[00:00] <mneptok> nalioth: no reason to fear what has already come to pass
[00:00] <nalioth> that's like taking offense at someone being called bipedal (except for mneptok)
[00:01] <ompaul> nalioth, I resemble that remark
[00:02] <nalioth> ompaul: you have a very large epidermis
[00:02] <nalioth> EEEEK! another fact!!!
[00:02] <nalioth> Seeker` is mammalian (and is covered in follicles) 
[00:02] <nalioth> EEEK
[00:04] <nalioth> FOLLICLES! I say!
[00:06]  * PriceChild grins
[00:06] <Seeker`> :(
[00:06] <nalioth> and you've all got phalanges that you need to keep to yourselves
[00:08] <ompaul> and the bot is covered in factoids
[00:09] <nalioth> Seeker`: i will be available after 0200  BST saturday morning
[00:09]  * ompaul disappears 
[00:13] <Seeker`> nalioth: what timezone are you in?
[00:13] <nalioth> Seeker`: US Central time
[00:13] <Seeker`> ah, that explains it :P
[00:14] <Seeker`> I will have to see if I can catch you are a sensible time at some point then - by midnight my brain is usually fried
[00:16] <nalioth> i am leaving at around 6am my time thursday morning to go and pick up a new truck
[00:16] <nalioth> it will be a 350 mile round trip
[00:16] <nalioth> it will not be 'there and back', as we'll have to inspect it, drive it, etc
[00:16] <Seeker`> fun
[00:17] <Seeker`> it is not incredibly urgent that mootbot is set up, so if I can find you at some point over the weekend or something, that would be fine for me
[00:18] <nalioth> anyway, i dont' expect to be back until after 2000 friday night
[00:18] <Seeker`> ok
[00:18] <nalioth> i might be back sooner, but . . . 
[00:18] <nalioth> er
[00:18] <nalioth> 2000 thursday night
[00:18]  * nalioth doesn't need 48 hours to drive 350 miles
[00:18]  * Seeker` just did a ~200 mile round trip to see his family for ~24 hours
[00:18] <PriceChild> Seeker`: wasn't worth it was it....? :P
[00:19] <PriceChild> joking!!
[00:19]  * PriceChild wonders how far away he is
[00:19] <Seeker`> PriceChild: it was actually - got to see someone I haven't seen in 5 years
[00:19] <PriceChild> funky :)
[00:19] <Seeker`> yup
[00:20] <Seeker`> got to spend the afternoon sitting on the patio chatting
[00:20] <Seeker`> nalioth: like I said, if you'll be around at the weekend, i'll try and catch you then
[00:20] <nalioth> i should be back to normal schedule friday and beyond
[00:21] <Seeker`> 3cool
[00:21] <Seeker`> nalioth: if you dont mind me asking - if you are picking up a new truck, how will you get whatever you drove to the destination in back home?
[00:21] <nalioth> my brother is taking me out there
[00:22] <Seeker`> ah, that makes more sense
[00:29] <emma> Hello.
[00:29] <nalioth> hello, emma.  What can we do for you today?
[00:30] <emma> Hi nalioth - I would like to have all of the bans placed on me lifted. 
[00:43] <mneptok> emma: personally, i'd like to see a period of you abiding by Mark's requests and contributing in constructive ways before that olive branch is extended.
[00:44] <mneptok> emma: it is not constructive to spend time going through logs of other Freenode channels looking for things with shich to take offense.
[00:44] <mneptok> *which
[00:44] <mneptok> emma: that is, in fact, divisive, and only serves to spread ill-will and fracture the community.
[00:45] <mneptok> these are my opinions
[00:45] <tomaw> Could you clarify how a person can contribute in a constructive way whilst being banned?
[00:45] <emma> I have had a long period already where I have done exactly that. I have quietly and cooperatively worked with Ubuntu leadership even while many antagonistic things were said about me the entire time. On several occasions I have taken it on the chin in order to serve the greater interest in creating peace.
[00:46] <Pici> Perhaps a probationary period is warranted.
[00:46] <mneptok> tomaw: they can actively discourage users from /join'ing channels merely to collect information.
[00:47] <PriceChild> mneptok: could you reword that, I don't understand?
[00:47] <mneptok> emma: you have not had a long period of not reviewing channel logs for things with which you might take offense.
[00:47] <tomaw> Hmm
[00:48] <mneptok> PriceChild: i'd like to see less drive-by behavior in this channel from ##ubuntu-uncensored users
[00:48] <tomaw> You object to users reviewing your own published logs for things that may relate to them?
[00:48] <mneptok> (e.g. BunnyRevolution)
[00:48] <Pici> I'm tired of all this, maybe I'm just giving up: why not just unban in a few channels, keep an eye on it and then the rest.
[00:48] <PriceChild> right
[00:48] <mneptok> tomaw: no, i object to users /join'ing channels that clearly discourage non-official use for the mere purpose of ammunition gathering
[00:48] <mneptok> it's petty
[00:49] <Nafallo> mneptok: that is hardly emma's fault. now you are the one taking the piss on another user from a specific channel :-).
[00:49] <tomaw> That's opinion
[00:49]  * jdong agrees with Pici for what it's worth
[00:49] <Nafallo> mneptok: same thing you asked me not to do when we misunderstood each other.
[00:49] <emma> Pici -- Because that has already been what has effectively been done. And therefore I have already had a long "probationary period" with no trouble. 
[00:49] <mneptok> Nafallo: not sanctioning and active discouragement are not the same thing in my mind
[00:50] <gnomefreak> everything about it is opinion example it was emma's opinion op was too hard on her. ops opinion that emma was spamming (without a definiton of spamming)
[00:50] <Nafallo> mneptok: what are you asking emma to do about users from the other channel then?
[00:51] <tomaw> (fwiw I am comment a personal opinion, not as a member of freenode staff)
[00:51] <emma> mneptok, let me clarify this with you -- Are you suggesting that my status should depend upon me speaking to other users about unrelated conduct that you do not approve of?
[00:53] <gnomefreak> in #ubuntu yes in #ubuntu-offtopic i dont see hard unless you are insulting someone at the same time example dude lets go to #whereever because of the unfair ops (bad example but fits)
[00:53] <mneptok> emma: i am saying that an antagonistic tone exists, and you apparently are doing little to mediate it.
[00:53] <Seeker`> I think that mneptok believes that ##club-ubuntu has become something of a breeding ground for dislike of the ops, and that, as creator of the channel, you should do something to discourage the users there from what may be considered undesirable behaviour
[00:53] <mneptok> Seeker`+1
[00:54] <jdong> Seeker`: agreed on the later part of the sentence.
[00:54] <mneptok> emma: you do not enter the Ubuntu community on your terms. you enter on the community's terms. i think this is something you should give a lot of thought.
[00:55] <mneptok> emma: this means that you either contribute in positive ways, or do not contribute at all.
[00:55] <mneptok> emma: fomenting dissent is not positive.
[00:55] <emma> I have not done anything like that. And I am only responsible for my own words and actions. I am sure that you do not want to be held responsible for the words of actions of everyone in this channel.
[00:56] <mneptok> emma: you failure to understand this point led to you choosing to ignore some ops, and listen to others. this is clearly unacceptable behavior from a community member
[00:56] <emma> That is not an accurate portrayl of things. I believe you are referencing something we spoke about in -meeting.  The channel was simply scrolling so fast at that point that I did not see all of the comments. 
[00:57] <mneptok> emma: /join'ing this channel under an asumed nick, or sending others to spy for you, is not productive, straightforward, adult, or in keeping with the spirit of the CoC.
[00:57] <tomaw> mneptok: May I point out that his channel is publically logged.  No sneaky client is required to see what happens here.
[00:58] <emma> I have never joined this channel under an assumed nick. And I believe that you were the one who referenced an 'antagonistic tone' what is this you are saying here if not an antagonistic tone?
[00:58] <mneptok> tomaw: i'm aware of that.
[00:58] <gnomefreak> productiveness isnt is overrated (yes sarcastic)
[00:58] <Seeker`> gnomefreak: huh?
