[00:00] <pochu> Jazzva: that's because Liferea's maintainer switched to it in 1.4.12: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/l/liferea/liferea_1.4.15-1/changelog#versionversion1.4.12-1
[00:00] <pochu> Jazzva: so let's follow him
[00:01] <Jazzva> pochu: K... I'll do that :)
[00:55] <cosmodad> heya. I'm trying to do a Gutsy-backport of easytag-aac using pdebuild. When configure runs, however, MP4 support isn't enabled, and I'm advised to install libmp4v2.
[00:55] <cosmodad> The library, however, is installed. Any clue?
[00:56] <cosmodad> specifically, the library libmp4v2 is installed during pdebuild run.
[01:38] <zul> when is the motu meeting again?
[01:38] <RoAkSoAx> 09 May 04:00 UTC: MOTU
[01:50] <no0tic> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lastfm/+bug/228482
[01:50] <no0tic> is this ok?
[01:50] <emgent> sure.
[01:51] <no0tic> emgent, I don't want your assurance :D
[01:51] <emgent> -.-
[01:52] <emgent> no0tic: "succhese"
[01:52] <emgent> :)
[01:52] <no0tic> emgent, you helped me out, you are not objective
[01:53] <emgent> gh
[01:54] <RoAkSoAx> lol
[01:55] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, so how ya doing with the merging thing?
[01:55] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, I'm on my path of enlightenment, more or less
[01:56] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, cool then
[01:56] <RoAkSoAx> i'm stuck with 1 merge cause i can't test the packages T.T
[01:56] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, I built smootly lastfm on my intrepid chroot
[01:57] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, i build alsa-tools aswell in my intrepid chroot but there are lots of warnings, the same warnings as in the Hardy built... so i was recommended to test it before reporting it... but i cant test it until i have an intrepid vm with sound working
[02:23] <bddebian> Heya
[02:23] <RAOF> Good morning bddebian
[02:24] <bddebian> Hello RAOF
[02:33] <no0tic> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kid3/+bug/227405 - dholbach didn't acked beacuse there's a change in ubuntu, I'm trying to figure out if dh_icons is needed, I'm building the package and installing it on hardy to see if it works with dh_icons or without it. Is it the right way?
[02:34] <sommer> is there significance to the different hues of green on merges.u.c ?
[02:36] <mathiaz> sommer: the colors refer to how long it's been since the last merge
[02:37] <sommer> mathiaz: ah thanks
[02:37] <RAOF> no0tic: dh_icons replaces a dh_installicons (or something) that we had in Ubuntu's debhelper but not in Debian's.  dh_icons will be needed to update the gtk-icon-cache (and the KDE etc one should they get around to making one).
[02:38] <sommer> mathiaz: so the lower ones are oldest?
[02:38] <no0tic> RAOF, dh_iconcache :) now dh_icons is present in debian too but the maintainer didn't added it to his debian/rules
[02:38] <mathiaz> sommer: well - the upper ones are the packages that have *not* been merged for a while
[02:39] <sommer> mathiaz: gotcha
[02:39] <RAOF> no0tic: Then you can't sync it yet, you'll need a merge which adds a dh_icons call.
[02:39] <no0tic> *didn't add
[02:39] <no0tic> RAOF, ok, it is what I'm doing
[02:39] <mathiaz> sommer: red - long time since the last merge - green not so long
[02:39] <crimsun> no0tic: push the debdiff to the Debian maintainer; wait for it to be applied; request sync post.
[02:39] <RAOF> Or, indeed, what crimsun says is better.
[02:40] <bbyever> could someone please review this debdiff before i upload it to lp ? http://paste.ubuntu.com/11040/
[02:40] <no0tic> crimsun, ok, so it's better to wait them to change their package... until when? When could we say, well let's do a merge?
[02:41] <crimsun> no0tic: we're still quite early in the merge cycle; I'd say if the Debian maintainer(s) doesn't apply something within 3 weeks, just go ahead and merge it.
[02:41] <no0tic> crimsun, ok, thank you
[02:41] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, are you the maintainer of alsa-tools?
[02:41] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: used to be.  What's up?
[02:42] <no0tic> crimsun, filing a bug in debian bug control is ok? or it's better to mail the mantainer?
[02:42] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, i tried to merge it, but when building the binary i got lot's of warnings... the same warnings as in the hardy built... so james_w told me to talk to you about it
[02:42] <crimsun> no0tic: mail via bugs@ or control@ with patch attached (and tags + patch) is best
[02:43] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: which set of warnings?
[02:44] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, lots of these: ../pixmaps/lad_banner.xpm:1875: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to 'char*'
[02:44] <RoAkSoAx> ../pixmaps/rme.xpm:2338: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to 'char*'
[02:44] <RoAkSoAx> HDSPMixerSelector.cxx:51: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to 'char*'
[02:44] <RoAkSoAx> ../pixmaps/Slider2.xpm:273: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to 'char*'
[02:44] <RoAkSoAx> ./pixmaps/b_solo.xpm:78: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to 'char*'
[02:44] <RoAkSoAx> ../pixmaps/buttons.xpm:513: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to 'char*'
[02:45] <RoAkSoAx> some others like that
[02:45] <RoAkSoAx> Cus428State.cc:323: warning: enumeration value 'eFaderM' not handled in switch
[02:46] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: yes, those are ok
[02:46] <RoAkSoAx> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: debian/qlo10k1/usr/bin/qlo10k1 shouldn't be linked with libXt.so.6 (it uses none of its symbols).
[02:46] <RoAkSoAx>  (and others with other libraries)
[02:46] <RoAkSoAx> dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${misc:Depends}
[02:46] <RoAkSoAx> pretty much the same as the hardy ia64 built log
[02:47] <crimsun> we should really get r365 in, too.
[02:47] <no0tic> crimsun, bugs@debian.org ? subject: package_version: Use dh_icons in debian/rules  and debdiff attached, ok?
[02:48] <no0tic> crimsun, sorry if I bother you, but I'm not so confident and I don't want to make mistakes :)
[02:48] <RoAkSoAx> these too warning, `debian/alsa-tools/DEBIAN/control' contains user-defined field `Original-Maintainer'
[02:48] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, so what to do?? should i just go ahead and report the merge in LP ?
[02:49] <crimsun> no0tic: submit@bugs.debian.org, with the guidelines at http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting .  See the pseudo-headers.
[02:49] <no0tic> crimsun, thanks
[02:50] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: sure, go ahead and merge it
[02:50] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: please also apply http://hg.alsa-project.org/alsa-tools/raw-rev/9d1e48f8dd5d
[02:51] <crimsun> (out for a bit)
[02:53] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, how to do that...? (i'm in learning process xD)
[02:55] <bbyever> uhh im not sure this debdiff is correct (http://paste.ubuntu.com/11040/), could someone have a look at it before i upload it to lp?
[02:57] <RoAkSoAx> bbyever, i think you do no't have to put this:
[02:57] <RoAkSoAx> debain/rules
[02:57] <RoAkSoAx> -      - added removal of po/*.gmo files
[02:57] <RoAkSoAx> but i do not know for sure
[02:58] <bbyever> but shouldnt all the changes be in the changelog?
[02:59] <RoAkSoAx> bbyever, yeah... but just UBuntu changes, and not debian changes... and that part of the changelog i can see it in the debian changelog part
[02:59] <bbyever> ﻿RoAkSoAx: ahh right
[02:59] <bbyever> ﻿RoAkSoAx:thanks
[02:59] <RoAkSoAx> welcom bbyever
[03:01] <no0tic> crimsun, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11041/ <- this body and debdiff attached
[03:05] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, i believe that if you added dh_icons in debian/rules would be something like http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11043/
[03:05] <RoAkSoAx> but i'm not sure
[03:06] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, I _copied_ from hardy's merge
[03:06] <no0tic>   * Merge from Debian unstable, remaining changes:
[03:06] <no0tic>     - debian/rules:
[03:06] <no0tic>       + Use dh_icons instead dh_iconcache.
[03:06] <RoAkSoAx> didn't know that.. so i guess it is good then :P xD
[03:08] <no0tic> in that case debian package used dh_iconcache, in my case it uses nothing, so it is a bit different
[03:12] <StevenK> no0tic: Debian never had dh_iconcache.
[03:12] <StevenK> dh_iconcache is an Ubuntu-ism, dh_icons is in Debian. If anything, the patch should be commited to Debian.
[03:13] <no0tic> StevenK, "now" also ubuntu uses dh_icons, right?
[03:14] <StevenK> no0tic: Right.
[03:14] <no0tic> User: ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[03:14] <no0tic> Usertags: origin-ubuntu intrepid ubuntu-patch
[03:15] <ember> StevenK but dh_icons is now on gnome.mk in Debian cdbs 0.4.52
[03:15] <no0tic> are these tags ok for the bug report?
[03:15] <StevenK> ember: Okay, so if the package uses gnome.mk it doesn't need to do anything.
[03:16] <no0tic> StevenK, ok, so no need for the bug report?
[03:16] <StevenK> no0tic: Well, does it use gnome.mk?
[03:16] <ember> yes, so no need to commit that change into Debian, and as soon that cdbs get into intrepid that packages if use gnome.mk really doesnt need that delta
[03:16] <StevenK> CDBS has been merged in Intrepid already
[03:17] <ember> cool
[03:17] <no0tic> StevenK, it is a kde package, does it make any difference?
[03:17] <RoAkSoAx> hey guys, can you help me? how to apply this: http://hg.alsa-project.org/alsa-tools/raw-rev/9d1e48f8dd5d
[03:17] <StevenK> no0tic: I'd need to check myself
[03:19] <no0tic> StevenK, sorry, but I'm learning how things work.. it's only few days since I started in this field :)
[03:20] <StevenK> no0tic: What is the package name?
[03:20] <no0tic> StevenK, kid3
[03:21] <StevenK> no0tic: Give me a few to do the merge myself
[03:21] <no0tic> I'll be here :)
[03:24] <jdong> StevenK: you're gonna be merging kid3? that sounds hot ;-)
[03:24] <jdong> *ducks*
[03:25] <StevenK> jdong: No, no0tic is.
[03:25] <StevenK> I'm helping.
[03:25] <jdong> StevenK: whoa.... didn't \sh blog about something like that a few days ago on Planet?
[03:25]  * jdong is going to hell
[03:25] <StevenK> no0tic: Right, the Debian source of kid3 does not include dh_icons in it's debian/rules, and we do.
[03:26] <StevenK> no0tic: So the delta is adding dh_icons, and it's *adding*, not replacing dh_iconcache. A bug report should be submitted to Debian's kid3 maintainer asking them to include dh_icons
[03:26] <no0tic> StevenK, ok
[03:29] <no0tic> StevenK, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11041/  this would be the bug report mail body at which I will attach the debdiff
[03:29] <StevenK> no0tic: You need to strip the debdiff to only include the relevant changes -- the Debian package does not need the Maintainer change, or the Ubuntu changelog entries.
[03:30] <no0tic> StevenK, ok
[03:30] <StevenK> no0tic: I'd suggest you word it, rather than pasting from the changelog too. "The Ubuntu package of kid3 uses dh_icons during its build to update the icon cache during installation, I am attaching a patch to debian/rules that adds it."
[03:31] <no0tic> StevenK, thank you very much, once finished I'll post here the patch
[03:32] <ember> no0tic here's an example http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=464459
[03:34] <no0tic> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11048/ <- this is the patch I'm attaching
[03:38] <RoAkSoAx> can anyone help me on applying this?? http://hg.alsa-project.org/alsa-tools/raw-rev/9d1e48f8dd5d i dunno how to do it! :( (i'm just starting with packaging and stuff)
[03:40] <StevenK> no0tic: That patch looks good.
[03:40] <no0tic> StevenK, fine, I'm posting then, thanks a lot
[03:42] <no0tic> StevenK, crimsun advised me to wait some time before continuing in the merge. If debian does the change then we can sync
[03:42] <StevenK> no0tic: Exactly.
[03:44] <jdong> ^^ ooh I need to track him down :)
[03:46] <emgent> :D
[03:46] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, how did you made the patch?
[03:46] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, by hand
[03:46] <no0tic> RoAkSoAx, vim'ed the debdiff :)
[03:47] <RoAkSoAx> no0tic, lol ... i guess i have to do the same thing then xD :)
[04:15] <LaserJock> soo
[04:15] <LaserJock> MOTU Meeting in 45 min?
[04:18] <ajmitch> there is?
[04:19] <LaserJock> I believe so
[04:19] <ajmitch> I'd better hide then
[04:27] <TheMuso> Don't think there is anything on the agenda yet.
[04:27] <TheMuso> I think it has something to do with the time of day.
[04:29] <ajmitch> what, being close to beer o'clock?
[04:31] <LaserJock> I was gonna maybe add a couple items
[04:35] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Go for it.
[04:39] <LaserJock> ok, added
[04:40]  * ajmitch looks
[04:41] <ajmitch> hm, a fan club
[04:41] <ajmitch> I could join one of those
[04:50] <RoAkSoAx> someone available to help me with something related to alsa-tools?
[04:50] <TheMuso> LaserJock: I do wonder whether we will get a deacent turn out however.
[04:51] <persia_> It's the 04:00 meeting, which is traditionally the least well attended...
[04:58] <LaserJock> TheMuso: well, I just didn't want a meeting without anything :-0
[04:58] <LaserJock> I'm mostly just interested chatting about things
[04:58]  * TheMuso nods.
[05:47] <LaserJock> my goal is to make the 04:00 MOTU Meeting *the* place to be ;-)
[05:48] <ajmitch> isn't it already?
