james_wpickscrape: however, this gets pretty silly if upstream never commits anything and you just do update && commit --local over and over again00:00
james_wwhich is pretty silly in itself00:00
james_wpickscrape: I think this would be a worthy topic for discussion on the mailing list, are you subscribed?00:01
pickscrapeYes, you could end up with a really deep nest of what accounts to one merge00:01
pickscrapeI'm already composing one :)00:01
jelmerjml: 0.4.1000:37
jmljelmer: thank you.00:38
jmljelmer: btw, I have tribunal using subunit now.00:38
jml(it was you who was asking, right?)00:38
jelmerI'll give that a try soon00:39
jelmerwe're using subunit inside of samba 4 and it would be awesome to be able to use tribunal there00:40
jelmerlifeless: is there any news on your subunit patch for check?00:40
jmljelmer: it's still... rough00:41
jmljelmer: if I get more users than just "me sometimes", I promise I'll take better care of it.00:42
jelmerwell, we're used to rough :-)00:45
lifelessjelmer: they want docbook and other crap written up00:45
lifelessjelmer: which is afaict a higher standard than the previous code; I've kind of lost interest00:45
jelmerlifeless: ah, ok00:46
jelmerlifeless, I may have a look at finishing it then00:46
lifelessthat would be cool00:50
mxpxpodjelmer: ping?00:55
jelmermxpxpod, pong00:57
mxpxpodjelmer: I'm getting a strange exception using bzr-svn 0.4.10 and bzr 1.5rc100:58
mxpxpodjelmer: trying to push some changes00:58
mxpxpodjelmer: do you want me to file a bug or look at it here?00:59
jelmerplease file a bug00:59
mxpxpodjelmer: #22977501:04
jelmermxpxpod, thans01:10
jelmerlifeless, hmm, upstream appears to be dead01:10
lifelessfor check?01:10
lifelessits definitely dysfunctional IMO01:10
jelmerit's the only sane library of this sort for C though01:13
=== mwhudson__ is now known as mwhudson
lifelesswhich is why I patched01:24
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Verterokawilkins: pong (sorry for the delay)02:58
lifelessget_record_stream now behaving moderately sanely03:24
lifelessalthough not memory capped yet03:24
ricardokirknerhi. I don't know if this is the place to ask, but since it's related I'll just shoot: does anyone know the status of the trac-bzr project? is the dead - stable - or active? I ask because I want to start getting more into bzr and bzr-related development, and the trac-bzr project just scratches one of my itches :-)03:41
mlhricardokirkner: I think it has stalled - people thought that trac wasn't a good git for bzr03:53
mlhgood FIT03:53
mlhbut don't take my opinion as anything remotely official03:54
mlhthere's probably better alternatives (to trac) out there anyway03:54
ricardokirknermlh, and what would that alternative be?04:04
chandlercricardokirkner: you can always push your bzr repository into a subversion one for the purposes of running trac04:04
chandlercricardokirkner: i do this for all of my OSS projects (code.google.com rather than trac, but same principle)04:04
ricardokirknerchandlerc, not really, since bzr-svn (which I guess you are suggesting) does depend on the subversion 1.5 python bindings which are not readily available on all linux distributions04:05
chandlercyea, thats the price you pay04:05
ricardokirknerand my attempt is to make bzr adoption as low impact as possible04:05
chandlercwhat linux distro?04:05
ricardokirknerfedora at work04:05
chandlercubuntu has patched subversion packages, and i thought fedora did as well04:05
ricardokirknerand thats something I cannot change04:05
chandlercgentoo has them04:05
ricardokirknerno, fedora lacks behind a lot :-(04:05
chandlercso its not as big of a price as switching to svn 1.504:05
chandlercyou *can* do it by installing the python bits in the users home directory, but yea, kinda ups the ante of moving to bzr04:06
chandlerchowever, installing subversion python bindings is a *lot* easier than retrofitting vcs/project management tools like Trac, Retrospectiva, Collaboa, googlecode, sf.net, et al to use bzr04:06
chandlercoh, ohloh support comes free as well04:07
ricardokirknerchandlerc, you mean I can install the python subversion 1.5 bindings in my home folder, without them interfering with the system subversion installation04:07
ricardokirknerand that way using bzr-svn?04:07
chandlercits not as easy, but it can be done04:07
ricardokirknercan you give me some pointers for that?04:07
chandlercjust a sec, lemme look through the docs again and refresh myself04:07
chandlercricardokirkner: https://planning.acm.org/hq/documentation/version-control/installing-bzr-svn does this not work for you?04:09
chandlerceh, reading that, those instructions look moderately suspect04:10
ricardokirknerchandlerc, no, I tried that, but it more-or-less breaks the whole distro :-p04:12
ricardokirknerI think it is a bit outdated04:12
chandlerccan you install things on the system itself, or do you need it installed in the home dir?04:13
mlhricardokirkner: don't know offhand, sorry.  I was thinking of launchpad, but you're probably looking for something to host yourself/internally.04:13
ricardokirknerI can, but it is actually a nuisance, since I would have to do that on every developers computer04:13
ricardokirknermlh, exactly, thanks anyway04:14
mlhrumours are that canonical will open up launchpad code sometime04:14
mlhwhat features of trac do you particularly want?04:16
chandlercricardokirkner: would home dir help you with that?04:16
mlhissue -> code linking?  code browsing?04:16
ricardokirknerthe thing is we are already using trac internally for all projects, and since I am trying to convince them to move from svn to bzr, I need to disrupt as little as possible04:16
ricardokirkneroth, trac works well enough: code browsing, diff, wiki, issues04:17
