[07:00]  * ArneGoetje waves
[07:00] <asac> hi all
[07:00] <doko_> good morning
[07:01] <evand> hi
[07:01] <TheMuso> Greetings.
[07:01] <cjwatson> good morning all
[07:01] <bryce> heya all
[07:02] <cjwatson> I hope everyone had a decent trip back from Prague
[07:02] <TheMuso> Yes, as well as one can have.
[07:03] <ArneGoetje> I can't complain either
[07:03] <cjwatson> Chris and Steve are on holiday
[07:03]  * ogra coughs and sniffs
[07:05] <bryce> Prague Plague, ogra?
[07:05] <ogra> bryce, mdz plague i'd say
[07:05] <bryce> ogra: kees too
[07:05] <ogra> seems seb and daniel have it too
[07:05] <cjwatson> so, first thing is UDS proceedings
[07:05] <dholbach> and Jorge and Jono :)
[07:05] <ogra> heh
[07:06] <cjwatson> I sent out a mail about the reports I dumped into the wiki, and getting those transformed into specs
[07:06] <cjwatson> does anyone have questions about the process there?
[07:06] <bryce> cjwatson: I've dumped my notes in as well
[07:06] <TheMuso> No, I only need to try and find the dmraid document that was in gobby.
[07:06] <TheMuso> And I have the document for the accessibility review of ubuntu specific desktop tools.
[07:06] <cjwatson> IntrepidReleaseSchedule gives 5 June as the deadline for specs to be finalised
[07:06] <bryce> gobby appears to have been cleared out or something; I couldn't find my xorg ones there
[07:06] <TheMuso> SO will get to that in the next few days.
[07:07]  * cjwatson guesses the gobby server crashed and ate its state again
[07:08] <bryce> gobby gobble
[07:08] <cjwatson> apparently the state is very very tasty
[07:08] <liw> is it time to spend some effort on gobby reliability? at least having the client autosave, perhaps?
[07:08] <cjwatson> I was just thinking that, though autosave has its own problems
[07:09] <TheMuso> afaik Kees took the dmraid notes so he should probably have a copy somewhere.
[07:09] <liw> preferably server side reliablity, of course
[07:09] <cjwatson> with the lack of undo, autosave guarantees that nobody has a spare copy if somebody highlights the whole document and starts typing
[07:09] <cjwatson> autosave; bzr commit
[07:09] <bryce> bzr backing would rock
[07:10] <cjwatson> I wonder if tweaking the editor to prevent overtyping a selection would be a good idea
[07:10] <liw> undo would be more awesome
[07:10] <liw> gobby needs a lot of tender loving care, it seems
[07:11] <cjwatson> is that the sound of a volunteer? ;-)
[07:11] <liw> kyllä
[07:11] <liw> always answer in Finnish to questions about being a volunteer... :)
[07:12] <liw> (translation for those who are not slangasek: yes, I am willing to volunteer)
[07:12] <cjwatson> I found http://www.kylla.com/ and my brain melted
[07:12] <asac_> sorry reconnected
[07:13] <asac_> can someone paste the session so far?
[07:13] <liw> asac, sure, just a moment
[07:13] <asac_> thx
[07:13] <liw> asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/15259/
[07:14] <cjwatson> I've started trying to put together lists of what people are doing at https://wiki.canonical.com/DistroTeam/Platform/8.10
[07:14] <cjwatson> this is horribly incomplete as yet, and even blank for some people
[07:14] <liw> (and only accessible to Canonical people)
[07:15] <cjwatson> indeed, it should end up being just an internal-organisation document full of links to the outside world
[07:15] <cjwatson> I just find it more convenient to plan stuff there than in Launchpad
[07:16] <liw> cjwatson, edits to that page should be discussed with you beforehand, I assume
[07:17] <cjwatson> if they're trivial, go ahead, otherwise please ask
[07:17] <cjwatson> the archive reorg is the biggest unowned item there
[07:18] <cjwatson> however, for a change, I'm not looking for volunteers for that right now - to start with it isn't really an implementation project on our side
[07:18] <cjwatson> we much more need to get it specced out and agreed, so that the right changes can be made in Launchpad
[07:19] <cjwatson> and probably prototyped
[07:20] <ArneGoetje> these are only tasks that are directly aimed at 8.10, I assume?
[07:20] <cjwatson> I will work on that, but it isn't urgent that it lands in this cycle, as long as we get started; in fact it's unlikely to land in this cycle because all the Launchpad people-time has already been assigned
[07:20] <cjwatson> ArneGoetje: loosely, yes
[07:20] <cjwatson> ArneGoetje: why?
[07:20] <ArneGoetje> so, I don't need to add more long-term stuff to it?
[07:21] <cjwatson> no; I don't have a good place for that, maybe just on your personal wiki page if you want somewhere to aggregate it?
[07:21] <ArneGoetje> ok
[07:21] <cjwatson> or you could create a page linked off DistroTeam/Platform for longer-term ideas
[07:22] <cjwatson> (actually, any page named DistroTeam/Platform/blah will get magically autolinked)
[07:22] <ArneGoetje> well, the point is that I also need to allocate time for those, besides the tasks for 8.10... not that the long-term ones get pushed back... ;)
[07:23] <cjwatson> ah, right
[07:23] <cjwatson> send me mail with the details and I'll think about it and get it folded in
[07:25] <ArneGoetje> ok. I was just thinking if it would be more useful to have a general overview page what people are working on, with tasks marked as 8.10, long-term or general duties, for example...
[07:25] <asac> cjwatson: the tasks "upstream bugs/crashers" + "automated testing" belong more to the QA team i guess. should i add them to my list on that platform page anyway?
[07:25] <cjwatson> asac: I explicitly hadn't included them for you there because I wanted to talk with you first about that :-)
[07:26] <cjwatson> I'll check up with Henrik about that
[07:26] <asac> ok
[07:26] <cjwatson> likewise, compcache is a kernel team item
[07:26] <ogra> not completely
[07:26] <cjwatson> well, mostly
[07:26] <ogra> it needs udev implementation i volunteered to do
[07:27] <asac> cjwatson: i also have "large scale extensino maintenance using bzr", which fits nicely into "distributed development" i guess.
[07:27] <ogra> kernel team adds the module to l-u-m, but it needs userspace setup
[07:28] <cjwatson> asac: new heavy-duty use of bzr in the distro should definitely liaise with james_w to make sure it won't have to be redone in six months' time
[07:28] <cjwatson> ogra: point me to a spec once there is one
[07:28] <TheMuso> cjwatson: What do you mean by heavy duty?
[07:28] <ogra> cjwatson, will do
[07:29] <cjwatson> TheMuso: rolling out new systems for large groups of packages, as opposed to just sticking a stray package here and there in bzr
[07:29] <cjwatson> (which is obviously to be encouraged)
[07:29] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Right.
