/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/05/25/#bzr.txt

NyadHi. Some friends and I are looking at creating an opensource project, but we need a version control system which is easy to use and will work on either Sourceforge or the google code hosting thingy. We have narrowed our choices down to bazaar and SVK, is there any advice or extra info you can give that will help us come to a decision?00:30
lamalexSF and google code both use subversion00:36
lamalexyou could use bzr-svn to interface if you want00:36
lamalexor launchpad.net offers project hosting00:36
=== pickscrap1 is now known as pickscrape
Nyadbut launchpad.net isn't under GPL00:39
Nyadwhich would be easier to use? bzr-svn or SVK(which I think has a svn interface)00:40
Pieteris google code GPL'd?00:42
PilkyNyad: why does launchpad need to be under GPL?00:42
Nyadis it still free?00:42
Pilkyit's always been free afaik00:42
Nyadtnx00:43
lamalexNyad: launchpad's license doesn't affect your code's license00:44
lamalexyou can license your code however you want00:44
lamalexI think it does require and open license though00:44
Nyadwell we are opting for GPL or LGPL so that should be fine00:45
Pilkylamalex: I don't think it requires it, but the fact that your code will be online implies it00:45
lamalexPilky: not necessarily, it could restrict modification/redistribution00:45
Pilkytrue00:46
Nyadso it's actually possible to put your source up but say nobody is allowed to modify it or spread it? but then can't people just port it and make their own version from the source?00:48
Pieterno, that'd be modification00:48
Pieterwhich you disallowed00:48
Pieterso they'd be violating your licence :)00:49
Pilkyyeah, but in all fairness, how well do licences stand up in court00:49
Pieterclosed licences better than open :)00:49
Pilkybest way to prevent modification is to keep your source closed00:50
Nyadthanks00:53
=== RAOF_ is now known as RAOF
* dennda just created a bug report for that sftp issue02:00
denndahttps://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/234682 <-- Do you feel like there's anything missing?02:01
ubottuLaunchpad bug 234682 in bzr "bzr fails in combination with ssh" [Undecided,New]02:01
fullermdYour upgrade to 1.4, which includes a fix for that?   O:-}02:03
denndafullermd: Oh, it is fixed in 1.4?02:04
fullermdhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/21342502:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 213425 in bzr ""'SSHSubprocess' object has no attribute 'get_name'" with paramiko > 1.7.2" [High,Fix released]02:04
PengDoes using curl provide any benefit over urllib?02:04
fullermdYah.  Paramiko 1.7.2 and later changed somethingorother; 1.4 and later have the update.02:04
Pengbzrtools 0.91.0?!02:05
denndafullermd: When will 1.4 be released?02:05
fullermddennda: A month ago   :)02:05
denndaI don't want to use the old paramiko version through the cheeseshop02:05
denndaOh02:05
denndawhy isn't it in the repo yet :/02:05
PengApparently the Arch maintainers aren't big bzr users?02:05
fullermd1.5 was actually released a week ago...02:06
orphehi, i've got some questions about developping with bzr02:14
orphewhat would be the easiest way to work with bzr in ruby ...  i have seen some python wrapper for ruby so I would be able to import bzrlibs or to call system commands and parse the output from stdout .. or making a python application that makes xml or some others things that are easy to parse with bazaar as a backend02:17
beunoorphe, you do have an xml plugin for bzr02:30
orphebenuo : no but it would not be a problem to install... (such plugin exists) ?02:40
orphebeuno: no but it would not be a problem to install... (such plugin exists) ?02:41
beunoorphe, bzr-xmloutput02:43
beunoI use it for PHP, Verterok uses it for Java  :)02:43
orpheow man , that will be alot easier than I tought. Thank you! this is really something interesting.02:45
orphewith this i would still have to call bzr process but if I cache things until the repository is modified i would accelerate the process02:47
orphebeuno, thanks that's a really good thing.02:50
beunoorphe, no problem. Let me know if you need any more help on that, or if we can make your life easier with any feature02:53
