[02:23] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:15] <Zelut> can anyone re-sync the keys?  I'd like to put something on REVU
[03:15] <ajmitch> sure, have you just joined the team?
[03:15] <Zelut> i joined a few hours ago, yeah,
[03:15] <ajmitch> ok, will resync now
[03:23] <Zelut> ok. uploaded.  /me sits and waits for the thrashing.
[03:33] <ajmitch> Zelut: fwiw, it's done
[03:34] <Zelut> ajmitch: figured as much. I uploaded a few minutes ago.. waiting on an email re: acceptance.
[03:34] <ajmitch> you won't get one
[03:34] <ajmitch> unless that's been changed lately :)
[03:35] <Zelut> I guess I'm used to getting an email from PPA uploads.  assumed REVU'd do the same.
[03:36] <ajmitch> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=origami ?
[03:36] <Zelut> yeah
[03:38]  * ajmitch must go into a meeting, brb
[03:55] <artfwo> Hello! Could anyone please look at bug 235696 ?
[04:53] <LaserJock> wgrant: you happen to be up?
[04:55] <ajmitch> quick! it's a LaserJock!
[04:56] <LaserJock> heh
[04:56]  * RAOF mobs LaserJock.
[04:56] <wgrant> LaserJock: I got back from uni about 2 minutes ago. Nice timing.
[04:57] <ajmitch> wgrant: careful, you've picked up a stalker
[04:57] <LaserJock> mwuahahaha >:-)
[04:58] <TheMuso> LaserJock: You are addicted aren't you.
[04:58] <ajmitch> He can stop anytime he wants...
[04:59] <LaserJock> surrrre
[05:06] <nixternal> LaserJock: come on man, take your little vacation already :P
[05:09] <LaserJock> nixternal: I'm *trying*
[05:12] <nixternal> doesn't look like you are trying
[05:18] <LaserJock> nixternal: "leaving gracefully"
[05:18] <nixternal> hehe
[05:18] <nixternal> ya right, trying to leave is more like it
[05:18] <nixternal> you are addicted dude, face the facts already
[05:29] <RoAkSoAx> lol
[05:29] <RoAkSoAx> we are all additcs :P
[05:31] <ajmitch> RoAkSoAx: but you're not trying to escape the asylum like LaserJock
[05:32] <RoAkSoAx> hahahaha LoooooL!!!
[05:32] <RoAkSoAx> is he that old?
[05:32] <ajmitch> old? no, not really
[05:33] <RoAkSoAx> so?
[05:33] <ajmitch> asylum = place for insane people
[05:33] <LaserJock> ajmitch: ? I'm ancient!
[05:33] <ScottK> LaserJock: You are a young pup.
[05:34] <ScottK> Speaking of which, this old fart needs to get to bed.
[05:34] <ScottK> Good night.
[05:34] <RoAkSoAx> ajmitch: yeah but it is also a shelter so won't exactly be for insane ppl
[05:34] <ajmitch> LaserJock: compared to our 'senior' members, not so old :)
[05:34] <RoAkSoAx> or at least that's what the dictionary says :P
[05:35] <ajmitch>        2: a hospital for mentally incompetent or unbalanced person
[05:35] <ajmitch> not the first meaning listed, but one that's common enough these days
[05:35]  * bddebian heard that!
[05:36] <ajmitch> and it describes MOTU quite well
[05:36] <ajmitch> doesn't it, bddebian ?
[05:36] <bddebian> Yep :)
[05:36] <RoAkSoAx> i have: #  A place offering protection and safety; a shelter.
[05:36] <RoAkSoAx> # A place, such as a church, formerly constituting an inviolable refuge for criminals or debtors.
[05:37] <RAOF> Yeah; the two meanings are intertwined.
[05:37] <ajmitch> if we need to debate the meaning of the phrase, then perhaps we are mad :)
[05:37] <RAOF> o/` The lunatics are on the grass o/`
[05:37] <bddebian> The inmates are running the asylum!
[05:39] <Hobbsee> you're all old.
[05:39] <ajmitch> says you
[05:39] <bddebian> heh
[05:39] <Hobbsee> yes.
[05:39] <ajmitch> kids these days, no respect
[05:39] <RoAkSoAx> i'm not... i'm about tu turn 23 :P
[05:39]  * Hobbsee pinches ajmitch's walking stick
[05:40] <wgrant> RoAkSoAx: 23 is ancient.
[05:40] <ajmitch> hey now, I was about to use that to smack some sense into you
[05:40] <Hobbsee> i know.
[05:40] <RoAkSoAx> wgrant: yeah i know :( lol hahah nah!! i'm still young to party all the time!! as in Miami After Hours!!!
[05:41]  * ajmitch is glad it's a long weekend
[05:41] <ajmitch> beer o'clock is here
[05:41] <LaserJock> bah, C++ is driving me nuts! I really need to go to the asylum
[05:42] <RoAkSoAx> the last time i've touched C++ was 3 years ago xD
[05:59] <Ahmuck> evening
[06:12] <dholbach> good morning
[06:13] <RoAkSoAx> g'morning dholbach
[06:13] <dholbach> hi RoAkSoAx
[06:15] <RoAkSoAx> well i'm going to sleep, g'night all ;)
[06:22] <Ahmuck> i'm looking for a mentor for packaging
[06:25] <nixternal> dholbach: mornin'
[06:26] <dholbach> heya nixternal
[06:27] <nixternal> kde4 packages are wearing me out
[06:27] <nixternal> I have like 10 done with about 108403804328432080 more to go
[06:27] <dholbach> nixternal: 4.1?
[06:27] <nixternal> ya
[06:28] <dholbach> nixternal: czessi told me last night he was working with apachelogger on them?
[06:28] <nixternal> beta 1 packages
[06:28] <nixternal> they better not
[06:28] <dholbach> something about "stuff building, but not in pbuilder" *shrug*
[06:28] <nixternal> noobs
[06:28] <nixternal> builds in pbuilder just fine
[06:28] <dholbach> team communication FTW! :-)
[06:28] <nixternal> that's what they get for not adding automoc to their deps :)
[06:28] <nixternal> nah, I think they know I was doing the packages for hardy and putting them in a ppa
[06:29] <dholbach> alright - just wanted to let you know since I heard him talking about it last night
[06:30] <nixternal> ya, just asked apachelogger about them in #kubuntu-devel
[06:30] <nixternal> there is no way apachelogger is doing anything right now besides partying and doing LinuxTag and whatever else is going on
[06:31] <dholbach> :)
[06:34] <geser> good morning
[06:35] <dholbach> hi geser
[06:37] <mok0> Ahmuck: just ask your questions here
[07:55] <SATA> can anybody help me with debian installer in ubuntu?
[07:57] <SATA> can anybody explain how the debian-installer works in ubuntu?
[07:58] <dholbach> SATA: try #ubuntu-installer - and I guess it'd help if your question was more specific than that :)
[07:58] <SATA> dholbach, thanx
[08:41] <artfwo> Hi again! When packaging shared libraries, is it required to include debian/shlibs or DEB_SHLIBDEP_* in rules? Or does the default dh_shlibdeps behaviour suffice for simple packages?
[09:04] <slangasek> artfwo: the default dh_shlibdeps behavior is insufficient, it's impossible for any default to be correct for all libraries (and the actual default ists only correct for libraries that never undergo ABI changes)
[09:06] <artfwo> slangasek: ok, thanks!
[09:10] <huats> morning morning
[09:11] <Karadog> What time is there?
[09:53] <sistpoty|work> hi folks
[10:06] <artfwo> what is the point of implementing get-orig-source target, if uscan can (and does by default) download new upstream versions?
[10:10] <sistpoty|work> artfwo: it's there, if the orig-tarball needs to be mangled (e.g. remove non-free bits, or upstream only provides a .tar.bz2)
[10:11] <artfwo> sistpoty|work: but if everything is okay with the orig tarball, no need for this target, right?
[10:11] <sistpoty|work> artfwo: yes, then you don't need it
[10:11] <artfwo> ok, thanks for clarifying this!
[10:13] <sistpoty|work> np
[11:37] <norsetto> anyone, please feel free to add/remove/comment bug 214727
[11:55] <emgent> morning
[11:56] <norsetto> emgent: its 13:00 where you are, this hardly qualifies for a morning ;-)
[11:58] <pochu> jdong: hi, will you upload the fix in bug 221973 to Intrepid?
[11:58] <pochu> hey emgent
[11:58] <emgent> norsetto: hehehe i know :)
[11:59] <emgent> heya pochu :)
[12:00] <emgent> omg, alias work today!
[12:01] <norsetto> laga: thx for checking
[12:03] <norsetto> laga: I guess mythbuntu-meta should be invalid too then
[12:26] <laga> norsetto: yeah.. do you want to set it to invalid?
[12:26] <norsetto> laga: done it already :-)
[12:26] <laga> yay
[12:29] <norsetto> How come is so quiet in here? Where is sebner?
[12:30] <norsetto> sebner: thx for taking care of ocaml-ladspa
[12:30] <mok0> that noisy youngster
[12:30] <sebner> norsetto: first complaining then thanking :P
[12:30] <norsetto> mok0: I heard "gangster" :-)?
