[19:40] <psyke83> kwwii, you there?
[20:10] <kwwii> psyke83: I am in Berlin at a Linux conference
[20:10] <kwwii> psyke83: but I am online for a bit if I can answer a question or so
[20:11] <psyke83> kwwii, ah I won't bother you then, I'll post my next modification on the ML, is that ok?
[20:11] <kwwii> psyke83: yes, please, do
[20:11] <psyke83> sure thing, and enjoy yourself
[20:11] <kwwii> psyke83: I'll include one from you next week
[20:11] <psyke83> kwwii, I'm just throwing them out as ideas, in case they're liked... no pressure
[20:12] <kwwii> well, the one I put in was the same kinda thing
[20:12] <kwwii> so we can try out something different without worry
[20:22] <psyke83> kwwii, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/attachments/20080531/c29553ff/attachment-0001.png
[20:23] <psyke83> it's quite a bit lighter and uses a "coffee" brown as the selected bg colour, and just a few other tweaks
[20:24] <psyke83> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-May/006464.html
[21:04] <kwwii> psyke83: I like the idea but I am afraid to make it too washed out (and therefor too little contrast)
[21:04] <kwwii> we can try something much lighter out and see what people say
[21:05] <psyke83> kwwii, when you say too little contrast, do you mean the background colour against the selected background colour?
[21:06] <psyke83> because too much contrast can also be bad (e.g. using firefox, dark widgets on a typical website)
[21:06] <psyke83> (a website with white background)
[21:07] <kwwii> psyke83: http://sinecera.de/current.png is where I am so far
[21:07] <kwwii> right, I can see that point as well
[21:07] <kwwii> really, we will have to test this out and see what people say
[21:08] <psyke83> sure
[21:08] <psyke83> by the way, judging from the screenshot, you're using "scrollbar_color"; that option is deprecated. Use "colorize_scrollbar" and set the boolean true, and it will inherit the selected bg colour
[21:09] <psyke83> unfortunately I've noticed some instability with the new engine, too
[21:09] <psyke83> it's from SVN, so that's to be expected
[21:13] <psyke83> kwwii, also, the "contrast" parameter has a different effect on the new engine, you may want to set it back to 1.0 if you don't like the separator lines
[21:15] <DanaG> Random thing: that reminds me... I actually do kinda' like rounded scrollbar ends... once I've changed the band-aid-ish bumps to lines instead.
[21:22] <psyke83> DanaG, sorry, what bumps do you mean?
[21:22] <DanaG> In Nodoka engine, actually.
[21:22] <DanaG> That's what I'm currently using.
[21:23] <psyke83> ah, ok
[21:26] <BHSPitLappy> psyke83, I feel the contrast is too low as well
[21:28] <BHSPitLappy> kwwii, I think the orange and brown clash in that shot
[21:28] <BHSPitLappy> just my .04USD
[21:28] <psyke83> BHSPitLappy, alright. The theme is color-picker compatible, so you can try tweaking the colours to your liking, and if you find a good combination you can post a screenshot
[21:29] <BHSPitLappy> maybe we could employ ColourLovers here
[21:29] <psyke83> BHSPitLappy, to be honest, I don't like dark themes because of too high a contrast, and I find it quite difficult to browse the net particularly, since we cannot control the background of webpages. Having a lower contrast makes it more tolerable
[21:29] <BHSPitLappy> I use a dark theme currently, and I agree about the web problems
[21:29] <BHSPitLappy> these are instances of bad CSS design, though, for the most part
[21:30] <BHSPitLappy> and I tend to let the webmasters know when I can
[21:30] <psyke83> BHSPitLappy, not at all, that's not the problem
[21:30] <psyke83> are Google going to change their white background for us?