[05:48] <LaserJock> no, it's the least attended one
[05:48] <LaserJock> I gotta start bringing pizza or something
[05:48] <LaserJock> that works for grad students
[05:49]  * ajmitch had pizza for lunch today
[05:49] <ajmitch> it was good :)
[05:50] <LaserJock> darn
[05:50]  * RAOF is making pizza for dinner
[05:50] <LaserJock> now I'm craving a pepperoni pizza
[05:52]  * TheMuso had pizza the other night.
[05:52] <ajmitch> yeah, it was a bit of foreigners being shown the local culture :)
[05:52] <virtuald> shut up, i have about $40 for the next 10 days
[05:52] <TheMuso> Pizza seems to be a geek food.
[05:52] <RAOF> Simple, cheap, and delivered.
[05:52] <RoAkSoAx> lol =)
[05:53] <ajmitch> TheMuso: considering who I was with, I'm not surprised that pizza was the suggestion
[05:53]  * ajmitch is glad that it's mostly stopped raining now though
[05:54] <LaserJock> ok, so I'm gonna email -motu about the "fanclub" team and email the rest of MOTU SRU about 7-day aging
[05:54] <LaserJock> that's all right?
[05:54] <ajmitch> that's what was agreed on, iirc
[05:55] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, what will be the specific purpose of having the fan club?
[05:55] <LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: to give a team for new people to identify with MOTU
[05:56] <LaserJock> right now we have no "entry-level" team
[05:56] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, but.. besides?? they should be given specific task so that they feel more identified with the team
[05:56] <LaserJock> well, I'm not sure what to do there
[05:57] <LaserJock> in the Doc Team we have the Documentation Students team
[05:57] <LaserJock> and they are part of a mentoring program
[05:57] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, for example.. they could have the task to help newbies ... because there is a waiting list to Obtain a MOTU Mentor
[05:57] <LaserJock> and I think they have a copy of the docs in bzr for them to play with there
[05:57] <RoAkSoAx> they could be like "junior mentors"
[05:58]  * TheMuso will get the minutes done some time this weekend.
[05:58] <RoAkSoAx> i believe that if you gonna make a fanclub, you should give them specific tasks so that they can feel more involved than just being part of another LP team
[05:58] <LaserJock> that makes some sense
[05:59] <LaserJock> I'm just not sure how to "give" them things
[05:59] <bbyever> assign them to bitsize bugs
[06:00] <RoAkSoAx> for example, nxvl has been a great teacher to me and helped introducing me to the packaging world and stuff.. they could be like junior mentors of newbies.. because nowadays there is a wait list for a MOTU mentor...
[06:00] <bbyever> or other simple tasks
[06:00] <LaserJock> I was just thinking of something along those lines
[06:00] <RoAkSoAx> what bbyever says makes sense too
[06:00] <LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: well, we just created a Universe Contributors team
[06:00] <LaserJock> I would see that team as more the "experienced non-MOTUs"
[06:00] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, yeah i now, i'm just giving you ideas of how to improve things xD
[06:01] <LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: well, do you think an entry-level team would be useful
[06:01] <RoAkSoAx> if its experienced non-MOTUs, would be great to have them mentoring newbs
[06:01] <persia_> LaserJock: Could you please not use "fan club", but instead something more general, that emphasised that they was to be members of some team, rather than that they are fans of MOTU?
[06:01] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, i believe so... but if you have specifics task for that team...
[06:01] <LaserJock> persia_: sure, I just couldn't think of a short name for it
[06:02] <RoAkSoAx> specify*
[06:02] <persia_> LaserJock: Understood.  I just think "fan club" is misleading.
[06:02] <LaserJock> persia_: well, it seemed to me that that was along the lines of what sebner was talking about
[06:02] <LaserJock> although maybe my definition of "fan club" is not quite accurate
[06:03] <persia_> See, I'd disagree.  I think he wanted to be part of a group that contributed something, not a group that was a fan of something.
[06:03] <LaserJock> ah
[06:03] <persia_> Yes: it's just semantics.  I disagree with your definition of "fan club", not your other thoughts about it.
[06:03] <LaserJock> i took him to me just something to say "heah, I like MOTU"
[06:03] <ajmitch> LaserJock: it's people like me who want to be fans
[06:04] <LaserJock> as an identification rather than contributory motivation
[06:04] <persia_> No.  He wanted a badge that said he was someone who was working on stuff, and planned to have cooler badges soon.
[06:04] <LaserJock> ok, i gotcha
[06:05] <RoAkSoAx> but that team should be created not to give a badge to users who are working on stuff... that team should be a team with specific tasks that way they will have certain "resposibility"
[06:05] <LaserJock> it would be cool if we could make such a team a member of ubuntu-bugcontrol
[06:05] <LaserJock> so as to say "these are the people working on MOTU bugs/tasks"
[06:06] <LaserJock> obviously we wouldn't do an purely open team then
[06:06] <persia_> RoAkSoAx: I don't think it appropriate to pass responsibility to an open team: we should know someone for a while before they are assumed to be responsible.  Doesn't mean people not in closed teams aren't responsible, or can't help, only that they ought work with others.
[06:06] <persia_> Anyway, I have to be off, as for me, now is not an ideal time.  I'll read logs later, and hope for more.
[06:06] <LaserJock> but a very low "barrier"
[06:07] <LaserJock> I'm just not sure that an open team is what we want
[06:07] <LaserJock> in the case of the Doc Students team
[06:07] <RoAkSoAx> persia, yes but, LaserJock is saying that the team is for experienced non-MOTUs that want to be MOTUs... that way.. if you give them responsibilities... you will know who is suitable to become a MOTU and who's not
[06:07] <LaserJock> all somebody has to do is send an email saying "heah, I'd love to join" and we add them
[06:08] <LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: no, I said we already have such a team
[06:08] <LaserJock> what we're wondering about is an entry-level team
[06:08] <LaserJock> for newish people
[06:08] <bbyever> personaly i think such a team would only be useful as a "mentor waiting list" to give them simple things to do
[06:08] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, in the spanish translations team, people have to work on translations for 3 months. After that they can apply, if they have good translations and the team accepts them as official translators they will have a responsibility, that is not just to translate.. but to review an correct and so on
[06:09] <LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: right
[06:09] <RoAkSoAx> so, that way you ensure that things go right
[06:09] <LaserJock> right now we have MOTU
[06:10] <LaserJock> and Universe Contributors (which is experienced non-MOTUs)
[06:10] <LaserJock> the question is whether we need yet another team for new people just getting started
[06:10] <RoAkSoAx> so if you create the newbie team... would be a team of people who needs mentoring and guidance...
[06:11] <bbyever> IMO no
[06:11] <LaserJock> I guess "need" is also maybe a bad word
[06:11] <LaserJock> the question is if people want or would be helped by such a team
[06:12] <bbyever> but the mentor already serves that purpose
[06:12] <RoAkSoAx> but if they are part of a team, i would say that it would be better to give some responsibilities, guidance and mentoring so that way they can feel more involved
[06:12] <bbyever> mentor program*
[06:12] <RoAkSoAx> bbyever, but not everyone gets a mentor
[06:12] <RoAkSoAx> as far as i've heard, there is a waiting list to obtain a mentor
[06:13] <RoAkSoAx> so what about people who does not have a mentor, and many times are on their own?
[06:13] <LaserJock> well
[06:13] <LaserJock> there are a few different issues there
[06:13] <LaserJock> one is that "mentoring" doesn't necessarily mean a formal mentor/mentee relationship
[06:14] <LaserJock> I consider MOTU as a team to often be mentors for people wanting to become MOTUs
[06:14] <LaserJock> it's more informal, but that's kinda the idea
[06:14] <LaserJock> we also have a formal Mentoring program
[06:15] <LaserJock> which, as I understand it, is stalled out because of a lack of mentors
[06:16] <RoAkSoAx> maybe but for example, as i said, nxvl has been a great mentor to me... he has helped me a lot to get started and he is trying to get the Other Ubuntu-PE members involved too so that is good
[06:16] <LaserJock> sure
[06:16] <LaserJock> that's great
[06:16]  * jdong has thought "come in here and ask a question" has worked beautifully
[06:16] <LaserJock> jdong: me too
[06:16] <jdong> a dedicated mentor has to work on a schedule to meet up with the mentee
[06:16] <jdong> which can work out less favorably than just pitching problems to this open forum
[06:16] <LaserJock> however, some people do really prefer a one-on-one interaction
[06:17] <LaserJock> I tend to think mentoring works best as sort of an organic process, to use a fad phrase
[06:17] <RAOF> (You mean involving carbon-carbon bonds? :))
[06:18] <RoAkSoAx> but, besides of having a mentor that has to work on a schedule, you could have other kind of mentors, that can help users to get started with packaging... perfect example: nxvl to me and other peruvian members
[06:18] <RoAkSoAx> he does not have the obligation to mentor me... but he does whenever he cans
[06:19] <RoAkSoAx> and would be great to have those kind of "mentors"... not one who has to do it... but one that wants to do it
[06:20] <RoAkSoAx> for example, offering Universe Contributors to mentor 2 people a year.... or something like that... they would have to work on a schedule, but they will be like the primary support of the learner
[06:23] <LaserJock> mentoring is just a really tough thing
[06:23] <LaserJock> we've not really had all that high of a success rate with formal mentoring programs
[06:23] <LaserJock> and the mentors have to put in lots of time
[06:23] <jdong> I personally have no time in my schedule to do a full-time mentoring thing
[06:24] <jdong> my workflow is I'm in here for 5 minutes, out for 10-20 minutes, repeated over 18 hours
[06:24] <jdong> and I think I still do a okay job of answering questions that pop in and out of here
[06:24] <jdong> but I wouldn't be able to contribute meaningfully to a 1:1 mentorship program
[06:24] <cbx33> GLARG!!
[06:24] <RoAkSoAx> yeah, i don't expect every MOTU to be a formal mentor... i know people have to do other things besides mentoring...
[06:25] <jdong> cbx33: is that the 2nd argument to initializing OpenGL?
[06:25] <cbx33> no it's the pain I'm about to feel by slamming my own head into a table
[06:25] <LaserJock> cbx33: Pete!
[06:26] <jdong> RoAkSoAx: but if there's reasons that you feel a formal mentor works better for some than just asking questions to the channel / mailing list, please do try to organize that into a wiki page / spec
[06:26] <cbx33> hey LaserJock
[06:26] <jdong> I would be interested in reading that
[06:27] <jdong> but speaking of 5 minutes, time to go deliver a hardcopy paper
[06:27] <cbx33> kdenlive
[06:27] <cbx33> why do you hate me so
[06:27] <RoAkSoAx> jdong, i believe that a formal mentor is just to have someone to be the one who answers all your questions...
[06:27]  * jdong shoves HandBrake in cbx33's face
[06:27] <RoAkSoAx> it would be better to have 1 session a week to answer questions or maybe half an hour every day or something like that
[06:28] <jdong> cbx33: try a build system that uses Jam and wgets its dependencies from random places to statically link against them :D
[06:28] <jdong> while. building.
[06:28] <cbx33> jdong: you think that'll help?
[06:28] <cbx33> I'm willing to try anything
[06:28] <jdong> cbx33: haha, no, that won't help
[06:29]  * cbx33 jumps up and down
[06:29] <jdong> that's what handbrake does and it's a nightmare for me
[06:29]  * cbx33 starts to cry in the corner
[06:29] <cbx33> hehehe sorry jdong
[06:29] <cbx33> wow jsgotangco
[06:29]  * jdong pets cbx33 
[06:29] <cbx33> long time
[06:30] <cbx33> I just wanna get ep 0.3 of progbox.vid done
[06:30] <jsgotangco> greetings
[06:30] <cbx33> I spent 4-5 hours getting footage together
[06:30] <cbx33> and editing audio
[06:31] <ajmitch> hello cbx33
[06:31] <cbx33> hey ajmitch
[06:31] <cbx33> WARNING: use unsermake instead of make or use a wrapper script, e.g. makeobj!!!
[06:31] <cbx33> unsermake all
[06:31] <cbx33> /bin/bash: unsermake: command not found
[06:31] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, it would be great for example, to have that new team created... and help those users in packaging or giving them bugs to do in a week or so (and give them special lessons)... and help them resolving the issues and stuff like that... than just having a team to say, ok i have a badge
[06:31] <cbx33> what can i do about that?
[06:31] <jdong> cbx33: install unsermake
[06:31] <cbx33> can't
[06:31] <cbx33> doesn't exist in repo
[06:32] <jdong> cbx33: well you're gonna have to grab it from KDE SVN then
[06:32] <cbx33> more SVN
[06:32] <cbx33> GAAHHH!!!
[06:32] <cbx33> hehehe
[06:32] <jdong> http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=unsermake
[06:32] <jdong> yeah chasing down build deps can be a real pain
[06:32] <cbx33> hahaha
[06:32] <cbx33> well at least the KDE team tell me I'm gonna fail
[06:32] <cbx33> Installation notes
[06:32] <cbx33> You won't be probably able to install this, because there are no installation notes and those generic do not work. Shame, unusability at its best.
[06:32] <jdong> ignore everything after Creating Slackware .tgz package with unsermake
[06:33] <RAOF> jdong: Is that page for real?
[06:33] <jdong> cbx33: lol I don't think that's true
[06:33] <cbx33> heheh
[06:33] <jdong> RAOF: sounds like someone REALLY grumpy one night vandalized the header :)
[06:33] <LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: I undestand. I just wonder if we can really commit to that
[06:34] <LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: I don't want to end up with a team that's just full of disappointed people
[06:34] <RAOF> A compelling replacement for autotools sounds fun.