chandlercmy recommendation would be to keep trac, and find a way to support bzr-svn... i looked at a lot of alternatives, and it seems the lowest effort way to introduce bzr04:17
ricardokirknerchandlerc, maybe, if it could be done in a zc.buildout-like manner, i think it would be quite painless04:17
chandlercricardokirkner: ok, lets go through this then, but i warn you that i haven't done these exact steps myself, so ymmv04:18
chandlerc^^ that is basically what you want to do04:18
chandlercbut instead of "./configure" you want to "./configure --prefix=/home/username"04:19
ricardokirknerchandlerc, you mean installing subversion 1.5 in the home dirs, and then somehow telling bzr to use that subversion installation?04:20
chandlercyou can do one step less invasive though04:20
ricardokirkneris it possible to only install the bindings, without having to install the svn client?04:20
mlhor install to /opt if you want others to see it04:20
chandlerci think (but am not 100% certain) if you can match up subversion source code version to the one installed on the system04:20
chandlercyou can "make install-swig-py" only04:20
chandlercand then just manipulate the Python environment variables to include the correct /home/username/lib/python... path04:21
chandlerci'm not a python guru, so that part I can't help as much with04:21
chandlercmlh: i think he wants to do something like re-tarball it all up post-installation so that each user can do a one-time untar and magically have it sitting in their home directory04:22
ricardokirknermhhh... I can try that... so if I could manage to install the python bindings locally (say to the home folder), I might even write a zc.buildout recipe that installs bzr (and all its dependencies including bzr-svn) to a developers sandbox04:22
chandlercmlh: /opt would require sudo or su access or the equivalent04:22
mlhoh yeah04:22
chandlercricardokirkner: i dunno anything about zc.buildout04:22
ricardokirknerpermissions are not an issue04:22
chandlercif permissions aren't an issue, then yea, use --prefix=/opt04:23
mlhthen /opt/subversion-v.x.z si a better option then04:23
chandlercand hell, you can roll out a full subversion-1.5.x install, and have people just use that version of subversion04:23
ricardokirknerand how do I tell bzr to use the /opt subversion?04:23
mlhI do that for solaris, and make a symlink /opt/subversion to the current version04:23
chandlercsame way for local04:23
chandlercyou just have to manipulate the Python search paths to find python libraries within the install tree04:24
chandlercwhatever that install tree is04:24
ricardokirknersupposing I dont want to modify the default subversion version04:24
chandlercthen find the sources for that exact version (including patches if possible) and just build install-swig-py04:24
chandlercer, just "make install-swig-py"04:24
ricardokirknerchandlerc, ok, so I just prepend the /opt/ paths before the /usr paths and that should do it, right?04:24
chandlercricardokirkner: theoretically... i'd follow mlh's suggestion and make it "/opt/subversion-1.4.?-pypatch" or something to distinguish it04:25
chandlercbut you can make Python look anywhere you please for its python libraries04:25
chandlercand bzr-svn just uses Python to "import" stuff04:25
ricardokirknerchandlerc, ok, great... I will look into it then tomorow at work...04:26
chandlercwith the correct Python environment variables, you can have it look first in your custom rolled subversion python bindings directory04:26
ricardokirknerthank you both for your suggestions04:26
chandlercwhat those might be, i can't help much with, being relatively ignorent of python04:26
chandlercbut that at least will be well documented04:26
chandlercnp, feel free to ping me if you run into issues04:26
chandlerci use bzr-svn heavily for this exact purpose04:26
chandlerc(no offense to launchpad, but googlecode is more to my minimalist style)04:27
ricardokirknerchandlerc, another question. so when using bzr-svn, you have found out that there are no issues due to the interoperability of bzr and svn? (i mean, nothing breaks)04:27
ricardokirknerwhat version are you using ? (of bzr-svn)04:28
chandlerclatest iirc04:29
chandlerci had one terrifying data-loss incident, but that was (i am mostly convinced) due to my own terrible mistakes. i was trying to do something i should not (and could not) do04:30
chandlercit ended up reverting a bzr repo to revision 104:30
chandlercthat was sad04:30
chandlerchowever, i recovered all the data by pulling back down from subversion... so no real problem with bzr-svn there04:30
ricardokirknerthat's not good pr :-)04:30
ricardokirknerah, ok04:31
chandlerceh, it just a "feature" of bzr... if you only have one branch around, and do something royally dumb....04:31
chandlercmy mistake was the only one branch part04:31
ricardokirknerso it commited everything fine, and you could grab latest version from svn04:31
ricardokirknerall through bzr-svn04:31
ricardokirknerthat is good pr :-)04:31
chandlerchere, take a look at an active repo if you like: http://code.google.com/p/inc/04:31
pickscrapeSorry to interject, but why was trac considered to not be a good fit for bzr?04:32
pickscrapeWe were hoping to use it ourselves04:32
chandlercthe python web app apparently meshes better with non-python vcs than with python vcs... go figure04:32
chandlerci worked on trac briefly... i was not impressed by their internal design. thats where i would look first for reasons why it didn't work out04:33
pickscrapeBy that I presume you mean it also has issues with mercurial?04:33
ricardokirknerchandlerc, well, svn already existed long time before svn, so it actually makes sense04:33
chandlercricardokirkner: oh i know, svn support being better makes sense. git and mercurial support before bzr is a little unusual04:33
