[00:49]  * seele yawns
[00:50] <seele> ugh.. should go to bed.. but it's only 19:50 home time!
[01:53] <nixternal> oi
[02:00] <Hobbsee> oi back!
[02:14] <nixternal> hopefully I have a new job! woohoo
[02:14] <Hobbsee> woot!
[02:14]  * Hobbsee should apply for a new job
[02:15] <nixternal> this new job would probably take a ton of my free time away :(
[02:15] <Jucato> nixternal: free time to work on Kubuntu? :(
[02:16] <nixternal> but it is hacking on Red Hat/CentOS, and possibly Foresight and Ubuntu to create an application/appliance for customers
[02:16] <nixternal> Jucato: would be slim, very slim
[02:16]  * Jucato sobs
[02:16] <Jucato> what would Kubuntu do without you?
[02:16] <nixternal> be successful :)
[02:17] <Jucato> good. just asking :)
[02:17] <nixternal> heh, I don't do anything anyways but open my big mouth
[02:17] <Jucato> never underestimate the power of an opened big mouth :D
[02:18] <nixternal> heh
[02:18] <Jucato> specially one that spits out docs and release notes :)
[02:23] <nixternal> docs and release notes are easy to do
[02:28] <Jucato> so easy no one wants to do them ;)
[02:32] <nixternal> hehe, so true
[03:53]  * vorian waves
[04:40] <daskReech> seele: If awake i'd be privvie to talk to you
[05:26] <daskReech> nixternal: hi
[05:26] <daskReech> Bah
[05:27]  * daskReech doesn't feel like talking about nixternal whiles he be out tonight 
[05:27] <daskReech> Nightrose: ping
[07:47] <mhb_uds> good morning!
[07:47]  * mhb_uds is the house
[07:51] <mhb> hmm, another buggie
[07:52] <mhb> with the latest KDE4 packages, knotify4 seems to often decide to eat 101% of the CPU until you kill it
[07:52] <mhb> anyone experienced that?
[07:55] <daskReech> No I've normally just had it die by itself
[07:55] <daskReech> Plasma takes up like 25% of the CPU though
[07:56] <mhb> daskReech: have you managed to get rid of that?
[08:03] <daskReech> mhb: Not once I start using Firefox
[08:03] <daskReech>  it pops up right after that
[08:04] <mhb> does it.
[08:05] <daskReech> Yeah But I have other stuff I'm more worried about
[08:05] <daskReech> Like passwords not working
[08:07] <mhb> I wonder where our incomprehensibly speaking leader is
[08:07] <Artemis_Fowl> mhb: latest KDE4 packages are version..?
[08:07] <mhb> not sure.
[08:08] <Artemis_Fowl> 4.1 or 4.0.x series?
[08:08] <mhb> 4.0.x
[08:08] <mhb> Riddell: ah, here you are.
[08:08] <mhb> Riddell: good morning, sir
[08:08] <Riddell> mhb: ahoy there
[08:09] <mhb> Artemis_Fowl: oh, by the way
[08:10] <Artemis_Fowl> mhb: ?
[08:10] <mhb> Artemis_Fowl: I compiled the kgrubeditor
[08:11] <mhb> Artemis_Fowl: it's not as nice as in the screenshots
[08:11] <mhb> it doesn't have any icons
[08:11] <Artemis_Fowl> at all?
[08:11] <mhb> let me do a screen of my own
[08:11] <Artemis_Fowl> mhb: did you make install it?
[08:13] <mhb> Artemis_Fowl: http://mhb.ath.cx/tmp/kgrubeditor.jpeg
[08:13] <mhb> Artemis_Fowl: no, no make install.
[08:13] <mhb> it's not able to find its data if it's not installed?
[08:14] <Riddell> that's pretty common
[08:14] <Artemis_Fowl> mhb: yes
[08:14] <Artemis_Fowl> mhb: it looks for its icons under KStandardDirs, its rc file etc
[08:14] <Artemis_Fowl> mhb: btw ugly screenshot indeed :P
[08:15] <mhb> Artemis_Fowl: ugly as in my fault or yours? it's the latest code
[08:16] <Artemis_Fowl> mhb: ugly as it has no icons/toolbars etc
[08:16] <mhb> Artemis_Fowl: installing it improved that.
[08:16] <Artemis_Fowl> hopefully
[08:18] <Artemis_Fowl> mhb: only the main view is as it ought to be(according to the wireframes)
[08:19] <mhb> Artemis_Fowl: by the way - I don't like the wizard editor much
[08:19] <mhb> Artemis_Fowl: I'm not much fond of wizards
[08:20] <mhb> Artemis_Fowl: if you used it for a 100th time, it gets bothersome
[08:20] <Artemis_Fowl> :| seele has the same opinion. she said it would be ok to release with it and see if anyone at all uses it
[08:20] <Artemis_Fowl> if not then bye-bye
[08:21] <mhb> Artemis_Fowl: if you think people might like it, then ok
[08:21] <mhb> I don't, but you're the author :o)
[08:21] <Artemis_Fowl> actually the reason I keep it is because it is documented
[08:22] <Artemis_Fowl> even if a user doesn't know anything about makeactive let's say, he can quickly understand its use
[08:22] <Artemis_Fowl> but I can't fit such info in the quick editor
[08:22] <Artemis_Fowl> anyway. we will see
[08:23] <mhb> Artemis_Fowl: another suggestion
[08:23] <mhb> Artemis_Fowl: which I might implement later, but no time ATM
[08:23] <mhb> Artemis_Fowl: you might want to consider on startup, creating a "pre-kgrubeditor" backup
[08:23] <Artemis_Fowl> mhb: it does
[08:24] <mhb> oh, does it?
[08:24] <mhb> that's terrific
[08:24] <mhb> Artemis_Fowl: good work then :o)
[08:24] <Artemis_Fowl> mhb: it has the same name with the original file plus a _original suffix
[08:24] <Artemis_Fowl> this backup is created for every file that is accessed for the first time
[08:26] <Artemis_Fowl> mhb: it will be used in the future in the "Defaults" button which appears in the SystemSettings
[08:26] <Artemis_Fowl> at least that's what seele told me
[08:26] <mhb> Artemis_Fowl: hmm, that might be a bit radical
[08:27] <mhb> Artemis_Fowl: because when I set defaults, I really don't mean "forget all my menu.lst changes in the past three years"
[08:27] <Artemis_Fowl> y I know
[08:27] <mhb> I mean - I want my wallpaper reset, but that's all :o)
[08:28] <Artemis_Fowl> you could talk about it with seele
[08:31] <mhb> Riddell: hmm, this single sign on seems like the big thing in ibex
[08:32] <mhb> Riddell: I guess we'd make users happy if we supported it in the same release ubuntu does
[08:32] <ScottK-uds> What is it?
[08:32]  * ScottK-uds is in community this morning.
[08:32] <mhb> Riddell: have you thought about that?
[08:33] <mhb> (I'm sure you have, I just wonder if you got a plan)
[08:34] <mhb> ScottK-uds: it's about having a "ubuntu.net" account, which stores your encrypted password wallet, so you'll be able to easily migrate your user from a freshly installed computer to a new one.
[08:34] <mhb> ScottK-uds: or that's how I understand it
[08:34] <ScottK-uds> Interesting.