[06:35] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, that is true... and i believe that if you create a team to identify those who want to become a motu someday... would not help much
[06:35] <jdong> RAOF: apparently unsermake builds KDE some 2x faster
[06:35] <cbx33> oh man
[06:35] <cbx33> the svn link is wrong
[06:35] <jdong> RAOF: I know a lot of Gentoovians use it
[06:35] <RAOF> jdong: My excitement knows no bounds.
[06:35] <jdong> RAOF: lol. I can tell you're drooling over this.
[06:36] <RAOF> Because, you know, I build KDE all the time.
[06:36] <jdong> RAOF: lol I said Gentoovians, didn't I? :D
[06:36] <RoAkSoAx> for example, i joined the marketing team long time ago... but... there was nothing specific to do than just to do marketing on your own... so i thought... why should i be part of this team... if it would be the same thing if i'm not part of the team... so that's why i think there should be a purpose with specific tasks for that team
[06:36] <jdong> that's a bi-nightly ritual
[06:36] <LaserJock> I'm using cmake quite a bit these days, it's not too bad
[06:37] <RAOF> It'd be nice to have a tool with some CIL smarts.
[06:37] <LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: I fully realize what you're saying. That was my initial objection to creating such a team.
[06:37] <LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: however, I'm uncertain how we'd actually go about giving a team like that tasks or purpose
[06:38] <bbyever> LaserJock: IMO, this new team should just have tasks set out every weak, like a page of bitesize bugs. it could be just while waiting for an actual mentor.
[06:38] <cbx33> right well there's my 30 mins up for the day
[06:38] <LaserJock> bbyever: well, how would one actually give them the list?
[06:38] <cbx33> :(
[06:38] <RoAkSoAx> bbyever, that is a good idea
[06:38] <bbyever> wiki or mailling list
[06:39] <bbyever> lp teams now have mailling lists
[06:40] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, like saying: ok these week you can work in these bugs, A B and C... you can work with someone else or by yourself... during the week we'll have a session for troubleshooting and by the end of the week we'll review the bugs or something like that...
[06:40] <LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: no, like I'm saying, how can we communicate with these people
[06:40] <LaserJock> it's just a Launchpad team
[06:41] <LaserJock> there's no mailing list, etc.
[06:41] <LaserJock> so how are we to "tell" them anything?
[06:41] <bbyever> LaserJock: lp teams do have mailling lists
[06:41] <LaserJock> well
[06:41] <bbyever> afaik
[06:41] <RoAkSoAx> i believe there are lists for lp teams right?
[06:41] <LaserJock> the CC has requested that we not use those for now
[06:42] <LaserJock> eventually that may work, though it would mean yet another mailing list
[06:42] <RoAkSoAx> so, i believe that the people who are going to be in that team... are also suscribed to motu ML and motu-mentors right?? so that could be a way of communication... other way could be the wiki page
[06:42] <cbx33> unsermake doesn't seem to be in SVN anymore
[06:42] <cbx33> kdenonbeta is gone
[06:45] <bbyever> also, there has to be some sort of interest or initiative from the people who join. they can't expect to be gives everything, and joining an ubuntu mailling list isn't so hard...
[06:45] <LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: we've no way of knowing if they are subscribed to those lists
[06:45] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, and besides.. if someone joins that team.. it is because they are committed to become a motu or at least to learn... so if they are committed, the communication method could be any! and maybe using the current motu ML
[06:46] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, one of the requirements to join the team could be to suscribe to those lists...
[06:46] <bbyever> I agree with roaksoax
[06:47] <LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: well, an open  team means there are no controls on who joins
[06:48] <LaserJock> but if we did have a closed team that said "If you'd like to join this team people interested in contributing to Universe please email an introduction to ubuntu-motu" ?
[06:48] <RoAkSoAx> yes
[06:48] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, exactly... that way you will know who of those people are commited to contributing
[06:48] <bbyever> I like that better
[06:48] <bbyever> otherwise it would be pointless even having a team
[06:49] <RoAkSoAx> not just joining a team to have more badges and say "ok i'm a team member of 5 teams, i'm of 6 teams" and so on...
[06:49] <LaserJock> bbyever: well, it's  not exactly pointless, but maybe not all that useful
[06:49] <LaserJock> having a closed team does require maintainence
[06:50] <LaserJock> we'd need people who can add people
[06:51] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, yes... those people could send a presentation mail to the motu list, after the presentation someone approves him on the team
[06:51] <bbyever> the way I see it is: an open team requiering responsibility from the people joining or a closed team requiering responsibility from inside
[06:52] <RoAkSoAx> if its an open team... every single one who wants to be part of ubuntu, could join the team but will have no idea what that team is for...
[06:53] <RoAkSoAx> but, if it is a close team... you filter people and just add those who are really interested in become part of motu
[06:53] <bbyever> they would, but they'd have to read wiki and join lists
[06:53] <RoAkSoAx> bbyever, by doing that.. they will show their commitment to the team...
[06:53] <bbyever> exacly
[06:54] <bbyever> an open team filters itself
[06:55] <RoAkSoAx> yeah... for example, if LoCo's where open teams... everybody could join but what for... team members in a LoCo team are team members because they committed themselves to help the community through the LoCo team, and they had to fit some requirements to joing the team...
[06:56] <RoAkSoAx> otherwise... we will have lots of people on the team with no use...
[06:57] <RoAkSoAx> for example, in the peruvian team there are hundreds suscribed in the ML, and in the website... but there are few in the LP team... Those who are suscribed in the LP team (including myself) are the ones who really committed to work for the team and are the ones who doing something about it
[06:58] <bbyever> same in the mx team
[06:58] <RoAkSoAx> because many others say, ok i want to be part of the team, but they don't show their commitment by just suscribing to a ML or a website...
[06:58] <nxvl> RoAkSoAx: go merge!
[06:59] <RoAkSoAx> nxvl, we're discussing a serious issue here... master yoda!!
[06:59] <RAOF> I'm not sure what this emphasis on 'commitment' is for.  Surely people demonstrate commitment by actually _doing_ things?  There's plenty to do, and plenty for someone just starting out to do.
[07:00] <RoAkSoAx> RAOF, yeah.. that's why if a new team is created... members of that team should show their commitment by fitting certain requirements
[07:00] <nxvl> what's the topic
[07:00] <tbielawa> evening
[07:00] <bbyever> RAOF: the thing is new people don't always know what to do
[07:00] <nxvl> i have no time to scrollback now
[07:00] <LaserJock> nxvl: we were discussing the formation of a LP team for new people to MOTU
[07:01] <RAOF> bbyever: Right.  But is the best solution a new team?
[07:01] <cbx33> Personally I think not
[07:01] <LaserJock> rather, if such a team were desirable to have
[07:01] <nxvl> bbyever: that's why the Wiki Pages are for, and the team stand for
[07:01] <nxvl> LaserJock: the motu contributors thing?
[07:01] <tbielawa> as a person new to MOTU I think I'd find it more confusing
[07:01] <tbielawa> well maintained wiki ftw
[07:02] <RoAkSoAx> and it is pointless to have and open team without a purpose...
[07:02] <nxvl> LaserJock: the one we discuss on the list some weeks ago?
[07:02] <RAOF> Is a better solution to add something to w.u.c/MOTU?  Something like 'if you're not sure what to do, join #ubuntu-motu or pipe up on ubuntu-motu@l.u.c'?
[07:02] <LaserJock> nxvl: yeah, now that we turned u-u-c into revu-uploaders we wondered if a general team for people wanting to get involved would be appropriate
[07:02] <nxvl> i think not
[07:02] <nxvl> ScottK has a good point on this
[07:02] <RoAkSoAx> nxvl, not if it's an open team...
[07:02] <nxvl> and i think like him
[07:03] <LaserJock> nxvl: uh oh ;-)
[07:03] <nxvl> MOTU developers and contributors are to splited
[07:03] <nxvl> there are 2 ML
[07:03] <nxvl> -motu and -motu-mentors
[07:03] <bbyever> RAOF that could be a better solution
[07:04] <nxvl> that split the community on "people who know what they are doing come here, and people who doesn't know go there"
[07:04] <nxvl> so you are making a barreer for new contributors
[07:04] <nxvl> and making things harder for them
[07:04] <nxvl> and that's now that we need to look for
[07:04] <nxvl> it will be better if everyone is on the same ML and same places
[07:04] <RoAkSoAx> nxvl, we were suggesting to use the -motu list or -motu-mentors list for those new contributors if the new team is to be created
[07:05] <nxvl> so the new contributors also know the other contributors and community members so they can help them
[07:05] <RAOF> nxvl: Right.  I wasn't even really aware of -motu-mentors.  Does it have a lot of traffic?
[07:05] <nxvl> RAOF: not really
[07:05] <nxvl> RAOF: but new contributors suscribe themselfs to it
[07:06] <RoAkSoAx> i'm suscribed to motu-mentors =)
[07:06] <nxvl> i will suggest to remove -mentors ML i don;t see the point
[07:06] <nxvl> it only make new contributors be afraid to ask on -motu
[07:07] <RAOF> I agree there.
[07:07] <mok0_> nxvl: ... and it's mostly duplicates of -motu anyway
[07:07] <cbx33> do we have a good documentation set yet for being a MOTU
[07:07] <nxvl> mok0_: yes, most of the mails are send to the 2 ML
[07:07] <nxvl> cbx33: yes
[07:08] <cbx33> nxvl: link me
[07:08] <RAOF> cbx33: By 'being a MOTU' you mean the various tasks we perform, or the process of becoming a MOTU?
[07:08] <cbx33> and what the processes are for new packages
[07:08] <cbx33> and where to go when you get stuck
[07:08] <cbx33> and commen questions asked
[07:08] <cbx33> etc
[07:08] <nxvl> cbx33: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
[07:09] <nxvl> there are documents in the wiki for everything
[07:09] <nxvl> or almost everything
[07:09] <LaserJock> cbx33: it's probably better than when you started, but still lots that could be done
[07:09] <cbx33> right
[07:09] <nxvl> you just need to learn what are you seraching for
[07:09] <cbx33> LaserJock: to be honest I think that's the number one thing you can do
[07:09] <cbx33> make a MOTU handbook
[07:10] <LaserJock> nxvl: I don't think the problem is so much that info isn't there, but rather it's hard to find
[07:10] <cbx33> even make it as a PDF and a lulu.com download
[07:10] <cbx33> give them a manual so you can say RTFM :p
[07:10] <nxvl> LaserJock: that's right
[07:10] <cbx33> also
[07:10] <nxvl> cbx33: there are a lot of MOTU Jurneys out there
[07:11] <nxvl> effie_jayx wrote one some moths ago
[07:11] <nxvl> months
[07:11] <cbx33> I'd look at giving people in the MOTU community almost like job titles.....
[07:11] <cbx33> so you can say
[07:11] <cbx33> MOTU manager does this
[07:11] <cbx33> instead of relying on a name of a person
[07:11] <cbx33> which may change 6 months away
[07:11] <nxvl> heh
[07:11] <nxvl> ScottK is missing this conversation
[07:11] <cbx33> give them a chain of command
[07:12] <RoAkSoAx> it would also be great to have it in the system documentation xD
[07:12] <cbx33> who can I go to if someone is holding my stuff up
[07:12] <cbx33> etc
[07:12] <nxvl> if he were there i'm almost sure he will be reneging
[07:12] <LaserJock> cbx33: have a look at wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Leaders
[07:12] <cbx33> if that isn't in place....it should be
[07:12] <cbx33> LaserJock: ko
[07:12] <cbx33> I've been out of touch for a while
[07:12] <RoAkSoAx> the documentation could be improved a lot by giving actual examples of how doing merges, patches and stuff like that.. and step by step
[07:13] <cbx33> I'm using my kdenlive rage to drive me on
[07:13] <cbx33> RoAkSoAx: definitely
[07:13] <cbx33> and then put it in a book
[07:13] <cbx33> "So you want to be a MOTU"
[07:13] <cbx33> :p
[07:13] <RoAkSoAx> yeah
[07:13] <RoAkSoAx> "The Ubuntu MOTU Book"
[07:13] <RoAkSoAx> with lots of recipes and stuff like that
[07:14] <cbx33> yup
[07:14] <cbx33> i actually see a whole range of Ubuntu books
[07:14] <nxvl> cbx33: dholbach is the person to ask for it
[07:14] <cbx33> so you want to be a ........
[07:14] <cbx33> MOTU
[07:14] <cbx33> Developer
[07:14] <cbx33> Documentor
[07:14] <RoAkSoAx> Translator
[07:14] <RoAkSoAx> xD
[07:14] <cbx33> yup
[07:14] <cbx33> Artist
[07:14] <cbx33> Tester
[07:14] <nxvl> well
[07:14] <nxvl> need to sleep
[07:15] <cbx33> nn nxvl
[07:15] <RoAkSoAx> bye nxvl good look with "contabilidad" (i don't remember the translation for that lol :P)
[07:15] <nxvl> tomorrow i need to be in training at 8:45 (it is 1:15 here)
[07:15] <nxvl> RoAkSoAx: es2en@bot.talk.google.com
[07:15] <nxvl> :D
[07:15] <RoAkSoAx> tomorrow... i don't have anything else to do besides doing my thesis :P
[07:16] <RoAkSoAx> nxvl, i remembered: accounting :P
[07:16] <nxvl> RoAkSoAx: merge something i don't see your name on the intrepid-changes ML yet
[07:16] <cbx33> RoAkSoAx: ahhh I remember doing mine
[07:16] <cbx33> crikey was about 5 years ago now
[07:16] <nxvl> bye
[07:17] <RoAkSoAx> nxvl, i have virt-viewer in whishlist and have to finish alsa-tools
[07:17] <RoAkSoAx> cbx33, i just obtained my BS in SYstems Engineer (Similar to Computer Science) last year.. and know i'm finishing my thesis...
