoAkSoAx> TheCreationist, for example, the us will we deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy universe, Peru deb http://pe.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy universe
[21:04] <RoAkSoAx> . Netherlands, deb http://nl.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy universe, and so on
[21:05] <TheCreationist> Right... the us repositories don't work.
[21:05] <RoAkSoAx> TheCreationist, neither the peruvian ones, or the simepl deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy universe
[21:05] <RoAkSoAx> simple*
[21:05] <TheCreationist> So my only option would be to use a different region'ss repos?
[21:05] <RoAkSoAx> so might be a general problem between all the repos
[21:05] <TheCreationist> ah.
[21:06] <RoAkSoAx> i've tried the general repos, the us repos and the nl repos and the same thing
[21:06] <TheCreationist> And no one has any idea when this may be fixed?
[21:06] <TheCreationist> lol ironic that at the moment it's much easier to install software in Windows than in Ubuntu ;)
[21:07] <RoAkSoAx> TheCreationist, you can always donwload the binaries from: packages.ubuntu.com
[21:12] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: it.archive.ubuntu.com is working
[21:13] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto, thanks =)
[21:13] <RoAkSoAx> gonna change my repos then xD
[21:23] <TheCreationist> Yeah for the Italians.
[21:23] <TheCreationist> Now, I trust using their repos will still install English-version software, right? lol
[21:23] <RoAkSoAx> TheCreationist, off course.. lol
[21:23] <TheCreationist> Finally, I can get multimedia support and Amarok :)
[21:24] <TheCreationist> thank you, norsetto
[21:24] <norsetto> TheCreationist: np
[21:24] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto, you able to install a pbuilder environment for intrepid?
[21:25] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: I did before the perl bug hit it
[21:25] <emgent> there is a problem on libc
[21:25] <emgent>  W: Failure trying to run: chroot /var/cache/pbuilder/build/4400/. dpkg
[21:25] <emgent>                   --force-depends --install var/cache/apt/archives/libc6_2.7-10ubuntu3_i386.deb
[21:26] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto, yeah i did that too but when compiling a package it wast able to download some dependencies so i believe there is a problem with dependencies too...
[21:27] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: yes
[21:27] <RoAkSoAx> oh well so i guess i'll have to wait to do another merge xD
[21:34] <LaserJock> anybody happen to know of a good resource for how to code for writing large data files?
[21:39] <dantalizing> question for the package masters:
[21:40] <dantalizing> i installed handbrakegtk with --ignore-deps ...but now whenever i want to install something else, apt wants to remove it
[21:40] <dantalizing> is there a way to force apt to ignore my 'broken' package
[21:40] <dantalizing> ?
[21:42] <nand> dantalizing: you should maybe give a try with /etc/apt/preferences (see bottom of http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/ch-apt-get.en.html )
[21:43] <dantalizing> nand: i will try that thx
[22:06] <joh> Hi, I'm trying to get my package into the universe repositories. I've uploaded my package to REVU and added the link to the [needs-packaging] bug description. Is there anything else I need to do but wait at this point?
[22:14] <RAOF> joh: That's about it for the moment.  Every now and then you can ping this channel advertising your package, and you might want to turn up for revu days (they're on mondays).
[22:15] <joh> RAOF: Ok, great. Thanks!
[22:23] <norsetto> joh: it also helps if you give the link when asking ...
[22:27] <joh> norsetto: Sure! Here you go: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/227248
[22:29] <norsetto> joh: you don't need dirs for just /usr/bin /usr/sbin
[22:29] <norsetto> joh: anything of relevance in NEWS and README?
[22:30] <norsetto> joh: distro is intrepid, add the LP bug as (LP: #227248) in changelog
[22:31] <norsetto> joh: maintainer is ubuntu-motu, you can list yourself as XSBC-Original-Maintainer
[22:32] <norsetto> joh: pls. remove all the cruft from rules
[22:33] <warp10> Heya all
[22:33] <norsetto> heya warp10
[22:34] <warp10> hey norsetto!