[00:58] <Pici> gnomefreak: grammar too
[00:58] <Seeker`> **** grammar, we're in a hurry ((c) Jimmy Carr)
[00:58] <mneptok> emma: if you did not join under an assumed nick, then you either recruited others to watch for you, or accepted their offer of acting as a proxy.
[00:58] <gnomefreak> Seeker`: this is a never ending topic because neither side is gonna give in its been 24hours or longer now
[00:59] <mneptok> emma: this is unproductive behavior.
[00:59] <emma> mneptok - That is also a false accusation. On what basis are you saying that?
[00:59] <Pici> mneptok: tbh, I havent seen any of that lately, except for whatever bunnyrevolution was doing here, but I'm not sure what was up wit that.
[00:59] <Nafallo> mneptok: have you got proof of those accusations?
[00:59] <Seeker`> emma: do you agree that there is a substantial subset of users in ##club-ubuntu that dislike the op team for various reasons?
[01:00] <mneptok> emma: the fact that *during* a conversation between a nick (not yours) and ops in this channel, you PM'ed me referencing the content of that discussion.
[01:00] <mneptok> Nafallo: i do. i have complete IRC logs.
[01:00] <Seeker`> Nafallo: I have seen instances where people not in the channel have referenced comments made in the channel before they appear in the logs
[01:00] <emma> mneptok - Could you please be specific? I do not know what you are talking about.
[01:01] <Nafallo> mneptok, Seeker`: fair enough *continues following the discussion*
[01:01] <Pici> I'd like to know how recent we are talking about too
[01:01] <gnomefreak> time+date+channel==!logs
[01:02] <Pici> I remember people showing up here out of the blue asking about logging, but that was in the beginning of this whole situation.
[01:02] <mneptok> emma: if you are asking me to make logs of your private messages to me public, i will. be aware that if you force me to do this, i will also share this past behavior with the Community Council.
[01:02] <mneptok> emma: i am happy to let the issue lie dormant.
[01:02] <mneptok> emma: frankly, if i were you, so would i.
[01:02] <Seeker`> Pici: I cant remember exact dates, but within the month or so I would guess
[01:03] <emma> I would like to know what I pmed you about that was going on in this channel.
[01:03] <emma> This channel is publicly logged and available for everyone to read. I was under the impression that was intentional so that there was some level of accountability for ops as well.
[01:04] <emma> mneptok, as I read our PM history it appears to me that my conversations with you were friendly and welcome, and even involved humor that you responded to in kind.
[01:06] <mneptok> emma: i try to keep things light when i can. there's no reason to be unfriendly. if you'd like me to be stern and dismissive in the future, i can be. i can assure you i will be if you continue to throw my approachability and good humor back in my face when it is strategically convenient.
[01:06] <emma> I have never done anything of the kind. I felt that your comment to me about showing our pm history made what I responded with very reasonable.
[01:06] <emma> These are the facts as they appear to me:
[01:07] <emma> There have been instances where I feel and others feel that I have been bullied by some ubuntu ops. I have enumerable times gone out of my way to insist that these are a tiny fraction of an other wise large and extremely talented team of individuals. 
[01:08] <mneptok> emma: i am going to publicly post a private log between you and myself. is this waht you want?
[01:08] <gnomefreak> this seems to have taken a turn away from ops and users to personal issues. might i suggest moving this to a mailing list as the logs are much easier to find and a little bit more private
[01:08] <emma> I believe that my statement at the meeting is exactly the opposite of promoting an antagonistic tone.
[01:08] <emma> mneptok - If you post a pm log I would like you to post our entire pm history so that there is full context and it can be seen we had a prior relationship and I was being jovial with you as well.
[01:09] <emma> Which you responded to with laughter. 
[01:09] <mneptok> emma: you were not "jokingz" about the fact that you knew about conversations in this channel that did not involve you.
[01:10] <emma> mneptok - this channel is publicly logged. 
[01:10] <mneptok> emma: as i said, i try to keep things light. if you'd rather i ban you from all Ubuntu channels and request Freenode k: you, i can. i don;t see that being productive.
[01:10] <mneptok> emma: you PMed me *during* the conversation
[01:10] <emma> mneptok - Unfortunately other Ubuntu operators have already done exactly what you said you could do.
[01:11] <Seeker`> I dont see this conversation going anywhere particularly useful. Perhaps it should stop now.
[01:11] <emma> mneptok - I am still not sure what you are referring to. I am looking at our entire pm history right now. Could you perhaps pm me to inform me on what the issue is so that I can better respond to it?
[01:11] <mneptok> emma: there is no need to respond
[01:11] <mneptok> emma: trust me, you want to forget about this.
[01:11] <mneptok> emma: i am doing you a BIG favor by offering you a chance to walk away from this subject
[01:12] <mneptok> take that chance
[01:12] <emma> For several weeks I have been banned from this channel as well as all the others. That has meant that a vital means of recourse has been deprived of me. I feel that I am being asked to stop this dialog because I am raising articulate and coherent points.
[01:12] <Seeker`> mneptok: emma: I dont see this conversation going anywhere particularly useful. Perhaps it should stop now.
[01:12] <emma> I would like to make a few more comments for anyone else who may be listening.
[01:13] <mneptok> emma: you will be unbanned when the ops team feels it is appropriate. not before.
[01:14] <emma> This began when I felt (and others have felt) that an Ubuntu moderator was being bullying toward me. It is certainly true that I can be reprimanded for not responding to that feeling of being bullied in the best possible way. 
[01:14] <emma> That is somewhat because at the time this all began I was completely new to IRC and was still entirely used to the way I treat and am treated by others off line.
[01:16] <emma> When people are demeaned, disenfranchised, and disrespected they may respond in many ways. Some will respond by trying to stand taller in order to not feel they have lost their dignity.
[01:16] <emma> In many ways the decision to create another channel was an attempt to stand taller and not feel so powerless. 
[01:16] <PriceChild> Right, can we stop and take a breather for a second please.
[01:17] <emma> I have since disbanded that channel as a gesture of cooperation and friendship with the larger Ubuntu community. I am fully willing to abide by the wishes of all Ubuntu leadership, even those who I feel have lost sight of their Ubuntu mandate, and have are seeking me out as a target. 
[01:17] <PriceChild> ahem
[01:18] <emma> Yes. 
[01:18] <Seeker`> emma: s/disbanded/renamed
[01:18] <mneptok> emma: please do *NOT* talk about "disbanding" that channel again. it insults our intelligence. you "re-named" it.
[01:18] <Pici> ahem
[01:18] <PriceChild> mneptok: you too please.
[01:32] <PriceChild> The Council has decided to lift the ban on emma in #ubuntu.
[01:32] <mneptok> PriceChild: meeting minutes?
[01:33] <nalioth> +1
[01:34] <PriceChild> nalioth: what is that a +1 to?
[01:34] <Seeker`> PriceChild: Just #ubuntu?
[01:34] <nalioth> +1 to lifting the ban on emma in #ubuntu 
[01:34] <PriceChild> Seeker`: just #ubuntu for now yes.
[01:34] <nalioth> just for now
[01:35] <PriceChild> We're hoping that emma will take this chance to contribute to Ubuntu, supporting a user or two.
[01:35] <mneptok> PriceChild: was there a Council meeting i missed?
[01:35] <PriceChild> mneptok: no, we just had a quick private discussion.
[01:35] <emma> I am more than happy to seize that opportunity. Thank you.
[01:35] <mneptok> PriceChild: "we" who?
[01:36] <PriceChild> mneptok: me, nalioth and elkbuntu.
[01:36] <nalioth> mneptok: the IRC council
[01:36] <mneptok> PriceChild: private conversations directing policy is pretty antithetical to the open nature of Ubuntu Councils.
[01:36] <PriceChild> mneptok: I suggest we then propose a motion to publicise the irc-council & community-council ML list archives also?
[01:37] <mneptok> PriceChild: i'll understandbly abide by decisions, but IMO, this is the type of issue the Council should address in an open manner.
