| kwwii | moin moin | 09:15 |
|---|---|---|
| DanaG | Huh? | 09:15 |
| DanaG | Random: /me is a unicode addict: | 09:15 |
| DanaG | Running with ✂. And throwing ✈ at stuff. I ♥ Unicode! | 09:15 |
| kwwii | :-) | 09:15 |
| DanaG | Oh, what fun can be had in gucharmap. | 09:16 |
| DanaG | And in the scim-tables-additional "LATEX" table. | 09:16 |
| === elkbuntu is now known as elky | ||
| nothlit`core | kwwii: cory's looking for you btw | 14:15 |
| thebishop | hello | 17:36 |
| thebishop | to what extent is Ubuntu reaching out to the DeviantArt and/or Flickr communities? | 17:36 |
| troy_s | thebishop: This isn't about DeviantArt nor Flickr. | 17:44 |
| thebishop | its about ubuntu artwork, right? | 17:46 |
| thebishop | i was talking to some graphic designers over the weekend and they are all OSX/Photoshop users. with so many FOSS projects in need of more attractive artwork, it seems those social networks could help a lot | 17:48 |
| troy_s | thebishop: No, it is not. | 18:29 |
| troy_s | thebishop: The issue of which you speak is execution. | 18:29 |
| troy_s | thebishop: Execution is a far ways along the line. | 18:29 |
| troy_s | thebishop: Before execution, one must have the proper environment to permit execution to happen. | 18:30 |
| thebishop | i'm not sure i follow | 18:31 |
| troy_s | thebishop: And that is part of the problem. | 18:31 |
| troy_s | thebishop: 1) "in need of more attractive artwork" More attractive -- define? | 18:32 |
| troy_s | 2) Even if you arrive at a satisfactory answer, the following question would be "Is it desired?" | 18:32 |
| thebishop | you don't think there's a perception that Ubuntu and/or linux in general is still fairly bland to look at? Compiz notwithstanding | 18:33 |
| thebishop | i show it to my friends and they thing the effects are cool, but widgets, window borders and icons need improvement | 18:34 |
| troy_s | thebishop: That is a rather grossly oversimplified statement. | 18:35 |
| thebishop | "improvement" | 18:35 |
| thebishop | ? | 18:35 |
| troy_s | thebishop: Improvement. Again, it isn't that I disagree with you, but you seem to think that it is a simple thing to 1) achieve 2) implement given a particular culture. | 18:35 |
| troy_s | thebishop: It is a vacuous term. | 18:35 |
| thebishop | i never said that | 18:35 |
| thebishop | more what i'm getting at is making Ubuntu/gnu/linux an attractive platform for artists the way it is currently a very attractive platform for coders | 18:36 |
| troy_s | thebishop: Ok... _now_ you are speaking more clearly | 18:36 |
| troy_s | thebishop: But you also said "Ubuntu", which would be Ubuntu 'main' correct? | 18:37 |
| thebishop | which may also have the upstream benefit of more icon sets, themes, UI ideas, etc being available to everyone | 18:37 |
| troy_s | thebishop: That is more dealt with by the 'is it desired' question. ;) Remember, the bulk of the developers and such are quite happy with Tango. | 18:38 |
| thebishop | and Tango doesn't go away if other options are available | 18:38 |
| thebishop | i certainly don't think Tango is bad | 18:39 |
| troy_s | thebishop: Sure. And to that end there is nothing stopping you from developing an icon set. | 18:39 |
| thebishop | i'm a coder, not an graphic designer | 18:39 |
| troy_s | thebishop: That probably makes things more difficult. | 18:40 |
| troy_s | thebishop: So I guess we have "improvement" that would be directed at someone. | 18:40 |
| thebishop | right, which brings us back to the original question | 18:41 |
| troy_s | thebishop: a UI idea that is directed at someone | 18:41 |
| thebishop | is there any outreach to the big social networks for artwork | 18:41 |
| troy_s | thebishop: and an icon set that is both directed at someone _and_ that someone else will need to complete. | 18:41 |
| troy_s | thebishop: You still are missing the point unfortunately. 1) There is nothing stopping you from creating something / reaching out / etc. | 18:42 |
| troy_s | thebishop: 2) There is the question of audience. Who is this for? Will it work? As well as other complications. | 18:42 |
| troy_s | thebishop: 3) The question of whether or not the people who own and run the projects desire it. | 18:42 |
| troy_s | thebishop: See a few problems / complications yet? | 18:43 |
| thebishop | so long as the projects in question are theme-able and most of them are, it doesn't really matter if the maintainers/owners/contributers want it | 18:43 |
| thebishop | and this is Free Software we're talking about | 18:43 |
| thebishop | so "own" is a somewhat relative concept | 18:44 |
| troy_s | thebishop: Sure... and that gets you back to my other statement. "Go forth and create" | 18:45 |
| thebishop | i think some organization would be more effective than an individual | 18:45 |
