[02:23] <yuriy> i added a new patch with quilt, but it doesn't show up in the debdiff
[02:24] <yuriy> I think it might be because there was no debian/patches before?
[02:24] <yuriy> I used quilt as it says in the packaging guide
[02:25] <yuriy> do I need to modify something else?
[04:41] <nixternal> hola
[04:43] <yuriy> heya nixternal
[04:44] <yuriy> nixternal: think you could help me with that ^^
[05:04]  * nixternal looks
[05:05] <nixternal> yuriy: I still do my patches the old school way..haven't used the quilt patching stuff, nor the cdbs patching stuff
[05:39] <yuriy> nixternal: well, is there something that needs to be added somewhere when creating the first patch?
[05:41] <nixternal> oh
[05:41] <nixternal> derr, ya, add the patch name to debian/patches/serial
[05:41] <nixternal> that didn't even cross my mind at first
[05:41] <DaSkreech> What did I miss today?
[05:42] <nixternal> the same thing I missed
[05:42] <nixternal> EVERYTHING!
[05:42] <DaSkreech> that's all?
[05:43] <DaSkreech> ah well same thing every day I guess
[05:46]  * nixternal beds - g'nite
[05:47] <DaSkreech> gday mate!
[05:47] <yuriy> nixternal: that's already done, quilt did it
[05:48] <yuriy> assuming you mean debian/patches/series
[05:48] <yuriy> nixternal: night
[07:57] <Serega> yaw... good morning!
[07:57] <DaSkreech> :-)
[07:58] <Serega> DaSkreech: hey!
[07:58] <DaSkreech> Hey! Serega
[07:58] <Serega> did anobody noticed some strange behavior of editboxes in konqi4?
[07:59] <Serega> *anybody
[08:02] <DaSkreech> Qt 4.4 bug
[08:02] <Nightrose> Serega: yea - i am working on a fixed package
[08:02] <Nightrose> if you have time to do it feel free to jump in
[08:02] <Serega> ah, thank you
[08:02] <Nightrose> as i will leave soon and not be back until sunday
[08:02] <Serega> just interesting
[08:03] <Nightrose> ;-)
[08:10] <DaSkreech> Ah damn it
[08:10] <DaSkreech>  I need to get amarok working
[08:11] <\sh> Nightrose, when do we meet in KA?
[08:17] <Nightrose> \sh: sorry - busy doing last minute stuff ;-)     meet for what?
[08:28] <\sh> Nightrose, openexpo... :) or just give me a ring when you are back from praque
[08:28] <Nightrose> ok
[08:34] <peer_> I made a copy of a directory with rsync to a mobile disk. diffed it - everything is fine. but with "Properties" on the two directories, I get different total file sizes. This should not be like that.
[08:35] <peer_> I think that if i put a file on the disk with x bytes, it should tell me that it has x bytes and retrieve x bytes. not y bytes, even if it takes y bytes on the disk.
[08:36] <peer_> this is with hardy, kde3 and latest updates. with dolphin and with konqueror.
[08:39] <peer_> I sometimes use the total file size serves as a rough estimation that the whole copy thing went well. but if a good copy still gives different total file size values, i need to investigate further even if everything was copied fine. it makes things more complicated.
[08:39] <\sh> peer_, same FS on both disks?
[08:40] <peer_> probably not...  but both are ext3.  but i'm not even sure how to check for details.
[08:41] <\sh> peer_, that's a problem...different inode sizes could give different fsizes...therefore estimation on the filesize (or the total sum of it) is not good...md5sums are better for this
[08:41] <peer_> it's for a backup. but with this kind of not being sure, it really doesn't make me trust the tools.
[08:41] <peer_> and i know that windows displays two values in this kind of situation: the total file size, and the total file size on disk. you always get a clear picture.
[08:42] <awen_> peer_: the files are written in blocks to the disk ... if the block-size is different the size on disk might also differ
[08:43] <peer_> the difference is if you look at the bytes of your data, or if the bytes from a purely technical perspective (which is less important since it's an artifact).
