[03:01] Riddell and seele: ya, the date on the wiki I made up for the meeting...next Wednesday at 22:00 UTC works for me === santiago-ve is now known as Guest71206 === santiago-php is now known as santiago-ve [03:50] wwo i haven't looked at anything kde or kubntu releated all week :( [04:11] * Hobbsee kicks tasque, and nixternal [04:11] can i kick nixternal as well? [04:11] what for btw [04:12] it's misbehaving [04:12] ah bummer [04:14] Hobbsee: what is it doing? [04:14] remember, you are using prealpha software too :) [04:14] nixternal: saying "reloading tasks" forever. [04:14] !info tasque [04:14] Package tasque does not exist in hardy [04:14] I would do a new SVN snapshot, but Novell said no [04:14] what is tasque? [04:14] awww [04:15] (why does it matter waht they say?) [04:15] actually, when I get some time, I will try a new svn snapshot of it [04:15] screw them [04:15] it is free software for christs sake [04:15] they said they didn't want Ubuntu newbs crying because it is broken [04:16] or maybe that was jcastro :p [04:16] tis broken anyway, so... [04:17] so quit cryin' n00b :P [04:17] * nixternal runs and hides really freakin' fast [04:17] * jjesse waits for pointy stick of doom [04:17] * Hobbsee skewers nixternal with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!™, and withdraws her +1 [04:17] shoot, I am waiting for more [04:17] * nixternal hugs Hobbsee :) [04:17] * Hobbsee puts a -1 instead. [04:17] omg, you have a damn small TM next to the DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!! [04:18] you have absolutely gone mad :) [04:18] * Hobbsee adds a comment: "people from microsoft with a love of vista iwll only compromise the ubuntu archives, he should be stripped of all upload powers" [04:18] haha [04:18] gone mad? i was mad long ago... [04:18] I need to work on my Debian NM stuff one of these days [04:25] hrmm i should probablly go to bed [04:25] but i don't want to [04:27] did you see the helo crash today? [04:27] nope, in columbus ohio [04:27] so i missed it [04:27] pretty crazy they had to clsoe the emergency room [04:27] plus the 7-9 floors [04:27] which is pediatrics [04:27] ya, I was at the Billy Goat Tavern when they showed it [04:27] labor and deliver was redirected as well [04:28] so some ladies were in labor in the grand rapids community college gym [04:28] :) [04:28] nice [04:28] installation of windows xp professinal will finish in 19 minutes :) [04:31] ok heading to bed... that download will suck the rest of this hotel's bandwidth the rest of the night [04:38] jjesse: traitor. [04:38] jjesse: you're taking after that other one. [05:16] who is our Kubuntu Community Manager? Are you still doing that Hobbsee, or are you totally on the dark side now? :) [05:17] nixternal: er, not me. i'm not sure we have one. [05:17] did you used to be it at one point? [05:18] yeah [05:18] thought so === santiago-ve is now known as Guest76772 === santiago-php is now known as santiago-ve [06:25] kdebase-runtime 4.0.80 uploading [06:26] 51mb [06:26] oh wow [06:29] apachelogger: you and czessi aren't doing hardy kde4.1 beta 1 packages are you? [06:29] if so, I will be done with them tomorrow [07:02] I love how debuild doesn't catch a missing , nor does pbuilder, but as soon as you upload it dies [07:22] pbuilder doesnt? [07:24] no it didn't...it built out just fine === pgquiles__ is now known as pgquiles [10:53] hi cartman! [10:54] lo Riddell [10:54] * cartman goes to update his erc config to autojoin [11:05] cartman: how are your .deb making skills coming along? [11:07] Riddell: nothing so far, I am at work coding Ada, waiting for KDE 4.1 ;) [11:08] my Ada skills are improving though! :) [11:08] cartman: are you using intrepid? [11:09] yup [11:09] bleeding edge it is [11:09] but this is Ubuntu + KDE4 packs [11:09] pulls lots of gnome stuff with dist-upgrade :( [11:14] Riddell: is there a way to completely remove gnome stuff? Hopefully with one command? :-) [11:14] or shall I install KUbuntu 8.04 from scratch [11:15] I imagine apt-get remove libgtk2.0-0 would do it [11:15] would remove Firefox too, humpf [11:15] can't have things both ways [11:15] true [11:16] or maybe run tasksel and uncheck ubunutu-desktop and check kubuntu-desktop [11:16] (or kubuntu-kde4-desktop?) [11:16] nareshov: let