[07:27]  * mhb waits for Arby to appear
[07:27] <mhb> morning my dears!
[07:27] <mhb> :o)
[07:32] <Nightrose> morning mhb ;-)
[07:33] <mhb> hi Nightrose, what's up?
[07:33] <Nightrose> getting ready for linuxtag
[07:33] <Nightrose> leaving in 1.5 hours
[07:33] <mhb> ah
[07:34] <Nightrose> man I should have stayed for uds - you guys seemed to have fun there ;-)
[07:34] <mhb> oh we so had :o)
[07:34] <Nightrose> :P
[07:37] <mhb> Nightrose: well, sometimes :o)
[07:37] <Nightrose> heh
[07:38] <mhb> Nightrose: sessions are usually quite sessiony
[07:38] <Nightrose> *lol* yea
[07:44] <mhb> Nightrose: is linuxtag just fun or are you planning to do some serious stuff as well?
[07:45] <Nightrose> hmm there will be some discussion on important things of course but it is not like uds for example
[07:46] <Nightrose> hmm and i will work at the amarok/kubuntu/kde booths and do 2 talks together with 2 others
[07:46] <mhb> all in german, right?
[07:47] <Nightrose> there are some english talks as well
[07:47] <Nightrose> like aaron's keynote
[07:49] <mhb> hmm
[07:50] <mhb> I'm not a fan of those, but okay.
[07:51] <Nightrose> of aaron's keynotes? ;-)
[07:51] <mhb> (primarily because I'm not a big fan of plasma, which is more or less what Aaron's KDE4 is.)
[07:51] <Nightrose> hehe
[07:51] <mhb> of keynotes in general, I'd say :o)
[07:51] <Nightrose> ;-)
[07:52] <mhb> well, if Aaron was unveiling some fancy new hardware or a cool finished project, then I'd change my mind :o)
[07:52] <Nightrose> :P we'll see
[07:53] <mhb> "I know nobody has found plasma any more useful than what we had for KDE3. But behold..."
[07:54] <Nightrose> hehe
[07:54]  * Nightrose likes plasma
[07:55] <mhb> Nightrose: likes as in found something that outweights the crashing and the resource use?
[07:56] <Nightrose> doesn't use enough resources here to make me care and doesn't crash einther lately
[07:56] <Nightrose> -n
[07:57] <Nightrose> and the applets that will come with 4.1 are sweet
[07:57] <mhb> like what, the icons?
[07:57] <mhb> I mean that silly file view
[07:58] <Nightrose> yea for example
[07:58] <Nightrose> or the parley applet
[07:58] <mhb> it takes a lot of place and still can't display more than a 10 icons
[07:58] <mhb> a great thing indeed
[07:58] <Nightrose> it can display more than that
[07:59] <mhb> yes, if you resize it so it takes your whole screen, but still, I bet it shows a lot less icons than KDE3 could
[07:59] <mhb> and also, it makes your desktop black
[07:59] <Nightrose> possible - but i stopped using my desktop as a place to store files the day i switched to kde 4
[07:59] <Nightrose> and it was refreshing
[07:59] <mhb> right
[08:00] <nixternal> only windows users store files on their desktop :p
[08:00] <Nightrose> hehe
[08:00] <mhb> nixternal: only short-sighted KDE4 fans say that
[08:00] <mhb> :o)
[08:01] <nixternal> man, I was bashing my head adding some stuff to systemsettings in trunk, especially a freakin' "Help" icon, come to find out there were also settings in ~/.kde4/share/apps/systemsettings that was preventing my changes from appearing
[08:01] <nixternal> silly file locations
[08:01] <Nightrose> heh
[08:01] <mhb> nixternal: hmm, systemsettings
[08:01] <nixternal> I have never in my life stored anything on the desktop...I never get to see it in the first place
[08:02] <nixternal> though, I am not a fan of that icon thing right now in trunk
[08:02] <mhb> nixternal: right, but then again, that's not the approach of most of the people
[08:02] <mhb> I'm so not :o)
[08:03] <nixternal> I close that out first thing, shrink my plasma bar, and rock on
[08:03] <mhb> nixternal: I'm all for being able not to have icons on the desktop, but if we just remove it because you and a bunch of other hardcore KDE guys do it... that's not nice
[08:03] <nixternal> I agree
[08:04] <nixternal> and I must say, that glass theme on kde-look.org for plasma is super hot!
