[00:03] asac < you see ? it's what it should be :p [00:04] yeah ... maybe a bios thing? [00:04] i have the same ethernet driver here and it works like a charm [00:05] hum but how do you explain that it works well on windows XP and gutsy ? [00:05] without touching the bios meanwhile [00:05] hard to say ;) [00:05] =) [00:05] is it possible ? ^^ [00:06] everything is possible :) [00:06] Fallenou: when did you upgrade to hardy? [00:07] on monday [00:07] but when i saw that it didn't work well (for the network) i installed from scratch with Hardy ISO CD [00:07] the same day [00:07] so it's not anymore an upgrade [00:11] Fallenou: do you get any process with ps -eaf | grep dhcdbd [00:11] ? [00:13] yes [00:13] one [00:14] root 5443 1 0 00:31 ? 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/dhcdbd --system [00:15] is it normal asac ? [00:17] yes [00:17] i assigned your bug to kernel package now [00:17] i'd try to update bios and hope that its that. [00:17] but that is just me ;) [00:18] ok thank :) [00:18] do you think i should remove/change/add some more information/file on the bug page ? [00:19] no. if they need more information, they will probably ask [00:19] ok i will check the page everyday [00:19] thank you for your help and your time :) [00:19] 'im gonna borrow some network card tomorrow ^^ [00:20] maybe a good idea ;) [00:20] :) [00:20] thanks a lot, really [00:20] np. sorry for being not more helpful ;) [00:21] you gimme your time that's the best you could do :) [00:21] good evening/night/morning [00:21] i'm going to bed =) === secretlondo is now known as secretlondon === jjesse_ is now known as jjesse [04:09] Hello is there anyone who can help me to decide what to do related with a vedy important bug related with xubuntu, Turkish locale. There's a report in launchpad written bya non-Turkish friend but some other people marked it as a duplicate of another bug; for me this is not the case. Would you please mentor me what to do? [04:12] anyone having issues with the update to openssh-server on gutsy? [04:12] JohnPhys: What sort of issues? [04:12] @all: anyone out there playing with bluetooth services? It seems that SDP is lacking somethings... it breaks with most of clients using serial port profile (ID list 0x1101). [04:12] Your (stupidly compromised) SSH public key being denied? [04:13] Deniz_Ogut: If you believe the bugs are not the same you can unmark it as a duplicate. At the same time, you should provide information on the bug (which you are removing the duplicate status of) as to why you believe it to not be a duplicate. [04:14] @RAOF: Thank you. I'll do so. [04:14] RAOF: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11965/ [04:17] JohnPhys: Hm. I haven't seen that; it's possible that the update is broken. Have you checked launchpad? [04:20] RAOF: closest I can find is Bug #230147, but that bug is for hardy, which worked for me this morning. I'm having issues with the gutsy package. [04:20] Launchpad bug 230147 in openssh "package openssh-server 1:4.7p1-8ubuntu1.1 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230147 [04:22] JohnPhys: Hardy works for me, too. I'd suggest filing a new bug, with /var/log/dpkg* and other such goodies. [04:22] Should I mark it at as a security issue, since the update is a security-related one I think? Or not? [04:30] I just found the bug (#227429). Is anyone working on this? [04:30] RAOF: Looks like the fix is already up ( Bug #230003 ) Odd that that didn't show up when I searched "openssh-server" but showed up in the bug report. I guess I have to wait for the fix to trickle over to the mirror I use. [04:30] Launchpad bug 230003 in openssh "gutsy: openssh-server won't install or upgrade: debconf error - /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/templates has a duplicate field "template"" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230003 [04:33] JohnPhys: Maybe your mirror hasn't sync'd the new version yet? [04:34] JohnPhys: Gah. EWRONGCONTEXT. Sorry. [04:41] RAOF: It's all right, they'll get it soon enough, I can wait for the update. [04:48] RAOF: as far as the ssh security vulnerability, I'm a little confused on the