me try that === blizzzekski is now known as blizzzek [11:58] package review needed! http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/indi/ [12:16] Riddell: your diff.gz contains the top level makefile [12:16] indi-0.5/src/cfitsio/Makefile [12:16] hi there [12:17] hey-ho Tonio_ [12:25] stdin: anything else? [12:27] testing install/remove now [12:28] So is kdebase-workspace-data gone in 4.1 now? [12:28] no [12:28] Oh, then I guess a few files moved around [12:30] Riddell: everything else looks good to me :) [12:31] Riddell: I couldn't see you at the hotel to say you good bye :/ [12:31] Riddell: good time going back ? [12:32] Tonio_: yes, no problems, even found a nice beach http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/2522717184/ [12:32] stdin: thanks [12:33] Riddell: hehe cool :) === jtechdna is now known as JontheEchidna === pgquiles__ is now known as pgquiles [13:52] nixternal: no, just daily builds :P [13:52] apachelogger, have you finished the 4.1 packages? [13:53] no, Xand3rs fault! [13:53] mmmmgh, time to move to a new home, see you in the other side -> [13:53] apachelogger, you fool, didn't you do it self? [13:53] :P [13:54] bye Tm_T [13:56] emonkey: meh === evalles_ is now known as effie_jayx [14:10] ok installing KUbuntu from scratch was way easier :) [14:16] Riddell: time to kick kdebase-runtime :-) [14:17] cartman: you tried grabbing it from within ubuntu? [14:17] nosrednaekim: what do you mean? [14:18] you said "installing kubuntu from scratch" [14:18] I did install Ubuntu first [14:18] then get KDE4 packages [14:18] but it left lotsa gnome programs around [14:18] cartman: just did so [14:18] Riddell: you rock! === santiago_ is now known as santiago-ve [16:17] Does kde upgrade from hardy->intrepid yet? Last time I checked the upgrade using aptitude kdelibs was held back by kdelibs4c2a (which was conflicting with kdebase-kio-plugins). [16:19] THat is kde3... [16:19] it's in heavy flux [16:19] kde 4 is being uploaded, but I can't upload various parts of it yet [16:20] Riddell: Yes, I notice:-) I am waiting for a good moment to jump into the update-mess;-) [16:20] I doubt now is a good time, you'll end up with kde4libs but no apps [16:21] So far none of the debs I really do care about are updated, so I am in a hurry. [16:21] hunger: on the plus side, decibel is one of the packages that has successfully passed main review :) [16:21] Riddell: Well, I don't mind writing bugreports;-) [16:21] Thanks for the effort! [16:22] Riddell: I am subscribed to all decibel related issues, so I am up to date. [16:22] Which version of telepathy will be supported in intrepid? [16:23] Just so that I know what I need to update decibel to;-) [16:23] seems to be 0.3.3 [16:23] currently [16:23] Riddell: The spec is at version 0.17.6 at this time... [16:24] Riddell: They do not increment the so version for binary compatible changes like changing parameters and stuff like that. [16:24] That is fine for the GLib void* magic the telepathy guys do, but does not port to C++. [16:25] So the spec version number would help me a lot, considering that there is no way to find out which telepathy CMs are compatible with decibel... [16:26] * hunger thinks that he will have to fork the telepathy spec to get it into a state acceptable for KDE usage. [16:26] you'd need to ask on #ubuntu-desktop [16:26] that's where the telepathy team are supposed to be [16:26] Riddell: Thanks. [16:29] Riddell: is there a spec's page yet for intrepid like there was for hardy? [16:29] davmor2: congrats on your membership :) [16:29] nosrednaekim: It happened a while ago but thanks :) [16:29] Riddell: What troubles me is that the answer to the telepathy-spec question will probably be "whichever happens to be used by the CMs". [16:30] davmor2: our one is https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuUDSPragueSpecs, no idea about non-Kubuntu ones though [16:30] hunger: CMs? [16:30] Riddell: connection managers: The stuff in the telepathy-* debs. [16:30] nixternal: meeting on fridge? [16:31] davmor2: ah... I took your blog post to mean you just got approved :) === Riddell changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Welcome to the Kubuntu developers channel | https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuUDSPragueSpecs | Back to merging! | Meeting Wednesday 4th 22:00UTC [16:31] hello [16:32] no I just set my planet feed so I can spam planet ubuntu ;) [16:32] :) [16:32] i'm willing to help out with 4.1, but i'm no MOTU atm, need a mentor as well [16:32] with humongous PNG heads XD [16:32] :D [16:33] davmor2: it freaked ^_^ [16:33] *freaked my mom out [16:34] nosrednaekim: I used memaker before for a quick avatar but the app must of resized the png itself so I just assumed it created an avatar sized png which I now know it doesn't :) [17:21] Riddell: adding the meeting now [17:22] we said next Wednesday at 22:00 right? [17:22] yep [17:26] added [17:43] seele: ping [17:50] Artemis_Fowl: pong [17:53] Riddell: I had a quick look at your openbabel MIR, just one correction, openbabel does install some binaries [18:03] seele: as you know, default is not a per entry command; it is used like this: default #number_of_entry. What should be the expected behaviour when deleting the default entry? should default be deleted or should the next entry be the default (since the previous default entry got deleted)? [18:08] Artemis_Fowl: if default is not specified then it is the first item, correct? [18:08] seele: yes [18:08] then if the default is deleted, i think we should reset it to be the first entry [18:09] this makes sense because we are using radio buttons that cannot be deselected [18:09] delete it or set it to 0 (aka the first entry)? [18:09] visually it makes n difference [18:09] no* [18:09] but internally it does [18:09] might as well just set it to 0 [18:10] ok [18:10] it is the same thing, but at least the UI matches the config file more literally [18:10] what about moving entries? should defauult follow the entries? [18:10] so if they go in and edit it by hand, it will make sense. not everyone knows how every little grub option works [18:10] yes, if the entry exists and it is default, if you move it down or up, it should remain default [18:11] the only conditions the default changes are when 1) the user selectes a different default or 2) the default entry is deleted and default is reset to 0 [18:11] ok [18:12] so i guess a better way of putting it is that default is tied to the item and not the position [18:12] last thing for today: you know about the automagic thing, right? [18:12] mmm.. i guess not, i'm not sure what you mean [18:13] in the debian-based distros like kubuntu, some entries (the distro specific entries) are within the automagic kernel list [18:13] so when the kernel updates [18:13] the script update-grub [18:14] updates the kernels to reflect the newly installed kernel [18:14] ok [18:14] moving or deleting entries that are within a AUTOMAGIC kernel list may affect it. [18:14] affect it as in it wont be able to update or it will break? [18:15] eg if you move the last protected entry down then the entry that was previously down will be considered to be automagic protected. which is not right [18:15] oh my [18:15] hmm [18:15] how should the user be informed about this? [18:16] i guess my question would be if you would want to edit the automagic entries then [18:16] if we should let users move them? [18:18] i suppose moving them internally should be allowed (eg the first protected entry should be allows to become second). but if the move would "break" the list then prompt the user to pick an action [18:18] allowed* [18:18] actions that pop into my mind are: [18:19] is it just position that is important or everything? [18:19] if we protect position, can users still safely edit other options (at least until they are rewritten with update-grub?) [18:19] position [18:20] what happens now if you edit grub config by hand and move things around? [18:20] entries go like packets. their attributes always follow them [18:20] it depends on how much you would like to destroy your system :) what exactly do you mean? [18:21] hmm.. i think you answered my question "bad things happen" [18:22] so basically no one reorders entries in grub because it will break? [18:22] or do they remove the automagic flags? [18:23] or do they rewrite their grub config when they do an update? [18:24] I would say that nobody reorders automagic protected entries. not that it will break, however [18:24] actually when I say protected I mean that these