[00:53] nixternal You areound perhaps [01:50] wow part message from |[Petey]| [01:51] nice [01:51] if he can't figure out ubuntu... he's gonna go for gentoo? [01:51] hehe [02:34] Flannel called the ops in #ubuntu (bloodangel) [02:35] Flannel called the ops in #ubuntu (bloodangel) [02:36] PriceChild: thanks [02:36] 85%....oh dear. [02:37] 85%? [02:37] used of bandwidth for the month. [03:48] I just started a new Ubuntu related channel, and have some questions... Am I in the right channel? [03:49] Baltazaar: What is the channel for? [03:53] well... I feel that the #ubuntu channel gets very overcrowded with total newcomers, and that the language specific #ubuntu-xx is somewhat too "small" so I opened up #ubuntu-advanced, to be something "in between" [03:54] English speaking [03:55] what do you think about that? [03:56] I dont think it is a great idea personally [03:57] others may disagree, but there have been discussions about splitting #ubuntu before, and it was generally decided that it is a bad idea [03:58] whether a problem is "advanced" or not is totally subjective [03:59] you will get people joining from #ubuntu asking the same questions in both channels, because they aren't getting support quick enough in one [03:59] it splits the helpers between the channels, so ome problems will get missed [04:01] Baltazaar: How long did you spend in #ubuntu before deciding this? [04:01] there is like 1000+ in #ubuntu and questions fly by, some is unnoticed. I realize that it is hard to decide if problems is advanced or not, but I miss a more technical competent channel [04:02] well... I've been using it since 2005 [04:02] I mean in the IRC channel. [04:02] on and off for some time [04:03] Baltazaar: I suspect that everyone that joins #ubuntu think that their problem is "advanced" (i.e. cannot be solved by googling in < 1 min) [04:04] because if they could solve it by googling in < 1 minute, they probably would have done so already [04:04] no. that's the problem [04:04] huh? [04:05] many answers to the questions is in the faq on ubuntu.com [04:06] it's like google gets priority 2 [04:06] #ubuntu 1 [04:06] but most people will think that their problem is advanced [04:06] that's a problem [04:06] ;-) [04:07] and you try to enforce an "advanced" question only policy in your channel, you will spend most of your time redirecting users, rather than helping people [04:07] true to some extent [04:07] and then people will get pissy with you, because you decide that their problem isn't advanced enough, and noone will respond to them in #ubuntu, so you should help them instead [04:09] still think it's in it's place [04:09] how do you plan to enforce the "advanced questions only"? [04:10] who decides what is advanced [04:11] well... I was thinking about explaining something in the topic [04:11] a) that doesn't answer either of the questions [04:12] Baltazaar: We have policies and procedures in place that need to be completed before a new channel is created within the #ubuntu namespace on Freenode. In addition, something like this would be subject to the approval of the Ubuntu IRC Council. [04:12] b) can you define what counts as advanced definitively in 2 lines of text? [04:12] Jack_Sparrow: I am here now [04:12] c) noone reads topics [04:12] May I have a quick pm [04:13] Baltazaar: ^ [04:13] thinking [04:15] well, I see your point, but I'm pretty sure that you see mine as well [04:16] you still haven't answered the questions [04:16] I know [04:16] and, as far as i'm concerned, the problems outweigh the benifits [04:17] guess that must be a test-of-time thing [04:18] its a general splitting-up-#ubuntu-wont-work thing [04:18] The argument agaWe already had enough trouble near Hardy's release ferrying people into #ubuntu+1 to deal with beta/rc questions. [04:18] er, I guess I didnt finish writing that, oh well. [04:18] Pici: better luck next time :P [04:19] Baltazaar: It doesn't help convince me it is a good idea when you haven't answered the questions I asked 10 minutes ago [04:20] I'm not planning to. I believe the only way to find out is learning by doing. [04:20] We're only being stubborn about this because the question comes up often enough and we decide the same way often