[00:00] <norsetto> LaserJock: who is ignoring what? We had a week, we have 2 candidates, where was the process disregarded!?
[00:00] <mok0> LaserJock: I think norsetto and I just prefer to get things done, regardless
[00:00] <LaserJock> norsetto: I was told we had 3 candidates, that's all
[00:00] <norsetto> LaserJock: looks to me we like to create problems just for the sake of it
[00:00] <LaserJock> mok0: for sure, and I'd actually be up for changing the process
[00:00] <LaserJock> but again, it's not about my personal opinion here
[00:01] <norsetto> LaserJock: ok, assume we have 3, lets stop procastinating, lets call for a vote like it was in the process
[00:01] <LaserJock> it's about following processes that MOTU have agreed on
[00:01] <sistpoty> LaserJock: no, I wrote 2 1/2 (because its still unclear to me whether rainct actually volunteered or not. that's why I've asked him in the mail)
[00:01] <LaserJock> sistpoty: right, but 2 1/2 > 2
[00:01] <mok0> heh
[00:01] <ScottK> cody-somerville volunteered to.  He just accidentally sent it to me instead of the list.
[00:01] <ScottK> I suggested he resend it.
[00:02] <ScottK> So we're at 3.
[00:02] <mok0> Ah, so now we have 4 candidates for 2 places
[00:02] <ScottK> 3 1/2
[00:02] <sistpoty> ScottK: ah. thanks
[00:02] <LaserJock> we could also leave the 2 vacancies unfilled, btw
[00:03] <mok0> LaserJock: what would be the point of that?
[00:03] <norsetto> LaserJock: somehow, I have the impression you enjoy all this
[00:03] <sistpoty> unrelated: could anyone unsubscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors from bug #12715 (package in main nowadays)
[00:04] <pochu> sistpoty: sure
[00:04] <LaserJock> mok0:  well, to have a smaller, more efficient team team
[00:04] <sistpoty> thanks pochu
[00:04] <mok0> LaserJock: somehow, I don't see how smaller correlates with more efficient...
[00:04] <LaserJock> norsetto: actually, I don't much, but there are a couple bigger issues here
[00:05] <LaserJock> mok0: right now a lot of the time I think it's a problem of "oh, somebody else will get it"
[00:05] <pochu> Oh, you were talking about the SRU processes? please reply to the process thread! :)
[00:05] <mok0> LaserJock: only if it's a matter of decision-making, like right now, we are 4-6 people discussing the same arguments for an hour
[00:06] <norsetto> mok0: actually, its just the 3 of us, all the others are wisely doing something else
[00:07] <mok0> heh
[00:07] <LaserJock> I think we need to make sure we have people who can do code reviews
[00:07] <norsetto> oh well, as much as I enjoy the discussion and the company, I think its time I rejoin my better half
[00:08] <mok0> Ah, LaserJock, why did you have to quit? Look all the trouble you are causing...
[00:08] <LaserJock> norsetto: seriously though, send me a list and I'll look at them
[00:08] <LaserJock> I don't want things falling on the floor
[00:08] <LaserJock> SRU are very important to me
[00:09] <norsetto> LaserJock: don't worry, the last one you killed just 2 hours ago
[00:09] <LaserJock> and MOTU SRU are also policy makers
[00:09] <LaserJock> and have to deal with upstreams quite often
[00:09] <mok0> LaserJock: just to be curious, what are the premises that you judge a SRU request on?
[00:10] <LaserJock> It's basically a cost vs. benefit analysis
[00:10] <LaserJock> cost = possible regressions
[00:10] <LaserJock> benefit = what we get out of it
[00:11] <LaserJock> so low risk SRUs are good
[00:11] <LaserJock> or high risk but very important are also likely candidates
[00:11] <LaserJock> but to be honest, MOTU and contributors are doing a great job
[00:11] <mok0> so basically, it's a cost * benefit optimization problem
[00:12] <LaserJock> mok0: very roughly
[00:12] <norsetto> really gotta go, g'night all, have fun
[00:12] <mok0> norsetto: g'night
[00:12] <LaserJock> bah
[00:12] <LaserJock> too late
[00:12] <mok0> he was fast
[00:14] <mok0> LaserJock: well, my philosophy is not to worry about problems that have not yet arisen
[00:14] <LaserJock> mok0: well, but I have seen problems :-)
[00:15] <mok0> LaserJock: what kind of problems?
[00:15] <LaserJock> MOTU SRU is not terribly energetic presently, things easily fall through the cracks
[00:15] <LaserJock> I've also seen MOTU and SRU preparers not understanding the SRU policy
[00:16] <LaserJock> the policy itself also has some minor issues that still need to be taken care of
[00:16] <mok0> LaserJock: you mean, too much lax-ness in evaluating SRU's?
[00:16] <sistpoty> well, same for FFe's... motu-release also acts as some kind of filter there
[00:16] <LaserJock> mok0: as in, not evaluating
[00:17] <LaserJock> although I do think we could be a bit more in-depth in evaluation
[00:17] <LaserJock> we tend to reject when we're uncertain, which is better than letting them through
[00:17] <LaserJock> but if we were able to do thorough code-reviews and get good testing we'd be able to allow more
[00:17] <mok0> LaserJock: hmm..
