[00:00] <Seeker`> juliux: ?
[00:00] <juliux> Seeker`, i met ompaul at the uds and we have very very long talks;9
[00:00] <Seeker`> cool
[00:00] <juliux> he is realy a cool men
[00:01] <PriceChild> bah that old fart?
[00:20] <nalioth> you guys are all safe until Ubuntu has something in Texas
[00:20]  * nalioth doesn't travel
[00:20] <Seeker`> nalioth: you drive hundreds of miles
[00:21] <nalioth> Texas is over 700 miles across
[00:35] <Seeker`> nalioth: so you are never more than 350 miles from another state
[00:37] <jrib> depends on how deep his basement is
[00:40] <nalioth> Seeker`: nay.  i'm about 650 miles from New Mexico
[00:40]  * nalioth is on the east side of Texas
[00:43] <Seeker`> nalioth: not nearer to any other state?
[00:43] <Seeker`> my american geography is poor
[00:44] <nalioth> i'm about 70 miles from Louisiana
[01:28] <jrib> stafftook care of it
[02:09] <Flannel> Can we get something done about the spam in #ubuntu?  Yes, he uses different hosts, he is using the same user though, as easy as that is to change.  Its just getting rediculous
[02:09] <Seeker`> Someone should put a ban on SinCity!*@*
[02:10] <Jack_Sparrow> Seeker` in ubuntu?
[02:10] <Seeker`> yes
[02:10] <Seeker`> look at the hosts that the spammer has connected from
[02:11] <Seeker`> at least the lsat 5 or so have been Sincity@something
[02:11] <Seeker`> and I didn't bother checking any further back
[02:11] <Jack_Sparrow> k
[02:12] <Seeker`> yeah, I just had a look, they are all Sincity@...
[02:13] <nalioth> we'll see what that does
[02:13] <Jack_Sparrow> Seeker` I have been using a script so long I dont remember the format for it
[02:14] <Seeker`> Jack_Sparrow: IT would be /mode #ubuntu +b Sincity!*@* I think
[02:14] <Jack_Sparrow> nalioth Did you set one already?
[02:15] <nalioth> Seeker`: no
[02:15] <nalioth> i banned the IP fragment
[02:15] <Jack_Sparrow> k
[02:15] <Seeker`> nalioth: was he connecting from the same hosts but just with different hostmasks?
[02:16] <nalioth> Seeker`: /mode #ubuntu +b *!?=sincity@*
[02:16] <Jack_Sparrow> nalioth I trust you to do it more than myself
[02:16] <nalioth> Seeker`: w****r is using a shell service with dynamic hostmask capability
[02:17] <Seeker`> nalioth: whats the difference between the 2 bans?
[02:18] <Seeker`> or, rather, what is the bit before the ! for then?
[02:18] <nalioth> Seeker`: your ban would only ban users with a nick of 'sincity'
[02:18] <nalioth> Seeker`: my ban hits them with 'sincity' as the ident
[02:18] <Seeker`> ah, ok
[02:19] <nalioth> the ban i instituted should keep them out for a bit
[02:19] <Jack_Sparrow> well done
[02:20] <Seeker`> so it is nick@(n|i)=something@host?
[02:20] <Jack_Sparrow> Find the guy and I will drive over to Vegas and have a word with him in person..  :)
[02:21] <Seeker`> woops, that should be a ! after nick
[02:21] <nalioth> Seeker`: nick!ident@hostmask/or/IP
[02:21] <Seeker`> k
[02:21] <Seeker`> thanks :D
[02:23]  * Seeker` files that away under "Ban-Fu"
[04:28] <bazhang> ban evasion by ragsagar (kracker yesterday)
[04:29] <bazhang> probably something staff might like to know too
[04:38] <bazhang> tonyyarusso, ping
[04:40] <tonyyarusso> bazhang: pong
[04:40] <bazhang> tonyyarusso, ban evasion sufficient reason to ban again?
[04:40] <Amaranth> Always
[04:41] <bazhang> ragsagar in #ubuntu kracker yesterday
[04:41] <tonyyarusso> bazhang: for sure.
[04:41] <bazhang> thanks tonyyarusso  Amaranth  just wanted to be sure :)
[05:07] <flip2405> are you kidding
[05:08] <nalioth> flip2405: hi
[05:08] <flip2405> Whats up
[05:08] <flip2405> need some help
[05:08] <nalioth> how can we help you?
[05:10] <flip2405> Umm on my little panel on the bottom my trash icon is invisible not disappeard just invisible
[05:10] <nalioth> flip2405: #ubuntu is the place
[05:10] <flip2405> yeah
[05:10] <flip2405> if i was unbanned like they said i would be i would happily be there
[05:10] <flip2405> so instead ill just come here with my problems
[05:11] <nalioth> have you not been to #ubuntu ?
[05:11] <flip2405> umm im banned
[05:11] <flip2405> have been for about a week week n ahalf now
[05:11] <Amaranth> Being banned from #ubuntu does not mean you can come here for such things.
[05:12] <Amaranth> @btlogin
[05:12] <nalioth> we are only human, flip2405
[05:12] <flip2405> bann tracker fails
[05:12] <flip2405> but
[05:12] <flip2405> yes
[05:12] <flip2405> i know
[05:12] <nalioth> you gained quite few bans there
[05:12] <flip2405> yesir
[05:12] <nalioth> Amaranth: this was solved yesterday
[05:13] <Amaranth> Yeah, I see no ban for flip2405 anyway
[05:13] <flip2405> * End of /MOTD command.
[05:13] <flip2405> -NickServ- This nickname is owned by someone else
[05:13] <flip2405> -NickServ- If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
[05:13] <flip2405> * Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connect
[05:13] <flip2405> * Cannot join #ubuntu (You are banned).
[05:14] <nalioth> Amaranth: he's racked up every known ban type.  PriceChild must have just removed the obvious one
[05:14] <nalioth> flip2405: please don't paste
[05:14] <nalioth> i am trying to get you into #ubuntu
[05:14] <flip2405> i was just showing you the message i got sorry
[05:14] <Amaranth> I'm not seeing anything in the ban tracker about flip2405 except removed bans
[05:15] <nalioth> flip2405: no luck?
[05:15] <flip2405> As i told you bantracker fails
[05:15] <flip2405> still banned
[05:15] <flip2405> would you like my ip
[05:15] <flip2405> ?
[05:15] <tonyyarusso> How would you know anything about the bantracker?
[05:16] <flip2405> tonyyarusso do you not remember who i am
[05:16] <Amaranth> This thing says PriceChild removed the bans, not added
[05:16] <Amaranth> But since I was not here I'll stay out of it
[05:16] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, the ban evader from a while back.  And?
[05:16] <flip2405> okay
[05:16] <flip2405> so
[05:16] <flip2405> bantracker failed the first time i came here
[05:16] <flip2405> why it not fail now?
[05:16] <tonyyarusso> What do you mean?
[05:16] <flip2405> it needs to be recoded
[05:16] <nalioth> flip2405: why not be postive?
[05:16] <Amaranth> but flip2405, I must say you seem very....annoying
[05:17] <flip2405> ouch that hurt
[05:17] <flip2405> :)
[05:17] <Amaranth> "Oh, I can't ask a question in #ubuntu so I'll join #ubuntu-ops and bug them until they remove the ban"
[05:17] <nalioth> i don't see any more bans in #ubuntu
[05:17] <flip2405> Orly i dont remember saying that
[05:17] <flip2405> still banned
[05:17] <flip2405> nalioth would you like my ip
[05:18] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: Look for the d variety.
