[00:17] <nixternal> apachelogger: is cmake 2.6 a tad bit faster to you?
[00:18] <apachelogger> install of kdebase certainly is
[00:18]  * yuriy tries synaptic again and wonders why people would want to use it over adept, lack of error handling and all
[00:19] <mhb> yuriy: they are used to it?
[00:19] <nixternal> apt-get rules them all!
[00:22] <apachelogger> <3 apt-get
[00:22]  * jtechidna has to use a GUI whenever an update needs to install new packages
[00:25] <DreadKnight> shaman soon ftw i hope! xD
[00:25] <DreadKnight> jtechidna: me too... stupid bug i guess
[00:52] <seele> ScottK: what's this i hear about hillary talking about assasination during the campaign?
[00:52] <seele> ScottK: all the media is talking mccain and obama.. hillary is no where to be found
[00:52] <seele> ScottK: i guess this means you're voting for mccain, eh?
[01:04] <nixternal> hope I got everything kdelibs :)
[01:04] <nixternal> man, alot of new stuff
[01:10] <yuriy> hi seele
[01:11] <yuriy> i'm wondering about the package install progress display stuff
[01:11] <mhb> yuriy: please don't make it any complex than a simple progress bar is
[01:12] <mhb> yuriy: just installing... and a progress bar, that's all the user needs to know before he panics :o)
[01:12] <nosrednaekim> the one in the apept is way too complicated.
[01:12] <nosrednaekim> *adept
[01:12] <yuriy> mhb: that's what i'd like to do...
[01:13] <seele> yuriy: hallo
[01:14] <yuriy> seele: remember the discussion and screenshots? did you get my answers to your questions?
[01:14] <seele> yuriy: probably not, wasn't that a few days ago?
[01:14] <yuriy> yeah
[01:14] <seele> i probably don't have it in my buffer anymore either
[01:15] <yuriy> < seele> yuriy: some of this may repeat what you discussed earlier
[01:15] <yuriy> 04:19 < seele> yuriy: are there only two progress bars?
[01:15] <yuriy> 04:19 < seele> yuriy: and can you cancel during reading package lists?
[01:15] <yuriy> < yuriy> seele: on the download part there is one total download progress bar and another one above it that appears and disappears (yuck) per download. on the other 2 screens it's just the one progress bar in the center, but it resets a couple times
[01:15] <yuriy> 12:20 < yuriy> seele: on the last stage (where you see "reading package lists" in the screenshots, that text changes) you can't cancel
[01:15] <yuriy> 12:21 < yuriy> and tbh I don't know what the two buttons on the middle screen are supposed to be
[01:16] <seele> yeah.. i would say they could be the same progress bar in the same location, but disabling or removing the cancel button during the reading package lists process would be weird
[01:17] <seele> if reading package lists didn't take so long, i would say we could maybe just fake it and if someone clicks cancel, you just cancel once the reading is done
[01:17] <seele> but it can take more than a few seconds
[01:18] <yuriy> seele: that's the last step. it's just finishing up doing a little work, you can't cancel because everything is done
[01:19] <yuriy> seele: my question is first of all, if there's one progress bar for everything, what's the verdict on not so great approximations?
[01:19] <yuriy> or is it better to reset it for the different stages
[01:21] <seele> i dont think approximations matter if there is obvious progress
[01:21] <seele> for example, if it is a two stage installation process, even if the first stage takes longer than the second stage, i think it would be acceptable to have the first stage end at 50%
[01:22] <seele> or whatever makes the most sense (i just picked 50%)
[01:22] <seele> the important information would be how many packages out of total are complete.. that is more accurate than guessing something like time
[01:22] <yuriy> seele: hmm, ok, i was thinking that too, but mornfall didn't agree. i'll ask him about it again when he's around
[01:23] <seele> yuriy: i dont think it matters if it isnt accurate as long as it is reasonable
[01:23] <seele> yuriy: so if you have 30 updates, maybe the first stage would be 1/31 instead of 1/2
[01:23] <yuriy> then the issue of other progress details
[01:23] <yuriy> 14:54 < yuriy> well, what i was actually imagining is hiding things behind a translucent overlay with an overall progress bar,and a button to move the overlay out of the way which would send the progress bar to the bottom
[01:23] <seele> but you would still only keep track of the number of packages, and provide 1/30 packages, 2/30 packages, etc
[01:24] <seele> hmm.. i'm not sure what that means
[01:24] <seele> you mean animating a layer that has more information when the user requests it?
