[00:53] <owh> nijaba: How is the hosting for the survey coming along?
[00:57] <owh> kirkland: I didn't see any further replies to our lsb list submission. There was one initial response to which I responded: http://lists.debian.org/debian-lsb/2008/05/maillist.html#00000
[01:28] <kirkland> owh: hmm, that's disappointing
[01:28] <kirkland> owh: remind me...  do we have a debian bug filed?
[01:29] <owh> kirkland: Well, there are the two bugs that were there in the beginning, but they seem to have languished. Lemmie look for the numbers.
[01:32] <owh> kirkland: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=291148 and http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=208010
[01:32] <uvirtbot`> Debian bug 291148 in debian-policy "status action for init.d scripts" [Wishlist,Open]
[01:33] <owh> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=208010
[01:33] <uvirtbot`> Debian bug 208010 in debian-policy "Require init.d scripts comply with LSB" [Wishlist,Open]
[01:33] <kirkland> owh: hmm, i think that bug should be against lsb-base
[01:33] <kirkland> rather than debian policy
[01:33] <kirkland> owh: I'm going to open a new bug, and reference that one
[01:33] <owh> kirkland: No, the discussion went right off the rails - in my opinion - and became a discussion about policy.
[01:34] <owh> kirkland: A bit like it did here :)
[01:34] <kirkland> owh: what's your "no" in reference to?
[01:34] <kirkland> owh: "No" it should not be against lsb-base
[01:34] <owh> kirkland: Ah, I see your confusion :)
[01:34] <owh> kirkland: Yes, there should be a bug against lsb-base, but it was already that initially, it was changed to a policy bug.
[01:35] <owh> IIRC
[01:35] <kirkland> owh: ugh
[01:36] <owh> See what I mean?
[01:36] <owh> Or did I misunderstand what happened?
[01:38] <kirkland> owh: okay, well, here's what I'm going to do....
[01:38] <kirkland> owh: I'm going to open a new bug against lsb-base in debian
[01:39] <kirkland> owh: attach our patch
[01:39] <kirkland> reference the policy bug for history
[01:39] <owh> Both of the bugs I showed you?
[01:40] <owh> As in, reference both?
[01:40] <owh> Would it not be simpler to reference our LP bug with its attachments?
[01:40] <owh> Or is that not a done thing?
[01:42] <owh> kirkland: FYI, ours is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/at/+bug/203169
[01:42] <uvirtbot`> Launchpad bug 203169 in samba ""status" function for init scripts" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[01:42]  * owh had it open in a window :)
[01:43] <owh> kirkland: Hmm, wonder why it shows as a samba bug - perhaps because that's the only one Confirmed.
[01:54] <ScottK> Policy is the right place to end in Debian, but in Debian the Policy describes the facts on the ground, it doesn't generally lead them.
[01:55] <owh> Sorry, ScottK, I don't understand what you mean.
[01:56] <ScottK> No one will write it in the official policy until after there is a significant body of packages doing it.
[01:56] <ScottK> Policy reflects the established consensus.  It describes the current situation, not some future ideal.
[01:58] <owh> ScottK: So, are you saying that kirkland and I will need to approach every single package maintainer and ask them to implement this before we get any traction?
[01:58] <kirkland> owh: I think we need to get our 10-line patch accepted into lsb-base FIRST
[01:58] <owh> kirkland: I agree.
[01:59] <kirkland> owh: once that's there, we send our 3-4 line patches to a few dozen core service's init scripts
[01:59] <kirkland> owh: and perhaps other people will patch others
[01:59] <kirkland> owh: considering there hasn't been any movement on our patch to the debian-lsb list, i think we should file a bug (with patch) against lsb-base
[01:59] <owh> kirkland: So, the lsb-base package maintainer hasn't responded, neither has the lsb-list, what's next?
[02:00] <kirkland> owh: a bug against lsb-base with patch
[02:00] <owh> kirkland: The pessimistic side of me suspects that it will be marked as a dupe and shifted to policy, but I agree with your process.
[02:00] <kirkland> owh: perhaps
[02:00] <ScottK> owh: Not all, but I think kirkland's got it about right.
[02:01] <kirkland> owh: but here we're dealing with real and practical code, and not a policy document
[02:01] <kirkland> ScottK: cool, thanks for the validation, i was wondering what advice you might have
[02:01] <owh> Yes, and that is different from the two bugs so far.
[02:02] <ScottK> I'd also check and see if any of the lsb-base maintainers are active in Ubuntu and if so approach them directly.
[02:02] <owh> Now that is a top idea.
[02:02] <ScottK> This might be a good release goal for Lenny +1.
[02:02] <kirkland> owh: i thought you emailed the maintainer directly as a first step?
[02:03] <owh> kirkland: I did and received no reply.
[02:03] <owh> kirkland: Twice.
[02:03] <kirkland> owh: right, then you/we emailed the debian-lsb mailing list
[02:03] <ScottK> Is there a single maintainer or are there several (including uploaders - those are co-maintainers).
[02:03]  * ScottK runs off.
[02:03] <owh> kirkland: Yes.
[02:04]  * owh wonders if ScottK is talking about real running or virtual running :)
[02:04] <owh> kirkland: Let me have a squiz at the changelog. Perhaps we can get some ideas from there.
[02:04] <kirkland> owh: okay
[02:05] <kirkland> owh: ScottK: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/15201/
[02:06] <kirkland> attaching the patch
[02:07] <owh> kirkland: In the gutsy changelog I have there are lots of ubuntu people, Lamont Jones, Tollef Fog Heen, Michael Vogt, SJR, Matthias Klose. In Debian there are Christian Perrier, Chris Lawrence. I emailed Chris Lawrence and he features most in the Changelog.
[02:09] <owh> kirkland: That bug report looks good to me. When you've submitted it, I think we should add it to LP. Perhaps it should also contain a link to our LP bug.
[02:09] <kirkland> owh: definitely
[02:10] <kirkland> owh: I've submitted it, it takes 15 minutes or so to hit the system
[02:10] <owh> As in, it should link both ways.
[02:10] <kirkland> owh: yes, absolutely
[02:10] <owh> I mean, there's no point on doing this kind of stuff in isolation :)
[02:18] <kirkland> owh: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=483285
[02:18] <uvirtbot`> Debian bug 483285 in lsb-base "lsb-base: lsb status_of_proc() function" [Wishlist,Open]
[02:19] <owh> I'll add it to ours
[02:19] <owh> kirkland: Do you think I should also add the other Debian bug to our bug?
[02:20] <kirkland> owh: i'm doing it now
[02:20] <emgent> heya people
[02:20] <owh> kirkland: I'll stop typing then :)
[02:20] <kirkland> owh: updated https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/debian/+source/lsb/+bug/203169
[02:20] <uvirtbot`> Launchpad bug 203169 in samba ""status" function for init scripts" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[02:20] <owh> emgent: Salutations. What is your challenge today?
[02:21] <ajmitch> good day
[02:21] <emgent> owh: ?
[02:21] <owh> kirkland: Do you think we should also add the other Debian bug: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=208010
[02:21] <emgent> hi ajmitch :)
[02:21] <uvirtbot`> Debian bug 208010 in debian-policy "Require init.d scripts comply with LSB" [Wishlist,Open]
[02:22] <kirkland> owh: hmm, perhaps
[02:22] <kirkland> owh: but the debian-policy bugs aren't nearly as pertinent
[02:22] <owh> emgent: Well, when a new (new to me) person turns up and greets the room, I try to be helpful :)
[02:22] <owh> kirkland: No, but it shows that we mean business :)
[02:23] <owh> As in, we've done our homework as best we can.
[02:23] <kirkland> owh: sure
[02:23] <kirkland> owh: you can add it then, if you want
[02:23] <emgent> owh: gh
[02:23] <ajmitch> owh: great, so you can help me with any problems I may have? :)
[02:23] <emgent> kirkland: some news from upstream and debian peope to cron ?
[02:24] <owh> ajmitch: No, I know you - you're on your own :)
[02:24] <ajmitch> :(
[02:24] <kirkland> emgent: i haven't seen anything, sadly :-(
[02:24] <emgent> argh :-\
[02:24] <emgent> ok we will wait :P
[02:24] <owh> ajmitch: Ask and perhaps yea shall receive.