[05:18] <nalioth> tonyyarusso: i removed one d ban already
[05:18] <Amaranth> i already checked real name
[05:19] <Amaranth> i don't think we have "blah" banned :P
[05:19] <flip2405> btw
[05:19] <flip2405> i used many nics
[05:19] <flip2405> nicks
[05:20] <flip2405> and proxys changing the host name
[05:20] <nalioth> flip2405: can you still not get into the channel?
[05:20] <flip2405> okay
[05:20] <Amaranth> In that case, I'm glad you're banned
[05:20] <flip2405> im in
[05:20] <flip2405> ty
[05:20] <Amaranth> nalioth: Why are you letting a ban-evading proxy user into #ubuntu?
[05:20] <flip2405> why must you test me
[05:21] <nalioth> Amaranth: as i told you, this was solved yesterday, but since there were 7 different bans, PriceChild didn't see them all
[05:21] <Amaranth> How do you 'solve' such a thing?
[05:21] <Amaranth> This user obviously cares zero for our rules
[05:21] <nalioth> Amaranth: don't play dumb.  it was 'resolved', ok?
[05:22] <Amaranth> If it was resolved by you and PriceChild alone I'm not sure I'm satisfied with the resolution.
[05:22] <nalioth> check the logs, please
[05:22] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: I believe he's asking for you to explain the resolution..
[05:22] <flip2405> The resolution was i follow the rules i get unbanned
[05:23] <nalioth> tonyyarusso: i know nothing about it except it was resolved and PriceChild removed the ban (not realizing there were multiple)
[05:24] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: When did PriceChild consult the people who placed the bans?
[05:24] <tonyyarusso> PriceChild: Yes, that's also directed right at you.
[05:27] <nalioth> tonyyarusso: i have no knowledge of what and why, i just saw PriceChild tell him the ban was removed and so forth
[05:27] <Amaranth> I see no resolution
[05:27] <nalioth> dunno why all the fuss . . .
[05:27] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: If you have no knowledge, then what makes you qualified to remove bans?
[05:27] <Amaranth> I see him saying he was told the ban was 48 hours and getting unbanned by PriceChild
[05:28] <Amaranth> Then Seeker` posted a log and everyone said he should be banned again
[05:28] <bazhang> flip2405, you should depart please
[05:28] <flip2405> umm when i figure out if i am being banned again or not
[05:28] <nalioth> tonyyarusso: because PriceChild came to the resolution and unbanned him ( not knowing there were umpteen bans, i suspect he didn't remove them all )
[05:28] <bazhang> flip2405, no idling in here thanks
[05:28] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: PriceChild does not have that authority.
[05:28] <flip2405> because i am currently helping some one but if im going to be baned again i am going to tell him to go back to the channel im not helping
[05:29] <Amaranth> They then asked you to kline him after the threat he made
[05:29] <flip2405> hmm
[05:29]  * flip2405 dont remember making a threat
[05:30] <bazhang> flip2405, you can PM him--no idling here read the /topic
[05:30] <Amaranth> [02:09] <Seeker`> -02:10:02- flip2405: you have a week until i come back if its not removed ill share a little video of what im doing to another irc server that will be done to this one
[05:30] <flip2405> im not idle
[05:30] <flip2405> ohh my botnet :)
[05:30] <Hobbsee> bazhang: stand down.
[05:30] <flip2405> my bad
[05:30] <bazhang> okay Hobbsee
[05:30] <flip2405> yeah i was in a rage and under stress
[05:30] <Hobbsee> bazhang: :)
[05:30] <Amaranth> uhuh
[05:31] <Amaranth> How people react 'under stress' is a good indicator of who they are as a person.
[05:31] <flip2405> No
[05:31] <flip2405> That is where you are wrong
[05:31] <Hobbsee> flip2405: stressed or not, threats are not appropriate.
[05:31] <flip2405> under stress the mind enters a state witch is in controlable
[05:32] <Amaranth> If your first reaction is proxies and botnets that is not a good thing.
[05:32] <Hobbsee> then when under stress, you should stop connecting to irc and such, where you will be held responsible for what you say.
[05:33] <flip2405> I have no problem being held accountable for my actions.
[05:33] <flip2405> But i think a week for argueing with a mini mod is a bit much
[05:34] <Amaranth> minimod?
[05:34] <Hobbsee> in which case, you're being held accountable for threatening the network with a botnet, in which case, you probably should be klined, and not on here at all.  QED.
[05:34] <nalioth> flip2405: is there anything else we can help you with?
[05:35] <flip2405> Hold on let me actually read your rules so i have a defence
[05:35] <flip2405> and nalioth no thank you
[05:35] <Hobbsee> ...
[05:35] <flip2405> may i know where the rules are poste
[05:35] <flip2405> d
[05:36] <Hobbsee> !rules
[05:36] <flip2405> okay because im sure in your rules it clearly states a op can not ban for personal reasons
[05:36] <Hobbsee> flip2405: please define how your ban is based on personal reasons only.
[05:37] <Amaranth> flip2405: you admit the ban was not for personal reasons
[05:37] <flip2405> The reason all this happend was because of a personal arguement with jacksparrow witch inturn banned me for an arguement me and him had
[05:37] <flip2405> so thats how it all started
[05:37] <flip2405> in the first place
[05:38] <flip2405> is a ban of personal reason
[05:38] <Amaranth> [03:27] <flip2405> the ban was set before the pm started
[05:38] <Amaranth> [03:28] <Seeker`> So he didn't ban you because of a personal argument
[05:38] <Amaranth> [03:28] <flip2405> Well no i guess for repeating my self
[05:38] <flip2405> and it was over pm
[05:38] <Amaranth> Then you turn to proxies and foul language
[05:38] <Amaranth> Why is this not a permban?
[05:38] <flip2405> Okay I have came to the conclusion i was repeating my self every 5 mins that would not be marked as spam seems a new user comes that can help every secound
[05:39] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: because freenode hasn't issued a kline for threats of a botnet yet.
[05:39] <Amaranth> flip2405: it was 9 times in 7 minutes
[05:39] <flip2405> Oh this is linked to freenode?
[05:39] <flip2405> No
[05:40] <flip2405> it wasnt 9 times in 7 mins it was more like 9 times in over 45 mins
[05:40] <nalioth> flip2405: are you still banned?
[05:40] <Amaranth> No but I'm about to ban him again
[05:40] <flip2405> No nalioth but i would like to clear my self
[05:40] <flip2405> umm as i asked this is linked to freenode?
[05:41] <nalioth> flip2405: if' youre not banned, why are you still here whining?
[05:41] <Amaranth> You were banned for repeating yourself, I may not have banned you for such a thing at that point but the ban evasion and childish actions after the fact are reasons for the ban to stay
[05:42] <Amaranth> [03:51] <tonyyarusso> That's fine.  You will follow them, whether you want to or not, so it's your choice whether to listen to advice and clarification about doing so.
[05:42] <Amaranth> [03:52] <Seeker`> nixternal: sods law :P
[05:42] <Amaranth> [03:52] <blag> tony no i will just find more proxys
[05:42] <Amaranth> fun bits of log
[05:42] <flip2405> zzz okay well now that i know i am not going to be banned again ill leave :)
[05:42] <flip2405> okay
[05:42] <flip2405> now im banned agin
[05:42] <flip2405> again
[05:42] <flip2405> so
[05:43] <Amaranth> It is not going away
[05:43] <flip2405> Hmm okay
[05:43] <flip2405> ill just talk to the admin of freenode
[05:43] <flip2405> via aim
[05:43] <flip2405> brb
[05:43] <Amaranth> And I'll be talking to PriceChild about why he thought such a ban should be removed
[05:43]  * Amaranth revives the get-off-freenode spec
[05:44] <flip2405> Go for it
[05:44] <nalioth> Amaranth: why did you ban him from #ubuntu ?