[08:44] <awen_> peer_: the difference is also which is the faster to calculate ... calculating actual sizes might take a serious longer amount of time
[08:44] <peer_> so the properties boxes add up the artifacted file sizes, and not the file sizes of the data i put there.
[08:44] <hads> So if you diff the files and they are the same then what are you worried about?
[08:45] <peer_> well, yes, it might take longer to calculate, but as it is, it makes me take MUCH more time to diff the files, since it SEEMS that something was wrong when I copied them.
[08:45] <awen_> peer_: if it is recursively it uses "estimate file space usage"
[08:46] <peer_> it's kind of unexpected und counter-intuitive behavior.
[08:46] <peer_> what is "estimate file space usage" ? and yes, it's a directory tree.
[08:47] <peer_> it calculates to the byte. if it's only an estimation, maybe it should not give all the digits.
[08:48] <awen_> peer_: look at the "du" command ... i'm almost certain that dolphin/konqueror uses mostly the same method
[08:48] <peer_> it also doesn't say "estimation" in the dialog box
[08:48] <peer_> yes, du also gives different values. :-/
[08:49] <awen_> peer_: "du -bcs" gives you the same as konqueror at least
[08:49] <peer_> so i have to write my own tool?
[08:50] <peer_> yes. so i get 16883741565 and 16883745661 bytes for the original and the backup, respectively. what would you conclude from that? something went wrong with the backup. and from this point on you loose time.
[08:51] <awen_> peer_: might exist another tool ... but i'm not sure
[08:51] <awen_> peer_: I would do an rsync from one to the other ... rsync uses checksums for all the data
[08:52] <peer_> yes, that's exactly what I did. but since I never uses rsync before, I wanted to verify it's operation. and got this :-)
[08:53] <hads> rsync works well.
[08:53] <awen_> peer_: then i can tell you that rsync actually outperforms the verification :)
[08:54] <peer_> how can I know the inode sizes etc.? maybe they are the same, so then there'd by another problem uncovered.
[08:54] <hads> Probably best discussed in a user channel anyway
[09:00] <peer_> I just checked with tune2fs, the "Inode size" is the same for both file systems. This makes it somewhat stranger. What else could be different?
[09:01] <peer_> Block size and fragment size also are identical.
[09:02] <peer_> So does this mean that the added file sizes depend on some random factor?
[09:03] <peer_> If so, then for what would it be useful anyway?
[09:03] <awen_> peer_: you could try asking in #ubuntu ... there is a little better chance to hit an expert in the "underlying layers"
[09:04] <peer_> well, i thought in -devel the people are expertier :-)
[09:06] <awen_> peer_: in kubuntu specific kubuntu stuff ... but the channel is mostly used for coordinating the making of kubuntu, and most of the people in here is also in the user channels
[09:07] <awen_> peer_: so in general you might as well ask in the user channel ... then even more people can learn from the findings :)
[09:07] <peer_> ok
[11:46] <mornfall> yuriy: I'll look at Adept during FOSScamp (and your patches, too)...
[15:32] <\sh> hmmm...any idea how to add a second panel in kde4 ? I wonder where the option in the panel submenu is ;)
[15:33] <Jucato> dunno if it's there in 4.0.4 already, but right-click on the desktop  -> Add Panel
[15:36] <\sh> Jucato, not in kde 4.0.3  (kubuntu hardy) ;
[15:36] <Jucato> oh.. must be a trunk thing :/
[15:37] <\sh> do we have somehow trunk packages for kde4 somewhere? ppa or whatever?