[01:37] <mneptok> PriceChild: excellent :)
[01:38]  * Seeker` thought that IRC council "meetings" were supposed to be open to the public anyway
[01:38] <PriceChild> We have read the discussion here, and are up to date. This was proposed, and agreed to.
[01:38] <PriceChild> Seeker`: they are.
[01:38] <emma> Assuming that my experience in #ubuntu reflects the person that I say that I am, is it reasonable to expect that the namespace wide ban would be lifted after a reasonable amount of time?
[01:40] <mneptok> emma: please stop asking for promises of future actions
[01:41] <PriceChild> emma: Lets see how things go. We're all constantly (re)assessing things.
[01:41] <emma> Okay. 
[01:42] <emma> Is there anything else that you would like to tell me or that I can or should say?
[01:43] <mneptok> emma: i would ask that you actively discourage users of your channels from fomenting divisiveness and dissent.
[01:44] <Seeker`> mneptok: "fomenting"?
[01:44] <mneptok> Seeker`: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=foment
[01:45]  * Seeker` thinks that "fostering" is a much better word :P
[01:47] <Pici> Was foment the word-of-the-day?
[01:47] <emma> I actively encourage every single human being on earth to be kind to one another and conscientious about how our words and actions affect those around us. Especially when we are in a position of power.
[01:48] <emma> PriceChild, is there anything else that you would like me to know, or that I should respond to, or say?
[01:48] <mneptok> emma: personally, i fail to see how sending people in here to gather information and poring through old logs for ammunition matches your stated ethos.
[01:49] <PriceChild> emma: not that I know of
[01:49] <emma> I have already told you that I have never done that. -- mneptok.
[01:49] <emma> PriceChild, okay thank you then. Would it be seen as abrupt if I left now then?
[01:49] <nalioth> emma: have a nice evening  ;)
[01:50] <emma> You too nalioth. ;)
[01:54] <mneptok> i really, really, really, don't want to start grep-ing logs.
[01:55] <Seeker`> mneptok: dont then
[01:58] <mneptok> Seeker`: i won't unless the hand is forced. saying "i never did that" when i have clear evidence you did is not a great way to let the sleeping dog lie. :)

[02:01]  * Pici hands nalioth a glass of water
[02:01] <Amaranth> I can't think of a situation offhand that is rather recent
[02:01] <Amaranth> Release time, guy talking to Canonical support about us banning people for posting links
[02:01] <Pici> can't?
[02:01] <Amaranth> err, can :P
[02:01] <bazhang> oroshi
[02:02] <Amaranth> emma was PMing the guy and feeding him info from this channel long before it went in the logs
[02:02] <Amaranth> and PMing everyone else
[02:02] <Pici> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10840/
[02:02] <Amaranth> That's a little too recent for me to think about allowing emma in ubuntu channels again
[02:03] <PriceChild> What are we hoping for with this discussion?
[02:03] <Pici> I dont know
[02:03] <Pici> I'd rather not waste any more time on this
[02:03] <Amaranth> To not give in just because we got our hand slapped by the CC
[02:03] <Pici> *sigh*
[02:04] <Amaranth> I mean, come on, that was 2 weeks ago
[02:04] <Pici> Uh.
[02:04] <Amaranth> We have people banned longer than that for much smaller things
[02:04] <PriceChild> Amaranth: do you think those bans worked?
[02:04] <Pici> Amaranth: Why dont we focus on the future, and not the past.  
[02:05] <Pici> I'm sure we all want this thing to just go away so we can get back to real work
[02:05] <Amaranth> PriceChild: I think they got rid of the person
[02:05] <PriceChild> Amaranth: do you think the same bans work in this case?
[02:06] <Amaranth> I think removing the ban because the person keeps causing problems is a bad precedent
[02:06] <PriceChild> I agree, so its a good thing that isn't the reasoning.
[02:07] <Amaranth> emma was disruptive in a major way just two weeks ago
[02:08] <Amaranth> I think the ban should have stayed longer
[02:08] <PriceChild> Do you think the ban was working? / Do you think a longer ban would have more positive results?
[02:09] <Amaranth> I don't think anything positive will come out of this either way.
[02:09] <nalioth> Amaranth: i don't think she's gonna be whooping it up in #ubuntu 
[02:09] <PriceChild> 'more positive'
[02:09] <Amaranth> I doubt she'll even talk in #ubuntu
[02:10] <Pici> I think this is a unique situation where extending the ban isnt going to yield better results.
[02:10] <PriceChild> Amaranth: I don't see the point in a longer ban then after that statement.
[02:11] <Amaranth> To prove a point, I guess.
[02:11] <PriceChild> Understood.
[02:12] <Amaranth> I mean, now it looks like if you complain to the CC we'll bend over for you
[02:12] <nalioth> i'd hardly call unbanning in #ubuntu only "bending over"
[02:12] <mneptok> PriceChild: i think the existing ban served as a cuationary tale. removing it creates a recipe for getting your ban lifted.
[02:13] <Seeker`> Amaranth: "Cause trouble, you'll get a ban. Cause some more trouble you'll get a longer ban. cause even more trouble you get unbanned again"?
[02:13] <Amaranth> Seeker`: Right
[02:13] <mneptok> 'zackly
[02:16] <Seeker`> I think that the only useful thing that could happen now is to work out how to avoid this siutation in future
[02:16] <Pici> Seeker`: +1
[02:16] <Amaranth> Go right ahead
[02:17] <Amaranth> This situation is why I've been ignoring all this stuff and just responding to !ops calls
[02:17] <PriceChild> did that guy just join because it was -J at the split, so bots in emergency mode and wouldn't be muted?
[02:18] <PriceChild> i notice they're still -zb'ing
[02:18] <Pici> PriceChild: I'm not entirely sure
[02:18] <Pici> I was noticing it at asll
[02:18] <Pici> as well
[02:18] <Amaranth> arg
[02:19] <Amaranth> amazon is so annoying and all the php libraries to use it are GPL
[02:19] <Amaranth> I need LGPL or lower :P
[02:20] <Seeker`> I believe that things should be dealt with before it gets to the point where *everyone* is involved, at which point noone can give an impartial view of the situation
[02:20] <PriceChild> bots not in sync?
[02:20] <Seeker`> I believe this is what PriceChild's conflict resolution team aimed to achieve
[02:21] <no0tic> PriceChild, floodbot does the same on #ubuntu-it and it is only one
[02:21] <Amaranth> Any of you going to be at UDS?
[02:22] <no0tic> PriceChild, it keepd -J'ing the channel and -zb'ing users but never mutes them
[02:22] <popey> o/
[02:22] <Amaranth> Other than mneptok, me and him seem to have the same viewpoints here
[02:22] <PriceChild> no0tic: it probably didn't mute because of the split
[02:22] <Seeker`> Amaranth: I'm not - stupid exams. And popey wont buy me a ticket :P
[02:22] <Amaranth> popey: \o/
[02:22] <popey> \o/
[02:22] <Amaranth> Ok, I'll argue with popey about it at UDS then :)
[02:22] <PriceChild> no0tic: you would have to check with the author though :)
[02:22] <stdin> PriceChild: he was one of the people that split
[02:22] <popey> hurrah
[02:22] <popey> cant wait
[02:22] <no0tic> PriceChild, status tells it is not in emergency mode, I don't know, I'll try to force it
[02:23] <stdin> also, he seems to have a dynamic IP
[02:23] <popey> bed
[02:23] <popey> dreaming of Amaranth 
[02:23] <no0tic> PriceChild, yes, I tried, he complained about his bad connection
[02:23]  * Amaranth is scared
[02:23] <popey> be afraid
[02:23] <PriceChild> no0tic: i took them out as they disagreed
[02:23] <Amaranth> sorry, i meant scarred
[02:24] <Seeker`> Amaranth: you will be
[02:24]  * Seeker` has met popey before
[02:24]  * Amaranth too
[02:24] <Pici> Seeker`: pope-like?