[00:18] <LaserJock> we also need to look at bug-fix only microreleases
[00:19] <mok0> LaserJock: right'
[00:19] <LaserJock> MOTU SRU is likely to be given the ability to select packages who are allowed to have microrelease exceptions to the "minimal diff" rule
[00:20] <LaserJock> so you want people who can make good judgments doing that
[00:20] <LaserJock> I'm not saying anything against the current candidates
[00:20] <mok0> LaserJock: well, the distro somehow reflects the people doing the work
[00:20] <LaserJock> but I'm hesitant about "anybody who wants it is welcome"
[00:21] <pochu> there's a vote
[00:21] <pochu> so it's not exactly that
[00:21] <mok0> LaserJock: But otoh, you can't say "I only accept people who are exactly like me, but I don't have time to do it"
[00:21] <LaserJock> well, but we have nothing to "discriminate" against
[00:21] <LaserJock> mok0: no, that is for sure
[00:22] <pochu> It is those who volunteer AND the MOTU team approves
[00:22] <LaserJock> mok0: I'm just trying to tell you issues I see
[00:22] <mok0> LaserJock: what we want from you is that you pass on your experience. Perhaps you should write an SRU guide
[00:23] <LaserJock> mok0: yep, I've been thinking about that
[00:23] <LaserJock> as a way to make sure MOTU SRU members are on the same page
[00:23] <mok0> LaserJock: that would be awesome
[00:24] <LaserJock> we want to make sure that all members are applying policy consistently
[00:24] <mok0> LaserJock: exactly
[00:24] <LaserJock> however, I do feel that a vote for votings sake is not always a good thing
[00:24] <mok0> LaserJock: within the personal judgement
[00:25] <wgrant> mok0: Hi.
[00:25] <mok0> wgrant: hi! morning for you now?
[00:25] <LaserJock> mok0: exactly. For sure we want to trust MOTU SRU to make judgment calls. We just want to make sure people are on the same page
[00:25] <wgrant> mok0: Yep.
[00:25] <mok0> LaserJock: I agree with that
[00:26] <wgrant> .win 8
[00:26] <wgrant> Damn.
[00:26] <LaserJock> I think if we were able to hear candidates' views on SRU and what they'd like to do, etc.
[00:27] <LaserJock> it would give us a better basis to vote for people
[00:27] <LaserJock> I dislike voting based on just "oh I know that person, I'll vote for them" :-)
[00:27] <mok0> LaserJock: otoh, the motu system is trust based to a wide extent
[00:28] <LaserJock> yes, so we want to encourage people to have a *basis* for that trust
[00:28] <mok0> LaserJock: In an associative manner
[00:30] <mok0> LaserJock: I prefer to think  that MOTUs are all well-qualified
[00:30] <LaserJock> I'd rather know it
[00:30] <mok0> LaserJock: but that's not possible, unless you hire them all
[00:31] <LaserJock> and qualified for MOTU does not necessarily mean the best person for the job when it comes to leadership positions
[00:31] <mok0> LaserJock:  no
[00:31] <LaserJock> no, but I don't see anything wrong with giving people and opportunity to show us what they've got
[00:32] <mok0> LaserJock: I agree
[00:32] <LaserJock> personally I love it when people give their ideas for how to improve the team
[00:33] <mok0> LaserJock: the interesting thing is that it is an organism under constant evolution and development
[00:33] <RoAkSoAx> it is always good to have people giving ideas on how to improve things, rather than just criticize
[00:33] <mok0> RoAkSoAx: right
[00:34] <LaserJock> I think getting a "grilling" on what I have to offer a team is a great chance to really get a cohesive idea and make some plans
[00:35] <LaserJock> when it's just "hmm, I got voted it, now what do I do?" I think we miss a chance to help new members of the team
[00:35] <mok0> LaserJock: we could set that up... an IRC grilling of the various candidates...
[00:36] <wgrant> mok0: What did you want me about?
[00:37] <mok0> wgrant: ah, many hours ago...
[00:37] <mok0> wgrant: It was about python-numpy vs. numeric
[00:37] <wgrant> Aha.
[00:38] <mok0> wgrant: but I convinced myself that only numpy is relevant now
[00:38] <wgrant> Good - that's what I thought.
[00:39] <mok0> wgrant: both numeric and numarray are deprecated in Debian now
[00:39] <LaserJock> upstream anyway, only numpy is relevant
[00:40] <LaserJock> they swallowed up numeric and numarray into scipy-core which got renamed to numpy
[00:40] <wgrant> Good, good.
[00:40] <wgrant> We can finally kill the others off, then?
[00:40] <mok0> I would guess so
[00:40] <wgrant> That trio has been making numpy messy.
[00:42] <mok0> Perhaps we should check out all packages that depend on the messy bits
[00:45] <mok0> heh, my last merge closed 6 bugs
[00:46] <sistpoty> !merge
[00:46] <LaserJock> mok0: awesome
[00:47] <mok0> Well it's take me all day to finish it :-)
[00:47] <mok0> taken
[00:47] <LaserJock> that's ok, quality over quantity :-)
[00:47] <Neurostu> is this the place to come to get support for building .debs?
