[00:04] <Andre_Gondim> @now recife
[00:11] <wobblywu> so, I managed to miss the rest of the meeting, didn't I?
[00:11] <bascule> it was all OK in the end wobblywu
[00:12] <bascule> nothing catastrophic :)
[00:50]  * mneptok got waylaid by paying customers
[00:52] <mneptok> nighty, folks. back to the treadmill!
[01:15] <gnomefreak> @now new_york
[01:36] <IdleOne> evening all sorry I am late
[01:37] <IdleOne> maybe I'm not
[01:37] <MenZa> Maybe the meeting's over. :)
[01:38] <IdleOne> heh maybe. is it?
[01:38] <MenZa> The CC-meeting? Yes.
[01:38] <IdleOne> are you serious
[01:39] <IdleOne> omg
[01:39] <IdleOne> all day I have been waiting and I missed it :/
[01:39] <gnomefreak> its been over for over an hour
[01:39] <IdleOne> gnomefreak: I was sure it was for 8:30 eastern time
[01:40] <MenZa> Turns out it wasn't.
[01:40] <gnomefreak> no 7pm EST
[01:40] <MenZa> @now EST
[01:40] <gnomefreak> no thats not right either
[01:40] <gnomefreak> more like 5 EST maybe
[01:40] <MenZa> lol
[01:40] <MenZa> Or four
[01:40] <IdleOne> it's 2040 now
[01:40] <gnomefreak> maybe 4 but i think 5 :(
[01:41]  * MenZa nods
[01:41] <gnomefreak> i was there if that counts
[01:41] <ogra> IdleOne, really? then i'm already over 70 years old now, damend, time flies
[01:41] <IdleOne> lol
[01:41] <MenZa> :D
[01:41] <IdleOne> gnomefreak: is the log for todays meeting up yet?
[01:42] <gnomefreak> IdleOne: not sure since we lost the secritary
[01:42] <gnomefreak> yes that isnt spelled right but you get the hint :)
[01:43] <IdleOne> yeah
[01:47] <nalioth> gnomefreak: it was 5pm EST
[01:47] <gnomefreak> nalioth: thanks
[01:47] <nalioth> gnomefreak: it was 4PM CST
[01:47] <nalioth> on the wiki page, there is a link to tell you what time it is gonna be where you live
[01:56] <IdleOne> nalioth: or gnome or anybody else could you please help me to find the link for when the US-council is meeting next ?
[01:56] <IdleOne> gnomefreak*
[01:57] <gnomefreak> thats a bit harder but CC said they are gonna get everyone where they need to go
[01:58] <IdleOne> so I guess I can expect an email few days before the neeting from The fridge?
[01:58] <IdleOne> meeting
[01:59] <gnomefreak> its not on the page i thought it was
[02:00] <IdleOne> yeah thought so also but figured I wuld ask in case I was not seeing something
[02:00] <gnomefreak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
[02:00] <gnomefreak> IdleOne: ^^^
[02:00] <IdleOne> ty
[02:00] <gnomefreak> anytime
[02:02] <IdleOne> ok that is where I add myself but there are no dates lol
[02:02] <IdleOne> for the next meeting
[02:03] <gnomefreak> IdleOne: maybe email them and find out or ping one of the council members
[02:04] <IdleOne> will do
[02:04] <gnomefreak> IdleOne: nixternal is most likely the easies to reach
[02:05] <gnomefreak> or mikeB
[02:05] <IdleOne> thanks for the info :)
[02:07] <emma> IdleOne, here's a little Ubuntu tip I did for myself --- I set my clock on the Gnome pannel to use UTC :)
[02:07] <IdleOne> emma: hehe yeah I might have to do that also but then I'll end up late for work everyday or early
[02:09] <emma> hehehe
[02:11] <Pretto> gnomefreak, the decision to change how new member will be aproved was made today?
[02:11] <gnomefreak> Pretto: it was made a while ago its finished being set up today IIRC
[02:12] <Pretto> gnomefreak, ok.. i see.. i got a little frustrated with that decision made just in time
[02:16] <Pretto> i was just couting the days left
[02:25] <IdleOne> well Im off . thanks for the help gnomefreak emma and nalioth
[02:25] <IdleOne> oh MenZa you too :)
[02:25] <emma> welcome IdleOne see you around.
[06:39] <nickellery> @now PST
[06:39] <nickellery> @now Vancouver
[06:56] <TheMuso> Greetings folks.
[06:56]  * ArneGoetje waves
[06:57] <cjwatson> good morning Vietnam
[06:57] <asac> welcome
[06:57] <james_w> morning all
[06:57] <evand> heh, 'morning
[06:58] <cjwatson> slangasek may not make it; he was ill earlier
[06:59]  * ogra puts matches under the eyelids
[06:59] <TheMuso> Ouch.
[06:59] <cjwatson> bryce,calc,doko_: around?
[07:00] <TheMuso> That would keep my eyes closed I think.
[07:00] <ogra> well, they stay open that way without effort :)
[07:00] <doko_> good mornign
[07:01] <cjwatson> slangasek: ah, wasn't really expecting you; feeling better?
[07:01] <slangasek> cjwatson: better, though tired :)
[07:02] <cjwatson> so, hello everyone; as usual my mail has not yet caught up overnight, so I'm missing any late agenda items anyone sent
[07:02] <cjwatson> the main thing I wanted to bring up was intrepid merges
[07:03] <cjwatson> those on the 8.04.1 team are not expected to be spending time on intrepid as well, so (unless they're feeling keen beyond the call of duty) people will need to take over their merges
[07:03] <cjwatson> http://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html - I've already agreed with Evan that I'll sort out his since they're mostly d-i
[07:04] <evand> thanks again for that.
[07:04] <cjwatson> asac,TheMuso,slangasek: are you guys going to want assistance here, and/or do you have any special comments on particular packages?
[07:04]  * calc here
[07:04]  * calc was looking in another window
[07:05] <slangasek> I expect that assistance will be welcome, 8.04.1 is definitely keeping me occupied at present
[07:05] <slangasek> no comments on specific packages at the moment
[07:05] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Well most of my merges are a11y stack related, which I can only partly do atm due to broken packages on the buildds. I've done espeak which was simple. I'd be happy if othes would look into my other merges, mdadm, openssl. I think thats about it for main.
[07:05] <asac> the amount of merges listed for me looks still handlable for me
[07:06] <TheMuso> cjwatson: However the a11y merges are very quick and easy, so I'm happy to do them.