[02:25] <Amaranth> Seeker`: I think I'm bigger, can't remember :)
[02:25] <Seeker`> to be fair, he has given me 1 computer for every 5 minutes we've spent together in person
[02:25] <Pici> PriceChild: the factoids page isn't in a factoid anymore iirc
[02:25] <PriceChild> yeah, just realised it might not be public anymore
[02:26] <Seeker`> PriceChild: What happened to the conflict resolution stuff
[02:26] <Pici> PriceChild: its at http://jussi01.com/web/factoids.cgi iirc
[02:26] <PriceChild> Pici: hmm the factoid database is web accessible, but not sure whether to publicise it
[02:26] <Pici> PriceChild: jussi said that its okay to tell people about it, but that if theres too much traffic, he'll remove it
[02:26] <PriceChild> nevermind 8-)
[02:27] <PriceChild> Seeker`: nothing more than what you heard afaik
[02:27] <Amaranth> Seeker`: wait, did he give you a classmate?
[02:27] <Seeker`> Amaranth: No, a 400MHz P2 Dell
[02:27] <stdin> you mentioned it here so it's been logged, and everyone under the sun will know about it in 20 mins
[02:27] <Amaranth> ah
[02:27] <Pici> fancy
[02:27] <Pici> stdin: I asked jussi about it the other day, in here
[02:27] <Seeker`> PriceChild: Perhaps it could do with some more development etc.
[02:28] <PriceChild> Seeker`: the conflict resolution process is obviously under scrutiny lately and is going to be reviewed and discussed I'm sure. We've got to fix things :)
[02:28] <stdin> Pici: it's already been mentioned in other channels too, including #ubuntu ;)
[02:28] <Seeker`> PriceChild: The system you suggested was a very good idea imo - but it actually needs to be implemented - although it would take ops realising when a situation has gone beyond a normal "troll" into something bigger
[02:29] <PriceChild> Seeker`: I don't think it was my idea.
[02:29] <Seeker`> s/you suggested/were trying to get going/
[02:30] <PriceChild> I also don't entirely agree with everything that was proposed.
[02:30] <Seeker`> what do you disagree with?
[02:31] <PriceChild> I'd rather we wait until we start dicussions properly about it.
[02:31] <Seeker`> fair enough
[02:31] <Pici> 21:31:14 <FloodBot2> ubottu: Please don't flood, use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste, don't use Enter as punctuation.
[02:31] <Pici> 21:31:14 <FloodBot2> ubottu: Please don't flood, use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste, don't use Enter as punctuation.
[02:32] <PriceChild> Plus its late.
[02:32] <Pici> indeed
[02:35] <mneptok> Amaranth: seen a Classmate?
[02:35] <Amaranth> yeah
[02:36] <mneptok> k, otherwise i'd offer to bring ours to UDS
[02:36] <bazhang> what if ubottu learned to actually paste?
[02:45] <tonyyarusso> buh?
[02:53] <Amaranth> mneptok: ogra let me play with his in seville and boston
[02:53] <Amaranth> says compiz takes a year to start
[02:54] <mneptok> Amaranth: maybe in tortoise years ;)
[02:55] <Amaranth> well it has terrible IO performance
[02:55] <Amaranth> compiz doesn't do a _lot_ of IO but apparently enough
[02:55] <Amaranth> and it has to do the whole texture_from_pixmap thing for every window on start
[02:55] <Amaranth> actually, bring it, i want to profile it :)
[02:56] <mneptok> Amaranth: i'll try. shouldn;t be a problem, but it may be in use here and unavailable.
[02:56] <mneptok> Amaranth: i'll see if Oli will have one with him ,too
[02:56] <Amaranth> he uses his though
[02:56] <Amaranth> in boston it was his main laptop
[02:57] <mneptok> k
[02:57] <mneptok> i'll see if i can abduct ours for a week
[03:16] <PriceChild> ubuntu-irc archive seems to be back btw (hobbsee)
[03:26]  * PriceChild wonders why the floodbots aren't muting on pastes
[03:28] <mneptok> PriceChild: yeah, same here
[03:37] <no0tic> is ubottu replying to bug requests?
[03:38] <Amaranth> bug 67435
[03:38] <Amaranth> no0tic: Yes
[03:38] <no0tic> uhm
[03:38] <no0tic> Amaranth, not in ubuntu-bugs, it seems
[03:38] <no0tic> bug 478135
[03:38] <no0tic> probably it is not in LP
[03:39] <Amaranth> definitely not
[03:39] <Amaranth> we're up to 210000 or so
[03:39] <no0tic> strange then, apt-listsbugs lists a bug with that number on util-linux
[03:40] <Amaranth> in debian
[03:40] <Amaranth> debian 478135
[04:05] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: oh good!  thanks.
[04:10]  * Hobbsee is amused.  comments talking about the difficulties are unwelcome, yet the difficulties themselves are quite welcome, and no one looks into.
[04:11] <Hobbsee> a lot of the terminology was from popey himself.
[04:12] <Hobbsee> last i checked, it wasn't a requirement in the CoC that we're politically correct, all the time, either
[04:30] <Hobbsee> Oh, you're kidding.
[04:30]  * Hobbsee waits for the reports of more spam, seeing as she's only agreed to stop doing what she claims she never does in the first place.
[04:31] <Hobbsee> oddly enough, that probably *won't* lead to a change in behaviour.  That's like me saying that I won't murder elkbuntu - seeing as i wasn't planning on doing it anyway, the point is moot.
[04:34] <Hobbsee> OTOH, she may actually have a change of heart.
[04:35] <Hobbsee> as in, a permanent one, not one to just get what she wants, then change back.
[05:45] <tonyyarusso> Say, is there a particular need for -classroom-chat to be open outside of open week?
[06:11] <Myrtti> ohcrapadoola what a headache
[06:11] <Myrtti> kill me, kill me now
[06:11] <Myrtti> morning
[06:11]  * mneptok reattaches
[06:11]  * Hobbsee reattaches mneptok to the wall
[07:37] <Myrtti> I shall never ever drink... until the next time
[07:38] <ompaul> Myrtti, MORNING ;-) have a bottle of water
[07:38] <Myrtti> sipping Chamomille as we speak
[07:39] <Myrtti> and please don't shout
[07:39] <ompaul> water cures 83.7% of all known misadventures
[07:39] <Myrtti> hurts my eyes
[07:39] <ompaul> I love stats and how they are meaningless without the raw data
[09:28] <slytherin> Can someone help me with reinsertion of ubottu in #ubuntu-in
[09:30] <Myrtti> slytherin: ubottu is a temporary bot with less resources than ubotu did
[09:30] <slytherin> Myrtti: so ubotu is offline? Any idea when will it be back?
[09:30] <Myrtti> slytherin: as such, it will not be available to all loco channels that used to have ubotu
[09:31] <Myrtti> slytherin: it's offline and it will not be back, so there's no idea when it will be back
[09:32] <Myrtti> there's ongoing discussion with relevant groups about who will take care of the bot in the future, ie. who's going to host it, keep the software updated etc
[09:32] <slytherin> Myrtti: Ok. Thanks for info.
[09:33] <Myrtti> there isn't any definitive answer yet from that front, so we've got no exact time when *a* "ubotu" will be available
[09:34] <Myrtti> btw, if you could join on #ubuntu-irc and have representation of -in there
[09:34] <Myrtti> a permanent preferably
[09:34] <slytherin> Myrtti: can you then add ubottu to the channel? The channel only uses the bot for usual '!term' use.
[09:34] <Myrtti> basically anyone of the -in ops would do nicely in -irc
[09:35] <Myrtti> slytherin: erm, then?
[09:35] <Myrtti> it's not "if you join -irc, I will then join ubottu to -in"
[09:36] <Myrtti> it's "would you please have some of the ops of -in join -irc since that's the channel where the general Ubuntu IRC effort is co-ordinated"
[09:37] <slytherin> Myrtti: I will join the channel now and make sure that we have a permanent representation there.