[15:37] <\sh> ah we have 4.0.4 in backports
[15:38] <nixternal> \sh: 4.1 alphas are going to be making their way into intrepid soon as well
[15:39] <nixternal> wth, jjesse uses trillian, eww
[15:39] <nixternal> wth, jjesse uses trillian, eww  <-- requote from after you quit :p
[15:40] <nixternal> I thought Trillian died many years ago
[15:41] <Jucato> nixternal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[15:41] <jjesse> nope trillian is still being used
[15:41] <nixternal> I have to go pick up a friend from the train station, and I don't feel like doing it...I should make him walk
[15:42] <jjesse> haha
[15:42] <\sh> nixternal, you are not ubuntu today ,-)
[15:42] <jjesse> call him lazy cause he isn't walking
[15:42] <nixternal> \sh: to early to be Ubuntu I guess :)
[15:43] <nixternal> actually, I am being Ubuntu, because if I don't drive to pick him up, I will not be polluting mother earth :)
[15:43] <\sh> nixternal, hell, I'm already far behind being "Ubuntu"...it's too hot...
[15:43] <Jucato> nixternal: nah, you're just being Foresight :)
[15:43] <nixternal> heh, I haven't done any Foresight stuff in a while now...been way to busy
[15:44] <nixternal> anywho, bbiaf...gonna go pick him up really quick
[15:44] <jjesse> nixternal: idid i hear correctly you have a job?
[16:11] <\sh> guys, I installed kde4.0.4 from backports..but every app is telling me "I'm kde 4.0.3"
[16:12] <\sh> this is not the truth, right?
[16:13] <ScottK> IIRC someone else commented on the same thing.
[16:14] <\sh> ScottK, well, konsole --version just results in qt4.4.0 and kde 4.0.3
[16:14] <ScottK> I'm pretty sure it's a bug and you have 4.0.4, but maybe someone else recalls for sure.
[16:16] <\sh> nixternal, should know
[16:25] <Hobbsee> when does 4.1 come out?
[16:27] <Jucato> end of July or early Aug
[16:29] <Hobbsee> rught
[16:29] <Hobbsee> er, right
[16:29] <Hobbsee> an intrepid candidate then
[16:32] <Jucato> yep. centipede candidate
[16:54] <ScottK> Riddell: Do we need a Kubuntu spec on proper Xrandr support?  It's something I think we are really missing just now.
[16:55] <DaSkReEcH> manchicken: ping
[16:55] <manchicken> pong
[16:56] <DaSkReEcH> manchicken: Saw the brainstorm on upadtes being visaully respresented?
[16:56] <DaSkReEcH> updates
[16:57] <manchicken> Naw
[16:57] <DaSkReEcH> Interesting
[16:57] <Jucato> wow manchicken!!!! :)
[16:57] <manchicken> Jucato: Wuddup?
[16:57] <Jucato> how are you?! LTNS
[16:58] <DaSkReEcH> The update notifier would visually show how severe an update is available and there would be an option for the list of updates to show how severe they are as well
[16:58] <Riddell> ScottK: I'm kindae hoping upstream will do that for us, but it's something to look at
[16:58] <manchicken> Seriously.
[16:58] <manchicken> I'm doing well.  Just working a lot, volunteering a lot, parenting, fun stuff.
[16:58] <Jucato> how's the babychicken? :)
[16:59] <ScottK> Riddell: I hope so too, but we need to keep track of it.  I see no sign Guidance is up for that, so we need to make sure we pick the right tool.  This will be particularly problematic if we keep a KDE3 desktop.
[16:59] <yuriy> DaSkReEcH: link? like colorizing based on priority or section?
[16:59] <DaSkReEcH> yuriy: Section ?
[16:59] <yuriy> security/backports/...
[17:00] <DaSkReEcH> Ah right. Something like that
[17:00] <DaSkReEcH>  the mockup had a very oxygen looking bug which gets coloured from green to red
[17:00] <DaSkReEcH> normal bumpd version updates get no bug at all
[17:01] <DaSkReEcH> so if it's slight security risk you get green bug beside the update if it's critical and urget you get a erd bug
[17:01] <ScottK> I'd suggest that would confuse the average user who doesn't care and the non-average user already knows enough to figure it out.
[17:01] <DaSkReEcH> the highest colour bug becomes the icon on systray showing there are updates
[17:01] <manchicken> Jucato: Big.