[07:06] <cjwatson> ok
[07:06] <asac> well ... xorg-server might wanna go back to bryce ;)
[07:06] <cjwatson> asac: I thought that probably went without saying ;-)
[07:06]  * ogra doesnt have many merges and could take some if ltsp is done (which will be a bit time cnsuming due to total redesign of the source)
[07:07] <cjwatson> ogra: perhaps you could take mdadm and openssl for Luke then
[07:07] <ogra> sure
[07:07] <TheMuso> ogra: re mdadm, I had a glance last night, and it has a gcc 4.3 issue that needs solving, preferably upstream first I suspect.
[07:07] <ogra> oki
[07:07] <cjwatson> Steve has a good pile of merges of completely unimportant packages like coreutils
[07:08] <cjwatson> oh, it just occurred to me that not everyone has done this before
[07:08] <cjwatson> (maybe)
[07:09] <cjwatson> briefly, obviously we have to merge from Debian each cycle, and we assign this task to people by default on a who-touched-it-last basis, hence merges.ubuntu.com. However, the regular protocol is that if you want to do a merge you talk to whoever's listed on that page and ask (for synchronisation purposes), and anyone may choose to hand off a merge to any other developer if they choose
[07:10] <doko> hmm, still having some hardy stuff as well, so it may be difficult to take additional ones. trying ...
[07:10] <cjwatson> doko: (what's on your hardy list?)
[07:10] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Since my hands only seem to be full with sound for .1 atm, as I said in my report, I'm looking at dmraid bits, so that there is material for discussion at UDS. After that, I will focus on .1 moreso.
[07:11] <doko> working gcc-3.*-doc fixes, python, python-central, bash, openjdk, sun-java*
[07:11] <cjwatson> traditionally doko ends up touched-it-last for the entire archive due to having uploaded lots of things for toolchain changes
[07:12] <cjwatson> TheMuso: ok, up to Steve to keep you busy there
[07:12] <asac> TheMuso: what is the likelyhood that we can find something for the infamous bug 192888 ?
[07:13] <TheMuso> asac: Daniel and I are playing with using dmix with pulseaudio, however for some weird reason, this affects pulseaudio's esd compatibility code, relating to sample caching and playback.
[07:13] <TheMuso> asac: Nothign more at this stage.
[07:13] <ogra> asac, not nspluginwrapper ? i thought i saw a discussion with crimsun to change it
[07:13] <asac> ok ... yes, nspluginwrapper on i386 is certainly an option. not sure if its suitable for 8.04.1
[07:14] <asac> but if nothing else works we should consider this
[07:14] <ogra> yeah
[07:14] <ogra> even though its very intrusive from a package change view i think its the sanest option
[07:14] <cjwatson> I like the idea of nspluginwrapper, though it's kind of untried on i386 (at least in our context) isn't it?
[07:14] <asac> cjwatson: fedora does it ... untested for us
[07:15] <ogra> fedora defaults to it, but indeed it wasnt much tested for us
[07:15] <asac> we can switch that soonish in intrepid and learn from experience
[07:15] <ogra> snap
[07:15] <cjwatson> yeah, hence the parenthesis
[07:15] <cjwatson> unfortunately I don't think we'll get a lot of user testing on intrepid right now
[07:15] <TheMuso> Any instructions anywhere on how to do it manually, so I can test locally?
[07:16] <cjwatson> anyway, merge state was my only agenda item; any other business (after flash)?
[07:16] <asac> TheMuso: well ... you have to build nspluginwrapper on i386 ... once thats done you just need to enable the postinst snipped in flashplugin-nonfree for i386 too
[07:16] <asac> we can take a look at this later today
[07:16] <asac> (if you are still available?)
[07:17] <TheMuso> asac: Ok, I'll probably be off for the evening in a while, but will look tomorrow morning.
[07:17] <cjwatson> flashplugin-nonfree just tests whether /usr/bin/nspluginwrapper exists
[07:17] <TheMuso> Right.
[07:17] <cjwatson> although you probably need to cause it to be reconfigured
[07:17] <asac> oh right. then you just need to build it :)
[07:17] <ogra> well, what about all the other plugins ?
[07:17] <asac> ogra: the other plugins don't crash that much
[07:18] <ogra> no, but do they clash ?
[07:18] <asac> well ... some do. but its managable. but we can give it a try; certainly nothing for hardy updates
[07:18] <ogra> if npluginwrapper is loaded it might hog something the others need ...
[07:18] <ogra> *ns
[07:21] <asac> personally, i would prefer to only use nspluginwrapper to shield ffox from nonfree plugins that we cannot fix. but that might just be me.
[07:21] <asac> ogra: does fedora use it for everything?
[07:22] <ogra> afaik yes
[07:22] <ogra> i can ask warren later tonight if US eastcoast is up
[07:23] <asac> ogra: yes, that would be great.
[07:23] <TheMuso> Hrm interesting. Nspluginwrapper is only being built for amd64.
[07:23] <asac> TheMuso: yes. thats what i ment :)
[07:24] <TheMuso> asac: Right, I thought you meant it was available for i386 and amd64, but flashplugin-nonfree only uses it on amd64.
[07:25] <ogra> is it used for everything in amd64 for us ?
[07:25] <asac> ogra: no only to bridge 64-bit world to 32-bit => nonfree only
[07:25] <cjwatson> historically it was a 64->32-bit shim - it's only more recently that it was mooted as a way to protect firefox from runaway plugins as well, AIUI
[07:25] <ogra> ah
[07:26] <asac> note that nspluginwrapper only supports basic npp plugins; e.g. no totem (xpcom), no java
[07:26] <doko> and it doesn't work for the javaplugin
[07:27] <cjwatson> ok, doesn't sound like there's any other business other than nspluginwrapper/flash/hardy
[07:27] <cjwatson> going once
[07:27] <cjwatson> going twice
[07:28] <cjwatson> adjourned; thanks all
[07:28] <asac> thanks
[07:28] <evand> thanks
[07:28] <TheMuso> Thanks.
[07:28] <ogra> thanks
[07:28] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[07:28] <cjwatson> rest -> #ubuntu-devel
[07:28] <slangasek> thanks!
[07:29] <calc> thanks!
[07:30] <james_w> thanks all
[08:38]  * Hobbsee reads the CC log, with interest.
[08:56] <Hobbsee> glad to see it's relatively balanced, although misses some fairly important points (like that apologies for certain comments have been made)
[08:57] <Hobbsee> Daviey: the reason she doesn't get unbanned, after saying that she won't spam anymore, is that she consistently says that she's not spamming, when, by all other accounts, she is.