[07:29] <asac> cjwatson: needs coordination with james_w, right.
[07:30] <cjwatson> it's unlikely to cause a problem, but James may want to know what you're doing in order to take account of it
[07:30] <cjwatson> though I see from James' activity report that you've already been talking
[07:31] <asac> cjwatson: we are already doing that and had discussions on that topic at UDS
[07:31] <asac> yep
[07:33] <cjwatson> so, meeting times
[07:33] <cjwatson> we last rotated these in February
[07:34] <ArneGoetje> any reason to change? :)
[07:34] <cjwatson> from 1500 UTC to 0600 UTC
[07:34] <asac> ArneGoetje: yes, i finally got used to this time - and that scares me.
[07:34] <cjwatson> ArneGoetje: I did promise at the time to rotate every few months, to spread out the pain
[07:34] <ArneGoetje> asac: LOL
[07:35] <cjwatson> Wednesday still seems fairly convenient
[07:35] <asac> so simply rotate another -8 hours? e.g. 22h UTC ?
[07:36] <liw> is there a time that will allow all of us to be awake at our normal times, rather than two-three hours after normal bedtime?
[07:36] <cjwatson> 2200 UTC == 0600 Arne's time, if I'm doing my sums correctly
[07:36] <bryce> liw, no there isn't
[07:36] <cjwatson> liw: I don't think so :-(
[07:37] <liw> alas
[07:37] <cjwatson> liw: we cover western and eastern US, Europe, Taiwan, Australia
[07:37] <liw> in that case, spread the pain
[07:37] <liw> I'd be happy to move to Australia or Canada, if that helps ;-)
[07:37] <cjwatson> it's just about pessimal for arranging meetings
[07:38] <TheMuso> Since I've had it good for the last few months, I'm willing to do whatever is decided upon.
[07:38] <ArneGoetje> +1
[07:38] <cjwatson> Evan and Chris have probably had it worst
[07:38] <bryce> I like asac's proposal - easy to remember and apply
[07:39] <ogra> ++
[07:39] <cjwatson> I think asac's is probably fine though possibly with an hour or so's tweak either way; we settled on 0600 because it was a bit less unpleasant for eastern US
[07:40] <cjwatson> we could just reshuffle the teams so that the desktop team manager gets to deal with more than just Europe and western US for a change ;-)
[07:40] <cjwatson> "just"
[07:41] <liw> do I understand correctly: asac's suggestion would be to have the meeting at Tuesday 22:00 UTC?
[07:41] <cjwatson> ArneGoetje: on what you said above: I think you're probably right, but I'll have to think on how to do it so as to avoid too much duplication and hence stuff getting out of date
[07:42] <asac> liw: my idea was Wed 2200 UTC
[07:42] <ArneGoetje> cjwatson: got it
[07:42] <liw> asac, ack
[07:42] <liw> I'm ok with that
[07:43] <cjwatson> I'll stare at a timezone map for a bit and send mail, then
[07:43] <cjwatson> any other business?
[07:43] <TheMuso> Yes, minutes.
[07:43] <doko> Wed 22:00 soudns fine
[07:43] <cjwatson> oh yes, that rather ought to rotate too
[07:43] <TheMuso> I can do this meeting's minutes, but I would like to share the work around for those.
[07:43] <cjwatson> volunteers?
[07:43] <liw> whoever joins the meeting last gets to do the minutes? :)
[07:44] <bryce> earlier I volunteered to help out.  I might be out on jury duty part of June though (or maybe not)
[07:44] <liw> I'd be happy with a setup where the secretary gets chosen randomly at the beginning of each meeting
[07:45] <TheMuso> Well I'd rather not do them if the meeting ends up at a time which requires me to get up/make myself available for it.
[07:45] <TheMuso> I don't mind doing such a meeting time, but I'd probably rather not have to worry about minutes for that meeting.
[07:46] <cjwatson> one does need to be awake; seems best to have it selected from those people for whom it's normal working hours
[07:46] <bryce> TheMuso: yeah that sounds fair
[07:46] <liw> yeah, that sounds good
[07:46] <cjwatson> which means bryce is probably a good candidate for this rotation anyway, modulo jury duty
[07:46] <bryce> yup
[07:46] <cjwatson> done
[07:47] <cjwatson> any other other business?
[07:48] <liw> my keyboard battery is about to die...
[07:48] <liw> so nothing from me
[07:48] <asac> :)
[07:48] <ArneGoetje> nothing from me either
[07:49]  * ogra will go back to bed and stay there for most of the day to cure that flu ting
[07:49] <TheMuso> Only that it was great to see everybody face to face once again. :)
[07:49] <asac> ack++
[07:49] <cjwatson> liw: punched cards are the way forward
[07:49] <ogra> yeah
[07:49] <liw> greatness.lock(); greatness.set_value(greatness.get_value() + 1); greatness.unlock()
[07:50] <cjwatson> indeed so
[07:50] <cjwatson> adjourned, then
[07:50] <evand> thanks
[07:50] <bryce> thanks
[07:50] <asac> thanks
[07:50] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[07:50] <TheMuso> Thanks.
[07:50] <liw> kiitos
[07:50] <ogra> thanks
[17:59] <lukehasnoname> Anyone?
[18:13] <RoAkSoAx> @schedule lima
[18:14] <lukehasnoname> @schedule houston
[18:14] <lukehasnoname> haha
[18:15] <lukehasnoname> @schedule central
[18:15] <lukehasnoname> nice.
[18:24] <Syntux> @schedule
[18:26] <zul> @schedule montreal
[18:54] <leoquant> @schedule amsterdam
[18:58] <fdd> @schedule
[18:58] <fdd> @schedule bucharest
[19:53]  * lukehasnoname says hi
[19:58] <pedro_> ahoj!
[19:58]  * ogasawara_ waves
[19:59]  * cgregan waves back
[20:00] <heno> hey!
[20:00] <davmor2> Good evening everybody :)
[20:00]  * stgraber waves
[20:01] <bdmurray> hi
[20:02]  * heno tries the bot
[20:02] <heno> #startmeeting
[20:02] <mgunes> hi all
[20:02] <davmor2> no bot :(
[20:02] <sbeattie> hey
[20:03] <heno> hope everyone who was at UDS made it home ok
[20:03] <Seeker`> broken bot - sorry, I've got exams at the moment, i'll fix it when they are over
[20:03] <mgunes> I'm fine, except the UbuFlu :)
[20:03] <heno> Seeker`: thanks, no worries
[20:03] <pedro_> I'm just with a bit of Ubuflu ;-)
[20:03] <bdmurray> +1
[20:04] <cgregan> I must be lucky...no Flubuntu here
[20:04] <stgraber> Ubuflu is over for me :) but I was only in Prague for a few days
[20:04]  * heno is UbuFluFree :)
[20:04] <cgregan> I even shared a plane with MattZ
[20:04] <davmor2> I'm not :D
[20:04]  * pedro_ spreading lysol
[20:04] <lukehasnoname> What meeting is starting?