[02:25] <kirkland> emgent: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=482284
[02:25] <uvirtbot`> Debian bug 482284 in cron "crontab -e should use /usr/bin/sensible-editor" [Normal,Open]
[02:25] <emgent> yep i saw
[02:25] <ajmitch> owh: well I don't have any ubuntu server problems today
[02:25] <emgent> it`s in lp tracker
[02:25] <owh> ajmitch: Well then you'll just have to take your chances :)
[02:26]  * lamont still has mixed feelings about the sanity of init.d status options
[02:26] <owh> kirkland: Hmm, LP doesn't like two bugs for a distro about the same thing with a different ID.
[02:27] <kirkland> owh: okay, then leave as the one with the patch to lsb-base
[02:27] <owh> lamont: I recall you making a comment about set -e in the code, indicating that echo $? returned nada. If I recall that report from you correctly, can you elaborate because I don't understand it.
[02:27] <kirkland> lamont: what are your objections?
[02:27] <kirkland> owh: that was slangasek
[02:28] <owh> kirkland: Yeah, it won't take two debian-policy things.
[02:28] <owh> kirkland: Hmm, my memory is fading, I'm getting old :|
[02:28] <kirkland> owh: review the comments to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lsb/+bug/203169
[02:28] <uvirtbot`> Launchpad bug 203169 in lsb ""status" function for init scripts" [Wishlist,In progress]
[02:28] <owh> kirkland: I was just reading and noted it - my screen is on a satellite link and it was still refreshing.
[02:29] <owh> kirkland: lamont commented that it needs a full spec and perhaps should be in the start-stop daemon.
[02:30] <kirkland> lamont: owh: the functionality that is needed is described in the lsb spec itself
[02:30] <owh> kirkland: I agree.
[02:31] <owh> kirkland: To be fair, we're just providing step 1 of that, not even the full implementation, but at least the structure to hang the rest off.
[02:31] <kirkland> lamont: owh: and I'm not clear on how this would work in the start-stop-daemon...  this is a 3rd party evaluation of whether or not a service is running
[02:32] <kirkland> owh: what do you know of that we're missing?
[02:32] <lamont> owh: if the script is running with 'set -e' active, then any non-zero return results in the immediate exiting of the script... (see any of the various posix-like shell manpages...)
[02:32] <owh> lamont: Even in a function call?
[02:32] <lamont> the status of -e is inherited, yes.
[02:33] <owh> kirkland: Well we're only providing the infrastructure for the LSB spec. We don't provide the actual return codes for all the codes that are specified.
[02:33] <kirkland> owh: right
[02:34] <lamont> rather, I expect that the function would immediately exit with the non-zero status
[02:34] <owh> lamont: Hold on, that makes no sense to me, we're not talking about an exit with a return code, we're talking about a function return.
[02:34] <owh> lamont http://launchpadlibrarian.net/12710633/lsb.status.debdiff
[02:34] <owh> That's the lsb patch we're talking about.
[02:35] <lamont> -mix 790 : sh
[02:35] <lamont> -mix \! : foo() { false; echo bar; }
[02:35] <lamont> -mix \! : set -e
[02:35] <lamont> -mix \! : foo
[02:35] <lamont> -mix 791 :
[02:35] <owh> hmm
[02:36] <owh> lamont: So, you're saying that the pidofproc $daemon >/dev/null will terminate and never get to the next line?
[02:36] <lamont> so, if the calling script is running with set -e (as is recommended for init.d scripts), and the daemon is not running, then you'll get nothing but effectively "pidofproc $daemon >/dev/null; return 1"
[02:36] <lamont> exactly
[02:36] <owh> Crap
[02:36] <lamont> and this is why god invented if statements
[02:36] <owh> If that is the case then, the rest of the lsb code is also borked.
[02:38] <lamont> given my experience with the folks who tout lsb initscriptage, I find that completely unsurprising
[02:38]  * lamont had the privilege of fixing a whole bunch of lsb-ized initscripts in the hoary timeframe
[02:38] <kirkland> and that's the most annoying part about this whole experience
[02:39] <kirkland> we're not touting lsb
[02:39] <kirkland> i don't have any particular love for it
[02:39] <lamont> kirkland: I never said you were
[02:39] <owh> So, why are we doing this thing?
[02:40] <kirkland> i simply want to be able to determine if and when most any daemon is running or not
[02:40] <owh> I mean, I realise that it's needed, but its also borked.
[02:40] <lamont> the lsb code just most-reminds me of something written by first-year CS students and debugged into existance: it generally works
[02:40] <owh> lamont: It seems that our code has the set -e issue, but the pidofproc() function has the same issue.
[02:40] <kirkland> the place that makes the most sense to put this functionality is in /lib/lsb/init-functions, as that is inherited by almost any init script
[02:41] <owh> Hmm, so perhaps we need to "fix" pidofproc as well :(
[02:41] <lamont> fixing lsb stuff would be a major step forward for lsb, I believe
[02:41] <lamont> kirkland: and yes, in ithe init-functions makes lots of sense
[02:41] <lamont> of course, since that's sourced by everyone and his brother, making it slow would also get you attention from the "I can shave .37 seconds off the boot process" people
[02:42] <owh> So, lamont, is what kirkland and I are attempting just really the thin end of the wedge in your opinion, or are we just wasting our resources?
[02:42] <lamont> s/process/time/
[02:43] <lamont> I recognize the value of being able to see if a daemon is running.  and putting it into lsb/init-functions makes the most sense to me, given the push both in ubuntu and debian towards lsb-ized init scripts
[02:43] <lamont> hrm... make that "I recognize that many people see value in being able to"...
[02:43] <owh> ROTFL
[02:44] <owh> Stop making jokes like that, my stomach hurts.
[02:44] <lamont> at the same time, I'm not sure of the overall value to the security of the internet in having my grandmother be able to think she's doing a good job of administering a public-facing server
[02:44] <kirkland> pidofproc is a function that is provided by /lib/lsb/init-functions, and is used in various places
[02:44] <owh> kirkland: But if what lamont showed us is true, then it is also borked, unless I can't read the code properly.
[02:45] <kirkland> owh: test your patches
[02:45] <kirkland> owh: apply the init-functions patch
[02:46] <owh> kirkland: Specifically, this: /bin/pidof -o %PPID $1    status="$?"
[02:46] <lamont> owh: pidofproc needs a "if" in front of the /bin/pidof call, with the appropriate other changes, if it's to survive a -e script
[02:46] <kirkland> owh: then patch apache
[02:46] <owh> lamont: Are you talking about the same bit of code as I am?
[02:46] <lamont> exactly
[02:46] <owh> lamont: That's a relief :)
[02:46] <lamont> just search for =.*\$\?
[02:46] <lamont> :=(
[02:46] <owh> Yeah.
[02:47] <owh> There's more :)
[02:47] <lamont> er, =.*\$?
[02:47] <lamont> I like the "... || status=$?
[02:47] <lamont> nice construct
[02:47] <lamont> see killproc()
[02:48] <lamont> that's a clean and fixed version of how to set status=$?
[02:48] <kirkland> lamont: yes, that's concise
[02:49] <owh> lamont: Which version of the code are you looking at, I'm looking at a gutsy one that is to hand.
[02:49] <c1|freaky> is there any way to use a program as IDE on windows, and to work on files on a linux server? like u could do with the fish protocol? the only thing I need is a good IDE for windows which supports makefile projects (like eclips eg.) and I need a way to work on my files remotely in real time - does anyone know of a solution for that? maybe something like a webdrive but, i don't want to and can't
[02:49] <c1|freaky> use webdav.
[02:49] <c1|freaky> any idea?
[02:49] <lamont> hardy
[02:49] <owh> c1|freaky: Samba
[02:49] <kirkland> c1|freaky: samba
[02:49] <c1|freaky> it's not in my LAN
[02:50] <c1|freaky> i don't want to use a VPN
[02:50] <owh> c1|freaky: Set up an SSH tunnel.
[02:50] <c1|freaky> ssh tunnel for what?
[02:50] <owh> c1|freaky: To tunnel ftp mount for example.
[02:50] <kirkland> or sshfs
[02:50] <c1|freaky> there sadly seems to be no support for fish
[02:50] <owh> c1|freaky: Where?
[02:50] <c1|freaky> can i mount ssh fs on a windows machine?
[02:51] <c1|freaky> in windows
[02:51] <kirkland> dunno, haven't used windows in 8 years
[02:51] <owh> c1|freaky: Run a virtual machine or a cygwin.