ricardokirknerI mean trac existed before bzr04:34
chandlerctrue as well04:34
bob2isn't trac from like late 200404:34
chandlercthey really struggled making their system interoperate with other VCSes back when i was working on the project. i dunno if they've gotten all the cruft refactored, but back then it was pretty awful04:34
bob2ah, early 200404:35
pickscrapeThe framework is basically all plugins now from what I know.04:35
chandlerci never looked back. retrospectiva is a much saner web app if that's what you need, and for project hosting i enjoy googlecode04:35
chandlerci'd love to see something like retro done in python on top of turbo gears or django in order to cooperate nicely with all the python bindings for VCSes out there04:35
ricardokirkneryeah, might be, but trac make sense for internal application design04:35
ricardokirknerwhere you don't want to host your code outside04:36
chandlercricardokirkner: retro = trac on ruby on rails04:36
chandlercricardokirkner: its perfectly well suited to that use case, i was tasked with working on such a design at a previous company04:37
pickscrapeIn Trac 0.10, the VCS backend is entirely a plugin (AIUI), so theoretically you should be able to shove anything in there.04:37
ricardokirknerchandlerc, well..... looking at the tickets list, the first one is 'Multiple SCM support' , so apparently they too haven't solved it yet04:37
chandlercricardokirkner: correct, i've been using svn as a multiple SCM support layer because git, mercurial, and bzr all will speak svn04:38
chandlercpickscrape: the problem is that shoving stuff into trac is notoriously challenging04:38
chandlercpickscrape: but yes, you could build a plugin for trac, and it probably wouldn't be terrible to do04:38
ricardokirknerwell, thank you guys, I'll be off now... I'll try your suggestions tomorrow04:39
pickscrapeBut the plugin already exists.04:39
chandlerc=] goodluck! and keep with the bzr!04:39
chandlercpickscrape: it does?04:39
* ricardokirkner waves good-night04:39
pickscrapeYes, there's a trac bzr plugin04:39
ricardokirkneryes, that is what I am using04:39
pickscrapeLast commit was March this year.04:41
pickscrapeAnyway, I'm off to bed. :)04:42
lifeless(v1, 'unknown verb')05:16
* igc picking up kids - bbiab05:43
gnomefreakanyone here that can give me a hand with an error when pushing a bzr branch to LP?05:51
spivgnomefreak: sure, what's the error?05:51
gnomefreakspiv: 1 sec im getting it and i will pastebin it05:52
* gnomefreak cant open browser05:54
gnomefreakspiv: gnomefreak@Development:~/extensions_build$ bzr push bzr+ssh://gnomefreak@bazaar.launchpad.net/~gnomefreak/firefox-extensions/firegpg.ubuntu05:54
gnomefreakPermission denied (publickey).05:54
gnomefreakbzr: ERROR: Connection closed: please check connectivity and permissions (and try -Dhpss if further diagnosis is required)05:54
gnomefreaksorry my browser isnt working05:54
mwhudsonthere's a clue in there05:54
mwhudson"Permission denied (publickey)."05:54
gnomefreakmwhudson: permissions05:54
gnomefreakyes but why05:54
gnomefreakmy .ssh has wrong permissions?05:55
spivgnomefreak: that's openssh's way of saying it can't authenticate with the server05:55
spivprobably because the SSH key you have on your computer doesn't match the public key(s) you have in Launchpad.05:55
mwhudsongnomefreak: could be that, or more likely you don't have the correct key in your key agent or something05:55
mwhudsongnomefreak: you could try05:55
mwhudsonssh -vv gnomefreak@bazaar.launchpad.net05:56
gnomefreakpermission denied as well05:56
mwhudsoni can connect to the server ok, so it's /probably/ not some system wide problem05:56
mwhudsonyou should have got a page or two of output first05:56
gnomefreakmy key shouold be fine since i got it from  usb stick05:56
gnomefreakmwhudson: i did05:56
mwhudsonwell, did it should ssh presenting the key you expected to work?05:57
spivmwhudson: s/should/show/05:57
mwhudsonspiv: thanks05:57
gnomefreakmwhudson: ran out of reading it over atm05:57
gnomefreakoh no sorry 2 posts niether complete05:58
gnomefreakdebug1: Host 'bazaar.launchpad.net' is known and matches the RSA host key.05:59
gnomefreakdebug1: Found key in /home/gnomefreak/.ssh/known_hosts:105:59
gnomefreakthat tells me it works no?05:59
spivNo, that's the host key05:59
spivThat's just SSH checking that the server isn't being spoofed.06:00
gnomefreakthats odd shouldnt there be more than one file in ~/.ssh?06:00
gnomefreakonly one there is known_hosts06:01
spivIf you have a keypair, yes, there should be.06:01
gnomefreaki might have forgotten to grab dir off usb stick after i reinstalle06:01
spivTypically you'd also have "id_dsa" and "id_dsa.pub", if you have a DSA keypair.06:01
gnomefreaki got password dialog06:03
gnomefreaklooks like bzr crashed06:03
gnomefreakhttp://pastebin.mozilla.org/429931 is what i get when trying to push06:05
mwhudsonnow _that_ is obscure06:06
gnomefreakthat is bzr problem not so much LP or me right?06:06
mwhudsonwell, i guess it's a bzr-svn problem06:07
mwhudsongnomefreak: can you try again with --no-plugins06:07
gnomefreakthat got rid of traceback issue06:09
gnomefreakthat looked like it worked with --no-plugins and --use-existing-dir06:10
spivgnomefreak: please file a bug on bzr-svn with that traceback, I'm fairly sure that's not meant to happen06:11
gnomefreakspiv: will do shortly06:11
spivgnomefreak: thanks!06:12
gnomefreakanytime. thanks for the help :)06:12
dhdhi - I want to take one repository and import it into a subdirectory of another repository - how do I do this?06:13
jameshdhd: you can use "bzr branch" to move each branch in the first repository to the second06:20
bob2multi-pull or repo-push might help automate it06:21
gnomefreakspiv: mwhudson the bug is filed its bug 229819 please let me know if more info is needed, thanks again for your help06:22