[05:44] <flip2405> i know i will not be glined klined gzlined or any lined off freenode
[05:44] <nalioth> he was not deserving of it
[05:44] <Amaranth> nalioth: Because he is a ban evader who threatens to use proxies and botnets
[05:44] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: just speak to jono.  take logs.
[05:44] <nalioth> and he promised to follow the rules
[05:45] <Amaranth> nalioth: At this point either you're joking or I've lost all respect for you
[05:45] <flip2405> nalioth to aggravate me into throwing around useless threats that i refuse to atm because i am in a clear state of mind
[05:45] <Amaranth> nalioth: I wouldn't even allow such a person on the network, forget about #ubuntu channels
[05:45] <nalioth> you just made a personal feeling into a ban, Amaranth
[05:45] <flip2405> witch is against not only your rules but freenodes rules
[05:45] <nalioth> what good is our word if the next op along looks at the past and acts on it?
[05:45] <tonyyarusso> No, he just made THE NETWORK RULES into a ban.
[05:46] <tonyyarusso> Since the network administrators aren't enforcing them anymore.
[05:46] <Hobbsee> and we're oh so glad that freenode staff have decided to continuously not enforce network rules.
[05:46] <flip2405> ill be sure to let him know that
[05:47] <Amaranth> flip2405: freenode staff are not supposed to interfere with working of the channels on the network
[05:47] <Hobbsee> flip2405: btw, playing the "i know people high up in the network" card doesn't help.
[05:47] <Amaranth> flip2405: Thus talking to some staffer doesn't help you
[05:47] <nalioth> Amaranth: until he violates some guideline in the present, please do not ban him on his pre-promise activity
[05:47] <flip2405> staffer? you think i know a staffer LOL @ you
[05:47] <Amaranth> nalioth: He was clearly evading bans
[05:47] <flip2405> In the past
[05:48] <Amaranth> nalioth: The ban should never have been removed in the first place
[05:48] <flip2405> when have i did it today?
[05:48] <nalioth> Amaranth: yes, in the past
[05:48] <nalioth> Amaranth: PriceChild just doesn't remove bans cuz he's breathing
[05:48] <flip2405> That was not your call to make i was told my ban was being removed witch inturn gives me a clear slate
[05:48] <Amaranth> nalioth: Which is permban
[05:48] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: it really doesn't matter what you do.  if you ban, PriceChild or nalioth will just remove it, as tehy prefer quantity over quality on this network.
[05:49] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: PriceChild was not within team guidelines to remove all of these, and neither were you.  They stay.
[05:49] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: there are more efficient ways of dealing in irc, at this point.
[05:49] <tonyyarusso> @btlogin
[05:50]  * Amaranth is wondering when the "freenode staff can't be ops" rule will go into place
[05:50] <Amaranth> Clearly some conflict of interest here.
[05:50] <nalioth> so now all the bans i don't think are warranted can be removed?
[05:50] <tonyyarusso> Amaranth: Preferably instantly.
[05:51] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: sometime after the council is not half made up of freenode staffers...
[05:51] <flip2405> why dont you unlink from them if you dont want them to interfear?\
[05:51] <Hobbsee> although, i guess they could be made to stand aside, due to the conflict of interest, and other ops could step in.
[05:51] <Amaranth> Hobbsee: The IRC Council is a bit of a joke anyway at this point, tbh
[05:52] <Amaranth> flip2405: Because they have their own rules that they don't interfere.
[05:52] <flip2405>  Okay so why are you guys linked to them in the first place?
[05:52] <nalioth> so let me see, PriceChild resolves the situation, and let's say flip2405 does as promised.  where is the harm in this?
[05:53] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: He didn't consult people as team guidelines clearly state he is supposed to, and the "resolution" is not acceptable to the original operator(s).
[05:53] <flip2405> nalioth just leave it no sense in getting your opers takin away over me
[05:53] <nalioth> i don't think he made the decision in a vacuum, tonyyarusso
[05:53] <Amaranth> nalioth: Seeker` (who can't remove the ban anyway) said try coming back and talking to us in 24-48 hours, flip2405 comes back in a week and when he says he was told the ban would be removed PriceChild removes it
[05:53] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: I don't know what he was in, but he did not consult the placing operator(s).
[05:54] <tonyyarusso> The end.
[05:54] <Amaranth> At the time PriceChild removed the ban there were complaints and calls for you to kline him for his threats
[05:54] <Amaranth> So clearly no resolution there.
[05:54] <nalioth> but even if he did, don't you think that a) you can wait until PriceChild comes around to ask him or b) wait until flip2405 runs amuck and proves PriceChild is a patsy ?
[05:54] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: No, he is supposed to wait before removing it, not the other way around.
[05:54] <nalioth> we have become very very vindictative here
[05:54] <nalioth> ban ban ban
[05:54] <tonyyarusso> We are becoming very useless and disrespectful is what's happening.
[05:55] <nalioth> no 2nd chances ( not even accidental ones )
[05:55]  * Hobbsee mutters about staffers with a conflict of interest.
[05:55] <Amaranth> nalioth: How is using proxies to evade bans worthy of a second chance?
[05:55] <tonyyarusso> You should respect your fellow team members decisions, as has repeatedly been decided you should.  If you aren't comfortable doing that, you have no business here.
[05:55] <Amaranth> It just says next time he breaks a rule we have to deal with the drama over again.
[05:55] <Hobbsee> nalioth: second chances happen when the person is likely not to screw up again.
[05:55] <Hobbsee> nalioth: not when they show absolutely no indication of going and repeating the same behaviour.
[05:56] <nalioth> you mean he didn't immediatly start terrorizing #ubuntu as soon as he got in?
[05:56] <nalioth> HORRORS! you mean he might actually be adhering to his promise?
[05:57] <flip2405> Amaranth who said i was going to brake another rule 1 and 2 seriously dude Murders and rapest get secound chances and your not going to give me one over a simple proxy??
[05:57] <Amaranth> You mean next time he breaks a rule we have to spend an hour watching for and banning the dozen proxies he uses to come back?
[05:57] <Hobbsee> except if they get jailed for life, sure.
[05:57] <tonyyarusso> Your mockery does not help solidify yourself as a respectable team member.
[05:58] <flip2405> Amaranth I gave my word and when i give my word you can take it to the bank
[05:58] <Amaranth> flip2405: Your first act was to destroy all trust I may have in your word
[05:59]  * Hobbsee goes to remove the entire banlist, on the grounds that they should all get second chances, no matter what they do.
[05:59] <flip2405> Okay first off i never gave my word before i did it so you have no reason not to trust my word
[05:59] <Hobbsee> or whether they're likely to do it again
[05:59] <Hobbsee> that sounds like a freenode staff solution.
[06:00] <flip2405> Hobbsee are you saying you have never got a secound chance at nothing not a girlfriend or something to do with the law
[06:00] <flip2405> anything
[06:00]  * Hobbsee does not have a girlfriend, for a start.
[06:01] <flip2405> same with you amaranth
[06:01]  * Hobbsee is straight.
[06:01] <flip2405> okay
[06:01] <flip2405> a boyfried
[06:01] <flip2405> boyfriend*
[06:01] <flip2405> Or better yet
[06:01] <Amaranth> Break a rule, then break an even worse rule avoiding the consequences of that one
[06:01] <Hobbsee> sure.  but i wouldn't expect to, if i started threatening people.