[08:58] <Hobbsee> while she continues to apparently not understand what spamming is, we have no confidence in her assurances that she'll actually stop.
[08:58] <Daviey> "by all other accounts" - and yet these weren't provided last night
[08:58] <Hobbsee> well, it was at 7am local time, and i had late night work.
[08:59] <Hobbsee> im' not sure why the entire wiki documentation wasn't provided.
[08:59] <Hobbsee> OTOH, it was not asking the CC to deal with emma herself, so that's probably why.
[08:59] <Daviey> meh
[09:12] <\sh> Hobbsee, the whole discussion is so "childish"
[09:12] <Hobbsee> \sh: i know.  I would have expected resolution on a freenode level, as this has been happening in multiple namespaces, far prior to this.
[09:13] <Hobbsee> \sh: as it is, there actually is no resolution, beyond enforcing channel bans, because the users can always appeal to the CC.  *shrug*.
[09:13] <Hobbsee> \sh: resolution on how to make the op team work better is, of course, useful.
[09:14] <Hobbsee> \sh: short of the CC deciding, and sabdfl deciding, there is actually no, final, no-more-appeals resolution :(
[09:14] <Hobbsee> which leads to childishness.
[09:16] <\sh> Hobbsee, it looks like that we are running into a dead end with all those rules ... we had the 10 commandments spread by moses directly from the hand of the almighty...and now we produced hundreds of thousands rules around them and pushing more stupidity towards others...oh well
[09:16] <Hobbsee> \sh: i know.  there's actually some progress on making -offtopic more subjective, and not being a list of rules of !o4o.  self-moderating, if you will.
[09:21] <emma>  \sh -- I agree with you that it is childish and I hope that as a result of this meeting there will be less childish behavior. I do not appreciate finding my name highlighted in here after the meeting is over, by someone who has been one of the greatest sources of all the antagonism referenced in the meeting itself.
[09:23] <Hobbsee> (and apologies for not making what was expected to be a 6am local time meeting, and so hearby responding now.  sigh)
[09:23]  * Hobbsee assumes emma will display proof, too.
[09:25] <Daviey> so, keep pushing in hope you do?
[09:26] <Hobbsee> nah.  i have little time for this - that's only why i read the backscroll, and made a fwe comments after that.
[09:26]  * Hobbsee can ignore her in most places.
[09:27] <Daviey> *sigh*
[09:30] <\sh> emma, actually it has nothing to do with you...I'm referencing to general issues...
[09:32] <emma>  \sh yes, understood. You are not the one who hightlighted me. But the fact we can all tell that you were talking about general issues, and nevertheless the the opportunity was seized by someone to mention me, is very telling.
[09:33]  * Hobbsee blinks.
[09:33] <Hobbsee> "Thou shalt not discuss anything in the meeting, if it highlights emma"
[09:33] <Hobbsee> right then.
[09:33]  * Hobbsee dumps emma on /ignore
[09:33] <Hobbsee> more to the point, *more* ignore.
[09:42] <Daviey> Hobbsee: why can't you just stop it?
[11:18] <pochu> @schedule
[11:57] <bimberi> pochu: Thankyou for the python packaging session at UOW.  I've been reading through it - filling the gaping holes in my knowledge :)
[12:05] <pochu> bimberi: I'm glad it was useful!
[12:06] <bimberi> pochu: Very.  Plus someone's turned it into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python
[12:10] <pochu> yeah I know, he asked me where to put the tutorial and I told him that was a nice place ;)
[12:10] <bimberi> :)
[16:57] <pedro_> hello
[16:58] <heno> Hi pedro_
[16:58] <pedro_> hey heno, cgregan
[16:59] <cgregan> Hello!
[16:59] <heno> bdmurray, ogasawara: ping?
[16:59] <ogasawara> oops, I'm here
[17:00] <james_w> hi all. Is there an agenda for the meeting?
[17:00] <heno> james_w: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
[17:00] <james_w> thanks
[17:00] <bdmurray> me too
[17:00] <heno> #startmeeting
[17:01] <heno> ... :( no bot
[17:01] <james_w> I have something small to mention related to last week's meeting if you would give me a minute or two at the end.
[17:01] <heno> As stated the agenda is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
[17:01] <heno> james_w: sure
[17:02] <heno> topic: UDS topics - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/UdsPrague
[17:02] <heno> There are still a few open slots in the schedule
[17:02] <heno> so please suggest topics
[17:02] <heno> (esp. if you will be present)
[17:03] <ogasawara> heno:  can we just add suggestions to the wiki and you'll work out the scheduling?
[17:04]  * stgraber waves
[17:04] <heno> I'll add a session about coherence in the use of LP as dholbach suggested
[17:04] <heno> hey stgraber
[17:04] <heno> ogasawara: it helps if you email me a reminder too
[17:05] <ogasawara> heno: ok will do, thanks.
[17:05] <heno> we can also schedule topics quite informally for FOSSCamp
[17:05] <stgraber> QA Tracker / QA Portal and Ubuntu Brainstorm stuff will have to be done at FOSSCamp
[17:06] <stgraber> also the Ubuntu package website stuff mvo asked for
[17:06] <heno> indeed. in fact we should split up that list in two parts
[17:06] <heno> mvo: will you be at FOSSCamp?
[17:06] <stgraber> he'll
[17:07] <heno> ok, thanks :)
[17:07] <heno> next
[17:07] <stgraber> jcastro sent the full list of attendees yesterday
[17:07] <heno> Mobile testing - the UME team could use some help with testing.
[17:08] <heno> I've sent an appeal to planet http://blog.omma.net/?p=8
[17:08] <pedro_> I've just added one topic
[17:08] <mvo> I played with the mobile stuff a bit and a big problem seems to be that test images are hard to find (and/or not available)
[17:08] <heno> pedro_: great, thanks
[17:08]  * mvo will be at fosscamp
[17:09] <cgregan> The ones we are worried about are here: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/moblin/hardy/menlow/
[17:09] <heno> mvo: are these no good http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/moblin/hardy/menlow ?
[17:10] <heno> It's linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UMEinstall but could perhaps be more prominent?
[17:10] <cgregan> I could also link from Project Page in LP?
[17:10] <mvo> will that work on any hardware ? I heard (maybe wrong) that it requires recent intel chiptsets
[17:11] <cgregan> Unless you have a Samsung Q1 you will need to use Xephyr
[17:11]  * mvo nods
[17:11] <cgregan> The steps are in the wiki
[17:12] <mvo> I wonder if it would be possible to produce images that can be booted into via e.g. kvm and that are ready made - so that a test would only require a system with kvm and a download.