[22:34] <no0tic> norsetto, warp10 accepted to mentor me :)
[22:34] <no0tic> right, warp10?
[22:34] <norsetto> no0tic, warp10: this is not so good ...
[22:35] <warp10> no0tic: it is, for just 10€/day and free beers
[22:35] <no0tic> norsetto, because he is a new motu?
[22:35] <norsetto> no0tic: no, becuase now you have an excuse to not talk english
[22:36] <RoAkSoAx> lol
[22:36] <joh> norsetto: Ok, thanks!
[22:36] <warp10> hehehe
[22:37] <joh> norsetto: What do you mean that I don't need dirs for just /usr/bin and /usr/sbin? How do I fix that?
[22:37] <no0tic> norsetto, ahah
[22:37] <norsetto> joh: remove it
[22:37] <no0tic> norsetto, I have it anyway
[22:37] <emgent> lol
[22:37] <sebner> norsetto: don't bully our new members :P
[22:38] <norsetto> sebner: you want me to bully you?
[22:39] <sebner> norsetto: seems you are bored? ^^
[22:39] <joh> norsetto: How? :P Sorry, I'm new to packaging.
[22:39] <norsetto> warp10, no0tic: seriously, I'd rather prefer if no0tic has a non-italian mentor, but if you guys are happy I can't stop you
[22:39] <norsetto> joh: errr, rm debian/dirs ?
[22:40] <sebner> norsetto: hmm. When I'm a motu in some months I thought to mentor a friend of mine. also bad, hm?
[22:40] <joh> norsetto: Aha! Now I get it :-)
[22:40] <no0tic> norsetto, ok then, waiting for a non italian mentor I will start learning something from him and other italian devs, is it ok?
[22:40] <warp10> norsetto: Yeah, I understand. no0tic, what do you think about that?
[22:40] <norsetto> sebner: in general is a bad idea, it doesn't bode well for integration in an international team
[22:41] <sebner> norsetto: hmm somehow true but when I'm in a query with a german MOTU we talk german ^^
[22:41] <norsetto> sebner: but there is no rule, its good to have a friend helping you at least at the beginning
[22:42] <RoAkSoAx> i have some similar issue, nxvl always tells me to ask him the questions here instead of doing it in -pe and spanish xD
[22:42] <RoAkSoAx> and in spanish
[22:42] <norsetto> sebner: you mean austrian :-)
[22:42] <sebner> norsetto: rofl.
[22:42] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: yes, thats good
[22:43] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto, yes indeed
[22:43] <sebner> the later it gets the funnier norsetto becomes ^^
[22:44] <norsetto> sebner: don't say that to my wife
[22:44] <sebner> norsetto: does she think that you are drinking? ^^
[22:44] <joh> norsetto: NEWS is empty, but required by automake-1.9. README contains a short description and build instructions.
[22:45] <joh> norsetto: What cruft should I remove from rules?
[22:45] <norsetto> sebner: well, the first time we met it was at a party where I got drunk :-)
[22:45] <norsetto> joh: yes, but you don't need to add NEWS to docs then
[22:45] <sebner> norsetto: hrhr oh my dear
[22:46] <joh> norsetto: ok
[22:46] <norsetto> joh: and, for what you tell me, it seems that README is also of no interest to an ubuntu user
[22:46] <joh> norsetto: Ok, removed.
[22:47] <joh> norsetto: So if my package is accepted, it will first be included in intrepid universe, not hardy?
[22:48] <sebner> joh: yes
[22:48] <norsetto> joh: yes, do you need to call dh_installexamples?
[22:48] <joh> norsetto: Probably not, it was on by default. :-)
[22:49] <norsetto> joh: dh_make is evil :-)
[22:49] <joh> norsetto: Oh?
[22:49] <RoAkSoAx> does anyone has an idea of how many packages someone has to work on before asking for a mentor?
[22:49] <sebner> norsetto: a fan of black magic cdbs?