[00:48] <Neurostu> I just don't want to bother anybody here if it isn't
[00:48] <LaserJock> Neurostu: no, go ahead and ask your question
[00:49] <LaserJock> gosh, I really gotta get out of this place, I'm going to be running a MOTU School session if I'm not careful ;-)
[00:49] <mok0> he
[00:49] <mok0> Neurostu: you can usually get an answer in this channel
[00:50] <Neurostu> \http://mwl.pastebin.com/m33b46f73
[00:50] <Neurostu> these are the last few lines of an error I got when I tried to run $dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
[00:51]  * sistpoty is spamming ubuntu-motu@l.u.c todasy
[00:51] <sistpoty> -s
[00:52] <mok0> Neurostu: what's the /usr/local thing?
[00:52] <Neurostu> I'm not sure what to do, I'm building two packages and the first package compiled just fine.  The second package needs gtkglext-1.2 and gtkglextmm-1.2 and the first package, all three of which I installed
[00:53] <mok0> Neurostu: you _never_ should link against anything in /usr/local
[00:54] <Neurostu> Is that link defined in the source code or in the configure script?
[00:54] <Neurostu> sorry, I'm not the primary developer of the software, i'm working with him and he delegated the making of the debs to me
[00:55] <mok0> Neurostu: this is the culprit: /usr/local/lib/libgtkglextmm-x11-1.2.so.0
[00:56] <mok0> Neurostu: you need to Build-Depends on libgtkglextmm-x11-dev
[00:58] <Neurostu> ok, so I need to add that to the control file...
[00:58] <Neurostu> ok I'll try that
[01:01] <Neurostu> so If I install gtkglextmm from source will it still work? I tried adding that to the control and it says gives me a dependencies not met error, do I have to install gtkglextmm as a deb?
[01:02] <mok0> Neurostu: If you are building on your own system you need to install that package
[01:03] <mok0> Neurostu: if you use a pbuilder, it will pull in the build-depends automatically
[01:03] <Neurostu> so can do I install it with : make, sudo make install? or do I need to precompile it into a deb
[01:04] <mok0> Neurostu: you should use dpkg-buildpackage
[01:04] <Neurostu> ok I'll try to rebuild and install the lib that way
[01:04] <Neurostu> thanks
[01:04] <LaserJock> interesting, I don't seem to be getting mail today
[01:05] <wgrant> LaserJock: It's a conspiracy to get you to leave like you said you would.
[01:05] <mok0> Neurostu: with libgtkglextmm, just apt-get install it
[01:05] <Neurostu> right so last time I checked the hardy repositories don't contain the version i need
[01:05] <mok0> ah
[01:06] <LaserJock> wgrant: perhaps
[01:06] <Neurostu> yes... this is something we fought with on gutsy, we tried to plug version 1.2 for the hardy distro but we didn't speak loud enough i guess
[01:06] <mok0> Neurostu: hardy has      1.2.0-0ubuntu1 0
[01:07] <Neurostu> ahh.. your right ok I don't know how I missed that
[01:07] <mok0> Neurostu: apt-get install libgtkglextmm-x11-dev
[01:07] <Neurostu> done
[01:10] <just_a_nick> hello everyone. Im having trouble activating my openPGP key. Can someone help me?
[01:12] <santiago-ve> just_a_nick, which kind of problem?
[01:12] <mok0> just_a_nick: what do you mean "activating"?
[01:12] <LaserJock> well nifty, I think my @ubuntu.com has turned into a black hole
[01:12] <just_a_nick> I have followed the instructions in launch pad
[01:13] <just_a_nick> created one key in my machine
[01:13] <just_a_nick> and the uploaded it with: gpg --send-key key-id
[01:13] <just_a_nick> and gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-keys
[01:14] <mok0> just_a_nick:  you have to copy-paste it into your LP page
[01:14] <mok0> also
[01:14] <just_a_nick> i have copied my key, but it tells me it doesn't find it
[01:14] <mok0> just_a_nick: the _public_ key
[01:15] <just_a_nick> i see the text field were i copy my key in this format:  27E0 7815 B47C 0397 90D5  8589 27D9 A27B F3F9 6058
[01:15] <mok0> just_a_nick: what's your lp id
[01:15] <just_a_nick> AdrianAncona
[01:15] <Neurostu> if I run $sudo rm -rf /usr/local/lib  that will only remove the libraries that I have installed by hand right?
[01:17] <just_a_nick> is there a problem if the mail i gave to get my key is hotmail?
[01:17] <mok0> just_a_nick: I don't see you
[01:18] <just_a_nick> try soonick5
[01:18] <mok0> yes got you
[01:18] <just_a_nick> good ;)
[01:19] <just_a_nick> what do you think is the problem then?
[01:20] <mok0> just_a_nick: hmm
[01:21] <mok0> just_a_nick: when you copy your key, you need to copy-paste all of the content of it, not just the fingerprint
[01:22] <mok0> Neurostu: right
[01:23] <just_a_nick> but below the textfield i see: Example:  	 27E0 7815 B47C 0397 90D5  8589 27D9 A27B F3F9 6058
[01:23] <just_a_nick> what else should i copy?
[01:23] <Neurostu> ty
[01:24] <just_a_nick> it is only a text field, not a text area
[01:25] <mok0> just_a_nick: you need to export your public key in "armor" format
[01:27] <just_a_nick> can i ask how to do that?
[01:29] <just_a_nick> is it just using --armor with --send-keys?