[08:35] <ScottK-uds> Yes.  I think we should support that in the same release Ubuntu does.
[08:37] <mhb> at first sight, it doesn't look that impossible to create
[08:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: ping ?
[08:38] <daskReech> You mean an OpenID ?
[08:38] <mhb> daskReech: a bit, but not exactly
[08:39] <mhb> daskReech: I mean having a remote secure place where you can easily store your Jabber account info, Facebook info, Flickr info, Google account info, etc.
[08:39] <ScottK-uds> Do we know who is doing the Ubuntu implementation?
[08:40] <mhb> ScottK-uds: I don't think they've discussed the implementation yet
[08:40] <ScottK-uds> OK.
[08:40] <Riddell> Tonio_: rebonjour
[08:40] <mhb> ScottK-uds: they just talk about the functionality and structure of the data storage
[08:40] <Riddell> mhb: I've not had much chance to think about it, and I don't have much of a plan (but then neither does ubuntu have a plan as such)
[08:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: where are you?
[08:41] <Riddell> Tonio_: desktop room
[08:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: I've been searching for you for 45 nutes
[08:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: ah oki
[08:41] <mhb> Riddell: no, that's what UDS is about, isn't it?
[08:41] <mhb> Riddell: about devising a plan
[08:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: I wasn't sure that one was concerning us
[08:41] <Riddell> mhb: yep
[08:41] <mhb> Tonio_: it turns out it does
[08:41]  * mhb is there, too
[08:43] <ScottK-uds> I going to go to the distributed development session now just for self-defense so they don't shove bzr down my throat.
[08:52] <mhb> hmm, so it's a good time to check out the kwallet code
[08:53] <mhb> I also remember some Suse patch (who would have guessed?) that allowed to sign on your kwallet if your password to the account was the same as the kwallet password
[08:53] <mhb> Riddell: do you happen to know if that one made it upstream?
[08:54] <Riddell> mhb: it has not, I remember it being talked about, although I haven't come across the patch
[08:54] <Riddell> mhb: although that does sound like most of the desktop integration with ubuntu.net, otherwise it seems to just be another web site service
[08:57] <mhb> right, the only thing we'd need to implement is the syncing with ubuntu.net
[08:57] <mhb> well, we also need to wait to find out how they are going to offer the ubuntu.net account to the user
[08:57] <mhb> I don't assume it's going to be exported anywhere by default
[08:57] <mhb> and I need to get more familiar with the kwallet structure
[08:58] <mhb> Riddell: how much do you need to do to go from an empty wallet and empty kopete to kopete with your accounts configured correctly?
[08:58] <mhb> that's more or less what the synchronization tool is supposed to do
[08:58] <Riddell> mhb: currently or with ubuntu.net?
[08:59] <Riddell> it's just a file in ~/.kde/share/apps/kwallet/kdewallet.kwl
[08:59] <mhb> Riddell: I mean even if you have no Kopete configured, information in that file will get your account(s) signed on?
[09:00] <Riddell> mhb: yes
[09:00] <mhb> hmm, that's interesting
[09:00] <mhb> I have to try that.
[09:04] <mhb> Riddell: hmm, I guess there's some misinformation in what I said.
[09:04] <mhb> Riddell: say I have a fresh install. I click "sync with my ubuntu.net account" and I expect kopete to have all my jabber accounts
[09:05] <mhb> which is unfortunately not only the kwallet information at the moment
[09:05] <Riddell> hmm, right
[09:07] <mhb> Riddell: perhaps we might want to ask in a KDE mailing list about it, to see if there'd be a chance of changing the position of the data, but I'm afraid that won't be possible
[09:07] <Riddell> mhb: which data, and why?
[09:07] <mhb> well, forget it
[09:07] <Riddell> at fosscamp lubos did say he'd work on unifying kwallet and gnome keyring, which might be related
[09:07] <mhb> user account data
[09:08] <mhb> user accounts data, I mean from konqueror, kopete, kontact ... currently they're spread throughout all the kde configuration files
[09:08] <mhb> passwords stored in one place, but just those.
[09:10] <Riddell> I doubt there'll be a need to move config stuff, if this single sign on gets used for anything other than web data there will need to be a local app which writes the local config files, and that can be adapted for kde
[09:10]  * Artemis_Fowl just commited the latest changes
[09:11] <mhb> yes, but since all of the user account data is spread throughout the applications, that parser will get really complex
[09:12] <mhb> in the end, it might happen that the app is even writing the same information in multiple files just because the apps aren't told to look in the same place for the same info
[09:12] <mhb> I hope I make *some* sense
[09:13] <Riddell> not super complex, it's just text files, Tm_T will be doing something similar for migration assitant
[09:13] <Riddell> you certainly do
[09:14] <mhb> no, at this scale it's still simple, however, if duplications happen, we might want to suggest to KDE to store user accounts information in one file, perhaps. Not sure.
[09:14] <mhb> the only downside of that script is our time, and it's not too much time, so I'm totally fine with writing those scripts.
[09:15] <mhb> however, it may get a bit nasty because the script has to both check if the information isn't already there, in a different way perhaps, and then write them
[09:16] <mhb> it has to be pretty smart to avoid duplicate information (say the user forgot to use his ubuntu.net account, so he inserted that information into kopete by hand, then wanted to sync up)
[09:18] <Riddell> yep
[09:20] <Riddell> I don't know how this would work on the client side (I don't think anyone does), it could be the apps themsevles get patched to talk to ubuntu.net, which would be more tricky
[09:20] <mhb> I would prefer the other way
[09:21] <mhb> reading configuration files gets tricky, but it's still not impossible, and it creates no overhead.
[09:21] <Riddell> yep
[09:22] <mhb> if I had a vote in this discussion, I'd go for the configuration file parser and a window in systemsettings for you to select what you want to sync and use
[09:22] <mhb> of course, it gets more complex than that, but I'd avoid patching the apps
[09:24] <mhb> Riddell: are they going to purchase the ubuntu.net service?
[09:25] <mhb> Riddell: I mean - is it going to be free or paid?
[09:25] <Riddell> mhb: they being users?
[09:25] <Riddell> both I expect
[09:25] <mhb> hmm
[09:25] <Riddell> main services for free, others could be revenue generating
[09:27] <mhb> Riddell: hmm, right. I hope stuff like syncing any number of computers won't be paid
[09:27] <\sh> ubuntu.net?
[09:27] <mhb> yes
[09:27] <\sh> and what should that be?
[09:28] <Riddell> mhb: I doubt it
[09:28] <Riddell> \sh: oh do keep up :)
[09:28] <mhb> Riddell: too many negatives... you meant that it will be free, or paid?
[09:28] <Riddell> mhb: I doubt syncing anything will cost money
[09:29] <mhb> that'd be great
[09:29] <mhb> Apple is offering a similar service called .mac I think
[09:29] <\sh> Riddell, in the moment this is difficult...but give me a pointer to read
[09:29] <mhb> but it's paid, so good for those apple lovers, but nothing for me
[09:29] <Riddell> \sh: http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/oder.ogg.m3u :)
[09:30] <Riddell> mhb: I don't think ubuntu.net will provide services itself in the way mac.com does, mostly just a gateway to other people's services, maybe ubuntu branded ones
[09:31] <mhb> Riddell: right, .mac is offering quite a lot more, online backups, web space and stuff. But they also offer the syncing (AFAIK) which got me so interested in ubuntu.net.