[21:30] <BHSPitLappy> psyke83, when they explicitly set a backgorund but not a foreground, or vice versa, that's their problem
[21:30] <DanaG> I use this slightly-dark theme in Windows: http://www.wincustomize.com/skins.aspx?skinid=436&libid=7
[21:31] <BHSPitLappy> I thought that was the problem we were talking about
[21:31] <BHSPitLappy> ending up with black-on-black or white-on-white text
[21:31] <DanaG> s/in/when in/
[21:31] <psyke83> BHSPitLappy, ah no, sorry. That problem is mostly in non-conformant GTK2 applications, e.g. gnome-control-center, nvidia-settings and many more
[21:32] <psyke83> as long as the base colour is off-white, then the problem can be somewhat circumvented
[21:32] <BHSPitLappy> I especially see the problem on input forms online
[21:32] <psyke83> Ken chose an off-white base (grey) and so did I (light brown), so it's not a big deal for now. UbuntuStudio gets around this by having an off-white text instead
[21:33] <BHSPitLappy> e.g. The text will be set to #000000, and the background will be set to system default (not set at all)
[21:33] <BHSPitLappy> so they'll use my dark gray input bg and have me typing in black
[21:33] <psyke83> BHSPitLappy, right, I haven't looked into that yet, but certainly a lower contrast theme is needed in this case
[21:34] <psyke83> BHSPitLappy, do you know a site off-hand I can look at?
[21:34] <BHSPitLappy> the moral I'm seeing is that content producers (apps and online) by and large don't allow users flexibility in theming
[21:34] <BHSPitLappy> psyke83, google?
[21:34] <BHSPitLappy> or do you mean a really problematic site
[21:35] <psyke83> the google search page doesn't present any issues as far as I can see
[21:36] <BHSPitLappy> the login on my university's web portal is an example
[21:36] <BHSPitLappy> though the site is crap anyway
[21:36] <BHSPitLappy> https://my.unt.edu/
[21:37] <psyke83> where is the problem, for the EUID and Password fields?
[21:37] <BHSPitLappy> yeah
[21:37] <BHSPitLappy> the background there uses system defaults
[21:38] <BHSPitLappy> the text there is explicitly set to black
[21:38] <psyke83> that's not a problem, though, Ken and my version are already using black text for input boxes
[21:39] <BHSPitLappy> psyke83, it's a bug in their CSS
[21:39] <psyke83> BHSPitLappy, yes I understand, but it won't conflict with this specific theme, as we happen to use text for GtkEntry fields
[21:39] <psyke83> so, it won't look inconsistent
[21:39] <psyke83> *black text
[21:40] <BHSPitLappy> it should either fall to system defaults for BOTH colors, like Google does, or explicitly set both
[21:40] <BHSPitLappy> psyke83, it's not the theme's job to account for that problem, it's the content's
[21:40] <psyke83> ok, I'm just pointing out that it doesn't present a problem ;)
[21:41] <psyke83> and if you could apply a hack to enforce this behaviour, Firefox would need patching, not the theme or GTK
[21:41] <psyke83> maybe there's a greasemonkey script that already does it, who knows
[21:55] <DustinGraham> Trying to find a term for images that are basically black and white blocky stick figures (like the do not cross sign with the guy standing with the circle and the cross through it...)
[21:57] <BHSPitLappy> psyke83, huh?
[21:57] <psyke83> BHSPitLappy, to work around sites using bad CSS, I mean
[21:57] <BHSPitLappy> you could do it with a global Stylish theme, which is also merely transferring the responsibility away from its correct recipient
[21:57] <BHSPitLappy> I just sent an e-mail to the maintainer of that university page, it'll get fixed :P
[21:58] <BHSPitLappy> It's just stupid to set the foreground color for something on a web page and not set the background, or vice versa.  Complete illogic.
[21:59] <BHSPitLappy> also, that was weird.  (RE: DustinGraham)
[22:21] <psyke83> BHSPitLappy, I can notice a difference looking at a CRT screen vs LCD, so I darkened the theme a bit more, what do you think? http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/HumanMurrineDark3.png
[22:22] <BHSPitLappy> psyke83, it's better
[22:23] <BHSPitLappy> why do the tabs in the lower-left look messed up?
[22:23] <psyke83> and the orange? I'm not too sure about it
[22:23] <BHSPitLappy> TWF bug?
[22:23] <BHSPitLappy> I think it's okay
[22:24] <psyke83> hmm what's wrong with the tabs?
[22:25] <BHSPitLappy> if you're getting a palette from coffee, I'd look at lots of coffee pics for good complementing colors :)
[22:27] <psyke83> I wasn't necessarily aiming for a "coffee" theme ;)