[06:01] <Hobbsee> and what Amaranth said.
[06:01] <flip2405> This would be easy for this situation
[06:01] <Amaranth> Then threaten to take down the whole network if we don't let you in
[06:02] <Amaranth> Three strikes, you're out.
[06:02] <flip2405> Hobbsee are you saying you never said something during pms that you really didnt mean to say
[06:02] <flip2405> Amaranth
[06:02] <flip2405> i only count 2
[06:02] <flip2405> seems the first strike was for personal cause
[06:02] <Hobbsee> flip2405: are you saying that i can say i'm going to kill you via PM, then later say that i didn't mean it, and then it be totally forgotten about?
[06:02] <Amaranth> It was not and you admitted it was not
[06:03] <flip2405> Hobbsee yes i would forget all about it
[06:03] <Amaranth> You were banned for repeating a message over and over, any personal argument happened with that op after the fact
[06:03] <Amaranth> By your own admission
[06:03] <flip2405> Now if you came at me with the knife and stabbed me it maybe a diff story but words dont mean nothing its the actions that cound
[06:03] <flip2405> count*
[06:03] <Amaranth> Actions count, you're right
[06:04] <Amaranth> Proxies to evade bans
[06:04] <flip2405> Amaranth
[06:04] <flip2405> see
[06:04] <Amaranth> That right there is permban
[06:04] <flip2405> but the ban was not set in place until after the argument
[06:04] <Amaranth> The rest is just the icing on the cake, so to speak
[06:04] <flip2405> if it would have been set before the arguement then it would have not been personal cause
[06:05] <Amaranth> This discussion is going no where
[06:05] <Amaranth> We're not removing the ban
[06:05] <flip2405> but seeming it was after the argument that would be personal cause
[06:06] <flip2405> Amaranth , so you dont beleave no one deserves a secound chance ?
[06:07] <Amaranth> Not in this case.
[06:07] <flip2405> Orly soo did you see me send a bot net after you
[06:07] <Amaranth> If you would have not used proxies and came back in a day or so the ban would have been removed
[06:07] <Amaranth> But you went the wrong route and proved the ban should stay
[06:07] <tonyyarusso> flip2405: People _earn_ second chances - they don't just ask for them and get what they want.
[06:08] <flip2405> Tonyyarusso how shall you expect me to earn it in this situation?
[06:09] <Amaranth> You lost the chance to earn it when you started evading the ban
[06:09] <tonyyarusso> Show that you can wait a while without coming in here to whine and without us catching you doing nonsense in other channels.  After that, we'll consider removing a ban, and then watch you carefully for a few days.  But first, you should wait an appropriate timeframe for what you did already.
[06:09] <flip2405> Dudd
[06:09] <flip2405> dude
[06:09] <tonyyarusso> Which is not measured in hours.
[06:09]  * Hobbsee is still unsure as to how someone who has the clear capacity ot run a botnet, and the intent to do so when his ultimatums are not reached, is welcome on the network.
[06:09] <flip2405> its been a while
[06:09] <flip2405> a fucking week
[06:10] <flip2405> in a half
[06:10] <flip2405> to be exact
[06:10] <tonyyarusso> !ohmy
[06:10] <flip2405> Check when i used the proxies
[06:10] <nixternal> yay!
[06:10] <tonyyarusso> hey nixternal
[06:10] <Amaranth> flip2405: Please just leave.
[06:11] <flip2405> Im not done yet
[06:11] <tonyyarusso> You should be.
[06:11] <Hobbsee> flip2405: you've now got another week.   If you come back in a week, without DDoSing the network, and w ithout using proxies, or any of that, and are more productive than you have been today, then the people here will revisit your bans.
[06:11] <flip2405> But i am not.
[06:11] <Hobbsee> that's your second chance.
[06:11] <flip2405> nah
[06:11] <Hobbsee> well, third / fourth / fifth.
[06:11] <flip2405> i got a better ideal
[06:11] <Amaranth> Here we go.
[06:11]  * Hobbsee waits for the botnet.
[06:11] <nixternal> kjf)*@#)*@
[06:12] <Amaranth> Thank you nalioth.
[06:12] <nixternal> wtf is so hard to understand? why can't he grow the fuck up already?
[06:12] <nixternal> he would have been unbanned long ago if he would act civil and not 10
[06:12] <bazhang> so my ban-evader ban should stay then? a bit confused at this point (ragsagar)
[06:12] <Hobbsee> nixternal: because that requires sense, and such.
[06:13] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: yes, it's interesting how he goes silent.
[06:13] <tonyyarusso> bazhang: so is everyone else..
[06:13] <bazhang> okay thanks tonyyarusso
[06:13] <nalioth> bazhang: sure, ban everyone
[06:13] <Amaranth> bazhang: If they can come back in a proper period of time and prove they are should be allowed back in perhaps you can let them
[06:13] <Amaranth> It's a case by case basis
[06:13] <nalioth> make sure you get them for too many exclamation points
[06:13] <nixternal> Hobbsee: I wouldn't worry about a botnet...for fucksake he is to stupid to use a damn proxy w/o getting figured
[06:13] <nalioth> don't forget the foreign language first times
[06:13] <nalioth> first timers
[06:13] <Amaranth> But if they are using proxies and such to evade bans repeatedly and threatening botnets...
[06:14] <bazhang> nalioth, the guy ban evaded in a single day; should I lift that now? (unban, not ban)
[06:14] <nixternal> last week he went to proxying but didn't change his nick nor his hostmask, just his domain
[06:14] <nalioth> bazhang: do as you wish
[06:14] <Amaranth> Hobbsee: I agree, let's just clean the whole ban list.
[06:14]  * nixternal goes for beer!
[06:15] <nixternal> ops makes me want to drink :p
[06:15]  * Amaranth would go for vodka, if there were any around
[06:15] <bazhang> how did nix-ternal get the pointy clicky factoid?
[06:15] <Amaranth> My work on compiz show desktop is derailed for the night
[06:15] <nixternal> !hobbsee
[06:15] <nixternal> bazhang: ^^ that's how
[06:15] <tonyyarusso> !tonyyarusso
[06:15] <nixternal> hahaha
[06:15] <tonyyarusso> ah, right
[06:15] <nixternal> tonyyarusso: did she get you too?
[06:15] <bazhang> :)
[06:16] <Amaranth> !amaranth
[06:16] <tonyyarusso> not sure
[06:16] <nixternal> crimsun started the rumor and Hobbsee ran with it, and now I am known for that damn trigger
[06:16] <tonyyarusso> !-tonyyarusso
[06:16] <Hobbsee> !visternal
[06:16] <tonyyarusso> aha!
[06:16] <nixternal> I meet people and they go "oh, you are the pointy clicky vista lover with free money"
[06:16] <bazhang> visternal ouch
[06:16] <Hobbsee> hahahaha
[06:16] <Amaranth> nixternal: I could use some free money
[06:16] <nixternal> me too!
[06:17] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: go ahead and clear it.  and then step away, and see what happens when the freenoders run #ubuntu.  all 2 of them.
[06:17] <Amaranth> Hobbsee: Tempting.
[06:17] <Amaranth> Really, it is.
[06:17] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: well, why not?
[06:18] <Amaranth> Hobbsee: You first, I'm trying to have Canonical not hate me. ;)
[06:18] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: why would they hate you?  the 2 most active of the council have decided that that's the way they want to run things.