[01:29] <mok0> just_a_nick:  gpg --export --armor <your keyid>
[01:29] <just_a_nick> thank you, let me try that
[01:30] <mok0> just_a_nick: to find your id, use  gpg --list-keys
[01:30] <mok0> just_a_nick: it's an 8-digit hex number
[01:31] <wgrant> mok0: It needs the whole fingerprint.
[01:31] <wgrant> Use gpg --fingerprint <your key ID>
[01:31] <mok0> wgrant: don't you need to copy paste your public key?
[01:32] <wgrant> mok0: No, it gets it from a keyserver.
[01:32] <wgrant> It only wants the fingerprint.
[01:32] <mok0> wgrant: ok
[01:32] <mok0> just_a_nick: listen to wgrant, he knows better :-)
[01:32] <just_a_nick> ok, thank you. But i have already done what you told me :P
[01:33] <wgrant> just_a_nick: What was the error?
[01:33] <mok0> uhuh
[01:34] <just_a_nick> was it wrong?
[01:35] <just_a_nick> i have already copied my fingerprint in the text field but i get an errror
[01:35] <just_a_nick> Launchpad could not import your OpenPGP key.
[01:36] <Neurostu> so when I get: dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for /usr/lib/libsomanetwork-1.0-0.3.so.1 (used by debian/tspikes/usr/bin/ratetimelinevis).
[01:36] <Neurostu> Does this mean that /usr/lib/libsomanetwork isn't found/
[01:37] <mok0> just_a_nick: ... and you sent your key to the keyserver?
[01:37] <just_a_nick> i used this line:  gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-keys
[01:38] <sistpoty> ScottK: regarding your reply... you might also want to read the irclogs (I just tried to pass on the info, not necessarily my opinion for all cases)
[01:53]  * sistpoty needs to go to bed now
[01:53] <sistpoty> gn8 everyone
[02:50] <wgrant> JanC: Please subscribe motu-swat and add CVE references to any future universe/multiverse security bugs that you file.
[02:50] <just_a_nick> Hello everyone. I have just uploaded my pgp key but i cant decrypt the mail launchpad sent me. Can someone help me?
[02:51] <persia> just_a_nick: How are you trying to decrypt it?
[02:51] <just_a_nick> my mail is a hotmail adress so i intalled firegpg
[02:52] <just_a_nick> i choose decrypt and write my 8 hex digits key. But it tells me it is incorrect
[02:52] <persia> just_a_nick: Try entering your passphrase, rather than your keyid.
[02:53] <just_a_nick> i also copied the message to evolution and tried to decrypt it from there, but the same
[02:54] <just_a_nick> i dont remember giving a passphrase
[02:54] <just_a_nick> is there a way i could have gotten a pgp key without one passphrase
[02:54] <just_a_nick> ?
[02:54] <persia> just_a_nick: Ah.  You really, really, really want a passphrase.  If you don't have one, it's not very secure.  You may want a new key.
[02:56] <just_a_nick> how do i get a passphrase? i used gpg --gen-key to get the key
[02:57] <persia> just_a_nick: It ought to have asked you for one during the key generation process.
[02:57] <just_a_nick> can i have more than one key for one mail adress?
[02:58] <persia> just_a_nick: You can, but most of the tools aren't designed for that case, and it will make your life more confusing.
[02:59] <just_a_nick> so i would have to register one new mail adress in launchpad?
[02:59] <persia> just_a_nick: Just to simplify troubleshooting, try encrypting something to yourself locally, and decrypting it.
[03:00] <just_a_nick> ok, ill try that
[03:00] <persia> If that really doesn't require a passphrase, you ought to be able to add one with `pgp --edit-key -k $(keyid) passwd`
[03:01] <persia> If it does require a passphrase, you at least can try things locally.
[03:01] <persia> In the worst case, assuming that you're not already using the key for various things, you could delete it, and create a new key.
[03:03] <just_a_nick> i have just created it
[03:03] <just_a_nick> how can i delete it?
[03:04] <just_a_nick> it worked with the passphrase of the new key i created. Thank you very much persia
[03:05] <just_a_nick> just one more thing. How can i delete the old key
[03:06] <persia> just_a_nick: Thinking about it, you probably don't want to just delete it.  You'll want to first revoke it, as you've posted to a keyserver.
[03:08] <just_a_nick> if you know the commands to do that i would appreciate if you told them to me. But if you dont know them by memory i can find them in google. Thank you very much for your help
[03:09] <persia> just_a_nick: I don't remember the details.  I think you start with --gen-revoke, but I don't remember how to publish the revocation (I've never done that)
[03:10] <just_a_nick> thank you for your help. Ill search the datails in the net ;)
[05:06] <Flannel> Anyone know why this channel has stopped being logged?
[05:06] <Flannel> or, hmm, looks like it was just for a few days
[05:07] <persia> Flannel: The goal is to keep logging up all the time.  Sometimes that doesn't work for various reasons.
[05:07] <persia> In general, look for the ubuntulog bot.  If missing, and there's no netsplit, ask for a bot wrangler to help in #ubuntu-ops
[05:08] <Flannel> persia: It looks like it was just missing for a few days.  but it's back now.  No big deal
[05:09] <persia> Flannel: I think it doesn't autojoin, and needs a prod whenever it drops off.  Typically just needs someone to notice it's gone.
[05:09] <Flannel> persia: makes sense
[05:26] <Amaranth> persia: We don't run ubuntulog
[05:26] <persia> Amaranth: No?  Who does?
