[00:02] <asac> lool: there?
[00:02] <asac> i will upload language-pack-gnome-zh_8.04+20080415ubuntu1.804ume_source.changes to mobile ppa ... which includes the midbrowser translations for zh for now
[07:27] <dholbach> good morning
[08:29] <kennyyu> hi there, just wish to know if there is any proposed plan for adapting mobile-firefox on a really small-screen device e.g. a screen of 320-pixel width?
[08:40] <z1o> kennyyu: I think ubuntu mobile is using a firefox derivative
[08:41] <z1o> kennyyu: but I didnt have that close a look at it
[08:52] <kennyyu> z1o: nvm :)
[08:54] <z1o> kennyyu: got it figured out?
[08:55] <kennyyu> z1o: not yet... well, wait i'm rebooting my PC
[08:56] <z1o> o/
[10:11] <lool> asac: Build is out since two days; next delivery Friday
[10:11] <lool> hopefully
[11:45] <davmor2> Right I'm beginning a test on todays image.  Yes I'm still using xephyr in mic but I know a lot of the differences to look out for now :)
[11:46] <davmor2> are there any bugs that should be fixed now that you want to keep an eye out for?
[12:09] <lool> EPARSE
[13:03] <lool> persia: Around?
[13:03] <lool> persia: If you are, we have the week phone call
[13:03] <persia> OK.  I thought it was cancelled this week.
[13:03] <lool> persia: Nah, it's run by me, which is worse
[13:23] <lool> persia: thanks
[14:16] <davmor2> Has anyone had any joy getting gnash to work on UME?
[14:48] <Laibsch> Hi
[14:48] <Laibsch> How do ubuntu mobile and handhelds mojo compare?
[14:49] <Laibsch> Not trying to compare state-of-affairs, but more the perspective and potential
[14:49] <suihkulokki> Laibsch: mojo is regular ubuntu for arm cpu's, ubuntu mobile is special ubuntu flavour for intel cpu's
[14:49] <Laibsch> Second question, the FAQ claims that Zaurus are not supported because of the need for proprietary binaries.  I just added a note that this is not true.
[14:50] <Laibsch> suihkulokki: My impression was that you also try to adapt better the UI experience
[14:50] <Laibsch> Am I mistaken?
[14:50] <suihkulokki> Laibsch: that's what the "special flavour" basicly means
[14:51] <Laibsch> Yes, but you say for intel
[14:51] <Laibsch> mojo targets arm
[14:51] <Laibsch> Question is if they also will likely have that special flavour
[14:51] <suihkulokki> there is no UME for arm (afaik) (atleast yet)
[14:51] <Laibsch> suihkulokki: Sorry, I did not read carefully enough
[14:52] <Laibsch> OK
[14:52] <suihkulokki> who knows, why wait, just do it :)
[14:52] <Laibsch> Zaurus is arm
[14:52] <Laibsch> suihkulokki: I'd love to
[14:52] <Laibsch> But I don't have an intel-based handheld
[14:52] <Laibsch> And I don't want to buy one
[14:52] <Laibsch> I'd be interested if the Zaurus can be supported though
[14:53] <Laibsch> I have some background from openembedded.org, but I am not a regular developper by profession
[14:53] <suihkulokki> it should not be hard to adapt Ubuntu Mobile UI etc changes to handhelds mojo (or debian/armel)
[14:53] <Laibsch> that is the route you suggest as more promising?
[14:54] <Laibsch> Are those UI changes in available in normal ubuntu as well?  Have you pushed that back?
[14:54] <suihkulokki> disclaimer, I'm only lurking here, I'm actually working on debian/armel
[14:54] <Laibsch> Are you plannign to
[14:55] <Laibsch> ?
[14:55] <suihkulokki> Laibsch: afaik (again I'm not authority here..) most changes go back to normal ubuntu (under lpia arch), but ubuntu and ubuntu mobile timetables are different
[15:00] <Laibsch> suihkulokki: Is UME cross-compiled or natively?
[16:15] <dijenerate> hi all
[16:15] <dijenerate> anyone awake in here?
[16:16] <agoliveira> dijenerate: Yes, it's a bit past noon for me :)
[16:16] <dijenerate> ok, finally a living soul :)
[16:17] <dijenerate> have you used the UME build on anything other than the Samsung or another official test unit?
[16:17] <GrueMaster> I'm just working on waking up.