[01:27] <yuriy> sort of.  display whatever details there are on screen at all times, but have a progressbar in the middle of the screen displaying the overall progress, and the background faded. then a button to animate the progress bar away
[01:27] <yuriy> so kind of the reverse of what you said
[01:28] <yuriy> seele: i started working on it, it would look something like this: http://www.yktech.us/temp/adept5.png
[01:34] <seele> yuriy: i see three progress bars?  or am i missing the point without animation?
[01:35] <yuriy> seele: see how the bottom ones are greyed out? they are part of what I mean by "details"
[01:36] <yuriy> cancel buttom would have to be moved of course
[01:36] <yuriy> and that 0% should be something like 11% but it's not working yet
[01:40] <seele> hmm
[01:40] <yuriy> this is just an idea I had. very open to other ideas to improve on the jumping around progress
[01:52] <ScottK> seele: Dunno.  IIRC it's statistically extraordinarily improbably that Hillary could win and has been for some time.  If she's starting to be ignored, I'm not suprised.  She's not really news anymore.
[01:52] <ScottK> I haven't heard anything about assassination.
[01:52] <ScottK> Oh, wait.  I did.
[01:53] <ScottK> She just said something awkward and then the media made a mountain out of a molehill.
[01:53]  * ScottK remembers now.
[02:12] <seele> yeah
[02:27] <nixternal> jeesh, kdelibs still building
[02:31] <jtechidna> damn, them ppa servers be sloooow
[02:31] <nixternal> more like my laptop be sloooow :)
[02:32] <jtechidna> ah, I see. ;)
[02:32] <jtechidna> Sysinfo for 'jonathan-desktop': Linux 2.6.24-17-generic running KDE 3.5.9, CPU: Intel(R)Celeron(R)CPU2.50GHz at 2500 MHz (5004 bogomips), , RAM: 615/622MB, 125 proc's, 14.25h up
[02:32] <jtechidna> lolwut, I'm running 4.0.4
[02:32] <nixternal> are you using konversation?
[02:32] <jtechidna> Oh, but with KDE3 konversation..,
[02:33] <nixternal> there you go
[02:33] <jtechidna> If that's one app that I wish they'd hurry up and port, Konversation would be it
[03:30]  * vorian waves
[03:36]  * santiago-ve waves back
[04:22] <nixternal> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7khI7hwdlI
[04:22] <nixternal> absolutely brilliant!
[04:26] <Daskreech2> The Buntu Family theater?
[04:26] <Daskreech2> lil Ed?
[04:27] <Daskreech2> Haha ha ha
[04:28] <Daskreech2> The little slovian boy?
[04:28] <nixternal> that is classic stuff
[04:30] <Daskreech2> Yep the Riding Mousemascot to save garbage heaps
[04:30] <Daskreech2> You were descended from the great king Debian!
[04:39] <Daskreech2> Are we still maintaining a edubuntu-kde-desktop
[04:52] <Daskreech2> nixternal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9Qu3iP3RYA
[04:53] <Daskreech2> nixternal: It was an albanian boy
[05:23] <nixternal> Daskreech2: do me a favor, never post something that wastes 2 minutes of my life :)
[05:42] <Daskreech2> nixternal: It's the same voice as Kubuntu
[05:57] <flaccid> when changing resolution by user in kcontrol/system settings. where does it save these settings to? ie. not xorg.conf, the user file - eg. user has diff resolution?