[05:27] <Amaranth> not sure
[05:27] <Amaranth> --- [ubuntulog] (n=logbot@ubuntu/bot/ubuntulog) : log bot:: contact rt@ubuntu.com
[05:27] <persia> Amaranth: Hmmm..  Where ought someone ask then?  #canonical-sysadmin?
[05:27] <RoAkSoAx> maybe you should try to find out in #ubuntu-irc xD
[05:27] <Amaranth> persia: maybe
[05:28] <Amaranth> persia: it is run by someone in there, I guess
[05:28] <RoAkSoAx> persia, try in #u-irc
[05:28] <Amaranth> the logs used to be on someone's people url but i can't remember who
[05:28] <persia> Amaranth: fabbione
[05:29] <Amaranth> RoAkSoAx: #ubuntu-irc is useless for such a thing
[05:29] <Amaranth> persia: I would imagine he still runs it
[05:29] <persia> Amaranth: Maybe.  Hmm.
[05:31] <RoAkSoAx> here says that's run by canonical: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/Cloaks?highlight=(irc)
[05:31] <RoAkSoAx> ubuntulog (Canonical)
[05:35] <Hobbsee> it's not run by fabbione again
[05:35] <Hobbsee> if you want changes to it, you need to contact rt
[05:38] <lukehasnoname> hm
[08:55] <RoAkSoAx> anyone having problems configuring planet?
[13:03] <effie_jayx> how different is to merge if you use dad or mom
[13:03] <effie_jayx> ?
[13:04] <Lutin> not sure what you mean
[13:04] <effie_jayx> a friend of mine and I were working together
[13:06] <effie_jayx> he was using MoM (merges.ubuntu.com) I was using dad (http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php).  we used the corresponding grab_merge.sh  and we got that the folders extracted are different. while MoM reported  a whole new makefile that could not be merged, dad didn't cmplain about it.
[13:07] <Lutin> yeah, they don't strictly use the same method to determine what needs to be merged. what package is it ?
[13:07] <effie_jayx> kguitar
[13:11] <effie_jayx> Lutin,  another thing would be the folder, the name on the folder you can work on has the name of the packages in ubuntu. the onde in dad reflects the name of the package in debian. I got confused for a bit there.
[13:12] <Lutin> the name of the package ? uh
[13:12] <Lutin> ought to be the same
[13:12] <math_b> Hi, I'm trying to package something which provide a python library, should I use pycentral or pysupport ?
[13:13] <Lutin> effie_jayx: on the Makefile thing, it's MoM behaving weird
[13:13] <Lutin> the same applies for the folder name, actually
[13:14] <effie_jayx> Lutin,  weird acting from mom... I had usde the grab_merge from mom and did the merge for audacious-plugins and it was fine
[13:15] <Lutin> never said it was /wrong/
[13:16] <effie_jayx> Lutin,  sorry, didn't intend to say it was wrong... it was not familiar then
[13:17] <effie_jayx> Lutin,  thanks for the clarification
[13:18] <Lutin> effie_jayx: well, it's mostly that they do behave differently under certain circumstances, such as this one
[13:20] <Lutin> (and btw I think MoM is better than DaD in this particular case)
[13:22] <stani> ﻿math_b: What are you trying to package?
[13:22] <persia> effie_jayx: Just to add to your confusion, neither MoM nor DaD is complete: both have a separate set of implemented exceptions for oddities, depending on to whom any given broken behaviour was reported.  Regardless of which you choose (or if you choose neither), it is always good to look at the nature of the Ubuntu changes, rather than just merging according to the script.
[13:22] <persia> Sometimes things which do not show as conflicts end up causing issues, depending on the nature of the changes.
[13:22] <math_b> stani: git version of xcb-proto
[13:23] <effie_jayx> persia,  right. like in audacious, I am aware of the pulse audio changes so that helps a bit.
[13:23] <Lutin> persia: in this case it's a makefile that seems to be generated during the build
[13:24] <persia> Lutin: I wonder how that came to be considered as an exception to code around :)
[13:25] <effie_jayx> persia,  there is a whole new makefile from debian, and MoM just separates them into makefile.debian and makefile.ubuntu and dad doesn't make reference to a change in makefile (maybe he just took the whole file and repleaced the old)
[13:27] <Lutin> persia: well no version in the orig tarball, so we juste assume that it's a diff
[13:28] <JanC> wgrant: okay, I'll try to remember (and I didn't have the time to search for the CVE at that moment, but could have done afterwards)
[13:28] <JanC> wgrant: and why isn't motu-swat subscribed automaticly?
[13:29] <persia> Lutin: That makes sense.  I was more thinking about the merge problem that prompted the workaround in MoM.
[13:29] <persia> effie_jayx: Sure.  There are lots of reasons things like that could happen.  I'm just advocating being careful, and not trusting either of MoM or DaD to do the right thing completely (even when there are no reported conflicts).
[13:30] <Lutin> persia: what is weird is that it prints a warning - otherwise, it's rather clever, as the file is not included at all
[13:31] <hefe_bia> evand: Could you have another look at the debdiff for bug #223812? I know it has become more complicated - any hints on how to make it simpler are appreciated ;)
[13:31] <Lutin> for a reason I can't recall, it seems that I made the debian version override the ubuntu one in DaD
[13:31] <Lutin> which in fact doesn't change anything - you'll end up with it in the diff.gz
[13:31] <stani> ﻿math_b: I guess that is not really an ubuntu specific library. So it might be better to join Debian PAPT and do the packaging there. You will get probably more help on #debian-python for these specific questions.