[20:04] <stgraber> lukehasnoname: QA team
[20:04] <lukehasnoname> ooo!
[20:04] <sbeattie> I'm finally recovering from the Prague Plague...
[20:04] <heno> cgregan: heh, you finally met Matt on the plane home? :)
[20:05] <lukehasnoname> This isn't on the calender
[20:05] <cgregan> heno: yes...kept my distance though ;-0
[20:05] <lukehasnoname> or is it
[20:05] <mgunes> lukehasnoname, it's secret, don't tell anyone :p
[20:05] <lukehasnoname> @schedule
[20:06] <heno> jcastro: you know your way around the Fridge right? Could you look at getting the QA team meeting added on a rolling basis?
[20:06] <lukehasnoname> So the first step to being an "Ubuntero" / contributor is universe/multiverse package management?
[20:07] <heno> I seem to remember the calendar needed hand-cranking each month or something
[20:07] <jcastro> heno: I'll look into it
[20:07] <heno> jcastro: thanks!
[20:07] <jcastro> I /think/ they need to be added manually
[20:07] <heno> ok, let's start
[20:07] <heno> topic: Intrepid QA schedule
[20:07] <heno> please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/IntrepidSchedule and raise any objections
[20:08] <heno> thanks bdmurray for updating it for Intrepid
[20:08] <pedro_> looks fine to me
[20:08] <bdmurray> There is still some filing in to do of the focus
[20:09] <pedro_> the developer sprint will be between the 14 and 18 of July, right?
[20:09] <lukehasnoname> 1)What is SRU verification?
[20:09] <lukehasnoname> briefly. I know I'm new, and I don't want to take too much time
[20:09] <davmor2> Looks good
[20:09] <heno> we should have a point for test case review
[20:10] <stgraber> lukehasnoname: Stable Release Update verification
[20:10] <bdmurray> lukehasnoname: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[20:10] <heno> 1-2 weeks before Beta IMObefore Beta
[20:10] <cgregan> heno: I agree.
[20:10] <bdmurray> week 20?
[20:10] <bdmurray> so they get reviewed with Alpha 6?
[20:11] <heno> sure, ~September 18th seems good
[20:11] <bdmurray> or 21 after UI freeze?
[20:11] <heno> after UI freeze, before beta some time
[20:12] <heno> we should perhaps allow a week for that process
[20:12] <bdmurray> I updated week 21 w/ test case review
[20:12] <heno> Alpha 6 is a good time to confirm that its A-ok
[20:12] <heno> thanks
[20:13] <heno> that's all I can see for now
[20:13] <heno> please raise further feedback on the qa list or at next weeks meeting
[20:13] <heno> topic: Intrepid QA specifications
[20:14] <heno> we should update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs for Intrepid
[20:15] <heno> deadline is June 5th but allow some time for review
[20:15] <heno> so we should try to get specs in place by Tuesday in the Review state
[20:16] <mgunes> do we have a list of prospective spec titles/stubs?
[20:16] <heno> topics from here http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/uds-intrepid/ don't all map well to specs
[20:16] <mgunes> indeed
[20:16] <heno> mgunes: right, so some rejigging will be required
[20:17] <heno> I'll start updating the spec wiki page with my take on that, but please also add specs you are leading / involved in
[20:17] <heno> some can be recycles from last cycle
[20:18] <stgraber> I'll be quite busy with exams next week so I'd really appreciate anyone helping me spec the QA-Website, QA-Portal, Package website and Brainstorm specs. I'm not sure of the status of the QA-Tracker spec at the moment
[20:18] <heno> like the desktop testing one
[20:18] <stgraber> QA-Website, QA-Portal and QA-Tracker need a spec, not sure about the two others (Brainstorm and app website)
[20:19] <heno> stgraber: I can help with the QA specs
[20:19] <mgunes> stgraber, I can probably help if you share all your local UDS Gobby sessions that I couldn't save :)
[20:19] <heno> jcastro: I assume you'll keep in touch with stgraber and nand Re the brainstorm stuff
[20:19] <jcastro> heno: yep I was just writing the mail in fact
[20:20] <heno> ah, yes, please help fill the gaps of lost gobby docs generally!
[20:20] <heno> jcastro: cool!
[20:20] <heno> so at next weeks meeting we'll focus on getting the specs wrapped up
[20:21] <mgunes> I'm hoping to implement a "tester weather report" that I talked briefly about at UDS; will add to the specs page once I have a rough spec + some initial feedback
[20:21] <stgraber> mgunes: the gobby session for Brainstorm and AppWebsite are on the wiki, not sure about the QA-Portal one (I may still have it somewhere here)
[20:21] <heno> (I'm also emailing and phoning various people about this this week)
[20:21] <lukehasnoname> how many of you actually went to UDS?
[20:21] <bdmurray> lukehasnoname: probably all the ones talking
[20:21] <lukehasnoname> o_o
[20:22] <lukehasnoname> I'm alone in my absence
[20:22] <heno> we had a good QA showing indeed
[20:22] <mgunes> stgraber, I'd appreciate qa-portal one if you can find it
[20:23] <davmor2> lukehasnoname: your not I wasn't there either :(
[20:23] <heno> any more questions about spec writing?
[20:23] <stgraber> mgunes: I can't find it on gobby, the wiki or my hdd but I think I emailed it to cr3 so I should find it in my sent mails :)
[20:23] <sbeattie> mgunes, stgraber: I might have it
[20:24] <heno> topic: Promoting and tracking the use of proposed
[20:24] <mgunes> stgraber, sbeattie, if you do, please forward to me or ping me (and let's use a standard namespace on gobby.ubuntu.com next time)
[20:24] <stgraber> sbeattie: cool, mine is pre-UDS so I only have the bits discussed at FOSSCamp :(
[20:24] <pedro_> yay for proposed packages
[20:24] <sbeattie> that was the extending-qa.ubuntu.com session, right?
[20:24] <heno> please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed
[20:24] <stgraber> mgunes: I put the one I have in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/FossCamp/
[20:24] <stgraber> sbeattie: yes
[20:24] <pedro_> i should blog about that...
[20:25] <mgunes> stgraber, thanks
[20:25] <sbeattie> stgraber: yeah, I have it, I'll email.
[20:25] <heno> note that my test of Apport failed - does anyone know more about that?
[20:25] <bdmurray> heno: its /etc/default/apport now
[20:25] <lukehasnoname> hardy proposed is for the point release?
[20:25] <stgraber> heno: what failed ? did you see the point I added to your instructions ?