[08:04] <mhb> not just Windows puts icons on the desktop by default, Mac OS X does, too. So all our competitors who are ahead of us in market share do that. Are you really sure we don't want to impress users of those systems?
[08:05] <mhb> GNOME does, too.
[08:05] <nixternal> actually, Vista doesn't put icons on the desktop anymore, and when you do "show all files" type of deal, you get all of the retarded hidden files on the desktop now
[08:05] <nixternal> and if you delete them, you have silly effects next log in
[08:06] <mhb> right, so we're trying to mimic Vista right now?
[08:06] <mhb> is that the plan?
[08:06] <mhb> :o)
[08:06] <mhb> Vista drops it, we drop it?
[08:06] <nixternal> yup
[08:06] <nixternal> I think once that desktop icon thing is fixed up and finalized, it may be different...but as it stands, it is kind of silly
[08:07] <nixternal> and kde3 + compiz || gnome + compiz is way slower than kde4 kwin in trunk
[08:08] <mhb> yes, except a WORKSFORME, b does not
[08:08] <nixternal> well, it is on 3 desktops, one with nvidia, one with ati, and one with intel and it works
[08:08] <nixternal> to bad compiz never had a WORKSFORME
[08:09] <mhb> right, so it's just our desktops :o) anyway
[08:09] <nixternal> anywho, it is 02:00 here and I am dead tired
[08:09] <nixternal> g'nite
[08:09] <mhb> night
[08:11] <Nightrose> good night nixternal
[08:11]  * Nightrose should really get ready
[08:11] <Nightrose> the guys will show up in less than an hour to pick me up
[08:47] <mhb> hey Arby
[08:55] <Arby> morning mhb
[08:56] <mhb> Arby: I've checked out the code
[08:56] <Arby> mhb: and you're opinion is?
[08:56] <mhb> Arby: looks okay
[08:56] <mhb> Arby: I'm not very happy about the aboutdata either
[08:57] <Arby> mhb: I looked at that some more.
[08:57] <mhb> Arby: also, I'm not happy about calling the KIcon directly
[08:57] <Arby> mhb: I could't find a good solution to it
[08:57] <Arby> just a number of equally bad ones
[08:57] <mhb> which is what I did because there's no facility for that in Qt
[08:57] <Arby> mhb: what do you suggest instead for icons?
[08:58] <mhb> well you can access icons via KGlobal, or what's it called in KDE4
[08:58] <mhb> it actually fetches the icon from the icon set, which is better
[08:58] <mhb> provided the icon is actually in the icon theme
[08:59] <Arby> ok, didn't know that
[08:59] <Arby> I'll look into it
[08:59] <Arby> (am at work now)
[08:59] <mhb> right
[08:59] <mhb> take your time, it's no rush
[09:00] <Arby> would the jockey icons be in the standard set, doesn't jockey have it's own icons?
[09:02] <Riddell> you should be able to do just KIcon("foo")
[09:03] <Riddell> most of the icons will be standard icons, others can be installed to the global locations
[09:03] <Arby> Riddell: that's what I did, mhb is advising against it.
[09:04] <mhb> no, actually
[09:04] <Arby> oh, then I miss understood
[09:04] <mhb> Riddell: by "foo" you mean "direct path" or name?
[09:05] <Riddell> just name
[09:05] <Riddell> no path
[09:05] <mhb> right
[09:06] <Arby> ok I see
[09:06] <Arby> I'll look into it
[09:06] <mhb> ok, and one other suggestion
[09:06] <mhb> why are you not using the default jockey-kde branch?
[09:06] <mhb> I mean the one I set up, which any member of kubuntu-users has access to
[09:07] <Arby> because I did't know that until now
[09:07] <Arby> and I didn't want to break anything with novice errors
[09:08] <mhb> that branch is no production code, it's just for us to tweak, and when we think we've got something ready, we'll merge it with the main jockey one
[09:09] <mhb> it's specifically open for everyone so that there aren't 10 branches for jockey-kde just because 10 people did minor fixes on it.
[09:09] <Arby> ok, Is it possible for me to merge my branch with that one?
[09:09] <Arby> and I'll have to join kubuntu-users
[09:09] <Arby> is that an open team?