[12:31] <mok0> hehe
[12:31] <sebner> norsetto: you should say: Thanks for taking care of ocaml-* :P
[12:31] <mok0> any news about the sru team, after laserjock's exit?
[12:32] <norsetto> sebner: ahhh, there are more ....
[12:32] <norsetto> sebner: did you do gmetadom by any chance?
[12:33] <norsetto> mok0: DktrKranz seem to have solved his ISP troubles and is back full steam
[12:33] <sebner> norsetto: never touched that, why?
[12:33] <lucas> mp
[12:33] <mok0> norsetto: ah good. They have quite a long queue over there
[12:33] <lucas> oops
[12:34] <norsetto> sebner: ok, that is a needed ocaml merge/sync too which is part of the transition
[12:35] <mok0> norsetto: do you know if there's an Ubuntu policy on python-numpy?
[12:35] <norsetto> sebner: its in main, thought you may like to do something for main too
[12:35] <sebner> norsetto: I'm afraid of main ^^
[12:36] <norsetto> mok0: no idea, all I know is that its in the DPMT
[12:36] <mok0> sebner: yes, be afraid, be very afraid...
[12:36] <mok0> norsetto: ok
[12:36] <sebner> mok0: hrhr, why?
[12:37] <sebner> norsetto: Looks like a sync. I'll check and file a bug later, ok?
[12:37] <norsetto> sebner: sure
[12:37] <sebner> fine
[12:38] <mok0> I have a merge where the depends: python-numpy is replaced (in Ubuntu) by: python-numpy | python-numeric-ext | python-numarray-ext. I don't think that is right
[12:38] <norsetto> mok0: perhaps scottk knows more, doko should certainly know
[12:39] <mok0> ScottK? Hello?
[12:39] <mok0> doko?
[12:40] <mok0> sebner, what happened to your icon?
[12:40] <POX__> http://wiki.debian.org/python-numpy - search for "deprecated"
[12:41] <sebner> mok0: will be uploaded at afternoon ;) And it's not *my* icon. I'm just the uploader ^^
[12:41] <POX__> related link: http://wiki.debian.org/python-scipy
[12:41] <mok0> POX__: yes exactly, that's why I wondered
[12:41] <doko> mok0, norsetto: IMO it should be dropped
[12:41] <mok0> doko: thanks! Me too
[12:42] <norsetto> hi POX__, any news about pyelemental?
[12:43] <POX__> didn't I upload it already?
[12:43] <norsetto> POX__: hmmm, I didn't see anything, shouldn't be tagged before?
[12:45] <norsetto> POX__: thanks for all your comments and the work youd did btw, appreciated it
[12:46] <sebner> norsetto: subscribed ubuntu main sponsors. what a feeling ^^
[12:46] <norsetto> sebner: now be VERY afraid :-)
[12:47] <sebner> norsetto: now a geek core-dev will come with a hammer and pull it down on my head ^^
[12:47] <sebner> mok0: what's the size for the icons?
[12:48] <POX__> norsetto: your last change in SVN is 19h old, did you ask me to upload it? Sorry, I have so many RFS request that I don't really remember what I uploaded and what not, I can check what I complained about when I'll be back home (I'm at work right now)
[12:50] <norsetto> POX__: no problem, I understand, as I said I appreciate what your are doing! Just let me know if I should so something on my side and I will
[12:50] <POX__> norsetto: if don't get ACCEPTED mail or a reply with a list of things to fix from me within 24h, mail me again
[12:50] <norsetto> POX__: will do
[12:53] <mok0> sebner: as far as I can see, they are displayed at 14x14, but most are actuall 16x16
[12:54] <highvoltage> hey norsetto, how's it going?
[12:54] <norsetto> heya highvoltage! going well, and you?
[12:55] <ScottK> mok0: Did you get your question answered?
[12:55] <highvoltage> norsetto: doing well, just came out of being locked into a cold server room for 2 hours!
[12:56] <norsetto> highvoltage: can we change places? We are already above 30 C here ....
[12:56] <sebner> mok0: hmm, the designer refuses to send/allow me to upload 16x16 ones. he thought the have to be bigger
[12:57] <mok0> sebner: It is quite difficult to make something that small, in fact
[12:57] <mok0> sebner: upload them in the size you have
[12:58] <mok0> sebner: they might be usable for desktop icons, document types or something
[12:58] <highvoltage> norsetto: unfortunately, there is a bug in linux-image-generic-2.6.24.16.18 that breaks my teleporation modules :0/
[12:58] <Lutin> StevenK: is there a particular reason why bluez-hcip b-d on bluez-libs >= 3.20 ?
[12:59] <Lutin> StevenK: I meant bluez-hcidump
[12:59] <norsetto> highvoltage: argh, always blame it on the kernel :-)!
[12:59] <StevenK> Probably so I could upload both of them at the same time
[13:01] <sebner> mok0: too big I suppose but I will take care of that
[13:01] <norsetto> oh well, its about time I eat something
[13:01] <sebner> hf norsetto
[13:02] <norsetto> sebner: hf == have fun || hf == have food ?
[13:02] <sebner> norsetto: first one but take the one you like more ^^
[13:03]  * norsetto takes hf&f
[13:05] <sebner> ^^
[13:18] <Lutin> StevenK: ok, so this can be happily dropped and the package synced, I presume
[13:22] <StevenK> Lutin: Works for me
[13:23] <Lutin> StevenK: okay
[13:25] <slytherin> norsetto: dvdrip also depends on tanscode which is in multiverse, so I believe it should stay in multiverse
[13:35] <slytherin> norsetto: also odmrip and devede depend on mencoder which is in multiverse.
[13:43] <lukehasnoname> Good Morning
[13:49] <sistpoty|work> hm... seems like I didn't miss the motu-meeting *g*
[13:50] <sistpoty|work> (as I've just been afk for half an hour)
[13:50] <sebner> sistpoty|work: today was motu meeting? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhh xD
[13:50] <sistpoty|work> sebner: erm, should have been, I guess
[13:50] <sistpoty|work> (or should still take place)
[13:51] <sebner> sistpoty|work: started 45 mins ago. Let's check
[13:53] <sistpoty|work> MOTU meeting in #ubuntu-meeting now (starting late) so please join #ubuntu-meeting
[13:55] <emgent> sebner: so.. mail alias work now
[13:56] <sebner> emgent: /here too. \o/
[13:57] <huats> is there a way to get the configure line of a package ?
[13:57] <huats> I am interested to know the current configure options...
[13:58] <directhex> look at debian/rules in the package
[14:02] <norsetto> slytherin: mencoder is a binary of mplayer, so its fine
[14:03] <slytherin> norsetto: Ok. Then just dvdrip task is invalid unless transcode is also going to be moved to universe
[14:03] <norsetto> slytherin: yes, I'm checking that right now
[14:13] <norsetto> slytherin: yes, dvdrip should remain in multiverse, can you please mark it invalid in bug 214727? Thanks!
[14:16] <huats> norsetto: norsetto !!!
[14:16] <huats> :)
[14:17] <norsetto> huats !!!!
[14:17] <geser> sebner: I'll try to process your open sync/merges today
[14:17] <sebner> geser: kk. no stress
[14:18] <bddebian> Heya gang
[14:22] <wgrant> norsetto: I believe we need to have mplayer and vlc in multiverse due to patents.
[14:22] <wgrant> Debian disables all encoding, so can get away with them in main.
[14:22] <wgrant> But we don't want to do that.
[14:22] <norsetto> wgrant: ah!
[14:22] <geser> bddebian: Boo!
[14:23] <bddebian> :-) Heya geser
[14:23] <norsetto> wgrant: ok, if thats true than the whole issue is closed
[14:23] <norsetto> wgrant: this means we have to keep a constant delta, or to make it an ubuntu package
[14:23] <wgrant> norsetto: mplayer-fonts deserves closer inspection - sounds like it wants to be kicked from the archive entirely.
[14:24] <wgrant> norsetto: We have an enormous delta, and have had for several releases.
[14:24] <wgrant> Our package isn't derived from Debian at all.
[14:24] <geser> norsetto: is the ocaml transition completed?
[14:24] <norsetto> wgrant: you are right, I should have checked it better
[14:25] <norsetto> wgrant: ok, I'll close the whole issue then, or you want to do it yourself?
[14:26] <wgrant> norsetto: I'm about to head off to bed, so can you please do it?
[14:26] <norsetto> geser: almost but not quite
[14:26] <norsetto> wgrant: ok, thanks for checking it out, I'm only sorry I wasted people time for nothing
[14:27] <wgrant> norsetto: A number of people have made the mistake before - LP really needs a per-source whiteboard.
[14:34] <mok0> Is there an apt-* program to install a .deb?
[14:35] <norsetto> mok0: apt-get ?
[14:36] <norsetto> mok0: seriously :-)
[14:36] <mok0> norsetto: I build a .deb, and it has a bunch of dependencies
[14:37] <mok0> I want to install my new deb, plus all dependencies
[14:37] <norsetto> mok0: for that I use apt-get and sometime (rarely) gdebi
[14:37] <mok0> norsetto: but apt-get won't accept a package
[14:37] <mok0> norsetto: I mean a deb
[14:38] <Hobbsee> mok0: build a repository, and install it via that?