[09:32] <\sh> Riddell, distributed development?
[09:32] <mhb> heh, the icecasts are mixed yet again
[09:32] <Riddell> \sh: hmm, no http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/volga.ogg.m3u
[09:32] <Riddell> mhb: just me is mixed up :)
[09:32] <\sh> Riddell, grmpf ;I)
[09:33] <mhb> Riddell: ah
[09:34] <\sh> oh single signon...my loleby topic during lycos ;)
[09:35] <\sh> and we started to think about that, during breezy imho when for the first time the name "telepathy" was mentioned ;)
[09:40] <\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/IM/DesktopIntegrationSIPIM?action=show&redirect=MOTUIM%2FDesktopIntegrationSIPIM that was the first part of it
[09:42] <mhb> Riddell: well, at least I've got a task to do during this week - finding out what apps might be affected by ubuntu.net and what the corresponding config files look like
[09:42] <mhb> finally :o)
[09:54] <Riddell> seele: awake?
[10:42] <larsivi> kde4-desktop didn't work very well ...
[10:43] <larsivi> and how to roll back the install of all kubuntu-kde4-desktop packages ?
[10:43] <mhb> larsivi: try removing the kde4 libraries, all will go with it
[10:44] <larsivi> or at least, how can I have alt+f2 work again in kde3 :P
[10:47] <larsivi> the main problem with kde4 (after my 5 min session) is that it totally ignores my X settings, trying to fit the desktop into the size of my laptop (lvds) screen onto my external flat panel
[10:47] <larsivi> this is something that is handled out of the box in kde3
[10:47] <larsivi> also system settings in kde4 appear to be able to rectify this, but "apply" is greyed out
[10:48] <larsivi> also there were no background for kdm
[10:48] <larsivi> *Was
[10:53] <mhb> larsivi: you know what to do (file bugs)
[10:53] <jussi01> mhb: do you know if there is a how-to-rollback kde4 page somewhere?
[10:54] <mhb> don't know of one
[10:54]  * jussi01 would like to add a factoid, as it gets asked often by beginners who think -  yeah, lets get te latest and greatest kde!
[10:54] <larsivi> mhb: I did - for kde3 ;) back when xorg came with xrandr 1.2 - seems to be the exact same issue
[10:54] <mhb> it might be good, but only for hardy - intrepid probbly won't have a KDE3 desktop anyway
[10:55] <jussi01> mhb: true
[10:55] <Nightrose> larsivi: i will fix the backgroud issue as soon as the new qt4 packages are build
[10:55] <Nightrose> it is on my lost
[10:55] <Nightrose> the greyed out apply button is a upstream problem: not yet implemented
[10:56] <Nightrose> *list
[10:56] <larsivi> Nightrose: right
[10:58] <jussi01> mhb: would you be able to tell me fairly secifically, what the "recomended" way to remove kde4 would be? I think Ill go write that page - or at least a how to on the forums.
[10:58] <jussi01> specifically*
[10:59] <larsivi> I did remove the kde4-libraries, and got a slew of other packages with it - seems like about 20+ were not uninstalled by that though
[11:00] <mhb> jussi01: hmm, I haven't done that, but I guess removing the most basic kde4libs would remove all the packages.
[11:00] <mhb> the packagers might know more, I'm just a newbie when it comes to how the packages are named
[11:04] <jussi01> mmm...
[11:05] <jussi01> Ill corner apachelogger or someone when they come in. (or Riddell ;D )
[11:05] <awen-> larsivi: if you installed the kubuntu-kde4-desktop metapackage ... just remove that package again and do a apt-get autoremove
[11:06] <awen-> that will remove most of it at least
[11:16] <seele> Riddell: sorry.. i was up too late working
[11:17] <mhb> seele: indeed :o)
[11:18] <seele> mhb: hey now.. i really was!
[11:18] <Riddell> seele: phew, just so long as you weren't lying in a drunken stupor somewhere :)
[11:18] <seele> Riddell: hehe, dont worry
[11:20] <mhb> seele: I know you were, it had to be really too late
[11:22] <seele> mhb: it was only 7PM my time, so it was pretty easy to stay up
[11:24] <mhb> ah
[11:27] <mornfall> yuriy: When you get up, could you pull changes in adept and try it out?
[11:28] <mornfall> I still don't have visualisation of the .desktop files, but if you run it as ".../adept installer", you'll get a group list like in old installer.
[11:29] <mornfall> yuriy: I just use normal package view for now inside.
[11:29] <mornfall> yuriy: (The search starts when you hit enter, and it's case sensitive and only looks in short descriptions... that needs fixing, too...)
[11:29] <mornfall> yuriy: But would be nice if you could give it a go.
[11:41] <larsivi> awen-: ah, thanks
[11:50] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: ping
[11:50]  * Artemis_Fowl will pong seele when he finishes his lunch :)
[11:58] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: pong
[12:00] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: ah damn.. it's lunchtime for us now though :)
[12:09] <seele> Riddell: printing-architecture@lists.linux-foundation.org
[13:00] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: ping
[13:01] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: pong
[13:01] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: mhb was interested in seeing your latest version of the GRUB editor, but your ppa hasn't been updated
[13:01] <Artemis_Fowl> ppa?
[13:01] <flaccid> there is a grub editor?
[13:01]  * flaccid would love to check that out
[13:02] <Jucato> flaccid: you're quite late
[13:02] <flaccid> late at what sorry
[13:02] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: you meant SVN?
[13:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: where are you now ?
[13:02] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: personal packaging?  i thought that is where he got it but maybe not
[13:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: anything interesting for us ?
[13:03] <Riddell> Tonio_: main talks
[13:03] <Riddell> Tonio_: mobile talk now, jockey in 30 mins
[13:03] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: he compiled from SVN. we spoke in the morning and the issue was resolved. he failed to properly install it
[13:03] <Artemis_Fowl> but he fixed it eventually
[13:04] <seele> ok cool
[13:04] <Jucato> flaccid: late at the news :)
[13:04] <Artemis_Fowl> flaccid: http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/myfiles?folder_id=87243 take a look at the more recent screenshots
[13:04] <flaccid> i always am br0 :)
[13:04] <Artemis_Fowl> flaccid: (recent = higher screenshot number)
[13:05] <Jucato> class KGrubEditor : publick QGrubEditor
[13:05] <Jucato> >:)
[13:05] <flaccid> oh i have to register with hotlink
[13:05] <Artemis_Fowl> flaccid: my mistake
[13:05] <Artemis_Fowl> flaccid: one minute
[13:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum, oki ;)
[13:05] <Tonio_> jokey's interesting, I'll be there
[13:05] <Jucato> oooh Tonio_'s here :)
[13:06] <Tonio_> hey Jucato
[13:06] <jdavies> Tonio_: nice cloak
[13:06] <Tonio_> Jucato: sorry for not beeing there recently, but I went through hudge personal problems
[13:06] <Tonio_> ;)
[13:06] <Jucato> Tonio_: no problem. I wasn't around much either hahaha :)
[13:06] <Jucato> and looks like nixternal won't be around much once he gets his job :(
[13:06] <Jucato> jdavies: nice nick
[13:07] <Artemis_Fowl> flaccid: latest screenshots: http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/browse/artemisfowl2007/87243_tA4In/page3
[13:07] <flaccid> ah thanks
[13:07] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: did you need anything else?