[20:25] <heno> If a restart is required I should add that to the page
[20:26] <stgraber> modifying /etc/default/apport and running /etc/init.d/apport restart should start it
[20:26] <pedro_> an apport restart should do the trick
[20:26] <pedro_> right
[20:26] <heno> stgraber, bdmurray: I did that
[20:27] <heno> ah! we need to add the /etc/init.d/apport step
[20:27] <davmor2> heno: I just ran the commands and nothing happens
[20:27] <bdmurray> heno: how did you get the smaller picture, it's not obvious to me at the moment
[20:28] <heno> ok, it works now. I'll update the instructions
[20:28] <heno> bdmurray: the thumbnai? resize in gimp :)
[20:28] <heno> thumbnail even
[20:28] <bdmurray> ah, I thought it was some wiki magic
[20:29] <stgraber> bdmurray: would be too easy :)
[20:29] <davmor2> bdmurray: no just a lot of time in the gimp and a line of text a mile long ;)
[20:30] <davmor2> guys I still can't get apport to run :(
[20:30] <lukehasnoname> its legs are tired
[20:30] <heno> what do people think of tracking -proposed usage in this way? See: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/proposed-tracking/+bugs
[20:31] <heno> If we agree that it's sane I'll blog about it later
[20:31] <heno> mgunes: could you echo that in a forum thread as well?
[20:32] <stgraber> looks good to me
[20:32] <mgunes> heno, will do if we decide to go on with it
[20:32] <heno> mgunes: I actually stole your idea of using a forum sticky with me too comments
[20:32] <bdmurray> Did we have some discussion about tagging proposed package crashes somehow?  If so that should be in those two bug reports.
[20:32] <davmor2> Looks good but I don't seem to be able to enable apport still :(
[20:33] <heno> but I though LP would be good because testers really should have an LP account and have uploaded a HW profile
[20:33] <mgunes> heno, cool; improvised solutions can work better than elaborate ones :)
[20:34] <heno> bdmurray: perhaps we should also link to bug filing guidelines
[20:34] <mgunes> heno, but what would be the "more automated solution" mentioned at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed ?
[20:34] <heno> mgunes: we discussed at UDS to use popcon to collect the info
[20:34] <heno> (opt-in obviously)
[20:35] <heno> but we'll look closer at that post hardy.1
[20:35] <mgunes> ah, ok, I remember
[20:35] <heno> sbeattie has looked at the code a bit
[20:36] <heno> ok, we seem agreed. I'll go ahead with that
[20:36] <heno> please help seed the bugs with your registrations!
[20:37] <heno> bdmurray: will you add the tag and bug filing doc links to the bug descriptions?
[20:37] <heno> bdmurray: use whatever tag convention you feel is appropriate
[20:37] <bdmurray> heno: sure
[20:37] <heno> thanks
[20:38] <heno> topic: Can people check out the files under [WWW] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Includes please? -- davmor2
[20:38] <mgunes> heno, there's yet no way to query one's own uploaded hardware info (or whether it's uploaded at all) in LP right?
[20:38] <heno> mgunes: you have to check the non-published URL
[20:38] <lukehasnoname> Guys, quick question: Hypothetically, if someone designed a website for Ubuntu that had a system integrating bug tracking, error reporting, wiki, brainstorm, member information, etc., do you think Ubuntu would ipliment it?
[20:38] <heno> on the form https://launchpad.net/~<launchpad-id>/+hwdb-submissions
[20:39] <davmor2> mgunes: probably not but if your a tester then you can always add your HW spec to your tracker account and that can
[20:39] <lukehasnoname> *implement, I'm smarter than I spell
[20:39] <pedro_> isn't the last test on the Tomboy page a bit generic?
[20:39] <heno> lukehasnoname: why would you want to reimplement that?
[20:40] <mgunes> heno, found it right after asking, thanks :)
[20:40] <pedro_> i mean, that's the goal for almost all the UI applications
[20:41] <davmor2> cool :)
[20:41] <lukehasnoname> I admit I am no expert at navigating the different sites. Perhaps it is my ignorance. However, it seems that the layout and the ways in which things are done are thrown together
[20:41] <heno> writing test cases can be hard because you run out of new things to test after a while -- I'm sure additions are welcome :)
[20:42] <lukehasnoname> If there were a more structured, planned setup, things might be more navigable / easier to maintain
[20:42] <heno> I know, I've written some and you find yourself stumped for coming up with interesting ways to test even the simplest applications
[20:43] <sbeattie> davmor2: cgregan has some stuff on the wiki about testing mobile apps, might be able to steal specific tests from that.
[20:43] <lukehasnoname> Now that Ubuntu is becoming larger in the community, it is not so hard to make a plan on a professional, deliberate web environment.
[20:43] <heno> sbeattie: he and davmor2 have actually worked together on those :)
[20:43] <davmor2> sbeattie: I been working on them with him :)
[20:44] <lukehasnoname> If I'm hijacking the meeting, I'll stop, I'll just draw up specs myself and see where things go. thanks for bouncing my ideas.
[20:44] <heno> I think the new test case structure and layout generally rocks!
[20:44] <heno> though a bit more detail would help in many cases
[20:45] <heno> pedro_: could you do a review of the desktop cases and add some more steps?
[20:45] <pedro_> heno: sure, will do it
[20:45] <heno> thanks
[20:45] <pedro_> np :-)
[20:46] <heno> ok, any other topics?
[20:46] <lukehasnoname> Now how do I contribute to testing?
[20:46] <davmor2> I feel a 3
[20:47] <lukehasnoname> er, register for it?
[20:47] <heno> lukehasnoname: what kind of testing?
[20:47] <heno> Hardy updates, ISO testing, or mobile perhaps? :)
[20:48] <heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing is a good place to start reading
[20:48] <lukehasnoname> in the testing cases for install and desktop
[20:48] <cgregan> For mobile: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UMEdesktop
[20:49] <heno> lukehasnoname: that's install, so you'll need to register at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
[20:49] <lukehasnoname> Let me clarify: Are those for people to test their own software for their own sake, or for testers to verify and report back to Ubuntu QA?
[20:49] <heno> we actually have proper test tracking for that :)
[20:50] <heno> to report back that the updated/installed packages work as expected
[20:50] <heno> looks like we are done with meeting
[20:50] <heno> thanks everyone!
[20:50] <stgraber> thanks
[20:50] <pedro_> thanks you
[20:50] <lukehasnoname> Every Wednesday at this time?
[20:51] <sbeattie> thanks
[20:51] <mgunes> thanks, see you all
[20:51] <davmor2> yay got apport working :)
[20:51] <jcastro> take care guys!