[14:38] <norsetto> mok0: you have to have a local repo, I have it anyhow since I build quite a number of packages locally
[14:38] <mok0> Hobbsee: that's what I was hoping to avoid :-)
[14:38] <Hobbsee> mok0: there's ppa, too...
[14:38] <norsetto> mok0: well, then use gdebi
[14:39] <mok0> Hobbsee: my problem is this: I've done a merge, and I want to test the package. I don't want to put it in the ppa or a local repo. Really.
[14:39] <Hobbsee> mok0: why, though?
[14:39] <norsetto> mok0: I do it all the time, whats the deal?
[14:39] <sistpoty|work> mok0: dpkg -i *deb; apt-get -f install works for me quite good
[14:39] <Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: s/good/well/ :)
[14:39] <mok0> sistpoty|work: thanks
[14:40] <sistpoty|work> np
[14:40] <mok0> quick & dirty :-)
[14:40] <sistpoty|work> Hobbsee: yeah... too hot to write proper English *g*
[14:40] <Hobbsee> hehe
[14:40]  * Hobbsee throws sistpoty|work into the ocean again
[14:40] <Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: how hot is it there?
[14:41] <sistpoty|work> Hobbsee: hm... not too sure, but I'm sweating like mad. maybe ~30°C
[14:41] <Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: wuss.
[14:41] <Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: don't come to au in summer, then
[14:41] <sistpoty|work> heh
[14:42] <geser> the weather applet shows for my location 21°C and 78% humidity
[14:42] <norsetto> Hobbsee: don't forget you are talking to an almost viking there
[14:42] <Hobbsee> norsetto: there is that.
[14:42] <StevenK> geser: Send it over
[14:43] <norsetto> Hobbsee: contrary to mok0 which is fully viking ;-)
[14:44] <mok0> Who me? Viking?
[14:44] <mok0> It's so hot here my horns have melted
[14:44]  * norsetto wonders if mok0 has an horned helmet hidden somewhere
[14:44] <mok0> It's not horned any longer :-P
[14:44] <norsetto> oh well!
[14:45] <mok0> They'll grow out, eventually...
[14:46] <mok0> geser, how about sticking your head out the window? Or is that too un-geeky?
[14:48] <_ruben> basements dont always have windows
[14:48] <effie_jayx> hey all, I am having a hard time finding bugs to work on... what do you guys suggest I do. I have read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO/Bugs but most bugs that I seem to be able to handle have all been tackled
[14:49] <norsetto> effie_jayx: I can gladly pass you some hundreds if you really wish it
[14:49] <effie_jayx> norsetto,  bring them my way... I can see how I manage...
[14:49] <norsetto> effie_jayx: I suppose you are not looking for merges or syncs?
[14:50] <effie_jayx> norsetto,  no really no... I would love to do some merges
[14:50] <norsetto> effie_jayx: ok, then head out to mom or dad
[14:50] <effie_jayx> norsetto,  let me find some...
[14:50] <norsetto> !mom
[14:50]  * effie_jayx had forgotten about merges... :D
[14:50] <norsetto> hmmmmm
[14:50] <norsetto> !merges
[14:50] <norsetto> !merge
[14:50] <norsetto> ah, finally ....
[14:51] <geser> mok0: you mean go to the big room with the open nuclear fusion above?
[14:53]  * norsetto wonders why Ubuntu Maine-iacs is subscribed to all bugs
[14:53] <norsetto> Ubuntu Maine-iacs hmmmmm
[14:56] <effie_jayx> norsetto, what if I want to use dad... I remember it allows me to mark the merge I am working on
[14:56] <mok0> norsetto: ... I wonder more about all the other creepy names that are subscribed
[14:57] <norsetto> effie_jayx: personally, I use dad and love it
[14:57] <effie_jayx> norsetto, I got to like it in my first merge
[14:57] <effie_jayx> norsetto,  care to share a link?
[14:57] <norsetto> mok0: like ALVARO VARGAS? Gives me the creeps too :-)
[14:57] <mok0> norsetto: DaD kicks *ss
[14:58] <norsetto> !merge | effie_jayx
[14:58] <pochu> norsetto: ALVARO VIAGRAS you said? :P
[14:58] <pochu> sounds like spam ;)
[14:58] <mok0> norsetto: yeah and osama
[14:58] <norsetto> pochu: lol
[14:59] <mok0> I am sure these are spam harvesters
[14:59] <mok0> how about tbill25642tbjbt
[14:59] <mok0> very spammy sound to that on
[14:59] <mok0> one
[14:59] <pochu> yeah, someone did some research in launchpad-users@
[14:59] <pochu> and they subscribed almost the same day and have never done anything there...
[14:59] <pochu> heh
[15:00] <mok0> They should be cleaned out
[15:00] <pochu> agreed
[15:00] <pochu> and there should be two different categories in also notified
[15:00] <pochu> per project and per package
[15:00] <mok0> In fact, no one should be able to subscribe to all bugs
[15:01] <mok0> It doesn't make sense
[15:01] <pochu> well, for a distribution that makes sense, right
[15:01] <pochu> (what you said, I mean)
[15:01] <pochu> they can join ubuntu-bugs@
[15:01] <mok0> Is that a mailman operated list?
[15:03] <pochu> mok0: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[15:03] <mok0> I have started getting spam on my address after they appeared
[15:03] <pochu> mok0: ubuntu-bugs - Ubuntu bug tracker changes - HIGH VOLUME
[15:03] <pochu> HIGH!!
[15:03] <pochu> YOU'RE WARNED!
[15:03] <pochu> ;)
[15:03] <mok0> Hehe
[15:03] <Hobbsee> mok0: hope you never use an @ubuntu.com address..
[15:03] <pochu> if you subscribe to that list, your GMail quota will hit it's limit before you can unsubscribe
[15:03] <mok0> Hobbsee: I don't have one
[15:04] <mok0> Hobbsee: why is that?
[15:04] <Hobbsee> mok0: lucky you, then.  they attract spam really badly.
[15:04] <mok0> Hobbsee: I have a good filter
[15:04] <Hobbsee> then why do you care about the spam?
[15:04] <mok0> Only about 1% get through
[15:04] <Hobbsee> ah
[15:05] <mok0> Hobbsee: I don't, I've just noticed that my new address has started getting spam after these guys appeared on the bugs list
[15:05] <persia> mok0: What's your LP account again?
[15:05] <mok0> mok0?
[15:05] <mok0> persia: ^
[15:06] <persia> mok0: You surely do have an @ubuntu.com address, although it may be stuck somehow.
[15:06] <mok0> persia: Oh, cool
[15:10] <geser> sebner: did you managed to test-build the evolution-sharp you want to sync in intrepid? it FTBFS for me.
[15:19] <jpds> anyone have  nifty command to remove all "CVS" dirs from source?
[15:20] <sistpoty|work> s.th. like find . -name="CVS" -type=d -exec rm  -rf '{}' ';' (not tested, use at own risk)
[15:20] <mok0> jpds: extract the tar ball with --exclude
[15:21] <mok0> or find . -name CVS -type d |xargs rm -rf
[15:21] <jpds> mok0: true
[15:22] <norsetto> geser: was wondering about ocaml-http, for some devious reasons, the DD made it a debian package, so now if I rebuild it, it bumps the .tar.gz version too ... is that ok?
[15:22] <jpds> mok0: appears to have worked, thanks and you too sistpoty|work :)
[15:22] <sistpoty|work> np
[15:22] <norsetto> geser: I mean, a debian NATIVE package
[15:23] <mok0> oh, there's a new kernel today
[15:24] <geser> norsetto: it's normal for native packages, and btw ocaml-http is already rebuild (uploaded 18 min ago)
[15:24] <sebner> testbuild succeded /here
[15:24] <mok0> sebner: well done
[15:24] <norsetto> geser: ok
[15:24] <sebner> mok0: hmm?
[15:25] <mok0> sebner: j/k
[15:26] <sebner> mok0: xD why well done?
[15:26] <sebner> geser: if it's an error with perl just update your pbuilder intrepid chroot ^^
[15:26] <mok0> sebner: your test build succeeded :-)
[15:26] <norsetto> geser: btw, don't attempt ocaml-lastfm yet, it needs ocaml-xmlplaylist which I uploaded this morning
[15:26] <sebner> mok0: lol
[15:46] <mok0> wgrant, ping
[15:48] <norsetto> mok0: he just went to bed
[15:48] <mok0> norsetto: and his brain is not connected to irc I guess...
[15:49] <norsetto> mok0: he is dreaming us .. well, nightmaring us rather
[15:50] <mok0> norsetto: yeah that's what happens when a googlebot is scanning you at night
[15:51] <geser> sebner: evolution-sharp B-D on evolution-dev which isn't currently installable on intrepid AMD64
[15:51] <Zelut> can anyone take a look at my package in REVU? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=origami
[15:53] <sebner> geser: ah. I only have i386 for testing
[15:53] <geser> sebner: there is builds?
[15:53]  * geser needs to create a intrepid-i386 pbuilder then
[15:55] <mok0> When a bug has been fixed in an intrepid upload, I put the (LP: ..) stanza in changelog, which will set it to fix-released. But what if the bug is still valid in the older distributions?
[15:55] <mario_limonciell> tseliot, where are you at so far on the nvidia stuff?