[22:50] <norsetto> sebner: quite the contrary
[22:51] <sebner> norsetto: well, at least dh_make gives a good starting point :)
[22:51] <ajmitch> sebner: I'm sure he prefers yada instead
[22:51] <sebner> ajmitch: hmm yada?
[22:51] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: there is no set rule, but the queue is pretty long, so only the most promising contributors get a chance
[22:51] <joh> norsetto: Anything else I should change? :-)
[22:51] <norsetto> ajmitch: ah yada ... the good memories
[22:51]  * norsetto cries silently
[22:51] <ajmitch> norsetto: running away screaming sort of memories?
[22:52] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto, ok so i'll guess i'll have to work on lots of packages before asking for one :)
[22:52] <norsetto> ajmitch: sorry, I'm busy collecting my hair from the floor
[22:55] <norsetto> joh: that was just a cursory look to the diff, for some detailed comments it takes longer
[22:55] <joh> norsetto: Ok, I'll upload the new version then. Thanks a lot :-)
[22:56] <ScottK> no0tic: What norsetto is telling you is good advice.  My advice is don't seek a single mentor, but ask for advice here from everyone.
[22:56] <no0tic> ScottK, nice
[22:57] <ScottK> Asking here in the channel lets other MOTU see what advice you are given and correct it if it's not the best.
[22:57] <ScottK> It also allows others to learn from the advice you are given.
[22:58] <norsetto> joh: looks like you miss a build-depends
[22:58] <joh> norsetto: Ok?
[22:58] <emgent> ScottK: heya :)
[22:59] <norsetto> joh: gnome-icon-theme
[22:59] <ScottK> heya emgent
[22:59] <joh> norsetto: Ah, true.
[22:59] <sebner> gn8 folks :)
[22:59] <no0tic> ScottK, nice, I will
[23:00] <joh> norsetto: Added
[23:00] <no0tic> ok, warp10 adivced me to create an hardy chroot and then upgrade it to intrepid, as far as at the moment it is not possibile to create it directly, is it correct?
[23:01] <no0tic> I issued: sudo pbuilder create --basetgz /var/cache/pbuilder/hardy.tgz --distribution hardy
[23:01] <norsetto> joh: I don't think the archive admins will complain too loudly, but all the sources in src/tests don't have an header containing license and copyright
[23:01] <joh> norsetto: Ok, I'll add that as well.
[23:02] <norsetto> joh: I stand correct, test_alarm.c does have it, but all the others not
[23:02] <norsetto> corrected even
[23:03] <joh> norsetto: Yeah, the others aren't real unit tests. Some are just random test programs. I could probably exclude some of them in the tarball.
[23:03] <norsetto> joh: since you quote him in AUTHORS, is Lasse Gullvåg Sætre a copyright holder for the artwork?
[23:05] <joh> norsetto: Yeah, although he has agreed to release it under the GPL.
[23:06] <joh> norsetto: Should I add him to debian/copyright?
[23:06] <norsetto> joh: ok, but then you should quote him in debian/copyright as a copyright holder. You may want to specify of what too.
[23:07] <joh> norsetto: Ok
[23:08] <norsetto> joh: in hardy (and I guess also intrepid) /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL points to the GPL-3
[23:09] <joh> norsetto: Oh, I'll update to GPL-2 then.
[23:10] <norsetto> joh: having a watch file and a get-orig-source target in rules would be great
[23:11] <joh> norsetto: Alright, how would I add that?
[23:12] <norsetto> joh: they should be covered by the packaging guide
[23:12] <norsetto> joh: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/DebianWatch
[23:12] <joh> norsetto: Great! thanks
[23:14] <norsetto> joh: here is an example of a get-orig-source target: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Examples/ChangingTheOrigTarball
[23:14] <joh> norsetto: Ok, thanks again
[23:15] <norsetto> joh: check out your control, there are a lot of blank spaces at each end of line
[23:16] <joh> norsetto: What do you mean?
[23:16] <norsetto> joh: when you used a CR to split lines, you left a blank space
[23:16] <joh> norsetto: Aha, *fixing*
[23:17] <joh> norsetto: Will debian/watch work with launchpad?