entries [18:25] are between some special comments of the type: "###AUTOMAGIC LIST" [18:25] ###END OF AUTOMAGIC LIST [18:25] like this [18:25] so is it reasonable to prevent reordering of automagic entries or is it something that people will want to do? [18:25] what the app does is save the number of entries that are between these comments [18:27] I don't think many people would like to mess with such stuff. but what if they would like? I don't think preventing them from doing so would be very nice [18:28] right [18:28] the problem is, we need to prevent users from doing something destructive [18:28] look [18:29] maybe i dont understand the option enough to know what could be done safely and how not to break anything [18:30] I could prevent something like this internally. for example if someone moves the last protected entry down, I could make the aytomagic list one slot smaller so that the entry that took the place of the previously protected entry is no longer protected [18:30] hmm [18:30] that's hard to conceive [18:30] when update-grub runs again will that be OK? [18:31] yes. but since the entry is no longer protected, it will receive no updates [18:31] or will it add another entry to make up for the one moved out of automagic? [18:31] dunno exactly [18:31] hmm.. so the kernel could be removed but the entry stays in the list? [18:31] yes [18:32] yeah, that would be bad [18:32] very bad. but that's why a warning dialog when moving automagic stuff would be good [18:33] yes, but again, were only telling them something bad could happen when we should prevent it :-/ [18:33] so what's the conclusion? [18:33] * seele wonders if this was one of the things that prevented mhb from writing a grub config [18:33] mhb: ping [18:34] i really dont like the idea of allowing the user to do something potentially destructive.. such as keeping a kernel entry in a list when the kernel could not exist [18:34] but i dont have any better ideas either [18:35] ok [18:35] are other Linux and Windows installations included in automagic or only packaged kernels? [18:35] the latter only [18:36] and there can only be one set of automagif flags? you cant have ### begin/end automagic ### \n Some other OS \n ### begin/end more automagic###? [18:37] i am not 100% sure but I think that only one set can be available [18:38] so our options are 1) don't let users move automagic entries or 2) let users move automagic entries (warn them) but with potentially destructive results? [18:38] or is there a 3rd option? [18:38] Riddell: ping [18:39] as I see it these are the only 2 options [18:40] i'm leaning towards option 1 because i dont like the idea of letting uses make mistakes. we can always add a "feature" later if we figure out how to let them move items without causing errors [18:41] fine [18:41] now i guess, how to represent that in the UI? [18:42] are all the entries above the second level title automagic? [18:43] you know.. this really sucks because if you have a straight kubuntu box then you can't really reorder anything, can you? [18:43] or can you reorder within the automagic flags? [18:43] i can make it enable moving within automagic [18:43] but prevent the user when he is about to break something [18:44] prevent=disable the move button(s) that should not be used [18:44] right [18:44] or would it be better to use a message box? [18:44] with more details [18:45] i wonder if that will be confusing because youll have one list but the top items can only be moved within a certain direction and the bottom items the same [18:45] if they can't move an item down or up then they shouldnt be able to click the button [18:46] but i think we will need to have a message in the dialog explaining some of the rules some how.. this is getting confusing [18:46] we can't use two lists because the default option applied between the two lists [18:46] how come there is a circle dep with kdebase-workspace depending on Amarok? [18:46] but then you have move controls which only apply to half the list [18:46] ya, that might get answered in here :p [18:46] * nixternal heads to the correct channel for that question [18:46] hehe [18:50] * Artemis_Fowl has to go... [18:50] ok.. maybe we can talk about this more this weekend or next week [18:51] I'll see what I can do. i