[15:55] <sistpoty|work> mok0: then you'll need to open a task for that (it will only close the task for the distribution found in changelog afaik)(
[15:55] <norsetto> mok0: it will close the one corresponding to the distro used in the changelog
[15:56] <mok0> You mean open a task for intrepid, or hardy... etc
[15:57] <tseliot> ﻿mario_limonciell: I had made a first (draft quality) package but tjaalton wanted to merge my package with the one in Debian therefore I'm waiting to see the result
[15:57] <mario_limonciell> tseliot, debian doesn't have dkms yet afaik?
[15:58] <tseliot> ﻿mario_limonciell: no, therefore the result would be more or less like the debian package + DKMS
[15:59] <sebner> geser: yep
[15:59] <tseliot> ﻿mario_limonciell: I mean, + my work on DKMS
[15:59] <mario_limonciell> tseliot, hmm okay.
[15:59] <directhex> saves you the mucking about with a "beta" driver though, since it's not beta anymore
[15:59] <geser> sebner: please add a comment then and subscribe u-m-s as evolution-sharp is in main
[16:00]  * mok0 can't figure out how to open a task on ii
[16:00] <mario_limonciell> tseliot, well i might refer you to take a look at the updated packaging I did for fglrx..
[16:00] <mario_limonciell> tseliot, it is a lot more readable and maintainable now
[16:00] <sebner> geser: after gutsy it moved to universe
[16:00] <mdomsch> debian wishlist for dkms: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=481590
[16:01] <tseliot> ﻿mario_limonciell: sure, can you give me a link to the package?
[16:01] <mario_limonciell> oh geez, i dont like the packaging for nvidia-glx in debian
[16:02] <tseliot> ﻿mario_limonciell: it's what I told tjaalton the first time I saw it ;)
[16:02] <mario_limonciell> mdomsch, have you talked to David Paleino?  leveraging the ubuntu packaging would probably be a good start
[16:02] <geser> sebner: ah, it's was in main when I touch it
[16:02] <mdomsch> mario_limonciell, no, I haven't - I was actually looking for a wishlist request from years ago; but that one turned up first.
[16:03] <mdomsch> items must get dropped from the wishlist if no one takes them on after a while
[16:03] <mdomsch> like this:
[16:03] <mdomsch> http://www.archivum.info/debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org/2005-05/msg06520.html
[16:03] <sebner> geser: ROFL. I wanted to testbuilt again and now it also FTBFS. you have bad karma -.- but the first try was successfully since I have a  libevolution3.0-cil_0.17.1-2_i386.deb   -.-
[16:03] <mario_limonciell> i'll shoot him an email
[16:04] <mdomsch> http://bugs.debian/org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=311130
[16:04] <mario_limonciell> tseliot, tjaalton well what is the appealing thing about using the nvidia package in debian then?
[16:04] <mdomsch> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=311130
[16:04] <geser> sebner: I ACK'ed is one minute ago.
[16:05] <mario_limonciell> ah mdomsch
[16:05] <directhex> sebner, any idea if it's better behaved against mono 1.9.1?
[16:05] <geser> sebner: I will look that it get builds successfully during my work on the FTBFS list
[16:05] <sebner> directhex: don't think so
[16:05] <sebner> geser: k, thanks
[16:05] <tseliot> ﻿mario_limonciell: contributing to debian, I guess
[16:06] <directhex> sebner, not that intrepid has merged 1.9.1 yet. *cough*
[16:06] <sebner> directhex: I know. hrhr
[16:06] <tseliot> ﻿mario_limonciell: I can't find the link to the source code of your new fglrx packages
[16:06] <mario_limonciell> tseliot, well my own opinion would be to redo it locally, and propose the cleaner package to them
[16:07] <mok0> sistpoty|work: I can't figure out how to set that task
[16:07] <mario_limonciell> tseliot, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer
[16:08] <tseliot> ﻿mario_limonciell: basically I had stripped down the code of the lrm and adopted the debian naming schemes for the packages.
[16:08] <mario_limonciell> tseliot, yeah i instead opted to rewrite the whole thing in cdbs
[16:13] <directhex> superm1's plan sounds better. i tried hacking on lrm too, it was messy
[16:13] <directhex> very messy
[16:15] <tseliot> ﻿directhex: it's not that hard to deal with
[16:16] <sistpoty|work> mok0: use nominate for a release
[16:16] <sistpoty|work> mok0: on the left
[16:16] <directhex> tseliot, there's just so much crap in the debian/rules file, you've got to be alert or you miss something & your build fails at the last minute, due to stray lines for crappy isdn routers or somesuch
[16:19] <tseliot> ﻿directhex: the debian/rules was more or less 1300 lines of code but now my debian/rules is about 500
[16:19] <tseliot> lines
[16:19] <directhex> tseliot, well, maybe that was the problem, maybe it was that it was taking me over my PPA space allowance to have source & binaries on there. one or t'other
[16:21] <mok0> sistpoty|work: thanks!
[16:21] <sistpoty|work> np
[16:21]  * mok0 thinks "Nominate for release" -> "Create task"
[16:22] <mok0> "Create release task" even
[16:22] <tseliot> ﻿directhex: aah, you're the guy from Oxford, right? I'm going to include the latest NVIDIA driver soon, don't worry
[16:23] <directhex> tseliot, no hurry, the powers that be demanded i use RHEL for the tesla machines
[16:23] <lukehasnoname> Demanded CRAP
[16:23] <directhex> joy of joys, etc etc etc
[16:24] <directhex> tseliot, you get to do it all again when 177.x leaves NDA-land
[16:24] <lukehasnoname> what sort of tesla machine?
[16:24] <tseliot> ﻿directhex: ?
[16:25] <directhex> tseliot, the 177.x driver series that officially doesn't exist. it'll be needed to power their next-gen gpus (gt200 chip). and it appears to have a different list of supported gpus to 173.x, just to make life interesting
[16:26] <mario_limonciell> tseliot, my rules file is only 91 lines :)
[16:26] <directhex> lukehasnoname, officially, only a S870
[16:27] <lukehasnoname> I'd love to have one of those
[16:27] <tseliot> ﻿directhex: will the current driver become yet another legacy driver?
[16:27]  * tseliot bangs his head on the desk
[16:28] <lukehasnoname> The company I work for was putting about 40 blade servers into storage yesterday
[16:28] <lukehasnoname> I asked for one, to no avail
[16:28] <directhex> tseliot, i don't know. but the 5000 series definitely isn't supported right now, whereas it is in 173.x
[16:29] <tseliot> ﻿mario_limonciell: that's another kettle of fish ;)
[16:30] <tseliot> ﻿directhex: sounds like I'll have a lot of fun in the future...
[16:30] <directhex> tseliot, yep. hooray!
[16:30] <directhex> tseliot, i suspect khensu or whoever does the debian nvidia packaging these days will be equally filled with joy
[16:31] <mario_limonciell> someone needs a nice solution for that.  we can't stand to have nvidia-glx-new-new show up
[16:32] <directhex> i agree. a rethink is needed!
[16:32] <mario_limonciell> who should do the rethink though?
[16:32] <directhex> otherwise tseliot here will have 4 nvidia drivers to play with. per release. assuming ati don't start doing the same thing
[16:32] <norsetto> mario_limonciell: if we can cope with the new-old-sinagogue and a new-new-debian-python policy I think we can deal twith that too ...
[16:32] <tseliot> ﻿mario_limonciell: there will be nvidia-glx, nvidia-glx-legacy-96xx, ﻿nvidia-glx-legacy-71xx and maybe ﻿nvidia-glx-legacy-173xx
[16:33] <mario_limonciell> geesh
[16:33] <mario_limonciell> the bigger problem is that some of those releases "do" overlap on the HW they support
[16:33] <tseliot> ﻿norsetto: I'm so glad that I have no idea of what you're talking about :-P
[16:34] <tseliot> ﻿mario_limonciell: it's not a problem
[16:34]  * norsetto votes for nvidia-glx-newer, nvidia-glx-new and nvidia-glx-legacy (future proof ;-) )
[16:34] <mario_limonciell> well in terms of selecting a driver to be using it could be, say if something is is better supported in one release on this hardware
[16:34] <tseliot> ﻿mario_limonciell: I deal with that problem in EnvyNG already
[16:34] <mario_limonciell> but better supported in that release with that hardware
[16:35] <tseliot> ﻿norsetto: you're forgetting the "even-newer" flavour
[16:35] <directhex> tseliot, nvidia-glx-newest!
[16:35] <directhex> ooh, how about nvidia-glx-newissimo!
