[01:56] <fde> Hello, can someone please review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HoldingHowto#preview and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PinningHowto#preview and let me know whether they are ok?
[01:57] <fde> The latter however is not my work... I didn't edit it other than the Commentary section at the bottom... I just wrote the PinningHowto using the Debian wiki docs though... any modification necessary, or is that ok?
[02:00] <fde> Also, should the bottom be on another page, and linked to? It's really unrelated, but certainly would have better results than pinning would...
[02:01] <fde> I just saw that PinningHowto used to be utterly wrong, so corrected that info... but it'll really do bad things to Ubuntu due to what I describe at the bottom of that page.
[02:02] <seisen> for one they need to be here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ instead of wiki.ubuntu.com
[02:04] <seisen> disregard I'm retarded
[02:15] <fde> As far as I'm aware, you can't create pages on help.u.c ... you have to create it elsewhere, then get it approved?
[02:16] <fde> If that's wrong, it certainly should be moved.
[02:22] <Flannel> the community section is just like w.u.c, you can create/edit/etc freely
[02:22] <Flannel> its just the non-community section
[02:23] <Flannel> And, also, try to avoid using "HowTo" in the pagename
[02:23] <Flannel> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/PageCreation has creation guidelines
[02:24] <Flannel> (yes, Pinning HowTo already has Howto in it)
[02:34] <fde> Flannel: Ahh... well I was just following what the previous person had done... apologies...
[02:35] <fde> Flannel: I did find the Rename feature though... I can use that, can you think of things that are more accurate?
[02:35] <fde> things = titles
[02:35] <Flannel> fde: When you move it to help.ubuntu.com you can rename it
[02:36] <Flannel> Why does it need to be renamed?  I guess I'm confused about how the PinningHowto isn't about Pinning
[02:37] <fde> Flannel: The old PinningHowto described holding a package... which is an entirely different feature of apt.
[02:38] <Flannel> fde: Ah.  I see.  And, the backport comments at the end, if those are yours, should be put on the backports page (and just link to it
[02:38] <fde> Flannel: I don't see an option for moving the page... only rename and delete.
[02:38] <Flannel> fde: No, you don't move the page, you create a new one (h.u.c), and then delete the old one (w.u.c)
[02:39] <fde> Flannel: That's about creating a hackish backport yourself... still appropriate?
[02:39] <Flannel> !prevu
[02:39] <Flannel> Yeah, personal backports... gah. no bot
[02:39] <fde> The bots dead... I'll /msg ubot3
[02:39] <Flannel> 18:39 <Flannel> prevu
[02:39] <Flannel> 18:39 <ubot3> prevu is an automated, personal backporting utility. Check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Prevu for more details
[02:39] <Flannel> 18:39 <Flannel> backport
[02:39] <Flannel> 18:39 <ubot3> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
[02:40] <Flannel> Prevu might be a better page to link to.  It does all the building/depends/etc by itself
[02:40] <fde> Flannel: Ok... then I can remove that entire section, and just say "it is strongly suggested you avoid this, and use prevu"
[02:40] <Flannel> fde: shrug, its basically what prevu does.  Jst transparent to the user.  I'd just mention prevu.  But, I'm sort of wondering how pinning fits in with backports.  They're opposite things.
[02:41] <Flannel> Oh
[02:41] <Flannel> Because the pinning page has gone wonky and is now about intrepid.  I see.
[02:43] <Flannel> pinning *used* to be about downgrading a version in case the new one had issues. (or for whatever reason), someone has changed that to be crazy.
[02:44] <Flannel> Hmm, ah.  You've changed it.  I see.
[02:44] <fde> Flannel: Well... it just plain described an unrelated topic... this is what Pinning used to be: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PackageHolding#preview which is NOT pinning at all.
[02:45] <Flannel> You should add some sort of disambiguation at the top.  Since, many things still point to pinning, when they apparently should point to holding.
[02:45] <fde> PinningHowto is locked... I can't rename or lock it.
[02:46] <Flannel> Don't worry about the rename.
[02:47] <Flannel> Just make sure you put a paragraph at the top, "If you're looking for fix packages at an earlier version to get around bugs, you want Holding.. yadda yadda"
[02:47] <fde> How do I make a link to another page? [URL linkname] right?