[09:09] <Riddell> yes
[09:09] <Arby> ok
[09:10] <Arby> right, I have to do $dayjob
[09:10] <Arby> thanks folks
[09:10] <mhb> Arby: it is possible, of course. what branch have you branched from?
[09:10] <Arby> I branched from trunk
[09:11] <mhb> Arby: right, so the best aproach would be to merge trunk into the kubuntu-users branch, then merge your branch into it. See you later!
[09:11] <Arby> ok
[10:08] <kwwii> Riddell: my membership on kubuntu-team is expoiring, can you renew it?
[10:08] <Riddell> looks like you did that yourself "Kenneth Wimer (kwwii) renewed their own membership in the Kubuntu Members"
[10:09] <Riddell> oh, -team
[10:09] <Riddell> just let that expire
[10:09] <Riddell> it's not used
[10:10] <kwwii> ok, will do
[13:31] <nosrednaekim> SSJ_GZ: you rock...
[17:38] <mhb> a bit silent to my taste :o)
[17:39]  * Riddell caught a cold on the train back
[17:40] <Riddell> which hasn't stopped me from doing 4.1 beta packaging
[17:40] <Riddell> but it's still blocked on main inclusion
[17:40] <mhb> Riddell: awww
[17:40] <mhb> Riddell: I also have a bit of cold, nothing really troublesome, but still, I wonder if it's related
[17:41] <Riddell> these conferences always spread germs
[17:41] <Riddell> mhb: still planning on writing that spec?
[17:41] <mhb> Riddell: the userconfig one? Sure, I just forgot about it. Later in the evening is fine?
[17:42] <Riddell> mhb: whenever you have time, just so it's not forgotten about
[17:42] <mhb> as soon as possible then
[17:43] <mhb> otherwise I'll forget again :o)
[17:43] <mhb> hmm, perhaps next time we could look at a nice way to integrate Kontact with a single web service really well, so I could use that, too
[17:44] <mhb> :o)
[17:45] <ScottK> Nothing says you can't exceed what's in the spec if you get motivated. ;-)
[17:46] <mhb> ScottK: right, I'll add it to my list
[17:46] <mhb> #1 for the summer is "find a girlfriend", all the others are Kubuntu-related :o)
[17:47] <ScottK> If you play your cards right, that might be Kubuntu related too.
[17:47] <ScottK> ;-)
[17:47] <mhb> I wish.
[17:48] <Hobbsee> hah
[17:48] <Hobbsee> well, Nightrose is around :P
[17:48] <Hobbsee> ScottK: there are relatively few girls in ubuntuland, and most of them aren't looking for a boyfriend.
[17:49] <mhb> Hobbsee: and of those that do, noone is looking for me :o)
[17:49] <ScottK> Even fewer in Prague.
[17:49] <Hobbsee> ScottK: yeah, well.  i guess elky adn i didn't go this time
[17:49] <Hobbsee> mhb: awww.  tis a hard life.
[17:49] <Hobbsee> it's easier staying single, anyway
[17:49] <mhb> easier maybe
[17:50] <ScottK> It did seem to me, at least subjectively, that there were more women at UDS Intrepid than at UDS Boston, but it was still very few.
[17:50] <mhb> Hobbsee: the negative feeling usually consume a lot of energy which could be used in a productive way otherwise
[17:51] <mhb> s/feeling/feelings/
[17:51] <mhb> anyway, let's get back to topic
[17:51] <mhb> see you around
[17:51]  * mhb disappears
[17:54] <seele> ScottK: there were even fewer at Mountain View so I would call that progress
[17:55]  * ScottK nods.
[18:23] <nixternal> Riddell: are you planning on backporting the 4.1 betas or putting them in a PPA for Hardy?