[16:35] <mario_limonciell> nvidia-glx-newest+1
[16:36] <mario_limonciell> oh but + probably isn't valid in the package name
[16:36] <tseliot> ﻿mario_limonciell: we'll have a centralised database for this
[16:36] <tseliot> ﻿mario_limonciell: so that we can store this kind of information on the drivers
[16:36] <mario_limonciell> tseliot, tjaalton so the other thing that should be done sometime in intrepid, a /usr/share/xserver-xorg/pci/00nvidia should be shipped in each of these packages
[16:37] <mario_limonciell> inside it, if the correct identifiers are listed, the automatic xorg detection stuff should automatically turn on nvidia instead of nv
[16:38] <tseliot> ﻿mario_limonciell: ok in this last case we the pci-ids would overlap
[16:38] <tseliot> it's a very interesting idea though
[16:38] <mario_limonciell> tseliot, well these should be shipped in nvidia-glx nvidia-glx-legacy-XYZ etc
[16:38] <mario_limonciell> so they are only used when you have a driver selected
[16:38] <mario_limonciell> i'm going to have to experiment with the right way to do it, but I'll activate it in the fglrx driver too
[16:39] <directhex> let them overlap - there's got to be a way to deal with overlap simply by saying "you overlap and have the highest version"
[16:39] <tseliot> ﻿mario_limonciell: yes, definitely. We don't want X to try to load a driver which is not installed ;)
[16:40] <mario_limonciell> i talked  to bryce about this briefly at UDS, and in theory it should work properly
[16:40] <mario_limonciell> and assuming you installed the proprietary driver you will want it on by default, so it's a good idea
[16:41] <tseliot> ﻿directhex: right
[16:42] <tseliot> ﻿mario_limonciell: yes, it is a good idea
[16:44] <norsetto> geser: seems like we only have an handful of ocaml packages left
[16:44]  * tseliot goes back to work on his new xorg parser
[16:46] <directhex> sebner, if you want to try building against 1.9.1, grab http://ppa.launchpad.net/directhex/ubuntu/pool/main/m/mono/mono_1.9.1+dfsg-1ubuntu1~dhx1.dsc
[16:46] <directhex> sebner, builds against hardy or intrepid without modifications
[16:48] <geser> norsetto: good
[16:48] <geser> norsetto: some ocaml-* packages got synced today
[16:48] <norsetto> geser: yes, seen that, in my book we have still gdome2-xslt, lablgtkmathview, ocaml-lastfm and ocaml-vorbis, all the others are building or a sync has been requested
[16:50] <geser> norsetto: lablgtkmathview waits on some other package but I already forgot which one, could be gdome2-xslt
[16:51] <norsetto> geser: I think gmetadom
[16:52] <geser> could be, I only remember a g in the package name
[16:52] <sebner> directhex: no need to. it's something with evolution ;)
[16:52] <norsetto> devfil: hi devid, got in touch with asac?
[16:53] <sebner> geser: Tomorrow I'll file a bug for ocaml-mad and you can ACK it again ^^
[16:53] <devfil> norsetto: I'm reading the email, thanks
[16:54] <norsetto> devfil: asac is a good chap, please profit from his expertise. You'll be a mozilla expert in no time ;-)
[16:54] <devfil> asac: ping
[17:01] <asac> devfil: hey
[17:02] <asac> can we chat tomorrow or later? i am on my way out
[17:02] <devfil> asac: yes sure
[17:02] <devfil> asac: ping me when you can chat
[17:17] <mok0> norsetto: you there?
[17:20] <mok0> ScottK: you there?
[17:20] <emgent> mok0: you there?
[17:21] <mok0> emgent: Really I am not sure :-)
[17:21] <emgent> COOL! :)
[17:24] <mok0> What can everyone be doing on a boring Friday evening?
[17:25]  * sistpoty|work is developing novel methods to shoot himself in the foot *g*
[17:28] <mok0> What to do about a bug where a fix is given, but does not require any patching of the software? The problem is solved for the reporter, but it seems wrong to set the bug to "invalid" or "won't fix".
[17:29] <sistpoty|work> mok0: hm... do you have a bug number?
[17:30] <mok0> bug 220137
[17:31] <mok0> sistpoty|work: I could go back to TkAgg as the default
[17:33] <mok0> ... and then close it from changelog
[17:33] <sistpoty|work> mok0: yes, that might make sense. imho the bug is that GTKagg doesn't work as expected (either by design or from a bug)
[17:33] <mok0> sistpoty|work: I think that is the better solution. Debian ships with TkAgg
[17:47] <norsetto> mok0: ah ... there is nothing as a mid-afternoon nap :-)
[18:04] <mok0> norsetto: while you were napping, my problem was solved :-)
[18:04] <norsetto> mok0: best way to solve a problem, just sleep over it
[18:04] <mok0> norsetto: lol
[18:06] <mok0> You know, when reporting a bug in ubuntu, there should be a checkbox where people had to put the release
[18:10] <norsetto> mok0: you would be surprised to know how many users don't actually know which release they are running
[18:10] <norsetto> mok0: so, asking "1) The release of Ubuntu you are using, via 'lsb_release -rd' or System -> About Ubuntu." makes sense
[18:11] <mario_limonciell> too bad it's not reported in the FF user agent string
[18:11] <mok0> norsetto: yes
[18:11] <LaserJock> mario_limonciell: it is, but that's not very reliable
[18:12] <mario_limonciell> why?
[18:12] <LaserJock> because I often use my mac to work on files and file them
[18:12] <LaserJock> etc.
[18:13] <LaserJock> you shouldn't really assume that somebody is filing a bug with the same machine as the bug, IMO
[18:13] <LaserJock> that's also a slight issue with the lsb_release method too, but it's more clear
[18:15] <mario_limonciell> well perhaps if LP looked at that string, and said, hey is this the computer you are filing this bug about
[18:15] <mario_limonciell> and gave a shiny check box
[18:15] <laga> ooh, shiny
[18:15] <LaserJock> perhaps, but that's quite Ubuntu-specific
[18:16] <mario_limonciell> isn't that the issue at hand though?
[18:16] <LaserJock> in general, Malone is not just for Ubuntu
[18:16] <mario_limonciell> people not knowing what ubuntu release they're on
[18:16] <mario_limonciell> oh
[18:16] <mario_limonciell> i'd venture to say a majority of the bugs filed on it are for Ubuntu however
[18:17] <LaserJock> that's quite beside the point
[18:17] <LaserJock> they are building a general bug tracker
[18:17] <lukehasnoname> Just have a drop menu that asks for OS
[18:17] <LaserJock> what they *have* done is given Ubuntu it's own bug filing "hints" where lsb_release is used
[18:17] <lukehasnoname> if Ubuntu is chosen, ask for release time
[18:17] <lukehasnoname> *type, with instruction on how to find out
[18:18] <pochu> Launchpad should trigger apport!
[18:18]  * pochu returns to the study mode
[18:19] <LaserJock> ugg, I don't much care for apport filing bugs for me
[18:20] <LaserJock> the +filebug-advanced does have instruction on how to get the source package, Ubuntu release, version of package
[18:21] <LaserJock> but I would think that it'd be the regular +filebug page that'd need instructions
[18:24] <norsetto> LaserJock: Hey doc, how's your Phd doing?
[18:24] <LaserJock> I've been banging my head against a C++ data processing app this week
[18:25] <LaserJock> maybe today I'll get it working
[18:25] <LaserJock> pointers and me aren't getting along
[18:25] <norsetto> LaserJock: just be nice to them, don't do things like *(&a)++
[18:28]  * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
[18:28] <mathiaz> Could one of the revu admin mark me as a Reviewer in the database ? It also seems that I don't have an account on revu.
[18:28] <LaserJock> my current method is: 1) try without pointers 2) stick a * in front 3) stick a & in front 4) stick a * in front of everything
[18:29]  * MatthewV is Away, Reason: ( bed time for me Zzzzz.. ) | Since: ( Friday, May 30, 2008. 20:22:14 ) Xlack v2.1
[18:29] <norsetto> LaserJock: thats more or less everybody's method ;-)
[18:31] <norsetto> LaserJock: for me it really helped to write things down on a piece of paper, what pointers are point where and how they are changing
[18:34] <LaserJock> norsetto: yeah, I mostly get tripped up when I use something that requires a pointer as an argument
[18:34] <LaserJock> and I didn't want to give it a pointer
[18:35] <norsetto> LaserJock: oh well, thats a granted SIGSEGV
[18:39] <norsetto> LaserJock: did you see this: http://core.joejaxx.net/~joejaxx/ircstats/freenode/ubuntu-motu/ ?
[18:39] <norsetto> LaserJock: I really like your random comment ... lol
[18:40] <sebner> norsetto: I like my one :P  "norsetto: I want my hug! ^^"
[18:40]  * norsetto hugs sebner :-)
[18:40]  * sebner hugs norsetto back =)
[18:41] <pochu> looooooool
[18:41] <pochu> Most used words
[18:41] <lukehasnoname> If I see a package that will need a newer version in Ibex than what is listed on packages.ubuntu.com, should I file a bug or tell you?
[18:41] <pochu> 5"persia"14733
[18:41] <LaserJock> norsetto: what the heck? how am I that high
[18:41] <pochu> persia: sorry for the highlight :)
[18:42] <norsetto> lukehasnoname: file a bug in debian ;-)
[18:43] <norsetto> LaserJock: scott is more talkative than you, but he cheats (uses two accounts) ;-)
[18:44] <lukehasnoname> Do you guys get Debian packages from testing?
[18:45] <norsetto> lukehasnoname: sid
[18:45]  * mok0 thinks we should get them from testing...
[18:46] <lukehasnoname> is sid unstable?
[18:46] <pochu> that would be boring ;)
[18:46] <pochu> lukehasnoname: yes
[18:46] <lukehasnoname> k
[18:49] <lukehasnoname> done
[18:50] <lukehasnoname> a report was already files.
[18:50] <lukehasnoname> filed.