[13:46] <hunger> Are those login themes part of kdm or is there some additional software needed to display them?
[13:47] <nosrednaekim> !kdmtheme
[13:49] <Riddell> hunger: I've not looked at what kde4 kdm can do
[13:49] <hunger> nosrednaekim: Thanks for the links!
[13:50] <hunger> Riddell: I'm currently looking at kde3.
[13:51] <hunger> nosrednaekim: Unfortunately that page seems outdated. It refers to debs that no longer exist:-(
[13:55] <hunger> Who does render the kdm theme? kdm itself or krootimage or what?
[14:25] <\sh> kwwii: dude...friday on your mind...when are you coming to berlin?
[14:28] <kwwii> \sh: I will be arriving thursday evening
[15:31] <asac> anyone running kde 3: do you have /usr/share/wallpapers/kubuntu-wallpaper.jpg ?
[15:32] <asac> or /usr/share/wallpapers/kubuntu-wallpaper.png
[15:32] <asac> ?
[15:32] <seele> .jpg
[15:37] <Riddell> asac: in hardy it's /usr/share/wallpapers/kubuntu-wallpaper.jpg
[15:37] <Riddell> previous releases had .png
[15:38] <asac> Riddell: looking at 203615
[15:38] <asac> the function bails out if no background is used ...
[15:38] <asac> err, no background is found
[15:39] <Riddell> hmm, didn't I fix that?
[15:39] <asac> not sure ... the bug is open, isn't it? ... in code it still returns
[15:40] <asac> Riddell: idea was something like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15329/
[15:40] <asac> if you say that this is not the problem, I will just go ahead :)
[15:40] <asac> to the next bug
[15:41] <asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15331/
[15:41] <asac> Riddell: like that ^^
[15:42] <Riddell> asac: that seems sensible
[15:42] <asac> good ... ill clean it up and test and attach debdiff and so on then
[15:51] <nixternal> hrmm, I am having an issue with the stinking ppa uploading kdelibs
[15:51] <nixternal> md5sum issue, which I don't get seeing as the version I am uploading is totally different than anything in the PPA
[15:55] <Riddell> nixternal: which package?
[15:56] <nixternal> kdelibs
[15:57] <Riddell> nixternal: what version?  to hardy?  ~kubuntu-members-kde4 ?
[15:57] <Riddell> kde4libs?
[15:58] <nixternal> kde4libs_4.0.80-0ubuntu1~hardy1~ppa1 to ~kubuntu-members-kde4
[16:00] <nixternal> Riddell: also with kde4libs in Intrepid, I noticed 2 files weren't listed in the .install files
[16:01] <nixternal> can't remember off hand which ones they were either...they weren't listed in not-installed either
[16:06] <nixternal> Riddell, ScottK, Hobbsee, crimsun: you all should have received an email from me over this weekend concerning core-dev...any responses would be appreciated...thanks :)
[16:09] <Riddell> nixternal: it's probably using the kde4libs .orig file from intrepid
[16:10] <nixternal> I didn't grab the .dsc and stuff for intrepid to build this package
[16:10] <Riddell> right, so maybe you should :)
[16:10] <Riddell> at least the .orig
[16:10] <nixternal> hrmm, good point
[16:10]  * nixternal does that now
[16:10] <Riddell> core-dev, excellent, will reply soon
[16:11] <nixternal> thank you sir
[16:11] <bobesponja> nixternal: are there 4.1 beta packages for hardy on ppa? :)
[16:12] <nixternal> working on that now, but no they aren't there yet
[16:12] <nixternal> just now uploading kde4libs
[16:12] <nixternal> kde4pimlibs and kde4base are next
[16:12] <nixternal> kde4libs took a few hours to finalize yesterday, that's for sure
[16:13] <bobesponja> nixternal: cool, thanks for the good work, I supposed it'll be announced on kubuntu.org when it's ready
[16:13] <Riddell> kdepimlibs and kdebase-runtime
[16:13] <nixternal> bobesponja: there and my blog I am sure
[16:13] <bobesponja> ok thanks
[16:13] <nixternal> Riddell: by kde4base I mean kde4base* :)
[16:14] <asac> Riddell: ok suggeted fix pushed to a bug branch and attached to that bug. further requested merging to oem-config trunk
[16:15] <Riddell> asac: anything I need to do?
