[05:27] <DanaG> Random: http://www.driverheaven.net/insideati/index.htm
[18:15] <Cimi> kwwii, ping
[19:16] <kwwii> Cimi: pong
[19:17] <kwwii> Cimi: I'm cooking my son dinner but will be checking irc every now and then
[19:33] <Cimi> the murrine code is quite complete, I mean it could not be so complicated to get something similar to your mockups with transparency. The problem is that Gtk+ requires a patch to globally set a RGBA colormap, to enable transparency (and with transparency rounded menus and so on).
[19:33] <Cimi> actually a guy is working on this, but I don't think we could get a patch for gtk before its freeze (one month).
[19:34] <Cimi> I'm searching for a coder, maybe you know someone who can help us for the intrepid look
[20:14] <kwwii> Cimi: wow, cool....with intrepid we can play a lot more with the code and probably include more last minute ideas...if we don't get rgba in in time, I guess there is little we can do about that
[20:14] <kwwii> Cimi: have you talked to macslow about the rgba stuff?
[20:14] <Cimi> just a bit
[20:14] <kwwii> I imagine he might be able to help (or perhaps njpatel)
[20:15] <Cimi> he seems to be busy with gdm
[20:15] <kwwii> yeah, I can imagine
[20:15] <kwwii> and niel is busy doing mobile stuff
[20:15] <kwwii> maybe I should talk to seb and vincent and see what they think
[20:15] <Cimi> if we can't propose the patches in time (july) we won't have something for intrepid
[20:16] <Cimi> actually the problem is with the gtkstatusicons
[20:16] <Cimi> because the current freedektop specification doesn't consider the possibility to use a RGBA colormap
[20:17] <Cimi> and gtk, which is following this patch, will fail trough a Xorg Badmatch
[20:17] <kwwii> ouch
[20:17] <Cimi> so we should need to fix this, then few minor things
[20:17] <Cimi> if someone like njpatel or mirco could work on this
[20:18] <kwwii> I think we need to contract someone to take care of this stuff but it is really hard for me to convince mark without showing him something first
[20:18] <Cimi> I think there no reason to doubt that we will reach to patch gtk in time
[20:18] <Cimi> It's not something that require a contract
[20:18] <Cimi> imho
[20:19] <kwwii> well, if it were up to me I would throw money at you to code all the crack I can think up :p
[20:19] <kwwii> lol
[20:19] <Cimi> should not be difficult to do
[20:19] <Cimi> lol
[20:19] <kwwii> I'll send mirco, niel and yourself an email opening up this discussion, maybe one of them can find some time
[20:20] <Cimi> I can't for sure
[20:21] <Cimi> neil and mirco are already payed
[20:21] <Cimi> so they can work on it, isn't it?
[20:21] <kwwii> yeah, the main problem is that they are both working on projects which mark wants to see in intrepid so I am not sure how much time they will have
[20:22] <kwwii> I might be able to talk niel into it even though he is not on the desktop team
[20:22] <kwwii> he might do it in his spare time
[20:23] <kwwii> I am putting a dark murrine theme together now and will put it in intrepid in a day or two
[20:23] <kwwii> so maybe I can show that to mark, even as a mockup of it using transparency and convince him
[20:24] <Cimi> kwwii, start using murrine from svn for your tests
[20:24] <Cimi> I will make a development release in the middle of august
[20:24] <kwwii> Cimi: which svn is it in?
[20:24] <kwwii> and is there any instructions on building it or is it straight forward?
[20:25] <kwwii> hrm, google doesn't seem to be much help in finding the svn
[20:25] <Cimi> svn co http://svn.gnome.org/svn/murrine/trunk murrine && cd murrine && ./autogen.sh --prefix=/usr && sudo make install
[20:26] <Cimi> it will overwrite your murrine installation, uninstall the ubuntu deb
[20:27] <kwwii> cool, thanks for the help
[20:29] <Cimi> kwwii, gnome-system-monitor should be transparent
[20:30] <Cimi> btw use of transparency highly depends on the blur effect of compiz
[20:30] <Cimi> without it, transparency is unusable
[20:31] <Cimi> there are a lot of new things in murrine which you might like
[20:31] <Cimi> one is custom gradients for buttons and other widgets
[20:31] <Cimi> gradients ={ 1,0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0 } will define a flat theme for example
[20:32] <kwwii> is there any info on tweaking the new stuff?
