[00:07] <Circe> I have been impressed with everything so far!
[00:29]  * lns just wanted to see if there was a central issue regarding gutsy -> hardy upgrade and "Internal Error - Failed to initialize HAL", plus "Gnome-settings-daemon" crashes upon login (logging in via VNC, but don't think that should matter.. ? )
[02:04] <Cyndre> Simple question - does anyone have a torrent link for the desktop cd, or am I faced to suffer 30 kb/s download speeds?
[02:06] <Circe> torrent.ubuntu.com
[02:07] <Circe> there is some more to the address.
[02:07] <Circe> I usually google "ubuntu torrents"
[02:08] <Circe> the quickest method is get the desktop ubuntu torrent and the edubuntu add on torrent.
[02:10] <Circe> here is the address for all the torrents... torrent.ubuntu.com/6969/
[02:11] <Circe> I had 1mb/s on both the desktop distro and the addon cd
[02:12] <Cyndre> ty circe, setting up a spare comp for the kids
[02:14] <Circe> same here, I am a school teacher setting up donated hardware in my classroom. Using edubuntu because for the kids!
[02:16] <Cyndre> Circle: dual xeon 1.7 ghz 2 gigs of ram - should run nice?
[02:17] <Cyndre> Circle: Was just getting 1.5 Mb/s then it dropped to a third
[02:19] <Circe> yeah def. my edubuntu install is dual core 1.6 ghz with 1 gig of ram. Runs like a charm. Full desktop effects.
[02:19] <Circe> it flucuated for me as well.
[02:20] <Circe> the add on cd took longer than the regular distro. I think because more people are seeding the distro then the add on.
[02:20] <Cyndre> Circe: Not as nice as yours, (old school dual cpu xeon)
[02:20] <Cyndre> Circe: got the add on alread
[02:22] <Circe> mine is a cheapo Acer that could not run Vista. I wiped the drive and installed Ubuntu. Can't believe how much more the computer can do now!
[02:23] <Circe> nice.  Which ubuntu torrent did you choose?
[02:23] <Cyndre> Desktop, 8.04
[02:24] <Circe> the quickest for me was the i386 desktop cd 8.04. I must of had 120 seeders.
[02:24] <Circe> what torrent client are you using?
[02:26] <Circe> I use transmission.
[02:26] <Circe> I find it to be lightweight and straight forward.
[02:26] <Circe> uTorrent and Azureus are more popular I believe.
[02:28] <Guest3883536> hmmm
[02:28] <Guest3883536> that was wierd
[02:28] <Guest3883536> ahhh - hitting 2 mb/s download right now
[02:28] <Circe> what happened?
[02:29] <Circe> it should be done any minute then.
[02:29] <Guest3883536> 30 seconds
[02:30] <Cyndre> yay done
[02:30] <Circe> when I had those speeds I went ahead and snagged the DVD as well. 3 gigs but has some more apps on it.
[02:30] <Circe> nice
[02:30] <Cyndre> I can't believe I used to wait 3 days for 700 megs before
[02:31] <Circe> LOL. Now you can be done in minutes.
[02:33] <Circe> are you installing on a desktop or laptop?
[02:33] <Cyndre> desktop
[02:37] <Cyndre> so much for that plan :( no blank cd roms - have 100 or so blank dvds dammit
[07:06] <kwak> is there a linux software that is like Adobe Visual COmmunicator or Varasoftware VideoCur
[07:06] <kwak> Video Cue
[07:59] <bimberi> !hi
[11:16] <RichEd> hi ogra ... you around & about & feeling better today ?
[11:19] <stgraber> what time is today's meeting ?
[11:21] <RichEd> stgraber: i'm in a sprint ... so I won't be in the meeting ... you'll need to check with ogra
[11:21] <stgraber> isn't ogra at Linuxtag in Berlin ?
[15:39] <ogra> stgraber, RichEd, i have slight fever and stayed in bed most of the day, feeling a bit better now but surely not in the condition to run meetings
[15:41] <RichEd-2> ogra: np ... what time was the meeting meant to be ?