[09:37] <Myrtti> thanks
[09:37] <slytherin> ﻿/join #ubuntu-irc
[09:37] <slytherin> ﻿﻿/join #ubuntu-irc
[11:07] <jussi01> afternoon all
[11:08] <ikonia> jussi01: for once it is
[11:09] <ikonia> I've had the best morning in #ubuntu for ages
[11:09] <ikonia> no trouble at all :)
[11:53] <jussi01> right... [13:52:55] <xintron> is it possible to crack WPA keys or do you have to bruteforce?
[12:24] <jdavies> bazhang: what did the redhat guy/lady do?
[12:24] <bazhang> he came in said the f word then quit
[12:25] <bazhang> the whois said whowas 
[12:25] <elkbuntu> what channel?
[12:25] <bazhang> #ubuntu elkbuntu 
[12:25] <elkbuntu> and what nick?
[12:25] <bazhang> rajesh
[12:26] <jdavies> I can only see: [!] rajesh [n=rajesh@ns.cmi.ac.in] has quit [Client Quit]
[12:26] <elkbuntu> jdavies, the nat cloak is the banned one
[12:27] <jdavies> elkbuntu: yes, I saw that
[12:27] <bazhang> rajesh hemant chitnis
[12:35] <wgrant> jussi01: One doesn't have to bruteforce WEP.
[12:42] <PriceChild> bazhang: Haven't looked at the reasons for the ban, but the ban itself is near useless
[12:43] <PriceChild> bazhang: big corporations like canonical, redhat, google, hp etc. legitimately have lots of people appearing to irc from the same ip. So among other reasons, to stop one person being treated as the rest, they get a cloak like nat/group/x-98u9087492384
[12:43] <bazhang> PriceChild, okay; just seemed odd that someone would do that and as he had already left a kick was a bit late
[12:43] <PriceChild> bazhang: the bit on the end, after the x is random for each connection.
[12:44] <PriceChild> bazhang: if you really wanted to place a ban, it would ahve to be on some other part of his hostmask
[12:44] <bazhang> PriceChild, okay thanks; so just put up with it for a bit then contact red hat or whoever?
[12:44] <PriceChild> bazhang: and if you would have only kicked, not banned if he was still there, i'm interested as to why a straight ban is the way to go after.
[12:45] <bazhang> PriceChild, well would have kicked but he was already gone
[12:45] <PriceChild> bazhang: there are more ways to ban than the hostname. Also, maybe he just joined the wrong channel, or realised his problem and didn't need to be there anymore.
[12:46] <bazhang> PriceChild, that seems unlikely in the extreme 
[12:47] <PriceChild> just reviewed logs...
[12:47] <PriceChild> are you sure you got the right guy?
[12:47] <bazhang> PriceChild, yes
[12:48] <PriceChild> rajesh [n=rajesh@ns.cmi.ac.in] ?
[12:49] <bazhang> I got the nat one PriceChild 
[12:49]  * PriceChild looks for that one
[12:49] <Daviey> 12:23 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@ns.cmi.ac.in] has joined #ubuntu
[12:49] <Daviey> 12:23 < rajesh> heya
[12:49] <Daviey> 12:23 < rajesh> fuck u man
[12:49] <Daviey> 12:23 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@ns.cmi.ac.in] has quit [Client Quit]
[12:50] <bazhang> will avoid banning in the future PriceChild unless completely unavoidable--though not clear when that would be--seemed warranted at the time but I have a lot to learn still
[12:50] <PriceChild> I don't see any parts or joins in my lastlog.
[12:50] <PriceChild> *redhat parts or joins
[12:53] <PriceChild> Unless my grep foo is low, I don't see any joins/parts of that mask in my logs either.
[12:57] <PriceChild> bazhang: With time you'll make your own mind up of when to use access, please don't take this as a telling off and "next time do it this way", its not meant to be. I'm just trying to help and figure out what just happenned.
[12:58] <bazhang> PriceChild, of course I would never take it that way :) I appreciate your pointing out the finer points to me very much.
[12:58] <bazhang> oops too many points
[12:58] <PriceChild> I'm not sure who that ban was placed on... going through your command history by pressing the up key on the dpad would help.
[12:59] <Mez> [rajesh] (n=rajesh@ns.cmi.ac.in): Rajesh Hemant Chitnis
[12:59] <Mez> * [rajesh] irc.freenode.net :Thu May  8 13:23:15 2008
[12:59] <Mez> * [rajesh] (n=rranjan@nat/redhat-in/x-69ccd0ca5f41cc8b): Rajesh Ranjan
[12:59] <Mez> * [rajesh] irc.freenode.net :Thu May  8 13:05:52 2008
[12:59] <Mez> (/whowas rajesh 0)
[13:00] <bazhang> n=rranjan@nat/redhat-in/x-69ccd0ca5f41cc8b
[13:00] <PriceChild> aha
[13:00] <bazhang> arg
[13:01] <Mez> There was more than one "rajesh" in the whowas list
[13:01] <PriceChild> bazhang: xchat and chanserv.py?
[13:01] <bazhang> PriceChild, aye
[13:01] <PriceChild> BUG!!! :)
[13:02] <bazhang> back to konv then
[13:02] <PriceChild> :O
[13:02] <bazhang> harder to ban though so an upside :)
[13:02]  * PriceChild misses chanserv.py sometimes
[13:03] <bazhang> havent figured out how to un-ban though--> /cs u rajesh ?
[13:03] <PriceChild> be careful
[13:03] <PriceChild> whoops i just unbanned it myself, should have let you :)
[13:04] <bazhang> hehe thanks :)
[13:04] <PriceChild> try using "/cs bans nick" first
[13:04] <PriceChild> that will show all the bans currently affecting that user
[13:04] <PriceChild> using "/cs u nick" will undo *all* of them
[13:04] <bazhang> great thanks :)
[13:13] <bazhang> with the chanserv.py can one /cs o u nick in one step? or is it two step-->/cs o then /cs u nick
[13:15] <elkbuntu> and if you undo all of them, you'll make baby tux cry.
[13:16] <bazhang> thanks elkbuntu :) just the ones *I* banned using konv the first day on the job
[13:16] <nalioth> bazhang: if the person is not causing a problem ( because they quit ), there is no need for a ban.  however all situations are different, but try to start out with 'catalyse" in mind instead of 'ban'
[13:17] <elkbuntu> http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:uG_-7zbFQiEJ:www.loria.fr/~rougier/pub/Artwork/BabyTux.png <-- dont make him cry :(
[13:17] <elkbuntu> nalioth, depending on the type of problem they did cause of course
[13:17] <bazhang> thanks nalioth :)
[13:18] <nalioth> elkbuntu: of course
[13:19] <Daviey> There is of course a ban+forward to here, so the person isn't completely locked out and we can find out what happend.
[13:20] <elkbuntu> not always useful for botnets etc
[13:51] <cgentry72> why am I muted from #ubuntu
[13:52] <Pici> cgentry72: Looks like a combination of lag, the floodobots and perhaps a netsplit kept you muted after you pasted something
[13:52] <Pici> s/floodobots/floodbots/
[13:53] <Pici> cgentry72: I've removed the mute
[13:53] <cgentry72> Pici, yea i made a mistake of pasting something large
[14:10] <Pici> white_eagle: How can we help you today?
[14:10] <white_eagle> hello, why am I still banned on #ubuntu-offtopic after 3 months or so
[14:13] <white_eagle> .?
[14:13] <Pici> I dont have logs back that far on this computer, anyone else awake?
[14:14] <white_eagle> it was a /ping related issue as I remember
[14:14] <white_eagle> I pinged the whole channel unintentionally, let me say stupidly
[14:15] <bazhang> toored is seriously offtopic
[14:15] <white_eagle> toored?
[14:15] <Pici> white_eagle: Nothing to do with your issue, we actually use this channel for operator discussion ;)
[14:16] <white_eagle> oh
[14:16] <white_eagle> sorry
[14:17] <Hobbsee> ah yes, guess you got caught be seveas' script.
[14:17] <Pici> I remember something about multiple 'accidental' pings, but I'm not sure this is the same situation
[14:18] <white_eagle> no, i went to irssi from xchat and I used the /ping command there and i forgot (yeah, 3 times) that it pings the whole channel instead of just myself
[14:19]  * Hobbsee mutters about irssi's evilness
[14:19] <Seeker`> Hobbsee: What is wrong with irssi?