[02:51] <c1|freaky> no i dont want that
[02:51] <kirkland> c1|freaky: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/search.html?cx=003883529982892832976%3Aly2fmeg302s&cof=FORID%3A9&q=sshfs+windows&sa=Search
[02:51] <owh> c1|freaky: Or boot from a Live CD :)
[02:51] <c1|freaky> ive got ubuntu installed (with gnome) on my desktop pc
[02:52] <c1|freaky> but i want to be able to code in windows too
[02:52] <c1|freaky> and in both operating systems at the same place and i dont want to format my other partition to fat32
[02:52] <c1|freaky> i could use SVN
[02:52] <c1|freaky> but i dont have a simple method to manage svn repos
[02:53] <lamont> and besides, svn sucks
[02:53] <owh> c1|freaky: Eclipse comes with one built in :)
[02:53] <owh> lamont: There is that :)
[02:53] <c1|freaky> owh: with what built in?
[02:53] <lamont> er, I mean, svn fails to work well for anything more than a single-developer
[02:54] <c1|freaky> why should it fail its made for that
[02:55] <lamont> c1|freaky: it creates branches fast (so what).  merges of any complex source project in svn are a multi-day (maybe just several hour) nightmare, since it doesn't actually track patchsets
[02:55] <lamont> the current generation of version control systems (bzr, git, hg) all track branchsets, and therefore give you fast merges (which is what we do care about)
[02:55] <owh> lamont: I'm looking at the hardy version of init-functions, I cannot see what you showed us as the nice construct.
[02:56] <kirkland> owh: line 129
[02:56] <kirkland>             /sbin/start-stop-daemon --stop --signal "$sig" --pidfile "$pidfile" --quiet $name_param || status="$?"
[02:56] <kirkland> (and friends)
[02:56] <lamont> and above that is "status=0", to complete the assignments
[02:56] <kirkland> right, as lamont says
[02:57] <owh> Hmm, while I believe you both, I must be going blind.
[02:57] <c1|freaky> i gotta find a good solution for me and other people. the best thing would be direct remove access but webdav fails to support https on win vista
[02:57] <c1|freaky> *remote not remove
[02:58] <lamont> apparently hg (aka mercurial) provides some pretty good windoze support
[02:58]  * lamont has never used hg though.
[02:59] <c1|freaky> damn
[02:59] <c1|freaky> i guess the only and one solution is using linux then?
[03:00] <linuxmademecrazy> hello people!
[03:00] <linuxmademecrazy> ._. again
[03:00] <linuxmademecrazy> lol
[03:00] <owh> kirkland: Line 129 is: if [ -z "$sig" ]; then
[03:00] <c1|freaky> well thank you for the help
[03:00]  * owh feels very dumb.
[03:00] <lamont> c1|freaky: hg has a windows client (possibly a server), and provides a UI on both platforms
[03:01] <kirkland> owh: you're looking at /lib/lsb/init-functions ?
[03:01] <owh> kirkland: Yup.
[03:01] <c1|freaky> lamont: yes but trac doesn't support it. is there any software like trac for hg?
[03:01] <kirkland> owh: grep "|| status" /lib/lsb/init-functions
[03:01] <owh> kirkland: Did it change between the final beta and current?
[03:01] <lamont> owh: lsb-base 3.2-4ubuntu1
[03:02] <lamont> c1|freaky: bugzilla comes to mind...
[03:02] <lamont> or what does trac do?
[03:02] <owh> lamont: Ah ha. Different version :(
[03:02] <lamont> owh: welcome to hardy... :-)
[03:02] <c1|freaky> lamont: example for trac: http://scm.code-1.de
[03:02] <owh> lamont: Nah, the VM I launched is running hardy, final rc, no updates since.
[03:03] <lamont> owh: I hope that VM isn't doing anything with SSL then... .:(
[03:03]  * owh wasn't expecting any updates in lsb given the flack we got for even thinking about asking to add our function :)
[03:03] <lamont> c1|freaky: ah - wiki+bug tracking...
[03:04] <lamont> with an almost content free description, FTW!
[03:04] <owh> lamont: No, it's a machine on my laptop, just to test bits, it's not connected to anything, provides no services, is not in production in any way.
[03:04] <c1|freaky> lamont: yes, a scm and it only supports subversion and bzr with a plugin
[03:04] <owh> But I'm not going to download 135Mb to update it as it's now asking me :(
[03:05] <lamont> c1|freaky: sounds like an interesting challenge then... windows tends to not be well supported in opensource stuff, simply because the bulk of opensource people don't use windows, so there's little motiviation to deal with it
[03:05] <owh> lamont, kirkland, given the set -e comments, I'll download the latest lsb source and make some patches.
[03:06] <kirkland> owh: sounds good
[03:06]  * owh has to go visit a client, so I'll be doing this tonight at the earliest.
[03:06] <c1|freaky> lamont: yea ... i could use subversion ... but if it's true that subversion isn't good when working in teams that sucks
[03:06] <owh> lamont: Thanks for taking the time to explain, appreciated.
[03:06] <ajmitch> owh: pub lunch with a client? ;)
[03:06] <owh> ajmitch: I wish :(
[03:06] <lamont> owh: latest lsb source is definitely where you want to base your changes, and it doesn't help that there's a kernel update in hardy-updates...
[03:06] <owh> ajmitch: Apart from that, it's 10 am around here :)
[03:07] <linuxmademecrazy> anyone in here familiar with accessing a non-encrypted shared network?
[03:07] <lamont> owh: glad to help
[03:07] <c1|freaky> its 4 AM here
[03:07] <ajmitch> owh: ah, you're a bit further west, I take it
[03:07] <lamont> linuxmademecrazy: depends on what you mean by "shared network"
[03:07] <owh> ajmitch: Further west than me gets wet fast.
[03:07] <lamont> I mean, we all plug our machines into something that exactly matches your description, but I doubt that's what you mean,..
[03:07] <kirkland> owh: okay, yeah, fixup pidofproc
[03:07] <lamont> what exactly is the question?
[03:07] <kirkland> owh: i'd say you should patch that separately
[03:08] <kirkland> owh: open a LP and a Debian bug, link them together
[03:08] <linuxmademecrazy> lamont, Umm, the network authentication is "shared". It's a shared network key. I have a lame motorola router that has been setup in a pretty unique way =/.
[03:08] <kirkland> as lamont said, that should be fixed regardless of whether or not they take our status_of_proc() function
[03:08] <owh> kirkland: Yeah, I'll give the whole thing the once over. Make our patch separate and make a bug/fix/patch for ubuntu and debian on the issues raised by lamont.
[03:09] <lamont> owh: and remember: don't call the muppets. :-)
[03:09] <linuxmademecrazy> lamont, the network authentication is "shared" and the data encryption is "disabled" and I have to provide it with a network key and an associated key index number.
[03:09]  * owh is not familiar with that reference :)
[03:09]  * lamont waits for linuxmademecrazy to describe the underlying authentication mechanism
[03:09] <linuxmademecrazy> lamont, this is the windows properties panel http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3467/47452358cn6.jpg
[03:09] <lamont> owh: don't worry.
[03:10] <owh> lamont: I suspect it has some rubberneck connotations though :)
[03:10] <lamont> linuxmademecrazy: ah.  802.11-ish network
[03:10] <linuxmademecrazy> lamont, I'm kinda, not that smart when it comes to linux, my strong suite is php T_T
[03:10] <linuxmademecrazy> lamont, you're familiar with it?!?! =D
[03:10] <lamont> familiar with 802.11.  nfc what windows means with what they've said on the control panel though
[03:11] <ajmitch> linuxmademecrazy: mentioning that it's a wireless network is relatively important :)
[03:11] <lamont> linuxmademecrazy: I expect that it's some incarnation of WPA or WEP
[03:11] <linuxmademecrazy> ajmitch, you might be right.... xD
[03:12] <owh> Later all.
[03:12] <lamont> linuxmademecrazy: so the question you want to be asking is "how do I configure linux to talk to a wireless network in a manner that windows describes as 'shared authentication, data encryption disabled'?"
[03:12] <kirkland> yeah, i'm calling it a night too
[03:12] <kirkland> adios
[03:12] <lamont> and I don't know what the answer to that question is
[03:12] <lamont> g'night kirkland/owh
[03:12] <linuxmademecrazy> lamont, yeah, pretty much.
[03:13] <lamont> linuxmademecrazy: to make your life more challenging, people who know linux well tend to not know windows well, and vice versa
[03:14] <linuxmademecrazy> lamont, ah, makes sense, I've never ever used linux before today, but I figure I should start learning, because I want to know how professional server management is done, and windows sucks when it comes to serving up some data.
[03:15] <linuxmademecrazy> lamont, having no internet on my ubuntu installation makes it a lot more challenging.