[07:17] <cbx33> cool
[07:17] <RoAkSoAx> and since i'm on "vacations", cuz i'm not doing anything else besides that
[07:18] <RoAkSoAx> :)
[07:18] <bbyever> Its late here as well
[07:18] <bbyever> see ya guys
[07:18] <cbx33> LaserJock: can you see what I see?
[07:20] <LaserJock> sorry, was afk for a minute
[07:20] <LaserJock> well, here's the deal
[07:20] <cbx33> bbl
[07:20] <cbx33> :p
[07:20] <LaserJock> real life examples and recipes are what everybody wants
[07:20] <LaserJock> but they're very very difficult to do and maintain
[07:21] <LaserJock> I've been doing merging examples for somethign like 2 years
[07:21] <LaserJock> they just get outdated, and because each package is so different I'm not sure people get out all that much more out of them
[07:22] <LaserJock> a MOTU Handbook would quickly swell into a monster that nobody would want to write or read I'm afraid
[07:22] <LaserJock> I *have* been thinking about a MOTU quick reference
[07:22] <cbx33> heheh
[07:22] <cbx33> well
[07:22] <LaserJock> doing one each for MOTUs, Contributors, and Triagers
[07:23] <cbx33> I have an idea....
[07:23] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, yeah but you can have categories like "merges with conflicts in debian/control" "merges with conflicts with patches" or for example, how to resolve issues in debian/rules and so on
[07:23] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, that would be a great idea
[07:23] <cbx33> yes
[07:23] <LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: yeah, but each package is different
[07:23] <cbx33> Trye
[07:23] <cbx33> but.
[07:23] <LaserJock> and people will complain "I did it just like the recipe but it didn't work, your documentation sucks!"
[07:23] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, yeah i know that's the problem but all of'em have some similarities.. and someone could cover the basics...
[07:24] <cbx33> you gotta think......if these people are going to contribute you want people who are semi-intelligent
[07:24] <LaserJock> cbx33: don't start me down that road
[07:24] <cbx33> Well
[07:24] <RoAkSoAx> but giving a big banner "This doc only covers the basics with conflicts in debian/control. Beware... each package is different..." and stuff like that
[07:25] <cbx33> my point, if they are not able to take a concept and adapt it
[07:25] <cbx33> ....
[07:25] <RoAkSoAx> cbx33, i think the same
[07:25] <LaserJock> cbx33: seriously, you don't want me to go there
[07:25] <cbx33> "Itold you not to go there, I Told you not to go there"
[07:26] <cbx33> name that film
[07:26] <cbx33> :)
[07:26] <RoAkSoAx> lol
[07:30] <tbielawa> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted That has helped me get started
[07:30] <tbielawa> seemed pretty straight forward
[07:33] <LaserJock> in some ways I think some "issues" are perhaps due to different learning styles
[07:33] <LaserJock> some people do quite well if you just point them to docs to read
[07:33] <LaserJock> other's just don't get anywhere 'til they get their hands dirty
[07:33] <mok0_> Getting Started with MOTU makes no sense IMHO
[07:34] <LaserJock> in practice we need to try to effectively teach to both
[07:35] <LaserJock> mok0_: care to elaborate?
[07:35] <LaserJock> I kind of agree with you, but wonder what things are problematic for you
[07:35] <mok0_> It is not clear what it means "get started in MOTU"
[07:36] <mok0_> ... and that whole page should be updated to replace "motu" with "contributor"
[07:36] <tbielawa> that gets me too
[07:37] <tbielawa> where they are drawing the line between contributors and MOTUs
[07:38] <LaserJock> ah
[07:38] <LaserJock> see, that's something too
[07:38] <LaserJock> we have dual meanings to MOTU often
[07:38] <LaserJock> we talk about MOTU as in the people who can upload to Universe/Multiverse
[07:38] <LaserJock> but we also us "MOTU" in a generic sense to mean the collective community of  MOTUs and contributors
[07:39] <mok0_> I think a good way to explain is to say that a MOTU is something you can become when working as a contributor for a while. As a MOTU, you get the right to upload to the Universe archive
[07:39] <LaserJock> the heavy use of "contributor" is relatively new
[07:39] <LaserJock> we used to use MOTU Hopeful
[07:39] <mok0_> LaserJock: yeah
[07:40] <tbielawa> Contributor sounds very politically correct, and more obvious
[07:40] <mok0_> LaserJock: but you can be a contributor without being a MOTU hopeful
[07:40] <tbielawa> if you say some one can be an ubuntu contributor it makes sense immeadiatly
[07:40] <LaserJock> yes, that's why it was changed
[07:40] <LaserJock> before in  our community you were basically either a MOTU or on your way to becoming one
[07:40] <RoAkSoAx> well i'm tired.. going to sleep... good night all (or should i say day??)
[07:41] <LaserJock> we didn't really have people who contributed but had no intention of becoming MOTUs
[07:41] <tbielawa> good nuight
[07:41] <LaserJock> RoAkSoAx: cya, thanks for the chat
[07:41] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock, anytime =) bye
[07:42] <tbielawa> I hate to break up the serious discussion
[07:42] <tbielawa> but I just found out that my first patch has gotten accepted into intepid!
[07:42] <LaserJock> s/discussion/bikeshedding/
[07:42] <tbielawa> lol
[07:42] <tbielawa> i like green, personally
[07:42] <LaserJock> tbielawa: congrats!
[07:43] <tbielawa> LaserJock:  Thanks man!
[07:45] <LaserJock> tbielawa: what package?
[07:45] <tbielawa> slocate
[07:45] <tbielawa> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/slocate/3.1-1.1ubuntu4
[07:46] <tbielawa> It was on the 'bugs for the week' list when I showed up last weekend. So I took it since it looked easy
[07:46] <LaserJock> I was thinking the other day when I was adding you to MOTU Science that it's been over 2 years since I started it
[07:46] <tbielawa> :)
[07:47] <tbielawa> on the main science motu page there is packages we'd like included
[07:47] <LaserJock> that was a loooong time ago
[07:47] <tbielawa> I've got one of them in REVU now :)
[07:47] <LaserJock> which one?
[07:47] <tbielawa> Bibus
[07:47] <LaserJock> oh really?
[07:47] <tbielawa> ya'rly
[07:47] <LaserJock> that's been on the list for a long time
[07:47] <tbielawa> Seriously?
[07:47] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:47] <tbielawa> It was debianized, I just had to clean it up http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=bibus
[07:47] <LaserJock> glad to see somebody take it on
[07:48] <LaserJock> yeah, when i put it on the list it was the hot new thing on the forums
[07:48] <tbielawa> nifty
[07:48] <LaserJock> and there weren't any package around
[07:48] <tbielawa> ohhhhh
[07:48] <LaserJock> it didn't look like a treat to do
[07:48] <LaserJock> but I'm glad somebody's looked into it :-)
[07:49] <tbielawa> I saw the work upstream put into it. the debianization was pretty intense
[07:49] <LaserJock> did you intend to make it a native package?
[07:49] <tbielawa> ha, ya.... um... I'm working on that part ;)
[07:49] <LaserJock> ok ;-)
[07:50] <tbielawa> This weekend I'm going to finish that up.
[07:50] <tbielawa> I'll have a lot more time starting at 1pm on saturday (EST). My final- final exam is over wish
[07:51] <LaserJock> hmm
[07:51] <LaserJock> that packaging is pretty intense
[07:51] <LaserJock> I think we'll have some work to do :-)
[07:52] <tbielawa> what is it, what do you see?
[07:53] <LaserJock> lots of stuff
[07:53] <LaserJock> tbielawa: I've got to run right now, it's late here
[07:54] <tbielawa> LaserJock: alright. lets try and work on cleaning up bibus some time after saturday/.
[07:54] <tbielawa> ?
[07:54] <LaserJock> tbielawa: send me an email (mantha@ubuntu.com) and I'll reply with a review
[07:54] <tbielawa> nice!
[07:54] <LaserJock> we'll get this baby busted out ;-)
[07:54] <tbielawa> LaserJock:  You got it man, thanks
[07:55] <LaserJock> night
[07:57] <mok0_> I guess we need a general discussion of the MOTU wikipages
[07:59] <tbielawa> ok
[07:59] <LaserJock> mok0_: yes, I've been discussing that some with other MOTUs
[07:59] <LaserJock> just need people who are willing to do work :-)
[07:59] <LaserJock> but now I'm really away ;-)
[08:00] <tbielawa> lol
[08:00] <mok0_> LaserJock: any consensus?
[08:01] <mok0_> LaserJock: On the GettingStarted page, we could in fact s/MOTU/Contributor/g
[08:01] <tbielawa> I think you lost him mok0
[08:02] <mok0_> tbielawa: ?!?
[08:02] <tbielawa> mok0_ he left for bed methinks
[08:02] <mok0_> Ah I see it now
[08:02] <mok0_> heh
[08:03] <mok0_> morning here...
[08:03] <tbielawa> it's 3 here, it's probably midnight for him,
[08:03] <mok0_> tbielawa: you mean 03?
[08:03] <tbielawa> 0300
[08:03] <tbielawa> yep
[08:03] <tbielawa> -5 UTC
[08:04] <mok0_> time for you to go to bed too... :-)
[08:04] <tbielawa> If I knew what was good for me
[08:05] <tbielawa> Hanging out in #-motu is kinda surreal some times to em
[08:05] <tbielawa> it's strange for me anyway
[08:05] <mok0_> yes, it's funny that way
[08:05] <tbielawa> The job I got last fall is with the computer science department, before that job I hadn't used ubuntu
[08:05] <tbielawa> I asked my manager where he got all our server names, and he said from posters on planet.ubuntu.com
[08:06] <tbielawa> and in the last week I've talked to a few of the people on there that our boxes are named after
[08:06] <mok0_> tbielawa: hah!
[08:06] <mok0_> tbielawa: so what are the servers' names?
[08:06] <tbielawa> holbach I see all the time. I talked to savage last night
[08:06] <tbielawa> fittl, elep, karsemaker,
[08:06] <tbielawa> fuchs
[08:07] <tbielawa> edwards, denter,
[08:07] <mok0_> :-D
[08:07] <tbielawa> henstridge
[08:07] <tbielawa> god damn henstridge
[08:07] <tbielawa> that was our student file server and we were cursing that name afew weeks ago
[08:08] <tbielawa> bacon, castro, zacchiroli, shuttleworth, helmke, droge.. the list goes on and on
[08:08] <mok0_> if the students ever come to IRC, they might be puzzled
[08:09] <tbielawa> well, I'm one of them as well, it's pretty neat now that I am hanging out here getitng into the community
[08:09] <mok0_> ... to see their server chatting along
[08:09] <tbielawa> lol!
[08:10] <tbielawa> i have one more of our new machines to build, and our policy is whoever builds it names it.
[08:10] <tbielawa> hear that folks? want a server named after you then now is the time to suck up :)
[08:10] <mok0_> tbielawa: by "build" you mean install os?
[08:11] <StevenK> tbielawa: I would, but my name is a crappy machine for a name.
[08:11] <tbielawa> nope, i have a 1u rack mount case in our server building along with the mobo + hdd + ram, etc ready to inventory, build, and rack
[08:11] <mok0_> tbielawa: cool
[08:11] <StevenK> crappy name for a machine. Sigh.
[08:12] <tbielawa> what's your last name?
[08:12] <mok0_> tbielawa: what cpu
[08:12] <tbielawa> mok0_: dual amd opterons, i forget the speed now, but it's a pretty mean box
[08:13] <mok0_> tbielawa: we find the best buy to be intels currently
[08:14] <tbielawa> mok0_: we're considering a shift towards intel hardware specs for our next round of purchases
[08:14] <StevenK> tbielawa: /wii will tell you
[08:15] <mok0_> tbielawa: you can get dual quads now... 8 CPUs in one...
[08:15] <tbielawa> I don't understand this thing!
[08:15] <tbielawa> the /wii is beyond me
[08:15] <tbielawa> oh baby, dual quads
[08:16] <tbielawa> I don't know what we'd do with all those cores, other than consolidate and run a basket of virtualmachines :)
[08:16] <mok0_> tbielawa: exactly
[08:17] <tbielawa> The research I'm doing in our shift to a hardy infrastructure is focusing around using KVM to consolidate
[08:18] <mok0_> tbielawa: we have delegated a few server tasks to virtual machines (KVM)
[08:19] <mok0_> tbielawa: we have delegated a few server tasks to virtual machines (KVM)
[08:19] <tbielawa> mok0_: do you have much experience setting up the network configurations?
[08:20] <mok0_> tbielawa: not much, a bit. I wrote a wiki page on what I did
[08:20] <tbielawa> The hardware we're going to be implementing the virtualizing on has dual ethernet connections, I'd like to consider the practical benefits of utilizing each adapter
[08:20] <mok0_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KvmWithBridge
[08:20] <tbielawa> wait, you're Morten?
[08:20] <mok0_> Yes
[08:20] <tbielawa> mok0_: i'm on the page now
[08:21] <gnomefreak> package wordpress there are 2 depends that are no longer in our repos im huessing they are fairly important. the depends that cant be found are libjs-prototype, libjs-scriptaculous  are these dafe to remove?
[08:21] <tbielawa> I've been referencing that thoroughly
[08:21] <gnomefreak> s/dafe/safe
[08:22] <gnomefreak> there is no longer any package/lib that starts with libjs
[08:23] <tbielawa> in intrepid?