| troy_s | thebishop: Then establish it. | 18:46 |
| troy_s | thebishop: I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that the simplicity that you wish to see is simply non existent. | 18:46 |
| thebishop | some already exist (Ubuntu art, Canonical, etc) | 18:46 |
| thebishop | it seems like a question of marketing more than a technical issue | 18:46 |
| thebishop | which has been a traditional weakness of Free Software | 18:47 |
| thebishop | which is partly why such organizations are developed | 18:47 |
| troy_s | thebishop: And yet ubuntu grows at a tremendous pace regardless. | 18:49 |
| thebishop | and that's great | 18:50 |
| thebishop | but who is it attracting? | 18:50 |
| troy_s | thebishop: Now you are starting to sound like me... ;) | 18:55 |
| thebishop | ? | 18:56 |
| DanaG | I use the Tangerine icons, myself. | 18:56 |
| troy_s | thebishop: I couldn't answer your question for a start. | 18:56 |
| troy_s | thebishop: I'd like to help you out, but thus far, I don't have anything concrete to help with. | 18:57 |
| thebishop | well, there isn't an concrete answer | 18:57 |
| thebishop | and i find coders generally don't want to talk about nontechnical questions | 18:57 |
| troy_s | thebishop: Ok. | 18:58 |
| thebishop | but i think if you look at Free Software, generally coders use it, so as a result, its generally secure, well-designed, robust featureset, etc | 18:59 |
| thebishop | if more artists, musicians, directors, used it, we'd probably find those areas of the experience improve as well | 19:00 |
| troy_s | <thebishop> if more artists, musicians, directors, used it, we'd probably find those areas of the experience improve as well | 19:20 |
| troy_s | Amen. | 19:20 |
| troy_s | thebishop: Better still, you gain the allegiance of some powerful and influential subcultures. | 19:21 |
| thebishop | troy_s, so what do you think would convince creative-types to move from OSX to Ubuntu? | 19:21 |
| troy_s | thebishop: Well they have... remember that about 99.9% of your top Hollywood box office hits were created on a Free Software platforms. | 19:21 |
| troy_s | thebishop: The problem is that the tools are in-house (as they are with the video game industry as well) | 19:22 |
| troy_s | thebishop: So it is two pronged. 1) tools. 2) posture. | 19:22 |
| thebishop | what sort of posture? | 19:22 |
| troy_s | thebishop: How open to the culture you appear -- which is what I believe you are, in the end, getting at. | 19:22 |
| thebishop | that's certainly part of it | 19:23 |
| troy_s | thebishop: Apple did / does a tremendous job of talking to that audience demographic. | 19:23 |
| thebishop | but i think we have to be more proactive | 19:23 |
| thebishop | right | 19:23 |
| troy_s | thebishop: Being proactive is a good thing. Again though, what you speak of is hideously complicated. Ubuntu _also_ desperately needs developers and developer support. | 19:23 |
| troy_s | thebishop: One could probably suggest that a 'remix' would work to this end -- in this case it would probably be Ubuntu Studio. | 19:24 |
| troy_s | thebishop: It all starts and ends with audience. | 19:25 |
| troy_s | thebishop: Right now, I believe we are going through the growing pains of learning that. I have harped on and ranted about it for god knows how long. | 19:26 |
| troy_s | thebishop: Unfortunately, it is something that people of the brain smarts that we have in our culture (extremely high) can't be told. They must learn it for themselves. | 19:26 |
| thebishop | the problem i see with ubuntu studio is that its designed to be overly utilitarian. It makes total sense running Ardour as barebones as possible, but i think people want to work in a an environment that is visually appealing | 19:27 |
| thebishop | ubuntu studio is the kind of thing you'd use in a production environment, not on your personal machine | 19:28 |
| troy_s | thebishop: A rather big "I think" in there. I honestly don't know. | 19:28 |
| troy_s | Greetings thorwil | 19:28 |
| thorwil | hi troy_s | 19:28 |
| thorwil | heh, my personal machine is my production environment :) | 19:29 |
| thebishop | heh | 19:29 |
| thebishop | gnome-terminal is my production environment | 19:29 |
| thebishop | i don't mean to put responsibility or blame on anyone, but i do think we're getting the point where technical competency isn't the bottleneck | 19:30 |
| thebishop | there are problem non-coders who would be interested in facilitating these kinds of "postures" | 19:31 |
| thebishop | :s/problem/probably | 19:31 |
| thebishop | but for instance, mentioning what new features people want in Gimp can be a volatile conversation | 19:32 |
| === nand_ is now known as nand | ||
| troy_s | thebishop: And that gets back to culture. | 19:33 |