[03:15] <lamont> heh.  yeah
[03:16] <linuxmademecrazy> I've pretty much spent all day going through all the settings in the wireless network configuration GUI
[03:17] <linuxmademecrazy> The biggest problem I keep running into, is that the GUI doesn't want the associated index key that is used in association with the network key.
[03:17] <linuxmademecrazy> So, I figure my solution would have to deal with the terminal/console
[03:18] <linuxmademecrazy> which, I have no idea about the available commands.
[03:23] <lamont> linuxmademecrazy: google can sometimes be your friend... dunno
[03:25] <linuxmademecrazy> lamont, I love google, but linux documentation is very messy, and cluttered, compared to what I'm used to dealing with. I think I might have come up with one possible solution, but I don't want to switch back to my other harddrive until I have 2 or 3 possible solutions, becuase I hate wasting time for switching. This would be soooooo much easier with a second computer xD
[03:26] <lamont> yep.
[03:26] <lamont> linuxmademecrazy: or even vmware installed on the windows box with linux running inside that
[03:26] <linuxmademecrazy> once I get this all working and I start figuring out linux, I'm going to start documenting this crap <_<
[03:26]  * lamont tries to decide if he really just said that...
[03:27] <linuxmademecrazy> I can't just VMware my wireless card =/
[03:27] <lamont> linux needs more people who are willing to write docs
[03:27] <linuxmademecrazy> Yeah
[03:29]  * lamont waits for bind9 to finish building so that he can figure out if his current challenge is trivial, or a royal pita
[03:29] <linuxmademecrazy> First thing I'll be doing is writing a TUTORIAL on how to start off, from scratch, setting up a fully operational apache2 web server with php5, and RoR, networking (both wireless and lan) installation will be included.
[03:30] <linuxmademecrazy> After that, I'm scratching down all the terminal syntax and comands in a similar documentation style that php.net has.
[03:31] <linuxmademecrazy> Well, time for the moment of truth, I'll be back =D
[03:33] <m1r> hello , dhcp3-server dont start after reboot, how to fix this corect way ?
[03:45] <lamont> m1r: depends on what the error is behind  "dont start" ...
[03:46] <lamont> what does /var/log/daemon.log have to say on the subject?
[03:46] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #235378 in samba (main) "hardy samba critically slow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/235378
[03:49] <m1r> larmont , one sec
[03:51] <m1r> lamont: it is working fine after i start it manually , dont see nothing strange on daemon.log
[03:53] <lamont> m1r: meh.  /var/log/syslog
[03:53] <lamont> sorry about that
[03:53] <m1r> ok, sec
[03:55] <m1r> lamont:  this one is strange line : May 28 04:20:40 m1r0-desktop dhcdbd: message_handler: message handler not found under /com/redhat/dhcp/wlan2 for sub-path wlan2.dbus.get.domain_name
[03:55] <lamont> yeah, but it's also not dhcpd
[03:55] <lamont> that's dbus having a small fit
[03:56] <lamont> sigh.  so much for my challenge being trivial.
[03:57] <lamont> m1r: that'd be "not your issue"
[03:57] <m1r> lamont , yes i check further, long list in syslog :)
[03:58] <lamont> m1r: so anything from dhcpd?
[03:58] <m1r> dont see :/
[03:58] <m1r> only for wlan2 address reciving
[03:59] <m1r> lamont: i think that it isnt enabled to start at all
[04:00] <m1r> lamont: where can i check for dhcp3-server being run on start ?
[04:01] <linuxmademecrazy> Well, that was a fail
[04:02] <lamont> m1r: oh.  when you said "run it manually" you didn't mean "/etc/init.d/dhcp3-server start" ?
[04:03] <lamont> see /etc/default/dhcp3-server as well - that says what interfaces to listen on, for starters...
[04:03] <m1r> lamont:  i can start it normaly with start command, but it dont start at boot , if i managed to explain good
[04:03] <m1r> lamont:  it is set to eth0 in default/dhcp3-server
[04:03] <lamont> ok.  what does ls /etc/*.d/*dhcp3-server say?
[04:04] <lamont> should be a K file in rc1.d, and S files in rc[2-5].d
[04:04] <lamont> if the links are there, then I suspect that it's trying to start before eth0 exists... if the links aren't there, then that's the issue
[04:05] <m1r> ok one min to check
[04:06] <m1r> it says /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server - INTERFACES="eth0"
[04:07] <m1r> rc1.d have K20dhcp3-server file
[04:08] <m1r> should i check S files also ?
[04:08] <m1r> from 2-5 ?
[04:08] <m1r> 2 also have @K file
[04:09] <m1r> all have dhcp3-server info
[04:10] <m1r> lamont: how u mean : ﻿ then I suspect that it's trying to start before eth0 exists...
[04:10] <lamont> does rc2.d have S40dhcp3-server?
[04:11] <m1r> sec
[04:11] <m1r> lamont: seems that it dosent
[04:12] <m1r> lamont: only K@...
[04:13] <lamont> interesting.. I expect that "mv /etc/rc2.d/K40dhcp3-server /etc/rc2.d/S40dhcp3-server" will make the problem go away, at least until maybe the next time you upgrade dhcp3-server
[04:13] <lamont> as to how/why it got that way, no clue
[04:14] <m1r> lamont: i was instsalling EBOX , so maybe that is problem
[04:14] <m1r> lamont: i turned dhcp server OFF on ebox and maybe it deleted it
[04:15] <lamont> actually, it changed it from start to kill for runlevel 2
[04:15] <lamont> which is to say, "don't start dhcp3-server for runlevel 2, kthx"
[04:15] <lamont> hence the behavior you're seeing
[04:16] <lamont> m1r: runlevel 2 is the default, you see...
[04:16] <m1r> ah
[04:17] <lamont> and K files get told 'stop' and S files get told 'start' upon intering runlevel N, based on /etc/rcN.d/
[04:17] <m1r> sounds little messy but i think i got the point :) tnx for this tip lamont
[04:18] <lamont> m1r: man update-rc.d - the right way to fix it is burried in there _somewhere_, I expect
[04:19] <m1r> lamont: so , i am not sure should i edit it manually or try through ebox interface
[04:20] <lamont> well, if you do it manually, there's a chance that some future dist-upgrade will undo it...  not sure
[04:20]  * lamont has never used ebox, nor does he plan to use it.
[04:23] <m1r> lamont: yes i see, i will try first over ebox, then if it dont work i do manual add to rc2.d just for temp fix. tnx for help m8, really appriacte it
[04:24] <lamont> np.  have fun
[04:24] <m1r> yes you too , tnx m8 :)
[04:31] <m1r> i go reboot to test
[04:35] <m1r> lamont: it's fixed, tnx
[04:35] <m1r> the dirty way :P
[04:37] <lamont> heh
[05:50] <Christian> hi ?
[05:51] <m1r> hi
[05:51] <Christian> iam searching a ubuntu-server
[05:51] <Christian> apropiated
[05:51] <Christian> for my pc its a old cpu
[05:51] <Christian> intel pentium mmx at 233 mhz, 32 ram
[05:51] <m1r> Christian: that might be a bit low even for server
[05:52] <m1r> Christian: but it could run i think
[05:52] <lamont> Christian: I have a PII/233 with 192MB of RAM acting as a print server
[05:53] <Christian> yeah
[05:53] <m1r> lamont, that is powerfull machine :D loads of ram
[05:53] <lamont> amazingly, it hasn't actually used any swap
[05:53] <lamont> m1r: it's acting as a CAT5<->USB adapter. :)
[05:54] <m1r> :D
[05:54] <m1r> what little gadgets can do ;)
[05:55] <lamont> Christian: with 32MB, you may find that you have too little RAM
[05:56] <Christian> m
[05:56] <m1r> lowest i installed was 350mhz 128 ram if i recall
[05:56] <Christian> i have a hd
[05:56] <Christian> and have installed hardy heron
[05:56] <Christian> but
[05:56] <Christian> the hd dont runs in the pc
[05:57] <Christian> old "says download a kernel apropiated for u pc
[05:57] <lamont> which kernel is on the hd?
[05:57] <Christian> i dont now
[05:58] <Christian> the version
[05:58] <Christian> is
[05:58] <lamont> -generic _should_ work (that's what I'm running) on my PII/233
[05:58] <Christian> hardy heron.
[05:58] <lamont> I wonder if maybe you have a 64-bit kernel instead of the (necessary) 32-bit?
[05:58] <Christian> its alredy intalle
[05:58] <Christian> installed*
[05:59] <m1r> Christian: did u install 32bit version ?