[17:12] <mvo> but this is probably out of scope for now (and for this meeting) :)
[17:12] <cgregan> lool is actually working on that
[17:12] <heno> It is a good point actually
[17:13] <mvo> it just crosssed my mind today when I setup a environement to test some hildon stuff
[17:13] <heno> A direct kvm image is proving tricky but what about a barebones ubuntu system + xephyr in full screen mode as a kvm image?
[17:14] <mvo> yeah, I talked to him about it. I think it would be a great help already to just have a manually build kvm image (with ubuntu-vm-builder) so that people can quickly port stuff to hildon/mobile (or just check what it looks like)
[17:14] <cgregan> I agree
[17:14] <jcastro> yes I was just going to say a flag in ubuntu-vm-builder would be great
[17:14] <mvo> that sounds fine as well
[17:14] <mvo> (what are the tricky bits with a direct kvm image? sorry I'm a bit ignorant about the finer details)
[17:15] <cgregan> We want to ditch Xephyr as soon as possible since you run as root
[17:15] <mvo> lpia support was added to it (u-m-b) by lool and is in bzr already
[17:15] <heno> but root in a dedicated vm is not so bad (as a short term testing alternative anyway)
[17:16] <cgregan> heno: I agree, but since you need MIC to manage the images anyway and Xephyr is built in..we did not create a VM with Xephyr
[17:17] <cgregan> It is possible though
[17:17] <mvo> could we plug a additional backend to the m-i-c so that it produces kvm images as a additional "device" ?
[17:18] <heno> (MIC = Moblin Image Creator, btw)
[17:18] <cgregan> mvo: I think that is what lool is working on...a script that can be run to kvm-ize a UME build
[17:19] <cgregan> We also want to ditch MIC as soon as we can too...so very little is being integrated or changed there
[17:20] <cgregan> heno: thanks..forgot not all have heard of this thing! :-)
[17:20] <heno> I'll have a go a creating a bastardised Xephyr based VM image
[17:20] <heno> ok, next
[17:21] <heno> The next meeting would normally be next Wednesday
[17:21] <heno> but several of us will be travelling
[17:21] <heno> can we move it to Tuesday same time?
[17:22] <heno> or 16.00 UTC even?
[17:22] <pedro_> 1900 UTC right?
[17:22] <pedro_> both are ok for me
[17:22] <heno> either works for me
[17:22] <stgraber> date and time work for me
[17:22] <heno> slight preference for 16.00 perhaps
[17:22] <ogasawara> I'd prefer 16.00 if possible
[17:23] <bdmurray> 1600 is fine here
[17:23] <stgraber> ok, so Tuesday 16:00 ?
[17:23] <pedro_> let's go for it then ;-)
[17:23] <heno> great!
[17:23] <cgregan> heno: we would run over our talk, but otherwise is ok
[17:23] <heno> I'll mail the list about the change
[17:23] <pedro_> ok I'm updating the wiki page now
[17:23] <heno> cgregan: we can perhaps move that
[17:24] <cgregan> Sure...anytime after 1600 is good
[17:24] <heno> I'm actually not really at work on Tuesday anyway
[17:24] <heno> james_w: can we have your topic?
[17:24] <james_w> sure, it's a quick one.
[17:25] <james_w> I saw at the last meeting you were outlining some new QA Team Roles.
[17:25] <james_w> I mentioned these to someone, and she pointed out that the forums feedback coordinator role had a lot of overlap with the mission of the forum ambassadors
[17:26] <james_w> she said the later project is not that active currently, but it may be somewhere to find interested people.
[17:27] <heno> james_w: indeed. I think the ambassadors project could benefit from well-focused missions like this one
[17:27] <heno> I think one reason it didn't take root was that it was too broad
[17:28] <james_w> cool, I just wanted to bring it up. Thanks for your time.
[17:28] <heno> I'll mention it for a few people I know who are involved in the ambassadors project
[17:28] <heno> thanks james_w
[17:28] <heno> any other topics?
[17:29] <stgraber> nope
[17:29] <heno> right, thanks everyone!
[17:29] <pedro_> thanks
[17:29] <heno> #endmeeting
[17:29] <stgraber> thanks
[20:30] <Pretto> emma, what theme do you use in your ubuntu?
[21:56] <zul> evening
[21:57] <nijaba> o/
[21:57] <sommer> yo
[21:57]  * owh opens bleary eyes.
[21:58] <dendrobates> \o
[21:58] <jdstrand>  \o

[21:59] <soren> o/
[21:59] <nealmcb> o/
[22:00] <mathiaz> hello guys ! :)
[22:00] <ivoks> halloo, moelltaler gletschar...
[22:00] <ivoks> :D
[22:00] <nealmcb> I'd say the right hands win.  or are those left hands?
[22:00] <soren> Mine's a stick.
[22:01] <mathiaz> Let's get started now that ubottu updated the topic
[22:01] <mathiaz> today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[22:01] <nealmcb> mootbot isn't back up yet
[22:01] <jdstrand> that's my right hand-- I'm facing you
[22:01] <mathiaz> nealmcb: nope - we'll have to live without him for a while :(
[22:02] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[22:02] <mathiaz> Previous meeting logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080430
[22:03] <mathiaz> There was no action :D
[22:03] <ivoks> :)
[22:04] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Virtualization Meta Packages
[22:04] <owh> mathiaz: I recall an action you had, but I cannot recall what it was.
[22:04] <mathiaz> kirkland: what's your brand new ideea ?
[22:05] <kirkland> mathiaz: so...
[22:05] <kirkland> mathiaz: basically create a meta package that requires the virtualization packages necessary to get up an Ubuntu virt-host into a useful state
[22:05] <kirkland> mathiaz: we have a handful of documentation right now that details the steps to do so
[22:05] <nealmcb> no gui?
[22:06] <kirkland> mathiaz: but in the grand spirit of Ubuntu making difficult Linuxy things easier, this meta package helps things along
[22:06] <soren> And no ponies, either.
[22:06] <kirkland> I have test packages available in my PPA
[22:06] <kirkland> right now, we're debating the most appropriate name of it
[22:06] <kirkland> right now, there are ubuntu-virt and ubuntu-virt-extras
[22:06] <mathiaz> kirkland: is virt-manager included ?