announcement: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2008-May/000705.html Is there anything I have to do besides upgrade the package? Will that automatically re-generate the keys that are generated upon installation of openssh? [04:48] RAOF: I understand that if I manually generated any key pairs, those need to be regenerated, but what about automatically generated ones? [04:49] Installing the package will automatically regenerate your server's host key. [04:49] Everything else is up to you. [04:49] JohnPhys, it automatically regenrates the keys, but it's better to do it manually again [04:50] techno_freak: Which keys? AIUI, it's just the host key it'll touch? [04:50] RAOF: Ok. I already removed my public ssh keys from the various servers I had them on. [04:50] RAOF, when it regenerates and again i test it with the dowkd.pl, it reports it to be weak [04:50] RAOF, i meant the user keys [04:51] techno_freak: The package won't regenerate user's ssh keys; it can't. [04:51] RAOF, ah ok [04:52] _Only_ the server's host key will be regenerated. Any keypairs you've got need manual intervention. [04:57] RAOF, techno_freak: Thanks for the clarification. Good thing I only have one set of user keys. [04:58] :) === dabaR__ is now known as dabaR [05:43] geser: yes i do i have already fixed my ssh key [06:48] how to report a general bug that ubuntu fails [06:48] how to see bug number 2? === doko_ is now known as doko [07:17] community needs reality check [07:17] some people from ubuntu/debian call "trolldot" and gentoo trolls [07:17] while ssh bug was introduced solely by debian team (afaik right?) [07:28] LimCore, what is your problem? [07:29] techno_freak: X crashes easly [07:29] let me check will it crash now as well after disabling compiz totally (uninstall) [07:29] LimCore, file a bug for us to help it get solved [07:34] sigh [07:34] techno_freak: ok. [07:34] LimCore: is there something you are doing to make it crash? [07:34] james_w: one sec. [07:35] yes, go to http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/08/04/30/1822237.shtml [07:35] click on "One post" [07:36] there is this really long pidgin page. scroll around up and down a bit [07:36] works on nvidia (glx-new) amd64 bit [07:36] "One comment" [07:36] is it your X crash or Firefox crash? neither for me [07:37] LimCore: Firefox 3? [07:38] james_w: yes [07:38] entire X crashes [07:38] LimCore, you mean it freezes up? [07:38] no, it crashes (resets) [07:38] Im back at login screen [07:39] Im a devel, I know difference crash vs freez =) [07:39] hmm, i saw a similar bug [07:43] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/230183 [07:43] Launchpad bug 230183 in firefox "crashes, and resets X (back to login screen)" [Undecided,New] [07:46] do you also often find important bugs in ubuntu? [08:06] hello [08:07] could anybody help me with understanding of acpi-handling in hardy? [08:08] can anyone comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/230180 please [08:08] Launchpad bug 230180 in ubuntu "ubuntu needs better QA since major components have big number of serious bugs" [Undecided,New] [08:09] LimCore: I'd comment that it's probably going to be marked invalid. [08:09] By the title, but I'll read it first. [08:10] LimCore: Basically, that's not very useful. [08:10] what other way to confince ubuntu to put more effor in qa? [08:11] I reported or confirmed number of such critical yet important bugs... I can link to them there [08:11] the point [08:12] is to look for systemic, strategic solution. [08:12] Any suggestions? [08:12] as I written there [08:12] Perhaps it would be nice to create teams dedicated solely to [08:12] 1. fixing in any way bugs in critical components. Workaround, older version, patch - no matter what but it really should Just Work [08:12] 2. and a team reviewing security related code, especially in main systems like openssh [08:13] We _already_ fix things when we can. [08:13] I know. therefore: "Since Ubuntu is backed up by real company, perhaps it would be possible to invest more into increasing such teams." [08:13] Basically, your suggestion boils down to "do what you have been doing, except better". [08:14] right [08:14] And "make Canonical hire more Ubuntu devs" is not a