[16:17] <dijenerate> I'm trying to setup a Vaio UX with UME
[16:18] <dijenerate> I'm using last monday's build for the Samsung Q1U but ran into some problems
[16:18] <dijenerate> I only just realize how stripped the kernel is for UME
[16:19] <dijenerate> not even the usbserial module is present
[16:20] <dijenerate> anyone here have a clue what I'm talking about?
[16:20] <GrueMaster> That's odd.  I can understand stripping unnecessary things like scsi raid, but usb devices should be supported.
[16:21] <GrueMaster> I haven't tested the latest Q1 images, though.  My main focus is on the melow platform integration.
[16:21] <dijenerate> well usb mass storage is and most common periphs are 
[16:21] <dijenerate> but there is no usbserial which the vaio needs for its WWAN to work in linux
[16:22] <dijenerate> I also could not find the evtouch driver that's needed for the touchscreen to work
[16:22] <davmor2> agoliveira: Under multimedia do you have gnash swf viewer?  If so does it work?
[16:22] <GrueMaster> The evtouch should be there, but it may only be available to the menlow platform.
[16:23] <dijenerate> considering this is supposed to be a 'touch' friendly version of ubuntu, I find that ironic
[16:23] <GrueMaster> you might for grins try a menlow image, but you will need to change teh graphics driver in xorg.conf.
[16:23] <agoliveira> davmor2: No, I don't. I suppose it's another of those weird Xephyr icons?
[16:23] <dijenerate> and I think I was doing something wrong with the udev config
[16:24] <GrueMaster> Currently, this image is under development, and focused on two specific pieces of hardware.  Future revisions may widen the scope of the project, but you need to start somewhere.
[16:25] <davmor2> agoliveira: That might explain why it isn't working properly too then :)
[16:25] <dijenerate> was trying to map the touchscreen and WWAN to specific IDs and lost pointer support after startup
[16:25] <agoliveira> davmor2: I would say it's a fair assumption ;)
[16:25] <dijenerate> so what is the eta for the first stable release of UME?
[16:25] <GrueMaster> Not sure, but it should be soon.  The products that it is designed for are launching soon.
[16:26] <dijenerate> because it seems like there is really a lot still to be done considering it was just supposed to be an optimized  branch off standard ubuntu desktop
[16:26] <dijenerate> ...and are all atom based I take it
[16:26] <dijenerate> atom is so much crud
[16:27] <GrueMaster> Right now, my understanding is that it is a base image for OEMs to work from.
[16:27] <dijenerate> I just saw the fujitsu announce an atom based follow up to the U810
[16:27] <GrueMaster> Yes, atom is the target currently.
[16:28] <dijenerate> basically, it's an upgrade from a system powered by a remote control's CPU to one powered by a calculator's CPU
[16:28] <GrueMaster> Actually, you'd be surprised at the atom's capabilities.
[16:28] <dijenerate> I truely would like to be
[16:29] <dijenerate> I'm coming from the world of Core Solo on the Vaio UX, anything I replace it with has to outperform it
[16:29] <dijenerate> can Atom do that?
[16:29] <GrueMaster> It's hard to visualize by looking at the specs, but it really is something to see.  Wish I could give more detail.
[16:30] <dijenerate> rough comparison, how does a full atom system under linux compare to a Vaio UX or Q1 Utra Premium?
[16:30] <GrueMaster> I think the core solo is probably going to give you more performance, but then the package size is radically different.  So is the power usage.
[16:31] <dijenerate> even though processors are faster and more powerful, we don't often use their full potential on mobile devices, so my question should really be, will I notice the difference?
[16:31] <GrueMaster> I only have the Q1, and I can say atom performs quite well side by side.  Of course, my atom test units are 1/2 to 1/3 the size and weight.
[16:31] <dijenerate> between say the Sharp D4 or Fujitsu U2010 and the Q1UP or Vaio UX
[16:31] <dijenerate> ok
[16:32] <dijenerate> but how is battery life because A110 did not live up to promise
[16:33] <dijenerate> is this Q1 as in the Pentium M no-keyboard system or A110 (stealey) Q1Utra?
[16:33] <GrueMaster> Not sure.  I don't have the means to test that.  I've been told (and some videos on youtube confirm) that it is ~4 hours.
[16:34] <GrueMaster> I have both Q1 versions.  The original Ultra, and the "Vista" models.