[06:18] <Amaranth> Although not joining #ubuntu would certainly make my IRC client start faster
[06:18] <nixternal> Canonical hates everyone!
[06:19] <tonyyarusso> So that's why ephy is all crashy
[06:19] <Amaranth> tonyyarusso: Use firefox </jedi>
[06:20] <tonyyarusso> Amaranth: now that it doesn't look puke-ugly-different in Gnome, I'm considering it again.
[06:20] <Amaranth> It's good enough that I switched
[06:20] <Amaranth> I might check out epiphany in a year when webkit is fully landed
[06:20] <Amaranth> but as a gecko wrapper it is no longer better than firefox
[06:34] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: you'd have to get the council changed, before you could get off freenode.
[06:34] <Amaranth> I wasn't serious about that, really.
[06:35] <Amaranth> If I thought that was required I'd just resign.
[06:43] <Myrtti> wth just happened there?
[06:43] <Myrtti> good morning
[06:44] <Myrtti> epiphany is lovely
[06:44] <Hobbsee> morning Myrtti
[07:02] <jussi01> Good morning all!
[07:02] <jussi01> seems like you are having fun...
[07:54] <Hobbsee> fsvo 'fun', sure!
[08:25] <Madpilot> morning all
[08:25] <tonyyarusso> hey
[08:25] <Hobbsee> morning Madpilot
[08:29] <Myrtti> Madpilot <3
[08:29] <jussi01> gm Madpilot
[08:48] <Myrtti> !klipper
[08:48] <Myrtti> objections ^
[08:48] <Myrtti> ?
[08:50] <Madpilot> seems sane, insofar as any KDE app is :)
[08:52] <Myrtti> !klipper is the KDE clipboard utility. It stores clipboard history, and allows you to link clipboard contents to application actions. Further information is available at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Klipper
[08:52] <Myrtti> !klipper
[08:52] <jussi01> !clipper
[08:52] <Myrtti> !klipper > calcmandan
[08:52] <Madpilot> jussi01, you kannot use inkorrekt letters when kalling up KDE applikations.
[08:52] <Myrtti> :-DDDDD
[10:22]  * Seeker` sighs
[10:30] <elky> o.O dubyew tea eff happened here today?
[10:41] <jussi01> hello elky
[10:43] <Hobbsee> they went mad, so they got shot?
[10:44] <elky> Hobbsee, are you sure the mad ones are the ones who suffered here?
[10:44] <Hobbsee> elky: hmm.  i'm not sure.
[10:44] <elky> because it looks like alot of favouring a blatent troll over long-time ops
[10:46] <elky> and since when has DDoSing or threats thereof been welcome here?
[10:48] <Seeker`> I feel that PriceChild was treated a little unfairly earlier
[10:49] <Seeker`> I asked him in PM if he was going to deal with flip, and he said not if i was going to first. I pointed out that I couldn't unban people, so he asked me what I would recommend.
[10:50] <Seeker`> What with all the discussion about treating users fairly recently, I thought it would be best to give him a second chance, and suggested that PriceChild unban him
[10:50] <Seeker`> which he did
[10:50] <Seeker`> however, this was before the threats etc.
[10:51] <Seeker`> at which point I asked nalioth if he was going to do anything about it, and he said no because he had already disconnected
[10:51] <elky> Seeker`, the problem is not that he was to be unbanned, but rather how he got to put on that behaviour and STILL have someone with alot of control petitioning for his unbanning
[10:55] <Seeker`> elky: I understand that, but I feel that some people think that PriceChild was acting on his own as a Staffer, which wasn't the case
[11:10] <elky> Seeker`, it's really hard to tell the difference between acting in the interests of ubuntu channels or freenode. certain people err to the side of freenode which increases the workload of, and plummets the motivation of those who used to be trusted who now are ignored for the sake of stopping a troll from making threats.
[11:11] <Seeker`> mm
[11:12] <Seeker`> I just saw it turning into a bit of a "I dont like staff" rant, which I dont think is necessarily fair
[11:15] <elky> Seeker`, this has happened with nearly every time sink problem troll we've had in the past 4 or so months
[11:15] <elky> some of us are losing patience and soon these channels will have no old-time ops left.
[11:15] <elky> except those who are staff. funny that.
[11:16] <jussi01> This is really sad :/
[11:16] <elky> jussi01, this is yes. it was also prewarned
[11:17] <jussi01> Quite apart from what actually happened, it amazes me that a staffer, longtime op AND council memeber gets treated like this...
[11:17] <elky> jussi01, that is what dissent does.
[11:19] <jussi01> elky: yeah. BTW, when are we geting a new council member?
[11:20] <elky> jussi01, only one?
[11:20] <elky> i have a feeling we need to fill a few spots
[11:21] <jussi01> ahhh, yeah, i was referring to the fact we have 4 and should be 5
[11:21] <Seeker`> who is on the council atm?
[11:22] <jussi01> Lorenzo, elky price and nal
[11:22] <elky> how long since you've seen the former of those?
[11:22] <Seeker`> a while
[11:22] <Seeker`> where did he go?
[11:22] <jussi01> been a while
[11:23] <jussi01> Seeker`: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-irc-council/+members
[11:23] <elky> Seeker`, he's as sick of this crap as the rest of us.
[13:00] <PriceChild> Just catching up on backlog.
[13:01] <PriceChild> At the time, I saw 'a' ban on flipster which had lasted a week, consulted with Seeker` who I saw had been involved in the last encounter and was so semi-aware of what was going on, agreed to unban and ask him to play nice. Removed 'one' ban on him.
[13:01] <PriceChild> Hobbsee: I am getting utterly fed up of you blaming everything I do that you don't agree with or understand on me being a staffer.
[13:02] <PriceChild> Reading the backlog it seems there was a hell of a lot more to the situation than I was aware of.
[13:03]  * jussi01 hugs PriceChild
[13:03]  * tomaw thought your ban tracker had a 'reason' field
[13:04] <Seeker`> tomaw: it isn't always used
[13:04] <jussi01> tomaw: it has a comments field - but the ops are lazy ;)
[13:04] <tomaw> Maybe the lazy ones should be shot :)
[13:05] <jussi01> tomaw: however it does also have the log for the time of ban
[13:06] <PriceChild> Why do you gang up on nalioth, tonyyarusso and Amaranth, *just* because he is a staffer, *just* because he saw what I did? He didn't do anything, nevermind doing anything wrong.
[13:07] <popey> PriceChild: it helps to perpetuate the argument that you lot should be banned from ubuntu ops
[13:07] <popey> serves a need IMO
[13:07] <Seeker`> PriceChild: I believe they were angry with nalioth becuase after you unbnned him, he was either unaware of the unbanning, or unable to get back in to the channel because of another ban. This then caused flip to get angry again, and threaten attacking the network etc.
[13:07] <Myrtti> cool down everyone
[13:08] <Myrtti> I'm getting scared with you peeps
[13:08] <Seeker`> PriceChild: They are angry because nalioth did nothing at the time, and was defending flip today, saying that he should remain unbanned
[13:08] <tomaw> Surely nalioth was only trying to clean up after PriceChild missed a ban and didn't remove it?
[13:09] <PriceChild> Yes, I made a mistake. At the time, I just wanted to deal with the guy. I didn't realise there was more to it than a couple of minutes investigation revealed. *My* personal mistake.
[13:09] <PriceChild> This has *nothing* to do with freenode!!