ubottuLaunchpad bug 229819 in bzr "bzr-svn gave traceback during push" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22981906:22
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nbjaymehello every one.  i have a branch that i created under a shared repository and I don't need it anymore. Is it okay to just delete it?  or is there a proper way to delete a branch under a shared repo.10:22
james_wnbjayme: just deleting it is fine10:27
nbjaymethanks james_w.10:27
james_whowever the space taken up by its unique revision data will not be freed.10:27
james_wthere's currently no garbage collection command to do this, if it is going to be significant for you you can do it by hand, creating a new shared repository and branching over all the other braches.10:28
nbjaymeokay. thanks for that helpful tips.  it'll help me in informing the participants during the Bazaar workshop. :)10:29
nbjaymeone more thing, supposing i created branchA under a shared repo than later on I renamed it as BranchB will bzr still relate the commits of BranchB to BranchA (it's previous name)?  or will bzr create another repository batch different for BranchB unrelated to previous commit when it was Branch A...?10:33
nbjaymei assume bzr doesn't care whatever the name of the branch under the shared repo. as long as it keeps the .bzr folder files intact.  am I right on this?10:34
nbjaymeyep. it did.  thanks for the info and patience.10:37
PengAugh, I was just about to say that to him.10:38
Kamping_Kaiserwhat if you add something youve already added? does bzr simply ignore you?11:59
spivKamping_Kaiser: right12:00
Kamping_Kaiserspiv, thanks12:01
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gouri just read http://www.infoq.com/articles/dvcs-guide and see that it says that "end of line conversions" is planned for bzr-1.6. what it is exactly and any eta for 1.6?12:32
gouri.e. does it refer to unix/mac/win stuff or text vs. binary?12:33
spivgour: we release on a monthly schedule, more-or-less.12:35
spiv1.5 is due out at the end of this week, so 1.6 should be about a month after that.12:36
spivIt refers to unix/mac/win stuff, if I understand your meaning correctly.12:36
spivi.e. the ability to say "these files are text files, and so please do the Right Thing with their line endings depending on my platform"12:37
spivThere's a bunch of recent discussion on the mailing list with the details.12:38
gourspiv: very nice. i'm looking for (possible) alternative to darcs (for a haskell project) and see there are some gui tools available for bzr for win32 users ;)12:38
spivYeah, that's an area of active development.12:38
* gour is looking at ml12:38
gourgit is way too complicated to push to my dev-friends12:39
* spiv nods12:39
spivWe try to make bzr a pleasure to use.  It's not perfect, but we're working on that :)12:40
gouri was looking at hg as well when wanting to move from darcs, but stayed with darcs; darcs-2 is nice but no gui tool for windoze and future is also not certain12:41
gouri anticipate that decentralized workflow with human gatekeeper would be our choice12:42
gourrcs should be a tool to help and not spending weeks to master it. one reason i like darcs12:42
spivDo let us know if we're doing a good job on that front or not :)12:44
spivFeedback from new users is always good to have.12:44
goursure. will play a bit with it and try gui tools.12:44
gouranyone can give brief comparison with darcs?12:45
* gour is researching how is bzr supported with emacs12:46
spivSomeone probably can, but not me I'm afraid.12:46
spivSome of our developers use emacs, so I assume quite well :)12:47
gourspiv: ok. thans12:47
spiv(I'm a vim user, so again, not much help for you!)12:47
spivI think there's a generic "DVCS" mode or something that apparently supports bzr quite well.12:47
* gour migrated to emacs some months go12:47
gourright, that's the one with bad support for darcs - http://download.gna.org/dvc/12:48
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gourheh, DVC uses bzr12:50
spivemacs itself is planning to use bzr as well, I believe.12:51
gouryeah, but it's not easy12:53
goureol is huge topic, indeed...13:08
* gour --> lunch. bbl13:08
pickscrapeIs there any way to silence the DeprecationWarning messages?13:47
* gour just installed bzr-gtk on his archlinux machine, but it crashes13:55
gourhere is the trace - http://rafb.net/p/uqKwzD16.html13:55
gourbzr --version ==> 1.313:56
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jelmergour: that's a known issue. for now, you need to have seahors einstalled13:57
gourahh, i recently got rid of xfce running xmonad + xmobar only13:59
gourok, will tolerate it for testing purposes - only 2 extra pkgs14:00
gourjelmer: thanks. now it works14:01
gourbtw, it's nice to see bzr's initial screen with basic commands :-)14:02
gouralthough (now) git presents saner interface as well14:03
gourwhat is the use-case for for bzrtool's rspush command over builtin push?14:09
bob2it was a lot faster, back in the day14:15
* gour is curios whether to install bzrtools or not14:18
gourmostly due to shelve command14:18
bob2shelve is handy14:20
bob2as is cdiff14:20
gourcdiff? not seeing it as part of tools14:21
gourby reading several posts today, i got impression that bzr is improving in speed-issues, so i wonder about the issue described here http://dave-programming.blogspot.com/2008/04/switching-to-mercurial.html ?14:43
james_wnetwork perforance is known to be the biggest performance weak-spot at the moment, and it is being worked on14:44
james_wv3 of the smart server protocol will land soon, and that will provide a base on which to speed up a lot of operations.14:45