[18:51] <norsetto> lukehasnoname: thats why I asked, its very often the case
[18:52] <norsetto> lukehasnoname: we sync regularly until DIF (Debian Import Freeze), if Debian has a package after this date you need to ask for a sync
[18:53] <norsetto> lukehasnoname: what you can do is open a bug report in LP (assuming there is nt one already) and link the debian bug to it, so that we keep trace
[18:55] <lukehasnoname> So until DIF you just grab what Debian has, and after that any package updates should be filed directly with Ubuntu
[18:56] <norsetto> lukehasnoname: yes, until freeze when it has to be approved by the release team too
[18:56] <norsetto> lukehasnoname: but change "package updates" with syncs
[18:57] <norsetto> lukehasnoname: if debian is not updating the package, and an ubuntu dev is interested, he may make the update himself
[18:58] <norsetto> lukehasnoname: sometime that is necessary if the package is orphaned or abandoned in debian, and of course is necessary if it is an ubuntu specific package
[18:58] <lukehasnoname> right
[18:59] <lukehasnoname> So while you're on a roll, what's the diff between a sync and a package update?
[18:59] <norsetto> lukehasnoname: a sync can be a bug fix, or a package change, not necessarily a new upstream version
[19:01] <lukehasnoname> gotcha
[19:10] <lukehasnoname> How hard is it to take a package from Debian and make it a package for Ubuntu?
[19:10] <lukehasnoname> I'm a package nub
[19:11] <pochu> err, Ubuntu uses Debian packages :)
[19:11] <pochu> so usually it should be as easy as doing nothing
[19:11] <lukehasnoname> just straight up? I knew they're both deb format, I didn't know if any extra config is done to Ubuntu ones
[19:12] <lukehasnoname> I didn't know the ties were THAT close.
[19:12] <pochu> lukehasnoname: they are rebuilt in Ubuntu, but most of the packages aren't changed at all
[19:15] <lukehasnoname> I'll read /PackagingGuide before I ask any more questiosn
[19:15] <lukehasnoname> questions
[19:17] <devfil_> pochu: do you have works for me?
[19:41] <speart> hi, I discovered a bug in 8.04 caused by installation of a package, someone can help me to get write a proper bug report?
[19:42] <lukehasnoname> bugs.launchpad.net
[19:42] <lukehasnoname> <_<
[19:42] <lukehasnoname> What do you need help with?
[19:43] <speart> I need to pinpoint the exact problem
[19:44] <lukehasnoname> ack
[19:44] <lukehasnoname> well I'm no expert, and I'm at work
[19:44] <lukehasnoname> pochu, this guy needs help if you're ther
[19:44] <lukehasnoname> e
[19:45] <speart> I have a shutdown problem.. after installing the boinc client my computer which ran perfectly is hanging on shutdown
[19:45] <speart> even after purging the packages
[20:00] <lukehasnoname> speart I have a shutdown problem.. after installing the boinc client my computer which ran perfectly is hanging on shutdown
[20:00] <lukehasnoname> speart even after purging the packages
[20:00] <lukehasnoname> nxvl you know the answer for this guy?
[20:31] <stani> ScottK, pochu: I am about to upload to debian a bug fix release for Phatch which has all the ubuntu patches and some fixes of two critical bugs related to translations.
[20:32] <stani> The bugs are critical because rosetta translation bugs made Phatch unusable for a lot of languages.
[20:33] <stani> I've developed together with Frank a unittest framework for rosetta translations which located many errors so I could fix them.
[20:33] <stani> (This took some time.)
[20:34] <stani> So my plan is to get Phatch in Debian -> Intrepid -> backport to Hardy.
[20:42] <mib_r2ldbk> crap I logged in wrong
[20:43] <mib_r2ldbk> anywho, funny link if you haven't seen it: http://xkcd.com/424/
[20:52] <pochu> stani: rather than backport, we want it in -updates if it's a bugfix release
[20:55] <ScottK> stani: I agree with pochu.  We should do an update to the existing Hardy package with the two bug fixes.
[21:17] <stani> pochu, ScottK: ok, I am still learning, but it can be the new release or do you want two debdiffs (which would make no sense as it would be more work for exactly the same result)
[21:17] <stani> question mark ;-)
[21:18] <ScottK> Is the new release JUST the two bug fixes?
[21:20] <stani> and tons of po files, they have almost all changed (except for english and dutch)
[21:21] <pochu> I'm happy with bug fixes + updated translations
[21:22] <stani> yes, the new release is nothing but bugfixes as it is part of the 0.1.* release
[21:22] <LaserJock> stani: why were the po files updated?
[21:22] <stani> new work is done in 0.2.* which is not available yet
[21:22] <LaserJock> stani: were the released po's bad?
[21:22] <pochu> updated translations I guess :)
[21:22] <stani> LaserJock: I found out rosetta translations can invoke a lot of bugs
[21:22] <stani> for example keyboard shortcuts...
[21:23] <stani> sometimes "New\tCtrl+N" is translated in "New \t Ctrl+N"
[21:23] <stani> which assigns the letter N and not Ctrl+N to the new command
[21:23] <stani> this makes typing text in the application impossible
[21:24] <LaserJock> stani: ok, so they're fixing translations and more complete translations?
[21:24] <RoAkSoAx> stani, and when translated to other languages they change the key combinations
[21:24] <stani> yes, but I do not want to allow that
[21:25] <stani> Also they translate Ctrl+Space in Ctrl+Foo where Foo is the translation of the word Space
[21:25] <stani> this breaks the shortcut as well
[21:25] <RoAkSoAx> stani, so you saying, if in english is CTRL+S to save for example, and in spanish.. would be CTRL+G, that should not happen, and we should keep CTRL+S ???
[21:26] <RoAkSoAx> like if it was not translated that way won't break the shortcut?
[21:26] <stani> I can only allow that if there is one person in that language doing redaction
[21:26] <stani> if one person does translate the shortcut and others don't, you get conflicting shortcuts
[21:27] <LaserJock> stani: I meant your .po changes are fixing translations and making them more complete?
[21:27] <stani> LaserJock: yes they are only fixing translations and adding some which have been added
[21:28] <LaserJock> stani: I would be ok with an SRU bringing in that new release
[21:28] <norsetto> LaserJock: whats the procedure when a package in -updates needs to be changed? Should it be uploaded to -proposed and tag be reversed or what?
[21:29] <LaserJock> norsetto: yikes, a bad SRU?
[21:29] <norsetto> LaserJock: sorry, in "-proposed"needs to be chnaged
[21:29] <LaserJock> oh
[21:29] <LaserJock> that's actually a good question
[21:29] <LaserJock> ideally we'd have an archive admin remove the bad package so you could upload a fixed one with the same version
[21:30] <LaserJock> then yeah, you'd re do the tags
[21:30] <laga> LaserJock: will people get the updated package from -proposed then?
[21:30] <LaserJock> probably not
[21:30] <pochu> I think so
[21:30] <norsetto> LaserJock: in this case its ok, it was a rebuild (build0.1) and now its a new version (ubuntu0.1) since the rebuild alone will not work
[21:30] <pochu> no?
[21:30] <LaserJock> you'd have to remove them first
[21:30] <LaserJock> norsetto: ah, excellent
[21:31] <LaserJock> norsetto: remove the verification done and please ask for MOTU SRU to ack as we'd want to look at the changes
[21:31] <norsetto> LaserJock: I mean, the rebuild alone would work but the package is crapy so neeeds to be patched to have it working ....
[21:31] <norsetto> crapy, neeeds, sigh ...
[21:31] <LaserJock> norsetto: what is the bug? let me check it out
[21:32] <norsetto> LaserJock: and you would not be so kind to check it out :-) ?
[21:32] <norsetto> bug 224847
[21:35] <norsetto> LaserJock: patch attached
[21:45] <LaserJock> norsetto: why do people report that the original rebuild worked?
[21:45] <LaserJock> norsetto: did your tests fail?
[21:45] <norsetto> LaserJock: that problem was solved, it works, its just the python scripts that do not
[21:46] <LaserJock> so it's solving a separate-but-related problem
[21:47] <norsetto> LaserJock: the initial problem can only be solved with a rebuild, with new pycentral, but the reuilt package fails since the script locations are hardcoded and do not follow the pycentral recent transition
[21:48] <norsetto> LaserJock: actually, the rebuilt package works ok, is just the python scripts which are not linked correctly by the hardcoded links
[21:50] <RoAkSoAx> xvre
[21:50] <tbielawa> oh hello LaserJock!
[21:50] <tbielawa> You were right, that bibus package was pretty nasty.
[21:50] <RoAkSoAx> sry wrong channel
[21:50] <RoAkSoAx> o/ tbielawa long time no see
[21:51] <tbielawa> Almost got it done though, learned a whole buncha policy along the way
[21:51] <LaserJock> tbielawa: hi, sorry I haven't had time to look at bibus more :(
[21:51] <tbielawa> RoAkSoAx, hi to you too
[21:51] <LaserJock> tbielawa: have you gotten more feedback on it?
[21:51] <tbielawa> LaserJock, No worries, I'm pretty autonomous
[21:51] <LaserJock> tbielawa: that's a good way to be in a community of volunteers :-)
[21:52] <LaserJock> norsetto: ack'd, please add a new test case, etc.