[20:51] <stgraber> davmor2: cool
[20:52] <davmor2> lukehasnoname: you might want to think about joining the #ubuntu-testing channel
[20:53] <lukehasnoname> hm, cool
[20:53] <Daviey> @schedule
[20:53] <lukehasnoname> Now that I have a job I have time to kill on the net studying Ubuntu
[20:54] <Daviey> gah, UTC != UTC+1 :(
[20:54] <RoAkSoAx> pedro_, have a question, at what time is the Americas Membership Board meeting?? because, in the wiki says 00.00 UTC and here 01.00 UTC...
[20:54] <lukehasnoname> BTW, My birthday is October 30th, so I expect a damned fine Ibex.
[20:54] <pedro_> it's at UTC 00:00
[20:54] <lukehasnoname> It's at 8pm CDT
[20:54] <pedro_> don't trust the topic this time ;-)
[20:55] <lukehasnoname> I think?
[20:55] <pedro_> the right information is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
[20:56] <RoAkSoAx> pedro_, haha ok thanks ;)
[20:57] <pedro_> RoAkSoAx: you're welcome :-)
[20:58] <bdmurray> pedro_: how many hours is that? ;)
[21:02] <pedro_> bdmurray: the meeting? should be like ~1 hour (hope so)
[21:02] <bdmurray> I really meant hours away
[21:03] <bdmurray> apparently math and english are hard
[21:04] <pedro_> 4 from now on
[21:04] <davmor2> bdmurray: not when ya talk proper English like what we does :)
[21:20] <lukehasnoname> who's bored
[21:21] <RoAkSoAx> @schedule lima
[21:21] <lukehasnoname> me too
[21:22] <RoAkSoAx> lol
[21:24] <Syntux> @schedule
[21:24] <lukehasnoname> Damage Inc. - Metallica
[21:34]  * lukehasnoname joined #ubuntu-meeting
[21:41] <lukehasnoname> PriceChild joined us
[21:52] <zul> evening
[21:52] <lukehasnoname> hi
[21:59] <sommer> hey all
[21:59]  * nealmcb got home yesterday and is hoping to be over most of the jet lag by tomorrow....
[21:59] <nealmcb> sommer: howdy :)
[21:59] <Koon> sommer: \o/
[21:59]  * owh waves with bleary eyes almost open.
[21:59] <kirkland> howdy
[21:59] <zul> bonjour
[22:00] <lukehasnoname> Hi
[22:00] <sommer> heh, o//
[22:00] <mathiaz> hello world of the Ubuntu Server
[22:00] <mathiaz> hope everyone got back from UDS safely
[22:00] <soren> o/
[22:00] <nealmcb> no mootbot: ﻿Seeker`: broken bot - sorry, I've got exams at the moment, i'll fix it when they are over
[22:01] <mathiaz> nealmcb: really ?
[22:01] <mathiaz> nealmcb: MootBot is here though
[22:01] <nealmcb> quote from an hour ago.... - but try it anyway
[22:01] <mathiaz> anyway - let's get started
[22:01] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[22:01] <mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[22:01] <dendrobates-> o/
[22:02] <mathiaz> after a three week break, we've got a couple of things to discuss.
[22:02] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review last meeting action point
[22:02] <mathiaz> last meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080507
[22:02]  * nealmcb . o O (UDS was a break?)
[22:02] <mathiaz> I see one point - kirkland and virtualization
[22:02] <owh> ROTFL
[22:03] <kirkland> mathiaz: i think we decided on their names
[22:03] <kirkland> mathiaz: i updated the packages in my PPA
[22:03] <kirkland> mathiaz: now, I'd like to see about getting them uploaded into Intrepid
[22:03]  * nealmcb cheers for kirkland
[22:03]  * kirkland bows
[22:03] <ivoks> (hi all)
[22:04] <mathiaz> kirkland: did you ask for feedback on ubuntu-server@ ?
[22:04] <kirkland> mathiaz: I did
[22:04] <kirkland> mathiaz: Thu, May 8, 2008 at 11:19 AM
[22:05] <kirkland> mathiaz: one person said thanks, he'd be using them
[22:05] <mathiaz> kirkland: great - next step is to get your new package uploaded
[22:05] <kirkland> mathiaz: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2008-May/001493.html
[22:05] <mathiaz> kirkland: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages?highlight=(NewPackages)
[22:05] <kirkland> mathiaz: okay
[22:06] <mathiaz> allright - that's all from the last meeting I think
[22:07] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Specification writing
[22:07] <mathiaz> so at UDS we talked a lot - now is time to write down specifications
[22:07] <mathiaz> dendrobates-: who is doing what ?
[22:08] <mathiaz> dendrobates-: I'm not sure about this as most of our discussed topics at uds hadn't blueprints registered
[22:08] <lukehasnoname> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid/Report/Server
[22:08] <dendrobates-> If you chaired a session, you should write the spec.
[22:08] <lukehasnoname> for those who ahven't seen it
[22:08] <dendrobates-> I will edit them as necessary
[22:08] <mathiaz> dendrobates-: ok.
[22:08] <dendrobates-> and do any that are left over.
[22:08] <mathiaz> so the deadline for spec write in thursday next week
[22:09] <ivoks> ok
[22:09] <dendrobates-> just a reminder that writing a spec does not mean that it will end up in intrepid for sure.
[22:10] <dendrobates-> but it is a good start.
[22:10] <mathiaz> dendrobates-: I was wondering if it makes sense to have Intrepid in the name of the wiki page
[22:10] <ivoks> do we need to write specs for stuff we disccused and agreed on at uds?
[22:10] <mathiaz> I've gone through all specs, that are still valid
[22:10] <mathiaz> ivoks: it would help
[22:10] <mathiaz> ivoks: to keep track of what we're doing and implementation
[22:10] <ivoks> mathiaz: ok, i'll do my part
[22:11] <dendrobates-> mathiaz: sure.
[22:11] <mathiaz> once the spec are written, they'll be added to the Roadmap
[22:11] <mathiaz> and we'll review the progress during the server meeting
[22:11] <mathiaz> ivoks: it will help wrt to freezes and so on
[22:12] <ivoks> right
[22:12] <mathiaz> ivoks: I'd also use them to extract tasks for new contributors
[22:12] <mathiaz> ivoks: so that people can get started quickly
[22:12] <mathiaz> if you have an idea but don't have time, write a spec
[22:13] <ivoks> :)
[22:13] <mathiaz> and may be someone else will pick it up and do the work :D
[22:13] <dendrobates-> please check if a spec exists, before you create it, though.
[22:14] <mathiaz> dendrobates-: where ? in lp or on the wiki ?
[22:14] <mathiaz> dendrobates-: does it make sense to take over old wiki pages and refresh them ?
[22:14] <dendrobates-> lp is where it matters.
[22:14] <mathiaz> dendrobates-: ok.
[22:15] <mathiaz> if someone writes up a new wiki page for an existing blueprint in lp, dendrobates- can update the spec in lp
[22:15] <mathiaz> update the drafter, etc... of the blueprint in lp
[22:16] <effie_jayx> @now
[22:16] <mathiaz> let's move on
[22:16] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Discussion on current status of J2EESupport options
[22:16] <mathiaz> Koon: what's the state of j2ee ?