[16:34] <GrueMaster> I think they both have the same core, just more memory, keyboard, hdd, etc for the Vista model.
[16:34] <dijenerate> so the Atom performs on par with the A110 at 800MHz?
[16:35] <dijenerate> that's bad... that's really bad, because the A110 in my experience is weak
[16:35] <GrueMaster> yes, but in a far smaller package.
[16:35] <dijenerate> yeah, but a bigger calculator vs a smaller calculator is still a calculator trying to decode divx video
[16:35] <dijenerate> lol
[16:35] <GrueMaster> It really depends on what you are doing.  If you are running RC5 or Seti, then you probably won't like it.
[16:36] <GrueMaster> Video wise it is much better.  There is hardware decoding.
[16:36] <dijenerate> usually I have my machine on all day, doing everything I use without shutting down... the Vaio is poor on battery life so that annoys me hence I'm looking for a replacement
[16:37] <GrueMaster> I looked at the vaio.  It's hugh compared with the units I have.  
[16:38] <dijenerate> in ubuntu, I have compiz fusion running, thunderbird open, Xchat, amsn, pidgin, kbasket, firefox, opera, skype, gammu, system monitors and 9 desktops on gnome
[16:38] <GrueMaster> That's more of a desktop usage model vs what these are designed for.
[16:38] <dijenerate> the vaio performs adequately with this just has bad battery life and a tad small screen for its rez
[16:38] <dijenerate> I know, but that's what I really want, my desktop in my pocket
[16:39] <dijenerate> with me all day
[16:39] <GrueMaster> I don't have any insights on what systems will look like with Atom, but I know some of them are for a market looking for a smaller platform.
[16:39] <dijenerate> if I wanted smartphone power, I'd buy a nokia internet tablet and run frisky
[16:39] <dijenerate> I'm all for smaller and longer battery but not at the cost of performance
[16:40] <dijenerate> so that's where my issue with them comes from
[16:40] <GrueMaster> Like I said, there is a wide market for this product.  I only see the smallest units.
[16:41] <dijenerate> it's pointless to me to build a machine that is barely faster than a 'arm' based system like the Zaurus or nokia Internet tablet but still needs the ventilation of a regular x86
[16:41] <dijenerate> and therefore can't be kept on in a pocket
[16:41] <GrueMaster> I have heard that some OEMs will have units similar in size to yours running at full throttle.  The smaller units run slower due to heat and smaller battery size.
[16:41] <dijenerate> my view may be a bit different from the mass market view of course
[16:42] <GrueMaster> heh.  Everyone has a different view that marketing.
[16:42] <GrueMaster> s/that/than
[16:42] <dijenerate> yeah, but 1.8GHz atom benched next to a 1.8GHz celeron still got creamed
[16:42] <GrueMaster> Again, what was the usage model?
[16:42] <dijenerate> portable device, subnotebook
[16:42] <dijenerate> class
[16:43] <GrueMaster> I mean application usage?
[16:43] <dijenerate> netbook class so design for mobile web in a ulcpc
[16:43] <GrueMaster> If you are looking to run Doom3, your sol.  If you want to view office documents or browse the web, you're good.
[16:44] <dijenerate> I get that, but apart from the size issues which don't even count if you consider that a celeron can also be made at a smaller process, what's the point of new processor that is slower than one they made 5 years ago
[16:45] <dijenerate> seems like regression to me and if it's just for office docs and web, why not use a TI OMAP or Xscale again like the Nokia tablets or the sharp zaurus
[16:45] <GrueMaster> Again, by what benchmark?  I haven't actually seen any reviews or comparisons.
[16:45] <dijenerate> again regression
[16:46] <GrueMaster> not necessarily.  XScale or OMAP can't run x86 applications.
[16:46] <GrueMaster> Try loading Vista on a Nokia 800 series.
[16:46] <GrueMaster> Or flash for that matter.
[16:46] <dijenerate> these are 1.6GHz CPUs compared http://www.umpcportal.com/postimages/AtomCPUperformancefigures_EB03/atomperf.jpg
[16:46] <lool> Well there's flash, no?