[13:08] <flaccid> hmmmmm nice... if it works then its a milestone!
[13:08] <Artemis_Fowl> flaccid: it does :)
[13:08] <jdavies> Jucato: comes with no extra charge
[13:10] <flaccid> well full kudos to yourself and/or other devs...
[13:10] <flaccid> it truly is something that users have needed for years
[13:11] <Jucato> flaccid: it's a "port" of Artemis' QGrubEditor (in kde-apps.org)
[13:12] <flaccid> ah rightio
[13:12] <flaccid> there are only a few guis for admin that are left that are needed
[13:13] <flaccid> i guess the main one is sufficient dual display
[13:13] <Jucato> has been working on it for months afaik, then seele helped with the usability aspects :)
[13:13] <flaccid> the problem there is not the gui but the other variables
[13:13] <flaccid> working on what sorry jucy
[13:13]  * Jucato finds displays, X, and specially dual/twin head setups very dodgy
[13:13] <Jucato> oh.. I meant to say "he has been working..."
[13:14] <flaccid> working on grub editor?
[13:14] <Jucato> well at least on porting it to KDE 4
[13:14] <flaccid> yeah the restricted drivers support for randr is the main problem i guess
[13:14] <flaccid> coolio
[13:14] <Jucato> afaik qgrubeditor has been around a bit longer
[13:15] <flaccid> ah ok
[13:16] <flaccid> true i guess i didn't come across it
[13:16] <Jucato> (me too :P)
[13:17] <flaccid> ya. like if the file sharing snap in is made sufficient and then dual display. then i reckon most of the desktop wants are covered
[13:22] <Riddell> Tonio_: jockey up
[13:23] <Tonio_> Riddell: oki
[14:49]  * yuriy is curious about the results of the kde4 porting meeting
[14:53] <Riddell> yuriy: mostly a list of things that need worked on, I'll write it up later today
[14:53] <yuriy> oh, is there another meeting for what to do with kde3?
[14:53] <Nightrose> who were the people who wanted to work on nightly kde builds?
[14:56] <Riddell> mm, don't know if anyone has voluntered for nightly build
[14:56] <Riddell> yuriy: that was kubuntu-version, which has a politely retire policy
[14:57] <Nightrose> Riddell: there were a few pople interested and right now we are talking about using neon to do it
[14:57] <Nightrose> 2 people are in so far
[15:54] <Riddell> proofreaders, yuriy: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuIntrepidVersion
[15:58] <nixternal> Riddell: looks good, except for "Our marketing will follow that this release is an upgrade for those who want the latest news release, but may not be suitable for those who do not want to put up with some rough edges."
[15:58] <nixternal> that is bad marketing
[16:03] <Riddell> nixternal: got a more subtle wording?  there will still be regressions with KDE 4.1
[16:09] <xerosis> Riddell: "want the latest news release" s/news/new?
[16:10] <Riddell> xerosis: fixed, thanks
[16:14] <nixternal> even with "regressions" we shouldn't hilight them in marketing honestly
[16:16] <nixternal> ooh, glad I didn't register for Ubuntu Live...looks like it is cancelled
[16:20] <Riddell> nixternal: where's that announced?
[16:20] <nixternal> hasn't been announced, but they sent emails out to the speakers telling them it is cancelled
[16:21] <Riddell> nixternal: you were a speaker?
[16:21] <nixternal> don't know if you read ubuntu users planet or not...that is where I have seen it thus far..and someone asked just a bit ago in #ubuntu-devel
[16:21] <nixternal> Riddell: no
[16:27] <Riddell> right
[16:27] <seele> cancelled?
[16:28] <seele> hum.. isn't it part of linux world or something?
[16:28] <nixternal> oscon
[16:28] <seele> right
[16:28] <Riddell> some talks will be moved to oscon
[16:29] <seele> maybe oscon didn't have enough talk submissions?
[16:29] <Riddell> yes.  I expect that'll be it.  :)
[16:30] <seele> weird.. i dont remember a cfp extension or anything
[16:37] <Riddell> seele: seen Tonio?
[16:39] <seele> Riddell: he went up to his room after the lightening talks :-/
[16:40] <Riddell> ooh la la
[16:42] <Hobbsee> seele: did he look grey?
[16:42] <Hobbsee> (again)
[16:42] <seele> grey?
[16:42] <seele> pallid?
[16:42] <Jucato> Gnome?
[16:42] <Hobbsee> we found he vanished in sevilla for a while, because he caught the conference flu.
[16:42] <Jucato> oh wait, that's brown
[16:43] <seele> Hobbsee: ah no, but it is something else
[16:43] <seele> blue maybe, not grey
[16:43] <Hobbsee> ah
[16:43] <Jucato> green?
[16:44] <Jucato> hi Hobbsee  btw :P
[16:44] <Jucato> and seele  of course :)
[16:44]  * seele waves.
[16:44] <Hobbsee> heya!
[16:45] <Jucato> Hobbsee: shouldn't you be asleep?
[16:45] <Hobbsee> Jucato: er, yes
[16:53] <Riddell> Hobbsee: what's that mailman admin script you use?
[16:53] <Hobbsee> Riddell: listadmin.
[16:54] <Riddell> seele: going on this tour?
[16:54] <ScottK-uds> Riddell: I'm planning on coming.
[16:54] <seele> Riddell: maybe.. i'll be down in 5 minutes to see if they are still going
[16:55] <Riddell> groovy, if this wiki page ever saves I'll be able to go and put my laptop away
[16:55] <seele> Riddell: where you be?
[16:55] <Riddell> seele: the foyer is the meeting area
[16:56] <seele> is that on 3 or ground?
[16:59] <Riddell> ground
[16:59] <Riddell> critiques, proofreaders: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuIntrepidKDE4Porting
[17:00]  * yuriy reading
[17:00] <moope1> hi yall,
[17:01] <moope1> I have installed adobe reader and have xpdf but none of them have registered with firefox 3 that they can open pdfs
[17:01] <moope1> a) how do I fix
[17:01] <moope1> and b) can you fix
[17:02]  * seele heads downstairs
[17:03] <moope1> c) is this your problem?
[17:04] <yuriy> moope1: #kubuntu for support please
[17:04] <yuriy> Riddell: we're using PackageKit AND Adept?
[17:04] <yuriy> is Ubuntu moving to PackageKit then?
[17:04] <Jucato> ooh that's going to be painful :)
[17:05] <moope1> yuriy: I know, I was just a little annoyed that it didnt do it out of the tin, I was hoping to understand why, hence you guys
[17:05] <mornfall> yuriy: Hi.
[17:05] <mornfall> yuriy: Howdy?
[17:05] <yuriy> hi mornfall. doing well how are you?
[17:05] <mornfall> Have you seen my message from (your) early morning?
[17:05] <yuriy> i haven't had a chance to try the changes yet, but yes i read the messages
[17:05] <mornfall> Ok.
[17:05] <mornfall> I'm studying for exams. :).
[17:06] <yuriy> mornfall: if you have a minute, I've been meaning to bounce an idea off you
[17:13] <yuriy> Riddell: so do we know that pardus's tools are ported to KDE4?