[21:53] <norsetto> LaserJock: sure, thx for looking into it
[21:53] <tbielawa> I'm giving a packaging 101 session for some of the admins of a lab I maintain, this coming monday, I've collected a lot of good resources alng the way preparing
[21:53] <LaserJock> tbielawa: awesome!
[21:54] <tbielawa> LaserJock, spreading the knowledge ++.
[21:54] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock: btw, thought you were going to give a merging 101 class sometime soon
[21:55] <LaserJock> me?
[21:55] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm on sabbatical now :(
[21:55] <pochu> Baby: hi :) is the simcity already packaged?
[21:56] <RoAkSoAx> LaserJock: the other they when i was teaching no0tic how i did the merge of virt-viewer you said that you were going to give a class about merging
[21:56] <LaserJock> ah
[21:56] <LaserJock> well I should
[21:56] <LaserJock> but I can't presently
[21:57] <RoAkSoAx> no worries, i just remembered that xD
[21:59] <LaserJock> it did seem like our merging documentation was pretty outdated
[22:02] <RoAkSoAx> i think you said that you were thinking about having a UD Reference Guide?
[22:10] <effie_jayx> I have a question regarding a merge... the changelog, what do I write if I find that all changes have blended in fine... do I list the changes that require the merge again... debian has not taken up any of these changes yet since they do not use pulse audio
[22:10] <effie_jayx> In my first merge I remember that I had to report again why I was doing the merge
[22:11]  * effie_jayx thinks he may have answered to himself but just wants to be sure
[22:11] <pochu> effie_jayx: you have to report all the changes, yes
[22:12] <effie_jayx> thanks pochu
[22:12] <effie_jayx> pochu,  do I report changes that come from the debian version as well or not since they are already in the debian changelog
[22:12] <effie_jayx> ?
[22:13] <pochu> effie_jayx: no, no need to report them
[22:13] <effie_jayx> cool
[22:13] <pochu> effie_jayx: just the Ubuntu delta
[22:17] <RoAkSoAx> effie_jayx: actually,only the ubuntu changes ;)
[22:17] <effie_jayx> thanks RoAkSoAx
[22:17]  * RoAkSoAx just getting used to irssi :S
[22:24] <mok0> effie_jayx: the previous changelog entries from updates in debian are included when you use the -v switch to dpkg-buildpackage
[22:42] <sistpoty> hi folks
[22:44] <sistpoty> hm... how do we proceed now with motu-sru? (thanks a lot to RainCT and ScottK for volunteering as well!)
[22:49] <ScottK> I don't think RainCT volunteered.
[22:50] <sistpoty> well, he kinda volunteered :P
[22:53] <sistpoty> still, how should we proceed? wait until monday if more people volunteer?
[22:59] <LaserJock> sistpoty: well , what do you mean by "proceed"?
[23:00] <LaserJock> we have had 1 week for nominations?
[23:00] <sistpoty> LaserJock: yes, but after that period ScottK also volunteered and rainct kind of volunteered (at least I guess I could talk him into it)
[23:01] <LaserJock> so we only need to vote?
[23:01] <sistpoty> LaserJock: so my plan as posted to the ubuntu-motu, to skip a vote might not be the best thing
[23:02] <sistpoty> LaserJock: I mean, do want to vote, should we wait before we vote... *shrug*
[23:02] <LaserJock> so how many people do we have as candidates?
[23:02] <sistpoty> currently 2 1/2 (\sh, ScottK and eventually rainct (no too clear from his mail for me))
[23:03] <LaserJock> well, if there are only 2 I don't see much point in a vote
[23:03] <LaserJock> if there are 3 we should probably have one, unless we want 1 more person in MOTU SRU
[23:05] <sistpoty> hm...
[23:06]  * sistpoty is out for a smoke to think *g*
[23:10] <norsetto> who are the people actually leaving, laser and imbrandon?
[23:11] <sistpoty> norsetto: that's what's my impression is from the thread
[23:12] <norsetto> sistpoty: right, so its an impression or we actually asked and people told us ;-)
[23:13] <sistpoty> norsetto: that impression is actually based on the mail from LaserJock, so maybe you'd like to skip me as proxy ;)
[23:14] <norsetto> sistpoty: I know about LaserJock, but I've never seen anywhere what the other 4 wants to do (probably my fault as my ISP spam filter about everything)
[23:14] <sistpoty> heh
[23:16] <sistpoty> hm... how about we extent the deadline for volunteers until Monday, and if we've got > 2 volunteers, we'll call for a vote?
[23:17] <LaserJock> norsetto: I've talked to all members of MOTU SRU
[23:18] <LaserJock> brandon and I are stepping down
[23:18] <LaserJock> everybody else is staying on
[23:18] <norsetto> LaserJock: ok .. staying for the sake of it or to actually do something?
[23:19] <LaserJock> actually do something
[23:20] <norsetto> LaserJock: ok then, we need 2 candidates, we have 2, what is the problem? Should we waste another 2 days trying to force somebody to step in?
[23:21] <LaserJock> norsetto: well, from what sistpoty said we may have 3
[23:21] <LaserJock> if we do indeed only have  2 then we should just go with that an move on
[23:22] <norsetto> LaserJock: for what I could see, we have stefan and scott, lets bless them and move on ...
[23:22] <sistpoty> s/f/ph/ ;)
[23:22] <mok0> norsetto: I agree
[23:23] <sistpoty> ok, /me tries to formulate a follow-up mail
[23:23] <LaserJock> norsetto: well, I just don't want to snub RainCT if he does want to run
[23:23] <norsetto> LaserJock: if RainCT wants to run we make it a team of 6 ...
[23:23] <mok0> Is there a limit to the number of members of SRU team?
[23:24] <mok0> norsetto: exactly
[23:24] <LaserJock> well, I don't have a particular problem with having another person
[23:24] <mok0> There's plenty of work
[23:24] <LaserJock> but I'm slightly concerned with just taking everybody who wants
[23:25] <LaserJock> as a general case
[23:25] <norsetto> LaserJock: can't we actually have some kind of backup in case somebody wants to leave in a hurry?
[23:25] <mok0> LaserJock: that's not the case here
[23:25] <LaserJock> so we don't want elections?
[23:26] <mok0> LaserJock: If the question is whether to accept another experienced motu, it's a no-brainer
[23:26] <norsetto> LaserJock: heck, I know I don't want scott, I know he is just going to refuse all my sru's! But seriously, do we have a problem with the candidates????
[23:27] <LaserJock> norsetto: that's not the point
[23:27] <LaserJock> mok0: well, actually I don't think it is
[23:27] <mok0> hm, well whatever
[23:27] <ajmitch> hi
[23:27] <LaserJock> mok0: it's easy to lower total productivity by adding people
[23:28] <LaserJock> sometimes it's better to have a smaller, tighter team
[23:28] <mok0> I don't think there's a point in looking for problems where none are to be found
[23:28] <norsetto> LaserJock: the point is, we need to have a working sru team. Do we have a working sru team right now?
[23:28] <LaserJock> I believe so, for the most part
[23:28] <tekteen> Hi. I am going to create my first package. Is there a specific way to make init scripts? I an not knew to bash scripting but want to know if there is a way most people format it (besides making it use start/stop/reload)?
[23:28] <mok0> There's a l.o.n.g backlog to process
[23:29] <LaserJock> mok0: I don't think there is, is there?
[23:29] <sistpoty> LaserJock: OOI have you given ACKs on irc as well, as I've looked at 2-3 SRU bugs so far, which were uploaded, but didn't show a trace of motu-sru acknowledging it?
[23:29] <sharms> What exactly is the motivation to pull a 'shotgun team forming' rather than giving the decided process it's time to complete?
[23:29] <mok0> LaserJock: 89
[23:30] <sistpoty> hi ajmitch btw
[23:30] <LaserJock> mok0: those aren't all ones needing MOTU SRU though
[23:30] <norsetto> LaserJock: well, from my personal experience from the other side of the barrier, the sru team was a 1.1 persons team
[23:30] <LaserJock> most should be already ack'd
[23:30] <mok0> LaserJock: no? They're in the teams bug-list
[23:30] <LaserJock> mok0: sure
[23:30] <LaserJock> mok0: we don't remove them
[23:31] <LaserJock> norsetto: well, if you feel things aren't going fast enough please email -motu
[23:31] <LaserJock> I've been working, though slowly, on some scripts to help MOTU SRU to work more effectively
[23:32] <LaserJock> it's not terribly clear right now what needs work so I'm working on that kinds of stuff
[23:32] <norsetto> LaserJock: no, I ask that if there are 2 people willing to do the job, let them do it and stop crapping around
[23:32] <LaserJock> norsetto: well, hang on a sec
[23:32] <sharms> this sounds like totally the right forum for that discussion
[23:32] <LaserJock> we do have procedures for elections
[23:33] <LaserJock> as I *said*, if there are 2 positions open and 2 nominees it's clear
[23:33] <LaserJock> but if there are 2 positions open and 3 nominees we should have a bote
[23:33] <mok0> tekteen: search wiki.ubuntu.dk, the info you're looking for is there
[23:33] <LaserJock> *vote
[23:33] <norsetto> LaserJock: we had a week, we have 2 candidates, where did we oversee the "procedure"?