[15:42]  * RichEd-2 is in the commercial sprint all day & into the evening
[15:48] <highvoltage> omg, what happened to RichEd-1!? has he been replaced?
[15:49] <johnny> no. incremented
[15:49] <johnny> he's +1 good now
[15:51] <highvoltage> ah, shew. that's fine then.
[15:57]  * RichEd-2 the bot marvels at the wit & wisdom of the humanoids
[16:17] <RichEd-2> and ... RichEd-2 woul,
[16:17] <RichEd-2> oops
[16:18] <RichEd-2> and ... RichEd-2 would in fact by RichEd-1 decremented no ?
[16:28] <OculusAquilae> hi
[16:28] <OculusAquilae> How ist the KDE-Version of Edubuntu going?
[16:46] <RichEd-2> OculusAquilae:  ? what do you mean by that ?
[16:48] <OculusAquilae> RichEd-2: Are storage devices on the thin clients shown in the dolphin device list?
[16:49] <RichEd-2> if you are using KDE, then you would be able to insert add/remove any or all of the education applications onto your system
[16:49] <OculusAquilae> In 7.10 they are only mounted to /media/$USER
[16:49] <OculusAquilae> LTSP
[16:49] <OculusAquilae> is the problem
[16:53] <ogra> OculusAquilae, not until KDE gets fixed to monitor /media properly
[16:54] <OculusAquilae> ogra: ???
[16:54] <ogra> there are hacks floating around to put links on your desktop while thats a very nasty way of doing it and wouldnt be accepted as upstream default, you can use it as workaround
[16:54] <OculusAquilae> ogra: kde displays file systems depending on hal I think
[16:54] <ogra> OculusAquilae, ltspfs doesnt use hal
[16:54] <ogra> it relies on the desktop to monitor /media
[16:55] <ogra> which xfce and gnome do well
[16:55] <OculusAquilae> ogra: on gnome there are hacks
[16:55] <RichEd-2> you'd need to check with ogra or riddel on that level of detail
[16:56] <ogra> RichEd, its simply that KDE is the only desktop not monitoring that dir ...
[16:57] <OculusAquilae> ogra: Isn't gnome using such a ubuntu-specific hack itself
[16:57] <ogra> no
[16:58] <ogra> gnome uses gvfs and did use gnome-vfs before
[16:58] <ogra> which both simply use inotify of teh kernel for monitoring /media
[16:58] <OculusAquilae> ogra: ok
[16:59] <OculusAquilae> ogra: and there is no possibility to let it be done by kde like this?
[16:59] <ogra> anyway, i think debian added an lts.conf option, and the link code (just saw that there) i'll see that we can get it into 8.10
[17:00] <ogra> well, the KDE backend would have to do the same but as i was told it acts on an abstract layer way abouve what gnome-vfs or gvfs do
[17:00] <ogra> so thats apparently not easily possible
[17:00] <OculusAquilae> ogra: so, you suppose to choose another distro?
[17:01] <ogra> my idea was to rewrite ltspfs to use faked hal devices, but thats still in its early stages and i dont have much time anymore for ltsp development at all
[17:01] <ogra> OculusAquilae, ???
[17:01] <ogra> what would another distro change here ?
[17:01] <OculusAquilae> ogra: perhaps they solved this problem
[17:01] <ogra> they wont have a different KDE and still the same ltsp
[17:01] <OculusAquilae> I could at least try
[17:02] <OculusAquilae> ogra: you said that debian had something like this
[17:02] <ogra> sure try what you like, fedora has just released a very basic implementation of ltsp with fc9 (their first attempt)
[17:02] <OculusAquilae> would it be possible to do this on debian
[17:02] <ogra> debian has the same LTSP and KDE packages
[17:03] <ogra> but they added the five line hack to add links on user desktops
[17:03] <OculusAquilae> ok
[17:03] <ogra> its a trivial handfull of python code you can add to ltspfsmounter
[17:03] <ogra> (i guess yu can even do it in one line if you hardcode it)
[17:03] <OculusAquilae> why not doing this for ubuntu too?