[05:59] <Christian> yes
[06:00] <m1r> i recall got similar error when try run 64bit on 32bit system
[06:01] <m1r> Christian: u got cdrom on that machine ?
[06:01] <Christian> yes
[06:02] <m1r> u installed from that cdrom or on other pc then insterted HDD ?
[06:02] <Christian> in other pc
[06:02] <Christian> the hd its from the other pc, i install in other pc
[06:03] <Christian> sorry for my english its very bad xD iam from mexico..
[06:03] <m1r> i can only sugest u try install again on that PII from its cdrom
[06:03] <Christian> but the bios
[06:03] <Christian> its
[06:03] <Christian> broken
[06:04] <Christian> and dont work's
[06:04] <m1r> heh :)
[06:04] <Christian> i can't boot from the old pc
[06:04] <m1r> broken bios ? or just cant boot ?
[06:05] <Christian> i cant boot
[06:05] <Christian> check
[06:06] <Christian> i enter in the boot system and i changue the boot sequence CDRom, C:\, A:\,
[06:06] <Christian> save changues
[06:06] <Christian> reboot
[06:07] <Christian> when the pc starts
[06:07] <m1r> and it wont accept cd-rom for boot ?
[06:07] <Christian> the bios send this error
[06:07] <Christian> says
[06:07] <Christian> cmos cheksum failed - loading deafult <
[06:08] <Christian> and starts withh C:\
[06:08] <Christian> and not with a cdrom
[06:08] <Christian> :\
[06:08] <m1r> that sound like battery problem to me
[06:09] <m1r> battery non-functional >> ﻿cmos cheksum failed - loading deafult
[06:09] <Christian> i changued
[06:09] <Christian> and tested the battery
[06:09] <Christian> and works
[06:09] <Christian> :S
[06:09] <m1r> is ok now ?
[06:10] <Christian> no
[06:10] <Christian> says the same error
[06:11] <m1r> what motherboard u have ?
[06:12] <Christian> xD
[06:12] <Christian> asus vx97
[06:13] <m1r> not that i recomend , but u could try upgrade bios
[06:13] <m1r> Christian: does that pc save any settings u change in bios ?
[06:14] <Christian> yes
[06:14] <Christian> but when i reboot
[06:14] <Christian> the settings reset
[06:14] <m1r> they lost ?
[06:14] <Christian> to deafult
[06:14] <m1r> battery
[06:14] <Christian> default
[06:14] <Christian> the baterry its good
[06:14] <m1r> yes, imo is battery problem
[06:14] <Christian> the bios
[06:14] <Christian> fail
[06:14] <Christian> no
[06:14] <Christian> the battery its new
[06:14] <Christian> and have charge
[06:15] <m1r> Christian: http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/comp/mbsys/biosReappeared-c.html
[06:47] <Christian> xd
[07:12] <twb> I'm trying to build a hardy/i386 (i.e. partial) mirror using debmirror, but I can't work out where debmirror gets the HTTP *directory* from.
[07:13] <twb> Ah, -r
[07:18] <m11> hi itn
[07:18] <itn> hey
[07:18] <m11> whats the problem ?
[07:18] <itn> had someone start pm spamming me a bunch of trash, lol
[07:19] <m11> freenode mafia yea me too
[07:19] <m11> use /ignore name
[07:19] <itn> ah cool
[07:19] <itn> I have raid1, 750GB
[07:19] <itn> hardware raid
[07:19] <itn> this server is for the database
[07:19] <itn> does ubuntu usually do a boot partition?
[07:20] <itn> on gentoo I did 52MB /boot, 10GB /, 2GB /tmp and rest for /var
[07:20] <m11> if u chose auto it'll make swap and /
[07:20] <itn> yea I don't want swap
[07:20] <m11> then u need manually config every partition
[07:21] <itn> k, so is % all I can do?
[07:21] <m11> for boot set 100 to 200mb
[07:21] <m11> no
[07:21] <itn> dang, that much?
[07:21] <m11> :D
[07:21] <itn> gentoo /boot used like 32MB - you sure I really need that much?
[07:21] <twb> Why don't you want swap?  If you have 750GB, there's plenty of room for a swap partition.
[07:21] <twb> itn: Ubuntu kernels and ramdisks are large.
[07:21] <m11> 50mb should be enough , but...
[07:22] <m11> i always make minimum 100
[07:22] <itn> twb: well, according to mysql if I need swap I either don't have enough RAM or I've misconfigured the server.. also read swap can create some other probs
[07:22] <itn> hm, how large is large?
[07:22] <twb> itn: MySQL developers are insane, though
[07:22] <itn> oh, are they? lol
[07:23] <twb> If you don't have swap, and you run out of memory, the kernel will start force-killing the most memory-hungry processes
[07:23] <twb> This is Extremely Not Good if those processes are important services
[07:23] <m11> with 750gb disk 2gb swap shouldnt hurt
[07:23] <itn> I realize that.. just have to properly configured everything
[07:24] <itn> otherwise I loose a couple gigs of space
[07:24] <m11> itn , always better to leave room to breathe for system
[07:24] <itn> the servers goes up to 32G/ram and I'm starting with 4G
[07:24] <twb> It means that with the default ulimits, a user's fork bomb can destroy your mysql database
[07:24] <itn> not a multiuser system
[07:24] <twb> Well, I won't try to convince you further.
[07:25] <itn> heh k
[07:25] <twb> Because I don't care enough about you, see.
[07:25] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #235401 in postfix (main) "Please sync postfix 2.5.2-0 (main) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/235401
[07:25] <m11> itn always better to leave room for system to breathe
[07:25] <itn> well, the manual partitioner isn't excepting MB
[07:25] <itn> only %
[07:25] <twb> *accepting
[07:26] <twb> Are you using parted?
[07:26] <itn> yes
[07:26] <itn> parted?
[07:26] <twb> Use the "units mb" command
[07:26] <twb> Oh, you answered yes to something else.
[07:26] <itn> your spelling correction =)
[07:27] <itn> I'm in the gui, guessing I should get into the cli
[07:27] <twb> You cannot do RAID with the LiveCD's installer
[07:27] <itn> it is hardware raid
[07:27] <m11> itn , i hope u didnt download livecd :D
[07:27] <twb> Oh.
[07:28] <itn> I downloaded the only thing that it showed available
[07:28] <itn> I picked server edition / amd64 and that was it
[07:28] <twb> There are three CDs: the desktop (live), alternate (d-i) and server (d-i) CDs
[07:28] <itn> oh
[07:28] <twb> Hmm, server edition USED to be a command-line CD
[07:28] <twb> That is, no live component
[07:28] <m11> still it twb :)
[07:29] <twb> OK.
[07:29] <m11> it/is
[07:29] <twb> itn: so if you are in a GUI, you clearly aren't using the server install CD
[07:29] <itn> start with gui, if you hits esc you can go to boot:
[07:29] <itn> no I am
[07:29] <twb> If you say so.
[07:29] <itn> at text mode now
[07:29] <twb> At 4:30pm I can't be bothered arguing.
[07:29] <m11> :D
[07:29] <itn> heh
[07:30] <itn> I have ubuntu-8.04-server-amd64.iso
[07:30] <m11> ok great
[07:30] <m11> it should work with 200Mb as setup for boot ?
[07:30] <twb> I normally give 256MB for /boot, which is plenty.
[07:30] <m11> more then enough
[07:31] <twb> Note that unless you're doing software raid, there's not a lot of point making /boot a separate partition
[07:31] <itn> k
[07:31] <itn> someone else told me that
[07:31] <twb> BTW, LVM is a very good idea.
[07:31] <itn> lvm?
[07:31] <m11> logical volume manager
[07:31] <itn> what I figured
[07:31] <itn> never used one though
[07:32] <twb> It allows you to free your service (say, scalix), make a snapshot partition (only takes a few seconds), then unfreeze the service.  Then you can backup from the snapshot partition and get a coherent database dump without having to stop service for the two-hour backup period.
[07:32] <itn> thx for your help btw
[07:32] <twb> s/free/freeze/
[07:32] <itn> oh wow, very nice
[07:32] <twb> it also allows you to change partition sizes, and move partitions between disks, easily.
[07:32] <twb> Incidentally, if by "hardware raid" you mean "fake raid", don't use it.
[07:33] <itn> well, I have a raid adapter
[07:33] <twb> fake raid is the hardware raid you get on raid cards that cost $10 instead of $300
[07:33] <twb> It's not really hardware raid
[07:33] <itn> hm, I'm not sure then
[07:33] <itn> it is LSI SAS 5/iR adapter
[07:33] <twb> itn: how much did it cost?