am pretty busy with my exams this month. [18:51] ok. good luck with your exams [18:57] kdebase-workspace building after a ton of tweaking, and I am sure I will have to tweak some more...if not, boy did I get lucky :) [19:07] Riddell: you were not joking the other day when you said there would be a lot of work with creating these 4.1 beta 1 packages [19:09] nixternal: any progress? [19:09] hi === bastian is now known as OculusAquilae [19:10] OculusAquilae: ya, completing kdebase-workspace now [19:10] cool [19:10] not even 50% complete I don't think [19:11] I was hoping to have everything done today, but I don't think that will happen...I should at least have the base KDE 4.1 Beta 1 complete though [19:11] job interview yesterday took up most of my day...that and walking around with the Ubuntu Chicago folks downtown Chicago hitting up pubs as we walked past them didn't help either :) [19:12] :) [19:13] I think I walked about a total of 5 miles yesterday....now my feet and hips are sore as all hell [19:13] understandable :) [19:14] need to get some decent walking shoes [19:14] nixternal: i know UIUC is out in corn land, but how far is it from chicago? [19:15] 3 hours [19:16] wow [19:16] and that is with a bit of speeding [19:16] that's really BFE [19:16] you think [19:16] manchicken lives down there [19:17] what's at UIUC besides a wonderful horticulture department? :) [19:17] I guess their computer labs are quite nice as well [19:17] yeah [19:18] unfortunately, UIUC breeds some whack jobs that end up trying to blow up buildings or do campus shootings [19:18] you looking at UIUC for finishing up your schooling? [19:19] mm.. i dont know about how seriously now that i know it is 3 hours from civilization [19:19] hahaha [19:19] one of the researchers there who does open source AND usability there contacted me [19:19] seele: check out UI@Chicago [19:20] they have some decent computer stuff, so does IIT...What about MIT? [19:20] and unfortunately UIUC has a 2 year residency requirement.. while most schools only have 2 semester requirement for graduate school [19:20] damn, 2 years? that is nuts [19:20] i dont know anyone at MIT and i think all the open source stuff is engineering and not cultural or desktop-oriented [19:21] UC@Irvine seems to be another lead, but I haven't contacted any researchers there yet [19:21] besides that, i dont have any other leads [19:21] U of Michigan has a UI program, I hear it's excellent. [19:21] do what my cousin did so she could go to U of Michigan....have a bill sent to a family member...that proves residency :) [19:21] jcastro: does UM have an open source lab too? [19:21] seele: yes they do [19:21] I am not sure [19:21] but jcastro would know way more about that [19:22] or not :) [19:22] jcastro: my problem is finding both HCI and OSS at the same place and someone to study under [19:22] they were here for some security event and were talking about their opensource labs [19:22] greg-g is a CS guy there, he would know (he's usually in -bugs) [19:22] or #ubuntu-us-mi :) [19:22] all of the interdisc HCI programs i know of dont have an interest in open source [19:22] the ones who do are computer engineering which i can't do since i'm not a software developer [19:22] seele: I told him to join here for a couple of minutes [19:22] hah, thanks [19:23] * greg-g waves [19:23] there he is [19:23] greg-g: say hello to seele! [19:23] * seele waves to greg-g [19:23] hello seele [19:23] she has some questions she would like to ask you...first, who is your father and what does he do [19:23] we were just discussing graduate school and i was wondering if U-Mich has an open source lab? [19:23] i know they do some HCI, but i think it is in the CS department [19:23] haha [19:24] HCI is actually in my school, the School of Information [19:24] separate from the EE/CS department [19:24] oh nice, an iSchool [19:24] GO BLUE!!! [19:24] and, open source lab, you know, I don't know of one [19:24] does anyone do open source there? [19:24] ah, bummer [19:24] jcastro: ya, I said go glue! [19:25] that's been my problem, i can't find anyone researching open source at the same place as HCI [19:25] seele: start it up for them then :) [19:25] well, as with much academia there is a good amount of it all over the place. Our