[17:04] <OculusAquilae> The problem is that I don't want to provide security updates myself
[17:04] <ogra> because we dont add lnks to devices on desktops if there is a volume management backend doing that better ... i like to not hack around stuff but fix it
[17:05] <ogra> use dpkg-divert on /usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter to prevent your thing from being overwritten
[17:05] <ogra> anyway, as i said we'll add hist code for the lts.conf option to the 8.10 ltspfs
[17:05] <OculusAquilae> ogra: thanks for the information
[17:06] <OculusAquilae> ogra: is it in debian stable?
[17:06] <ogra> oh, and indeed you need debian unstable for these hacks ... that wont get you into the problem of caring for security updates :P
[17:06] <ogra> its pretty new hackish code
[17:06] <OculusAquilae> unstable, hm
[17:08] <OculusAquilae> ogra: do you know if it is in ltsp-server ?
[17:08] <ogra> no
[17:08] <ogra> it is in ltspfs
[17:09] <OculusAquilae> thanks
[17:09] <ogra> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltspfs/ltspfs-trunk/annotate/vagrant%40freegeek.org-20080302225903-rmrn56huy46yyuwf?start_revid=wtogami%40redhat.com-20080428224302-dkxj5o7wkmjvmh50&file_id=kdedesktopicons-20080302225737-q6d8ttvp6y7nfi4a-2
[17:09] <ogra> thats the code
[17:10] <OculusAquilae> thanks
[17:13] <OculusAquilae> ogra: This code will be executed automatically by ltspfs?
[17:13] <OculusAquilae> in /etc/ltspfs/mounter.d ?
[17:13] <ogra> no idea, i havent used it yet, it smells like you also need support for ltspfs.d or so
[17:14] <ogra> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltspfs/ltspfs-trunk/revision/vagrant%40freegeek.org-20080302080458-7hthsgddljqju2x8?start_revid=wtogami%40redhat.com-20080428224302-dkxj5o7wkmjvmh50
[17:14] <ogra> seems to be that snippet
[17:14] <ogra> i'D really just add an ln command to ltspfsmounter
[17:14] <ogra> its hackish anyway
[17:15] <ogra> link on "ltspfsmounter add" rm on "ltspfsmounter remove/cleanup"
[17:15] <ogra> two lines
[17:17] <OculusAquilae> hm
[17:20] <OculusAquilae> I'll look at it
[17:22] <ogra> note that neither the patch nor just adding links will give you proper device icons
[17:22] <ogra> tehy are linked folders
[17:23] <OculusAquilae> ogra: better than 15 children not finding their cds
[17:25] <ogra> well, you could generally put a link to /media/$USER on their deesktops ... a non dynamic one and give it  descriptive name
[17:25] <ogra> *a descriptive
[17:26] <OculusAquilae> that's right, we thought about this possibility
[17:27] <ogra> best would indeed be if all desktops would use the same way for handling devices :)
[17:27] <ogra> but i didnt find any open ear in the KDE community yet
[17:28] <OculusAquilae> ogra: why doesn't gnome use the kde way would be a possibility
[17:28] <ogra> especially since all devs are busy getting 4.0 into usable shape
[17:28] <ogra> because there are more desktops using the gnome way ... its a matter of amount of changes you hae to do in different places
[17:29] <OculusAquilae> ogra: I am using 4.0.4
[17:29] <ogra> the 4.0 rewrite would have been the perfect opportunity to unify here
[17:29] <OculusAquilae> that could be right
[17:29] <ogra> my personal main target is using hal for ltspfs anyway though ... as i said above
[17:30] <ogra> but i have approximately 2-3h a week left to work on ltsp which mostly just goes into basic fixes
[17:30] <OculusAquilae> ogra: then it would work on kde too?