beunothe project's on Launchpad, so feel free to open bugs02:53
orphebeuno, yes thank you again.02:57
* _moshez waves10:46
_mosheza friend of mine sent a q to the ml (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/bazaar/2008q2/042391.html ) but got no answer :(10:46
_moshezcan anyone take a look and see if there's help?10:46
lifelesshi _moshez10:47
lifelessI'm travelling atm10:47
_moshezlifeless: hello I squish your tummy10:49
liwlifeless, 0 hours!10:49
lifelessliw: excellent10:49
lifeless_moshez: hello, I am squished!10:49
_moshezlifeless: also, if you could take a look at the question, I would be happy10:49
_moshezlifeless: though it would not stop the squishing :)10:49
lifeless_moshez: short answer: you can register a dynamic hook which is a closure rather than a global10:49
lifeless_moshez: closures are love10:49
lifeless_moshez: or, you can refactor cmd_pull to better separation of UI and code, so that you can decorate the deeper guts rather than having to deal with the return value which is (deliberately) appropraite for shell evaluation10:50
_moshezalso dynamic hooks are strange10:50
_moshezlifeless: yeah, we were kind of scared of actually touching bzr code10:51
lifelessI think some refactoring and a patch to mainline would be best10:51
_moshezlifeless: awesome I'll see what I can do about it :)10:51
lifelessits pretty nice python I think, few people seem to have trouble doing cosmetic changes10:51
_moshezlifeless: I think I'll get him to go on irc...10:51
_moshezlifeless: not scared of the source, scared of the process :)10:52
lifelessI will be flapping shortly10:52
lifelessmeh, its much lower entry cost than twists penultimate perfect quality thingy10:52
lifelessa) write code. b) send patch via 'bzr send --mail-to bazaar@lists.canonical.com10:53
lifelessc) profit!10:53
_moshezlifeless: *hugs*10:54
_moshezlifeless: so far, as a company, we have not written twisted patches either10:54
_moshezlifeless: we don't have corporate experience contributing to free software :(10:54
lifeless_moshez: ah!10:54
lifelessVe have vayz of making you kode!10:55
_moshezlifeless: the problem is more between sending the patch and having it in a bzr version, we'd be afraid to use our own bzr10:55
lifelessdo you mean your own build?10:55
_moshezlifeless: yeah10:56
_moshezlifeless: we should probably wait for, ironically enough, moving to ubuntu from fc6 for that10:56
lifelessso if you have a plugin, you'r running your own build :P10:56
lifelessif you see what I mean10:56
_moshezlifeless: distribution of plugins is easier10:56
lifelessanyhow, fortunately bzr runs from a working tree trivially10:57
_moshezlifeless: when we use ubuntu on developer desktops, it'll be easy to distribute custom builds10:57
lifelessyou only need one custom instance tho - the integration manager right ?10:57
_moshezlifeless: probably10:57
lifeless:P10:57
_moshezlifeless: also the integration mgr actually already uses ubuntu10:57
lifelessexcellent10:57
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_moshezlifeless: so far, it looks like we'll be going for the dynamic hooks solution10:58
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lifelesspatching pull would likely be better long term10:58
_moshezlifeless: we intend to improve the integration mgr anyway, I'll possibly refactor pull then10:58
_moshezlifeless: if we do it now, it would delay the move-to-bzr project10:58
_moshezwhich I really really want to do ASAP10:59
* _moshez does the "yay bzr" dance10:59
lifelessalso,i fyou are doing non trivial business logic, consider working with the bzr domain objects directly10:59
lifelessmuch richer scripting interface10:59
* lifeless does the yay adopters dance10:59
_moshezlifeless: url for documentation of that?10:59
lifelesspydoc bzrlib.branch.Branch etc10:59
lifelessoror pydoctor10:59
lifelessalso doc/developers11:00
_moshezlifeless: ah. we do that a little too in "surrounding bazaar" scripts11:00
_moshezlike our build downloader, which generates a mail after reading the bzr ci log :)11:00
lifelessare you liking bzr?11:00
lifelessliw: 0 hours -> done, or 'nearly'?11:01
lifeless_moshez: did you see my 'scaling test' blog post?11:01
_moshezlifeless: no :(11:01
_moshezurl me11:01