| troy_s | thebishop: It is one thing going from a culture where everyone is the culmination of scratching one's own itches to being responsive to the itches of others. | 19:33 |
| thebishop | definitely | 19:34 |
| thebishop | maybe there's a way to give nontechnical people tools to scratch their own itches, and also contribute back to the community | 19:35 |
| thebishop | things like Screenlets for example | 19:36 |
| Mariux | hi there | 21:46 |
| troy_s | Hello Mariux | 21:46 |
| Mariux | hi troy_s | 21:48 |
| Mariux | maybe you can help me | 21:48 |
| Mariux | i just subscribed the artwork mailing list | 21:48 |
| Mariux | and now i want to create a Wiki page about me | 21:48 |
| Mariux | how can i do this? | 21:48 |
| troy_s | Mariux: Very easily. | 21:49 |
| troy_s | Mariux: What is your Launchpad ID? | 21:49 |
| Mariux | i've no Launchpad ID | 21:49 |
| Mariux | do i need one? | 21:50 |
| Mariux | how can i get it? | 21:50 |
| troy_s | Mariux: Yes. It will be what you logon to the Wiki using as well. | 21:50 |
| troy_s | Mariux: Start by going to the Wiki to see if it is still set up with the Launchpad IDs... | 21:50 |
| troy_s | Mariux: http://wiki.ubuntu.com | 21:50 |
| Mariux | well but if i subscribed the mailing list using my email and then i'll use the same for launchpad can it works? | 21:51 |
| troy_s | Mariux: It should. | 21:53 |
| troy_s | Mariux: Just try logging into the Wiki | 21:53 |
| Mariux | logging using my launchpad id? | 21:55 |
| Mariux | or my email? | 21:55 |
| troy_s | Mariux: Go to the wiki, and try to logon. When it doesn't let you, sign up for an account. It will do the rest. | 21:55 |
| troy_s | Mariux: in the past, it made you sign up at launchpad. | 21:56 |
| troy_s | Mariux: I suspect it still will. | 21:56 |
| Mariux | well but i already have an id on the wiki | 21:56 |
| Mariux | that is Mariux3 | 21:56 |
| troy_s | Mariux: Then go to the page that you wish to create -- usually via launchpad it will be something like FirstnameLastname | 21:56 |
| troy_s | so http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MariuxLastname | 21:57 |
| Mariux | oh cool | 21:57 |
| Mariux | nice | 21:57 |
| troy_s | Mariux: Then simply click 'create page' and carry on. | 21:57 |
| Mariux | THX:-D | 21:57 |
| Mariux | only one question | 21:58 |
| Mariux | if i want to logout as Mariux3 and login as Mariux how can i do this? | 21:58 |
| troy_s | Mariux: Uh... when you created your user name did you try Mariux? | 21:58 |
| troy_s | Mariux: If you did, and it was taken, you can't change your logon. That would be a different account. | 21:58 |
| Mariux | ah ok | 21:59 |
| Mariux | probably mariux was already gone | 21:59 |
| Mariux | thx ;-) | 21:59 |
| troy_s | Mariux: Well try it. | 22:00 |
| troy_s | Mariux: if it is taken, it will tell you. | 22:00 |
| Mariux | but where can i logout? | 22:00 |
| Mariux | sorry i can't find it | 22:01 |
| troy_s | Mariux: It's ok. | 22:02 |
| troy_s | Mariux: Top right generally on Ubuntu related places | 22:02 |
| troy_s | Mariux: But it isn't exactly a consistent place... just look around. | 22:02 |
| Mariux | ok thx | 22:03 |
| Mariux | maybe i have to clear the cookies | 22:04 |
| troy_s | Mariux: No... it shouldn't need it unless you set your browser to autologon. | 22:04 |
| Mariux | yeah autologon is set | 22:05 |
| Mariux | everytime i open the wiki i'm logged as mariux3 | 22:05 |
| troy_s | Mariux: Hrm... under 'User Preferences" at the bottom above "First Time" | 22:06 |
| troy_s | Mariux: Is the 'logout' button (great design) | 22:06 |
| Mariux | ahahah ok thx | 22:07 |
| Mariux | didn't see it | 22:07 |
| Mariux | ;_) | 22:07 |
| Mariux | thx again troy_s!!!!!! | 22:07 |
| troy_s | Mariux: No problem friend. | 22:07 |
| Mariux | only one thing | 22:11 |
| Mariux | what is a wikiname? | 22:11 |
| troy_s | Mariux: A term used to reference a wiki page. | 22:11 |
| troy_s | Mariux: CamelCase works... as do underscores for spaces | 22:12 |
| troy_s | Mariux: For example Space_Between or CamelCase | 22:12 |
| Mariux | no ok | 22:12 |
| troy_s | Mariux: That help? | 22:12 |
| Mariux | well | 22:12 |
| Mariux | so my username can be Mariux4 and my wikiname Mariux? | 22:13 |
| Mariux | is this? | 22:13 |
| troy_s | Your username isn't terribly relevant Mariux | 22:13 |
| troy_s | Mariux: Your home page name is generally something like MariuxLastname | 22:13 |
| troy_s | Mariux: Look at what Launchpad has attempted to autoset for you. | 22:13 |
| troy_s | Mariux: But FirstnameLastname works | 22:14 |
| troy_s | Mariux: Any other questions? I must bolt out to get a new jar of India ink. | 22:14 |
| Mariux | so if it's autoset to Mariux4 i have to create the wikipage Mariux4 | 22:15 |
| Mariux | correct? | 22:15 |
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