[13:09] <Seeker`> tomaw: PriceChild removed the ban, flip then threatened to attack the network (in PM with me), and then disconnected. I pasted the PM in here, and asking nalioth if he would do anything about it. His response was "He's gone"
[13:09] <tomaw> Yeah, easy enough a mistake to make anyway
[13:10] <tomaw> Seeker`: hrm, I don't recall seeing that reported to staff
[13:10] <tomaw> maybe I was asleep
[13:10] <Seeker`> tomaw: nalioth is staff
[13:11] <tomaw> It was rather early for me, I probably just missed it :)
[13:11] <Seeker`> I think the feeling is that even if nalioth did'nt k-line him as staff, he should still have banned him from #ubuntu again as an #ubuntu op
[13:12] <Seeker`> becuase his behaviour certainly wasn't fitting with someone "we" want in #ubuntu
[13:13] <tomaw> I only read over logs of here quickly, so correct me where I am wrong: didn't PC remove a week old ban that matched flip, leaving another in place by accident.  then flip joined here to have it removed, nalioth spotted PC removing the bans and that it was a 'resolved' issue and so removed the other relevant bans, but then another op simply put them back.
[13:13] <tomaw> I didn't actually go back over #ubuntu to check for mode changes so I could well have got the wrong end of the stick completely
[13:13] <Seeker`> tomaw: flip got banned a week ago, after he was banned he started ban evading
[13:14] <PriceChild> I didn't even see the other bans, which is why I judged it to be a semi-minor issue that a week ban was ample for.
[13:14] <tomaw> Yeah, but my understanding from reading scrollback here is that he agreed to play nice
[13:14] <PriceChild> That is why I left them in place.
[13:14] <Seeker`> nixternal was going to remove the orginal ban as he thought it was unjust, but he started ban evading before nixternal could remove it, so the ban stood
[13:14] <Seeker`> he came back a week later, saying "can I be unbanned"
[13:14] <tomaw> Obviously if he'd not agreed to play nice and was still being a problem then the ban would never have been lifted in the first place
[13:15] <jrib> there were some misunderstandings, can we come to a consensus now as to whether or not flip should be banned?
[13:15] <Seeker`> I asked PriceChild in PM if he was going to deal with it, and he asked me what I thought should be done. In light of all the recent dicsussion about users being "mistreated" I thought we should give him a second chance
[13:16] <Seeker`> I did not realise he was locked out under more than 1 ban. PriceChild removed the ban, but flip either didn't realise or was still caught by another ban
[13:16] <Seeker`> at which point he got wound up
[13:16] <Seeker`> I was talking to him in PM, and he threatened, in PM to attack the network
[13:16] <Seeker`> by this point, PriceChild had left. I pasted the PM into the channel, and asked nalioth if he was going to do something about it. nalioth said no
[13:17] <tomaw> But by that point he'd already quit?
[13:17] <Seeker`> yes
[13:17] <jrib> who originally banned flip?
[13:17] <Seeker`> Jack_Sparrow
[13:17] <Seeker`> and the rest of what happened can be seen in the logs from earlier today
[13:19] <jussi01> tomaw: btw, you should have access to our bt if you care to look
[13:19] <tomaw> jussi01: sure, where is it?
[13:19] <Seeker`>  @btlogin
[13:19] <jussi01> tomaw: do @btlogin
[13:19] <tomaw> @btlogin
[13:19] <jussi01> ahh...
[13:20] <popey> @btlogin
[13:21] <jussi01> tomaw: you _should_ have access - obviously screwed up there somwhere, but Ill see you are added at somepoint soon
[13:22] <tomaw> okay :)
[13:22] <tomaw> On the subject of bots, has anyone tried yours on the testnet?
[13:22] <Myrtti> mmm pear flavored candy
[13:22] <tomaw> I don't know which services commands they use and it should all go smoothly, but it's worth checking
[13:22] <PriceChild> tomaw: I don't think they use services apart from identifying...
[13:22] <tomaw> Okay :)
[13:23] <Seeker`> I know LjL tested the floodbots
[13:23] <PriceChild> tomaw: uses hostmasks and launchpad for authentication... but jussi01 please connect on 9001 to test it ;)
[13:25] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: i know you can make your own mistakes.  they don't all have to be staffer ones.
[13:26] <Hobbsee> you're correct.
[13:26] <PriceChild> So how was this one 'because I am on staff'?
[13:26] <Hobbsee> so i won't blame them on staffer issues
[13:26] <PriceChild> Thankyou.
[13:26] <Hobbsee> i'll account them as the way you tend to behave now, which has drastically changed since you became a staffer.
[13:26] <Hobbsee> which, i'm sure, is purely coincidental.
[13:26] <Hobbsee> not.
[13:27]  * Hobbsee stabs
[13:27] <Hobbsee> where is my windows drive?
[13:27] <bazhang> oy robg
[13:27] <Seeker`> Hobbsee: that was uncalled for
[13:27] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: how, exactly?
[13:27] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: are you going ot tell me that his behaviour has not changed?
[13:29] <Seeker`> because you are pushing a point past being tedious. He unbanned flip because I suggested it, as I was present during the previous incidents. It has absolutely nothing to do with him being staff.
[13:29] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: haven't you figured out that this isn't only about flip yet?  This seems to happen for the great majority of trolls now.
[13:30] <Hobbsee> anyway, i have nothing else, really, to say on this.
[13:30] <PriceChild> Hobbsee: I wasn't aware of the entire history of flipster, I didn't see more than the one ban.
[13:30] <PriceChild> That is why I poked seeker seen as he was around and seemed to be more aware.
[13:30] <PriceChild> If I had seen more than the one active ban, I wouldn't have, and would have said no, wait for whoever banned you
[13:31] <PriceChild> It was a mistake, I didn't research thoroughly.
[13:31] <PriceChild> This has *nothing* to do with me wanting to "catalyse" more as I am a freenode staffer.
[13:31] <Seeker`> Hobbsee: Attacks on people dont help anyone, and I really dont think it is fair to attack PriceChild based on something that I feel is at least in some way my fault
[13:32] <PriceChild> Seeker`: isn't your fault.
[13:32] <PriceChild> I'm sure we can all agree on that :D
[13:33] <bazhang> is robg a bot?
[13:36] <PriceChild> Hobbsee?
[13:36] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: what?
[13:37] <PriceChild> Will you accept the above, or still attribute it to a change in behaviour because I am now staff?
[13:38] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: fine.
[13:38] <Hobbsee> The broader issue of the difference in op behaviours, and why, will presumably wait for another day.
[13:38] <Hobbsee> which is what I was principally interested in.
[13:39] <Seeker`> Hobbsee: do you mean how different ops react in different situations?
[13:39] <PriceChild> I thought you'd left all this behind anyhow.
[13:40] <bazhang> someone care to mediate with robg? he is offering clearly wrong info to new users.
[13:40] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: i wish.  unfortunately, one of the guys spammed ubuntu-devel repeatedly, so it was useful to know if he's actually gone away for good, or if more ops are required, because he's coming back.
[13:41] <PriceChild> When was the last instance of that?
[13:41] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: there just seems to be a massive variance in some of the op stances on what is and is not acceptable.
[13:41] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: which leads to good cop / bad cop situations.
[13:41] <PriceChild> Myself and freenode/staff were added to the access there after the first occurance to hopefully make response quicker next time.
[13:42] <Seeker`> Hobbsee: that can largely be attributed to human nature
[13:42] <Myrtti> bazhang: whuzzup
[13:42] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: i thought there were guidelines?