[17:30] <ogra> and reimplementing ltspfs will take more
[17:31] <ogra> well, then you would see something like that http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltspfs-hal-root.png
[17:31] <ogra> with all devices being added as fake blockdevices in hal
[17:31] <ogra> thats using a way higher level then the kernel inotify mechanism
[17:31] <ogra> and afaik KDE listens to hal for its devices
[17:32] <ogra> (that might have changed with 4.x as well, the last time i actually touched KDE personally was around 1.2 ... but thats the info i got from KDE folks)
[17:33] <OculusAquilae> ok
[17:34] <ogra> my persona ocus simply isnt on KDe integration and unless someone from a KDE dev crew steps up to help out we wont solve the prob other than switching to the hal method i think
[17:34] <ogra> *personal focus
[17:36] <ogra> ... or hack around it like with adding links to user desktops which wil get funny if your client just crashed once and the link wasnt removed
[17:36] <ogra> (or if the user didnt log out properly etc)
[17:37] <OculusAquilae> right, another problem
[17:38] <OculusAquilae> I think hal would be a good thing to use
[17:39] <ogra> right, but requires extra time i dont have .... and nobody else is working on that stuff ... debian prefers to add the hacks it seems so we waste manpower on workarounds that would better have been invested in doing the real fix ... but well, you cant tell volunteers where to invest their time :)
[17:39] <ogra> and its stil better than nothing apparently
[17:41] <OculusAquilae> Isn't it possible to write such a script for ltspfs to broadcast device information via hal
[17:42] <ogra> well, thats essentially what my change does ... but it has to happen in the suid binary which needs detailed auditing to not introduce security holes
[17:43] <ogra> the screenshot you saw essentially calls hal-add-device with the right parameters from the suid binary of ltspfs (lbmounter)
[17:43] <ogra> err lbmount
[17:43] <ogra> its not easy to get right if you dont want all the code in the suid bit
[17:44] <OculusAquilae> hm right
[17:44] <ogra> lbmount is already 300 lines of C .... i dont want to make it 1500
[17:45] <ogra> ese the security team will kill me to have to audit it for every release
[17:45] <ogra> *else
[17:47] <OculusAquilae> :)
[17:47] <ogra> we'll get there eventually :)
[17:47] <ogra> plans and ideas are there ... its just a matter of time
[17:48] <ogra> (and sadly i'm hogged with business stuff since 8.04 which limits my time to work on extra stuff like ltsp, but i'm confident someone will step up to help if i dont make it at some point)
[17:50] <ogra> RichEd, btw, did you see adams mail ? i really wonder why we talked for days about all these issues, seems he didnt understand that 8.04 is done and over
[17:50] <RichEd> ogra: let me check now ... been in meetings all day]
[17:51] <ogra> ah
[17:51] <ogra> i answered already but t seems to me that he didnt understand much of what we discussed about and agreed on
[19:43] <OculusAquilae> ogra: Thanks that you helped me to understand the situation. I wrote an email to our deciders with this information.
[20:16] <monteslu_> did something with jetpipe change recently that requires authentication or anything like that?
[20:20] <monteslu_> my lts.conf is bad
[20:20] <monteslu_> isn't # the comment character?
[20:21] <monteslu_> I'm getting a syntax error on  a commented line
[20:33] <johnny> don't think you can have comments inside the [default]
[20:33] <johnny> or in any other []
[20:33] <johnny> only at the top perhaps
[20:34] <monteslu_> think that's right
[20:34] <monteslu_> took out the comments on individual clients and its good now
[20:34] <monteslu_> should file that as a bug :)
[20:34] <monteslu_> thanks
[20:39] <moquist> ogra: ping
[21:20] <monteslu> moquist, you still doing smbldap things?
[21:20] <monteslu> summer's coming and its time for me to rebuild my smbldap server :)
[21:21] <monteslu> fedora 5 worked well, but its four versions old now
[21:21] <moquist> hi there
[21:21] <moquist> yep, I'll get hardy working before the summer is out
[21:21] <monteslu> would like to base it on centos or ubuntu lts this time
[21:21] <monteslu> sweet
[21:21] <moquist> But seriously, if you don't have a reason to upgrade your LDAP server, don't.
[21:21] <monteslu> well, its a little flaky
[21:22] <monteslu> i've had to do database recovers on just about every reboot
[21:22] <moquist> Hardy *may* be better, then.
[21:22] <moquist> Maybe.
[21:22] <monteslu> centos 5 is my current favorite in server OS's, but whatever you want to build a script for works for me :)