bug in Ubuntu :) [08:15] LimCore: find more people. do it. [08:16] LimCore: simple, no? [08:16] Hobbsee: no [08:16] Hobbsee: but I like RAOF's way [08:17] hire more devels [08:17] LimCore: then don't complain, unless you're either going to a) contribute useful effort to the project, or b) contribute money. [08:17] b) [08:17] go on, then. [08:17] :) [08:18] can someone uninvalid my bug report, when I post interesting idea for a solution there? [08:18] (I dont want to univalid my own bug) [08:18] is it actually a bug? [08:19] sounds like something for the idea storm, or a mailing list, or something. [08:19] any www gate to mailing list for this purpose? [08:20] I don't believe so, no. [08:21] www.hotmail.com / www.gmail.com .... [08:21] webmail.isp.com ... [09:12] LimCore, try brainstorm for it rather than launchpad ;) [09:12] techno_freak: url? [09:13] LimCore, http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ [09:13] nice [09:13] it doenst share login with lunchpad? [09:15] LimCore: nope, not yet [09:44] after bootup, VT-1 contains trash "kernel alive" "kernel direct mapping" text. anyone knows that bug? [09:44] how to report it, against what package? kernel? [09:49] * LimCore reported it in kernel, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/230204 [09:49] Launchpad bug 230204 in linux-source-2.6.22 "after bootup, VT-1 virtual terminal contains trash "kernel alive" text" [Undecided,New] === gnomefre1k is now known as gnomefreak [11:49] #205919 [11:51] hi, I hope I dont disturbe you to much, but I really need a workaround for this bug 205919. Do you have an idea? [11:51] Launchpad bug 205919 in brasero "Brasero and nautilus-cd-burner cannot burn 4GiB file to DVD" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205919 === _neversfelde is now known as neversfelde [13:09] bdmurray: can you please extend bugcontrol-membership of fta? [13:09] mail doesnt provide that option for him ... or he lost that mail [13:12] since ubuntu have so many epic failures, like kformula (unusable in 8.04) [13:13] how about providing easy way to install&use previous version of given program [13:13] or perhaps this should be done by QA teams... if given appl is too buggy, then put the downgraded version as officiall one (so on aptitute upgrade clients will install the older but usable version) [13:13] apt-get install foo=1.3.4 [13:14] * Hobbsee suggests reading before advocating solutions, and also dropping the "people are incompetent" mentality. [13:14] the point is to allow both versions at once on one box [13:14] foo-1.3.4 foo-2.0 and foo is a symlink to one of them [13:14] what about fix the issues which make the thing unusable rather? [13:15] seb128: that requires work, rather than just throwing other people's money at the problem, so LimCore doesn't want to do that. [13:15] seb128: that will take months at avarage [13:15] "throwing other people's money at the problem" ? [13:16] sure. you were talking about it earlier [13:16] there is no reason new versions should be that broken [13:16] "just get canonical to hire more developers and qa people" [13:16] Hobbsee: using MY money [13:16] downgrading is not a real solution [13:16] LimCore: oh good. [13:16] seb128: kformula. I used it for 10 seconds and found 2 ciricail bugs [13:17] seb128: can't export to SVG, and can't read own native format .kfo [13:17] Hobbsee: does the above entitle a bit "people are incompetent" mentality [13:17] seems to be a crappy software if they roll new version without testing if it can open things [13:18] seb128: I just want to export one simple mathml into svg :'( and it seems impossible in ubuntu... any other appl does that? other seem to export only to gif and pdf [13:18] interestingly, there don't appear to be any bugs for it on launchpad. [13:19] Hobbsee: that is indeed interesting, as ~10 bugs showed up while I was reporting mine as possible duplicates [13:19] nothing open, anyway [13:19] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/koffice?field.searchtext=kforumla&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_ [13:19] package= [13:19] yay, launchpad. [13:19] kformulas is part of koffice [13:19] kformula is part of koffice [13:20] yes, it