[17:01] <yuriy> what does the urgency= thing in the changelog do?
[17:01] <Jucato> manchicken: oooh :)
[17:01] <ScottK> We really don't want users picking and choosing updates.
[17:01] <ScottK> yuriy: Nothing in Ubuntu.
[17:01] <DaSkReEcH> ScottK: probably off by default then?
[17:02] <DaSkReEcH> seele: ping
[17:02] <ScottK> yuriy: In Debian it's how fast it can transition from Unstable to Testing.
[17:02] <ScottK> DaSkReEcH: I was thinking neat idea but probably not worth the trouble to implement.
[17:03] <yuriy> DaSkReEcH: i don't think there's anyway to get that kind of information
[17:03] <yuriy> beyond just security update or not
[17:03] <ScottK> DaSkReEcH: Also potentially actively dangerous since it promotes the idea that users should decide what updates to take.
[17:03] <DaSkReEcH> ScottK: To be honest I didn't care too much about the bug beside individual updates
[17:03] <DaSkReEcH>  I did like the idea of the systray indicating that this is a crtical update
[17:03] <yuriy> but colorizing all security updates the same doesn't sound like a bad idea
[17:04] <DaSkReEcH> ScottK: users shouldn't decode what updates to take? :)
[17:04] <ScottK> As a rule we don't put out non-important updates.
[17:04] <DaSkReEcH> I guess if you don't have backports on
[17:04] <yuriy> ScottK: backports
[17:05] <ScottK> yuriy: I think a special pinning solution for backports is useful.  Only take updates from backports if you've explicitly installed that package from backports.
[17:05] <ScottK> But generally I don't think picking/choosing is useful end user behaviour
[17:05] <smarter> but security updates are automatically installed by unattended-upgrades ayway
[17:05] <DaSkReEcH> Lord knows that's how Windows works
[17:06] <DaSkReEcH> drives me crazy
[17:06] <DaSkReEcH> of course they enforce that by never telling you waht any updates do
[17:06] <ScottK> We want users to have the package configuration we've tested.  If they update some stuff and not others, then who knows what happens.
[17:07] <yuriy> anyways, can somebody help me with this, i'm working on bug 214577
[17:07] <jdavies> yuriy: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-dpkgchangelog explains the urgency= field
[17:08] <yuriy> there was no debian/patches previously and I added it and created a new patch with quilt as it says in the packaging guide
[17:08] <yuriy> but the patch doesn't show up in the debdiff
[17:08] <ScottK> The current tools are sufficient for experts.  Non-experts have no proper basis to make such decisions anyway.
[17:34] <seele> DaSkReEcH: pong
[17:40] <DaSkReEcH> seele: didn't see the conversation on highlighting security bugs for the Update notifier?
[17:43] <DaSkReEcH> seele: Just wanted to know if it would be a good idea for the user to see the severity of the update
[17:47] <seele> DaSkReEcH: i dunno.. do we have stats on if users tend to install all updates right away or only some updates or never update?  if they are always updating anything then it wouldnt matter
[17:47] <seele> DaSkReEcH: if they are picking and choosing updates or not updating all the time, then it might matter
[17:49] <DaSkReEcH> seele: hmm I guess popcon doesn't cover that :)
[17:49] <DaSkReEcH> Might track the downloads from the servers so those stats should be around somewhere
[17:51] <Tm_M> hi kids
[17:52] <apachelogger> hey mom
[17:52]  * ryanakca waves to Tm_M 
[17:53] <ScottK> seele: My concern would be if we start to show them a distinction between updates they will be encouraged to pick and choose when in reality virtually none of them would know enough to make an intelligent choice.  It'd be some kind of attractive nuisance.
[17:54] <seele> ScottK: yeah.. and if people are alredy installing all or none of the updates, adding some kind of severity wont necessarily make it better and it might change the behavior of people already installing all the updates
[17:55] <seele> those who don't update probably wont care or even notice.  they might have adept notifier turned off
[17:55] <ScottK> I think those that know enough to decide are probably using apt anyway.