[13:42] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: as in, "this is how we agree to behave as a group"
[13:42] <Seeker`> Hobbsee: guidelines are just that, guidelines
[13:42] <Seeker`> every case is different
[13:43] <bazhang> Myrtti, the user robg is constantly giving clearly wrong advice to new users
[13:43] <Seeker`> if you can write guidelines that effectively cover every situation thar will ever come up, the feel free
[13:43] <PriceChild> bazhang: have you PMd?
[13:44] <bazhang> PriceChild, I am in a PM with someone needs ubuntu help, as opposed to counciling :)
[13:44] <Seeker`> Hobbsee: but as far as i am aware, there has to be some form of human judgement in each case
[13:44] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: i'm sure there is.
[13:44] <PriceChild> bazhang: suggest someone here starts a PM with robg then?
[13:45] <bazhang> PriceChild, I asked a bit upthread, sorry that I did not specifically ask for anyone by name :)
[13:45]  * Seeker` takes a step backwards to volunteer anyone else that wasn't smart enough to do the same
[13:45] <PriceChild> bazhang: missed it, my mistake :)
[13:46] <PriceChild> i've got to brb half an hour, someone please see what's up with robg
[13:46] <bazhang> PriceChild, more likely mine :)
[13:47] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: heh, smart move.
[13:47] <Seeker`> Hobbsee: well, i'm quite clearly not qualified for this sort of thing
[13:47] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: why?
[13:48] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: everyone is - as you said it's only up to human judgement now :)
[13:48] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: so, there is really no wrong.  i think.
[13:48] <Seeker`> the last person i was involved with was flip, and look where that got us
[13:49] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: no, that just showed the people who were enlightened, and those who were not.
[13:49] <Seeker`> elightened in what manner
[13:49] <Hobbsee> good question.  i was wondering that myself.
[13:50]  * Seeker` is confuddled now
[13:50] <Hobbsee> hehe
[14:04] <bazhang> thanks Myrtti  :)
[14:05] <Myrtti> hum?
[14:14] <bazhang> oh he's back at it again.
[14:14] <bazhang> telling everyone to reinstall.
[14:15]  * PriceChild looks
[14:29]  * Amaranth looks around
[14:29] <Seeker`> o/
[14:31] <Hobbsee> no  looking.  it's all forbidden.
[14:31] <bazhang> thanks PriceChild :)
[14:32]  * Seeker` blindfolds Hobbsee 
[14:33] <Hobbsee> ack!
[15:16] <Gary> how long before smallfoot- is banned?
[15:16] <Seeker`> Gary: where?
[15:17] <bazhang> nanoseconds
[15:17] <Gary> -offtopic and #ubuntu - seems to be mostly okay, but joined with a lot of french
[15:18] <Seeker`> Gary: You can do something about it, can't you?
[15:20] <Gary> Seeker`: I have pm'ed the user
[15:20] <bazhang> Hobbsee, :)
[15:20] <Seeker`> Ienorand: can we help you?
[15:20] <bazhang> oh nice PM from smallfoot now
[15:20] <Ienorand> Hello, I don't seems to be able to join #ubuntu after waiting in [#ubuntu-proxy-users]
[15:20] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: mibbit
[15:20] <Gary> obviously my pm failed
[15:20] <Ienorand> Using mibbit..
[15:21] <Hobbsee> bazhang: you missed one.  got him there
[15:22] <bazhang> Hobbsee, I am mediatin' here! :)
[15:22] <Ienorand> Seeker: Hello?
[15:22] <Hobbsee> bazhang: good luck with that.
[15:22] <Seeker`> @btlogin
[15:23] <Hobbsee> bazhang: i tend to silence them when they start cursing, and wait for them to calm down.
[15:23] <Hobbsee> seems to work quicker.
[15:23] <bazhang> Hobbsee, well it was G-ary's fault :)
[15:23] <Ienorand> Um, could you help me out?
[15:23] <Seeker`> Ienorand: I dont know why you can't get in (i dont know anything about mibbit)
[15:24] <Gary> what was my fault :'(
[15:24] <Hobbsee> bazhang: the guy is trolling in ##windows too.
[15:24] <Hobbsee> Gary: it's *all* your fault.
[15:25] <Seeker`> Hobbsee: bazhang: Can you do anytthing for Ienorand ?
[15:25] <bazhang> Seeker`, should be in proxy-users right?
[15:25] <Ienorand> As I said, I don't seems to be able to join #ubuntu after waiting in [#ubuntu-proxy-users].
[15:25] <Seeker`> bazhang: I dont have a clue
[15:26]  * Hobbsee does it the old manual way
[15:26] <Hobbsee> hey, where's he gone?
[15:26]  * Hobbsee sees no quit or part?
[15:27] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[15:27] <Hobbsee> Ienorand: can you join now?
[15:27] <Ienorand> I am normally able to join Ubuntu after a while... will try
[15:27]  * Seeker` wonders if Hobbsee should take the blindfold off :P
[15:27] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: i thought he started with a lower case L, not an upper case I
[15:27] <Ienorand> Nah, still not able to join...
[15:27] <Ienorand> I get that a lot...
[15:28] <Hobbsee> Ienorand: try now?
[15:28] <Seeker`> Hobbsee: Better fonts ftw
[15:28] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: these are the liberation ones.  i hate serif fonts.
[15:28] <Ienorand> rejoining proxy...
[15:28]  * Seeker` uses Monospace
[15:28] <Hobbsee> there we go.
[15:28] <Seeker`> looks like he is in
[15:28] <Hobbsee> good old manual exceptions...
[15:29] <Gary> Hobbsee: he has moved to #ubuntu-se now
[15:29] <Ienorand> Oh, worked now, thanks guys!
[15:29] <Hobbsee> Ienorand: you're welcome
[15:29] <Seeker`> Ienorand: anything else we can help you with?
[15:30] <Gary> Hobbsee: I think he is going to lose his cloak too
[15:30] <Ienorand> This seems to happen now and then, last time the ops said something about floodboot not having op priviligies being the issue, or something to that matter...
[15:30] <Hobbsee> Gary: hah, i think he might
[15:31] <Hobbsee> oh, shoot.
[15:31] <Seeker`> floodbot2 is opped
[15:31] <Seeker`> but it isn't in -proxy-users
[15:31] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: yeah.  i switched them over in #ubuntu
[15:31] <Seeker`> Hobbsee: cool :D
[15:31] <Hobbsee> Ienorand: thanks - i'm hoping (fingers crossed) it'll work now.
[15:33] <Seeker`> Ienorand: Is that all?
[15:33]  * Hobbsee tries with a proxy
[15:34] <Seeker`> Hobbsee: floodbot just set an exception
[15:34] <Ienorand> Yea, cheers.
[15:34]  * Seeker` points Ienorand to the topic of the channel
[15:35] <Seeker`> -15:33:51- ~s~ mode/#ubuntu [+e mibbitrocks!i=7cbce624@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-dee9015a346a816a] by FloodBot1
[15:35] <Hobbsee> i'm surprised it doesn't issue a invite
[15:35] <Ienorand> Ah, you want me to split.
[15:36] <Hobbsee> so, apart from the invite, it's workign fine
[15:37] <Seeker`> yeah, it would seem so
[15:48] <bazhang> smallfoot understands if he tries more cursing and disruption that the next ban will be longer.
[16:17] <Seeker`> lo LjL
[16:41] <tonyyarusso> PriceChild: Not being aware of the details of the situation is a poor excuse, when you failed to do precisely the thing that would have enlightened you to the details - asking the other ops who had placed the bans.  Since past behavior tells us you know better than for that to be an honest mistake, we have to believe there is something else going on.  If it's not due to being staff, what is it?