[17:16] <jussi01> !info packagekit
[17:19] <mornfall> yuriy: Go on.
[17:24] <yuriy> mornfall: what do you think of a Strigi based package index?
[17:31] <yuriy> with the idea being that you have the package manager application, but then you can also have neat little features like say you search for firefox in kickoff and you don't have it installed, it can show up anyway with the option to install. or something similar with whatever desktop search interface ends up in kde4
[17:40] <mornfall> yuriy: We have tossed that idea at fosscamp, actually.
[17:41] <mornfall> yuriy: Jos (of Strigi) promised he'll take a look, IIRC. It should be possible to plug the xapian index into strigi in fact.
[17:41] <mornfall> yuriy: So we don't have to go through strigi in adept at all, just those that use strigi could see the data.
[17:42] <mornfall> yuriy: And then maybe call adept if they want to do something about it...
[17:42] <mornfall> (Through some clever mimeptype hacking.)
[17:48] <yuriy> oh good. i'm not crazy
[17:48] <yuriy> but I was thinking instead of xapian
[17:48] <yuriy> originally I thought of it because it seemed strange to me to use another indexing system for adept when we have strigi in KDE
[17:52] <jussi01> can someone breifly explain package kit to me? (if you have min)
[17:55] <yuriy> jussi01: http://www.packagekit.org/pk-intro.html
[17:57] <mornfall> yuriy: But you see, the xapian index is used by other tools as well and is outside of adept, really.
[17:57] <mornfall> yuriy: So in fact, *not* using that one is duplicating effort.
[17:58] <mornfall> (We would have two indices of the same data.)
[17:58] <mornfall> Reading the xapian one in strigi would really be the best solution, IMHO.
[17:58] <yuriy> mornfall: what other tools use the xapian index?
[17:58] <yuriy> the package wasn't even in Ubuntu before at all
[17:59] <mornfall> At least goplay and ept-cache do.
[17:59] <yuriy> !info goplay
[17:59] <jussi01> yuriy: thanks
[18:00] <jussi01> mornfall: btw, will there be a new version of adept in your repo soon?
[18:00] <mornfall> jussi01: What would soon mean? :)
[18:00] <mornfall> I need to fix some bugs and then maybe alpha5 would be due.
[18:00] <jussi01> mornfall: soon... :P
[18:00] <mornfall> But I'm not sure when I will have time to fix those.
[18:01] <yuriy> i forgot to bring my power cord so i'm not going to be able to test adept [your] today
[18:03] <mornfall> No problem, I won't really have much time for anything this week. And next week I'm in Berlin, when I'll hopefully have *some* hacking time, but not much of it can go to Adept, either.
[18:04] <jussi01> mornfall: nice either way. I still cant get it to start/work :/
[18:06] <mornfall> jussi01: Ah, you didn't follow instructions, since I gave you only deb-line.
[18:06] <mornfall> jussi01: Run sudo update-apt-xapian-index and try again.
[18:06] <jussi01> aaaaahhhhh
[18:11] <jussi01> mornfall: ok, I dod that, then what? I still dont have an adept_manager, although adept-manager is installed and up to date???
[18:12] <mornfall> jussi01: dpkg -L adept-manager, please
[18:14] <jussi01> mornfall: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13522/
[18:14] <mornfall> jussi01: /usr/lib/kde4/bin/adept_manager
[18:15] <mornfall> jussi01: Run that, through [kde]sudo.
[18:16] <jussi01> heh... now you make me feel stupid
[18:20] <mornfall> Pff : - ).
[18:20] <mornfall> No worry.
[18:20] <mornfall> Anyway, --> home.
[18:20] <mornfall> Laters.
[18:20] <jussi01> see you
[18:21] <mooper> Hi, I just selected a load of pictures and chose compress. It kicked off a process for each picture making many archives with one file in each.
[18:21] <mooper> rather unexpected and annoying
[18:24] <smarter> mooper: what file browser did you use? (konqueror3/dolphin3/konqueror4/dolphin4)
[18:24] <mooper> smarter: dolphin
[18:25] <mooper> dolphin3
[18:25] <mooper> or rather dolphin 0.9.2
[18:25] <mooper> fixed in 4?
[18:28] <smarter> don't know, I'm testing right now
[18:29] <mooper> smarter, also zip files with weird filenames get created
[18:30] <mooper> ziD3FW5w and zigbeRn9
[18:34] <smarter> it works with konqueror, but I can't figure what .desktop file it's using
[18:39] <mooper> How come the default was switched to dolphin?
[18:39] <smarter> cause it's easier and stuff like that
[18:40] <mooper> sure, I think its a bit better
[18:40] <mooper> so should I file a bug thingy?
[18:42] <smarter> yep
[18:43] <jussi01> !bug | mooper
[18:52] <mooper> smarter, jussi01
[18:52] <mooper> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dolphin/+bug/185795
[18:52] <jussi01> :)
[18:56] <mooper> Was already there
[19:01] <awen-> ScottK: I'm preparing an update to kde-guidance to upload to intrepid ... but at least som of the changes is SRU material, but I'm wondering how much is reasonable to go in: http://awen.dk/packages/changelog ... the kubuntu_32_ patch at least, but what else?
[19:37] <daskReech> seele: ping
[19:37] <daskReech> Nightrose: ping
[19:37] <Nightrose> daskReech: pong
[19:38] <Nightrose> how  can I help you today? ;-)
[19:39] <daskReech> Hugs!
[19:39] <daskReech> Naw I'm kidding
[19:39] <Nightrose> \o/
[19:39]  * Nightrose hugs daskReech 
[19:39] <daskReech>  today isn't hugsday
[19:39] <Nightrose> not?
[19:39] <Nightrose> damn
[19:39]  * daskReech stores up hugs :)
[19:39] <Nightrose> ;-)
[19:39] <daskReech> Fine I'll pay ya back with interest
[19:40] <Nightrose> haha
[19:40] <daskReech> You mentioned in your blog about having a note to file bugs upstream
[19:40] <daskReech>  how would that work?
[19:40] <Nightrose> hmmm that was just some random brainstorming but what i thought of was:
[19:41] <Nightrose> ask the reporter if what he is reporting is a wish or a real bug
[19:42] <Nightrose> if he says it is a wish you would ask him if it is maybe better filed in the upstream bugtracker at >link> since they are the people who really develop features
[19:42] <Nightrose> i it is a ubuntu specific wish or he/she is not sure it could still be filed in launchpad
[19:42] <Nightrose> *if
[19:44] <Nightrose> maybe with a nice note explaining the difference between the distro and upstream projects
[19:45] <Nightrose> there might be better ways but that was what I came up with in the train ;-)
[19:45] <daskReech> Yeah but.. there are a >lot< of upstream
[19:45] <daskReech> is this directly related to Kubuntu ?
[19:45] <Nightrose> we already know the upstream bugracker for a lot of projects
[19:45] <daskReech> so if it's a Kubutnu wish then pop to KDE or handle here?