[22:06] <kirkland> ubuntu-virt being just stuff in main, ubuntu-virt-extras += universe packages
[22:07] <kirkland> mathiaz: yes, ubuntu-virt right now is (virt-manager, kvm, libvirtd)
[22:07] <kirkland> -extras adds stuff like virt-viewer
[22:07] <kirkland> qemu, etc.
[22:07] <mathiaz> kirkland: I'm thinking about a server that one would like to turn into a virtualization host
[22:07] <kirkland> so i'm polling the server team here for two things
[22:07] <kirkland> a) confirmation/information on what packages should be included
[22:07] <kirkland> b) the most applicable name
[22:08] <mathiaz> kirkland: virt-manager requires a desktop IIUC
[22:08] <kirkland> dendrobates suggested ubuntu-virt-host and ubuntu-virt-host-extras, and I tend to prefer those,  but soren and jdstrand like the shorter names
[22:08] <zul> mathiaz: i thought it didnt
[22:08] <kirkland> mathiaz: i think it pulls some X libraries, yes, but not the whole desktop
[22:08] <jdstrand> 'host' doesn't mean anything to me *shrug*
[22:08] <nealmcb> ubuntu-virt-dev for the gui stuff?
[22:08] <kirkland> mathiaz: I *think* you can ssh -X and run virt-manager
[22:08] <nealmcb> probably not....
[22:09] <nealmcb> ubuntu-virt-build?
[22:09] <mathiaz> kirkland: well - virt-manager support qemu+ssh
[22:09] <nealmcb> but requires x11 libraries?
[22:09] <kirkland> to me the key is the ability to create/delete/manage/host virtual machines
[22:09] <mathiaz> kirkland: that's how I run it here - I have a server that only has kvm and libvirt
[22:09] <nijaba> kirkland: I think we would need an ubuntu-virt-client, another ubuntu-virt-server
[22:09]  * nealmcb would prefer offhand that ubuntu-virt just be what you need to run stuff, and have gui stuff on top of that
[22:09] <mathiaz> kirkland: and then use virt-manager on my laptop to manage the vms
[22:09] <kirkland> one package for the bare minimum to do that.  a second package with add-on niceties
[22:09] <nealmcb> client! yeah
[22:10] <owh> Why are we referring to it as "virt", as in ubuntu-virt, rather than ubuntu-vm?
[22:10] <mathiaz> kirkland: would it make sense to have a -gui package to pull in the gui part ?
[22:10] <kirkland> mathiaz: yes, perhaps
[22:10] <nijaba> owh: vm= virtual machine, not virtualization server
[22:11] <nijaba> mathiaz: that's what I meant with ubuntu-virt-client
[22:11] <owh> nijaba: I realise that, but the thing makes virtual machines does it not?
[22:11] <owh> nijaba: Originally the script was ubuntu-jeos-builder.
[22:11] <kirkland> mathiaz: i find the most useful combination to me (kvm, libvirt-bin, virt-manager) ...  what would you call that?
[22:12] <mathiaz> owh: we're talking about kvm and libvirt
[22:12] <kirkland> note that i mainly use that on my desktop machines
[22:12] <mathiaz> owh: not ubuntu-vm-builder
[22:12] <jdstrand> kirkland: -virt ;)
[22:12] <nealmcb> perhaps -gui would be better for the gui stuff, and -client can be used if necessary for cli/api client stuff
[22:12] <nijaba> owh: ubutu-vm-builder and virt-install do, yes (as well as part of virt-manager
[22:12] <jdstrand> there aren't that many packages
[22:12] <mathiaz> kirkland: in my own use case, I'm only using kvm+libvirt-bin on my server
[22:13] <nijaba> kirkland: same as mathiaz here
[22:13] <nijaba> kirkland: and all DC client will do the same
[22:13] <nijaba> kirkland: remeber, no GUI on server by default
[22:13] <mathiaz> kirkland: so I'd have ubuntu-virt for kvm+libvirt, which is what is needed to turn a server into a system that can provide vms
[22:13] <kirkland> nijaba: i understand
[22:13] <mathiaz> kirkland: and then ubuntu-virt-gui or -client to manage the vms
[22:14] <jdstrand> what about moving virt-manager to -extras?
[22:14] <kirkland> mathiaz: hmm, i think that's just virt-manager though
[22:14] <soren> ubuntu-virt-node vs. ubuntu-virt-management?
[22:14] <mathiaz> kirkland: yes - maybe that's enough then
[22:14] <nijaba> soren: not bad
[22:14] <kirkland> soren: define ^
[22:14] <soren> Or mgmt for short.
[22:14] <soren> -node is kvm + libvirt-bin.
[22:15] <soren> +ssh.
[22:15] <jdstrand> 'node' is unclear-- node has a singular connotation to me
[22:15] <soren> -mgmt is libvirt-bin (to get virsh) and virt-manager.
[22:15] <jdstrand> whereas a server could have a gajillion vms
[22:15] <dendrobates> I think it important that the name clearly represent what it is.  I think the -host or -server helps that.
[22:15] <kirkland> jdstrand: soren: okay, i like this, but i agree that -node is ambiguous
[22:15] <kirkland> i'd suggest -host or -server
[22:15] <soren> Really?
[22:16] <soren> I have one virtualisation node on which I run 27 vm's.
[22:16] <soren> That makes sense in my book. I'm not insistant on it, though. At all.
[22:16] <kirkland> :-)  I'd say you have one "virtualisation SERVER  on which you run 27 vm's"
[22:16] <soren> It's never struck me as ambiguous.
[22:16] <dendrobates> hmm node? it sounds a bit jargony.
[22:17] <nijaba> so ubuntu-virt-server and ubuntu-virt-mgmt?
[22:17] <kirkland> okay, votes between ubuntu-virt-server and ubuntu-virt-host where either = (kvm, libvirt-bin, openssh-server) ?
[22:17] <soren> Maybe I'm infected with the clustering terminology.
[22:17] <nealmcb> of course a vm can be a whole network with servers and networks....
[22:17] <owh> +1 ubuntu-virt-host
[22:17] <mathiaz> kirkland: ubuntu-virt-host +!
[22:17] <mathiaz> kirkland: ubuntu-virt-host +1
[22:18] <owh> mathiaz: The first vote doesn't count, but is it a dimple?
[22:18] <kirkland> okay, and the other is ubuntu-virt-mgmt ?