[13:32] <math_b> stani: thanks
[13:32] <effie_jayx> persia,  thanks :D
[13:33] <persia> Lutin: Odd indeed.
[13:34] <Lutin> persia: acutally I think I made it behave this way just because of such cases - as splitting it in makefile.{debian,ubuntu} is irrelevant
[13:34] <effie_jayx> persia,  mind if I write about his in an email to mentors? I think I and others could benefit from this oportunity
[13:34] <effie_jayx> ?
[13:35] <persia> Lutin: That makes sense, although I'm of mixed minds.  I almost think it's worth highlighting, just in case it could cause an issue with the merge.
[13:35] <Lutin> persia: true, i didn't even bother writing a note
[13:35] <persia> effie_jayx: If you like, although I think the larger plan is to merge MoM and DaD (in-progress now that MoM is open source).  The taking care with merges is a good message, though.
[13:40] <wgrant> JanC: Why would we be? Launchpad has a single distro security contact - it doesn't look like per-component contacts are coming any time soon.
[13:40] <wgrant> JanC: Thanks.
[13:42] <JanC> I was just wondering why not, doesn't seem to be that difficult to implement if the distro component is known ツ
[13:45] <wgrant> JanC: But that would make sense.. maybe after LP 2.0.
[13:45] <Lutin> persia: hmm actually DaD is a lot less clever than that, I should work on it
[13:46] <persia> Lutin: Is it worth it?  I thought the two were merging?  Is that stalled?
[13:47]  * persia cheers LP 2.0: the release after which sensible fixes are considered
[13:47] <Lutin> persia: I don't know, as I only wrote the backend. better ask Adri2000 , as it's mostly UI-related
[13:47] <persia> Lutin: Oh, the UI is merging and not the backend?  I thought we were adding all the DaD quirk-handlers into MoM as well.
[13:48] <RainCT> last time I spoke with Adri2000 he said that Scott Remnant was reviewing his changes.. Haven't heard anything new sync then
[13:48] <Lutin> persia: I'd have to dive into the MoM code a bit more, but I'm not sure it has anything to learn to MoM backend-wise
[13:49] <Lutin> s/learn/teach
[13:49] <persia> Lutin: Ah.  I thought there was a set of quirk-handlers already in MoM that would be expanded.  Some of it (like maintainer-mangling) ought be relatively useful to put there.
[13:49] <persia> RainCT: When was that?
[13:49] <RainCT> persia: some weeks ago
[13:50] <Lutin> persia: ahh true, forgot about that on
[13:50] <Lutin> e
[13:51] <persia> Lutin: As much as I was unhappy with some of the details of implementation, I thought handling that was one of the ways in which the DaD backend excelled.
[13:51] <persia> (and it only broke for extremely rare cases anyway, specifically where a sync was indicated)
[13:53] <Lutin> ah, yes. the blank-diff thing. one of the things you can only avoid if you have the luxury of having a local debian mirror ;)
[13:56] <Lutin> completely unrelated ... would anyone know the rational for having NoDisplay=true in gok's .desktop ?
[14:03] <persia> Lutin: My memory was that it was considered a rare case that someone would want to launch it from the menu.  It generally would either be activated through System/Preferences/Assistive Technologies or not wanted at all.
[14:04] <Lutin> fair enough
[14:04] <Lutin> thanks, persia
[14:05] <persia> Hmm.  It seems to have moved.  It's now part of System/Preferences/Preferred Applications
[14:08] <Lutin> would that change anything ?
[14:09] <persia> Only how a user gets to it.  System/Preferences/Assistive Technologies has a button to launch System/Preferences/Preferred Applications anyway (at least in hardy).
[14:11] <Lutin> oh, okay
[14:11] <Lutin> (sorry for the stupid question. I don't use gnome)
[15:56] <sebner> Hobbsee: what do you think about syncing soundkonverter from now on? I'm asking because you are the last (self-package) uploader
[15:56] <Hobbsee> sebner: what was my change to it?
[15:57] <sebner> Hobbsee: build for ubuntu. https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/soundkonverter
[15:59] <Hobbsee> sebner: i don't recall being overly against it, but i've not looked at the debian source recently
[15:59] <sebner> Hobbsee: well debian never had it but since oktober 2007. So we can avoid double work. It's building and working fine so far.
[16:00] <Hobbsee> ah, nice.
[16:00] <sebner> Hobbsee: so I'll file a bug for you :)
[16:01] <Hobbsee> sebner: awww.  you could just do it :P
[16:02] <sistpoty> hi folks
[16:02] <sebner> Hobbsee: ^^, no I'm a exemplary contributor -> asking the last uploader :P
[16:02] <sebner> huhu sistpoty
[16:02] <sistpoty> hi sebner
[16:02] <geser> Hi sistpoty
[16:02] <sistpoty> hi geser
[16:02] <Hobbsee> sebner: ahhh
[16:03] <sebner> Hobbsee: hmm?