[20:33] <Cimi> not actually
[20:33] <Cimi> and maybe I will change few names...
[20:33] <Cimi> btw the code explains better
[20:34] <kwwii> hehe, use the code luke :-)
[20:50] <giusef> hi all
[20:51] <giusef> kwwii: I was working on that RGBA patch for GTK+ that Cimi told you before
[20:52] <giusef> we had a bad issue with GtkStatusIcon, which seems won't work with RGBA colormaps
[20:52] <giusef> the main problem is that
[20:53] <giusef> forcing GtkStatusIcon with a RGBA colormap just to try, we had a small, not embedded, window with the tray icon inside
[20:56] <kwwii> giusef: hrm, not that much of a hacker really
[20:56] <kwwii> giusef: if you want to be part of the conversation around this at ubuntu, send me an email
[20:58] <Cimi> kwwii, at the moment he is the guy that knows better than everyone else the issues
[21:06] <kwwii> giusef: do you have any idea of what we would need to do to get it working right?
[21:11] <giusef> kwwii: not really, atm
[21:18] <kwwii> giusef: hrm, so how could I help you to get this stuff done (other than learn C)?
[21:18] <kwwii> :-)
[21:18] <giusef> lol
[21:19] <Cimi> kwwii, maybe helping him contacting other devs
[21:21] <kwwii> giusef, Cimi: right, I think that we should start off by having a discussion between anyone and everyone who has an idea of what needs to be done
[21:21] <kwwii> giusef: my email is kwwii at ubuntu dot com, can you send me an email so I have your address?
[21:21] <giusef> sure
[21:22] <kwwii> cool, thanks
[21:36] <andreasn> Cimi: was this issue brought up on gtk-devel list?
[21:37] <Cimi> don't think so
[21:37] <Cimi> you should ask giusef
[21:37] <giusef> kwwii: sent
[21:37] <andreasn> giusef: did you send any e-mail about this to gtk-devel-list?
[21:38] <giusef> no, I was thinking about that
[21:39] <andreasn> I think it would be a good idea, someone should probably be able to give you hints on how to get around your problems
[21:40] <giusef> yeah
[21:40] <giusef> I go to write
[21:41] <andreasn> rockn!
[22:31] <DanaG> Oh yeah, speaking of rgba: the wallpaper settings (through Nautilus) should allow RGBA.
[22:31] <DanaG> That'd let people use semitransparent backgrounds, or wholly transparent backgrounds.
[22:37] <giusef> why a trasparent background?
[22:38] <DanaG> It'd let me do things like having a transparent window into my compiz cube.
[22:38] <DanaG> Or have a cool only-halfway-there side to the cube.
[22:38] <Cimi> oh ugly and useless
[22:39] <DanaG> No, it'd also let people use the different-wallpaper-per-side plugin.
[22:39] <DanaG> That'd just need a 100% transparent wallpaper.
[22:39] <DanaG> er, color.
[22:39] <DanaG> It's only ugly if you use ugly images for it,
[22:39] <DanaG> .
[22:49] <darkmatter> the cube is useless for anything other than a 'wow' effect. imho the default view should be a 2x2 arrangement on a plane, not only does it offer more functionality, but it makes more sense
[22:50] <Cimi> mmm
[22:50] <Cimi> I'm for the 1x4
[22:51] <darkmatter> well, either way. all the desktops should be viewable on switch
[22:51] <darkmatter> the reason I prefer 2x2 is less mouse travel
[23:05] <DanaG> I like cube, myself.
[23:05] <DanaG> Plus, it's amusing having fish inside it.
[23:05] <Cimi> -.-
[23:06] <Cimi> maybe we have a different ideas about what is a desktop
[23:06] <DanaG> Yeah, I know I'm a bit silly sometimes.