james_wI don't know all the details though, so if you want to know more about what is in v3 you will have to ask someone more knowledgeable, sorry.14:45
james_win that specific case though I imagine that the server is not performing the diff, and as such all of the data for the file is being downloaded.14:46
james_wI might be completely wrong there, but it would probably account for the time it took.14:46
gourjames_w: thank you for the input14:47
awilkinsgah. Anyone know about Java streams (not entire non-bzr related)14:47
awilkinsDammit, where's Guillermo when you want him14:47
james_wawilkins: you mean the new things in 1.5/1.6, or the old InputStream etc.?14:48
awilkinsjames_w: Sockets, Input/Output streams, and blocking14:48
james_whi ignas14:48
james_wawilkins: sorry, I don't think I can help with that, it's been a while since I did any Java14:48
ignasI am working on migration from svn to bzr, and the most difficult part for me is trying to come up with the new workflow and explaining it to other developers on my team14:48
menacewhen a branch from one code-development line is created.. how difficult is it to synchronize it later with this code-development-line (in svn-terms "with the trunk")?14:49
menacewhich actions have to be done?14:49
Zindarmenace: 1000 times easier then with svn :)14:49
ignasi have a stab at documenting it in http://ignas.pov.lt/setting_up_bzr_schooltool_sandbox.html and would be very glad if someone with some actual bzr experience could look at it14:49
awilkinsI've got Mr A-Ms "service" plugin going as the underlying supplier for this bzr-eclipse thing ; it makes certain operations magnificently nippy14:49
james_wignas: bzr is designed to be partially compatible with svn in command line syntax, so  checkout, status, diff, commit, update should get you quite some way14:49
Zindarmenance: you simply merge in "trunk" to the development branch14:50
menaceZindar: i believe this, but i want to know the difference. i'm comparing several SCMS right now14:50
Zindarcheck that it looks ok14:50
Zindarand commit14:50
Zindarthat's it14:50
ignasjames_w: yeah, but management of backports of features and bugfixes from trunk to release14:50
gourany (ex)darcs user here?14:50
ignasjames_w: is done quite differently14:50
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james_wignas: ah, in that case you want feature branches I expect14:50
Zindargour: used it for tests a few years ago14:50
awilkinsmenace: For comparison with SVN ; I've been doing multi-branch merging in bzr as a project requirement for some months now and it kicks the crap out of SVN.14:51
menaceok, only to make sure, that i got it: i have the "main line" 1 and a a line 2 was created from 1. i edited a few things in 2 and then i merge the line 1 into line 2?14:51
james_wmenace: "bzr merge" should be all it takes in that situation.14:51
menaceis my suggestions of the workflow right here? :)14:52
gourjames_w: anything like darcs-send & darcs-apply here?14:52
james_wmenace: that will get all of trunk's changes since you branched in to your branch, if you want to get the changes back in to trunk that's one or two more steps.14:52
awilkinsgour: bzr send and bzr merge14:52
ignasjames_w: i want them, but as I can't expect everyone on the team to go read bzr documentation and learn the best practices, i have to document at least the simple use scenario for someone who wants to work on new features and deploy them without commiting to trunk14:52
james_wgour: take a look at "bzr send", it's not the same as "darcs send", but it's what we came up with to do a similar thing.14:52
james_wignas: sure, I'll take a look at your document in a minute.14:53
ignasjames_w: thanks14:53
gourthank you guys...let me read some docs...14:54
james_wgour: "bzr send" was written partly because of someone else saying how much better darcs was than bzr at this, so if there is anything else you miss from the send command let us know, as it might be worthwhile addition.14:54
gourjames_w: heh, cool...i'll give you feedback...14:56
gourso, bundle prepared with bzr send can be merged with bzr merge?14:59
* gour is reading 'plugins' page15:01
ricardokirknerhi. I am trying to use bzr-svn in fedora where the subversion 1.5 python bindings haven't been backported. for that I installed subversion trunk into /opt and after that I installed bzr-svn. after pointing PYTHONPATH to /opt/subversion/lib, I get no warnings when running bzr plugins, but nevertheless I cannot correctly check out a svn branch.15:36
ricardokirknerwhen doing bzr selftest svn I get errors.15:36
ricardokirknerhow can I make sure the /opt subversion installation is being used?15:36
ricardokirknerI just wiped every other subversion installation from my devel machine, so I am sure the only version I have is from svn trunk, and I am getting the following error (bzr selftest svn fails): ython: subversion/libsvn_ra/ra_loader.c:1025: svn_ra_get_log2: Assertion `*path != '/'' failed. any ideas?15:55
asabilricardokirkner: not sure, but you probably also want an LD_LIBRARY_PATH15:57
ricardokirkneryeah... sorry, tried that too16:00
ignasjames_w: did you find anything obvious mistakes in the document?16:12
james_wignas: ah, sorry, distracted by food and secret keys, I'll look now16:13
datoheh, secret keys16:13
james_wignas: first thing, "bzr init-repo" takes a directory argument, so you don't need two commands, though making it clear that a directory is being created might be useful.16:17
ignasi see16:19
james_wis your aim for people to just create the branches, and then you will be the gatekeeper who does the merges?16:19
ignasyes, as I am responsible for making releases, so I decide what goes where and when most of the time16:21
ignasit used to be that everything was being commited to trunk and i would have to fish out the revisions to backport myself16:21