is. [13:20] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/koffice/+bug/61189 [13:20] LimCore: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out === fdd-0 is now known as fdd [13:21] ah, drat, i can't spell. [13:21] actually, can someone please confirm my bug? [13:21] formula is simple: 1. start kformula 2. type in "2+2" 3. file-export test.svg [13:21] * LimCore 8.04 amd64 [13:22] my bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/koffice/+bug/230243 [13:22] Launchpad bug 230243 in koffice "export to svg fails" [Undecided,New] [13:22] 1.6.5....that's the kde3 branch, isn't it? [13:22] yes [13:23] I will test -kde4 in a moment [13:23] that's probably why it's not getting much attention from upstream. [13:23] it is a rare occasion that one application can be trivially installed in 2 versions at once. My idea was to allow that always easly, not just for kde3/4 transition [13:25] LimCore: there is no easy way to do that and that would be lot of extra work for few win [13:25] little win rather [13:26] O.O [13:26] * Hobbsee marks an upstream bug. without pain! [13:26] Hobbsee: related to kformula or other topic? [13:27] kformula-kde4 doesnt work as well.. they simple removed the export to SVG......... [13:27] LimCore: added an upstream bug to one of your kformula [13:27] \o/ [13:27] LimCore: interestingly, http://bugs.kde.org/buglist.cgi?short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc=&product=kformula&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&changedin=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=& [13:27] order=Importance&cmdtype=doit is the only stuff filed for kformula, that's open. [13:27] I'm a happy when without any reading and with people are incopetent mentallity I still manage to report meaningfull bugs. [13:28] ok seriously. Can I at all export mathML file to SVG using ubuntu? [13:29] Hobbsee: I dont understant what you ment by last statement [13:29] dunno. check google. [13:29] LimCore: that query is all the stuff in the kde bugtracker that's open, for kformula [13:30] http://tinyurl.com/6377xh [13:30] LimCore: try asking on #ubuntu, there is lot of softwares in universe and some people might use mathml there [13:31] seb128: I ask on serveral channels and searched in synaptic [13:31] it seems that no. [13:32] LimCore: no one does kde questions, btw. [13:32] you can try abiword, it seems abiword-plugins uses libgtkmathview [13:32] seb128: good idea [13:32] otherwise libgtkmathview-bin might have some tools to do that [13:32] LimCore: and it's not an area, so far, that canonical has wanted to invest in further, and doesn't seem like it will in future. [13:33] you are saying this in reference to what? to investing into say kde bugfixes? [13:33] your open question on kdebase, about compiz. [13:33] oh [13:33] oh right [13:33] yes. [13:34] effectively [13:34] I was thinking [13:34] you know vim model? [13:34] pay for vim to vote what to fix [13:34] (or develop) [13:35] i'm sure you could contract someone to work on kde for you, if you wished. [13:35] I can just donate myself, but without organized action its ineffective [13:35] exacly. one person with 100 usd -vs- 100000 ubuntu users * 10 usd [13:36] so, organise it. [13:36] what do you think about this idea [13:36] sounds good, if someone actually does it. [13:37] example: in 2012 5.000.000 linux users payed 5*5.000.000 usd annual license. 15% goes to KDE 5% to kernel 5% to compiz/xgl/etc [...] 0.004% to kformula etc [13:37] go ahead and organise it, then :) [13:37] ok [13:38] in the meantime, do you think its justified that I think that kformula ubuntu developer REALLY did a bad, bad job? [13:38] U are a devel right? can you set importance of this bug? [13:38] you assume that there is a kformula ubuntu developer which might not be the case [13:39] Latest release: 1:1.6.3-5ubuntu2 [13:39] Uploaded By: Jonathan Riddell [13:39] upstream did a bad job rolling a buggy new version [13:39] Maintainer:Maintainer: Ubuntu Core Developers Ubuntu Core Developers [13:39] * LimCore stupid mouse button [13:39] welcome to the kde world, koffice is not only kformula I guess [13:39] LimCore: doesn't mean he wrote it [13:39] LimCore: you don't get