[07:34] <itn> um, a bit more than $10
[07:34] <itn> let me find my dell paperwork
[07:34] <twb> If it cost hundreds of dollars, it's probably real raid
[07:34] <twb> If it costs tens of dollars, it's probably fake raid
[07:35] <itn> it doesn't list cost, but I know I spent hundreds more to get it.. just says SATA/SAS controller
[07:35] <twb> OK.
[07:36] <itn> and at boot I can go into raid manager.. using integrated mirroring raid1
[07:37] <itn> well hey, I don't want to take up your time.. thanks for helping me out though, appreciate it!
[07:38] <itn> by the way, this installer does stink.. hitting enter at boot: brought me right back into it..
[07:38] <itn> I'm out, have a good one!
[08:44] <harrisony> would this be the best place to ask a ubuntu server question (about setting iup a mail server)
[08:45] <hads> It would seem to be.
[08:46] <harrisony> ok ive been following this guide http://flurdy.com/docs/postfix and ive followed all the steps but i cant seem to login through imap (with squirrelmail or telnet localhost imap), what logs should i be looking at first
[08:50] <_ruben> /var/log/mail.log should be a decent start for mail related log messages :)
[08:51] <harrisony> blank file, woo
[08:52] <_ruben> jikes .. mine are filled with messages
[08:54] <harrisony> i think i might of accedently deleted the logs for mail in my anger late late last night and then i recrated them with touch, yeah that was at 3 am :)
[08:54] <_ruben> probably created them with faulty permissions
[08:54] <_ruben> syslog.adm are proper user.group
[08:55] <_ruben> 640 for chmod
[08:55] <harrisony> i think i created them with root :P
[08:55] <hads> Yes, don't do that :)
[09:05] <harrisony> so i should first run - sudo chown syslog.adm:syslog.adm /var/log/mail*
[09:09] <harrisony> oh wait, my bad syslog:adm
[09:17] <_ruben> correct, and a sudo chmod 640 /var/log/mail*
[09:39] <RockHound> hi everyone ... is there a away to skip the creation of the initial user on servers?
[09:39] <RockHound> during installation I mean
[09:40] <_ruben> why would you want to do that? and using expert mode, i think you can
[09:41] <RockHound> _ruben: because I have all my users in ldap and creating a user sysadmin and then later changing his unixid to something below 1000 is always a hassle ...
[09:41] <RockHound> will try with expert mode ... thx
[09:54] <harrisony> hmmm, i changed the owner and perms of the files and still blank
[09:55] <harrisony> (did some stopping and starting of courier and postfix)
[10:09] <AnRkey> how can i get dovecot to allow outlook express clients to create folders in the inbox of an IMAP account?
[10:13] <_ruben> harrisony: restart sysklogd as well
[12:10] <Metatron> hey, i just got a 8.04 server install, did a sudo aptitude installx-window-system-core, but X wont start, what am i missing?
[12:11] <_ruben> x on server .. yuck
[12:12] <Metatron> lol yeah besides that, it should work right?
[12:12] <_ruben> (and i wouldnt know the answer, never bothered to try it)
[12:12] <Metatron> id did complain alot
[12:12] <Metatron> it that is
[12:13] <_ruben> installing some base x libs and use remote x is as close as x will come my servers
[12:13] <Metatron> all right, maybe ill rethink strategy
[12:15] <Metatron> what i wanted was a base line system without all the stuff, to add my own lightweight wm and fm to, a doc on ubuntu help site suggested starting wiht server install, perhaps it meant a diffrent type of server
[12:17] <_ruben> well .. installing ubuntu server sure is an easy way of installing a pretty minimal base system, which could be used as a base for a desktop as well
[12:25] <Deeps> Metatron: google for ubuntu mini iso, that'll do you a minimal install
[12:25] <Deeps> Metatron: netinstall too mind
[12:26] <Deeps> Metatron: or look for the jeos iso and try that, thats also quite small
[12:26] <Metatron> this one is not the best to start from?  ubuntu-8.04-server-i386.iso
[12:26] <Metatron> juice seemed too minimal
[12:27] <Deeps> how so?
[12:27] <Deeps> it's a base linux system with little extra crud added on top that you dont want or need, and anything that you do want you can apt-get as usual
[12:27] <Metatron> just wondering why installing x-windows-system-core went so badly
[12:27] <_ruben> jeos might not have enough drivers to actually work on real hardware
[12:28] <Deeps> so replace the kernel
[12:28] <Deeps> apt-get install linux-image-686, voila
[12:29] <Deeps> anyway, i cant help you with matters relating to X, #ubuntu probably has more people with more X experience
[12:29] <Metatron> ok
[12:31] <Deeps> at a guess, you probably want to install xorg
[12:32] <Deeps> which'll intall all required dependancies for running x
[12:33] <Deeps> !show xorg
[12:33] <Deeps> !info xorg
[12:33] <Metatron> i tried x-window-system-core, that used to do it back when i tried this with version 6.something
[12:35] <Metatron> im thinking this 8.04 is diffrent beast
[12:36] <Metatron> x is maybe perm disabled
[12:36] <Metatron> semi perm anywah
[12:36] <Metatron> from an about page ---By design, Ubuntu Server Edition does not include an X server
[12:37] <Metatron> maybe i need to rethink quite a bit
[12:37] <Deeps> indeed, it doesn't install any packages relating to X, never has
[12:37] <Metatron> i was able to get x on there with old version...hmm  anway thanks ill go web spelunking awhile
[12:38] <Deeps> ubuntu desktop, ubuntu server, kubuntu, they're all based on the same ubuntu base, the installer simply pick a different task at install time
[12:38] <Deeps> one task generally doesn't disable another task from functioning
[12:38] <Deeps> have you tried installing xorg instead?
[12:40] <Metatron> not specificaly, about 40 hits with x.org in name, thought the x-window core would grab dependecny, looking now at what its called in reporsitory
[12:40] <Metatron> have to physicaly move to other machine, im back and forth
[12:41] <Deeps> !info xorg | Metatron
[12:42] <Deeps> oh, and
[12:43] <Deeps> !info openssh-server | Metatron
[12:43] <Deeps> easier than moving
[12:43] <Metatron> x-window-system-core already put it in
[12:44] <Deeps> "apt-get install xorg"
[12:44] <Deeps> nm
[12:44] <Deeps> good luck!
[14:18] <sparkyy> hello everyone
[14:19] <The_Kernel> hello
[14:20] <sparkyy> I have a question if someone can help me.  Its not Ubuntu specific but I figured someone might know
[14:21] <The_Kernel> well, shoot
[14:21] <RockHound> beat me to it
[14:22] <sparkyy> I am looking for some stats on DNS servers.  Does anyone know of stats on who uses what.  I.e. isc Bind marketshare etc.  Like what Netcraft does for webservers
[14:22] <sparkyy> I think its safe to assume FOSS is up to around 40-50% of all of it but I can't find any mildly scientific studies that point to that
[14:23] <RockHound> sparkyy: can't help with that, sorry ... but let me know if you find something ;)
[14:24] <sparkyy> RockHound, I will.  I am quite good at this Internet thing. LOL but haven't found anything yet
[14:24] <sparkyy> =)
[14:25] <spiekey> hi
[14:25] <sparkyy> hey
[14:26] <spiekey> how could i fix this error? could not create pid file /var/run/ez-ipupdate/foo.pid (Bad file descriptor), exiting
[14:27] <sparkyy> RockHound, I did!  http://www.isc.org/ops/ds/reports/2008-01/dist-servsoft.php
[14:28] <RockHound> spiekey: check if the directory /var/run/ez-ipupdate is available
[14:28] <sparkyy> how the F#$% is MS a top DNS server!?  Wth!?
[14:28] <sparkyy> lol
[14:28] <RockHound> hehe
[14:28] <RockHound> sparkyy: thx
[14:28] <sparkyy> yw
[14:28] <sparkyy> Ok, gotta keep writing. Later yall
[14:35] <RockHound> I would like to keep a file on two systems in sync (dhcpd config with failover) ... cfengine is just a bit over the top, I guess ... is there a "smaller" solution to this task?