[23:17] <norsetto> joh: not that I know
[23:20] <pochu> could someone please subscribe me (pochu on lp) to this blueprint? https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packaging-tools-usability
[23:20] <pochu> I want to make sure bug 177508 is really fixed :)
[23:20] <norsetto> joh: do you really autotools-dev as a build-dep?
[23:21] <norsetto> pochu: subscribed
[23:22] <joh> norsetto: Not sure actually...
[23:22] <tacone> norsetto: why is dh_make evil ? any url ?
[23:22] <pochu> norsetto: thank you, I've already received the notification mail and indeed the bug isn't fixed yet...
[23:24] <norsetto> tacone: dh_make makes some attempts at guessing what your package needs. You need to check it, not just take it for granted that it is ok (most of the time, it isn't fully)
[23:28] <tacone> thanks norsetto
[23:29] <joh> norsetto: I'm having trouble getting debian/watch to work with launchpad. Trying the instructions at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/21146
[23:31] <norsetto> joh: ah ok, thats what you meant with "it is working with launchpad"
[23:31] <joh> norsetto: Yep
[23:32] <joh> norsetto: I tried with the following: https://launchpad.net/alarm-clock/+download https://launchpad.net/alarm-clock/trunk/.*/alarm-clock-(.+).tar.gz
[23:32] <norsetto> joh: I don't know actually, I never had a package which was hosted on lp before
[23:32] <Amaranth> um...
[23:32] <Amaranth> this room list for UDS includes some extra info....
[23:33] <joh> norsetto: Ok, how exactly does the watch matching work?
[23:33] <norsetto> joh: you may want to ask in #launchpad, or check the file for another project which is hosted on lp
[23:33] <joh> norsetto: Alright
[23:33] <norsetto> joh: its checking for matches in the source file of the web page
[23:34] <norsetto> I guess the <a href=""> tags
[23:34] <joh> norsetto: Ah
[23:37] <norsetto> joh: maybe you could try with your page, it should catch the links there
[23:39] <norsetto> joh: you may also want to check the man page for uscan
[23:39] <joh> norsetto: I guess, but it's wierd that it doesn't in launchpad...
[23:39] <norsetto> joh: don't know, but http://launchpad.net/alarm-clock/trunk/0.2/+download doesn't exist
[23:40] <joh> norsetto: Right, https://launchpad.net/alarm-clock/+download
[23:41] <joh> Still won't work though
[23:41] <joh> https://launchpad.net/alarm-clock/+download http://launchpad.net/alarm-clock/trunk/(.*)/+download/alarm-clock-(.+).tar.gz
[23:42] <Nafallo> hmmm
[23:43] <norsetto> gotta go, g'night all
[23:43] <Nafallo> not in Ubuntu yet it seems :-/
[23:47] <ajmitch> Nafallo: ?
[23:48] <Nafallo> ajmitch: alarm-clock :-P
[23:48] <Nafallo> ajmitch: looks like something I could have use for :-)
[23:48] <ajmitch> Nafallo: because that's what joh is trying to get into ubuntu? :)
[23:48] <Nafallo> ajmitch: yea, thought so :-)
[23:49] <Nafallo> ajmitch: hopefully it's a quick process ;-)
[23:49] <RAOF> joh: I've got a correct LP watch file in the gnome-do package.
[23:50] <RAOF> joh: Although maybe not in Ubuntu's gnome-do package, I forget.  LP seems to have moved stuff around semi-recently.
[23:50] <RAOF> joh: You can find a working example in pkg-cli-apps SVN in the gnome-do packaging.
[23:51] <joh> RAOF: Thanks, just got it working though :) Had to escape the + in +download
[23:51] <RAOF> Yup.  Otherwise that means "one or more of the previous character" :)
[23:51] <joh> Mhm :-)
[23:51] <RAOF> Technicaly, s/character/expression/
[23:56] <joh> Great, works now :-)