[14:19] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: it's handling of /ping
[14:22] <Pici> white_eagle: I'm going to remove the ban, please be careful in the future with irc commands that affect the entire channel.
[14:22] <white_eagle> thank you
[14:22] <Pici> white_eagle: all set
[14:22] <white_eagle> i promise it won't happen again
[14:22] <white_eagle> bye
[14:33] <ikonia> trying to run shell exploits in channel
[14:34] <Mez> IT's more of a fork bomb
[14:34] <ikonia> yes
[14:38] <Pici> Did anyone talk to him?
[14:38]  * Mez didnt
[14:49] <elkbuntu> i did, but got distracted
[14:49] <elkbuntu> ok... this is alot of joins
[14:53] <elkbuntu> it wasnt like a mass join, just a high incidence of joins for a few minutes
[15:26] <Pici> How does chanserv.py search the channel's bans? 
[15:26] <Pici> Is it if $arg is anywhere within $ban or ?
[15:26] <PriceChild> Pici: it does a whois/whowas and ban list, then sees which effect
[15:26] <Pici> PriceChild: ooh, fancy.
[15:27] <PriceChild> i used xchat on a proxy, and it was annoying as there was a bug somewhere meaning i'd need to manually load the ban list
[15:28] <elkbuntu> chanserv can search the channel bans?
[15:29] <ikonia> eyes on XchatKicker please in #ubuntu
[15:29] <elkbuntu> er .py*
[15:29] <ikonia> already started "whois'ing" people
[15:32] <stdin> elkbuntu: you can do /cs bans <user|mask> it it'll show if there's a ban
[15:33] <elkbuntu> :-/
[15:33] <elkbuntu> i never knew :(
[15:33] <stdin> doesn't show who set it and when though, so the bantracker is probably more useful
[15:34] <stdin> it's good to see if a ban exist in the first place though, and what type (it includes mutes)
[15:35] <Hobbsee> stdin: er?
[15:35] <Hobbsee>  /cs bans #ubuntu kah
[15:35] <Hobbsee> [00:35] [Notice] -ChanServ- Unknown command [bans]
[15:35] <stdin> Hobbsee: chanserv.py
[15:35] <Hobbsee> or does that actually require chanserv.py?
[15:36] <Hobbsee> bah.
[15:37] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: maybe look into the alias' irssi alias is /kb for kick ban
[15:37] <elkbuntu> most chanserv.py stuff is just shortcuts for other ways to do thing
[15:37] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: i already have all that aliased.
[15:37] <gnomefreak> ah
[15:37] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: yeah, i'm wondering what the long form is.
[15:41] <Pici> http://nullcortex.com/code/irssi/banmatch will search within current channel's bans for a nick or full hostmask, I'm working on improving it to better match chanserv.py's search method
[16:05] <gnomefreak> the pinning wiki is out of date and fails to work even atleast one link on that wiki is no good i think changing !pinning to something else might be best
[16:05] <PriceChild> !pinning
[16:06] <gnomefreak> intrepid has a bad packge that im working on locking/pinning but that guide fails to work 
[16:07] <gnomefreak> ill be back in a few hours hopfully
[16:07] <PriceChild> I think fixing the wiki page is a better solution?
[16:07] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: right now ther eisnt a way around it. i pinged mvo about this and waiting for a reply. if you know of a nother way please let me know :)
[16:08] <gnomefreak> typing is really bad the past 2 days :(
[16:09] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: as to how to pin?
[16:09] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: yes pin a version of a package
[16:10] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: echo packagename hold | dpkg --set-selections
[16:10] <gnomefreak> synaptic pinning isnt global
[16:10] <Hobbsee> you're right.
[16:10] <Hobbsee> hence, you need to do it at dpkg level.
[16:10] <Hobbsee> to reverse that, you need to do an 'echo packagename install | dpkg --set-selections'
[16:10] <Hobbsee> i don't remmeber if dpkg --clear-selections also works
[16:11] <gnomefreak> holding it is failing
[16:11] <gnomefreak> gnomefreak@Development:~$ sudo echo libxfont1 hold | dpkg --set-selections
[16:11] <gnomefreak> dpkg: operation requires read/write access to dpkg status area
[16:11] <Hobbsee> sudo -s first
[16:11] <Hobbsee> or quote it
[16:12] <gnomefreak> sudo -s didnt work either
[16:12] <Hobbsee> !doesntwork | gnomefreak 
[16:12] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: same error
[16:12] <gnomefreak> for most part
[16:12] <Hobbsee> what exact command did you use?
[16:12] <gnomefreak> dpkg: operation requires read/write access to dpkg status area
[16:12] <gnomefreak> /bin/echo: /bin/echo: cannot execute binary file
[16:12] <gnomefreak> gnomefreak@Development:~$ sudo -s echo libxfont1 hold | dpkg --set-selections
[16:12] <Hobbsee> s/echo/cat/ sorry.
[16:13] <gnomefreak> ah
[16:13] <Hobbsee> wait, no, it is echo.
[16:13] <gnomefreak> dpkg: operation requires read/write access to dpkg status area
[16:13] <gnomefreak> /bin/cat: /bin/cat: cannot execute binary file
[16:13] <Hobbsee> sudo -s first
[16:13] <Hobbsee> then use the echo .... stuff
[16:13] <gnomefreak> i did
[16:13] <gnomefreak> 11:12 <      gnomefreak+> gnomefreak@Development:~$ sudo -s echo libxfont1 hold  | dpkg --set-selections
[16:14] <gnomefreak> gives errors as above
[16:14] <Hobbsee> no, you didn't.
[16:14] <Hobbsee> one command, hit enter, then the next.
[16:14] <gnomefreak> sudo -s <enter
[16:14] <gnomefreak> ah
[16:15] <stdin> erm, echo "..." | sudo dpkg --set-selections ?
[16:15] <gnomefreak> that might have worked ill let you know
[16:15] <Hobbsee> stdin: i didn't think you had to quote it
[16:15] <Hobbsee> stdin: although you may well have had to sudo "
[16:15] <Hobbsee> quote"
[16:15] <gnomefreak> it worked like a charm thanks Hobbsee :)
[16:15] <stdin> Hobbsee: you don't, but the position is sudo is important
[16:16] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: i dont think those 2 commands are needed on a wii
[16:16] <Hobbsee> stdin: ohhh.  i missed that.
[16:16] <Hobbsee> stdin: you're probably right, actually
[16:16] <PriceChild> gnomefreak: hmm?
[16:16] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: y/w
[16:16] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: sudo -s <enter> than run echo libxfont1 hold | dpkg --set-selections
[16:16] <gnomefreak> replace libxfont with package name
[16:17] <PriceChild> lost you
[16:17] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: the 2 commands to pin a pakcage does it really need a wiki?
[16:17] <PriceChild> gnomefreak: well there already is one
[16:18] <PriceChild> gnomefreak: probably best not to break links, and keep it up to date?
[16:18] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: it needs to be fullky eraqsed and started over i just figured haivn command in !pinning would have been easier
[16:18] <Hobbsee> except for the fact that it looks wrong...
[16:18] <gnomefreak> fully erased
[16:19] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: what looks wrong?
[16:19] <Hobbsee> the pinning wiki
[16:19] <gnomefreak> nothing on it works at all
[16:19] <gnomefreak> people have been saying that since dapper
[16:19] <Pici> yep
[16:20] <gnomefreak> i will be glad to rewrite the wiki to add 2 lines to it and erase everything else but makes more sense to me to be output of !pinning
[16:20] <Hobbsee> yeah
[16:20] <gnomefreak> let me know ill be back a bit later things around her eto do
[16:20] <Hobbsee> although other docs may reference it
[16:21] <Hobbsee> check with mvo, but i'd be reasonably sure that the majority of that wiki stuff, in regards to pinning at least, is deprecated.