lifelesshttp://planet.bazaar-vcs.org/11:01
liwlifeless, when you check your e-mail, you'll find the location from which to copy :)11:02
liwlifeless, (iow, done)11:02
lifelessliw: most excellent11:06
lifelesstell me now, I will start it coping in DC11:06
lifelessis it the for-lifeless dir?11:07
lifelessdamn, tungestem only has 1.3G free!11:09
liwlifeless, that's the dir, yes11:09
lifelesscool11:10
lifelesscopying to manganese11:10
lifeless_moshez: pretty cool if I do say so myself huh?11:11
PengI just ran bzr check for fun, and it says KnitCorrupt! :(11:13
PengAn SHA-1 doesn't match.11:14
PengSome revision from bzr.dev from 2005, so it's not like I've lost data.11:14
lifelessinteresteing11:14
lifelesswhat format repo?11:14
PengPacks.11:15
Peng...And wow, it sure floods .bzr.log.11:15
lifelessplain, not rich root?11:15
PengPlain, AFAIK.11:16
lifelessbzr info -v :)11:16
PengYeah, plain.11:16
lifelessok, thats .. interesting11:17
lifelessis it a mismatc on the inventory, or a file text?11:17
PengInventory.11:18
lifelessmumbe11:19
lifelessmumble11:19
lifelesswe should track this down, but not from an airport lounge.11:20
lifelessperhaps you could file a bug / ask a question in lp ?11:20
PengBut tracking down version control consistency errors is what airports are for!11:21
PengMailing list?11:21
lifelessor that11:21
PengHow active is the LP questions thingy vs. the list?11:22
lifelessshould be similar in terms of folkl witht he knolwdge needed to drill into this11:23
sabdflPeng: I see the same thing here, on bzr.dev11:25
sabdflKnitCorrupt: Knit inventory corrupt:11:25
sabdfl  sha-1 a7b104d9ee824caed0e59a2989446419e230c4c211:25
sabdfl  of reconstructed text does not match11:25
sabdfl  expected 873bfb499cc42b19241ac60c9736568abe2e451811:25
sabdfl  for version mbp@sourcefrog.net-20051027032619-323471e9b77bd69a11:25
sabdflPeng: you see the same one?11:26
Pengsabdfl: Different revision for me, john@arbash-meinel.com-20051117204806-013b3027c63d642b11:26
sabdfliiiinteresting11:26
lifelessok, definitely file a bug on this11:26
lifelesswe have to identify whats going on here as a priority11:27
Pengsabdfl: Wait a minute. How did your check not take half an hour to run?11:27
lifelessif its statically bad, then there is already a bug open about why this is not detected outside of check; if its creeping bad find-and-fix11:27
Penglifeless: What do you mean? If it's not consistent which revision it claims is bad?11:28
sabdflPeng: as it happened, i started the same check an hour ago, on a whim :-)11:28
sabdfli was interested to see how long it would take11:28
Pengsabdfl: Um, wow. That's a heck of a coincidence.11:28
lifelessPeng: actually, he rooted your box and watched you doing check11:28
lifelessPeng: but he'll never admit to it11:28
Peng:)11:28
sabdfl:-p11:29
lifelessso I had a scare when I got to singapore11:29
liwsabdfl = super-user accounts breaking daemon for lifeless?11:29
lifelessat the transfer desk, when the agent mutters and mumbles11:29
lifelessand you ask 'is there a problem', you don't want them to say 'you are not booked on that flight'11:29
Peng( https://answers.launchpad.net/bzr/+question/33093 is similar.)11:30
sabdfllifeless: and he said?11:33
lifeless'you are not booked on that flight'11:33
lifelessI have a seat, and apparently luggage etc should be ok, and they haven't asked for a credit card, but something *whacky* is going on11:34
PengOK, it should die soon.11:36
Peng(I'm running check again.)11:36
PengBTW, it was about the first versionedfile it was checking, according to the progress bar.11:37
fogHi, I have a serious problem with bzr 1.5 (and tool 1.5.0 as packaged in Debian): some commands, like commit, just hang indefinitely.11:43
fogand if I break them with C-C then the tree is broken. even status reports an internal error.11:44
lifelessfog: if you hit ctrl-\ it will drop you into pdb11:44
lifelessthere is obviously something wrong but I cna't help you right now - sorry.11:44
foglifeless: thanks, I'll try to debug it myself.11:45
PengOk, "bzr checked" died again. Same revision.11:45
lifelessif noone else can please gather what info you can and file a bug/post a message to the list11:45
lifeless-> QF6 to sydney :)11:45
Penglifeless: Still want me to file a bug?11:45