[22:18] <soren> -server +1
[22:18] <nijaba> kirkland: ubuntu-virt-server +1
[22:18] <sommer> ubuntu-virt-server +1
[22:18] <jdstrand> -mgmt +1
[22:18] <nealmcb> -host +1
[22:18] <ivoks> a tie :)
[22:18] <dendrobates> -server +1
[22:18] <ivoks> -server +1
[22:18] <soren> I'm not sure where ubuntu-vm-builder fits in, though.
[22:18] <sommer> ubuntu-virt-creator ? :)
[22:18]  * owh is also unsure.
[22:18] <kirkland> soren: i was going to put that in -extras
[22:18] <jdstrand> does this mean no -extras for universe stuff?
[22:18] <soren> kirkland: Ah, good. :)
[22:19] <jdstrand> ok
[22:19] <nealmcb> hosting runs things, servers serve things (like download your vms from my server...)
[22:19] <nealmcb> but it is all hopelessly ambiguous :-)
[22:19]  * owh changes vote from host to server
[22:19] <soren> I'm hosting server vm's on my cluster nodes.
[22:19] <soren> It's great.
[22:19] <jdstrand> unless you're like me, and have your vms on the local machine
[22:19] <kirkland> +1 from me for ubuntu-virt-server
[22:19] <kirkland> another poll now, ubuntu-virt-mgmt vs ubuntu-virt-extras ?
[22:19] <mathiaz> Ok - so it seems ubuntu-virt-server is the prefered choice
[22:20] <ivoks> we have -server for everything else
[22:20] <ivoks> people will understand
[22:20] <nijaba> I think it wold be neet to have a ubuntu-virt-full that is -server + -mgmt for the desktop guys
[22:20] <ivoks> bringing in -host, which is uniq is... 'what's that all about?'
[22:20] <mathiaz> kirkland: -mgmt +!
[22:20]  * nealmcb goes with the flow
[22:21] <owh> -extras +1 (to stay consistent with the other names)
[22:21] <nijaba> kirkland: what is in -extra?
[22:21] <nealmcb> nijaba: how about -desktop?  full seems more ambiguous
[22:21] <kirkland> nijaba: virt-manager, ubuntu-vm-builder, qemu, virt-viewer, kqemu (perhaps) ... other goodness in universe
[22:22]  * nealmcb is cautious about too much stuff in -extras
[22:22] <nijaba> kirkland: isn't that what -mgmt is supposed to be?
[22:22] <owh> nealmcb: That has too many connotations with ubuntu-desktop.
[22:22] <nijaba> and u-v-b should be in -server (or not, since not in main)
[22:22] <jdstrand> how is qemu 'mgmt'?
[22:23] <kirkland> nijaba: i was suggesting either -mgmt or -extras ...  perhaps we should split that into 3?
[22:23] <ivoks> jdstrand: how about kqemu? :)
[22:23] <nijaba> and qemu should be both in -server and mgmt
[22:23] <jdstrand> ivoks: exactly
[22:23] <nealmcb> nijaba: I'd think u-v-builder would be part of the management stuff offhand
[22:23] <kirkland> nijaba: qemu is universe
[22:23] <jdstrand> nijaba: that puts -server in universe then
[22:23] <kirkland> nijaba: kvm includes a subset of qemu code (enough)
[22:23] <nijaba> jdstrand: right
[22:23]  * nijaba hides
[22:24] <jdstrand> heh
[22:24] <ivoks> -addons
[22:24] <kirkland> okay, so then we'll have a total of 3 meta packages built from the same source.....
[22:24] <owh> ivoks: They're hardly addons, they're needed to get started :)
[22:24] <kirkland> ubuntu-virt-server, ubuntu-virt-mgmt, ubuntu-virt-extras
[22:24] <mathiaz> kirkland: works for me
[22:24] <mathiaz> Let's move on
[22:25] <kirkland> with ubuntu-virt-server being server-only, non-gui, packages for hosting vm's
[22:25] <kirkland> and in main
[22:25] <jdstrand> kirkland: I like the idea, but -mgmt seems to then only contain virt-manager...
[22:25] <mathiaz> kirkland: could you upload these meta-package to your PPA and then ask for feedback on the ubuntu-server ml  ?
[22:25] <kirkland> mathiaz: you bet.
[22:26] <kirkland> mathiaz: i'll build against Hardy (since most people still running that) and Intrepid too
[22:26] <mathiaz> kirkland: ok.
[22:26] <mathiaz> kirkland: but the meta-package won't make it hardy
[22:26] <kirkland> mathiaz: i understand this
[22:27] <mathiaz> kirkland: great
[22:27] <mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to upload new meta-package for ubuntu virtualization things and ask for feedback on ubuntu-server@l.u.c
[22:27] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Merges
[22:28] <mathiaz> As you may have noticed, intrepid is open for business
[22:28] <soren> Wooh!
[22:28] <ivoks> what's that? :)
[22:28] <soren> :)
[22:28] <ivoks> a joke, a joke...
[22:28] <mathiaz> There is a huge stack of packages from debian waiting to be merged
[22:29] <mathiaz> I'd add that this is probably the best time to get started in packaging
[22:29] <soren> "merged" means that in hardy, we took the package from Debian and changed it somehow, and now Debian has a new version and we need to merge the two change sets.
[22:29] <mathiaz> I'd like to know if any has a list of easy merges
[22:29] <mathiaz> /any/anyone/
[22:29] <soren> *cough* dpkg *cough*
[22:29] <soren> :)
[22:30] <owh> mathiaz: Microsoft and Yahoo?
[22:30] <zul> *cough* mysql *cough*
[22:30] <ivoks> i'm sure bacula won't be the easy one... :/
[22:30] <mathiaz> so that we can hand them to people that want to start packaging.
[22:30] <zul> ivoks: already done :)
[22:30] <ivoks> :]
[22:31] <soren> Wow.. I hardly have any left. :(
[22:31] <soren> Maybe only like 20 or so.
[22:31] <soren> Well, the basic rule is:
[22:31] <kirkland> owh: LoL  :-)
[22:32] <soren> Look at either: http://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html or http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html and find things that look interesting.
[22:32] <soren> ..and poke the person named there.
[22:32] <soren> ask them if they're working on it already.
[22:32] <soren> If not, dig in :)
[22:33] <mathiaz> soren: it's sugested to contact the last uploader before doing a merge - wouldn't the laste merger make more sense ?
[22:33] <sommer> cool
[22:33] <soren> mathiaz: It's hard to say anything in general about it.
[22:33] <soren> mathiaz: The last uploader will usually know who to talk to.
[22:33] <soren> ..so that's probably fine.