[16:47] <dijenerate> but why will I need vista if I can run my web and office apps on a faster to respond more stable OS
[16:48] <dijenerate> does the OS matter as much as it's ability to run the apps you need
[16:48] <dijenerate> the point of Vista is to make MS money, the point of the OS for the consumer today is to run the apps
[16:48] <suihkulokki> I doubt running vista is a argument that will shift attitudes positively in the audience of this channel =)
[16:49] <GrueMaster> True.  One thing your image doesn't show is power consumption or heat dissipation. 
[16:49] <dijenerate> if the apps run on linux on less and for less, then what's the point of vista and by extension the point of atom?
[16:50] <GrueMaster> Let me ask this.  What is the cpu load playing mpeg2/mpeg4/vc1 video on the different systems?
[16:50] <dijenerate> well the Via is a low power consumer and unless intel has drastically changed it's core design they are still consuming more power than everyone else as they have always been
[16:50] <lool> dijenerate: The power consumptions of Intel CPUs are supposed to decrease further in the future; the platforms are also bigger irons than the ARM platforms right now
[16:51] <lool> But apart of that I agree that ARM is a good option :)
[16:51] <dijenerate> dedicated registers for popular media will always lower cpu load values, oldest CPU design trick in the book
[16:52] <dijenerate> however, what's the load when editing a 12 workbook excel document the office just emailed to you on your trip?
[16:52] <GrueMaster> About 40%
[16:52] <GrueMaster> Tried and tested
[16:52] <GrueMaster> Well, using OpenOffice.  
[16:53] <dijenerate> real world performance is what will tell it apart vs lab test and synthetic benching
[16:55] <GrueMaster> Back to your earlier question of "why would someone want this", I have to point to a quote from the quake-aa developers (who made an ascii art video driver for Quake):  "If you have to ask, it isn't for you".
[16:55] <dijenerate> it boils down to this, if a poulsbo/silverthorne 1.6GHz machine that is all that much smaller (and still only 1/3 smaller than a UX) can do what the UX does at 1.2GHz overall real-world performance, as in I'm not annoyed by the lag on my everyday tasks, then I'll sing Atom's praises, but until then, I think I'll wait until the dual core (code named: molecule)
[16:56] <GrueMaster> But can you put your Vaio in your shirt pocket?
[16:56] <dijenerate> yeah I can
[16:56] <dijenerate> but will I want to when it has a belt case? lol
[16:56] <suihkulokki> ..if you don't want to look like a dork
[16:57] <dijenerate> what the atom may be able to do over the vaio if it lives up to promise is give me more than 1:20hr battery life in ubuntu
[16:57] <dijenerate> suihkulokki: touche... lol
[16:58] <GrueMaster> Hey, looking like a dork is every pastafarian's FSM given right.
[16:58] <dijenerate> but it still isn't acceptable (for me) if it is unable to do what the vaio currently does with ease
[16:58] <HappyCamp> lool, is the SSH thing a big concern for the ubuntu-mobile/moblin stuff?
[16:59] <lool> IRC meeting in one minute
[16:59] <lool> HappyCamp: I don't understand your question
[16:59] <GrueMaster> HappyCamp:  Sort of.  I use it for debugging and live monitoring.
[16:59] <HappyCamp> The SSH key issue with debian derived systems.
[16:59] <lool> HappyCamp: It's a concern for any usage of the openssl random generator over the last 19 months
[16:59] <lool> HappyCamp: But it's fixed in hardy and daily UME builds if that's your question
[17:00] <lool> #startmeeting
[17:00] <HappyCamp> I was more wondering for our use case in particular.  Do we want to try to notify people or the notification out there is enough.
[17:00] <lool> Welcome all
[17:00] <HappyCamp> k
[17:00] <lool> HappyCamp: Feel free to add the SSH questions in today's agenda
[17:00] <lool> Let me start by reviewing action items from last week
[17:01] <lool> [topic] Don ﻿Johnson to email agoliveira a list with Intel's atendees for UDS.
[17:01] <dijenerate> I chose the larger Q1UP over the U810 for performance and battery life issues
[17:01] <lool> Hmm no mootbot
[17:01] <Don_Johnson> I sent the list to agoliveria
[17:01] <lool> dijenerate: We're in a meeting; please defer your discussion to after the meeting; thanks!
[17:01] <dijenerate> sorry.. np
[17:01] <lool> Don_Johnson: Hmm was this recently?
[17:01] <lool> Don_Johnson: He told me an hour ago that he didn't receive it
[17:01] <StevenK> lool: I'm here, but still wrangling e-mail
[17:02] <Don_Johnson> I thougth I sent it last week right after the meeting.