lifelessPeng: yes11:45
Penglifeless: Will do.11:46
Penglifeless: Have a good flight. :)11:46
_moshezlifeless: so I was going to mention that it would be nice if people would get responses to mail11:47
_moshezlifeless: it used to be the problem with twisted, btw, that you could only get the information if you were on irc :(11:47
lifeless_moshez: most mails get answers; you can tell from the archives11:48
lifeless_moshez: but most of the core devs are not volunteers, and tend to do other things in weekends11:48
lifelessreally gone11:49
PengY'know, the spinner in the progress bar is kind of bad over ssh.12:16
Pilkyis anybody using a checkout for putting changes onto launchpad, but using a branch to do most of their dev work?12:19
Pilkybecause I'm just thinking about how to do the merging and such... am I right in thinking that you can't push to a checkout12:19
PengTry it.12:20
PengIf you push to a checkout, I think bzr will push to its parent.12:20
Pilkyhmm12:20
PengI don't use checkouts at all, except for the occasional lightweight checkout, but even then only rarely.12:20
Pilkywell I'm thinking of me and my friend each having personal branches, plus the checkout of the central repo12:21
Pilkywhen we want to put something onto launchpad we merge into the checkout and then commit12:21
PengI'd use a branch and merge, commit, push. Shrug.12:22
Pilkyyeah, we're just finding some problems with that with us both working on the same branch12:22
PengWhat problems?12:24
Pilkylots of conflicts and such, just seems to be a bit more awkward12:25
PilkyI saw it mention using a checkout for putting stuff into launchpad and a separate personal branch for doing most of the editing in the launchpad docs and thought it sounded like it would work better12:27
emgentheya13:27
=== [PUPPETS]Gonzo is now known as ^Gonzo^
=== Pilky_ is now known as Pilky
gumpaHowdy, I thought I could "bzr init-repository <myrepos>", do "bzr init <mybranch>" in <myrepos> and then bzr push bzr+ssh://..+junk/myrepos, guess not eh?14:00
gumpacan only push a branch, not a repository?14:00
radixgumpa: indeed14:00
gumpathanks14:01
NyadHello, apparently bazaar only partially supports end of line conversion. isn't this bad if we have developers from different OS using bazaar for our project?14:03
bob2depends14:04
bob2if everyone uses an ok editor, it won't matter14:04
bob2for source/text files, at least14:05
Nyadso basically all our editors must use the same end of line ascii characters. but that would restrict us to not being able to use any editor14:06
bob2no, not at all14:06
bob2you just need an editor that ill sue whatever a file already uses14:06
bob2er "will use"14:07
Nyadwhy hasn't bazaar added this end of line conversion?14:07
bob2but a cvs-esque feature for bzr is under development14:07
bob2doing it cleanly is hard, and no one has done it yet (well, not had it merged into mainline)14:10
Nyadso if we start our project with the windows ascii value for end of lines then kate and wordpad will keep it that way?14:11
bob2never used kate, but I would be surprised if it didn't14:13
Nyadok tnx14:14
TheSheepwordpad coul have problems14:14
Nyadwhich would you say is easier to use, bazaar or SVK?14:14
bob2with windows line endings?14:14
Nyadyes14:14
TheSheepbob2: ah, sorry14:14
bob2bzr for sure14:14
bob2svk will get upset if you move a checkout14:14
PengThe only options are bzr or svk?14:15
Nyadfor us, we narrowed it down to those two14:16
bob2why not hg as well?14:16
Nyadnever heard of it14:17
PengYou should have.14:20
Nyadhow does it compare to bazaar and SVK?14:20
Nyador is it not really important which we use?14:20
PengI like both bzr and hg. They both have their upsides and downsides and IMO it's a toss-up. I've never used svk and don't plan to.14:24
Nyadok thanks. I have to go now14:25
NyadI will look into hg14:25
PengOops.14:31
bob2haha14:31
Peng"Hello, welcome to #bzr. You should try out hg!".14:31
PengI got yelled at a bit for that once. :\14:32
PengI'm just not very brand-loyal.14:33
TheSheepI think it's important to just be honest and to recommend whatever sems best in the situation14:33
TheSheepseems14:33
fullermdWhich is obviously ClearCase.14:33
PengIn this case, hg does have line ending conversions, based on globbing the file path.14:35