[22:17] <Koon> ok, so I've been exploring our options
[22:17] <nealmcb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/J2EESupport
[22:17] <Koon> yes, work in progress
[22:17] <Koon> I mostly checked Tomcat and Geronimo for now
[22:17] <Koon> but I already have a few questions I would like to discuss
[22:18] <Koon> Two of our options are "modular" targets
[22:18] <Koon> a framework where you pull in plug-ins based on what you want to do
[22:18] <Koon> (geronimo and GlassFish v3 do this)
[22:19] <Koon> the interesting part being you can use them just as a servlet container, or pull things all the way to make a full J2EE server, whatever you need
[22:19] <Koon> so a single product would allow us to cover all the types of needs
[22:20] <sommer> I forget, but is glassfish v3 going to be out by intrepid?
[22:21] <Koon> sommer: not really
[22:21] <sommer> gotcha, just double checking
[22:21] <mathiaz> Koon: have you looked at tomcat5.5 packaging ?
[22:21] <Koon> is modularity something we should try to have ?
[22:21] <ivoks> so, glassfish isn't really an option
[22:21] <Koon> mathiaz: yes
[22:21] <mathiaz> Koon: is it modular or monolitic ?
[22:22] <Koon> there are a few issues with the tomcat5.5 package, nothing too complicated to fix (see wiki)
[22:22] <dendrobates-> we should wait for the matrix to be finished before we try to draw any conclusions
[22:22] <Koon> tomcat5.5 is just a servlet container, nothing more, nothing less
[22:22] <dendrobates-> modularity sounds good though.
[22:22] <Koon> dendrobates-: I have the question about maven
[22:23] <Koon> it's the build system used in Geronimo and Glassfish v3 (possibly others)
[22:23] <mathiaz> Koon: IMO aiming at being modular is a good thing
[22:23] <mathiaz> Koon: modular => multiple binary packages
[22:23] <mathiaz> Koon: you may want to have a look Zope3 also
[22:23] <dendrobates-> Koon: what about maven?
[22:23] <faulkes-> arguably modular == multiple binary packages ;)
[22:24] <Koon> mathiaz: yes. We would ship the base, the modules + a few metapackages
[22:24] <mathiaz> Koon: IIRC upstream uses lot's of smal package
[22:24] <faulkes-> sematics, I know
[22:24] <Koon> dendrobates-: it cannot really be used to build a package in the debian way
[22:24] <faulkes-> but I agree in principle that modular is better
[22:25] <Koon> dendrobates-: afaict having a deb-compliant Maven is still work in progress at debian-java
[22:25] <dendrobates-> Koon: What are the technical issues with maven?
[22:25]  * nijaba waves (and presents excuses for being late)
[22:25] <Koon> dendrobates-: maven downloads at build time all the build deps, dozens of jars from everywhere
[22:26] <mathiaz> Koon: this should be put somewhere in the Spec
[22:26]  * faulkes- hides from nijaba in fear of his well overdue WP
[22:26] <mathiaz> Koon: so that we know what work needs to be done
[22:27] <Koon> dendrobates-: to use maven in the deb building, it needs to be patched to use a common local repository, and all maven plugins must be packaged as individual packages
[22:27] <Koon> so that we can list them as deb build-deps
[22:27] <dendrobates-> Koon: understood.
[22:28] <Koon> it looks like a lot more work than packaging geronimo itself.
[22:28] <Koon> last question : am I right to assume all build deps for a package targeted for Main must also be in Main ?
[22:28] <mathiaz> Koon: yes
[22:29] <Koon> ok
[22:29] <soren> main must be self-contained.
[22:29] <Koon> I'll continue to investigate options, trying to have a complete matrix by Friday
[22:30] <Koon> dendrobates-: Geronimo was every reactive, provided a patch to allow OpenJDK-6 building
[22:30] <dendrobates-> Koon: that is a good sign.
[22:31] <Koon> ok, next item
[22:31] <mathiaz> Koon: great - thanks.
[22:31] <emgent> @now
[22:31] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] front end for ubuntu-vm-builder
[22:32] <mathiaz> kirkland: what have you created on your way back from UDS ?
[22:32] <kirkland> mathiaz: a simple frontend for generating the verbose arguments ubuntu-vm-builder accepts
[22:32] <kirkland> mathiaz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/ubuntu-vm-builder.html
[22:32] <kirkland> mathiaz: it's javascript, so it runs in your local browser, no posting of passwords and machine configurations over the net
[22:33] <kirkland> mathiaz: and it could give us something to work with in building vm's as a webservice
[22:33] <dendrobates-> kirkland: it's a good start, thanks
[22:33] <owh> kirkland: What happened to the --exec flag?
[22:33] <kirkland> mathiaz: I also have python code that does the same, but requires GET/POST
[22:33] <kirkland> owh: i'm accepting patches ;-)
[22:33] <owh> Heh
[22:33] <kirkland> owh: i have about 90% coverage of ubuntu-vm-builder's options
[22:33] <owh> kirkland: I already did in the actual code :)
[22:34] <nijaba> kirkland: for 0.4 that is ;)
[22:34] <owh> Cool, in my spare life, I'll have a squiz.
[22:34] <kirkland> nijaba: touche, yes
[22:34] <kirkland> i thought a few people here might find it useful
[22:34] <ScottK2> kirkland: I think I know who needs to work on our config editor for deploying different server flavors ...
[22:34] <kirkland> and figured i'd talk with soren more about what his vision is on a front end in the future
[22:35]  * owh wrote a local little script for the same effect, never thought to share it.
[22:35]  * nijaba hugs kirkland as he find it an extremely good start
[22:35] <kirkland> thanks, nijaba
[22:36] <kirkland> you can wget the html and run it locally, as file:///tmp/ubuntu-vm-builder.html as well...  as i said, no webserver required
[22:36] <owh> Nice.
[22:36] <zul> javascript needs to be turned on though :)
[22:37] <kirkland> mathiaz: that's all.
[22:37] <nijaba> zul: heh, I'm sure we can do a version in flash just for you
[22:37] <owh> Yuk
[22:37]  * ScottK2 hides his eyes.
[22:37] <kirkland> nijaba: ActiveX!
[22:37] <mathiaz> kirkland: great !
[22:38]  * faulkes- agrees with kirkland
[22:38] <zul> nijaba: ouch you are making my brain freeze
[22:38] <faulkes-> ActiveX is definitely the way to go
[22:38] <Koon> faulkes-: it has always been
[22:38] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Status of the Ubuntu Server Survey
[22:38] <mathiaz> owh: what's the state of this ?