[22:34] <mathiaz> soren: well - or look into the changelog
[22:34] <mathiaz> soren: to figure out what the last uploader did
[22:34] <owh> Is there any documentation to actually do the merge, that is, something to help new people get started?
[22:35] <zul> owh: check the wiki
[22:35] <nealmcb> owh: and the recent open week logs
[22:35] <soren> owh: The packaging guide is a good starting point, I believe.
[22:35] <mathiaz> owh: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
[22:35] <owh> Tah
[22:35] <mathiaz> owh: and the last openweek sessions - there were a couple of sessions related to Merging.
[22:36]  * owh adds that to the ToDo list which is threatening to avalanche off the desk.
[22:37] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] SRU for hardy
[22:38] <mathiaz> zul: how are we doing on this front ?
[22:38] <_ZeuZ_> Sorry to interrupt, just wanted to join and see what's going on... Hope you guys don't mind
[22:38] <nealmcb> _ZeuZ_: welcome
[22:38] <zul> mathiaz: pretty good been slowly going through my list
[22:38] <owh> _ZeuZ_: The meeting is open to all comers, welcome.
[22:38] <zul> added a couple more today as well
[22:39] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/StableReleaseTracker
[22:39] <zul> people are welcome to add to the list as well :)
[22:39] <mathiaz> is the place where SRU are tracked
[22:40] <_ZeuZ_> Lovely, will do my best... I come from  Debian desktop enviroment seeking for easier network administration... Well, actually, easier traffic contorl and bandwidth managment and prioritizing... Hope I can help in something
[22:41] <mathiaz> anyone that comes across a bug worth fixing in hardy should ping zul about it
[22:41] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] UDS topic and preparation
[22:41] <zul> or if Im idling zulcss@ubuntu.com
[22:41] <mathiaz> As I said last week, we're preparing for UDS
[22:41] <ivoks> mathiaz: sorry to interrupt
[22:41] <ivoks> mathiaz: what about bugs in dapper?
[22:42] <ivoks> dapper is still supported and should get our attention also
[22:42] <mathiaz> ivoks: we're still looking into them
[22:42] <mathiaz> ivoks: aggreed. But now we have two LTS to look after
[22:42] <ivoks> right
[22:42] <mathiaz> ivoks: we plan to 8.04.1 in July
[22:42] <Nafallo> only LTSes? or just priority?
[22:42] <mathiaz> ivoks: so we focus on hardy until then
[22:43]  * kirkland guesses we'll see more -server users come the first hardy dot-release
[22:43] <mathiaz> ivoks: of course it doesn't mean we drop dapper - if bugs pop up we should aim at fixing them.
[22:43] <ivoks> mathiaz: ok, i do understand, i'll fight for some bugs in dapper :)
[22:44] <mathiaz> ivoks: great - we're still issuing SRU for dapper, feisty and gutsy.
[22:44] <mathiaz> ivoks: any contribution is of course accepted
[22:44] <ivoks> sorry for distraction, please continue with topic...
[22:44] <mathiaz> (a new cyrus-sasl2 package has been uploaded to dapper-proposed)
[22:45] <mathiaz> to go back to UDS topics and preparation
[22:45] <mathiaz> dendrobates: how are things going ?
[22:46] <dendrobates> mathiaz: good, the schedule is nearly final.
[22:46] <mathiaz> dendrobates: where/when will the schedule be published ?
[22:47] <dendrobates> mathiaz: I am not sure.  All the track leads need to be done first.
[22:47] <mathiaz> dendrobates: right - is a topic list available ?
[22:48] <mathiaz> dendrobates: UDS is in one and half week - people should start preparing the subjects
[22:48] <dendrobates> mathiaz: not yet.  But soon.  I'll announce it in #ubuntu-server.
[22:48] <mathiaz> dendrobates: ok - thanks.
[22:49] <mathiaz> Anyone has questions about UDS ?
[22:49] <_ZeuZ_> yes, a noob question here...
[22:49] <nijaba> who's coming?
[22:49] <_ZeuZ_> what is UDS?
[22:49] <soren> Is it going to be fun?
[22:49] <_ZeuZ_> I dunno, was it?
[22:49] <ivoks> nijaba: o/
[22:49] <sommer> o//
[22:49] <nijaba> _ZeuZ_: Ubuntu Developper Summit
[22:49] <_ZeuZ_> oh...
[22:49] <owh> soren: Only if you bring your 27 virtual machines...
[22:49] <zul> is there going to be beer?
[22:49] <_ZeuZ_> Gotcha
[22:50] <mathiaz> _ZeuZ_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid?highlight=%28UDS%29
[22:50] <ivoks> zul: in prague... lots of cheap beer
[22:50] <soren> owh: Aw.. :(
[22:50] <owh> soren: Ok, perhaps it will be fun if you turn up :)
[22:51] <mathiaz> ok - that's all I had for this week
[22:51] <owh> Are we onto other items yet?
[22:51] <soren> \o/
[22:51] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Any other business
[22:51] <ivoks> yeah
[22:51]  * owh would like to know about vmware-server in hardy. Do we have a time-line yet?
[22:51] <kirkland> mathiaz: i'd like to thank those that tested my Documentation Search ....  newz2000 is using it for the basis of a revamped search.ubuntu.com
[22:51]  * ivoks would like to start bigger disscusion with kernel team
[22:52] <ivoks> we need to coordinate better
[22:52]  * nealmcb still wishes we could see proposed blueprints -  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/blueprint/+bug/66093
[22:52] <owh> kirkland: I use it regularly :)
[22:52] <kirkland> owh: ;-)
[22:52] <_ZeuZ_> is there any GUI for TCNG or Iptables bundled with Ubuntu Server? It would make it be even more used for newcomers,ISPs(news and old ones wanting to migrate)  and such...
[22:52] <nealmcb> o/ at uds
[22:52] <mathiaz> ivoks: how come ? why not talk directly to them ?
[22:53] <mathiaz> ivoks: in which area should we cooperate ?
[22:53] <kirkland> _ZeuZ_: perhaps a better topic for #ubuntu-server ...  as soon as this meeting is over, most of us will migrate our attention back over there
[22:53] <ivoks> mathiaz: there are bugs which impact servers, but are kernel bugs
[22:53] <_ZeuZ_> Oh, lovely... sorry...
[22:54] <mathiaz> ivoks: and they don't get the required attention ?