ignasso it kind of transferrs that part of the job to other commiters now ;)16:21
ignasas this is the initial step of migration, i am trying to keep it simple, and not explaining how one would go about merging changes + backporting them to releases himself16:22
james_wI see you explain feature branches later, cool.16:22
james_wI like the title of the last section :-)16:22
james_wit looks pretty good though, I can't see any obvious errors, and you've covered the big things.16:23
ricardokirknerwhen using bzr to handle svn branches, is merging done by bzr or by svn?16:23
ignasjames_w: well - it is a major increase in complexity compared to "we use svn and commit everything to trunk" workflow ...16:24
james_wricardokirkner: bzr16:24
gourif i want to provide public mirror of my local repo via bzr push, there is no need for bzr on the server?16:24
james_wignas: yep, but you don't need to convince me of the benefits :-)16:25
james_wgour: no, but you get increased performance if there is.16:25
james_wgour: you can just "bzr push sftp://..." and then if that location is accessible via http people can just do "bzr branch http://..."16:26
ricardokirknerjames_w, so if I manage my branches with bzr, but have those branches stored in a centralized svn repository, I get all the benefits from bzr (decentralized, good merging, ...) but everything is stored by svn,16:26
james_wricardokirkner: I think it should all work fine from bzr's view16:26
gourjames_w: does push works over ssh as well?16:26
ricardokirknerI am trying to figure this out, because I am trying to push the use of bzr at my work, where everything is svn right now16:27
james_wricardokirkner: however, I don't know what the svn client will think has happened. I imagine it all works fine, but it has no idea the branches have had any interaction.16:27
ricardokirknerand unfortunately I am struggling with bzr-svn because fedora (which is what they use here) doesn't have the 1.5 bindings backported yet16:27
james_wgour: sftp:// is ssh, you can use bzr+ssh:// if the server has bzr installed.16:27
james_wricardokirkner: yeah, I saw that, that's a shame.16:28
gourjames_w: but sftp requires some setup on the server, right?16:28
ricardokirknerjames_w, I just saw in svn that they have 1.5-rc5, do you think it will be long before they release 1.5?16:29
james_wgour: I don't think so, I don't know if it's real sftp, or just the name we use for it. I suspect the former, but it required no setup here, and I've never seen anyone ask how to get it to work. Do you have a setup that wouldn't be expected to have this already?16:30
james_wricardokirkner: I have no idea I'm afraid.16:30
ricardokirknerok... thanks anyway16:31
james_wricardokirkner: I know jelmer was also working on avoiding the 1.5 bindings altogether by implementing his own with pyrex, I don't know if that will happen before svn 1.516:31
gourjames_w: i'll check it right now16:31
james_wgour: it works fine with no setup on a Debian/Ubuntu server at least.16:31
james_wricardokirkner: I'm just going to look if anyone has ever requested fedora backport the bindings.16:32
* gour is doing bzr push...let's see16:38
gourkind a slow...16:39
gourok, the repo is pushed, now lets pull back...17:01
gourit works...cool17:03
jelmerricardokirkner: try bzr-svn 0.4.9817:22
ricardokirknerwhat changed?17:22
ricardokirknersorry jelmer , 0.4.98? or 0.4.9 or 0.4.8?17:24
jelmersvn is more picky about input parameters17:24
ricardokirknerjelmer, now the tests fail with No default access_method or index any more17:29
ricardokirknerand the checkout also fails, but with python: Objects/classobject.c:2281: instancemethod_dealloc: Assertion `g->gc.gc_refs != (-2)' failed.17:29
jelmerah, yes - you'll need bzr < 1.4 for 0.4.9 to work :-(17:31
ricardokirknerok, i'll try17:32
ricardokirknerdo you know anything about the checkout error?17:32
ricardokirknerthe same error was happening before17:33
=== kiko is now known as kiko-fud
=== mw is now known as mw|food
menacedid someone already tried ACLs with bazaar?19:03
james_wmenace: what sort of ACL?19:06
menacePrivileges of Reading/Writing to certain parts of the sourcecode repository19:07
ricardokirknerok, apparently it is working (using bzr-svn in fedora), albeit only through svn:// and not through http://19:08
menacehm :/19:08
james_wmenace: so that would have to be implemented in bzr?19:08
james_win which case I haven't heard of it being implemented.19:08
jelmerricardokirkner: is subversion built against libneon?19:11
gnomefreakis there a way once branch is pushed to remove the source files and leave debian dir. in place? i pushed the source files by mistake19:12
ricardokirknermhh.... it isn't by default, I am guessing right now :-) (i just did ./configure --prefix)19:12
ricardokirkneri'll fix it and let you know19:12
james_wgnomefreak: the debian dir, do you mean that, or the .bzr dir?19:17
gnomefreakjames_w: debian19:18
gnomefreakthe branch should only be the debian dir and .bzr afaik the source files shouldnt be there19:18
gnomefreaki have a separate source branch19:18
james_wso you have project/.bzr and project/debian/.bzr?19:19
=== thekorn_ is now known as thekorn
=== kiko-fud is now known as kiko
james_wand you ran "bzr push" in the "project" directory when you mean to run it in "project/debian/"?19:19
gnomefreakjames_w: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~gnomefreak/firefox-extensions/firegpg.ubuntu should only pull debian dir not everything19:19
gnomefreakbzr branch lp:~gnomefreak/firefox-extensions/firegpg.ubuntu19:19
james_wgnomefreak: ah, so the problem isn't specifically with push, it's that you versioned all the source with bzr when you only wanted to version "debian/"?19:21