[08:25] <gnomefreak> tbielawa: yes but the packages were not in HArdy either i just found out
[08:25] <tbielawa> oh
[08:25] <gnomefreak> !info libjs-prototype hardy
[08:25] <tbielawa> I have no idea man. if it's running without them it might be safe to remove. give it a try
[08:25] <gnomefreak> i just set up a wordpress account so i never tested in on hardy
[08:26] <gnomefreak> tbielawa: ill try it
[08:26] <gnomefreak> thanks
[08:26] <tbielawa> sure
[08:26] <tbielawa> mok0_: I read your wiki page, I think you would be very interested in what we're doing my department.
[08:26] <mok0_> gnomefreak: your question will reach a wider audience if you write to the mailing list
[08:26] <gnomefreak> mok0_: i know i always check here first :)
[08:27] <mok0_> gnomefreak: yeah, you might be lucky of course
[08:28] <tbielawa> mok0_: check out the launchpad project if you have a moment https://launchpad.net/loud-platform
[08:29] <mok0_> tbielawa: nice!
[08:30] <tbielawa> last weekend when I was getting assimilated into motu science I browsed everyones wiki pages and book marked yours since your idea matched up to what we're doing
[08:30] <mok0_> tbielawa: I am very pleased it is useful to you!
[08:31] <tbielawa> On our mirrir we're setting up virtual packages for the professors which will install the tools relevant to that professors course for the semester
[08:31] <mok0_> tbielawa: when we did the work some months ago, I just wrote down what we did
[08:31] <dholbach> good morning
[08:31] <mok0_> tbielawa: that's a good idea
[08:31] <tbielawa> morning holbach
[08:31] <mok0_> morning, dholbach
[08:32] <dholbach> hi mok0_
[08:32] <tbielawa> dholbach: a server in my work palce is named after you
[08:33] <tbielawa> I figured I'd tell you to help make you feel uncomfortable :p
[08:33] <mok0_> hehe
[08:33] <dholbach> tbielawa: eh?
[08:33] <tbielawa> ha
[08:33] <StevenK> It made me feel pretty uncomfortable, and glad I don't blog.
[08:33] <tbielawa> lol
[08:33] <StevenK> It'd, even
[08:34] <dholbach> tbielawa: how is it named? where did you get that idea? ;)
[08:34] <tbielawa> it wasn't my idea, my manager (ex debian maintainer) decided to name each machine we build after some one from the planet.ubuntu.com site
[08:34] <mok0_> so now you understand why you shut down at irregular intervals
[08:34] <tbielawa> we run the entire infrastructure (computer science department) off Ubuntu machines
[08:34] <soren> tbielawa: Is there a hansen server?
[08:34] <tbielawa> [CSEE]<tbielawa>@(denter)[~] 03:32:24
[08:34] <tbielawa> $ lsearch cn=hansen cn
[08:34] <tbielawa> [CSEE]<tbielawa>@(denter)[~] 03:34:43
[08:34] <tbielawa> $
[08:34] <tbielawa> nope
[08:34] <tbielawa> but we have denter as a shell server :)
[08:35] <soren> Ok, good :)
[08:35] <soren> I'm safe for now.
[08:35] <dholbach> tbielawa: man.... if I ever read comments like "it's dholbach acting up again"....
[08:35] <tbielawa> no
[08:35] <warp10> Good morning!
[08:35] <dholbach> hi warp10
[08:35] <tbielawa> you shoudl ahve heard us cursing henstridges name recently
[08:35] <warp10> heya dholbach
[08:35] <tbielawa> morning warp10
[08:35] <warp10> hey tbielawa
[08:35]  * dholbach hugs jamesh
[08:36] <tbielawa> it's pretty neat to talk to the people i've been naming hardware after and reading docs written by
[08:36] <dholbach> . o O { "dholbach is down for maintenance tasks", etc... }
[08:37]  * cbx33 patches dholbach 
[08:37] <tbielawa> well, it's just holbach on the dns entry
[08:38] <tbielawa> aparently holbach is a tftp server. oh god....
[08:38] <cbx33> dholbach: lutin is away for 4 days :(
[08:38] <tbielawa> dholbach: I think youre about to be depricated!
[08:38] <cbx33> so no fixing in sight
[08:38] <dholbach> tbielawa: please don't hurt my ego
[08:39] <tbielawa> lol
[08:39] <dholbach> cbx33: you could just follow up on the bug report or forward it upstream if it doesn't happen with the newest SVN snapshot
[08:39] <dholbach> cbx33: I even gave you the numbers of SVN commits that are supposed to fix crashers - there are lots of option aside from "waiting for lutin to fix it" :)
[08:40] <cbx33> dholbach: well
[08:40] <cbx33> I've tried
[08:40] <cbx33> compiling from source and that doesn't work either....I'm attacking this on all fronts
[08:40] <cbx33> believe me
[08:41] <dholbach> cbx33: if the newest svn snapshot shows the same problem, I'd forward the stack trace upstream
[08:41] <cbx33> already done
[08:41] <cbx33> but it is a different issue in the new SVN
[08:41] <cbx33> I think the main problem
[08:41] <cbx33> is that 0.6 isn't officially released
[08:41] <cbx33> 0.5 was
[08:41] <cbx33> 0.6 is still being worked on......
[08:41] <cbx33> I think we just synced from debian
[08:42] <dholbach> you could package a 0.6.really.is.0.5-0ubuntu1 and try to get that backported
[08:42] <dholbach> (if nothing else helps)
[08:42] <cbx33> i could, but
[08:42] <cbx33> for a start unsermake is no longer in hardy
[08:42] <cbx33> so that'd have to be ported to for build deps right?
[08:42] <dholbach> yes, it'd help if it built :/
[08:45] <cbx33> hey jono
[08:59] <\sh> damn...is there any mirror which is not outdated or broken like a.u.c.?
[09:02] <soren> I'm quite happy with se.a.u.c.
[09:03] <gnomefreak> i use de and they work
[09:05]  * StevenK blinks. uk.a.u.c gives an IP that reverses to ubuntu.datahop.it.
[09:05] <gnomefreak> where would the menu item for wordpress be once installed?
[09:05] <gnomefreak> i think i fixed it i just cant find it
[09:07] <wgrant> gnomefreak: ... Wordpress is a webapp.
[09:08] <gnomefreak> wgrant: thanks im working on figuring it out now
[09:10] <gnomefreak> where would i find it it doesnt seem to be anywhere. a true web app you should find something about it alteast on wordpress.com or in browser menu i would think
[09:12] <gnomefreak> no info from terminal at all just says commandnot found when i run it as wordpress and wordpress --help and than man wordpress doesnt have  aman page
[09:13] <gnomefreak> i would have thought it would be in the add to panel menu when right clicking top panel
[09:14] <wgrant> gnomefreak: It is a webapp! Why would it have a binary in the path, a panel applet, or a browser menu item?
[09:15] <gnomefreak> because its a webblog manager and that is how the rest of them work
[09:15] <wgrant> No, it is a blog webapp.
[09:15] <wgrant> Not like blogtk or whatever it is.
[09:16] <gnomefreak> Description: weblog manager  from show wordpress
[09:16] <wgrant> Right, your definition of weblog manager is biased.
[09:17] <gnomefreak> wgrant: so ther eis no way to run it is what you saying (it wont edit my blog from DE
[09:17] <wgrant> No. That's not at all what it is designed for.
[09:17] <gnomefreak> weblog manager to me would be drivel and friends
[09:18] <wgrant> That might be a blog client.
[09:18] <gnomefreak> so with this im gonna have to go to wordpress.com for it to help me at all?
[09:19] <wgrant> What?
[09:19] <wgrant> No.
[09:19] <wgrant> Wordpress is a blog webapp. You run it on a web server.
[09:19] <gnomefreak> oh that sucks
[09:19] <wgrant> ...
[09:19] <wgrant> Why?
[09:19] <gnomefreak> atleast i fixed the depends on it and built it :)
[09:20] <gnomefreak> wgrant: im not running a server
[09:20] <wgrant> Built it?
[09:20] <wgrant> It's PHP.
[09:20] <wgrant> No building.
[09:20] <gnomefreak> wgrant: the package we had in repos had 2 depends that no longer exsited
[09:20] <wgrant> Where do you expect to host a blog if you're not running a server?
[09:20] <wgrant> gnomefreak: Which release?
[09:20] <gnomefreak> wgrant: yes very much packaging
[09:21] <gnomefreak> 2.5.1-2ubuntu1
[09:21] <gnomefreak> i removed the 2 libs and it built fine
[09:21] <gnomefreak> and installed
[09:21] <gnomefreak> would have liked to have tested it before pushing to PPA
[09:21] <wgrant> That's in intrepid. What do you expect?
[09:22] <gnomefreak> wgrant: hardy doesnt have them either
[09:22] <gnomefreak> makes me think it hasnt worked in a while
[09:22] <wgrant> I meant that version is in intrepid.
[09:22] <gnomefreak> wgrant: right
[09:22] <wgrant> Regrettably, wordpress installs fine in Hardy.
[09:22] <wgrant> You can't expect an intrepid version to work on hardy.
[09:23] <gnomefreak> wgrant: afaik libjs-prototype, libjs-scriptaculous are not in hardy and it has them as depends
[09:24] <gnomefreak> so it shouldnt install if it didnt here
[09:24] <gnomefreak> !info libjs-scriptaculous hardy
[09:24] <wgrant> gnomefreak: wordpresss 2.5 is not in Hardy!
[09:25] <gnomefreak> !info wordpress hardy
[09:25] <gnomefreak> ah that could be a good reason
[09:25] <wgrant> Why did you get some strange intrepid version?
[09:25] <gnomefreak> wgrant: what do you mean strange?
[09:25] <gnomefreak> its what is in repos
[09:25] <wgrant> Yes. But it's in intrepid.
[09:26] <gnomefreak> wgrant: yes so am i
[09:26] <gnomefreak> atleast atm i am
[09:26] <wgrant> So why were you complaining about the deps being missing in Hardy?
[09:29] <\sh> gnomefreak, de.a.u.c is at least 24h old...
[09:31] <proppy> oy
[10:21] <proppy> Hi, is there a way to get which dependencies is missing when apt-get build-dep fails "with E: Build-dependencies for poker-network could not be satisfied." ? http://pastebin.com/m74e13a3c
[10:32] <joaopinto> proppy, you can use the psatisfydepends script from pbuilder
[10:50] <proppy> joaopinto: Aptitude couldn't satisfy the build dependencies
[10:50] <proppy> E: pbuilder-satisfydepends failed.
[10:51] <joaopinto> :|
[10:51] <proppy> joaopinto: but the log file is pretty informative :)
[10:51] <proppy> thanks a lot
[10:54] <proppy> http://pastebin.com/m752aae09
[11:00] <slytherin> I am trying to do sync/merge of cairo-java. I get - checking for jar... no, configure: error: no acceptable jar program found in $PATH. Can anyone help?
[11:04] <james_w> slytherin: you have some sort of jre installed?
[11:05] <slytherin> james_w: I am doing it in pbuilder chroot. And AFAIK, the dependencies are specified correct. It somehow looks like there is problem with 'alternatives'
[11:05] <james_w> that could be it.
[11:07] <slytherin> james_w: I just logged in the chroot and manually installed fastjar. But /etc/alternatives/jar points to jar binary in Sun 1.5.0 jdk installation which obviously does not exist
[11:52] <slytherin> james_w: It was some problem with my chroot
[11:54] <james_w> slytherin: you got it sorted now?
[11:55] <slytherin> james_w: yes
[11:55] <james_w> great
[11:59] <slytherin> If I am filing a sync bug, whcih team should I subscribe?
[12:00] <james_w> ubuntu-universe-sponsors if it is a universe package and you need a sponsor
[13:02] <Jazzva> pochu: ping
[13:03] <mok0> join #ubuntu
[13:14] <slytherin> geser: are you working on any merges for the -java packages where you are the last uploader? ex. libgtk-java, libglade-java etc
[13:16] <geser> slytherin: no, you can have them if you want
[13:17] <geser> slytherin: I don't if the delta is still needed so please check before you merge
[13:17] <slytherin> geser: Ok. Thanks. By the way I have just files sync bug for cairo-java.
[13:32] <slytherin> geser: glib-java is also a sync. ﻿bug 228643 and bug 228650. Going out for some time. Will do other packages later. :-)
[13:47] <pochu> Jazzva: no route to host ;)
[13:50] <Jazzva> pochu: Heh :)... I wanted to ask you what should I do to the 99_autoconf patch? It should be updated, afaics...
[13:50] <Jazzva> pochu: Is it easier to generate a new one?
[13:50] <Jazzva> And how :)?
[13:50] <RainCT> hey
[13:50] <RainCT> Jazzva: just replicate the changes as a new patch
[13:50] <RainCT> (disabling the old one first)
[13:52] <Jazzva> RainCT: I think the changes were made automatically... That's why I'm asking how to generate new one.
[13:52] <geser> slytherin: both sync requests ACKed. Please add also the new Debian changelog entries to the sync bug the next time.
[13:53] <slytherin> geser: Ok
[13:58] <pochu> Jazzva: yes, 'autoreconf -fiv' should regenerate everything
[13:59] <Jazzva> pochu: Thanks :)... I'll go with that...
[14:13] <afflux> which parts of the changelog should I add to a sync request where the ubuntu version does not derive from a debian version?
[14:13] <afflux> (they use the same .orig.tar.gz though)
[14:14] <jw2328_> afflux: what do you mean "does not derive"?
[14:16] <afflux> james_w: I mean that the ubuntu package has it's own packaging (x.y-0ubuntu1 vs. x.z-1)
[14:16] <james_w> afflux: ah, ok, so it is derived from Debian, just not the current upstream version?
[14:17] <james_w> you should add all the changelog entries from debian since the last Debian version that was in Ubuntu
[14:17] <afflux> hm okay
[14:22] <dholbach> RainCT: do you think you could forward your liquidwar desktop entry change to debian and/or upstream? I just did the merge
[14:38] <Jazzva> pochu: I have to go off for a while, most of the merge for liferea is completed, just to test-build it. I'll submit it in a few hours, so you can review it :).