[16:21] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: it is as i have tried them over hardy and intrepid
[16:22] <Pici> Does the documentation team routinely go through the wiki and mark pages as depreciated or only for <=$release ?
[16:22] <gnomefreak> im gone for now when i figure out how to reverse search wiki links ill work on that
[16:22] <Hobbsee> Pici: wiki is kinda big for that
[16:22] <gnomefreak> Pici: not by the looks of it
[16:22]  * gnomefreak gone
[16:22] <Pici> Hobbsee: I know, but theres a lot of old information there.
[16:22] <Hobbsee> indeed.
[16:27] <tonyyarusso> say, anyone have squid or other proxy experience?
[16:28] <Pici> I saw a squid once
[16:28] <PriceChild> I still think it would be worth wiping and updating with your working solution, to help prevent broken links.
[16:57] <jdavies> tonyyarusso: help.u.c has some good stuff on it, I however only know how to use it with DansGuardian
[17:10] <tonyyarusso> jdavies: yeah, reading up now.  Is DansGuardian complicated?  I'm setting this up for another school (apparently a particular department needs more lacks rules than the rest, so is going to have a proxy through us instead - complicated)
[17:12] <jdavies> tonyyarusso: no, it's actually quite simply to set up really, I just need to find a way to make stuff from the squid port to go to 80
[17:12] <tonyyarusso> what do you mean?'
[17:12] <jdavies> tonyyarusso: another option (that I use right now) is tinyproxy
[17:14] <Myrtti> WP-Gast@217-162-110-20.dclient.hispeed.ch
[17:14] <Myrtti> if he starts the convo with "poor $nick" ...
[17:41] <no0tic> nice, now our italian council wants -it-ops to be publicly logged
[17:44] <Myrtti> why on earth? errr I mean cool
[17:44] <Amaranth> we can always hide out in the bots' channel :P
[17:55] <PriceChild> Ohhh bascule is an op from ##club-ubuntu, blanked last night trying to figure out where I knew him from.
[17:56] <Pici> PriceChild: duh?
[17:57] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: yeah, i *thought* that nick was familar.
[17:57] <PriceChild> Its been bugging me for ages.
[18:02] <Myrtti> well that figures
[18:07] <Hobbsee> er, why is that channel being given publicity?
[18:07] <Pici> What which who where?
[18:07] <Hobbsee> PriceChild's statement.
[18:08] <PriceChild> I don't think its anything to be overly worried about.
[18:08] <Pici> Hobbsee: Do you really have an issue with someone mentioning it in passing?  
[18:08] <Hobbsee> Pici: depends what the contents of the channel are :)
[18:09] <Hobbsee> Pici: if, it turns out, that it regresses to it's previous state, then yes, i see no reason as to why they should possibly get more users to corrupt.
[18:09] <Hobbsee> we still appear to be getting representatives from there coming in, which is interesting.  (bunny and bascule)
[18:10] <Pici> Hobbsee: Theres no one here that doesnt already know about it, and the people who currently are perusing the logs here are members of that channel already
[18:10] <Hobbsee> Pici: fair enough.  i guess no one will randomly read this channel, short of the CC or something.
[18:11] <Hobbsee> who may also know about it
[18:11] <mneptok> anyone bored enough to go through old IRC logs deserves the hell that is #ubuntu-ops or ##club-u
[18:13] <tonyyarusso> speaking of folks here, is there anyone is /names that nobody recognizes?  (and if not, could you fill me in on who they are?)
[18:13] <Pici> I'm not sure of a few of them myself
[18:14] <Pici> I'm guessing some loco ops, but I thought that thats what #ubuntu-irc was for
[18:16] <tonyyarusso> Precisely.
[18:16] <tonyyarusso> Actually, I think even some of the voiced ones fall into that category.  Perhaps they should be moved over there.
[18:16] <Pici> tonyyarusso: evan-d, jan-c, Nafall-o, nealmc-b, ryanakc-a,  (- added to prevent hilights)
[18:17] <Myrtti> e f jc neal pr ry
[18:18] <Myrtti> *shrug*
[18:18] <tonyyarusso> Pici: well, I know evan-d was a presenter during open week, but don't know much else.  ryan is from -ca, but I don't think an op there - involved with -classroom though.
[18:18]  * tonyyarusso is going away from the computer for a bit
[18:18] <Pici> ompaul usually is good at sorting these people out
[18:18] <no0tic> tonyyarusso, o/ I fall into that category
[18:19] <no0tic> I will part if you prefer
[18:20] <Pici> no0tic: I personally dont have an issue with you being here
[18:28] <Amaranth> boot that jcastro guy out, no idea who he is
[18:28]  * Amaranth hides
[18:29] <Pici> Jan-c has been here forever but I've never seen them talk
[18:29] <Myrtti> she from -wimmen
[18:29] <Pici> Ah
[18:29] <Myrtti> and other places too I guess
[18:30] <Pici> Myrtti: Shes in a bajillion channels
[18:31] <Amaranth> "My involvement in Ubuntu until now includes sitting in several (too many ;) ) Ubuntu IRC-channels"
[18:31] <Amaranth> hehe
[18:31] <Amaranth> guess she is a loco person
[18:36] <Myrtti> that's like from my keyboard
[18:36] <Pici> :)
[18:38] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: Hobbsee https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PinningHowto
[18:38] <gnomefreak> please fix if you see something wrong
[18:39] <gnomefreak> sorry if you got edit error you can get in now
[18:40] <Pici> Cleaned up some spelling
[18:43] <gnomefreak> Pici: thanks
[18:44] <gnomefreak> i have to add one more part and i think its a go for now
[18:45] <gnomefreak> how do you make a note in wikis?
[18:46] <Pici> gnomefreak: prefix the line with ## I believe
[18:47] <gnomefreak> ok ill try it
[18:49] <gnomefreak> Pici: no adding ## makes it hidden
[18:49] <Pici> gnomefreak: I'm sorry, I thought that was what you were looking for
[18:49] <gnomefreak> Pici: no i want a shown note
[18:50] <gnomefreak> i think i knew how and i cant do it now
[18:51] <Pici> ugh
[18:51] <gnomefreak> there cleaned up a bit
[18:52] <gnomefreak> Pici: sorry if i wasnt clear and thanks for the help (can yuse ## on my wiki :)
[18:52] <Pici> gnomefreak: np
[18:52] <gnomefreak> At the time of the making of this Wiki
[18:53] <gnomefreak> there fixed that to make more sense
[18:55] <nealmcb> tonyyarusso, pici, Myrtti, I'm an op in u-us-co, and came by from u-server with a suggestion about the coc factoid that PriceChild is (still?) looking at.  Also, after wading thru the cc meeting I thought I wouldn't leave hastily so I could get some more insight and empathy about your trying jobs :-)  I'd love to say hi at UDS to anyone here who is there....
[18:57] <Myrtti> ah, now I remember
[18:57] <nealmcb> I've been dealing with the ups and downs of virtual community for over 30 years - netnews, mailing lists, muds, moos, irc, jabber, web, etc.
[18:58] <gnomefreak> damn jabber thanks for reminding me
[18:58] <Myrtti> discussion boards are fun. not.
[18:58] <nealmcb> picture etc at http://mcburnett.org/neal/
[18:58]  * gnomefreak goes to play with songbird+mp3s maybe when im done it will work :)
[18:59] <Myrtti> there was this discussion on one of the ones I used to frequent about the most remembable threads
[18:59] <Myrtti> after five years, there's still people who remember the thread that waded thru my relationship ending with one of the regulars and starting with another
[19:00] <no0tic> naciye PMs from #ubuntu
[19:00] <Myrtti> mmm the kettle whistles, tea time
[19:00] <ompaul> no0tic, ? on join or something?
[19:01] <no0tic> ompaul, already D-lined
[19:01] <ompaul> no0tic, ahh nice one
[19:02] <no0tic> they were at least 4 bots from the same IP
[19:04] <gnomefreak> what is -monitor?