[16:03] <Hobbsee> sebner: sounds fine by me, i don't have any great attachment on it
[16:03] <sebner> Hobbsee: ah k, With I quick look I'd say nothing speaks against it and we can avoid the double work =)
[16:04]  * geser loves to be able to do give-backs for universe, less bugging of the buildd-admins :)
[16:04] <sebner> geser: shiny new button I heart? ^^
[16:04] <sistpoty> oh, can we do that nowadays, geser? cool :)
[16:04] <geser> sistpoty: yes, since LP 1.2.5
[16:04] <sistpoty> excellent!
[16:05] <geser> use pitti's buildd.py script if you want less clicking
[16:17] <RainCT> geser: cool. is that only for a certain group or any MOTU?
[16:25] <geser> RainCT: any MOTU for now
[16:26] <RainCT> geser: and where is that option?
[16:26] <jpds> RainCT: /+retry
[16:28] <geser> RainCT: go to the build record, e.g. https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdatetime-format-db2-perl/0.05-2/+build/583408 and click on "retry"
[16:29] <RainCT> ah, great :)
[16:41] <sistpoty> hm... I hope I set the SRU bug #204496 to the right state (fix committed). Is this correct after uploading?
[16:46] <geser> sistpoty: for the SRUs I did in the last few days pitti set it to "Fix committed" after accepting the upload
[16:47] <sistpoty> geser: ok, so what state should I put it in?
[16:48] <geser> I don't know. I'd leave it like it is now.
[16:48] <sistpoty> ok, thanks
[16:59] <mok0> Where should mozilla plugins go? /usr/lib/xulrunner/plugins??
[17:02] <RoAkSoAx> any bzr expert around?
[17:03] <persia> RoAkSoAx: Best to just ask.  Few are brave enough to paint themselves a target...
[17:04] <RoAkSoAx> ok let's see... i'm trying to add my blog to planet, but when i try to checkout it shows me an error similar to bug #230294 and i'm using bzr from the PPA
[17:11] <bluefoxicy> upgrades suck, you have to babysit them like Windows
[17:11] <bluefoxicy> upgrading 300 packages.  Come back 4 days later, it's 80 packages in and asking if you want to compare versions of /etc files
[17:11] <mok0> bluefoxicy: what are you talking about? You can't upgrade Windows
[17:11] <bluefoxicy> why hasn't the package manager continued on with other packages that don't depend on the package in question being upgraded, and come back to this?
[17:12] <bluefoxicy> stopping the whole process is a down right broken way to handle questions on things that would be non-blocking if they failed to update (or could just be skipped)
[17:13] <mok0> bluefoxicy: if you don't care about your config files, why don't you just do a clean install then?
[17:13] <bluefoxicy> mok0:  here's the thing, openSSL wants to update.  It stops the whole process with 2 hours left to go to ask me about updating a file in /etc
[17:13] <bluefoxicy> now, if you skip openSSL, everything works.
[17:14] <bluefoxicy> so, logically, if you continue to install other packages that aren't asking questions while waiting for the user to answer the OpenSSL question, everything should continue just fine
[17:14] <bluefoxicy> when the user wakes up 2 hours later, he'll have 5 minutes of questions to answer, rather than 2 hours of package installs to wait for.
[17:14] <mok0> I see your point
[17:15] <bluefoxicy> case in point, I have about 30% of an upgrade from last night to complete, which sholud take 45 minutes, had 2 hours to go about 10 hours ago but wanted to know about updating /boot/grub/menu.lst for memtest86+
[17:16] <bluefoxicy> this obviously had to be dealt with, but has no bearing on anything else
[17:16] <mok0> In fact, the install should never worry about changed config files, just leave them and copy the new ones with some extension.
[17:16] <bluefoxicy> I'm sure while it was waiting for an answer it could have upgraded totem
[17:17] <mok0> yeah, but the installer is not multithreaded
[17:17] <bluefoxicy> so... fix it?
[17:18] <bluefoxicy> my brain is too fried right now
[17:18] <mok0> The install stuff has been rehashed pretty good. I am sure there's a good reason for doing it the way it is now
[17:18] <bluefoxicy> mok0:  that doesn't mean the system isn't flawed
[17:19] <mok0> bluefoxicy: file a bug against the installer, then
[17:19] <bluefoxicy> it'd be more on the order of writing a spec
[17:19] <bluefoxicy> maybe when I wake up
[17:19] <mok0> Oh, you're asleep? :-)
[17:20] <geser> bluefoxicy: use the non-interactive mode of debconf the next time
[17:20] <bluefoxicy> geser:  I hit Upgrade in update-manager
[17:23] <mok0> geser, I am merging gnome-chemistry-utils, you've done it before I see
[17:24] <mok0> geser: what is the proper place to put the plugin these days, /usr/lib/xulrunner/plugins, and then with links to the various browsers?
[17:25] <RainCT> mok0: asac might be able to help you, too
[17:25] <mok0> RainCT: thanks!
[17:25] <RainCT> np
[17:26] <mok0> Lets see if he turns up...
[17:27] <Festor> hi all
[17:27] <Festor> about firefox 3
[17:27] <Festor> Does anyone know where the source file of firefox are the options of about:config?
[17:55] <mynyml> any chance i could get some help compiling a driver? I applied the patch mentioned at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xf86-input-evtouch/+bug/222164 but not quite sure what to do next
[18:15] <RainCT> OT, is there some command which reads stdin and puts it into the clipboard
[18:15] <andrew_sayers> RainCT: xclip
[18:16] <RainCT> andrew_sayers: thanks
[18:17] <RoAkSoAx> so anyone has had a problem bzr and planet ubuntu?