enough that its not worth it. [04:20] Baltazaar: You need to have a point to start from to find otu by learning [04:21] That would be ##ubuntu-advanced, then.... [04:21] Baltazaar: I want to know how you actually plan on stopping people from asking non-advanced questions, and who decides what is non-advanced [04:22] That would be a bot answer, directing them to #ubuntu, because the question is too general [04:22] how does the bot know what is an advanced question? [04:22] nixternal May I have a brief pm [04:22] regex? [04:22] Do you happen to have a bot capable of understanding normal speech? [04:23] if so, can I have it, as I know of a couple of companies that would be very interested in it [04:23] It would be a piece of work [04:23] *sigh* [04:23] and what exactly would these regex's look for? [04:23] Would you have the irc client set the "simple bit" when it sends text to the channel? [04:24] Seeker`: pm? [04:24] Jack_Sparrow: sure [04:24] Pici: sure [04:24] I'm starting to catch fire here... [04:24] sorry [04:24] I apologise if I am coming across as a bit hostile [04:25] I was asking for opinions... I got that ++ [04:26] my point is that doing it automatically is virtually impossible [04:26] I know that [04:26] doing it manually would be time consuming [04:27] and there isnt really a way of stopping people from asking "simple" questions [04:27] just that its so insanely many people out there using Ubuntu, and ubuntu.com lists #ubuntu as the help channel, so it gets flooded... [04:28] the idea of splitting #ubuntu has been discussed several times before, and each time it was decided that it wasn't feasible [04:28] I hear you [04:28] We do try to triage then into networking, sound effects etc [04:30] being in #ubuntu, makes me want to go back to #slackware, if you know what I mean. People in that camp knows about google, compiling etc.... [04:32] And you do get flamed if you ask a gg:"your question here" [04:33] Baltazaar: Isn't slackware aimed at more expereienced people though? [04:35] Baltazaar: You may want to have a gander at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/ if you havent already. [04:35] I'm taking off for the night. [04:35] maybe so... I've been using it, but Ubuntu is nice, hassle-free (most of the time), and I like it. Just sad that the main irc channel is so totally on the other side of the planet [04:39] Baltazaar: most distributions with a self-validated barrier of knowledge have communities like that... [04:39] Baltazaar: I've dabbed in FreeBSD, Windows product team, and Gentoo before ubuntu.. and they all feel that way [04:39] it's a side effect of the barrier to entry [04:40] good thing or bad thing, it's too late at night for me to reflect [04:40] sure... [04:40] FWIW the forums does have a separate section for beginners [04:41] I feel that people prioritize like 1. #ubuntu 2. Forum 3. Google, and actually doing something, like reading error logs. [04:42] if they know where to find them [04:44] but thats what people that are new to linux do [04:44] Baltazaar: that's a fairly logical/typical workflow... [04:45] thats what most people do, really [04:45] Baltazaar: not everyone is so technically inclined as to automatically know how to jump to #3 [04:45] "typical" linux commnities tend to be different because most of the users are geeks / programmers [04:45] who know what to do to fix problems. The average person just wants a working computer [04:47] right, 4:45am = bedtime. Night. === Jucato_ is now known as Jucato [04:48] don't let the bugs bite [05:48] Baltazaar, is there something else to discuss? this channel has a no idle policy. [05:49] sorry... leaving... [06:15] hi all [06:16] some guy named lnxidiot is complaining to #freenode that he was harassed by the ubuntu channels when he tried to get help [06:16] help me dear god, the embarrassment!!!!!!!!!!! [06:16] lnxidiot, what is the issue [06:16] i see no logs of this as i've been on the channels for a few hours now. just thought i'd let you know :P [06:16] oh. and look he followed me in here. lol. [06:17] AtomicSpark, thanks we can take care of this; if that is all then there is no idling here [06:17] can I please have some help with cdrecord? [06:18] lnxidiot, come