[19:45] <Nightrose> yea
[19:46] <Nightrose> as I wrote in my blog I have no idea if the whole problem is specific to ubuntu
[19:46] <Nightrose> it is just the only distro i actiely triage bugs for
[19:47] <Nightrose> +v
[19:47] <daskReech> so it would be more or less what are you here to report about ? *check to see if we have a upstream link for that* Why are you reporting? *check to see if it makes sense to interrupt* -- *inform the user* Ok please continue
[19:47] <Nightrose> right
[19:47] <daskReech> icky :)
[19:47] <Nightrose> ;-)
[19:47] <daskReech> I hate website wizards
[19:47] <Nightrose> hehe
[19:48] <daskReech> esp if you are someone who files a lot of bugs
[19:48] <daskReech> lots of waiting for redundant loading
[19:48]  * Nightrose just set up irssi-notifier
[19:48] <Nightrose> love it
[19:48] <daskReech> Though I guess You can have a (I know I know damnit!) button
[19:48] <Nightrose> daskReech: yea that is a problem - but we have a wizard already anyway
[19:49] <Nightrose> haha right
[19:49] <daskReech> Man I so underutilize irssi
[19:49] <Nightrose> :P
[19:49] <daskReech> I basically use it to connect
[19:50] <daskReech> How do i get irssi to notify me if someone says my name
[19:50] <daskReech> right now it only does it if the sentence starts with my name
[19:50] <daskReech> that and people keep calling me das instead of daskReech >_o
[19:50] <Nightrose>  /hilight
[19:51] <Nightrose> and /help hilight
[19:51] <daskReech> I've gotten that far :)
[19:51] <Nightrose> ;-)
[19:52] <daskReech> I dunno though should there be a wiki page that explains upstream vs nowstream ?
[19:52] <daskReech> then we could justlink to that
[19:52] <daskReech> Imagine. A wiki page that works across Ubuntu releases and isn't obsolete in 4 months :)
[19:52] <Nightrose> hmm i doubt a lot of people would read that
[19:52] <Nightrose> haha
[19:53] <Nightrose> it has to be a short note on the bug report page
[19:53] <Nightrose> otherwise noone will read it
[19:53] <Nightrose> some don't even read those
[19:55] <Nightrose> daskReech: http://blog.ufsoft.org/2007/05/10/irssi-notification if you want to give it a try
[19:56] <daskReech> yeh I guess
[20:13] <awen-> ScottK: the package for intrepid is here, when you have time to look at it: http://awen.dk/packages/kde-guidance_0.8.0svn20080103-0ubuntu18.debdiff
[20:22] <daskReech> What was the Bug Number Zero UDS talk for?
[20:23] <daskReech> and how did Firefox ->kde integration go ?
[20:25] <daskReech> Spel Chockers
[20:25] <daskReech> Ha ha ha
[20:26] <nixternal> man, you want to see a great talk that includes some funniness about spell checkers, you gotta see mako's talk on errors...great stuff
[20:26] <daskReech> where is it?
[20:30] <nixternal> haven't seen it online, just live and in person
[20:31] <daskReech> you mean in persin
[20:31] <daskReech> clearly
[20:31] <nixternal> hehe
[21:51] <mhb> so, wish me luck tomorrow, and please choose good people for the Kubuntu Council
[21:52] <mhb> see you!
[21:55] <daskReech> :-)
[21:58] <jdavies> mhb: where are you going?
[22:01] <mhb> jdavies: take a guess
[22:02] <mhb> jdavies: what could be important enough that I have to skip a conference that is very relevant to me?
[22:02] <jdavies> mhb: exams? Seems to be the rage
[22:02] <mhb> jdavies: right!
[22:02] <jdavies> yeah, I have the same
[22:02] <mhb> I've had one today and more is to come tomorrow.
[22:02] <jdavies> and so does everyone else appartently
[22:37] <nosrednaekim> hey....what am I signed up for this session.... that I apparently didn't attend
[22:37] <nosrednaekim> at 12
[22:40] <nixternal> Jucato: I just showed my x the picture of Jorge and I...she is dying right now :)
[22:43] <nosrednaekim> how do use the SIP stuff?
[22:44] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: I use Twinkle
[22:44] <ScottK-uds> nosrednaekim: Don't worry.  We assigned you all the actions.
[22:45] <nixternal> fairly straight forward if you want to use it for the VoIP sessions at UDS
[22:45] <nosrednaekim> ScottK-uds: crap... I don't know what that means but it sounds bad :P
[22:45] <nosrednaekim> yeah... thats what I meant nixternal
[22:46] <ScottK-uds> nosrednaekim: It's fine.  We talked about what we are going to do for Intrepid, not who would do it....
[22:46] <nosrednaekim> oh :)
[22:47] <nixternal> ScottK-uds: what was the outcome of the staggering release stuff with Kubuntu?
[22:47] <nixternal> please say rejected
[22:47] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: should I do direct IP to IP connection in twinkle?
[22:47]  * nixternal clicks heels and mumbles "there's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home!"
[22:48] <nosrednaekim> ScottK-uds: ahhh wonderful :)
[22:48] <ScottK-uds> nixternal: We ain't doing it.
[22:48] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: I think that is right
[22:48] <nixternal> rock on!
[22:48] <ScottK-uds> nixternal: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuReleaseSchedule
[22:49] <seele> not doing what?
[22:49] <Riddell> evening all
[22:49] <seele> (i guess i could look at the wiki page :P)
[22:49] <nosrednaekim> hello Riddell
[22:51] <seele> ah ok.. nothing different from the other discussion
[22:51] <ScottK-uds> seele: Not moving off of the Ubuntu release schedule.
[22:51] <seele> ScottK-uds: right
[22:52] <seele> hmm.. i wonder if room service has sweets
[22:52] <ScottK-uds> For the right price I'm sure they have any kind of sweets you are after.
[22:54] <Riddell> I have Porridge bars
[22:55] <nixternal> I have another broken computer
[22:55] <nixternal> note to self: quit buying the cheap stuff
[22:55] <Nightrose> Riddell: http://blog.lydiapintscher.de/2008/05/20/get-your-free-on/ ;-)
[22:55] <daskReech> asterix does SIP ?
[22:55] <daskReech> whats a fairly light weight sip server?
[22:56] <nosrednaekim> eh... I'll jst Ice cast and if I ave something to say... I'll type it here :P
[22:56] <Riddell> daskReech: asterix is SIP to many extents
[22:57] <seele> Riddell: wth are Porridge bars?
[22:57] <seele> Riddell: like rolled oats?  granola bars?
[22:57] <Riddell> seele: porridge but less sloppy
[22:57]  * Nightrose is sure seele doesn't really want to know ;-)
[22:58] <nixternal> I think so
[22:58] <seele> Riddell: like tapioca?
[22:58] <nixternal> like grits?
[22:58] <nixternal> ;p
[22:58] <nosrednaekim> porrige? isn't that made from beans?
[22:58] <Riddell> they're very nice, my cousin makes them
[22:58]  * seele isn't even sure what Riddell means by "porridge".  He comes from a country that calls anything sweet "pudding".