it. for the most part, the ubuntu developers don't work on the individual apps. [13:39] Hobbsee: I really do know that [13:39] seb128: and neither is kde koffice :) [13:39] updating the source package doesn't mean working on all the softwares is ships [13:39] LimCore: look under Help -> About KFormula for the dev names [13:40] * LimCore makes a bitter joke what happens when distro devels apply own patches for dsa (well ok, thats debian) [13:40] * Hobbsee makes a bitter joke about users who try to manage everything from their armchairs, and are very happy to throw blame around, seeing as they pay money, so zomg everyhting should be fixed for me, right now. [13:41] hmmm. i wonder if i can add a filter on listadmin. [13:41] Hobbsee: if in this case user is not entitled to complain, then when? [13:42] complaining is not really constructive [13:42] LimCore: sure, you can complain. whether people help you is an interesting question. especially if you're blaming everyone. [13:42] make sure to report issues that's constructive [13:42] but I see your point Hobbsee. and I dont know what can I realistically do to fix things.. I'm not rich to sponsor entire team to fix all buggs I find [13:42] or at least, people who's fault it isn't. [13:42] well, complaining that other people don't do that either will not fix those issues [13:43] report the issues you find and try to provide require details [13:43] I do all the time [13:43] and try writting a patch if you really want to contribute [13:43] Hi, what are the chanses that bug 147883 will get into hardy-proposed? [13:43] Launchpad bug 147883 in rhythmbox "Songs that have a space in their path are not imported automatically from watched music folders" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/147883 [13:43] then I wait... and wait, and.... [13:44] askand: I've a hardy update on my disk, I'm just waiting for upstream feedback for the patch I attached to bugzilla [13:44] 100 / 700 done! [13:44] seb128: nice, thanks [13:44] you are welcome [13:44] kformula-kde4 seem to not have at all SVG export. am I doing something wrong? perhaps I should report that too? [13:45] LimCore: do us all a favour, and report it on bugs.kde.org [13:46] the developers are there, who actually code the app [13:46] ok [13:54] ok I tried abiword [13:56] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bug/187034 [13:56] Launchpad bug 187034 in gtkmathview "AbiWord-2.4 crashes when inserting LaTeX" [Undecided,New] === dabaR_ is now known as dabaR [14:31] Boo [14:33] foo [14:33] bee [14:33] :) [15:35] bdmurray: ping [15:36] bdmurray: you may want to get https://launchpad.net/~sebastian-ro to do something more useful - looks like he's deciding to mark sync and merge bugs as wishlist. i'm sure you can find other bugs which are far more useful for him to look at, which no one else has seen. [15:37] people wasting their time is never a good idea :\ [15:39] He's probably doing it out of ignorance, I had no idea dev's used launchpad to track their work until the recent email exchange on the mailing list :/ [15:39] likely. [15:39] of course, the way to stop people being ignorant is to write documentation warning them what not to touch. [15:40] We'll, I [15:40] pck-chem: that's the thing. we've had 3 contributors in the past couple of weeks who have been repeatedly changing those types of bugs. yet out of all the bugs, they're only a small part. [15:41] pck-chem: i'm starting to think that they're going out and looking for them, because, as you rightly point out, most people don't know about them, and most people don't touch them [15:41] the chances of multiple people managing to find a whole chunk of bugs that they should be ignoring, which are only a small subset of the reported bugs is quite low. yet multiple people manage. [15:42] and there are still stacks of bugs that people aren't seeing. [15:42] Hobbsee: Well, I understand, but I'm not getting into it anymore than the emails have already. My personal opinion is that people shouldn't even bother with that kind of stuff when there are hundred of unpackaged/totally untriaged bugs but I can see both sides of the issue here. [15:42] exactly! [15:49] Hobbsee, out of curiosity: can you please give me a bug number of a bug this guy messed up [15:49] norsetto: ^ [15:49] launchpad isn't letting me see the exact ones. [15:50] all bugs he marked as wishlist have none of these dev-teams subscribed [15:51] [16:16] seems like somebody had the great idea to mass-create needs-packaging bugs for all lp hosted projects [15:51] [16:27] scottk: and there is already somebody busy filing them all as wishlist ... so much so for bug triaging [15:51] Hobbsee: you said sync/merge bugs, but this time the discussion started with needs-packaging, did he move on to others? [15:52] james_w: oh, even better. [15:52] that's the one category i didn't put in. [15:53] * Hobbsee can see all the importance-only changes, but not bugs that they were added to. [15:53] silly advanced search. [15:54] oh well. i'm sure that if he wants to create bugs for every piece of software on launchpad that's not in the archives, he can. [15:54] i'm sure there's more useful stuff for him to be doing, though. [15:54] as long as he closes them when the software packages get added to ubuntu, whether those be syncs, etc, or whatever. [15:54] so he's not adding to bug cruft, instead of triaging it. [15:55] Hobbsee: there are two people here, one is adding the bugs, the other is wishlisting them and adding the needs-packaging tag. [15:56] fun. [15:56] the first is wasting his time, effectively, and the second could find more productive things to do, if the first stopped. [15:58] thekorn: see bug 230234 for an example of what Hobbsee is talking about [15:58] Launchpad bug 230234 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] stompboxes" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230234 [15:59] and apparently none of the two checks for dupes, I can see at least two .... [16:00] norsetto: which means that any doc probably wouldn't have helped, as they clearly didn't read it anyway. [16:01] Hobbsee: ^^ agree :-( [16:01] in which case, does something get done about them, before they become more kmos-like? [16:02] this, I guess, is a question for bdmurray and ogasawara_. I do not have ways of reaching them (none that I have seen publishes email addresses). [16:03] but I have a bug Seb Rode subscribed to -- I can add a comment asking him to come here [16:06] SHIT [16:06] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-datecreated&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=New&field.assignee=&field.owner=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=on [16:06] sorry for the curse [16:06] check that out [16:07] well, the good part is only a few got set to wishlist ;-) [16:08] What are those bugs doing on my "These need triaged" search [16:08] pck-chem: close them, with "if you want to package them, feel free, else you're just creating needless cruft" [16:08] :P [16:09] Hobbsee: now a question for you -- please do not get me wrong: how can bug triagers decide what is a legitimate needs-packaging, and what is not? [16:09] hello [16:10] hggdh: they're all "legitimate" [16:10] qense: Hi [16:10] hggdh: however, creating bugs for them, when they're mostly synced from debian, etc, anyway, and when relatively get in thru ubuntu, just adds to ubuntu bug cruft, as no ubuntu people are actually looking to package them, and to close those bugs. [16:10] hggdh: so, is there any point in filing them, and/or keeping them open? [16:11] hggdh: particularly when there's no rationale for why we might want them there, etc. [16:11] hggdh: also, filing needs-packaging bugs for everything in the FOSS world will never scale. [16:11] (in terms of everything getting packaged) [16:12] hggdh: and as was said above, they're not even checking for dupes now - are they planning to coem back every release, and see if we've gotten the package from debian? [16:12] hggdh: the new packages from debian are on an autosync. [16:13] Would anyone seriously mind if I "Invalidated" them all because this is not what launchpad is for? [16:13] pck-chem: not at all. [16:13] pck-chem: if you do it by mail, you should be able to kill them all in one hit. [16:13] Hows that? [16:13] suggest that the guy follows and works on [16:14] pck-chem: help.launchpad.net/UsingMaloneInterface