[22:38] <nijaba> good news on that front
[22:39] <nijaba> limesurvey just informed me that they fixed the security issues kees found
[22:39]  * owh has comments, but will wait until nijaba is done.
[22:39] <nijaba> so it should, in theory, be suitable for usage in the dc
[22:39] <nijaba> but we need a counter verification by kees first
[22:40] <owh> How far along is that?
[22:40] <nijaba> that -vv
[22:41] <owh> The verification.
[22:41] <owh> Or does kees need be asked?
[22:41] <nijaba> well, that really depends on kees load, I can't predict
[22:41] <kees> hello!  (sorry, I'm still lagging behind reality -- conf + weekend + sick == eeeek)
[22:41]  * owh sends a cup of hot Milo to kees.
[22:41] <kees> :):)
[22:42] <nijaba> question was; when could you be able to check limesurvey again
[22:42] <nijaba> as limesurvey says they fixed the issues you found
[22:42] <kees> re-checks are usually easier and faster.  given my current load, though, I don't think I can get to it this week.
[22:42] <kees> perhaps early next week?  tuesday maybe?
[22:42] <owh> Can we book an appointment :)
[22:42] <kees> heh
[22:43] <kees> if only all security issues booked appointments.  :)
[22:43] <owh> Ah, we're not an issue, we're an audit :)
[22:43] <owh> So, if Tuesday happens, then next meeting we should be pretty close then?
[22:43] <nijaba> but issues for stuff in main take precedence, obviously, to the audits
[22:44] <kees> very true, but my load tends to alternate depending on surprises.  ;)  Anyway, let's say I'll have you something by EOD on tuesday.
[22:44]  * nijaba thanks kees in advance
[22:44] <owh> +1
[22:44]  * kees hugs owh and nijaba
[22:44] <nijaba> then I need to finalize my package for it, and we a re done
[22:45] <owh> Well on that note, let me add my two cents.
[22:45] <mathiaz> nijaba: package ? it's not part of the archive yet ?
[22:45] <owh> Related to the survey I've just joined the ubuntu-marketing team where a healthy discussion is underway to discuss how a marketing team can provide resources to LoCos and teams such as ubuntu-server.
[22:45] <nijaba> please
[22:45] <owh> Related to the survey I've just joined the ubuntu-marketing team where a healthy discussion is underway to discuss how a marketing team can provide resources to LoCos and teams such as ubuntu-server.
[22:45] <owh> crap
[22:45] <owh> I joined because I felt that it would be beneficial for ubuntu-server to have a representation within marketing and because I have some personal marketing ideas for my company with respect to Ubuntu.
[22:45] <owh> I've also updated the embargo date on the proposed survey press release, that is, removed the April 2008 date reference and was hoping that we would come to a release schedule or plan that I could report back to ubuntu-marketing as an example of how u-s could work with u-m.
[22:46] <owh> Is there additional work we could do before we spring our survey on the world?
[22:46] <mathiaz> owh: could some of the task be done in parallel ?
[22:46] <nijaba> that would make sense
[22:46] <owh> mathiaz: I don't understand hour question.
[22:46] <owh> s/h/y/
[22:46] <mathiaz> owh: hm.. let me rephrase
[22:47] <mathiaz> owh: how could u-m help us in the survey ?
[22:47] <mathiaz> owh: if they have other ideas or can help on the press release text, that can be done while we're waiting for kees audit
[22:48] <owh> mathiaz: Well, right now I think that they might have additional contacts. It appears that they are revitalising after a hiatus. I agree with the latter points. I'll start the ball running after this meeting for that.
[22:48] <mathiaz> owh: refining the list of communication channels to announce the survey can also be done at the same time
[22:48] <santiago-pgsql> date
[22:48] <owh> Yes
[22:48] <owh> santiago-pgsql: That will depend on nijaba and kees.
[22:49] <owh> It may also depend on other releases, but I'm (not yet) aware of those.
[22:49] <owh> How about we aim for June 15 - picked out of a hat.
[22:49] <mathiaz> owh: well we don't know when the audit will be done
[22:50] <mathiaz> owh: I wouldn't pick a date
[22:50] <owh> That's fine by me, but our time-line is slipping if we want to use the data for our next release.
[22:50] <nijaba> let's pick a date the day we have the ful stuff running in the dc...
[22:50] <owh> Cool
[22:51] <nijaba> owh: me too, but it would be bad to announce something that is not ready
[22:51] <mathiaz> owh: anything else to add on this front ?
[22:51] <owh> nijaba: I'll use the intervening time to sharpen up the release and release process. All good.
[22:51] <owh> mathiaz: Nope, I'm done.
[22:52] <mathiaz> owh: great - I'm eager to see how we can collaborate with the ubuntu-marketing team
[22:52] <lukehasnoname> Hey guys, I gotta jet, workday is over. I assume this log will be posted on wiki, so at your convenience, "What, if any, progress is being made on having some sort of GUI/web-based frontend admin/monitor for server services? What was discussed at UDS about this?"
[22:52]  * nijaba nods
[22:52] <owh> mathiaz: You and me both.
[22:52] <lukehasnoname> seeya next Wed
[22:52] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Any other business
[22:53] <mathiaz> anything else to add ?
[22:53] <zul> yes just one
[22:53] <zul> 8.04.1 is coming out in early july I encourage people to test out server related SRUs they can be found in the wiki
[22:53] <ivoks> right
[22:54] <owh> In brief answer to lukehasnoname, kirkland and I are still working on the status for init.d scripts. We've found some bugs thanks to a discussion yesterday with lamont. I've committed to making some patches and a bug report. You can add it as an action point.
[22:54] <nijaba> tomorrow is the deadline for bugs picked for it right?
[22:54] <dendrobates-> Howard posted this to openldap-devel about uds: http://www.openldap.org/lists/openldap-devel/200805/msg00087.html
[22:54] <soren> zul: Early June? The release schedule says July?
[22:55] <zul> I said early July didnt I?
[22:55] <nijaba> July 3rd
[22:55] <soren> zul: Wow..
[22:55] <soren> zul: Yes, you did.
[22:55]  * soren puts down the crack pipe
[22:56] <owh> Also, the Intrepid Report shown at the beginning of the meeting shows comments about calendar servers. I've been working with Jo Erlend Schinstad on docs for Darwin Calendar Server and it has now been packaged for Intrepid: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CalendarServer and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/182591
[22:56] <Koon> soren: you've been doing too much support in #ubuntu-virt
[22:56] <zul> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/StableReleaseTracker please test the ones marked needs testing
[22:57] <soren> Koon: Feel like taking over? :)
[22:57] <Koon> soren: nobody could replace you, you know that :)
[22:57] <zul> owh: really wow!
[22:57] <nijaba> double wow
[22:57] <ivoks> umm
[22:57]  * owh takes no credit for the packaging.