[19:04] <Pici> !staff
[19:04] <Pici> gnomefreak: Where the floodbots report status and mingle with ubottu 
[19:04] <gnomefreak> Pici: they were kilines
[19:04] <gnomefreak> ah
[19:04] <gnomefreak> k-lined
[19:05] <gnomefreak> maybe ill work with mvo in morning and see if smart has a pin feature and add that to page
[19:09] <ompaul> Gepep, you are not entitled to pm users
[19:09] <ompaul> in particular in that kind of a fashion 
[19:09] <ompaul> !staff ^^ 
[19:09] <ompaul> !staff
[19:10] <Gepep> i didnt understand
[19:10] <Gepep> my german is bad
[19:10] <ompaul> pm for no reason spamming a channel if it exists no idea
[19:10] <ompaul> hah
[19:10] <Gepep> love you :)
 i love you
 ?
 test
 just love you :)
 please prove you are not a bot
 Please click here #Just_kiddin
 You have won 1.000.000$
 Click here to deliver the prize #Just_kiddin
[19:10] <Gepep> lol
 just love you :)
 hi!
[19:11] <ompaul> don't know about the rest of ye but not interested in that
[19:11] <ompaul> been removed from #ubuntu
[19:13] <ompaul> that is a bot 
[19:13] <ompaul> !staff | it just did the same again
[19:13] <ompaul> tomaw, ^^ 
[19:14] <ompaul> vorian, ^^
[19:14] <tomaw> hrm
[19:15] <ompaul> tomaw, it started to repeat itself
[19:16] <ompaul> tomaw, mind if I add you to the staff factoid?
[19:16] <tomaw> not at all
[19:16] <ompaul> vorian, mind if I add you to the staff factoid?
[19:16] <ompaul> hehe when you have a good idea run it to death
[19:16] <ompaul> ;-)
[19:17] <ompaul> !no staff is <reply> Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel, tomaw or Gary,  I could use a bit of your time :)
[19:17] <ompaul> ohh 
[19:17] <ompaul> @login
 I'll remember that ompaul
[19:18] <ompaul> done! 
[19:20]  * ompaul wonders if he should work on openvpn this evening early or late
[19:21] <Daviey> Why do today, what you can put off until 3am
[19:23]  * tonyyarusso cringes at lack of final comma in !staff.... :(
[19:24] <Pici> tonyyarusso: fixed
[19:26] <tonyyarusso> Pici: yay :)
[19:26] <ompaul> Pici, get out of the factoid factory and get some air ;-)
[19:26] <ompaul> Daviey, point, but maybe I will be asleep then
[19:26] <Pici> ompaul: can't, trapped
[19:26] <ompaul> Pici, ;-)
[19:27] <Myrtti> Pici: we love you
[19:28] <Pici> \o/
[19:28] <ompaul> Myrtti, surprised I would have such a question in -irc?
[19:28] <Myrtti> no
[19:28] <ompaul> I am more surprised that no one answered ;-)
[19:32] <GrimReefer> can someone help me
[19:32] <Myrtti> it's your ident
[19:32] <Pici> GrimReefer: Fix your ident 
[19:32] <Myrtti> change it and you'll get access to the channel
[19:32] <GrimReefer> no i need someone to launch a DOS attack on me
[19:32] <GrimReefer> or something nasty
[19:32] <Pici> Oh, how pleasant.
[19:32] <GrimReefer> whatever you can do
[19:32] <Myrtti> sorry
[19:33] <Myrtti> can't do that
[19:33] <GrimReefer> know anyone that can?
[19:33] <jdong> no
[19:33] <Pici> GrimReefer: No, and you arent going to find that 'help' in #ubuntu or on Freenode
[19:34] <GrimReefer> know a good server?
[19:34] <Pici> GrimReefer: no
[19:34] <GrimReefer> actually tell me where comstud hangs out
[19:34] <jdong> we don't do or refer to people who do that kind of stuff
[19:34] <GrimReefer> alright ill see what i can do elsewhere
[19:34] <GrimReefer> thanks anyway
[19:36] <ompaul> strange
[19:36] <Pici> indeedy.
[19:36] <ompaul> !staff |^^ you might be interested in 
[19:37] <ompaul> scroll back for the win
[19:37] <Pici> He quit, but who knows when he'll be back
[19:37] <ompaul> well there are ways means etc ;-)
[19:44] <ompaul> !bot > StevenTyler 
[20:03] <PriceChild> A lot of staff calls.
[20:04] <Pici> PriceChild: Some of them were factoid edits
[20:06] <ompaul> PriceChild, a network remove for a spam bot gepep
[20:06] <ompaul> and a have a look at grimreefer it might be interesting
[20:14] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: wiki is fixed for now
[20:14] <gnomefreak> im gonna add a few things after speaking to mvo tomorrow
[20:15] <PriceChild> funky
[20:26] <Pici> ompaul: ^
[20:27] <ompaul> Pici, aye just noticed
[20:27] <ompaul> thanks whoever took care of it 
[20:27] <ompaul> ;-0
[20:27] <ompaul> :)
[20:29] <ompaul> persistant ain't he
[20:29] <Pici> Yeah... we probably dont need that mute any longer though.
[20:29] <ompaul> aye
[20:43] <tonyyarusso> I don't remember getting an answer to this earlier - is there a reason for -classroom-chat to be open outside of open week?
[20:45] <PriceChild> Is there a reason for it to be closed?
[20:46] <tonyyarusso> Other than that nobody would be particularly watching it, no.  Not sure if that matters or not.
[20:51] <ompaul> tony look at the bunch who have it on auto join ....
[20:51] <ompaul> it is being watched ;-)
[20:53] <tonyyarusso> well, all righty then
[20:54] <tonyyarusso> ehhhhhh, jono needs to come back to his computer
[20:57] <Myrtti> sometimes, just sometimes I feel like we're the little hobbits trying to save the world
[20:58] <Myrtti> guardians and safekeepers of too much and too important stuff
[20:59] <tonyyarusso> hahaha, sounds about right
[21:03] <mneptok> tonyyarusso: has there been any activity of note there recently?
[21:03] <mneptok> tonyyarusso: rather, activity in any way related to the channel name?
[21:04] <Myrtti> /me compiles the same latex documents over and over again, searching for a bug
[21:05] <tonyyarusso> mneptok: don't think there's been anything at all
[21:07] <mneptok> tonyyarusso: please op yourself and set it +sm. i'll let jono know.
[21:07] <mneptok> tonyyarusso: you're right, there's no need for activity on that channel if the classrrom isn't running.
[21:07] <mneptok> tonyyarusso: or, close it however you think best. +sm seemed like an idea.
[21:08] <tonyyarusso> hmm
[22:06] <ompaul> +m makes sense 
[22:06] <ompaul> if there are people in -classroom and they see a need for it I guess it will be done
[22:06]  * ompaul can do -classroom but not -chat ;-) no access hehe
[22:59] <ompaul> night all
[23:35] <gnomefreak> is there a way to just change the blog address in planet-ubuntu config file and update it?
[23:35] <tonyyarusso> gnomefreak: what do you mean by "just"?
[23:36] <tonyyarusso> should be the same as any other edit.
[23:36] <gnomefreak> tonyyarusso: instead of going through all the set up for a new one
[23:36]  * gnomefreak not sure how to update the edit after its made
[23:36] <gnomefreak> the wiki tells you how to set up a new account
[23:37] <gnomefreak> oh i see it i think
[23:38] <tonyyarusso> eh, read the bzr docs rather than the wiki.
[23:38] <tonyyarusso> I know I've done it, but don't remember offhand.
[23:39] <gnomefreak> bzr commit -m "Added yourusername to Planet Ubuntu"
[23:40] <tonyyarusso> Hmm, one of my coworkers seems to be having some trouble grasping the CMS concept - still thinking in terms of static HTML, manual SQL calls, and individual PHP files.
[23:44] <gnomefreak> i hate bzr
[23:44] <tonyyarusso> I'm not particularly fond of anything more complex than cp or drag and drop.
[23:46] <gnomefreak> :)
[23:47] <gnomefreak> really should add a section for updating/editing planet
[23:47] <gnomefreak> ive done my 2 wikis a year today :)