gnomefreakhttps://code.edge.launchpad.net/~gnomefreak/firefox-extensions/firegpg.upstream  << should be only branch with these sources19:21
gnomefreakjames_w: yes19:21
gnomefreakbut i did bzr add debian19:21
gnomefreakand commit than push and it pushed everything19:21
james_wbecause you started with a "bzr branch firegpg.upstream firegpg.ubuntu" presumably?19:23
james_wthen that's the expected behaviour19:24
gnomefreaki guess easiest would be to delete branch and repush correctly19:24
james_wand as I understood it, this was the plan for the extension packaging.19:24
gnomefreakjames_w: yes i know im trying to correct it19:24
gnomefreakjames_w: there should be an .upstrewam and a .ubuntu ubuntu == debian dir upstream == upstream source fiels19:25
james_wI realise that's not what's done with the firefox packages themselves currently, but I would recommend it for the extensions.19:25
gnomefreakupstream and ubuntu together?19:25
gnomefreakwhen upstream changes we would rather not start with old upstream sources19:26
james_wif you like we can move this to mozillateam, as I think they would be more interested in this discussion than #bzr19:26
gnomefreakjames_w: ok19:26
ricardokirknerjames_w, I think it is compiled with neon support. nevertheless if it works through svn it is enough for me. I can have all my branches be branches of the main branch which lies in svn (in order to have good trac support), and work with bzr on the child branches19:29
jelmerricardokirkner: if libneon-dev isn't installed it will build without http support19:32
ricardokirknerjelmer, no, I have libneon-dev installed19:32
jelmerricardokirkner: and you're using svn+http:// when specifying the URL?19:32
ricardokirknerno, just http (i have svn webdav installed in the web server)19:33
jelmeryou may need to specify svn+http:// when specifying URLs to bzr because of a bazaar bug19:34
ricardokirknerno, something isn't working, when trying http:// or svn+http://, I get python: Objects/classobject.c:2281: instancemethod_dealloc: Assertion `g->gc.gc_refs != (-2)' failed.19:36
jelmerhmm, that looks like a python-subversion bug19:37
gouri'm inspecting emacs' DVC repo..bzr tags gives: Tags not supported by BzrBranch5. anyone can explain?19:54
fullermdWell, pretty much what it says   :)20:06
fullermdThe Branch5 branch format doesn't support tags.  You need Branch6 for that, and apparently the branch in question isn't.20:07
gouri mean, how 'new' is that feature?20:09
fullermdThat came in with 0.15 (April 1 2007).  So not particularly new.20:10
gourohh, it means the repos is quite old20:11
fullermdWell, the format still works with newer versions, so it could be being intentionally kept back for known older clients.20:12
* gour just finished looking at ian's (igc) slides: getting started with bazaar20:12
gournice stuff20:13
CroXI have FTP access to a box, but not root. Could I use that for centralized development with Bazaar?20:53
CroXEg, does Bazaar require any "listening software" to handle requests or can it just read the .bzr catalog and use that?20:53
radixCroX: You definitely don't need to run any software as root.20:54
CroXradix: Yeah, but do I need to run any software at all for the centralized part? I have a web hotel which I want to use to commit to. We all got dynamic IP's, so commiting and merging from eachother doesn't work too well.20:56
radixCroX: If all you have is an FTP account, though, you would need to share the account details with everyone who is able to commit20:56
CroXThat would be a problem. Alright, so reading the folder with the .bzr subfolder is all that's needed. Awesome!20:56
=== mw|food is now known as mw
=== mwhudson_ is now known as mwhudson
schmichaelhow bad of an idea is it to use bzr on large binary files?22:42
schmichaeli'd like to keep all my documents including music and photos synced between computers22:42
beunoschmichael, probably pretty bad22:43
pygi++ on that22:43
beunoI'd go with rsync for something like that22:43
beunoI've tried, it aint pretty22:43
schmichaelbeuno: ha, thanks!  thats kind of what i expected, but i thought i'd check22:43
beunoyou'll get conflicts, enourmos repos, out of memory errors...22:43
pickscrapeCan/will that be improved as development continues, or is that likely to always be the case?22:44
mwhudsonyou can end up needing to have about three times the ram of the largest file you're versioning, or something22:44
pickscrapeI don't particularly need to do that right now, but it's always nice to know about such things. :)22:44
mwhudsonpickscrape: yeah, this will probably get better over time22:44
mwhudsoni wouldn't have thought photos or music would be too terribly bad22:45
mwhudsonisos, on the other hand :)22:45
* pickscrape is currently writing a presentation to demo/sell bzr to his colleagues22:45
beunopickscrape, I do, on the other hand, use bzr to version large-ish binary files (50-300mb)22:46
beunowe do web development, and everything has to be versioned, so gfx people have their videos que large images in a repo22:46
beunoRAM is an issue sometimes, but bzr is getting better pretty fast22:47
beunoand, I bought a bigger HD  :)22:47
pickscrapeCan anyone suggest bullet points for why bzr and not hg/git?22:48
beunopickscrape, igc setup a page of comparisons22:48
beunobut I think the failsafe answer is that bzr is mucho more user friendly in general22:49
nDuffpickscrape, see the web page. ease-of-use, though, is a massive one -- particular re git22:49
nDuffpickscrape, http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrVsGit, http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrVsHg22:50
pickscrapeThe annoying thing is I started out looking at git, then hg and finally bzr, but by the time I'd decided that I preferred git I couldn't exactly remember the reasons :)22:53
pickscrapeSorry, preferred bzr22:53