[17:02] <Don_Johnson> Let me check, maybe I sent it to David and got the cc wrong.
[17:03] <Don_Johnson> OK, I'll recreate the emaila and send it out.
[17:03] <lool> Don_Johnson: Perhaps it's easiest if you just copy-paste it right now? :)
[17:04] <Don_Johnson> As soon as I find it again. I'll do past it in.
[17:04] <lool> Don_Johnson: So who are the lucky fellows who get to get to visit Prague and sit in some 8 hours flights? ;)
[17:04] <lool> Don_Johnson: Ok; let's defer to the end of the meeting
[17:04] <lool> [topic] UME Logo draft
[17:05] <lool> I received the first drafts for the UME logo http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/ume-logo.pdf
[17:05] <lool> [link] http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/ume-logo.pdf
[17:05] <lool> I'd be pleased if you could send me suggestions for these logos
[17:05] <lool> Design comments, ideas, suggestions, everything is welcome
[17:06] <lool> I'm also interested in votes on these logos, tell me which you absolutely hate, and which you love
[17:06] <lool> Please send me an email to one of my email addresses
[17:06] <lool> When we get some consensus and pick a logo, we'll work on the colors, fonts, etc.
[17:06] <StevenK> lool: And yet, with no MootBot, you still do the [] :-)
[17:07] <lool> StevenK: Yeah, it helps in the log ;)
[17:07] <lool> Ok; if nobody has any question on the logos I'll move on
[17:07] <GrueMaster> Colors are kind of bland.
[17:08] <lool> GrueMaster: This can be easily fixed; the high level design / concept should be ironed out first, then the colors can be debated ad nauseam
[17:08] <GrueMaster> k
[17:08] <lool> [topic] Impact fo SSH/SSL vulnerability on UME
[17:08] <lool> HappyCamp: Could you restate your question?
[17:08] <lool> HappyCamp: My understanding is that your question was "how does the SSL/SSH vulnerability affect UME?", correct?
[17:09] <lool> So the vulnerability has been plugged in all released and development Ubuntu repositories: intrepid, hardy, gutsy, feisty
[17:09] <lool> The issue was that the random number generator wasn't random (enough)
[17:10] <lool> This means that any SSH session with DSA keys started from a vulnerable host during the last 18 months would expose this DSA key, and that any key (whatever type) generated in the last 18 months from a vulnerable system should be considered vulnerable
[17:10] <GrueMaster> you should see how many hits my home system has taken in the last couple of days trying to exploit this.
[17:10] <lool> You're encouraged to change all your SSH keys to RSA if you generated or used it on a recent Ubuntu system
[17:11] <lool> I personally updated my SSH key from DSA to RSA and uploaded the new one to Launchpad, Ubuntu systems and moblin.org for example
[17:11] <lool> Also, new packages to allow detection and automatic or manual blacklisting of the compromised keys have been crafted
[17:12] <lool> The new packages are openssh-, openssl-, etc. -blacklist
[17:12] <lool> Any question on this topic?
[17:13] <lool> Concerning UME, we're not released yet but a simple upgrade or a full reinstallation will get you a non-vulnerable system
[17:13] <bspencer> if I don't change my keys, what is the risk?
[17:13] <bspencer> what is "vulnerable" as you described above?
[17:13] <ToddBrandt> bspencer: someone could log in as you
[17:14] <bspencer> and fix my bugs?
[17:14] <lool> bspencer: if your key was recently created (less than 18 months ago), it's easily guessable by brute force; some people could try logging in on systems where you authorized this key with all possible keus
[17:14] <ToddBrandt> and fix your bugs yes
[17:14] <bspencer> ok.
[17:14] <lool> Your key is also vulnerable id it's DSA, older than 18 months, but was in use on vulnerable client systems
[17:14] <lool> s/id/if
[17:15] <bspencer> who created the mobuntu logos?
[17:15] <lool> Basically, using a DSA private key on a system where the random generator is unsafe will expose your key
[17:15] <lool> bspencer: "brilliant"
[17:15] <lool> bspencer: A company working for Canonical
[17:15] <bspencer> k
[17:15] <lool> Katie Moody worked on them to be precise
[17:16] <bspencer> I should send feedback via email or now?