[14:42] <RainCT> dholbach: If you can give me a diff, sure. (But the Maintainer doesn't seem very active anyway).
[14:43] <dholbach> RainCT: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11109/
[14:43] <dholbach> RainCT: thanks a lot
[14:44] <dholbach> RainCT: it's the only remaining change, so we could sync the next release
[14:44] <bddebian> Heya gang
[14:44] <dholbach> heya bddebian
[14:44] <bddebian> Hi dholbach
[14:44]  * dholbach -> ice cream
[14:46] <RainCT> dholbach: ah, nice. no problem, thx for the diff.
[14:47] <joh> Could someone be so kind and review my package at revu? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=alarm-clock-applet thanks!
[14:55] <RainCT> joh: little question, have you followed the example from PackagingGuide/HOWTOS for the POD manpages?
[14:55] <RainCT> s/manpages/manpage
[15:05] <RainCT> joh: Anyway, good work, on a quick lock I can't find any real problem. Just some insignificant things:
[15:05] <RainCT> joh: debian/rules has some unneeded commented-out examples; debian/copyright *might* have a wrong encoding (but it may also be just my browser) (and I usualy prefer linking to '.../GPL' (without the -2) if it is "or later" but you can do whatever you want); the Closes in debian/changelog is not needed an is usualy not written;
[15:05] <RainCT> joh: and FYI, in debian/control you could use " ." to leave an empty line between the two paragraphs (but that might not be what you want, just telling your for the case you didn't know)
[15:05] <RainCT> joh: ah, there is a "package = hello
[15:05] <RainCT> " in debian/rules.. what does that do there? :P
[15:20] <slytherin> when does MoM updates its reports?
[15:22] <joh> RainCT: Thanks for your comments! (And sorry for this late reply)
[15:23] <joh> RainCT: Regarding the manpage I followed this template: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#head-be1e4a635cbcf6a0bf2ff344a99ca45cc87ae17a
[15:24] <joh> RainCT: The commented-out examples you're referring to are the docbook-to-man & friends, right?
[15:25] <joh> RainCT: The license needs to be GPLv2 as far as I know as I borrow some code from other GPLv2 apps.
[15:25] <joh> RainCT: I was asked to refer to the LP bug report somehow and figured a closes bug comment in changelog would be appropriate. Is there any other way this could be done?
[15:28] <slytherin> joh: I think he meant Closes word is unnecessary. Just LP: #xxxxxx is sufficient.
[15:30] <joh> slytherin: Ah I see, thanks
[15:33] <persia> Regarding the use of "Closes LP: #nnnnnn", the "closes" is not just unnecessary, but actively discouraged, as it can lead to confusion with the syntax for closing Debian bugs, and it is preferred that these be easily separable during changelog review.
[15:34] <joh> Ok, so I should rather use "Initial release (#nnnnnn)" ?
[15:35] <joh> Err, "LP: #nnnnnn"
[15:35] <slytherin> joh: yes
[15:35] <joh> Great
[15:39] <jcfp> MOTUs, if you have some time to spare please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=sabnzbdplus
[15:43] <ember> for -proposed the version is x.1 and assign motu-sru right?
[15:45] <james_w> ember: subscribe, not assign.
[15:46] <ember> yes, that.
[15:46] <ember> thanks
[15:49] <afflux> do you think bug 199600 is suitable for a SRU?
[15:49] <afflux> hi sebner
[15:50] <sebner> afflux: huhu :)
[16:00] <sroecker> hi
[16:01] <sroecker> does anyone know how to create a diff for a glade file?
[16:02] <laga> it's just XML. use diff?
[16:02] <sroecker> if I edit it with glade I can't diff it
[16:02] <sroecker> it always makes a huge diff
[16:03] <laga> glade probably changed the file too much?
[16:03] <sroecker> yes
[16:03] <sroecker> it sucks editing glade files manually
[16:04] <laga> yup.
[16:04] <laga> and reviewing the big diffs from glade isn't fun.
[16:09] <sroecker> ok, seems to be normal :(
[16:11] <slytherin> sroecker: It is possible that old file was made with different glade version and now you are trying to edit it with latest glade version, hence so bug changes.
[16:21] <mok0> Any experts on python-central here?
[16:22] <mok0> Where do I install stuff when distutils is not used
[16:23] <mok0>  /usr/share/package ??
[16:23] <dholbach> doko: ^? :)
[16:23] <slytherin> geser: Few more syncs. tomcat5.5 - 228665, libgtk-java - 228695, libglade-java - 228702, libvte-java - 228711, libhiglayout-java - 228724
[16:24]  * mok0 could look at dh_python but I'm not much of a perl guy
[16:24] <doko> mok0: just put it into .../site-packages, then call dh_pycentral
[16:25] <mok0> doko: thanks I will try that
[16:27] <slytherin> geser: will work on other java related syncs/merges over weekend. Signing off now. :-)
[17:55] <white> Mez: around?
[18:02] <mok0> ZZZzzzzzz
[19:11] <joaopinto> secret maryo chronicles is not playing sound: ALSA lib pcm_dmix.c:874:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave
[19:11] <joaopinto> I have seen some bug reports with similiar messages for other apps, should I still file the bug for smc ?
[19:27] <morten> Hi, just a quick question about versioning. I have a small repository with a package (for lenny, sid, hardy, intrepid), and I have so far named it -0ubuntu2, but there is no differences between the versions. Would it be better to rename it to -3 ? (since there are no ubuntu changes)
[19:27] <morten> (this is just a small test package for myself, so renaming it now would really mather)
[19:29] <morten> also, in the changelog.. what should i use for distro? do i need to create one for each?
[19:51] <pochu> afflux: are you going to do the screenlets sync/merge?
[19:51] <pochu> 0.1.1 is already in Debian
[19:52] <afflux> pochu: I'm not exactly sure how to document the delta "and why it can be dropped", and since I'm currently running out of time I'd appreciate if someone else would take it ;)
[19:56] <pochu> afflux: ok, do you know if all the patches are merged upstream?
[19:56] <afflux> pochu: I took a quick look and it seemed so
[19:56] <pochu> ok, thanks. if I do it, I'll verify it
[19:56] <afflux> thank you
[19:57] <Amaranth> wow, you mean screenlets is maintained?
[19:59] <afflux> hehe
[19:59] <afflux> Amaranth: there is even some upstream, somewhere... ;)
[19:59] <Amaranth> that's what i mean
[20:00] <Amaranth> the original upstream author completely dropped off the face of the earth
[20:00] <afflux> I see
[20:06] <cbx33> hey guys
[20:06] <cbx33> in an strace
[20:06] <cbx33> what would this mean
[20:07] <cbx33> http://pastebin.ca/1012995
[20:08] <cbx33> is it crashing because the file isn't present?
[20:10] <pochu> afflux: including those "new patches from ubuntu:" from 0.0.12-0ubuntu4? Other than the patches, this is a sync
[20:16]  * pochu checks the code
[20:20] <Mez> w00t
[20:27] <pochu> afflux: all merged, sync requested filed
[20:31] <afflux> pochu: excellent, thanks
[20:31] <pochu> thanks for your work there! :)
[20:47] <DarkSun88> hi all
[20:47] <DarkSun88> xlibs-dev in hardy there isn't?
[20:48] <RoAkSoAx> DarkSun88, check it: packages.ubuntu.com and search it in the hardy repos, if it does not appear there... means that it is not
[20:49] <sebner> RoAkSoAx: pciutils are now in intrepid ;)
[20:49] <DarkSun88> i'm already tryed, there isn't
[20:49] <james_w> DarkSun88: correct
[20:50] <DarkSun88> but the name is different?
[20:50] <RoAkSoAx> sebner, so can i go ahead and post sync bug for athcool ?
[20:50] <sebner> RoAkSoAx: after checking, yes ;)
[20:52] <RoAkSoAx> sebner, what should i check?? ( i guess it have not been updated on the repos cuz i can't the pciutils-dev (>= 1:2.2.10) version just yet)
[20:52] <DarkSun88> see you soon :)
[20:53] <DarkSun88> thanks a lot
[20:54] <sebner> RoAkSoAx: I may be wrong and it isn't a sync ;) 1:3.0.0-3 is in intrepid now or at least should hit the archive soon
[20:54] <RoAkSoAx> sebner, ok so as soon it hits i'll check xD
[20:55] <sebner> RoAkSoAx: no need. After you filed the sync bug it will take some days to process it so please go aheas
[20:55] <sebner> *ahead
[20:55] <sebner> huhu norsetto :)
[20:56] <norsetto> sebner: how is the merging?
[20:56] <RoAkSoAx> sebner, ok so i just file the sync bug, with what description ??  "Since pciutils-dev (1:3.0.0-3) is in the archivo, Ubuntu changes can be dropped" ??
[20:56] <sebner> norsetto: well haven't done anything since I had stress in school. but I'm finalizing the courier merge now
[20:57] <sebner> RoAkSoAx: yes. but you can't trust my words. Ok I'm quite sure that it's a sync but a double check is always better
[20:57] <RoAkSoAx> sebner, i will :)
[20:58] <sebner> RoAkSoAx: fine :)
[20:58] <Jazzva> pochu: Seems that liferea works fine :). I'll clean up, report a merge request and let you know once it's up, so you can review it
[20:58] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: whats the problem with pciutils-dev?
[20:59] <sebner> norsetto: what's wrong if I have a big debdiff and I want to patch debian package. It cries because debian rules is malformated but if I extract the rules diff thing I can patch it without problems
[20:59] <norsetto> sebner: some specifics could help me to understand what you are talking about
[21:00] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto, the other day i was trying to merge "athcool", but in the last hardy changelog (which was done by sebner) says that: "Note: If the package pciutils (>= 1:2.2.10) is in Intrepid we can drop all remaining changes and make a sync.". So since sebner just told me version  pciutils-dev (1:3.0.0-3) is in the archive... i have to check it before filling a sync bug
[21:00] <sebner> norsetto: ^^. Ok I' merging courier now and I have a big debdiff. Now I want to see if the debdiff is working so I download the debian source pakage and apply the debdiff. But it complains that debian/rules can't be patched -> malformated. If I extract the debian rules patch from the debdiff I can apply it without problems
[21:01] <sebner> RoAkSoAx: well not only pciutils. All the other things also ^^
[21:01] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: how can pciutils-dev (1:3.0.0-3) be in the archive!?
[21:01] <sebner> norsetto: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pciutils
[21:02] <RoAkSoAx> sebner, yeah i know i have to check everything, to see if there are no more UBuntu changes xD, right?
[21:02] <sebner> RoAkSoAx: fine ^^
[21:03] <norsetto> sebner, RoAkSoAx: thats the source package, the pciutils-dev package has been replaced
[21:03] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto, that's why i told sebner that i can't see that version on: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=pciutils&searchon=names&suite=intrepid&section=all
[21:05] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: its been renamed to libpci-dev
[21:05] <sebner> RoAkSoAx: see, you can't trust my words xD
[21:05] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto, can't find it here either: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=intrepid&section=all&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=libpci-dev
[21:06] <norsetto> sebner: what is the exact error message?
[21:06] <sebner> norsetto: patch: **** malformed patch at line 1488: diff -Nru courier-0.59.0/debian/rules courier-0.59.0/debian/rules
[21:06] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: libpci-dev |  1:3.0.0-3 |      intrepid | amd64, i386
[21:07] <norsetto> sebner: and what is in that line?
[21:07] <sebner> well at least it's really version 1:3.0 :)
[21:07] <emgent>   o
[21:07] <emgent> O/
[21:07] <emgent> hi norsetto :P
[21:07] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto, i guess it has not been updated yet... so i just merge and change the build-Depends from pciutils-dev to libpci-dev ?
[21:07] <norsetto> emgent: ./
[21:07] <sebner> norsetto: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11172/  <-- first line
[21:08] <sebner> norsetto: As I said if I extract that in a single patch it applies without problems
[21:09] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: yes, its better, it may not ftbfs if you don't change it (if it is Provided by libpci-dev) but its better to have it explicitely.
[21:09] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto, ok thanks i'll try it then :)
[21:09] <norsetto> sebner: that line is funny indeed
[21:10] <sebner> RoAkSoAx: As I said. Check everything ^^
[21:10] <sebner> norsetto: ^^ -> :(
[21:10] <RoAkSoAx> sebner, i will xD
[21:10] <norsetto> sebner: how could you do that? It seems that you are diffing the same file
[21:11] <norsetto> sebner: how it is for the other chunks?
[21:11] <slytherin> when does MoM usually update it's reports?
[21:12] <sebner> norsetto: the others are working. http://paste.ubuntu.com/11175/
[21:12] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto, i have these conflicts: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11176/ should i keep debian changes?
[21:12] <norsetto> sebner: I understand, my question is, how is the header for the other files?
[21:12] <sebner> norsetto: exactly the same ;)
[21:13] <slytherin> sebner: I suggest that you change into the directory of extracted source package and then do patch -p1 < some.debdiff
[21:13] <slytherin> sebner: That is the procedure I usually follow
[21:13] <sebner> slytherin: not p1 ?
[21:13] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: why did we add libz there?