[16:19] <nixternal> Riddell: groovy, kde4libs uploaded and building :) thanks!
[16:19] <nixternal> didn't realize that the PPAs were that cranky with md5sums located in the Ubuntu repos
[16:20] <OculusAquilae> hi
[16:21] <nixternal> howdy OculusAquilae
[16:21] <OculusAquilae> Are there KDE 4.1 beta1 packages coming?
[16:22] <nixternal> OculusAquilae: working on them now
[16:22] <asac> Riddell: not sure ;) maybe review the code i produced and ack that its sensible to have it in bug report
[16:23] <asac> if you are sure its fine, merge my branch into trunk.
[16:23] <asac> i didn't want to commit there as its not my realm :)
[16:23] <OculusAquilae> cool
[16:36] <OculusAquilae> What about LTSP. Is Kubuntu able to show up a window, when some media is inserted in the Thin Client in version 8.04.
[16:37] <OculusAquilae> We have tested version 7.10
[16:39] <nixternal> OculusAquilae: don't know about KDE 4 and LTSP, I haven't tested it at all really
[16:39] <nixternal> don't see why it wouldn't
[16:39] <yuriy> OculusAquilae: and did it work with 7.10?
[16:39] <OculusAquilae> nixternal: I think of KDE3
[16:39] <yuriy> there's this spec: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-kde
[16:39] <nixternal> yuriy: ya, LTSP + Kubuntu works
[16:39] <yuriy> might be good to start a wiki page for it with a checklist
[16:39] <OculusAquilae> and this https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ltspfs-virtual-hal-devices I know
[16:39] <nixternal> we just need to port some of the gtk tools to qt
[16:40] <nixternal> there was another issue with it, but I can't think of what it was
[16:40] <OculusAquilae> LTSP work wonderful, sound usw
[16:41] <OculusAquilae> local devices are mounted on /media/$USER, but they are not shown in dolphins device section
[16:41] <nixternal> do they show up in Konqueror though? I can't remember
[16:42] <OculusAquilae> I don't think so, the are only mounted, and in gnome, the gnomevfs does the showing :)
[16:43] <OculusAquilae> it's not working with hal
[16:43] <nixternal> ahh, ya that's right
[16:43] <OculusAquilae> I really havn't tested 8.04, so I don't know if it's better now
[16:44] <OculusAquilae> I am working on a test system for a 15 thin client system in a school
[16:57] <yuriy> mornfall: ping
[17:18] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: yay! go nixternal!
[17:25]  * jpds wonders what nosrednaekim's cheering about
[17:25] <mornfall> yuriy: Pong.
[17:26] <nosrednaekim> jpds: 4.1 packages :)
[17:30] <jpds> nosrednaekim: oh, right.
[17:31] <OculusAquilae> nosrednaekim: where?
[17:31] <nosrednaekim> nixternal is workin on them
[17:32] <OculusAquilae> ah
[17:34] <Riddell> so.. Kubuntu Tutorials Day anyone?
[17:34]  * Riddell eyes up nixternal 
[17:35]  * Riddell looks at seele 
[17:43] <yuriy> mornfall: 18:30 < yuriy> mornfall: hi. feature idea: hilight (in something other than the selection color) the next item in the sidebar th
[17:43] <yuriy> at the user will likely want. i.e. when the actionlist is not empty, hilight preview
[17:43] <yuriy> s/th\nat/that
[17:44] <mornfall> yuriy: Right, I have considered that.