[17:16] <lool> Via email is preferred
[17:16] <bspencer> k
[17:16] <lool> I should have setup a polling site, but I didn't
[17:16] <lool> But I still want to compile the impressions together as it allows a general overview of the plusses and minuses of each logo
[17:17] <lool> Ok; I'm personally done talking about the SSL/SSH vulnerability, but I'm happy to give further clarifications
[17:17] <lool> Any other topic to bring up?
[17:17] <lool> Don_Johnson: That brings us back to you
[17:17] <GrueMaster> Next beta/rc release schedule?
[17:18] <Don_Johnson> OK here is the list: Yong Y Wang : Server and Desktop roadmap
[17:18] <Don_Johnson> John Cherry : MID planning
[17:18] <Don_Johnson> Marcel Holtmann : OTC
[17:18] <Don_Johnson> Adam Le
[17:18] <lool> GrueMaster: Last beta was a couple of days ago; should have been a RC, but too many critical bugs; next RC is currently scheduled for Friday /I think/; but that's a tentative date, I don't know whether StevenK is in good conditions to work on the build this week
[17:18] <lool> Don_Johnson: You might want paste.ubuntu.com if your list is long
[17:19] <Don_Johnson> Unfortunately it is not long.
[17:19] <StevenK> I have spent 32 hours travelling, and I lost my bags. Not today.
[17:19] <GrueMaster> Reason I asked is that I really didn't see any core changes.  Namely video drivers and helix support.
[17:19] <lool> So these four persons?
[17:19] <GrueMaster> stevenk:  sorry to hear that.
[17:19] <Don_Johnson> yes, those four, are it.
[17:19] <lool> StevenK: We're Thursday though :)
[17:20] <lool> GrueMaster: Video drivers have been updated yesterday night and are being tested
[17:20] <StevenK> GrueMaster: I don't think either of them released a new version in between beta4 and beta5?
[17:20] <StevenK> If they did, no one told me.
[17:20] <lool> StevenK: The kernel graphics drivers did change, amitk merged them yesterday night
[17:20] <GrueMaster> No, but beta 5 didn't have the latest video drivers, which have been available for over a week.
[17:20] <lool> StevenK: They are being tested by pmcgowan and amitk
[17:20] <GrueMaster> That's why I asked.
[17:20] <StevenK> The video drivers certainly didn't change from beta9 in the PPA when I rolled beta5
[17:21] <GrueMaster> Should be build 2.0.0.32L.0014
[17:21] <StevenK> GrueMaster: Could I get e-mailed when they get updated?
[17:21] <lool> StevenK: I think it's the release version (PV), so you shouldn't get many updates anymore :)
[17:21] <GrueMaster> I'm not sure who posts them on arms, but I can see.
[17:22] <StevenK> Right.
[17:22] <StevenK> I'll hit up David when he arrives.
[17:22] <lool> StevenK: i forwarded you davidm's email on this release
[17:22] <Don_Johnson> Generally I notify David and PatM when something is posted to ARMS. 
[17:23] <lool> StevenK: Ask davidm to notify you when he gets Don_Johnson's notification
[17:23] <lool> Don_Johnson: And as a safety, I'm happy if you tell me
[17:23] <Don_Johnson> OK, I'll expend the list
[17:23] <StevenK> lool: I am working through the 600 e-mail I got while flying here
[17:23] <lool> Don_Johnson: In fact, you could directly mail all of us by mailing either the public list or the Canonical private list mobile@lists.canonical.com
[17:23] <StevenK> Work e-mail, of which there is 120, is next
[17:23] <GrueMaster> On that note, Don and I would both be happy if someone tells us when there is a release.
[17:23] <lool> Don_Johnson: (you might get an email that your post is moderated)
[17:23] <GrueMaster> :)
[17:24] <StevenK> Hm. I thought David did that.
[17:24] <GrueMaster> I haven't seen anything (unless he's selling viagra).
[17:24] <Don_Johnson> Generally David does notify us.  But the Beta5 slipped by, 
[17:25] <StevenK> I'm suspecting due to UDS looming
[17:25] <Don_Johnson> David did tell me on the phone that there would be a Beta5, but not when it was posted.  I agree due to UDS prep.
[17:27] <StevenK> Don_Johnson: Happy yo bring it up with him when I see him, if you wish.