[22:58] <nixternal> hahahahahaha
[22:58] <Nightrose> *lol*
[22:58] <seele> Riddell: unless they're chocolate flavored, I might have to pass
[22:58]  * daskReech should learn to setup asterisk
[22:58] <Riddell> seele: there is a white chocolate one
[22:58] <nixternal> daskReech: asterisk is the biggest pita to setup
[22:58] <Riddell> it's still mostly porridge
[22:58] <daskReech> I know
[22:59] <daskReech>  that's why I shoudl start now
[22:59] <Riddell> http://www.stoatsporridgebars.co.uk/  we get all the spare boxes of them for lending him a warehouse
[22:59] <daskReech> Probably by starting an Ubuntu Distro that makes it easy :-P
[22:59] <nixternal> daskReech: asterisk is only good if you had the right hardware as well..it is really for a phone system
[23:00] <nosrednaekim> daskReech: I know a guy from the US-NJ Loco that does it for his job...
[23:00] <daskReech> Yeah I know
[23:00] <daskReech>  I need a phone system
[23:00] <nixternal> freeswitch
[23:00] <daskReech> nosrednaekim: Makes new Ubuntu distros? :-D
[23:00] <Riddell> I wonder what we have tomorrow
[23:00] <nosrednaekim> daskReech: sets up asterisk
[23:00] <nosrednaekim> :P
[23:01] <Riddell> Kubuntu Council!  (although we mostly covered that in the pub tonight)
[23:01] <daskReech> damn I should find the person who's job it is to make new distros and hit them
[23:01] <seele> hmm.. i can't tell if it is supposed to be crunchy or soft
[23:01] <daskReech> as a fully aside
[23:01] <nixternal> Riddell: what was the drunken outcome of the Kubuntu Council?
[23:01] <Riddell> seele: soft
[23:01]  * daskReech grabs seele while he's uncomatose
[23:01] <Riddell> nixternal: we're going to appoint jeff waugh as council member
[23:01] <nixternal> hahahahahfda08320803~~
[23:01] <Riddell> he did name the distro after all
[23:01]  * nixternal just wet himself a little
[23:02] <Riddell> "Kubuntu File Sharing" easy peasy
[23:02] <daskReech> Yeah :)
[23:02] <nosrednaekim> how hard is it to name "kubuntu"?
[23:02] <nosrednaekim> :P
[23:02] <nixternal> Riddell: is the plan to replace all current members of the council with fresh blood?
[23:02]  * seele blinks at nixternal 
[23:02] <daskReech> spel chockers is still my favourite
[23:03] <daskReech> nosrednaekim: well there is a #ubuntu-kde chan
[23:03] <nosrednaekim> for people running gnome to ask other gnomies about their KDE app problems without getting ridiculed by eather side of the arms race :P
[23:04] <seele> Riddell: that session is only useful if Tony shows up
[23:04] <Riddell> seele: i agree
[23:04] <seele> Riddell: did he ever return your SMS?
[23:04] <Riddell> nixternal: well that's what we'd discuss.  last time we did half
[23:04] <Riddell> seele: no
[23:04] <seele> hmm
[23:04] <nixternal> groovy
[23:05] <daskReech> Who's sitting in the firefox ->KDE talk ?
[23:05] <Riddell> me, mhb
[23:05] <Riddell> asac should be writing it up
[23:06] <Riddell> Nightrose: may want to mention that marble is just about to start integraing openstreetmap
[23:06] <Riddell> integrating
[23:06] <Nightrose> Riddell: feel free to comment ;-)
[23:06] <seele> daskReech: hmm?
[23:07] <nosrednaekim> when is the firefox-kde talk?
[23:07]  * Nightrose gets some tea
[23:07] <Riddell> yesterday
[23:07] <daskReech> seele: talk to you a bit?
[23:07] <seele> daskReech: ok
[23:07] <seele> mm.. tea
[23:07] <seele> that's what i miss
[23:07] <seele> my teabox and electirc teapot
[23:07] <seele> stupid hotel
[23:08] <Riddell> seele: there should be a kettle in your room
[23:08] <daskReech> seele: what do you think of tabs in System settings?
[23:08] <seele> Riddell: with tea bags!  who drinks tea made of powdered dirt and paper bags?
[23:08] <seele> daskReech: necessary unless you have a better idea
[23:08] <seele> daskReech: and when you say tabs, you mean tabs and not pages, correct?
[23:09] <daskReech> seele: you know the categorized view in Dolphin?
[23:09] <Riddell> seele: there's an alternative?
[23:09] <seele> Riddell: loose tea? vinyl bags? no bag?
[23:09] <seele> Riddell: i thought you came from the land of tea time
[23:10] <daskReech> :-)
[23:10] <seele> daskReech: i'm not sure i know what you mean
[23:10] <Riddell> I come from Scotland, we drink Irn Bru.  In England they use tea bags
[23:10] <nosrednaekim> AH! the one session I want to attend I have to go to a softball game.
[23:10] <daskReech> seele: the one with the lines that run across the view so you can break the view up by alphabet or time or file type etc
[23:11] <seele> Riddell: you drink Irn Bru at tea time?  that cant taste good with biscuit's and jam
[23:11] <seele> daskReech: details view you mean with the data in the table format?
[23:11] <nixternal> I had some Irn Bru last night...definitely and acquired taste
[23:12] <nixternal> s/and/an
[23:12] <seele> nixternal: yeah really.  and people give us a hard time about coca cola
[23:12] <Riddell> nixternal: where did you get it from?
[23:12] <daskReech> seele: yep
[23:13] <seele> daskReech: ok.. how does tabs fit in to this?
[23:13] <nixternal> Riddell: well, I found out we can get it at one of two places...we have a liquor store that will get it for us, or my new neighbors who just moved here from scottland
[23:13] <nixternal> they brought over a ton of it
[23:14] <Riddell> jcastro: what happened to the phone charger that was in our room?  you must have unplugged it to plug in your laptop but I don't see it now
[23:14] <nixternal> Riddell: you are rooming with jcastro?
[23:14] <Riddell> I am
[23:14] <nixternal> oh lord I feel for ya
[23:14] <daskReech> seele: the point of tabs in system settings is not to over whelm the user if I am not mistaken?
[23:14] <Riddell> don't say that!  or you'll never get UDS sponsorship approved in future
[23:15] <seele> daskReech: how does that relate to a file manager?
[23:15] <nixternal> oh, I know where he lives
[23:15] <nixternal> I will get it :)
[23:15] <daskReech> seele: Ok imagine if that detailed view weer collapasible
[23:15] <seele> daskReech: collapsable in what way?
[23:15] <daskReech> so you could see that a category were there but the files/items under it were not seen
[23:16] <daskReech> so for dolphin You could see there were files that start with X but not how many etc
[23:16] <daskReech> if you wanted to know more about those files you could expland
[23:16] <daskReech> expland
[23:16]  * daskReech sighs
[23:16] <daskReech>  expand
[23:16] <daskReech> same concept for file types
[23:16] <seele> ok.. and how would people use this?
[23:17] <daskReech> In this dir there are media files Image files text files and executables
[23:17] <daskReech> now if we had that in System settings it could open with the categories and then a person could easily expand the one they are interested in
[23:18] <daskReech> so they don't have to deal with tabs It wouldn't be ovewhelming and it wouldn't scroll forever
[23:18] <seele> i dont understand
[23:18] <nixternal> Riddell: throw all of those Gnome t-shirts that are probably all over your room out the window :)
[23:18] <daskReech> where are you un-understood ?
[23:19] <nixternal> Riddell: is he wearing his green foot + heart t-shirt every day?