[17:56] <seele> was there a bug report or something? i missed the beginning of the discussion
[17:56] <ScottK> It's an idea on brainstorm.
[17:57] <seele> ah
[17:57] <ScottK> I don't see a link in my scrollback.
[17:57] <DaSkReEcH> I'll find it
[17:58] <smarter> I think we shouldn't care, security updates are automatically installed by unattended-upgrades anyway
[17:58] <DaSkReEcH> but as I was saying the description seemed to me to be for the notifier where they were more interested in actaul individual ones being marked which I wasn't so hot on
[18:00] <DaSkReEcH> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/8492/
[18:00] <DaSkReEcH> Probably
[18:37] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: ping
[18:38] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: pong
[18:41] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: [20:08:12] <jpwhiting|workpc> Artemis_Fowl: hello
[18:41] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: [20:08:43] <jpwhiting|workpc> did seele send you a note?
[18:41] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: [20:09:53] <jpwhiting|workpc> about adept-like lists
[18:41] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: [20:10:13] <Artemis_Fowl> jpwhiting|workpc: no
[18:41] <Artemis_Fowl> [20:10:35] <jpwhiting|workpc> ah, I spoke with her the other day about your brainstorming, and she had some suggestions iirc
 I thought she was going to send you an e-mail
[18:42] <Artemis_Fowl> is this old news?
[18:42] <Artemis_Fowl> didn't we turn to the Preview pane?
[18:42] <seele> yeah, it's old news
[18:42] <Artemis_Fowl> ok
[18:42] <Artemis_Fowl> one min to show you new screenshots then
[18:44] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1324937_zjrtj/KGRUBEditor45.png
[18:45] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: the default needs to be a radio button, not checkbox
[18:45] <Artemis_Fowl> I centered the separator's text and used a different Default  system
[18:46] <seele> and can you take the default selection off of the menu item?
[18:46] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: I used checkboxes so that the user is able to deselect default
[18:46] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: with radio buttons there would always be a default
[18:47] <seele> can't use checkboxes
[18:48] <Artemis_Fowl> with radio buttons how could someone deselect an entry from default?
[18:48] <seele> if a default isn't selected, do it just wait for the use to make a selection or is the first in the list the default?
[18:50] <Artemis_Fowl> it is the default
[18:50] <seele> so there is a default regardless?  then we don't need a "no default" option
[18:51] <seele> by default it will be at the first entry, then the user can change it to whatever they want
[18:51] <seele> if they click the system settings reset or generate a new grub config file, it'll just get reset to the first one again
[18:51] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: no, a default is not mandatory
[18:51] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: it is in my configuration that the first one is set as default
[18:51] <seele> so if there is no default, grub just sits at the menu?
[18:51] <Artemis_Fowl> yes
[18:52] <Artemis_Fowl> no
[18:52] <Artemis_Fowl> if there is no timeout, then this is when grub just sits
[18:53] <seele> can you have a timeout without a default or do you have to have a default to set a timeout?
[18:54] <Artemis_Fowl> nothing is mandatory. if you have a timeout but don't have a default then the first entry is booted by default
[18:54] <Artemis_Fowl> let me check this out
[18:54] <Artemis_Fowl> I don't remember exactly
[18:55] <seele> ok
[18:55] <Artemis_Fowl> Quote: "Set a timeout, in sec seconds, before automatically booting the default entry (normally the first entry defined)."
[18:56] <Artemis_Fowl> it is not 100% clear
[18:56] <Artemis_Fowl> what this means
[18:56] <Artemis_Fowl> but I suppose it means what I told you
[18:56] <seele> so the first entry is the default default?
[18:56] <seele> and there is always a default, it just doesnt' always have to be defined?
[18:57] <Artemis_Fowl> if a default is not defined, then the first entry is assumed to be default
[18:57] <seele> ok.. then i dont see why we cant use the radio button
[18:57] <seele> because there is always a default
[18:58] <Artemis_Fowl> hmm...it could confuse users
[18:59] <seele> why?