[17:44] <mornfall> I am currently not quite sure about the sidebar visual changes you have made though.
[17:45] <mornfall> With my color scheme it looks rather worse than it used to (I use the default yellowish one).
[17:45] <yuriy> then also I was thinking of how to keep history when browsing dependencies in the detail view (once we have those...).  I don't remember if we've discussed this already, but how about a breadcrumb?
[17:46] <yuriy> mornfall: i didn't change colors. I only took away the frame and made rounded corners
[17:46] <mornfall> Yes, what I mean is that with my color scheme it looks odd at best now.
[17:47] <yuriy> hmm
[17:47] <yuriy> well, you don't have to use that i guess. i thought it looked a little better
[17:47] <mornfall> It might if the color of selection would match whatever is to the right of sidebar, I guess.
[17:48] <mornfall> Which is not the case though.
[17:48] <mornfall> (That's how it's done in kickoff IIRC.)
[17:49] <yuriy> yes, it is. I wasn't sure about doing that, i actually don't like how there's not enough contrast that way
[17:49] <yuriy> right now both the sidebar and the window use pretty much the same color (at least with the default oxygen color scheme) so that wouldn't work at all
[17:51]  * txwikinger amazed how troubleless the kubuntu hardy upgrade on his laptop worked
[17:54] <yuriy> mornfall: default yellowish == honeycomb?
[17:54] <yuriy> mornfall: i see how it looks a little odd, without the frame i guess
[17:59] <nosrednaekim> txwikinger: yeah.... hardy was a smooooth upgrade
[17:59] <mornfall> brb (trying suspend to encrypted swap...)
[18:00] <txwikinger> nosrednaekim: Yeah.. very good work everybody !!!
[18:01] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: hehehe.... got a build system notification ^_^
[18:03] <mornfall> yuriy: Yes, probably honeycomb.
[18:03] <mornfall> (Resume didn't quite work... decrypted swap, hasn't found the resume image... uswsusp gotta be borked.)
[18:11] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: silly kspell_aspell stuff in .install packages
[18:11] <nixternal> uploading fix now
[18:13] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: are they installing to /opt?
[18:13] <yuriy> mornfall: so what about a breadcrumb for details view history?
[18:14] <yuriy> history would only be kept when looking at details for other packages through the package relationships view and cleared when selecting another package in the search view
[18:14] <mornfall> yuriy: -ENOTIME : - )
[18:17] <mornfall> brb (uswsusp debugging....)
[18:31] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: installing to the same place they always have for Hardy
[18:32] <nosrednaekim> so they will over write 4.0.4?
[18:51] <nosrednaekim> !neon
[19:08] <nixternal> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu
[19:08] <nixternal> how does that look?
[19:08] <Riddell> whoa
[19:09] <nixternal> while packages are building, I thought about redoing our wiki pages
[19:09] <nosrednaekim> great.... course I don't know anything about wiki pages and how they SHOULD look :P
[19:09] <nixternal> I gently lifted the idea from the Xubuntu page :)
[19:09] <nixternal> I think the main body of the front page though I will change
[19:09] <awen_> nixternal: cool ... looks very organized
[19:13] <mhb> evening guys
[19:14] <mhb> how much would you hate me if I said perhaps this late packaging sometimes has a negative effect on Kubuntu? :o)
[19:14] <mhb> what I admire is that SUSErs always have that Live CD ready
[19:15] <mhb> then again, I do want to replace you all with programs, so disregard me.
[19:15] <Tm_T> mmmmgh, I need to learn launchpad and bzr, any good readings?
[19:15] <mhb> Tm_T: all I needed w.r.t. bzr was the beginners guide on bazaar-vcs.org
[19:16] <Tm_T> hmmm
[19:16] <Tm_T> lemmesee
[19:18] <awen_> ScottK: be sure to ping me if you have any comments about http://awen.dk/packages/kde-guidance_0.8.0svn20080103-0ubuntu18.debdiff that i need to fix!