back to #ubuntu for that [06:18] ok [06:18] no idling here please lnxidiot [06:27] !idle | lnxidiot [06:27] lnxidiot: Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only, and we ask you to part when you have no further business here, in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries. === Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth [06:48] moin [07:18] http://ihasahotdog.com/2008/05/18/cute-puppy-pictures-wid-da-sound-a-muzic/ GOOOOOOOD morning #ubuntu-ops [07:18] and an EXCELLENT week. [07:22] Hello Myrtti! :D [07:23] (this week is bound to be more excellent than the last since it's really difficult to get any worse from rock bottom, though I've seen those weeks too) [07:23] haha [07:23] * jussi01 huggles Myrtti [07:24] the real question is: when will ubottu be able to huggle again :) [07:24] bazhang: never [07:24] :0 [07:24] :-> lifes little compromises [07:24] nah, maybe Ill eable it again sometime... [07:24] enable even [07:25] * jussi01 goes to look which plugin that was agian... [07:25] jussi01: don't do it [07:25] Myrtti: hehe [08:14] ompaul: you here? [08:14] (UDS, not IRC) [08:42] I'm starting to think this tv7 feller is reincarnation of Asus-tek [08:42] heh [08:45] and I'm not even joking [08:46] never saw asus enough to compare [09:02] I think I understand now [09:03] @btlogin [09:04] ip's don't match though [09:05] odd; the actions do seem to though [09:05] okies [09:05] so that explains it [09:06] aha [09:23] jussi01: Can we get the bot in the uds channels? [09:23] jussi01: at least #ubuntu-devel-summit and #uds-desktop [09:24] #ubuntu-irc [09:24] woops [09:24] #uds-community [09:27] who else has access to the bot? [09:27] and here we have the lag... [09:27] moi [09:28] eep lag [09:29] so do you probably [09:29] @login [09:29] Myrtti: The operation succeeded. [09:29] bad one [09:29] I'm suffering it too [09:29] which channels was it? [09:30] ompaul, Amaranth [09:30] #ubuntu-devel-summit, #uds-desktop, #uds-community [09:31] ubottu: join #ubuntu-devel-summit [09:31] Myrtti: Error: You don't have the admin capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified. [09:31] Myrtti: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [09:31] yeah, i can't do it either :) [09:31] there are a basically 6 tracks http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/uds-intrepid/ [09:31] @join #ubuntu-devel-summit [09:31] Amaranth: Error: You don't have the admin capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified. [09:31] @btlogin [09:31] @whoami [09:31] Amaranth: amaranth [09:31] @whoami [09:31] humdidumdi [09:31] Myrtti: myrtti [09:33] yay AC cooling my laptop [09:42] @whoibe [09:46] haha [09:46] yay coffee time [09:46] except they're still talking about pulseaudio in here [09:47] LjL: poit [09:58] ubottu: join #ubuntu-devel-summit [09:58] jussi01: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [09:58] ubottu: join #uds-desktop [09:58] jussi01: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [09:58] woo, full 7 minutes of lag before dropping off [09:58] ubottu: join #uds-community [09:58] jussi01: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [09:58] heya Myrtti === Myrtti_ is now known as Myrtti [11:40] oh lawd [11:41] yes dear? [11:41] he has a reason .... [11:41] fcol [11:41] that tv7 feller really starts to tick me off soon [11:41] hahah [11:41] he's just like asustek [11:41] * Tm_T ticles Myrtti [11:42] though a bit more $adjective, perhaps [11:52] !didntwork [11:52] Factoid didntwork not found [11:52] !did not work [11:52] Factoid did not work not found [11:52] haxt [11:52] !doesntwork | ompaul [11:52] !didnotwork [11:52] ompaul: Doesn't work is a strong statement. Does it sit on the couch all day? Does it want more money? Is it on IRC all the time? Please be specific! Examples of what doesn't work tend to help too. [11:52] Factoid didnotwork not found [11:52] jussi01, thanks [11:53] :) [11:53] !didnotwork is doesntwork [11:53] I know nothing about didnotwork is doesntwor yet, Myrtti [11:53] telling me to stfu [11:53] Myrtti: make didnotwork something first [11:54] !didnotwork is foo [11:54] I'll remember that, Myrtti [11:54] !no didnotwork is doesntwork [11:54] I'll remember