or something. [16:14] pck-chem: https://help.launchpad.net/BugTrackerEmailInterface [16:14] it changed names. [16:15] Just making sure we're on the same topic, you want me to close bugs like #230281 because they have no place in launchpad right? [16:15] 230281 [16:15] bug 230281 [16:15] Launchpad bug 230281 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] dynamite-game" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230281 [16:16] pck-chem: because there are other ways to track them, it's unfeasible to file that everything needs packaging, and that these bugs don't get automatically closed if someone in debian packages them, which is often the case, yes. [16:17] Thats what I was thinking, I just wanted to make sure not to massively piss someone off because I closed 30 of their "bugs" [16:17] oh, i'm sure you'll annoy him. [16:17] Hobbsee: I understand the rationale, and I agree with it -- but I am (was) a developer also [16:17] but, if he's going to proceed on a useless path like that, the only real option is that he gets frustrated :) [16:18] the more he does of it, the more he gets frustrated. [16:18] We'll like I said I think it needs to happen I just wanted to make sure someone would have my back if crap hit the fan. [16:18] hggdh: true. [16:18] pck-chem: yeah, we will. [16:18] but I think we need a a bit more of documenting on the "filling [needs-packaging] bugs [16:19] pck-chem: mind you, if he hasn't read bugsquad docs, he likely wouldn't be able to read or use enough thought to know how to complain :) [16:19] hggdh: true. MOTU has some on it. However, bugsquad and documentation..... [16:19] hggdh: you have to get them to agree to it at UDS, else they'll just revert it. [16:20] like they did with my edit. [16:20] Hobbsee: it is not only bugsquad, but the whole process that will have to be revisited. I think this is partially due to the success we had on Ubuntu [16:21] likely [16:21] hggdh: Agreed [16:21] there were discussions in sevilla about it. unfortunately, little fo it came out [16:21] I see this as a problem with a non-traditional use of launchpad, not a problem with bugsquad. [16:22] yet no one's actually proposed a better solution. [16:22] it would be nice if launchpad grows a workflow thing, and we can convert bugs to workflows, etc. [16:22] pck-chem: I agree... and perhaps this was why Hobbsee's edit was reverted [16:22] and I understand, which is why I said before I see both sides :) [16:22] OTOH, that wouldn't happen for at least a couple of years. [16:22] so finding a solution *now* is a good idea. [16:23] Hobbsee: 100% with you [16:23] Hobbsee: unfortunately I will not participate in UDS [16:23] hggdh: why? [16:24] Couldn't we just make "ubuntu-workflow" a "package" and just report all workflows against that instead of Ubuntu? [16:24] Hobbsee: (1) far from me; (2) business conflicts; (3) remember, I am an "incognito" ;-) [16:25] Its another non-traditional use, but it would keep devs and bugs from mixing in the Ubuntu package. [16:26] *project not package excuse me [16:26] pck-chem: LP *can* be used this way, all we need is rules and -- perhaps -- a new status (and corresponding finite-machine changes) [16:26] pck-chem: it's an interesting idea. [16:27] hggdb: True but canonical would have to dig into launchpad's internals do you think that could happen on a timely basis? [16:28] hggdh: pity. although i doubt that tehy'd insist on real names. [16:28] pck-chem: giving devs 2 places to check when doing anything. great. [16:28] pck-chem: (they check for existing bugs, too) [16:28] pck-chem: it can -- after all, that's the whole idea on having Lp in the first place [16:28] it's also an abuse of packages [16:29] Hobbsee: yes... given my experience on both sides of the fence, I think I could help [16:29] Hobbsee: Like I said <--lowley triager. Just throwing out ideas. [16:30] Hobbsee: it is indeed an abuse of packages, but the current dev usage is also an abuse of bugs ;-) we need to find a common ground [16:31] hggdh: Thanks, what I was attempting to express. [16:38] Hobbsee: in fact -- *where* is the next UDS? I cannot find it online... [16:41] hggdh: Prague [16:41] if you mean the one next week. [16:42]