[19:19] <Riddell> mhb: it is a notable issue
[19:19] <Riddell> it's very frustrating being blocked on main inclusion stuff
[19:19] <awen_> Tm_T: if you have used svn (or the like) and aren't afraid of playing around you'll lear bzr prette quick :)
[19:21] <Tm_T> awen_: heh, svn is familiar, thanks :)
[19:30] <mhb> Riddell: ah, right. That again.
[19:30] <Riddell> mhb: (and also we've been at a conference last week, plus suse have someone working full time on packaging)
[19:30] <mhb> we also do have one!
[19:31] <Riddell> yeah but nixternal has classes sometimes :)
[19:33] <yuriy> nixternal: nice job on the wiki. though the top menu could be improved (I like the look of our LoCo one) and the front page needs some text
[19:33] <yuriy> and the join us line should have kubuntu logos instead of ubuntu
[19:34] <nixternal> Riddell: no more classes for me, at least for a little while :)
[19:34] <mhb> Riddell: no more absinth for you until we all have our packages!
[19:34] <nixternal> ahh, just got what you said there Riddell :)
[19:38] <mhb> nosrednaekim: so you are a punk guy? :o)
[19:53] <nosrednaekim> mhb: haha... nope
[19:53] <nosrednaekim> mhb: I just did that to freak people out :P
[19:54] <mhb> I assumed so.
[19:57] <bdgraue> nixternal: the kubuntu-de.org team want to make an announcment right in time, together with kubuntu.org for the kde 4.1 beta release. i have a few questions about it. who is the right person to speak with?
[19:58] <Riddell> bdgraue: nixternal
[19:58] <Riddell> but no time yet
[19:59] <bdgraue> ok, i'll wait
[20:00] <Riddell> bdgraue: it'll be a day or two at least
[20:02] <bdgraue> Riddell: one of my questions is, which theme we will will use, so i can make some screenshots for the announcement, would be nice to tell someone from kubuntu-de.org at least a few hours before the announcement at kubuntu.org
[20:02] <nixternal> ozone
[20:02] <bdgraue> nixternal: thx
[20:03] <smarter> I still don't understand why they forked oxygen
[20:03] <nixternal> smarter: oxygen + color schemes was the main reason, but ya I don't understand forking and not fixing
[20:05] <Riddell> bdgraue: just the defaults for now
[20:05] <Riddell> which seems to be ozone with blue window borders
[20:05] <Riddell> I believe it's back to matching borders in trunk now, which is better
[20:05] <nosrednaekim> smarter: becuase the oxygen people disn't want to change it...
[20:06] <bdgraue> so i'll make some screenshots from trunk default with the 3 lines in the decoration, this is the right one?
[20:06] <Riddell> hello
[20:07] <Riddell> i love cats
[20:08] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: I'd ask for them to ban you as a troll if you didn't have that all-powerful nick :P
[20:44] <seele> Riddell: who do we send expenses to?  Claire or Jorge?
[20:44] <seele> or you?
[20:44] <seele> Riddell: and cats suck
[20:56] <jpds> seele: (by what I was told: Claire)
[20:56] <seele> jpds: thanks
[21:23] <Riddell> seele: claire
[21:24] <seele> Riddell: rgr
[21:24] <Tm_T> kids kids
[21:25]  * seele coughs
[21:25] <seele> i picked up the uds bug :P
[21:27] <Riddell> rdieter_away: don't forget! :)
[23:04] <nosrednaekim> mhb: heck yeah you have a volunteer :P
[23:23] <nixternal> Riddell: should akonadi-kde be installed to /usr/lib/kde4/share/apps/ or /usr/lib/kde4/share/kde4/apps/ ?
[23:24] <nixternal> akonadi-kde's CMakeLists.txt file has it going to ${CMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX}/share/apps/akonadi-kde ...and if it needs to go into ....kde4/share/kde4/apps, then I need to patch that