that Myrtti [11:54] !didnotwork [11:54] Doesn't work is a strong statement. Does it sit on the couch all day? Does it want more money? Is it on IRC all the time? Please be specific! Examples of what doesn't work tend to help too. [11:54] bazhang: in pm? [11:54] :) [11:55] in channel; in PM was the full nine yards [11:59] Anyone alive? [11:59] yes haxt how can we help you [12:00] Why are power-stricken people always quick to gun, when they are the ones that are offtopic? [12:00] When someone is helping three different people at once and he gets kicked from #ubuntu, that really makes him want to come back and help you know that [12:01] All of ubuntu staff should be proud of an operator who boots someone ACTIVELY helping as he was booted. [12:01] your language was unacceptable [12:01] period [12:01] we appreciate your helping the users [12:01] First off, a single acronym once, WHEN I DIDN'T KNOW is not unacceptable. [12:01] I'm not done. [12:01] Secondly, it was in a PM. [12:01] funny, my lastlog shows the acronym too [12:01] And that has nothign to do with my needed booting in a chan. [12:02] and I don't see you pm'in me [12:02] it was in channel, and after asking you to stop offtopic chat [12:02] THERE WAS NO OFFTOPIC CHAT [12:02] WHAT ARE YOU TAKLING ABOUT [12:02] LOL [12:02] Dude can you read english? [12:02] !shout [12:02] PLEASE DON'T SHOUT! We can read lowercase too. [12:02] haxt: nownow [12:02] haxt, be nice [12:02] Well I've said it about 10 times now. [12:02] And he keeps saying "offtopic chat". [12:02] What?!?! HOW?!?! There wasn't any. [12:03] It's mind-boggling how someone NOT typing in the channel can come out of nowhere and claim offtopic chat. [12:03] ompaul: it's an honest question. [12:03] I am seriously like, dumbfounded. [12:03] fine [12:03] I am to think the ubuntu userbase is experienced, and educated. [12:03] Like me. [12:04] then sit down and relax and someone will try to explain it to you [12:04] since you are, as you said, dumbfounded [12:04] Alright, please do. [12:04] as I said [12:04] we really appreciate you helping people in #ubuntu [12:05] die-hard hackers use ubuntu; when I put on my black hat I use knoppix [12:05] it's nice to see people getting helped and giving help in return [12:05] Not to interrupt, but why did bazhang just paste that? It's not even the whole line and is entirely out of context. [12:05] but we as ops have to take care that the people in need of help arent' confused with chitchat that isn't directly connected to ubuntu support [12:06] Okay, well that never occurred. [12:06] when being asked to stay ontopic you said some unacceptable language as well [12:06] theres too many users and too many ubuntu newbies and even more, too many irc newbies to allow that [12:06] bazhang: ssssh [12:07] Myrtti: True, However he was the one who began the offtopic rant. I was helping someone, they asked me a qusetion about ubuntu recursive hidden wildcards. [12:07] And what did I do but tell him I don't use Fedora, which he referenced to not having to use it [12:07] and I said to him the two linux distros i do use, as to what i could help him with [12:08] and said that's it's fine, he didn't need to use the wildcard he just used /src [12:08] bazhang came out of NOWHERE [12:08] and was like !ot | haxt [12:08] well then we have a situation of that reflects the "Laws of communication" [12:08] No./ [12:08] the amount of misunderstanding is proportional to the amount of communication [12:08] I believe that you have poor judgement in your staff. [12:08] No. [12:08] Not at all. [12:08] Myrtti: I'm sorry I can see you are trying to protect him. [12:09] I don't really care at all about this situation. I just think for YOU. [12:09] no, I'm trying to mediate [12:09] I am saying, ubuntu has a good name [12:09] haxt, the first part of this is important for this [12:09] I don't want to see it tarnished by poor staff. [12:09] you're both getting pissed of for a minor reason [12:09] !guidlines [12:09] Factoid guidlines not found [12:09] !guidelines [12:09] The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines [12:09] Myrtii: I'm not pissed off. [12:10] I could care less about bazhang. [12:10] well agitated then [12:10] I am here