[23:19] <Riddell> nixternal: not so far
[23:19] <seele> daskReech: first off, i didnt realise system settings was so big that you have to scroll besides maybe one line of icons that might not show up in a small window
[23:19] <seele> daskReech: and what do you mean by hiding.. the existing categories that we have?
[23:19] <nixternal> well, when he goes to sleep, whisper in his ear "Kubuntu is the greatest....love Kubuntu forever...make Kubuntu prosper" over and over
[23:20] <nosrednaekim> lol nixternal
[23:20] <daskReech> seele: not hiding the categories just the individual icons under them
[23:20] <Riddell> nixternal: go to sleep. good idea
[23:20]  * Riddell snoozes
[23:20] <nixternal> NOOOOO! he will whisper sweet nothings in your ear if you pass out first!!!!
[23:20] <seele> hey wait.. what about my porridge bar
[23:20] <daskReech> :-)
[23:21] <daskReech> and seele will whisper harsh somethings
[23:21] <seele> daskReech: there arent that many icons in the window to start with, i didnt realise there were too many
[23:21] <seele> daskReech: hey.. i'm the masochist, not the sadist
[23:21] <Riddell> seele: come up quick and get it :)
[23:21] <seele> Riddell: what room are you in
[23:21] <Riddell> 704
[23:21] <daskReech> seele: well what's the point of advanced tabs?
[23:21] <daskReech> seele: when you get back :)
[23:21] <seele> daskReech: hold on.. getting foods
[23:22] <nosrednaekim> ah... I now know where you live seele :) ..... for the next 3 days at least
[23:22] <Riddell> daskReech: I don't see categories view in dolphin
[23:24] <daskReech> Riddell: click show in groups
[23:26] <daskReech> Riddell: ^1  -> view -> show in groups
[23:30] <ScottK-uds> It would be way cooler with wobbly windows.
[23:31] <daskReech> ScottK-uds: what would?
[23:32] <ScottK-uds> The system settings.
[23:33] <Riddell> daskReech: View menu -> Sort by -> Group ?
[23:33] <daskReech> Riddell: noooo
[23:33] <daskReech> view menu -> Show in groups
[23:33] <Riddell> daskReech: oh, I see it
[23:34] <daskReech> I wanna hear the logic behind the advanced and general tabs first
[23:34] <seele> wow.. so this porridge bar is..
[23:34] <seele> is..
[23:34] <Riddell> delicious?
[23:34] <seele> well, let's just say that white chocolate goes with macadamia nuts, not hazelnuts
[23:34] <seele> but besides that, it's not too bad
[23:35] <Riddell> a kind gift to a grateful soul?
[23:35]  * daskReech gets a glazed eye look thinking about macadamia nuts
[23:35] <seele> Riddell: beggars can't be choosey
[23:35] <Riddell> daskReech: I don't see any expand though
[23:35] <daskReech> Riddell: That's what I'm saying
[23:35] <nixternal> send me one of those porridge bars..I want a taste :)
[23:36] <daskReech> if they could collapse would that be a good fit for system settings?
[23:36] <daskReech> It would eliminate the tabs and not be scary for people
[23:36] <Riddell> mm, could be
[23:36] <daskReech> Though honestly System settigns needs much more clean up
[23:36] <nixternal> I say we go back to KControl :p
[23:36] <daskReech> but this could get rid of the tabs annoyance
[23:36] <daskReech> nixternal: No issues
[23:36] <nixternal> I heard that is Riddell's favorite!
[23:37] <daskReech> nixternal: Code it
[23:37] <Riddell> well quite, we've solved the main issues with the parent app, the modules need the love now
[23:37] <Riddell> nixternal: grrr
[23:37] <nixternal> hahahaha
[23:37] <daskReech> yeah I heard that we have keyboard in system settings now
[23:37] <daskReech> !! :-)
[23:37] <yuriy> since when are the tabs an annoyance?
[23:37] <daskReech> Though I'll bet alt+Bck still doesn't work
[23:37] <yuriy> though i did prefer the original buttons versino
[23:38] <Riddell> yuriy: the buttons confused a lot of people
[23:38] <seele> Riddell: because they were buttons.. not tabs
[23:38] <daskReech> yuriy: I think they would be slightly less so if things like search would pulll the views together instead of removing all the icons but having a note that there are 2 hits in advanced
[23:38] <Riddell> anyway, /me snoozes
[23:38] <seele> although it is still kindof hard to notice the tabs unless youre expecting them.
[23:38] <daskReech> seele: Sooo what' the mindset behind the tabs
[23:39] <seele> daskReech: to separate out the regular and advanced settings.  you'll have to ask Riddell more about it since it was a Paris UDS decision with Ellen
[23:39] <daskReech> Ah
[23:39] <seele> (i.e. i wasn't there)
[23:39]  * daskReech onders mailing ellen
[23:39] <daskReech> ++p
[23:39] <Riddell> there are a lot of kcontrol modules which are for very specialised usage and don't fit into a category other than "not used much"
[23:40] <daskReech> Like Wine?
[23:40] <Riddell> you can't get rid of them, because for people who do need them, it can make KDE a winner
[23:40] <Riddell> but most users don't need them, so best to keep them more out of the way
[23:40]  * daskReech nods
[23:41] <daskReech> And I suppose that those people can be taught to look in advanced
[23:41] <seele> or they will look for it
[23:41] <seele> or know to look for it
[23:41] <daskReech> I still haaaaate that the search doesn't pull together the views but leaves a note that you should look in advanced
[23:41] <seele> or notice something strange with the ui
[23:41] <daskReech> seele: that's a lot of or's
[23:41] <seele> daskReech: then that is a search problem, not a menu problem
[23:42] <daskReech> seele: so the tab organization is good an usable as it stands?
[23:43] <seele> daskReech: i havent given an alternative any thoughts so i'm not about to suggest changes
[23:43] <seele> daskReech: there are other problems with system settings i would rather see addressed than if the tab is working.  advanced users can troubleshoot and find it eventually
[23:43] <seele> and afaik i havent seen any bug reports or complaints about it yet
[23:43]  * seele notes that the "porridge bar" is quite filling
[23:43] <daskReech> seele: Oh yes of all the apps I've poked in KDE4 System settings is in my top three for needs to be looked at
[23:43] <seele> no wonder, it was 85 grams
[23:44] <daskReech> seele: Ok would it be possible to shoot me the list of stuff you want to see looked at?
[23:45] <seele> daskReech: are you going to fix it?
[23:45] <daskReech> Jucato was kind enough to clear a bunch of them off my mental anger platter from the changes in trunk :-)
[23:45] <daskReech> seele: I dunno. I'd have to think about it System settings is a funny app
[23:46] <daskReech> cause it can interact with a load of stuff outside of KDE
[23:46] <daskReech> and it's main job is to simplify and categorize
[23:47] <daskReech> It's still new so I just want to get a larger picture than stuff i see that bugs me
[23:48] <ScottK-uds> daskReech: One thing we discussed needed doing is looking up Guidance displayconfig, the KDE4 upstream Xrandr too, the Ubuntu Display Manager (or whatever they call it) and see what features the KDE4 tool is missing to bring it to feature parity with those systems (the goal being to be even with Ubuntu and make displayconfig die an early death.)
[23:48] <daskReech> :-D
[23:48]  * ScottK-uds looks around for a volunteer ...