[16:44] <Seeker`> tonyyarusso: he talked to me. While I may not be an op in #ubuntu, I was present when the bans were set
[16:44] <tonyyarusso> Seeker`: but didn't set all of them.
[16:45] <Seeker`> no, but I feel able to comment on things, being present (and involved) at the time
[16:45] <tonyyarusso> Seeker`: This is simply yet another in a series of instances where certain people have removed bans without consulting, or even notifying, the placing op.  That is not acceptable, and needs to stop.
[16:45] <tonyyarusso> It is far from being an isolated incident or specific to this particular user.
[16:47] <Seeker`> so because I did not set any of the bans (even though I was involved), my opinions are not valid?
[16:49] <Seeker`> tonyyarusso: ^
[16:53] <Seeker`> if that is the case, there is even less point in me being here than I though
[16:53] <Seeker`> *thought
[16:58] <PriceChild> If past behavior tells you I know better, then I would have hoped past behavior would allow you to trust my recollection of events.
[16:59]  * Seeker` wonders if tonyyarusso is actually going to reply
[17:00] <Myrtti> hello
[17:01] <Seeker`> hi
[17:02] <Myrtti> you all need to sit in the corner and think about what you are saying to each other
[17:02] <Myrtti> pickering gets us nowhere
[17:03] <PriceChild> Of course waiting and asking you guys would have given me more details, however when I looked, I made the decision that there wasn't anything important that I was missing... I was wrong.
[17:03] <Seeker`> meh, i've had enough of this
[17:03] <Seeker`> seeya
[17:06] <Myrtti> okies...
[17:06] <Pici> Can't we all just get along?
[17:06] <Myrtti> Pici: hug me, I feel lonely
[17:06] <Pici> Myrtti: *hugs*
[17:06] <Myrtti> *hugs*
[17:07] <Myrtti> this channel needs a magical black guinea pig rub
[17:07] <Myrtti> to make all the evil stuff go away
[17:07] <Myrtti> *rubrubrub*
[17:07] <Pici> :D
[17:07] <Myrtti> *nudgenudgenudge*
[17:07] <Jack_Sparrow> Pooof
[17:07] <Myrtti> *rubrub*
[17:08] <Myrtti> lost a bit there
[17:08] <Myrtti> *rubrubrub*
[17:09] <Myrtti> those of you who feel stressed out, I can offer a link to ogg-stream of a) soothing summer rainstorm b) forest pond with frogs
[17:12] <Myrtti> @now Helsinki
[17:20] <Pici> odd... I could have sworn I added myself to that, but I didn;t/
[17:25] <nalioth> Some of you guys keep bringing up "catalyzation" as if it's a bad thing
[17:25] <nalioth> but you may not remember that back in the day, we catalyzed first in #ubuntu
[17:26] <nalioth> it makes a lot of difference when folks are talked to, and not just kickbanned because you don't want to talk to them
[17:27] <Myrtti> Pici: we'll end up vouching for each other
[17:40] <Myrtti> humdidumdidum
[17:40] <Myrtti> mwahaha
[17:41] <Myrtti> thankyou verymany
[17:46] <Myrtti> I feel like such an underachiever when I read the wikipages and launchpad pages of others
[17:55] <Myrtti> he's a finn
[17:55] <Myrtti> I'll deal him
[18:01] <Myrtti> that was easy
[18:05] <tonyyarusso> Seeker`: You opinions are valid, just insufficient.
[18:05] <Myrtti> /me hugs Seeker`
[18:05] <tonyyarusso> (I'm in and out today)
[18:05] <Seeker`> tonyyarusso: why are they insufficient?
[18:06] <tonyyarusso> Seeker`: Because they still don't address the long-standing protocol of people removing their own bans.
[18:07] <tonyyarusso> Now, if we're going to just go for a free-for-all where such courtesy doesn't exist, fine, but admit it and let people make their decisions about whether to be part of a group that operates like that or not.
[18:07] <tonyyarusso> Now I must be off to work again.
[18:12] <Seeker`> Does that mean that if someone sets a ban and then disappears for a week, the ban has to stand until the end of the week?
[18:18] <juliux> Myrtti, congratulations that your are on your way to an ubuntu member
[18:19] <Myrtti> well, figured that I might as well be since Mirv is applying too
[18:21] <juliux> heh
[18:21] <Myrtti> I didn't dare to apply when I worked for COSS
[18:22] <Seeker`> Myrtti: why not?
[18:22] <Myrtti> with Novell and Red Hat as paying members of COSS
[18:22] <Myrtti> :-D
[18:22] <Myrtti> but apparently being an Ubuntu member is ok in Nomovok since my team boss is also applying :-P
[18:23] <Myrtti> I would've been probably keelhauled if i had said in public that I hate SuSE
[18:23]  * Seeker` should apply for membership at some point
[18:24] <Myrtti> but then again, then I hadn't any experience of SuSE and yast then
[18:24] <Myrtti> now I have, and I can say I hate SuSE with all my heart
[18:24] <Seeker`> Myrtti++
[18:25] <Myrtti> people who pick the packages to suse are total dimbwits with no idea of what is useful
[18:26] <Myrtti> the worst part is that the people who make the unofficial packages are equally idiotic
[18:26] <Myrtti> sorry, but I've been banging my head on ffmpeg too many times
[18:27] <Seeker`> someone I worked with used SuSE
[18:27] <PriceChild> Myrtti: I'll take ffmpeg, and you can fix my routers
[18:28] <Seeker`> it was about 10x more difficult to get stuff working on his computer than an all the other computers, which ran ubuntu
[18:33] <Myrtti> Pici: "NOTE: YOU SHOULD MOVE YOURSELF TO A REGIONAL BOARD'S AGENDA AND REMOVE FROM THIS (DEPRECATED) LIST"
[18:33]  * PriceChild highfives whoever put that on there, and wonders why nobody did it earlier.
[18:35] <Myrtti> Pici: you must be impatient with your issue since the Americas' meeting is on Thursday :-P
[18:36] <Myrtti> oy
[18:38] <Myrtti> pizza or no pizza
[18:38] <Seeker`> Myrtti: pizza!
[18:43] <Myrtti> !kmix
[18:43] <Myrtti> objections? ^
[18:43] <Seeker`> sounds good
[18:44] <Myrtti> !kmix is KDE's soundcard mixer program. Though small, it is full-featured. The program should give controls for each of your soundcards. KMix supports several platforms and sound drivers. Go to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kmix for complete information.
[18:44] <Myrtti> !kmix > calcmandan
[19:41] <PriceChild> !test
[19:44] <Seeker`> PriceChild: you lose
[19:45] <Seeker`> what exactly does !test test?
[19:45] <PriceChild> Nothing.
[19:45] <PriceChild> I was just checking for lag.
[19:45] <jpds>  Seeker` nothing, it's just a factoid which returns: "Failed!"
[19:45] <PriceChild> Saw it being slow in #ubuntuforums
[19:46]  * jpds goes to watch Doctor Who, later.
[20:23] <Amaranth> @now CEST
[20:23] <Amaranth> @now MESZ
[20:38] <FrancisFarme> hello is this site for support?
[20:39] <FrancisFarme> sorry
[20:42] <jpds> site?
[22:23] <Pici> Myrtti: what who where?
[23:25] <alan_m> the ubotu factoid website is unavailable now?
[23:27] <PriceChild> alan_m: ubotu is gone for a while I'm afraid.
[23:28] <alan_m> yeah, I knew that much, I was just wondering about the factoid website for it, ubottu's factoids seem to be the same so i thought the website could have been kept up.