[17:27] <StevenK> s/yo/to/
[17:27] <StevenK> (I hate .cz -> .au lag)
[17:28] <Don_Johnson> Not a problem. I happended to check about an hour after it was posted. So no harm.
[17:28] <StevenK> Excellent sense of timing there, Don_Johnson :-)
[17:29] <StevenK> "I sense a disturbance in the Force ... Ahh yes, Beta5 is out." :-P
[17:29] <Don_Johnson> ARMS notification: currently Steve Magoun, David Mandala, Pat M, and Loic have ARMS accounts and should recieve notices.  Although it is hard to figure out which ones to care about.
[17:29] <GrueMaster> He has one of those lark thingys.
[17:29] <lool> Don_Johnson: I didn't receive a notice, but I didn't subscribe to any either
[17:29] <Don_Johnson> Should I add StevenK to list of people with ARMS accounts?
[17:29] <lool> Don_Johnson: I guess I have to subscribe
[17:30] <StevenK> Don_Johnson: I'd rather not have an ARMS account, and I can't update the 3D drivers until the 2D ones are anyway
[17:30] <Don_Johnson> Still hard to figure out which ARMS notices to care about. I'll send out UME specific notices and include you and StevenK.
[17:30] <GrueMaster> It shoudl be posted as one big package.
[17:31] <StevenK> GrueMaster: Sure, but we don't use the 2D drivers as included in that package.
[17:32] <Don_Johnson> stevenk: Ok I'll leave ARMS accounts as they are now.
[17:32] <GrueMaster> The package should have the 2D source.  It should be able to drop into the current build environment.
[17:32] <lool> Ok, we're discussing many things at the same time here
[17:33] <lool> Don_Johnson: I thought you were sending the notifications to email addresses; if you can't do that, I think we should tell davidm to make sure our internal mailing list or list of people gets the notification when he does
[17:33] <StevenK> GrueMaster: I just play with 3D. Other people work on 2D.
[17:33] <GrueMaster> k
[17:34] <Don_Johnson> lool, I will start maintaining a list of people at Canonical to pass notices along to.
[17:34] <lool> Don_Johnson: That's nice of you; the public or Canonical mailing-lists are IMO good choices
[17:35] <lool> It will simplify both your and our maintenance of this list I guess
[17:35] <lool> Ok; any other business for today?
[17:35] <Don_Johnson> OK, I'll look at using them
[17:35] <lool> Closing the meeting then
[17:36] <lool> I wish attendees a safe trip to UDS
[17:36] <lool> #endmeeting
[17:36]  * GrueMaster wishes he could attend.
[17:38] <StevenK> GrueMaster: The person you should have begged just left? :-D
[17:38] <GrueMaster> I know where he sits.  :D
[17:38] <StevenK> Haha
[17:39] <GrueMaster> But it isn't up to him.  We both report to the same manager.  Problem is, I'm a contract employee, and Intel won't fund any travel for us contractor types.
[17:39] <GrueMaster> Let alone pay our wages.
[17:39] <StevenK> Ahh
[17:39] <GrueMaster> Sucks.
[17:40] <GrueMaster> All the work of a full time employee, with none of the benefits (or politics).
[17:40] <GrueMaster> But the pay is good.
[17:41] <GrueMaster> StevenK:  is there any issues with the 3D packaging I should look into?
[17:51] <StevenK> GrueMaster: At this point, I don't think so. 
[17:51] <GrueMaster> k
[17:56] <pmcgowan> StevenK, is Bryce working on packaging the graphics pieces do you know?
[17:58] <StevenK> pmcgowan: I've been travelling for most of the last two days, so I'm fairly out of the loop.
[17:58] <pmcgowan> StevenK, ok, I will ping him directly
[18:08] <HappyCamp> GrueMaster, so are you sure that the people were trying exploit the SSH key issue on your system?
[18:08] <HappyCamp> Just curious on when people started trying to exploit the issue
[18:09] <HappyCamp> I have always seen lots of failures of login attempts via SSH in the past.
[18:15] <GrueMaster> sorry, had to step out for a bit.
[18:17] <GrueMaster> ﻿HappyCamp:  Yes, I'm pretty sure.  I have logs showing 100's of ssh failure attempts from the same IP addresses.  Each originating IP address has at least 60 hits, usually in a 2 minute span.
[18:18] <HappyCamp> GrueMaster, I wonder how you tell if it is a key attempt versus a password attempt
[18:18] <HappyCamp> I get lots of ssh attempts in the past.