[18:59] <seele> i think the unmarked default is the confusing part
[18:59] <Artemis_Fowl> if they know they have no default and see that the first entry is marked as default, they would thing it's a malfunction
[18:59] <seele> but they do have a default.. you just said the first entry is the default if no default is selected
[18:59] <Artemis_Fowl> GRUB is confusing in general
[18:59] <Artemis_Fowl> yes but they don't know it :)
[19:00] <seele> yes!  which is the confusing part!
[19:00] <Artemis_Fowl> lol
[19:00] <seele> marking the default andhaving them explicitly select it will make it simpler
[19:00] <Artemis_Fowl> anyway, most users won't even notice it
[19:00] <Artemis_Fowl> advanced users edit the file manually
[19:01] <seele> exactly
[19:01] <seele> the other editors probably had the same reasoning, because they didnt implement all possible grub functionality either
[19:02] <Artemis_Fowl> btw I removed fallback
[19:02] <Artemis_Fowl> it's no use to the target group
[19:02] <Artemis_Fowl> even advanced users don't use it
[19:02] <Artemis_Fowl> that's fine, right?
[19:02] <seele> yep, that's fine
[19:03] <Artemis_Fowl> ok then
[19:03] <Artemis_Fowl> screenshot #2
[19:03] <Artemis_Fowl> http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1324938_awru1/KGRUBEditor46.png
[19:03] <Artemis_Fowl> simply shows the preview
[19:03] <Artemis_Fowl> any comments?
[19:03] <seele> can the background be white?
[19:04] <seele> like a text box so the text looks selectable?
[19:04] <seele> right now as the system background, it doesnt look like you could select the text.  just like you cant hgihlight and select a label that is in a window
[19:05] <seele> but the purpose of doing it this way was so that people could select and copy text, correct?  versus the tooltip or whatever
[19:05] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: this is how Qt paints read only text editors
[19:05] <seele> oh
[19:05] <seele> hmm
[19:05] <Artemis_Fowl> and it could be just y theme...
[19:05] <Artemis_Fowl> my*
[19:05] <seele> lemme ping a troll really quick
[19:07] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: the text is selectable in the disabled mode, correct?
[19:08] <Artemis_Fowl> yes
[19:08] <ScottK> I find it very interesting how subcultures have unique jargon.  I understood "lemme ping a troll", but not so many would.
[19:09] <seele> lol, yeah.. i guess i meant a trolltech troll and not an irc troll :)
[19:09] <jussi01> hehe, I totally missed that one
[19:11] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: are you using QTextEdit?
[19:11] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: yes
[19:11] <Artemis_Fowl> uhm
[19:11] <Artemis_Fowl> maybe KTextEdit
[19:11] <Artemis_Fowl> let me check
[19:11] <DaSkReEcH> Yeah someone came into #kde looking for a troll and I was highly confused for a moment
[19:12] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: it's a KTextEdit
[19:12] <uga> Riddell: I found today that the live CD from kubuntu using kde4 doesn't seem to use proxies even if manually configured
[19:12] <seele> 14:10 < TZander> seele: what you want is to use a QTextEdit widget.
[19:12] <seele> 14:11 < TZander> seele: the class has a set of 'textInteractionFlags'. One of them is to allow editing of text.
[19:12] <seele> 14:11 < TZander> seele: a separate one is selecting.
[19:12] <seele> 14:12 < TZander> seele: just using a QTextEdit will give him a white background, unless he did something weird (like using a broken QStyle)
[19:13] <uga> Riddell: the proxy was working fine (I manually telnetted), but konqueror(4) seemed to be unable to use it
[19:13] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: i dont know if that helps or not
[19:14] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: it does
[19:14] <seele> ok cool
[19:14]  * Artemis_Fowl is checking out
[19:19] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: in the meantime take a look at the last screenshot: http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1324936_1a4lk/KGRUBEditor47.png
[19:19] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: it illustrates the Quick/Full Editor
[19:19] <Artemis_Fowl> popup*
[19:20] <seele> do you have the different editors implemented yet?  i'm still not sure what the differences would be and if there need to be two
[19:20] <Artemis_Fowl> not yet
[19:21] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: the Maps+Password+Kernel attributes cannot be quick-edited
[19:21] <seele> what are the types of things that are?