[23:34] <tekteen> mok0: ok, thanks
[23:34] <mok0> LaserJock: nah, not worth it, just accept all 3
[23:34] <LaserJock> norsetto: I was told we have 3
[23:34] <LaserJock> mok0: ok, but that's just making stuff up
[23:34] <mok0> LaserJock: perhaps
[23:34] <LaserJock> if we have processes we probably should follow them, no?
[23:35] <norsetto> LaserJock: ok, so assuming we have 3, either we take all 3, we keep one as a backup, or lets get going with whatever election needs to be done
[23:35] <LaserJock> I don't have an a priori problem with having 3 new people, but that hasn't been approved by anybody
[23:35] <mok0> LaserJock: If no one is making a fuzz
[23:36] <LaserJock> that's no reason to not use processes
[23:36] <sistpoty> hm... I'd post the following as follow up: http://pastebin.com/m4241a17a
[23:36] <LaserJock> *or* we can get rid of those processes
[23:36] <sistpoty> anyone disagrees?
[23:36] <tekteen> mok0: I can not find it
[23:36] <mok0> LaserJock: but "I'm not against it, but what about the principles" is a not a good argument imho
[23:36] <LaserJock> mok0: why not?
[23:36] <LaserJock> it's about more than just me
[23:37] <mok0> tekteen, search for lsb init scripts
[23:37] <norsetto> sistpoty: I'm against extending the deadline, having a week was already long enough
[23:37] <LaserJock> just because I'm not against it doesn't mean that it should be done
[23:37] <mok0> tekteen: or google
[23:37] <tekteen> mok0: ok
[23:37] <sistpoty> norsetto: then we have only once candidate :(
[23:37] <sharms> mok0: exactly where in the code of conduct does it say "if nobody is making a fuss, disregard the process"
[23:37] <mok0> sharms: it doesn't :-)
[23:37] <sistpoty> s/once/one/
[23:38] <norsetto> sistpoty: oh man, we have two: \sh and scottk, both well within the time allotted
[23:38] <mok0> My p.o.v is, that there is plenty of work, so if there are more people than required, why not just say: yay!
[23:38] <LaserJock> well
[23:39] <LaserJock> having been in around for a while and in the MOTU SRU team I really do feel it unwise to just pile on as many people as possible
[23:39] <LaserJock> communication becomes more difficult
[23:39] <sistpoty> norsetto: actually not. the time was until today. I guess some people just got aware of it when I sent the mail (and that mail was the deadline, so other possibly interested people would be left out if not awake right now)
[23:40] <mok0> LaserJock: yeah, that's true
[23:40] <norsetto> sistpoty: yes, and wasn't it today that scottk volunteered?
[23:41] <mok0> I am satisfied as long as it is experience MOTUs in the SRU team
[23:41] <sistpoty> norsetto: yes, but after my mail. I mean we should be fair, maybe extent the deadline until tomorrow evening or so, so that ppl. from other timezones can also apply
[23:41] <LaserJock> mok0: I'd rather have a good working, smaller team who know what it's doing
[23:41] <mok0> LaserJock: OK, I understand
[23:42] <norsetto> I give up, trying to talk common sense here seem to be wasted, take all the time you want, ask all the people you want, I'm sick and tired having to wait weeks to have a bloody ack
[23:42] <mok0> norsetto: don't loose your spirit
[23:42] <LaserJock> norsetto: that has basically nothing to do with that
[23:43] <LaserJock> 1 person could handle MOTU SRU honestly
[23:43] <LaserJock> adding more people isn't the solution to waiting acks
[23:43] <norsetto> LaserJock: it has all to do with that, we loose weeks discussing about nothing when we need people to actuallky do something
[23:43] <LaserJock> norsetto: give me a list and I'll do them
[23:43]  * mok0 agrees with norsetto 
[23:44] <mok0> LaserJock: you retired, remember :-)
[23:44] <norsetto> LaserJock: I know you do, who do you believe the 1 in 1.1 was ?
[23:44] <LaserJock> not until I'm replaced
[23:44] <LaserJock> the problem is that MOTU SRU is not very able to track what needs doing
[23:45]  * sistpoty is sad to have started a heated discussion
[23:45] <LaserJock> sistpoty: no, this is good
[23:45] <LaserJock> I didn't realize people were feeling like MOTU SRU wasn't going fast enough
[23:45] <norsetto> sistpoty: don't be sad, discussions is all we are good at ;-)
[23:45] <mok0> sistpoty: it's not heated, we're just turning the arguments inside-out
[23:46] <LaserJock> norsetto: if you're feeling like things aren't going fast enough please let us know
[23:46] <LaserJock> the thing I'm really trying to work on is keeping things from falling through the cracks
[23:46] <LaserJock> that happens waaay to easily currently
[23:46] <RoAkSoAx> sistpoty, don't worry.. they like to discuss ;)
[23:46] <norsetto> LaserJock: well, I'm loosing you here
[23:47] <LaserJock> norsetto: part of leaving gracefully, IMO, is making sure things work properly when you leave
[23:47] <mok0> It is my feeling that waaayyy to many bugs were left in hardy when it was released. We _really_ need to get many many of those SRU'ed
[23:47] <LaserJock> mok0: it actually hasn't been all the horrible of a release
[23:48] <sharms> can we just market them as features and move on
[23:48]  * sistpoty just sent the follow up mail. so please object on the mailing list if it's not good *g*
[23:48] <tekteen> mok0: I still can not find it :-(
[23:48] <mok0> LaserJock: hmm, it got a pretty lousy press
[23:48] <LaserJock> although it sure is nice for a an LTS release to have more fixed  up
[23:48] <norsetto> LaserJock: we all appreciate that, believe me
[23:48] <LaserJock> mok0: oh man, you should have seen dapper
[23:48] <mok0> tekteen: sorry, it was in the debian wiki: http://wiki.debian.org/LSBInitScripts
[23:49] <tekteen> thanks
[23:49] <LaserJock> mok0: every release gets bad press. People like to poke apart the "big guys"
[23:49] <mok0> LaserJock: heh, but we've moved forward, and Ubuntu is in very high regard now
[23:49] <norsetto> btw, I do really believe that it would make sense to have an extra member on stand-by
[23:50] <LaserJock> so we work harder, fix what we can and try to make sure the next one is better :-)
[23:50] <mok0> LaserJock: hardy is seen as Canonical
[23:50] <mok0> s defining moment
[23:50] <directhex> i'd file a bug report about nspluginwrapper being completely broken, but there are so many bug reports up there i don't really see the point, it's not like nobody knows it's busted
[23:51] <LaserJock> norsetto: hmm, I don't really see a need for "stand-by" if we want another person just add them
[23:51] <sistpoty> mok0: it's sad to say, but there is some truth in Ubuntu==canonical from what I've experienced (or mayber canonical->ubuntu rather)
[23:51] <LaserJock> mok0: and from what I've seen Hardy has been a very good release
[23:51] <norsetto> LaserJock: well, thats my point but if you like a smaller team then should we just kick a good volunteer out?
[23:52] <LaserJock> norsetto: not necessarily, no
[23:52] <LaserJock> but we can always make the case that more people would make it better
[23:52] <mok0> sistpoty: yeah but that's because the press is focussed on sabdfl's involvement in Canonical and when he will break even
[23:52] <LaserJock> heck, why not have all of MOTU be MOTU SRU?
[23:52] <norsetto> LaserJock: I think we did that already
[23:52] <sistpoty> mok0: oh, yes. also the press != what's going really on (and my comment was rather focussed on the latter)
[23:53] <LaserJock> norsetto: exactly
[23:53] <mok0> LaserJock: because it is good to divide work between us
[23:53] <LaserJock> mok0: only at some point
[23:53] <sistpoty> damn, I've written to much c this week, can only make statements with boolean equations in them *g*
[23:53] <mok0> sistpoty: black'n'white, huh?
[23:54] <LaserJock> if you can cultivate a few people who do their job well, I'd say it's better than dividing work between lots of people who just do a bit here and there
[23:54] <sistpoty> mok0: heh
[23:54] <mok0> LaserJock: right
[23:54] <norsetto> LaserJock: look, motu-sru is like motu-release, we need a filter to filter the crap out (or at least discourage the peole if they are not very serious). But a filter needs to actually be a good filter, not just choke ....
[23:54] <mok0> but we're talking 5 vs. 6 here, it not that big a deal
[23:55] <LaserJock> norsetto: exactly
[23:55] <mok0> If we had 7, 8, 9 candidates, I think it would be good with a vote
[23:56] <LaserJock> well, the problem is, IMO, that that is not up for discussion
[23:56] <LaserJock> MOTU SRU is determined by a MOTU vote, as far as I can remember
[23:56] <mok0> LaserJock: norsetto's suggestion is not bad, that person number +1 is a suppleant
[23:57] <LaserJock> I'd rather just add the person
[23:57] <mok0> LaserJock: well, then we agree :-)
[23:57] <LaserJock> sure, but that's just my opinion
[23:57] <norsetto> LaserJock: then why are we discussing if we all agree on the same thing !?
[23:57] <LaserJock> because I'm saying we should follow process
[23:58] <mok0> norsetto: because we love the sound of fingers tapping across the keyboard...
[23:59] <LaserJock> either follow the process or change it, but just ignoring it when we're in a rush or it's inconvenient seems like a bad idea, IMO
[23:59] <mok0> LaserJock: You are right of course.