[02:47] <Flannel> Just PageName since it'll be on the wiki
[02:48] <fde> Cool.
[02:48] <Flannel> Ah!  And HoldingHowto wil be fine, since you'll want a WikiName
[02:49] <fde> Flannel: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PinningHowto#preview should be fine, right? btw, even then, it wasn't pinning that was being performed, they were holding the package.
[02:50] <fde> Flannel: see man apt_preferences on the topic... also man dpkg ... and /hold
[02:51] <Flannel> fde: How is pinning different than holding though?  since apt-preferences mentions pinning to an arbitrary version
[02:51] <fde> (the / character performs a search on the subsequent string in anything that uses less)
[02:52] <fde> Flannel: holding is to package version... pinning is to dist
[02:52] <Flannel>  Pin: version 5.8*
[02:52] <Flannel>           Pin-Priority: 1001
[02:52] <Flannel> That's a version
[02:53] <fde> Flannel: Ok, so there are multiple ways to hold... and that should possibly be added to PackageHolding ... but dpkg hold doesn't use pinning. The old page didn't describe anything related to pinning at all.
[02:54] <Flannel> You're right.  I think it did in the past, since that page is where I originally learned about it.
[02:54] <Flannel> But yes, this currently does describe holding.
[02:54] <Flannel> since its using dpkg hold stuffs
[02:55] <fde> Flannel: Uhh, it's not letting me go back to PackageHolding?
[02:55] <Flannel> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PinningHowto?action=recall&rev=14
[02:55] <fde> Was it removed or something? I still have the code if I need to re-edit the page?
[02:55] <Flannel> see what it used to be
[02:55] <Flannel> Or, at one point.
[02:56] <Flannel> Looks like pinning used to be about pinning, and people have butchered it.  It wouldn't be a bad thing to have a single consolidated page abut pinning and holding, since they can both be used to accomplish the same thing
[02:56] <Flannel> so, someone looking to keep a package version, would read one page about both methods
[02:57] <fde> Flannel: Hmm... perhaps, like AdvancedPackageHandling ... and move lots of things there for people to read about...
[02:57] <fde> Flannel: Where did PackageHolding go though? it won't let me see  :(
[02:57] <Flannel> Just focus on this page for now, then we can rename later
[02:57] <Flannel> Where?  You mean HoldingHowto?
[02:58] <Flannel> You deleted it.  But, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HoldingHowto?action=info
[02:58] <fde> Flannel: I deleted that and put it in h.u.c/community/PackageHolding ... now it says it doesn't exist
[02:59] <Flannel> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PackageHolding
[02:59] <Flannel> works for me
[02:59] <Flannel> but, delete that page, add/edit/etc PinningHowto, then worry about moving it to a more proper name later.
[02:59] <Flannel> Since, that'll require a number of external things to be changed
[02:59] <fde> Weird... are you an admin or anything?
[03:01] <Flannel> No, I went to the first one, and it said "That doesn't exist, but this one looks similar" and clicked it
[03:12] <fde> Flannel: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PinningHowto#preview ?
[03:12] <Flannel> You know until you submit it, no one else can see them, right?
[03:12] <Flannel> Ah, but you have submitted
[03:13] <fde> Flannel: heh  :)
[03:13] <fde> Flannel: Hopefully it's complete now, pending rename... cuz I have to get going really soon... got a soccer game
[03:14] <Flannel> Um, well, personally, I'd like to see pinning go back to talking about *older* packages, since that's how we use the factoid.  But, I think it looks good, except your headings are different magnitudes
[03:14] <fde> Flannel: I just noticed that... changing so Pinning looks like Holding  :)
[03:15] <Flannel> Looks good for now though.
[03:15] <fde> Flannel: I take it any changes will now be mailed to me, or must I manually subscribe to maintain this page?
[03:16] <Flannel> fde: you must subscribe.  Just because you edit, doesn't auto-subscribe you
[03:16] <Flannel> Just hit "subscribe" at the top of the page
[03:16] <fde> Done... thank you for your guidance :)
[03:18] <fde> Ugh... now PackageHolding is back... and not letting me delete it... heh
[03:19] <fde> Requested removal via comment of change... hopefully someone will see it.