[18:23] <Riddell> dunno
[18:24] <Riddell> they install into /usr, overwriting the KDE packages
[18:24] <Riddell> so I suspect it would upset people to put them into backports
[18:24] <nixternal> ahh, so maybe it is approaching the time for me to dist-upgrade to Intrepid
[18:24] <nixternal> though it sounds kind of scary :)
[19:00] <nixternal> Riddelll: want me to work on beta packages for hardy? I can toss them into a PPA
[19:01] <Riddell> nixternal: a PPA with them installing to /usr should be easy enough
[19:01] <Riddell> but you'd need to wait for main approval (should be tomorrow) for the complete set
[19:02] <Riddell> decibel, soprano, automox, qimageblitz, cmake, akonadi, strigi, kde4libs, kdepimlibs, kdebase-runtime, kdebase-workspace
[19:02] <Riddell> you can take those now from intrepid
[19:02] <nixternal> well, dunno if we should go the /usr route for hardy
[19:03] <Riddell> installing to /usr/lib/kde4 would be nice, but a good amount of extra work
[19:03] <Riddell> packages need renamed to -kde4 etc
[19:04] <nixternal> did you get my updated key for ftown btw?
[19:04] <nixternal> I still can't login to it
[19:04] <Riddell> I did
[19:04] <Riddell> ssh-rsa AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAABIwAAAQEA0Nnz6p2vOcLG66JDDBrfFAVFPvgxyapJ1HovgnVi+Fut9Zc2Wq/7Ni83A98W53LAFH/Pn4tD5vcWa5/fSH12vcA9rVugJm95lGW3UmN9EwJ9ZxGiWzqMFe8/vAVBOAFDjx9SQrEfFhJ4gaYcfiMKKeECY1HvGYKo/acSZUdxmGkNnS23N8ke1CggafIpSdrU1WYX18ll5ikJ/Q0q4Vpxs/xF4DVWVJBDUWG31n+hIdv4jZ+4hMyMHWOGOT8P/8y7Eif0Z8gd9npWR3S76i2972Ga9SdmToJ10MF3ReFw4kwkMAh5D4ET0eUt7mKXSW2vmqbz4TSUI9QNEh+2+ooE5Q== nixternal@ShakaDoobie
[19:04] <nixternal> ya, I just now logged in :)
[19:04] <nixternal> I couldn't the other day (from konqi), but I just did via sftp
[19:06] <nixternal> I will work on Hardy beta packages using -kde4 and going to /usr/lib/kde4
[19:06] <Riddell> ok, if you're sure you can manage it
[19:06] <Riddell> ~kubuntu-members-kde4 PPA would be best
[19:06] <nixternal> k
[19:07] <nixternal> all I need to do is get decibel, soprano, automox, qimageblitz, cmake, akonadi, and strigi
[19:07] <nixternal> did those install to /usr/lib/kde4 previously?
[19:08] <Riddell> none of those did
[19:08] <nixternal> groovy
[19:08] <Riddell> decibel we took out the KDE bits since there wasn't an easy way to do that
[19:08] <Riddell> automoc by the way
[19:08] <nixternal> what about telepathy and tapioga?
[19:09] <nixternal> tapioca
[19:09] <Riddell> not sure on the versions needed, you'd need to look at the build-deps
[19:14] <nixternal> hrmm, will the ppa's be able to grab qt4 4.4?
[19:15] <Riddell> unlikely
[19:15] <nixternal> that's what I thought
[19:16] <Riddell> hmm, decibel failed to bulid
[19:18] <Riddell> hunger_t: decibel depends on libstreamanalyzer0?
[19:51]  * awen_ finally got his exams over ... back to some kubuntu work
[19:51] <yuriy> yay awen_
[19:51] <awen_> ScottK: when you have time: http://awen.dk/packages/kde-guidance_0.8.0svn20080103-0ubuntu18.debdiff
[19:52] <awen_> hi yuriy
[19:53] <ScottK> yuriy: Just to make sure you know ...  People like you who know what they are doing aren't the target in this current workflow bugs debate.  Personally, I really appreciate your triaging efforts for Kubuntu.
[19:53] <awen_> ScottK: suppose i need it in intrepid before asking for an updated packages for hardy with the changes; or is there no rules about that?
[19:55] <yuriy> ScottK: yep, i realize that. but I don't like the proposed solution and don't like how people who are learning are being treated as a nuissance
[19:56] <ScottK> yuriy: It's not just a nuisance, but sometimes actively harmful.
[19:56] <ScottK> awen_: Yes.  Intrepid first.
[19:58] <ScottK> yuriy: In the earlier discussions the bugsquad people involved seemed to take the view that it was perfectly fine for new triagers to mark all over bugs they had absolutely no understanding of and if it affected developers, too bad.  Workflow bugs aren't real bugs and so shouldn't be there.