[19:22] <Artemis_Fowl> strings. but it's kind of complex
[19:23] <seele> are they things that users normally need to edit quickly?  and when they edit those thigns, do they typically not need to edit the maps, passwords, or kernel?
[19:23] <seele> if the non-quick-edits and quick-edits are linked in tasks, then the quick edit mode doesnt make sense because the user will have to go to full edit mode to edit the rest of the options anyway
[19:25] <Artemis_Fowl> in the Quick Edit the most common attrbutes should be listed such as title, root etc
[19:26] <Artemis_Fowl> kernel and the other stuff are edited from time to time but quickly would make no sense
[19:26] <seele> hmm
[19:27] <seele> well.. how about this
[19:27] <seele> just do it however you want and we'll get it out the door
[19:27] <seele> then we have some people use it and figure out if it's working out or not
[19:27] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: fine by me
[19:27] <seele> we have very little data on how normal users might use this thing because the existing grub UIs suck
[19:27] <Artemis_Fowl> and someone is spamming my inbox....
[19:28] <Artemis_Fowl> totally irrelevant but annoying
[19:28] <seele> with the way the button is implemented.. it wont hurt if we change the UIs or workflow a little as long as we still use an edit button
[19:29] <Artemis_Fowl> so for now all I have to do is change the checkboxes to radio buttons?
[19:30] <Artemis_Fowl> the white background is no issue
[19:30] <Artemis_Fowl> it seems that QTextEdit uses always a white background
[19:30] <ryanakca> Has anybody started merging kdetoys, or can I attempt to? *doesn't see a bug on LP*
[19:31] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: yes, and if possible, no radio button in the "menu" entry
[19:31] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: not possible
[19:32] <Artemis_Fowl> imagine what would happen if the user has such an entry and has this entry as default
[19:32] <Artemis_Fowl> weird but possible
[19:34] <seele> hmm.. so you can reformat the text, but you can't take the radio button off the list item?
[19:35] <seele> selecting that as default wont break anything will it?
[19:35] <Artemis_Fowl> hmm
[19:35] <Artemis_Fowl> let me think about it
[19:37] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: ok. I could hide the checkbox but consider this:
[19:38] <Artemis_Fowl> if this entry is marked as default since there will be no radio button, the user won't know that this is default
[19:38] <seele> so you mean if they mark it as default by hand in the config file but then open it in the UI?
[19:38] <ryanakca> Am I safe to assume that all Kubuntu changes to KDE Toys are stored in debian/patches ?
[19:38] <Artemis_Fowl> yes
[19:39] <seele> ok.. only advanced users will do something like that (and for what reason i dont know) so i wouldnt worry about it until we get someone with a reason why they would do it
[19:39] <Artemis_Fowl> as I said it's ackward but possible. I have to consider all possibilities
[19:39] <Artemis_Fowl> ok
[20:47] <mhb> Riddell: I apologize, but I cannot make it to the FossCamp.
[20:48] <mhb> Riddell: I have so much learning to do during the weekend... I have 2 exams the following week, and I cant learn during UDS, so I have to skip FOSSCamp.
[20:48] <mhb> hope you dont mind
[21:00] <seele> mhb: are your exams next week or is it a study week?
[21:00] <seele> oh, i misread your message
[21:01] <seele> does this mean there will be an end of exams happy hour? :)
[21:12] <mhb> seele: next week.
[21:13] <mhb> seele: tuesday and wednesday.
[21:13] <mhb> which is also bad, but what can I do?