Pilkynot quite sure how the line endings are that big a problem unless you use a crap text editor14:38
PengIt's nice to set that "just to be safe". When one developer uses a weird editor just once and doesn't notice, it makes a bit a mess of history.14:40
Pilkytrue14:41
Kinnison315:34
Kinnisonoops ,w/w sorry15:35
sabdflPeng: i saw you saying that bzr check is slow for you. it's fast for me. what are you comparing it to?17:16
Pengsabdfl: I just mean vs. "hg verify".17:17
sabdflare you sure they do the same level of analysis?17:17
Pengsabdfl: hg verify is so fast that I doubt it does much of anything.17:19
sabdflthen it would seem unfair to criticize bzr for doing a rigorous job ;-)17:19
Peng:)17:19
visik7can I remove files from a repository ?17:26
Pilkyvisik7: bzr remove [FILES...]17:41
Pilkyadd --keep to the end if you don't want the files deleted on disk17:42
visik7Pilky: from a shared repository not from a branch17:44
visik7I've removed from a branch but the shared repository still contains the files17:45
Pilkyvisik7: I think if you push to the shared repo it will remove it17:45
visik7mmm no17:46
LeoNerdUmm... it can't.17:46
visik7I've erroneously versioned 200mb of jpeg17:46
LeoNerdHalf the point of revision control, is that you can check out an earlier point in history17:46
visik7and now they are in the .bzr of the shared repo17:46
LeoNerdSo that data has to remain in the repo17:46
LeoNerdWhat I suggest you do is create a new branch that cherrypicks the old one, and don't include the revision that added that file17:47
LeoNerdThen you'll be left with a new branch that has "holes" in the history; that one file never existed. You can then push this new branch back over the old one17:47
Pilkyoh, you were wanting to remove the actual file17:48
LeoNerdI imagine this is one of those usual "I want to pretend this file never existed" situations..17:59
LeoNerdUsually they come up either by someone adding/commiting a file of secrets (keys, passwords, etc..) or from just adding really big junk files17:59
Rhamphoryncusoww.. printing out the full tree is not a very useful debugging message18:57
grantgmis it possible to get a 'bzr stat'-style difference between branches? 'bzr status -r ../../criss/' gave me this error: http://pastebin.ca/102909620:14
Penggrantgm: bzr help revisionspec20:29
* Peng leaves.20:29
grantgmright. i meant bzr status -r branch:../../criss/20:44
grantgmthat should work, no?20:44
Pieterwhat d=20:51
Pieteroutput would you expect?20:51
grantgmas i said, i was looking for a bzr stat between two different branches20:53
grantgmbut it errors out (full message in at http://pastebin.ca/1029096)20:54
Pieteryes, but what should it show? what if both have changed a file? or just one?20:54
grantgmwell, i would expect it to use the directory given as the old one, and the current directory as the new. Thats the convention, right?20:56
grantgmSo if there was a difference between the files, it would be under 'changed', regardless of which branch made the change20:57
Pieternot for stat20:57
Pieteryou can do a bzr diff between the two20:57
grantgmI guess I don't understand what the -r arg does for stat, then.21:00
grantgmCan I get diff to just show me which files have changed, rather than the actual changes?21:01
grantgmthats really what I'm looking for. stat just seemed to be the most obvious way to do so21:01
grantgmthanks for the help, btw21:02
grantgmhmmm...looks like this is a known problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/14442121:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 144421 in bzr "Using branch: revspec in stat blows up" [Undecided,Confirmed]21:04
grantgmbzr diff --old=../../criss  --using=diff --diff-options="--brief"21:13
grantgmfwiw, that seems to do essentially what I'm looking for21:14
asabilhow can I resolve a directory conflict ?21:43
beunolifeless, when you deprecated get_revision_graph in 1.4, what would be the way to do it now?23:05
=== mwhudson is now known as mwh
=== mwhudson_ is now known as mwhudson
igcmorning23:59
pooliehello23:59
igchi poolie23:59
pooliehello23:59
spivGood morning.23:59
beunomorning everyone23:59

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