course management software (where you turn in homework, get annoucncments etc, like blackboard/webct) [19:26] is open source (was distracted, I'm at a coffee shop) [19:26] and developed in house with various partners around the world [19:26] yeah, but using it and researching it are two different things [19:26] right right [19:27] nixternal: yikes.. UIUC is closer to indianapolis than chicago? [19:27] the iSchool also has an incentive centered design specialization [19:27] nixternal: that place scares me. it's like a suburban LA. SPRAAAAAWL [19:27] hmm.. [19:28] greg-g: thanks for the info [19:28] ICD == the study of getting people to do stuff. they look at things like wikipedia/OSS [19:28] you looking for a MS or PhD? [19:28] PhD, i already finished my master's [19:29] i applied locally to study health informatics and realised too late that i dont care enough to do that [19:29] i do enough health informatics in my day job [19:29] ahh, right on, well then, I would recommend the School of Information for that, there is a ton of room for finding/studying what you are particularly interested in, and if it is OSS, there are resources there to help [19:29] gotcha [19:30] seele: ya, Indy is a horrible place...I don't like it either [19:31] well, time to head out, if you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask, i'm in #ubuntu-us-mi and #ubuntu-bugs when I'm on. [19:31] seele: 2 hours from UIUC to Chicago [19:31] 136 miles [19:32] greg-g: thanks homeskillet :) [19:32] GO BLUE!!! [19:32] w00t! [19:32] * seele wonders if residency extends to the UI school system or a specific institution [19:32] isn't that tornado country? [19:33] maybe i should look in california, lol [19:33] haha [19:33] why not the east coast? [19:34] seele: this whole area is tornado country [19:34] we have been under tornado watch for the better part of the day so far [19:34] the first round of storms have already blown through, but it is hot and muggy now, so I know the severe weather will be back later [19:35] seele: haven't you watched the news? California gets tornados as well now :P [19:35] nixternal: but at least it's warm! [19:35] nixternal: not around here, just dust storms :( [19:35] seele: good point [19:35] LaserJock: that's because where you live, there is nothing but the bunny ranch, and for some reason God keeps going around it :P [19:36] * seele sighs.. i should have done this last summer [19:36] i guess i wasn't prepared to move from maryland yet tho [19:36] nixternal: there's more than that, there are several bunny ranches [19:36] ;-) [19:36] seele: I know that exact same feeling :) [19:37] LaserJock: hahaha [19:37] I can't believe how rich that guy is that owns the moonlight...that is ridiculous [19:37] one just got shut down the other day, can't remember why [19:37] roaches [19:37] haha [19:37] the owner wasn't paying taxes or some such [19:38] go figure [19:38] legalized pimps not paying their taxes [19:38] yeah, you can do anything you want here, as long as you pay the taxes [19:38] I can't believe people are that hard up that they will pay a $1,000 for that [19:39] pretty sad [19:40] and they're in the worst places [19:40] I am in the wrong line of business if I can make $20k a day and not do anything to earn it [19:40] the big one close is next to the landfill out in the desert [19:40] perfect place for such a garbage facility [19:41] I suppose, at least it's illegal in town [19:41] it's hard enough showing people around as it is [19:41] probably like a pin ball machine trying to stay away from the ranches [19:42] well, I try to avoid the video stores, clubs, and "novelty" shops on the main drag [19:42] we don't have that garbage here in Chicago...we just have pubs and more pubs :) [19:42] and pizza joints in between [19:43] and superdawgs and portillos [19:43] can't forget those 2...the staples of my diet :) === nielsslot_ is now known as nielsslot [19:49] Hi there [19:54] hey gnuton [19:57] :) [20:53] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/235121 <-I'm a bit confused about what the person in comment 9 is asking me to do, could anyone clarify? [20:53] Launchpad bug 235121 in kubuntu-meta "kubuntu-desktop missing "KDE" in description" [Wishlist,Triaged] [20:55] JontheEchidna: Daniel Holbach? [20:56]