[21:13] <sebner> slytherin: äh. p0
[21:14] <sebner> norsetto: before and after example. http://paste.ubuntu.com/11177/
[21:14] <slytherin> sebner: if you change into the source root, as opposed to outside source, you will need p1
[21:14] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto, because of this: Depend on pciutils-dev (>= 1:2.2.10) and pkg-config, and use
[21:14] <RoAkSoAx>     "pkg-config --libs libpci" to build statically with the correct
[21:14] <RoAkSoAx>     libraries. (Closes: #445016, #450447)
[21:15] <RoAkSoAx> that's in the debian changelog
[21:16] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: I understand that, my question is why did we add the -lz switch? Thats a diff we have with Debian
[21:16] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: check the ubuntu changelog, hopefully it is there
[21:17] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto, here:  Patched Makefile to link against zlib (added -lz)
[21:17] <RoAkSoAx> that's in Fiesty changelog
[21:18] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: right, so check why (there should hopefully be a bug reference) and if it is still needed
[21:18] <sebner> slytherin: same mistake
[21:18] <norsetto> sebner: how did you do the debdiff?
[21:19] <sebner> norsetto: ehm. like everydebdiff. debdiff debian ubuntu > test.debdiff
[21:19] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto, and they - Added zlib1g-dev to build-deps (in fiesty aswell) but debian does not use that zlib1g-dev
[21:19] <norsetto> sebner: where?
[21:20] <sebner> norsetto: where the files are ^^
[21:20] <norsetto> sebner: I think you might be missing something, perhaps interdiff
[21:20] <sebner> norsetto: hmm. never needed that before
[21:21] <norsetto> sebner: did you install patchutils?
[21:22] <sebner> norsetto: no -.- damn hardy reinstall. but why isn't a plain debdiff enough?
[21:23] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto, there is no bug reference for that in the UBungu changelog
[21:23] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: try to search in launchpad
[21:26] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto, these are all the bugs ever reported for athcool and none of them is related to that: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/athcool/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=New&field.status=Incomplete&field.status=Confirmed&field.status=Triaged&field.status=In+Progress&field.status=Fix+Committed&field.status=Fix+Released&field.status=Invalid&field.status=Won%27t+Fix&field.omit_dupes.used=
[21:27] <sebner> norsetto: wuhu. running debuild again and again made it working. That's the magic of opensource =)
[21:29] <sebner> RoAkSoAx: I was in the same situation. I asked \sh but can't remember the answer now
[21:29] <sebner> RoAkSoAx: he introduced these things
[21:30] <RoAkSoAx> sebner, so i guess i'll have to wait for him
[21:31] <sebner> RoAkSoAx: I think so
[21:31] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: if you don't know why ask the uploader that made that change
[21:31] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto, yep i'll have to wait for \sh to come online
[21:32] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: also, check in the upstream docs or sources if libz is needed
[21:32] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: you can also check the binaries with ldd to see if it is linked at runtime
[21:36] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto, ok thanks =)
[21:36] <RoAkSoAx> weird i can't find it with apt-cache search :S
[21:38] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: what?
[21:38] <RoAkSoAx> athcool
[21:38] <sebner> xD
[21:38] <RoAkSoAx> i can see it in packages.ubuntu.com but can't install it cause it does not find it
[21:38] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: are you on amd64?
[21:38] <RoAkSoAx> yes
[21:39] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: athcool is for i386 arch only
[21:39] <RoAkSoAx> yeah lol... haven't realized that
[21:42] <RoAkSoAx> norsetto, could you help me with other thing?? i was trying to merge alsa-tools, and crimsum told me to apply this before reporting the bug: http://hg.alsa-project.org/alsa-tools/raw-rev/9d1e48f8dd5d  ... but i've checked in the Hardy source and that change is already there... so... should i apply it?
[21:43] <norsetto> RoAkSoAx: this could be the reason: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pciutils/+bug/87436
[21:46] <psusi> say, I could have sworn you used to be able to mark bugs as depending on other ones in launchpad... has this feature been removed or can I just not find it?
[21:46] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: no, the change that I mentioned most definitely does not exist in the hardy source package.
[21:47] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: you should apply it for intrepid.
[21:49] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, ok, i've checked in the source package used in hardy, that i downloaded from: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/alsa-tools/1.0.15-2ubuntu4 and checked the same file for those lines... so that's i thought that change was already...
[21:49] <RoAkSoAx> and those lines are:  channel_map = meter_map_ds;
[21:49] <RoAkSoAx>  dest_map = dest_map_ds;
[21:49] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, so anyways, how do i apply it, do i just manually add those changes to the debdiff?
[21:49] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: no, please use the existing patch management system.
[21:50] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: are you familiar with quilt (and/or have you read pitti's overview of patch management systems)?
[21:50] <crimsun> (I'm happy to walk you through this particular merge.)
[21:50] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, nope (i'm just learning...)
[21:51] <sebner> RoAkSoAx: that quilt. I thinkt it's very easy and funny =)
[21:52] <RoAkSoAx> link me =)
[21:52] <sebner> RoAkSoAx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems?action=show&redirect=MOTU%2FHowToPatch
[21:53] <RoAkSoAx> found it too xD
[21:56] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: let me know if you'd like me to point out anything.
[21:57] <emgent> heya crimsun :)
[21:58] <crimsun> heya emgent :)
[22:02] <sebner> LaserJock: around?
[22:02] <LaserJock> yeah, what's up?
[22:03] <sebner> LaserJock: for edenmath.app I have to mail gnustep maintainers right, and not Debian QA team. right?
[22:03] <LaserJock> yeah, I'd ask the gnustep maintainers
[22:03] <sebner> LaserJock: k. thx. on the way =)
[22:03] <LaserJock> just to see if anybody is interested
[22:03] <LaserJock> they may just ignore it
[22:04] <sebner> LaserJock: We'll see.
[22:04] <pochu> Jazzva: great, thank you :)
[22:04] <LaserJock> sebner: after I made a big deal of "we should try to get the diff to Debian first before merging" all the packages I looked at were basically dead upstream
[22:05] <LaserJock> so we'll probably have to keep the diff anyway :-)
[22:05] <sebner> LaserJock: -.- archive removals =)
[22:05] <norsetto> LaserJock: do you feel particularly bored? Do you want to get a rush of excitement by looking at an sru request?
[22:05] <Jazzva> pochu: No problem ;)
[22:06] <LaserJock> norsetto: hehe, maybe. bug #?
[22:06] <norsetto> LaserJock: bug 228044, be careful, you could get a kick
[22:06] <sebner> LaserJock: btw. at least gnubiff is still a merge ;)
[22:06]  * LaserJock runs
[22:07] <sebner> LaserJock: go go go. upload =)
[22:09] <norsetto> LaserJock: btw, take care of my baby, now its in your hands (gelemental)
[22:09] <geser> sebner: I'm just testbuilding gnubiff and will upload it in a minute
[22:09] <sebner> geser: ah cool. Haven't seen you as such a strong uploader in hardy :)
[22:10] <LaserJock> norsetto: that SRU looks entirely sane to me
[22:10] <LaserJock> norsetto: I saw svn commits with you listed as Uploader
[22:10] <geser> sebner: http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ :)
[22:10] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, should i do something like: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11184/ ???
[22:11] <joejaxx> geser: that has not been updated in a while
[22:11] <norsetto> LaserJock: oh well, we have no choice then
[22:11]  * joejaxx goes to update
[22:11] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: yes.
[22:11] <psusi> say, I could have sworn you used to be able to mark bugs as depending on other ones in launchpad... has this feature been removed or can I just not find it?
[22:11] <sebner> geser: ok ok. ^^ but you haven't uploaded anything from be IIRC, or at least hardly anything :)
[22:11] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, ok, but when i enter the file the changes are already made...
[22:11] <joejaxx> geser: i still need to open the stats for ibex
[22:11] <joejaxx> when the repo opens
[22:11] <geser> sebner: true, I didn't have much time since this semester started
[22:12] <sebner> geser: ah. didn't know that you are a student :)
[22:13] <LaserJock> norsetto: did you want me to reject that SRU? :-)
[22:13] <norsetto> joejaxx: repo is open
[22:14] <norsetto> LaserJock: well, I entertained the notion for a while, now I've got no excuse but to upload it
[22:15] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: they're not applied
[22:15] <geser> sebner: gnubiff uploaded
[22:15] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: the change is subtle; don't be confused by the surrounding lines
[22:16] <sebner> geser: cool thanks. but if I were you I wouldn't upload that much for me. Otherwise you'll become me upload victim number 1 ;-P
[22:18] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, ok that patch has to be applying in all "CASE 1", of every ELSE condition??
[22:19] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: I hope you're not attempting to do it by hand :)
[22:19] <geser> sebner: it would only make my job as MC easier as I wouldn't need to review your debdiffs for your MOTU application anymore :)
[22:19] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: which commands have you executed so far?
[22:19] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, till quilt add hdspmixer/src/HDSPMixerCard.cxx
[22:19] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: ok, now you need to download the patch file.
[22:20] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: cd ..; wget http://hg.alsa-project.org/alsa-tools/raw-rev/9d1e48f8dd5d; cd -
[22:20] <sebner> geser: hrhr. well my application is still not that near ;)
[22:20] <LaserJock> norsetto: I think it's worthwhile. It's a pretty trivial change and I consider it a regression
[22:21] <sebner> geser: first I want to become a universe-contributor ;)
[22:21] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, ok done...
[22:21] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: (I presume you're in the top-level of the extracted source packageD[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D)
[22:21]  * norsetto sighs
[22:21] <LaserJock> norsetto: I've seen a lot of people going back to FF2 on Hardy so it'd be good if that worked
[22:21] <crimsun> oh geez
[22:21] <jdavies> cat!
[22:21] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, i'm here: xxx/alsa-tools-1.0.16-1ubuntu1$
[22:21] <sebner> LaserJock: yah. I've also seen a lot of people returning :\
[22:21] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: good.
[22:22] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, ok i downloaded the diff, now what?
[22:22] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: now, patch -p1 --dry-run <../9d1e48f8dd5d;echo $?
[22:22] <RoAkSoAx> done
[22:22] <crimsun> what was returned?
[22:22] <RoAkSoAx> patching file hdspmixer/src/HDSPMixerCard.cxx
[22:22] <RoAkSoAx> 0
[22:22] <crimsun> good.
[22:22] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, now: quilt refresh changes.diff ?
[22:22] <norsetto> sebner: do you realise we still have 587 merges to do? What have you been doing until now!?
[22:22] <crimsun> no, patch -p1 <../9d1e48f8dd5d
[22:23] <RoAkSoAx> patching file hdspmixer/src/HDSPMixerCard.cxx
[22:23] <sebner> norsetto: la scuola e` molto importante :P
[22:23] <crimsun> (--dry-run doesn't apply the actual diff)
[22:23] <crimsun> now, quilt refresh
[22:23] <crimsun> then, quilt pop -a
[22:23] <norsetto> sebner: keine gegenstende aus der fenster werfen
[22:23] <crimsun> then adjust the conflicts that MoM reported.
[22:24] <sebner> norsetto: perche`?
[22:24] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: BTW, I recommend you use a patch name more reflective of its intent than "changes.diff"
[22:24] <geser> norsetto: do you think 587 merges are enough to prove that sebner is ready for MOTU? :)
[22:24] <norsetto> sebner: because is dangerous ...
[22:25] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: e.g., fix_channel_map_adat_speed_1.patch
[22:25] <norsetto> geser: perhaps, but surely are enough to kill one or two sponsors in the process
[22:25] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: (make sure the precise name is reflected in debian/patches/series, of course)
[22:25] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, ok the ouput of quilt pop -a http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11186/
[22:25] <RoAkSoAx> and the changes.diff was just for learning purposes
[22:25] <RoAkSoAx> xD
[22:26] <sebner> geser: rofl
[22:26] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: right, that's good.  except I'd change muhaha.diff.  :)
[22:26] <sebner> norsetto: true but what has that todo with merges? ^^
[22:26] <norsetto> patch muhaha.diff !? The evil laugh hits again ....
[22:28] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, ok let me do it again with the correct file names :D
[22:28] <norsetto> sebner: its an ironic contemplation on the nature of multilinguistic relationships
[22:28] <sebner> norsetto: I suck at such things )
[22:29] <nxvl> RoAkSoAx: fighting with patch systems?
[22:29] <Amaranth> I thought you were supposed to get MOTU when your sponsors got tired of uploading your stuff :P
[22:29] <sebner> geser: btw. how was the MC today ;)
[22:29] <norsetto> sebner: its ok, it will come with age
[22:29] <ethana2> I'm requesting a backport of intrepid pavucontrol
[22:29] <ethana2> it uses decibels instead of percentages
[22:29] <ethana2> and I absolutely must have that
[22:29] <crimsun> dude, I totally mentioned the wiki.
[22:29] <Amaranth> ethana2: this is not the place to do such a thing
[22:29] <ethana2> oh
[22:30] <ethana2> I misunderstood, sorry
[22:30] <norsetto> ethana2: bribes are accepted
[22:30] <crimsun> not "come into -motu and announce 'blz backport kthx'"
[22:30] <sebner> norsetto: kk. btw, instead of uploading my merges (have you reviewed even one? ^^) you can help me learn italian :P
[22:30] <Amaranth> You know, I've never done a merge
[22:30] <RoAkSoAx> nxvl, i would say.. learning quilt :D... and nice PDF you got on that :D
[22:30] <ethana2> norsetto: we call them 'bounties'
[22:30] <norsetto> sebner: just the thought its enough to sends shivers down my spine
[22:31] <norsetto> ethana2: hard cash, no US$ not-worth-the-paper-is-printed-on pls.
[22:31] <jdong> LaserJock: you might wanna check with the bzr folk about the diff-on-no-changes behavior... I can't recall exactly but I believe I was told that the other VCSes used some corner-cutting method of assuming if a file had been modified or not?
[22:31] <sebner> norsetto: Why I'm having a feeling that tells me that you would need mental health care after working with me? ^^
[22:31] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, ok i did all of this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11188/ is it correct?