[14:36] <_ruben> rsync
[14:36] <zul> rsync
[14:36] <_ruben> we (the company i work) at are using a custom made cvs based script .. all configs are stored in a cvs tree, and each server checks out its own portion of files, and symlinks them in place
[14:37] <RockHound> _ruben: this does not happen automagically though ... of course I can run rsync, but I would like it to copy the changes and restart the dhcpd process once I make a chance to the file ... which if I think about it, is a bad move
[14:37] <_ruben> you dont want too much automation indeed
[14:37] <_ruben> we sync with cvs every 10mins .. but reload dns/fw/mail services by hand
[14:39] <lamont> sparkyy: if you deliver a nameserver as part of every (M$) desktop, then your numbers go up... of course, if you have a vulnerability in said nameserver...... :-(
[14:40] <sparkyy> lamont, they are really good at vulnerabilities and have a proven track record of success with .....suking
[14:41] <Tophat> can someone please assist me in setting ubuntu up as a NAS-server, in a windows 2003 server environment?  im wanting to backup my server with users documents on them and other important fun stuff that i can't afford to loose.
[14:41] <sparkyy> but so does ISC.
[14:42]  * Surfer48 Visit http://www.FakeMagazineCover.com (upload pic make mag) - http://www.SillyWebcam.com (play with webcam online) - http://www.Is-A-Jerk.com (insulter/anon email) - http://www.ComedySearchEngine.com (fun) - http://www.BodySwitcher.com (put your face on funny body) - http://www.MedChecker.com (health) - http://www.Canuckster.com (Canada eh) - http://www.Nerdful.com (geeks)
[14:43] <RockHound> spam in IRC? thats my first
[14:43] <Tophat> ....what has the world come too?
[14:43] <Tophat> he just spammed the motd.
[14:43] <sparkyy> wow!
[14:43] <Tophat> wow.
[14:43] <RockHound> jup
[14:43] <sparkyy> I want to click on all of those juicy links and get some FREE crap I didn't want anyhow
[14:43] <sparkyy> lol
[14:44] <sparkyy> Tophat, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SettingUpSamba
[14:44] <sparkyy> Tophat, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Swat
[14:45] <soren> Heh..
[14:45] <Tophat> hahah good shit soren
[14:45] <Tophat> thanks sparkyy
[14:45] <sparkyy> np
[15:12] <majikins> hello - I'm trying to find a how-to on openafs server with kerberos
[15:12] <majikins> can anyone point me in the right direction pls?
[15:15] <zul> google.com perhaps?
[15:15] <majikins> tried that
[15:15] <majikins> maybe I'm searching wrong
[15:16] <majikins> lots of articals on universities and stuff using this but there does not seem to be any how-to's
[15:16] <majikins> and openafs.org is not reachable
[15:19] <majikins> has anyone implemented openafs on Heron?
[15:42] <majikins> hi - has anyone implemented openafs with kerberos?
[16:19] <mccune> Hi, should /etc/hostname contain my fully qualified domain name, or just the host part of the fqdn?  hostname -f doesn't return the fqdn, like I expect it to and I'm trying to sort out why.
[17:13] <Ap4ch3> lol.. noc dude rebooted server (ubuntu, exim mx) without speaking to anyone, now all hell has broken loose... thing probably only had pr0n spam on it anyway! :D
[17:36] <infinity> mccune: If you have some (any) way to append a domain name to your hostname, /etc/hostname should only contain the host part.
[17:36] <infinity> mccune: For example:
[17:36] <infinity> adconrad@loki:~$ head -n 1 /etc/resolv.conf
[17:36] <infinity> domain 0c3.net
[17:36] <infinity> adconrad@loki:~$ cat /etc/hostname
[17:36] <infinity> loki
[17:36] <infinity> adconrad@loki:~$ hostname -f
[17:36] <infinity> loki.0c3.net
[17:37] <infinity> mccune: If you don't have domain/search directives, an FQDN in /etc/hosts will do the trick too.
[17:42] <fbond> Hi, when I install a kernel upgrade on my server via aptitude, update-grub doesn't get run automatically anymore.  I recently upgraded to hardy.  Any ideas?
[17:42] <fbond> I see that update-grub is now run by a "trigger", rather than via the postinst script.
[17:43] <fbond> Ought I be doing something special to kick the trigger?
[18:14] <mccune> infinity: Hrm.  I have the following.  echo ftp > /etc/hostname, "domain asp.ntst.com" in resolv.conf and 127.0.1.1       ftp ftp.asp.ntst.com in hosts.  I ran sudo /etc/init.d/hostname.sh and "hostname -f" still returns ftp, not ftp.asp.ntst.com
[18:18] <mccune> infinity: Ah, I swapped positions in /etc/hosts, and hostname -f now runs as expected.  So "127.0.1.1       ftp.asp.ntst.com ftp" in /etc/hosts does the trick for me.
[18:23] <infinity> mccune: Yeah, FQDN always comes first in hosts.
[18:24] <mccune> infinity: I was following the convention for localhost localhost.localdomain, which threw me off.
[18:24] <infinity> fbond:
[18:24] <infinity> adconrad@cthulhu:~$ tail -n 2 /etc/kernel-img.conf
[18:24] <infinity> postinst_hook = update-grub
[18:24] <infinity> postrm_hook   = update-grub
[18:24] <infinity> mccune: That's just as incorrect.  If you actually want localhost.localdomain to resolve to anything useful, those need to be swapped too.
[18:25] <fbond> infinity: I have no kernel-img.conf.  I can create it, of course, but I'm wondering if the current behavior that I'm seeing is intended?
[18:28] <infinity> fbond: It should have been created by the linux-image-$ver-foo postinst, I believe.
[18:29] <fbond> infinity: I don't have it on my workstation, either...
[18:29] <osmosis> are there docs for setting up software raid 5 on ubuntu ?
[18:33] <infinity> fbond: Hrm, it might be the installer that creates the initial kernel-img.conf, actually.
[18:33] <infinity> fbond: Not positive on that, but it looks like the bit in the kernel postinst that would do it will always be a no-op.
[18:35] <infinity> fbond: It's definitely the installer that writes the grub bits anyway, since the kernel postinst doesn't have that logic.
[18:35] <infinity> fbond: So, the million dollar question is "did you install without the aid of an installer?"
[18:35] <infinity> fbond: (For instance, my server was debootstrapped by hand, and I had to create kernel-img.conf myself(
[18:37] <fbond> infinity: Well, I don't remember for my server, I may have done some things manually through an upgrade.  However, my workstation was a different story (I think).  I could be misremembering any of this.  I can't say I'm not very intrusive when it comes to APT.
[18:37] <fbond> Both of my machines got to hardy via upgrades, though.  Is it possible that the upgrade doesn't create kernel-img.conf like it should?
[18:38] <infinity> fbond: We've been creating kernel-img.conf in our installers (d-i or ubiquity) since the dawn of time, I believe.
[18:38] <infinity> The only way to not have one would be to either (A) install without an installer, or (B) delete it after installation.
[18:38] <infinity> I can't be 100% sure on that, but I'm fairly certain.
[18:38] <fbond> Hm.  Neither of those sounds right.
[18:39] <infinity> I supopse a plausible 3rd option is "install eons ago, say, a woody or earlier system, then upgrade for years, through Debian and Ubuntu releases until today".
[18:40] <fbond> Nope, definitely not that old.
[18:40] <infinity> Not sure what else to say...
[18:40] <fbond> Indeed.  I've no idea.  And I'm missing it on two machines.
[18:40] <infinity> We've been using grub as the default bootloader in Ubuntu since we first released, and if kernel-img.conf isn't there, update-grub would never have worked.
[18:41] <fbond> infinity: Okay, I believe it.  It must be my fault, somehow.
[18:41] <fbond> Just not sure how.
[18:41] <fbond> Oh, I do use the netinstall installer...
[18:41] <fbond> In fact both of these machines were installed this way.
[18:41] <infinity> I'm not certain it's your fault, but I'm not entirely sure how to track down how it could be our fault either, unless you (A) knew you had the file at some point and (B) could pinpoint when it went away.
[18:41] <infinity> Ahh.
[18:42] <fbond> But I'm pretty sure that update-grub used to run at the right times on both of these machines.
[18:42] <infinity> Netinstall might not run grub-installer.  It's retty lightweight.  Almost as lightweight as just debootstrapping to a chroot.
[18:42] <fbond> I would've noticed, otherwise.
[18:42] <infinity> Again, though, can't be positive on any of this.  I'm not an installer expert, per se.
[18:42] <fbond> Hm.  Interesting.
[18:42] <fbond> I'm convinced that I never had kernel-img.conf.
[18:42] <infinity> You may have never noticed or cared if your menu.lst had an entry at one point for vmlinuz.
[18:42] <fbond> But I'm also convinced that update-grub used to run on these machines, despite this missing config file.