[21:13] <mhb> tuesday late afternoon, that's okay.
[21:26] <yuriy> seele: what do you think of bug 226430?
[21:30] <seele> yuriy: yeah.. the entire logging out process is a problem.  they chose that word because leave is more ambiguous than logout, so the other actions could fit in there together
[21:30] <seele> but at the same time, you confirm you want to get out three times: choose leave, select logout, and then again logout from the plasma-looking menu
[21:32] <yuriy> seele: but you wouldn't agree that the choice of word "leave" is a bug?
[21:32] <yuriy> i don't really see the problem with it. or at least can't think of a better way to put it
[21:32] <Tm_M> we need 'are you sure?' menu too :p
[21:32] <yuriy> we have one :P
[21:32] <seele> yuriy: yeah, and i can't imagine it translates well.  but that's why they chose that word instead of logout
[21:33] <seele> because logout, switch user, shut down, sleept, etc. can all fit under it semantically
[21:33] <yuriy> seele: sorry, yeah it is a bug or yeah it isn't?
[21:33] <Tm_M> menu/dialog
[21:34] <seele> yes it is but i doubt it will get fixed upstream anytime soon
[21:34] <seele> 1) because there is more than just the label that is a problem with the work flow and 2) i dont know of a better word and i dont think the powers to be will accept a regression to Log Out
[21:35] <yuriy> seele: could you post a commment to that effect since you know about what's going on with that? and change to won't fix
[21:35] <seele> hmm.. ok..
[21:39] <Tm_M> hmm, I wonder if we can patch it to not ask things twice
[21:40] <seele> that was talked about back when 4.0 was released.  i dont remember why it was decided to stay the same
[21:41] <seele> i think the argument is that there is an option to turn off the confirmation, but it wasn't made default
[21:41] <Tm_M> also, can that menu be named as session?
[21:42] <Tm_M> maybe too technical
[21:42] <stdin> when the Application Launcher Menu is in use the plasma logout menu is needed
[21:43] <Tm_M> yes, that should be 'sensed'
[21:43] <Tm_M> perhaps
[21:47] <Tm_M> can that plasma menu be launched by some command? if application launcher menu just calls it directly
[21:47] <Tm_M> or so
[21:50] <seele> yuriy: i dont have a WONTFIX status option, should i use INVALID instead?
[21:52] <Tm_M> any sense in that idea?
[21:58] <DaSkReEcH> Makes sense to me
[21:59] <yuriy> seele: hmm i guess you have to be in bug control. i think won't fix would be better, i'll change the status
[22:00] <seele> ok
[22:43] <awen_> yuriy: while you are at it, can you mark bug 228568 as wishlist
[22:43] <santiago-ve> guys... big question here... i want to become in a ubuntu-member... but more like a kubuntu-member... is the process the same?~ or do i need other steps (others that wiki.kubuntu.com/Membership
[22:47] <awen_> santiago-ve: welcome :)
[22:48]  * awen_ is not a member, so isn't really sure of the process
[22:48] <yuriy> phew, done with bug backlog
[22:49] <awen_> yuriy: cool :) ... and thanks
[22:50] <yuriy> santiago-ve: same as on that page, except you need to come to a kubuntu meeting instead of a community council meeting, and you need to have something specific to kubuntu
[22:51] <yuriy> s/something/have done stuff/
[22:52] <santiago-ve> yuriy, besides some advocacy~ and having the whole company where i work using Kubuntu... nothing else >.<
[23:44] <Riddell> mhb: no problem, we don't want kubuntu as a reason for people failing exams
[23:45] <ryanakca> Riddell: I forget, are you a DD?
[23:46] <Riddell> ryanakca: nope
[23:47] <ryanakca> thanks anyways :)
[23:47] <DaSkReEcH> D&D ?
[23:48]  * ryanakca is trying to get a fixed version of kmplayer into Debian, but the people in #debian-qt-kde seem to be more preoccupied trying to figure out how to put a SUSE like logo on the titlebar of a window :)