[22:54] <ivoks> mathiaz: right
[22:54] <_ZeuZ_> Just thought it would help for ubuntu's supremacy in this territory... Red Hat allready has one... I got the ISOs and burned them to test, we can't fall under red hats feets on what to servers come
[22:54] <ivoks> mathiaz: or no one notices them
[22:54] <mathiaz> ivoks: hm.. seems like we need to make more noise then
[22:54] <ivoks> mathiaz: i just wante to point out that we need to talk with them more often :)
[22:55] <mathiaz> ivoks: do you have a list of the bug numbers ?
[22:55] <ivoks> mathiaz: no, but i did encounter 2-3 in last 7 days :)
[22:55] <mathiaz> ivoks: we can talk with ogasawara  - she's the kernel bug triagger
[22:56]  * owh wonders if the vmware-server question was noticed.
[22:56] <mathiaz> I'm sure nijaba has an answer :D
[22:57] <ivoks> mathiaz: i'm not really sure what to do, but i have a feeling we aren't doing enough
[22:57] <nijaba> mathiaz: I'd love to have one, sincerely
[22:57] <ivoks> mathiaz: as soon as i figure out what's wrong, i'll be first to op to fix it
[22:57] <mathiaz> ivoks: right - the right person to talk about that is ogasawara
[22:57] <ivoks> :D
[22:57] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] #
[22:57] <mathiaz> Agree on next meeting date and time.
[22:57] <_ZeuZ_> a kernel bug? Hmmm... I'm pretty noob at that, but, shouldnt that be caused for a patch on the ubuntu's flavor of linus kernel?
[22:57] <nijaba> we have a meeting with vmware next week, so may have more info then
[22:58]  * kirkland will be enroute to Prague this time next week
[22:58] <owh> nijaba: Tah.
[22:58] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
[22:58] <ivoks> kirkland: me too
[22:58] <mathiaz> same place, same time ?
[22:58] <owh> I'll be in sunny Perth waiting for the sun to rise :)
[22:58] <kirkland> mathiaz: perhaps meet a day earlier next time?  or a day later, from Prague?
[22:58] <nealmcb> I"ll be wandering around prague...
[22:58] <nealmcb> starting tuesday
[22:59] <sommer> just wanted to point out this link for uds attendees: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Prague/Attendees
[22:59] <mathiaz> most of us will be in Prague on Thursday
[22:59] <mathiaz> or travelling to Prague on Thursday
[22:59] <ivoks> sommer: i tought we use lp for that
[22:59] <mathiaz> and some of us will also be travelling to Prague on Wednesday
[23:00] <sommer> ivoks: ah, I just noticed it on planet ubuntu this morning in someones blog
[23:00] <ivoks> sommer: ups... nice wiki
[23:00] <mathiaz> Anyway - I guess not a lot of people will show up for next week's meeting
[23:00] <nealmcb> save our energy for the coming week....
[23:00] <owh> mathiaz: Any point in skipping a week?
[23:00] <sommer> ivoks: thought it'd work good for shared cabs and such :)
[23:00] <mathiaz> I'll be available as I'll already be in Europe then - and be travelling to Prague on Thursday
[23:00] <kirkland> someone should seed that wiki page with the attendees from https://edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-intrepid
[23:01] <ivoks> sommer: yeah... it's 00:00 over here, so i have late start and didn't notice taxi, flights etc...
[23:01] <mathiaz> owh: it seems most of us won't be available
[23:02] <owh> mathiaz: Sorry, I meant it as, "Let's skip next week..."
[23:02] <mathiaz> north american will probably be flying over the atlantic then
[23:02] <mathiaz> owh: we'd also skip in two week, when most of use will be at UDS
[23:02] <sommer> mathiaz: +1 :)
[23:02] <nealmcb> that should be a sub page of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid
[23:02] <owh> mathiaz: You mean, I can sleep in ?
[23:03] <owh> excellent!
[23:03] <mathiaz> owh: hehe
[23:03] <mathiaz> so let's say we skip the next two meetings ?
[23:03] <sommer> owh: nope, I don't think anyone said that :)
[23:03] <owh> I'm happy either way mathiaz. If there's a meeting, I'll be there.
[23:04] <owh> Do we know where UDS intrepid + 1 will be?
[23:04] <mathiaz> owh: somewhere in North America
[23:05] <mathiaz> owh: probably on the West Coast (according to the location of the previous UDS)
[23:05] <owh> mathiaz: Ah, so it alternates between USA and Europe then?
[23:06] <mathiaz> owh: yeah - this is how it was done in the past
[23:06] <jjesse> @schedule detroit
[23:06] <owh> mathiaz: If that's the case, then I might be at a UDS in a year from now :)
[23:06] <mathiaz> alright - so we haven't decided if we meet next week
[23:06] <owh> So, was it agreed that we skip the next two meetings?
[23:06] <nealmcb> owh: full list at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperSummit
[23:07] <jjesse> sorry for joing late
[23:07] <mathiaz> who's is in favour of having a meeting next week ?
[23:07] <owh> +1
[23:07] <owh> -1
[23:07] <owh> Doesn't matter :)
[23:08] <owh> Well it does, but I'll be here if there is one :)
[23:08]  * mathiaz wonders if owh and him are the only one around
[23:08] <ivoks> nope
[23:08] <sommer> owh: just make sure to wake up either way
[23:08] <jjesse> i', around not that it matters
[23:08] <jjesse> on a confrence call :)
[23:08] <owh> sommer: Only if you come and tuck me in the night before :)
[23:09] <sommer> heh, more fun when people wake up grumpy :)
[23:09]  * kirkland pats mathiaz on the back
[23:09]  * owh hasn't had a surrogate mother for years:)
[23:09]  * owh thanks mathiaz for all the hard work and suggests we take a fortnight's leave.
[23:10] <mathiaz> Alright - so no meeting next week - we'll meet in three weeks again - May 28th
[23:10]  * nealmcb thinks we already have, in effect :-)
[23:10]  * kirkland waves
[23:10] <mathiaz> thanks all for attending
[23:10] <sommer> thanks mathiaz
[23:10]  * ivoks drops ons bed
[23:10] <owh> Later all, I'm off to brekkie.
[23:10] <mathiaz> and see ya in Prague for those of you that will be there :)
[23:10] <owh> ivoks: ons?
[23:10] <ivoks> owh: on
[23:11] <owh> ivoks: You need more sleep ;-)
[23:11] <sommer> later all, have a good one
[23:11] <ivoks> owh: it's late... i baerly keep my eyes open
[23:11] <nijaba> thanks for hosting mathiaz
[23:11] <owh> ivoks: Go to bed. You're eyelids are getting heavy.
[23:11] <ivoks> mathiaz rulez