[18:43] <infinity> Since that would always "Just Work", without ever running update-grub.
[18:43] <fbond> Hmm.
[18:43] <infinity>  But if the symlinks went away, or menu.lst lost the symlink entries, you need update-grub to catch new kernel versions.
[18:43] <infinity> (And I believe recent versions of update-grub now skip symlinks to avoid duplicate entries)
[18:43] <infinity> And THAT may be your bug.
[18:44] <fbond> Okay.
[18:44] <infinity> Yo umay have never had the post-hook in kernel-img.conf, but an upgraded grub (which runs update-grub in its own postinst) might have blatted out the symlink entries, leaving you with only versioned boot choices.  And then a new kernel wouldn't get caught, cause nothing's running update-grub on new kernel installs.
[18:44] <infinity> Does *that* sound plausible? :)
[18:45] <infinity> If so, that might be a real upgrade bug.
[18:45] <infinity> If older shipped versions used to assume the symlink entry would "just work".
[18:45] <fbond> Is it possible that the default values for /etc/kernel-img.conf (the values that I'd get if I didn't have such a config file) would be update-grub for posthook, prehook, and that those defaults changed with hardy?
[18:46] <infinity> We might need some clever upgrade logic in... Some random package (perhaps grub itself) to check if menu.lst has a symlink entry, and if so, write out a kernel-img.conf before running update-grub and killing the symlink choice.
[18:46] <infinity> No, we've never run update-grub from the kernel postinst without having a kernel-img.conf
[18:47] <infinity> That would blow up horribly on systems without grub (say, all the LILO installations out there, especially back when LILO was the only way to boot certain RAID setups)
[18:47] <stefg> I have a hardy samba server running ebox as webmin replacement. The funny thing is: WinXP clients connect just fine, but /my/ Desktop (which is hardy as well) can't even browse the shares on the server, let alone access them :( so my desktop-machine can browse other peoples shares on their XP boxes but not he hardy server. Any clue givers what'S going on ?
[18:47] <infinity> Anyhow, I'm supposed to be in bed, sick, not prattling on on IRC..
[18:48]  * stefg suspects some authentication problems
[19:01] <zul> infinity: any reason why we dont ship a pear.conf?
[19:22] <Assid> heya
[19:23] <Assid> is it me or is ubuntuforums down?
[19:25] <stickystyle> Assid: just you.
[19:25] <Assid> its ridiculously slow
[19:26] <stickystyle> Perhaps do a traceroute, as its zipping along just fine for me.
[19:26] <Assid> yeha just started working
[19:26] <Assid> 2 other people saying it was slow at that time
[19:26] <Assid> must be crazy loads
[19:26]  * stickystyle shurg
[19:28] <Assid> hrmm
[19:28] <Assid> you guys ever installed openvz on a ubuntu host ?
[19:36] <uvirtbot`> New bug: #226512 in php5 (main) "php-pear's default system-configuration-file directive is non-existent" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/226512
[19:38] <zul> mathiaz: ping what do you think about samba 4 in universe?
[19:44] <mathiaz> Assid: some people are doing it - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenVZ
[19:45] <mathiaz> zul: well - samba 4 is still alpha code
[19:45] <mathiaz> zul: it's not even in debian
[19:45] <mathiaz> zul: so as of now, I don't see the point of uploading it to universe
[19:46] <zul> mathiaz: I know the debian guys are packaging it right now so when they are happy with it we could think about it later
[19:46] <Assid> cool
[19:46] <Assid> im thinking of running a ubuntu server next
[19:46] <Assid> with this
[19:47] <mathiaz> zul: right - there is a samba4 branch in debian svn repository
[19:47] <mathiaz> zul: I don't know when the package will be uploaded
[19:47] <mathiaz> zul: it will probably uploaded to experimental
[19:47] <zul> mathiaz: true
[19:54] <Koon> zul: if you follow Dan Shearer thoughts, samba v3+backports will be ready before v4 does (for purposes of AD functionality)
[19:56] <zul> then maybe 3.2 then
[20:08] <mathiaz> dendrobates-: could you modify this blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kerberize-main-clients ?
[20:08] <mathiaz> dendrobates-: and make me the drafter so that I can modify it
[20:09] <Tophat> what is the latest git resp?
[20:12]  * Tophat is embarassed for asking the wrong room :(
[20:12] <zul> resp?
[20:13] <Tophat> sorry , im still in the days of cvs ><
[20:13] <zul> kernel.ubuntu.com/git
[20:14] <Tophat> thanks mate
[20:23] <dendrobates-> mathiaz: done
[20:26] <mathiaz> dendrobates-: hum - it was actually https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kerberize-main-servers..
[20:34] <osmosis> are there docs for setting up software raid 5 on ubuntu ?
[20:34] <zul> dendrobates-: yay picutres :)
[20:36] <emgent> heya people
[20:36] <Assid> why are some sites just stupidly slow today
[20:53] <majikins> hello I'm trying to find instructions for installing openafs with kerberos on heron
[20:53] <majikins> has anyone done this?
[21:05] <majikins> has anyone setup openafs with kerberos?
[21:11] <Nicke> majikins: You mean an afs server? (versus just setting up openafs-client?)
[21:12] <bdmurray> kirkland: ping
[21:12] <kirkland> bdmurray: yo
[21:12] <bdmurray> Did you get your gear back?
[21:12] <majikins> Nicke: yes
[21:12] <kirkland> bdmurray: nope :-/
[21:13] <Nicke> majikins: okey, then I don't know :/
[21:13] <bdmurray> gah, that sucks
[21:13] <bdmurray> kirkland: I'm looking at the doc search and noticed there irclogs aren't listed as being searchable but are
[21:13] <kirkland> bdmurray: yeah, i'm bummed about losing the pictures
[21:14] <kirkland> bdmurray: interesting, what's the url for the irc logs?
[21:14] <bdmurray> oh, maybe they aren't weighted?
[21:14] <bdmurray> irclogs.ubuntu.com
[21:14] <majikins> bugger - lots of recommendations on the net but no straightforward howto
[21:15] <kirkland> bdmurray: my search actually searches everything in the world that google knows about, but gives preference to about 20 or so ubuntu-related sites
[21:15] <bdmurray> right, but no preference is given to irclogs.ubuntu.com ?
[21:16] <kirkland> bdmurray: i'll add it ;-)
[21:16] <bdmurray> cool, thanks
[21:20]  * faulkes- looks at the clock
[21:20] <faulkes-> meeting today?
[21:21] <Koon> faulkes-: in 40 min.
[21:22] <faulkes-> just trying to see how long I can outlast the urge to pour myself a martini
[21:22] <Koon> I could use a Martini too :)
[21:29] <m13> hello
[21:30] <m13> i tried using this tutorial for internet sharing http://raldztech.blogspot.com/2005/12/how-to-share-internet-connection-in.html and i lost conection to internet completly. any tips how to fix this ?
[21:30] <AlexC_> hey all
[21:37] <faulkes-> heya
[21:57] <nealmcb> server team meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 2 minutes....
[21:58] <m13> nealmcb: can publics join ?
[22:00] <zul> m13: its open to the public yes..
[22:29] <ScottK2> Good day all.
[22:30] <emgent> hi ScottK2 :)
[22:31] <owh> FYI, meeting is currently in #ubuntu-meeting.
[22:31] <ScottK2> owh: Thanks.
[22:40] <mathiaz> kees: could you stop by #ubuntu-meeting ?
[22:40] <mathiaz> kees: we're talking about limesurvey and audit
[22:41] <kees> mathiaz: sure, one moment
[23:07] <mathiaz> owh: what is your timezone ?
[23:08] <owh> UTC +8
[23:08] <mathiaz> owh: ok - thanks
[23:08] <sommer> ScottK2: any opinion on Bug #234927 ?
[23:08] <uvirtbot`> Launchpad bug 234927 in php5 "delay php script execution on cli" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/234927
[23:09] <owh> zul: So, what was with the DCS elation?
[23:10] <mathiaz> kees: what's the website you use to figure out meeting times ?
[23:10] <nijaba> mathiaz: timeanddate.com
[23:11] <owh> Meeting Planner <http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html>
[23:12] <owh> Better still: The Advanced Meeting Planner <http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/advmeeting.html>
[23:37] <mathiaz> dendrobates-: could you set me as the drafter for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kerberize-main-servers ?
[23:38] <m1r> ﻿what is with 8139 realtek complaining to use 8139too driver on server boot ? i have 2 of those cards in server