[22:31] <Amaranth> norsetto: Hey, the metal of our pennies is worth more than a penny
[22:32] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: that is one correct method, yes.
[22:32] <Amaranth> jdong: perhaps the mtime of the directory?
[22:32] <nxvl> RoAkSoAx: quilt is kewl
[22:32]  * nxvl loves quilt
[22:32] <LaserJock> jdong: yeah, that's right
[22:32] <jdong> Amaranth: I believe it had to do with mtimes
[22:32] <LaserJock> jdong: but apparently all the other VCSs I've seen cut the same corners ;-)
[22:32] <Amaranth> bzr actually diffs everything, everything else checks mtimes
[22:33] <crimsun> bzr does it correctly here, IMO
[22:33] <jdong> Amaranth: and the fact the penny costs more to manufacture than represent is not that big of a deal....
[22:33] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, ok, so my changelog will be like this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11189/ is it correct?
[22:33] <jdong> Amaranth: pennies are (gasp) reusable for many transactions
[22:33] <Amaranth> jdong: Not more to manufacture, the metal itself is worth more than a penny
[22:33] <RoAkSoAx> nxvl, haha but nice PDF you've got on packaging101 :D
[22:33] <Amaranth> jdong: Apparently we're going to use steel pennies again due to this
[22:34] <jdong> Amaranth: we need all digital currency.
[22:34] <jdong> :D
[22:34] <LaserJock> ewww
[22:34] <Amaranth> no, evil
[22:34] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: that is a bit more verbose than necessary but not incorrect.
[22:34]  * jdong proposes the RFID dollar
[22:34] <LaserJock> hah
[22:34] <nxvl> RoAkSoAx: which one?
[22:34] <Amaranth> digital currency makes it easy to spend more than you want and easy for others to track your spending
[22:34] <jdong> and the $20+ bills can have GPS and webcams built in.
[22:34] <jdong> you know. to catch the terrorists.
[22:34] <nxvl> RoAkSoAx: the presentation?
[22:35] <Amaranth> Oh, right.
[22:35] <Amaranth> Let's do that then.
[22:35] <norsetto> Amaranth: do you actually use pennies? I mean, when you pay $0.99 for something they give you a penny back? Seriously!?
[22:35] <RoAkSoAx> nxvl, this one: www.debianperu.org/files/dd2k7/presentaciones/Nicolas%20Valcárcel,%20Packaging%20101.pdf
[22:35] <jdong> norsetto: yes
[22:35] <LaserJock> norsetto: yes
[22:35] <crimsun> pennies are very useful.
[22:35] <norsetto> norsetto: yes
[22:35] <jdong> norsetto: if you pay cash they must give you exact change back.
[22:35] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, ok should i strip it out by removing the names of the one who made the changes???
[22:35] <jdong> norsetto: and you cannot buy a $1.01 item with $1 either
[22:35] <Amaranth> norsetto: Yep
[22:36] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: that's one acceptable approach.
[22:36] <Amaranth> norsetto: I know in Europe they like to steal your pennies but not here
[22:36] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, anything else?
[22:36] <Amaranth> s/pennies/one euro cents/
[22:36] <nxvl> RoAkSoAx: oh! the presentation, yes, i summarize PackagingGuide/PatchSystems in there
[22:36] <nxvl> and add some thing myself
[22:36] <crimsun> we declare pennies tools of terrorists.
[22:36] <jdong> too bad you can't melt them for copper :)
[22:36] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: well, yes.  build it, install it, test it.
[22:37] <jdong> what 2% copper they still contain.
[22:37] <Amaranth> That's a felony
[22:37] <Amaranth> iirc the metal in a penny is worth $0.03
[22:37] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, thank you very much for you help, i really appreciate it!! :D
[22:37] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: yw
[22:37] <jdong> Amaranth: last I heard was 1.2 cents
[22:37] <psusi> yea, they are mostly zinc... just copper plated
[22:37] <RoAkSoAx> nxvl, link me to all your presentations
[22:37] <norsetto> this reminds me when I called europe from the states from a phone boot
[22:37] <Amaranth> jdong: I guess I got my info from someone bad at rounding
[22:37] <nxvl> RoAkSoAx: there are on nvalcarcel.aureal.com.pe/stuff
[22:38] <jdong> Amaranth: but again, there's nothing silly about the fact that the penny costs more than it's worth.
[22:38] <nxvl> RoAkSoAx: but i don't remember which ones i have in there
[22:38] <nxvl> :D
[22:38] <psusi> it's fun to file off the edge a bit and drop one in a glass of lye and watch the zinc insides disolve and hollow out
[22:38] <jdong> Amaranth: because each penny is likely to be used many many times before it is discarded
[22:38] <Amaranth> jdong: That bit of economics still does my head in
[22:38] <psusi> it is silly because people will stop using them for pennies and melt them down for the metal ;)
[22:39] <LaserJock> we were just talking about the penny situation in my group meeting this morning
[22:39] <LaserJock> we have some copper bars in the lab
[22:39] <LaserJock> and we're not sure what to do with them, but they're pretty valuable now so we're keeping them
[22:39] <RoAkSoAx> nxvl, haha ok i'll download em
[22:39] <psusi> also it costs the gov't millions to produce them
[22:39] <Amaranth> jdong: The bit where spending $10 contributes $50 to the economy or some such thing
[22:40] <RoAkSoAx> nxvl, it says Not Found
[22:40]  * jdong still thinks digital money will be the cheapest :)
[22:40] <jdong> Windows LiveMoney
[22:40] <jdong> (tm)
[22:40] <crimsun> I wonder if anyone is returning his incentive from the treasury.
[22:40] <Amaranth> eh?
[22:40] <nxvl> RoAkSoAx: it isn't browsable
[22:40] <crimsun> the $600 or whatever.
[22:40] <Amaranth> returning it?
[22:41] <jdong> it's a part of $5000 going into a 36-month CD for me.
[22:41] <crimsun> yes, returning it
[22:41] <nxvl> RoAkSoAx: but it's called packaging101.pdf IIRC
[22:41] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, and how to test it?? install a VM with Intrepid, enable sound and test it??
[22:41] <LaserJock> I'm gonna pay bills with it
[22:41] <Amaranth> I don't get one, I owed money for taxes
[22:41] <emgent> heya nxvl :)
[22:41] <jdong> it was either a CD or a laser jammer.
[22:41] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: if you have hardware that uses it, sure
[22:41] <jdong> and at the last moment I decided to do the sensible thing
[22:41] <Amaranth> jdong: I would have gotten the laser jammer
[22:42] <jdong> or the Asian thing as people told me.
[22:42] <RoAkSoAx> nxvl, merging101.pdf too?
[22:42] <crimsun> I refuse to cash the check.
[22:42] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, other ways to test it?
[22:42] <jdong> Amaranth: yeah but I still have $2500 liquid cash + $100/wk. The jammer can STILL work out.
[22:42] <jdong> Amaranth: considering that there's a new shiny car waiting when I get home....
[22:42] <norsetto> is ff3 really that bad?
[22:42] <jdong> Amaranth: and it just so needs "front" and "rear" "parking sensors"
[22:42] <Amaranth> ff3 got me to stop using epiphany
[22:43] <crimsun> norsetto: compared with what?  IE 3?
[22:43] <Amaranth> asac was thankful
[22:43] <norsetto> crimsun: well, ff2 I would say
[22:43] <jdong> norsetto: in general I've found it to be good except (1) that nasty fixed sqlite bug (2) the new instability of Flash for some reason
[22:43] <jdong> #2 is not really Mozilla's fault though
[22:43] <Amaranth> jdong: uninstall libflashsupport
[22:43] <jdong> Amaranth: I did.
[22:43] <Amaranth> or figure out how to setup nspluginwrapper
[22:43] <jdong> Amaranth: now it only crashes 5% of the time rather than 95%
[22:43] <jdong> Amaranth: and yeah I'm setting up nspluginwrapper now.
[22:44] <Amaranth> I installed swfdec
[22:44] <crimsun> you can also use UWashington's flashproxy.
[22:44] <Amaranth> Screw it, I only watch youtube and huffington post videos anyway
[22:44] <crimsun> they could use some testing; I've already sent them some bug fixes.
[22:44] <LaserJock> I've never had FF3 crash
[22:44] <psusi> why would you not cache your return check?
[22:45] <nxvl> RoAkSoAx: yes, maybe
[22:45] <crimsun> psusi: because it's worthless to cash it.
[22:45] <jdong> Amaranth: the other day I was watching 150 or so laser jammer test videos (cough)... I had concurrent firefox profiles running to cycle between crashed ones.
[22:46] <psusi> crimsun: mine was worth $600
[22:46] <crimsun> psusi: sure.  I'm a bit more concerned about its long term effect.
[22:46] <Amaranth> psusi: Thank the Chinese government for the money :)
[22:47] <psusi> Amaranth: indeed
[22:47]  * RoAkSoAx is going to wath iron man xD
[22:47] <jdong> Amaranth: we've outsourced thanking China to India.
[22:47] <psusi> saw that last night... was great
[22:47] <crimsun> besides, the 600$ isn't really "mine"; it just goes back to my employer.
[22:47] <psusi> it's yours if you cash the checque
[22:48] <crimsun> no, I fall under something called "invasive monitoring."  Nothing I own is really mine.
[22:48]  * psusi wonders what drugs were in that cool aid
[22:48] <crimsun> some people employed by gigantenormous banks experience it, too
[22:48] <LaserJock> how nice :/
[22:49] <Amaranth> that's...weird
[22:50] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: you might want to use bzr for that source packaging, BTW
[22:51] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, how come?
[22:52] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: makes managing source packages more efficient in some workloas
[22:52] <crimsun> workloads*
[22:54]  * norsetto wonders how he could do without regexes until now
[22:54] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, so i should use bzr to work with source packagin with alsa-tools or while learning packaging?
[22:55] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: while learning packaging is a good tie-in
[22:55] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, ok cool i'll read more about it... thanks fro the advice
[22:58] <RoAkSoAx> crimsun, any link that you'll recommed me to read about that?
[22:59] <crimsun> RoAkSoAx: james_w did a session IIRC
[22:59] <crimsun> seems https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekhardy/Bazaar
[23:00] <RoAkSoAx> ok thanks =)
[23:00] <james_w> RoAkSoAx: I'd be happy to help you with any problems that you may encounter.
[23:01] <RoAkSoAx> james_w, i appreciate that =), i'll read your session of the OpenWeek and after that i'll loading you up with question :P
[23:01] <james_w> I look forward to it :-)
[23:09] <LaserJock> I need to get my butt in gear and start using VCS for packaging
[23:10] <LaserJock> I just haven't gotten the hang of it
[23:10] <crimsun> don't feel too bad; I just today uploaded my first set with XS-Debian-Vcs-*
[23:11] <LaserJock> heh
[23:11] <norsetto> anyone knows what will happen to puc?
[23:11] <LaserJock> I guess mostly my problem is that I rarely work on the same package
[23:12] <LaserJock> so it's rather pointless to use a VCS if you're not really going to use it
[23:12] <LaserJock> james_w: does bzr build-deb work with svn repos?
[23:12] <LaserJock> if you're using bzr-svn
[23:13] <james_w> LaserJock: yes, it should.
[23:13] <nxvl> you can package using bzr?
[23:13]  * nxvl looks
[23:13] <james_w> jelmer has sent me patch that makes it detect mergeWithUpstream property and switch modes based on that, but I haven't applied it yet.
[23:13] <james_w> hi nxvl
[23:14] <nxvl> hi!
[23:16] <LaserJock> james_w: I mean packages that are maintained in svn
[23:16] <LaserJock> not svn upstreams
[23:16] <james_w> LaserJock: yes, should work.
[23:17] <james_w> if it doesn't work then let me know, there may need to be some more trickery employed to make it seamless.
[23:18] <LaserJock> also, what you call merge mode would be what I would think of as Normal mode
[23:18] <LaserJock> do you have any idea on just how many people use one over the other?
[23:19] <james_w> no, I don't.
[23:20] <james_w> I think full source is the best way to go. I used to think otherwise.
[23:24] <LaserJock> most packaging repos I've seen just do debian/
[23:24] <LaserJock> other than TeX, and their svn repo is 20GB and takes hours to check out :-)
[23:26] <sebner> LaserJock: you mentioned me at the MOTU-Meeting ;) besides that I also want to join the LaserJock fan club :P
[23:27] <LaserJock> pfft
[23:27] <LaserJock> I don't need a fan club
[23:28] <LaserJock> maybe a club to the head ;-)
[23:28] <sebner> ^^
[23:28] <sebner> gn8 fols :)
[23:39]  * cheatr clubs LaserJock on the head
[23:43] <RoAkSoAx> i want pizza!!
[23:43] <cheatr> RoAkSoAx: http://lifehacker.com/388708/track-your-dominos-pizza-order-from-a-terminal
[23:44] <RoAkSoAx> haha lol
[23:48] <Jazzva> pochu: uploading debdiffs (between debian and ubuntu new, and ubuntu old and ubuntu new, with and without po changes (Someone once told me I should upload only without po files, but I wasn't really sure)). Anyway, first one is uploaded... it's gonna take another few minutes for the rest, since debdiffs are a bit larger.
[23:49] <Jazzva> That 99_autoconf patch has 1.5MB...
[23:50] <LaserJock> sounds about right
[23:50] <Jazzva> pochu: I'll be around for two more hours for sure, in case you have any questions/suggestions about changes :)
[23:50] <LaserJock> last autoconf patch I read was 1.49MB
[23:51] <Jazzva> LaserJock: That's huge... oh, well.
[23:52] <LaserJock> that's auto*
[23:52] <Jazzva> and that's a plus :)
[23:53] <Jazzva> pochu: Oh, bug 228827