[22:57] <ivoks> on this list, one can't really tell if these are hardy or dapper sru
[22:58]  * owh just wrote the docs and seconded the packaging request :)
[22:58] <zul> ivoks: they are all for hardy
[22:58] <ivoks> maybe we should add 'version' column?
[22:58] <mathiaz> owh: any plans to move relevant bits of the how-to to help.ubuntu.com ?
[22:58] <zul> ivoks: but yeah I can do that
[22:58] <ivoks> zul: including openldap2.3?
[22:59] <owh> mathiaz: Well, most of the howto should become obsolete once I've had a moment to test the package.
[22:59] <ivoks> hardy has 2.4 :)
[22:59] <zul> ivoks: ill fix that
[22:59] <owh> mathiaz: But given that I wasn't at UDS, this was my opportunity to point at DCS :)
[23:00] <mathiaz> owh: great! - thanks for the heads up
[23:00] <mathiaz> owh: I'm sure zul will appreciate this
[23:00] <mathiaz> Time to wrap up
[23:00] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
[23:00] <mathiaz> next week, same time, same place ?
[23:00] <owh> +1
[23:01] <soren> You bet.
[23:01] <zul> can we make it an hour earlier if possible
[23:01] <ivoks> zul: +1
[23:01] <Koon> zul: +1
[23:01] <owh> Uhm, that would be 4 am for me :(
[23:02] <kirkland> +1
[23:02]  * owh is in a dressing gown with a hot cup of coffee :)
[23:02] <mathiaz> could we make it 4 hours earlier instead ?
[23:02] <kirkland> oh, sorry, i wasn't +1'ing the one hour earlier
[23:02] <mathiaz> that would be 17:00 UTC
[23:02] <kirkland> mathiaz: i'm okay with that
[23:02] <owh> 1am, hmm, that's even worse mathiaz.
[23:03] <ivoks> owh: well, it's midnight here now :D
[23:03] <Koon> 16:00 UTC ?
[23:03] <owh> Well, if there is a majority for a different time, I'll turn up when it happens. I might not be handing out Milo, but I'll be there.
[23:04] <ivoks> it's really hard to decide; at this time my brain doesn't function very well, but at 16UTC i might not even make it :/
[23:04] <owh> So far it seems that 1 hour earlier is a better deal for many.
[23:04] <owh> The ubuntu-marketing team has a calculator. I'll find the URL.
[23:05] <owh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings
[23:05] <owh> You all get to vote :)
[23:05] <mathiaz> well - someone will always be screwed
[23:05] <ivoks> right
[23:05] <mathiaz> ok - so I'll send an email to u-server with a new proposal
[23:05] <owh> mathiaz: I recon, propose a time and ask again.
[23:05] <dendrobates-> mathiaz: didn't you post this time to the ml and decide it was best?
[23:06] <ivoks> let's just keep it as is
[23:06] <mathiaz> for a new time - need to check with the calendar
[23:06] <mathiaz> and for next week, same time, same place
[23:06] <sommer> works for me :)
[23:06] <mathiaz> dendrobates-: yes - that was before owh was attending meeting at 5 AM for him
[23:06] <nijaba> thanks mathiaz
[23:06] <dendrobates-> ouch
[23:07] <owh> I'm cool with 5am, just not so much 4am.
[23:07]  * Koon waves goodnight to everyone
[23:07] <mathiaz> all right - thanks all
[23:07] <dendrobates-> bye
[23:07] <owh> Thanks mathiaz
[23:07] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
[23:07] <owh> Later all.
[23:07] <sommer> thanks mathiaz, later on all
[23:07] <ivoks> bye
[23:09] <kirkland> bye
[23:34] <Seeker`> mathiaz: sorry for the lack of a working mootbot - I'm hoping to be able to fix it on friday
[23:35] <mathiaz> Seeker`: np.
[23:35] <mathiaz> Seeker`: we can run meeting without it - however it's a big helper when it comes to summarize a meeting
[23:36] <mathiaz> Seeker`: and prepare the minutes - thanks for your work ! :)
[23:36] <Seeker`> mathiaz: There have been problems with hosting over the past few months, and it doesn't seem to want to work on its current host, and i'm not sure why
[23:37] <Seeker`> not a problem - I really need to do more work on it, I haven't touched the code much in > 1 year
[23:45] <viperhoot> hmmm the meeting of the américas has an error in the hour
[23:46] <viperhoot> is 00:00 UTC
[23:47] <viperhoot> only for consideration ;)
[23:50] <pochu> Rinchen: ^ (you're in the fridge team, right? :) )
[23:50] <Rinchen> hello
[23:51] <Rinchen> viperhoot, is that for a particular event? or everything consistently in the title?
[23:52] <viperhoot> Rinchen, yes, for the  Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board
[23:52] <viperhoot> it is programmed for the 00:00 UTC not 01:00 UTC
[23:53] <Rinchen> ok, let me have a look
[23:53] <Rinchen> brb
[23:53] <viperhoot> Rinchen, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas ;)
[23:53] <Rinchen> well, I need the fridge entry :-)
[23:54] <Rinchen> viperhoot, this one? http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1455
[23:54] <viperhoot> yes, May 28th at (8:00pm) Eastern
[23:55] <cody-somerville> The meeting is in 65 minutes.
[23:55] <viperhoot> 00:00 UTC
[23:55] <Rinchen> hmm something is off on the timezone calcs it seems.
[23:55] <viperhoot> cody-somerville, yes :D i'm member candidate for this meeting :D
[23:55] <Rinchen> I'll fix the entry
[23:56] <Rinchen> that means 00:00 UTC if my math is correct
[23:56] <viperhoot> Rinchen, ejem
[23:56] <cody-somerville> EST is actually EDT right now
[23:56] <cody-somerville> So it is -4 instead of regular -5
[23:57] <viperhoot> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=5&day=29&year=2008&hour=00&min=0&sec=0&p1=0 ;)
[23:57] <Rinchen> cody-somerville, yeah, we'll have to remember to list things as GMT until we figure that out
[23:57] <Rinchen> cody-somerville, I'm not sure what script populates this topic
[23:57] <Rinchen> @now
[23:58] <Rinchen> I fixified it ;-)
[23:58] <Rinchen> er
[23:58] <Rinchen> hmm
[23:58] <Rinchen> the calendar entry is correct but not everything else
[23:58] <Rinchen> @denver
[23:58] <cody-somerville> @toronto
[23:58] <Rinchen> @americas/denver
[23:58] <pochu> @ schedule denver
[23:58] <Rinchen> I always forget the commands
[23:59] <pochu> :)
[23:59] <viperhoot> @ schedule lima
[23:59] <cody-somerville> @schedule toronto
[23:59] <Rinchen> ok, well, I updated the fridge.  I think I remember a script running hourly which updates this channel
[23:59] <viperhoot> ok
[23:59] <pochu> !bye