pickscrapeYeah, the user friendly argument works very well against git, but less so against hg.22:53
beunopickscrape, if it's for an open source project22:55
beunoLP is a good argument too22:55
beunosuper-cool free hosting22:55
pickscrapeIt's not, unfortunately.22:55
mlhnot super-cool or not free ? :-)22:56
pickscrapeNot open-source22:56
pickscrapeThose two pages are an excellent reference, thanks!22:58
demodschmichael: on your question about syncing large files: have a look at "unison", it's easier to sync both ways with it than with rsync, imho23:02
demodbeuno: is LP really such a good argument? i mean there is github (free for small projects iirc), freehg.org, etc.23:05
beunodemod, AFAIK, none of those have a pseudo-unlimited size, code view, revision navigation, rights managment, bugs, etc etc etc23:07
schmichaeldemod: i've looked at unison but was scared off because it sounded like its no longer maintained23:07
demodbeuno: ok, you are probably right ,)23:07
beunoI don't think there's anything out there that provides something even close23:07
pygibeuno, gitorious will have soon23:08
pygibut anyway, no fights :)23:08
beunodemod, and, of course, you can use bzr without LP perfectly. I was just throwing ideas at him  :)23:08
beunopygi, well, we'll see what LP has soon  :p23:08
pygibeuno, true :)23:09
demodschmichael: i believe i installed a new version a week or two ago, but can't really spot any release dates on the unison homepage atm... hm23:09
demodbeuno: kk ,)23:09
demodpickscrape: btw. you really got to read the response from the mercurial team on the BzrVsHg entry imho23:10
mlhschmichael: I believe it's maintained; it's just very stable.23:11
* demod should idle less23:11
mlhnot that I ever used it much23:11
schmichaeldemod, mlh: thanks, i'll try it out23:11
beunoany idea on how to get "the revision previous to X"?23:11
beunoby using revid23:12
mwhudsonbeuno: with the api?23:12
beunomwhudson, good old command line  :)23:13
beunomaybe I could use --limit and ..revid:X23:13
mwhudsonbzr revision-info -r $(($(bzr revno -r revid:...) - 1)) ? :)23:14
beunobut that gives me the revidX23:14
beunomwhudson, almost!  that gives me the next one (ie. X == revno 3, it gives me back revno 4)23:15
jammwhudson: what is wrong with before: ?23:16
mwhudsonjam: i didn't know about it :)23:16
jambeuno: bzr -r before:revid:XXXX23:16
mwhudsonbeuno: listen to jam :)23:16
beunojam, that's it, thanks  :)23:17
beunomwhudson, ditto  :)23:18
beunomornin' lifeless23:19
mwhudsonhi lifeless23:20
beunoyay!  works!23:30
* beuno starts preparing to release the php-bzr thingie23:30
beunomerges are a pain in the *rs if you have to keep bzr's history in sync with a DB23:32
beunovila, ^^^23:34
jambeuno: merges are a pain in the stars? or did you mean *rse?23:44
jamWhat do you mean about bzr history versus DB?23:44
jamout of curiosity23:44
beunojam, arse  :)23:44
beunojam, well, I have bzr's history in a DB23:45
beunoand, when merges happen all around23:45
beunorevno 177 suddenly is revno 6, with a whole lot of subrevnos23:45
jambeuno: well, you wouldn't have to cache the revnos :)23:46
jambeuno: further, a specific revno should never become anything but a dotted revno23:46
beunojam, I do if the interface uses mysql to show 'em23:46
jamif that helps23:46
jam'revno' has only 1 possible value if it is a simple integer23:46
beunojam, well, it becomes part of a different revno23:46
beunoa merge23:47
beunoand I wanted to represent it properly23:47
beunoso, what I did up to know, is detect merges23:47
mwhudsonlaunchpad has separate revision and branchrevision tables23:47
beunodelete the history from the DB, and re-generate23:47
jambeuno: if it were me, I would probably use a 2 pass check23:47
jamif the revision is a simple decendent from the previous tip23:47
jamjust do some quick numbering23:47
jamif it isn't23:47
jamcall branch.get_revision_id_to_revno_map() and just rebuild the cache23:48
beunojam, if I could do calls to bzrlib, it would be very easy23:48
jamyou technically only have to rebuild things that are outside of the common left-hand ancestry23:48
beunobut I don't want to use anything besides bzr and php23:48
beunoso it's bzr + xmloutput, which PHP writes into the DB23:48
jambeuno: write a plugin :)23:48
jamyou're already using xmloutput23:49
jamso you can obviously have custom functions/plugins23:49
jambeuno: if you care, 'bzr revision-info' can take multiple arguments per pass23:49
beunoI was hoping XMl would go into the core23:49
beunoand eliminate the use of plugins23:50
jambzr revision-info -r -1..-2..-3..-4..-5..-623:50
beunojam, that sounds interesting...23:50
jamIt certainly isn't something that comes up often :)23:51
beunoI should see if that speeds things up23:51
jambeuno: alternatively you don't need the -r23:51
beunoanyway, I wanted to have something better than drop the history and reload23:51
jambzr revision-info -- -1 -2 -3 -4 -523:51
jambeuno: if you do23:51
jambzr revision-history OLD23:51
beunoso now I just start going back one revision until I get the same revid/revno in DB and in bzr23:51
jambzr revision-history NEW23:51
jamif you can find how much of history is the same23:52
jamyou only need to rebuild ones that are ancestors of the tips23:52
jambut it sounds like you might be doing that anyway23:52
beunojam, yes, I should try using revision-info and/ir revision-history and see if makes it faster23:53
beunobut, for now, I want to finish cleaning it up and open source it23:53
beunothen, start making it better23:53
beunobut that definitely sounds faster than using log -r23:53
beunoit got tricky when we had to re-generate 1000k revision repos into XML 30 times a day  :)23:54
jam1M revision repos sounds pretty big23:59

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