[19:58] <ScottK> yuriy: Much of what you read is reaction to this attitude.
[19:59] <awen_> yuriy and ScottK: what i've read until now, you've both tried to settle the "dispute", and said some very sensible things, keeping the good tone all the way ... just my seeings from the sideline; and thanks to both of you for that!
[19:59] <yuriy> ScottK: was this on IRC because I've been reading the whole thread on the bugsquad list (albeit not too attentively until yesterday)
[19:59] <awen_> ScottK: i'll wait for your sponsorship before doing further then :)
[19:59] <ScottK> yuriy: That an heno unilaterally reverted an attempt to document such bugs. in the wiki.
[19:59] <ScottK> yuriy: Much of it was on IRC, also on some other lists.  Many developers (including me) aren't on the bugsquad list.
[20:08] <seele> hmm.. no Artemis today
[20:08]  * seele wonders how kgrubeditor is going
[20:09] <seele> Riddell: youre my friend now!
[20:10]  * seele . o (out of context that sounds weird..)
[20:19]  * yuriy figures it has something to do with facebook
[20:19] <nixternal> Riddell: are the qt4 packages in your ppa 4.4.0 the same that is in -proposed or wherever it is?
[20:19] <nixternal> I see you can use other repos to satisfy deps in ppa, to bad you can't use -proposed and such
[20:21] <nixternal> nevermind, it is just RC in your ppa
[20:24] <ScottK> nixternal: You can depend on other PPAs.  There's a setting for it in the LP PPA U/I.
[20:24] <ScottK> You have to specify.
[20:25] <nixternal> ya, to bad nobody has the latest qt4 in one...so I will just grab the hardy-backport one and put it into the ppa to satisfy deps
[20:26] <nixternal> should I leave it at the same version that is in -backports or add a ~ppa1 to it?
[20:26] <ScottK> I'd add ~ppa1 so you can increment the revision in the PPA if you need to.
[20:27] <nixternal> true
[20:43] <ScottK> Riddell: I was wondering if I could trouble you to process Bug #221178 for feisty-backports?  It's been sitting there quite some time and it's relevant to a problem I was helping a user with today.
[20:46] <yuriy> lol @ bug 235171
[20:47] <nareshov> hehe
[20:47] <awen_> yuriy: lol :D
[20:48] <nixternal> alright, qt4 uploaded to the ppa, now I will be able to get down to business once that puppy builds
[20:48]  * ScottK hands nixternal a long book to read.
[20:49] <nixternal> shoot, I might as well grab every book ever published
[20:49] <stdin> nixternal: shame i didn't see that before /me built qt4 in his ppa
[20:49] <nixternal> oh thanks stdin for telling me now :p
[20:49] <stdin> sorry :)
[20:49] <nixternal> qt4 is already in hardy-backports
[20:50] <stdin> I just added ~ppa1 to the backport version though, then i don't need to re-download it all again
[22:42] <ScottK> Riddell: Thanks for the backport.
[23:12] <mhb> evening
[23:25] <apachelogger> re
[23:32] <nixternal> Riddell: did you fix akonadi yet?
[23:35] <nixternal> I just added \|hardy to the one line in kde.mk to get it to build, or I could just remove that line
[23:36]  * nixternal just removed the line
[23:41] <nixternal> well, if everything goes OK, I should have kdelibs - kdebase backported for Beta 1
[23:41] <nixternal> s/backported/put into the kde4 ppa
[23:41] <nixternal> all deps have been uploaded
[23:52] <apachelogger> nixternal: what's the problem with akonadi?
[23:54] <nixternal> there was a line checking to make sure that it wasn't getting installed to unstable
[23:54] <nixternal> in kde.mk
[23:54] <nixternal> just removed it and left the clean:: statment there
[23:57]  * nixternal goes for food then comes back to kde4 beta for hardy :)
[23:57] <apachelogger> :)
[23:57] <DreadKnight> where/when will we find 4.1 beta 1 packages guys? :-)
[23:58] <apachelogger> when they are done
[23:58] <apachelogger> in some repository
[23:58] <DreadKnight> xD
[23:58] <DreadKnight> right :-)
[23:59]  * apachelogger likes how cmake 2.6 cut down make install to changed files