[18:47] <dijenerate> hi all I'm back
[18:47] <dijenerate> is the meeting still going on?
[18:48] <dijenerate> ok, I'm guessing not
[18:59] <lool> GrueMaster: Around?
[19:00] <lool> GrueMaster: The graphics drivers don't seem to have changed between the last two releases
[19:01] <GrueMaster> sorry, I stepped away for a second.
[19:02] <GrueMaster> lool:  if you are referring to the ume beta releases, then you are correct.
[19:02] <lool> GrueMaster: I mean between teh ARM files
[19:03] <GrueMaster> I personally don't have access to arms, but there should be a 2.0.0.32L.0014 release up there.
[19:05] <GrueMaster> If you don't see it let me know and I'll ping someone.
[19:35] <lool> GrueMaster: I clarified; the problem is that we were comparing the lat two 0014 releases, but not the 0010 and the 0014 releases
[19:35] <GrueMaster> Ah.
[19:36] <GrueMaster> Well, 0014 needs to find it's way into the build.  Is there anything I can do to fix the packages to make this happen?  I've already tested 0014 on Beta4, and with the latest helix, it looks great.
[19:37] <GrueMaster> It seems to fix other issues as well (S3/S4).
[20:16] <lool> GrueMaster: Do you know why the xf86-video-psb master wasn't updated since March?
[20:18] <lool> GrueMaster: I think only the GASTON branch was updated
[20:23] <lool> GrueMaster: Is libva required for the graphics drivers beta 09?  Or only for helix stuff?
[20:44] <lool> GrueMaster: Going afk now, but interested in your comments
[20:47] <lool> persia: Could you look at seeding update-manager?  The seed is at ~ubuntu-mobile/ubuntu-seeds/mobile.hardy; the meta package in the ppa should be pulling from there
[20:47] <lool> persia: This should pull u-m in the dailies
[20:47] <lool> persia: TIA! :)
[20:47] <lool> persia: bug #230821 BTW
[21:48] <GrueMaster> lool:  sorry, I was at lunch.
[21:51] <GrueMaster> lool:  AFAIK, there wasn't any changes to the xf86-video-psb source.  I believe most of the recent changes were for video playback (psb-kmd, libva, psb-video), but I could be wrong.  Libva is required for the helix cip codecs, and the latest cip codecs are compiled against 0014 bundle.
[21:53] <GrueMaster> My understanding of how the modules inter-operate is that for basic video, you need only the open source 2D modules.  For 3D and video hardware playback, you need the closed source binary packages and firmware.
[22:08] <ToddBrandt> tonyespy: you on?
[22:11] <tonyespy> ToddBrandt: yes
[22:12] <ToddBrandt> tonyespy: I have a potential fix for https://bugs.launchpad.net/moblin-applets/+bug/225465
[22:12] <ToddBrandt> should I email you the .deb?
[22:12] <ToddBrandt> it's like 1MB I think
[22:12] <tonyespy>  sure...
[22:18] <ToddBrandt> I'm rebuilding the .deb, one moment
[22:20] <ToddBrandt> I basically just added a check inside the gdk window filter (the one inside moblin-settings-daemon that handles all the keyboard shortcuts). If it's already processing a previously recognized shortcut and it recieves another, it just removes it from the gdk queue and returns, i.e. it just gets ignored instead of getting processed right on top of the current one
[22:21] <ToddBrandt> This situation should never actually occur, mind you, since the gdk filter function is supposed to be serial, but I have no idea what changes they did in the hardy version of xorg&gdk
[22:25] <ToddBrandt> tonyespy: let's try irc 
[22:25] <ToddBrandt> tonyespy: can you get a file through your IRC client?
[22:25] <tonyespy> don't know...  it looks like it might work?
[22:26] <tonyespy> doesn't look like it's working...
[22:26] <ToddBrandt> yea it's sorta sitting there
[22:26] <tonyespy> mail's probably best
[22:26] <ToddBrandt> yea
[22:26] <ToddBrandt> ok, 1 moment
[22:34] <ToddBrandt> tonyespy: ok, I just sent out the .deb, if that doesn't fix it I'll create a version with some debug info to maybe help narrow down the issue.
[22:37] <tonyespy> ToddBrandt: thanks!
[23:32] <simoncm_training> Is the release still slated for shortly after 8.04?