to talk to you about your staff. [12:10] You are anyone that has the ears on staff. [12:10] I like ubuntu, and want to help it's users. [12:10] our staff is voluteers as much as you are [12:10] I agree with it's message. [12:10] Yeah well you need to close the gates. [12:10] Community-driven doesn't mean everyone needs ops. [12:11] and not everyone has ops [12:11] ChanServ grants + bazhang [12:11] +o* [12:11] that's ops k [12:11] Alright, whatever. [12:11] haxt: that's because he is an op [12:11] not because anyone is [12:11] I'm done. Okay. okay. [12:11] You guys don't get it. [12:11] I think i do [12:12] What then? [12:12] What then [12:12] You don't see. [12:12] lol [12:12] All I came here to say. [12:12] I think you're not getting us... [12:12] but do go on [12:12] Getting "us"? [12:12] See, you already have invisible lines drawn, even though you say ops are peopel like me. [12:12] lol [12:13] Anyways. [12:13] Like I way saying before you interrupted me. [12:13] haxt, perhaps you would like to read the guidelines doc and associated documents you might find it interesting [12:13] ompaul: you have no idea that i have read them are are reading them. are you vnc'd to me? can you see my desktop? can you view my history? no. [12:13] Anyways, AGAIN interrupted. [12:14] I was trying to say. [12:14] I was fully functioning as a productive member of the channel #ubuntu [12:14] and out of nowhere [12:14] bazhang came out [12:14] yes, we heard that already [12:14] and decided to power-trip and act like an authoritarian. [12:14] And that makes YOU [12:14] not just bazhang [12:14] look bad [12:14] to not just me [12:15] but those other peopel that i was helping [12:15] that pm [12:15] haxt: he's an op, watching over the flow of the discussion [12:15] d me and said "WTF?" [12:15] no he wasn't [12:15] lol [12:15] that's the thing [12:15] he wasn't watching [12:15] if he was he would've seen the conversation [12:15] oh for crying out loud [12:15] so now you've got vnc to his desktop? [12:15] wow. ok. im done with you kids. [12:15] later [12:15] ... [12:16] lol [12:16] for some reason i think i remember him from a while ago [12:16] I couldn't get even the half of what I tried to tell him through [12:16] * wgrant stifles a laugh. [12:16] that nick is very fammilar to me [12:16] Myrtti: yeah 3-word delimited sentences don't flow well [12:16] for some silly reason [12:16] I dont know [12:16] exactly why. [12:18] It's just funny. There were about 3 people helping in the channel, including me, for about the last 3 hours. And then this shit happened. Well now I guess you have those 2 guys and bazhang all of a sudden is now helping people in his broken english. What a good substitute. [12:18] Goodbye freenode.! [12:18] right... [12:18] oki [12:19] So when did we get a promotion to "staff" ? [12:19] we are channel staff? [12:19] Hrm... I thought the word was operators [12:20] I thought too [12:20] arent staff the guys from freenode? [12:20] (and gals) [12:20] network staff yes [12:23] @btlogin [12:28] !myrtti [12:28] Dear $DEITY, Give me strength to understand and work with users who question my logic, the rules, netiquette and common sense. Give me resilience to teach them the basics of Linux, Ubuntu, Community Guidelines and IRC. Allow me not to stray to nitpicking, argument, foul language or leisure op abuse. Deliver me my daily xkcd, User Friendly, LWN, /. and Planet Ubuntu, and guard over my encrypted drives. Let it be so. [12:28] sigh [12:29] Myrtti: I love it! [12:30] *sigh* [12:30] it's a true prayer that I sometimes recite [12:30] * Pici just got done reading the backscroll from last night. [12:32] mmm. fruitcakes. [12:32] gotta love the irc variety. [12:32] haha [12:33] (in general, not that guy in particular) [12:39] mmmm raspberry [12:39] /me goes to ransack her jam stash [12:47] Anyone heard anything from paladine lately wrt irseek? [12:48] i gave him the page i wrote a few viewpoints on but haven't heard anything since [12:48] I have heard nothink. === elkbuntu is now known as elky [12:58] guys, just be greatful we didn't get the maggot. Hopefully he'll never find #ubuntu. [12:58] ( http://rafb.net/p/G7CRIk57.html for context, among others) [12:58] hehe [12:58]