[18:38]  * sistpoty is off again. cya
[18:45] <asac> mok0: ?
[19:04] <mok0> asac: what is the proper place to put the plugin these days? Is it /usr/lib/xulrunner/plugins, and then with links to the various browsers?
[19:08] <sebner> mok0: see wiki page ;)
[19:08] <mok0> sebner: url?
[19:09] <sebner> mok0: I mean for the monkey icon ^^
[19:09] <mok0> sebner: ah
[19:10] <mok0> yay
[19:11] <mok0> sebner: nice
[19:12] <sebner> mok0: I'll tell him. If it doesn't win the contest (likely) maybe it can used for something else. dunnno
[19:12] <mok0> sebner: It can be used for another team
[19:12] <CarlFK> cinelerra/hvirtual$ dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -b
[19:12] <CarlFK> opps, posted too soon...
[19:12] <sebner> mok0: kk
[19:13]  * RoAkSoAx still cant add his blog to planet ubuntu T.T
[19:13] <asac> mok0: plugins should be installed in its own directory. e.g. /usr/lib/myplugin/libplugin.so
[19:13] <asac> mok0: and then linked to browser dirs
[19:13] <asac> mok0: use /usr/lib/xulrunner-addons/plugins/ for firefox support
[19:13] <asac> epiphany and other xul 1.9 embedders will automatically get that then
[19:14] <mok0> asac: so mozilla plugins?
[19:14] <mok0> asac: in xulrunner-addons too?
[19:14] <asac> only in xulrunner-addons/plugins yes.
[19:15] <mok0> asac: got it, thanks!
[19:15] <asac> mok0: and for apps using 1.8 in their individual dirs
[19:16] <mok0> asac: 1.9 is default in ii, right?
[19:18] <CarlFK> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -b;  dpkg-deb: building package `libguicast' in `../libguicast_2.1.0-1svn20060912ubuntu1_i386.deb'.  sudo gdebi libguicast_2.1.0-1svn20060912ubuntu1_i386.deb; "This package is uninstallable"
[19:19] <CarlFK> um... why not?
[19:21] <Lutin> CarlFK: missing dep ?
[19:21] <CarlFK> Lutin: maybe, but shouldn't it tell me that?
[19:22] <Lutin> doesn't it have a verbose switch ?
[19:23] <CarlFK> man gedebi - gdebi [package.deb]
[19:24] <CarlFK> gdebi -h shows a few more options, but no verbose.  but --apt-line might remotely help...
[19:25] <CarlFK>  sudo gdebi --apt-line libguicast_2.1.0-1svn20060912ubuntu1_i386.deb = This package is uninstallable
[19:25]  * CarlFK grumbles 
[20:20] <norsetto> howdy dowdy
[20:22] <geser> Hi norsetto
[20:22] <norsetto> hey geser
[20:23] <RoAkSoAx> anyone expert in bzr around??
[20:23] <RainCT> RoAkSoAx: you might have more luck in #bzr
[20:24] <RoAkSoAx> actually is more related to a Bug
[20:24] <RoAkSoAx> can't add my blog to plant, cause it shows and error similar to bug #230294
[20:25] <beuno> RoAkSoAx, update you version of bzr to the latest (1.5)
[20:25] <beuno> that will fix it
[20:25] <beuno> ppa: https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive
[20:26] <RoAkSoAx> beuno, it is latest version and shows this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/16005/ and the .bzr.log shows this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/16006/
[20:26] <RoAkSoAx> beuno, i used the PPA to install it
[20:26] <beuno> RoAkSoAx, you're using 1.5?
[20:27] <RoAkSoAx> beuno, yes i'am, the thing is that when installing it says that the package could not be verified... and i've tried doing it either on my laptop and desktop, and shows the same thing in both
[20:27] <beuno> yes, that's because of PPA, so it's normal
[20:27] <RoAkSoAx> beuno, ok, so still i got those errors
[20:27] <beuno> can you triple check with "bzr version"?
[20:28] <RoAkSoAx> roaksoax@roaksoax-desktop:~$ bzr --version
[20:28] <RoAkSoAx> Bazaar (bzr) 1.5
[20:28] <beuno> doesn't look like bug #230294 though
[20:29] <RoAkSoAx> first i thought it was a problem to upgrades,  cuz when upgrading my internet connection failed.. but then i tried it on my laptop... and shows the same error
[20:29] <beuno> RoAkSoAx, can we move this to #bzr?
[21:09] <lukehasnoname_> soooo
[21:12] <lukehasnonam2> ;_;
[21:12] <lukehasnonam2> I didn't think it would work; I expected it to be an admin-only event
[21:14] <stgraber> We trust our users not to break things, it's easier to fix things when that happen rather than limit the access
[21:15] <jpds> lukehasnonam2: +t is not set here.
[21:16] <lukehasnonam2> hm
[21:16] <lukehasnonam2> k
[21:51] <bluefoxicy> To those who have clicked "no" many times
[21:51] <bluefoxicy> you can stop now
[21:51] <bluefoxicy> Ubuntu automatically selects "yes" for you.
[21:51]  * bluefoxicy kills F-spot.
[21:52] <jpds> hmm
[22:49] <emgent> heya