[00:03] lool: how can we roll -updates for diverged packages to hardy PPA? [00:03] do we need some official staging area to get some QA first? === Moot2 is now known as MootBot [01:00] good morning === asac_ is now known as asac [07:58] good morning === emgent_ is now known as emgent [10:33] asac: The staging area is going to be the ppa [10:34] asac: And we will then promote updates to the mobile archive [10:36] lool: I'm looking at bugs 215842 and 218251. In the latter, you recommend against my solution for the former. [10:36] Are you sure we don't want a conffile for that? I prefer conffiles as they can be purged, whereas maintainer-script generated files tend to stick around... [10:37] persia: hahaha, I was a good guy one month ago [10:37] persia: That comment was just to make sure that /etc/default/locale shouldn't be in a package [10:38] And I was bitten by this no longer than two days ago, because it's shipped in ume-config-common [10:38] Is it now? Then why is the bug with my patch still open? If that patch was applied, it ought be closed. [10:38] persia: if you run simple-vm-builder, it will hand waiting for a merge during the vm creation [10:39] dpkg -L ume-config-common| grep locale [10:39] /etc/default/locale [10:39] * Add a default locale for builds to support UTF8, etc. Patch by Emmet [10:39] Hikory. [10:39] -- Steve Kowalik Thu, 29 May 2008 18:20:32 +1000 [10:39] That's why I don't understand why 215842 is still open. That's from where the patch comes. [10:40] Probably an omission [10:40] persia: Would you like to fix shipping of /etc/default/locale? [10:41] What should happen is more something in the postinst like: if /etc/default/locale exists and sets a locale, leave it alone, otherwise create or set the locale [10:42] lool: Actually, I prefer it as a conffile: I just encountered your recommendation against it being a conffile, and thought it might be worth discussing in case we want to change it before we ship. [10:42] OK. How do we unset the locale later then? [10:42] (on package removal)? [10:42] persia: It can't be handled like a conffile in UME and not anywhere else [10:42] persia: Not sure whether we want to unset the locale [10:43] OK. I can see the case for not unsetting it. I'll push a fresh config with maintainer-script handling then. [10:43] thanks [10:44] persia: And if you like, you can verify that it breaks e.g. simple-vm-builder if you're not convinced about not shipping it as a conffile? [10:44] It would also break if you'd install ume-config-common on e.g. a regular system [10:45] It oughtn't break, just cause conffile-collision handling. [10:45] Yes; but it's supposed to provide either defaults or overrides, not change the way a file is handled :-/ [10:46] lool: Right. I'll fix it in the next hours :) [10:49] Ultimately, I suppose we're missing an "install" step where such a file would be created, just like /etc/hosts; this could be done with the current install.sh hacks [10:50] Do you think that is better than in ume-config-common? [10:51] Personally, I think ume-config-common is a bad idea, and stuff it does should be handled on install [10:51] (You say "ultimately", but I read it as "before this upcoming release") [10:51] Let's do it on install then. Where do we need to stuff the hook? [10:52] persia: I meant in a future cycle / world [10:53] persia: Doing it on install would mean rerolling a MIC; we could do it as it's still planned to move to the new sources.list [10:53] lool: Right. My worry is that if we do it wrong now, we're somewhat stuck. There's no purge part during the upgrade, and unmarking conffiles is an ugly hack. [10:53] StevenK: How are we on rerolling a MIC? [10:53] Yes, I agree it's ugly to fix this later on [10:54] persia: If you do it in install.sh, be careful that it might busybox sh [10:55] I think u-v-b has a good shell snippet of what's needed, but it might need to happen at the end of install [10:55] * persia needs guidance on where to put stuff for install.sh, but isn't worried about busybox vs. bash [10:56] persia: Grab MIC [10:56] platforms/common-apt has the initramfs stuff [10:57] Right. MIC. Thanks. [10:57] install.sh is called from platforms/common-apt/initramfs/usb and /cd if present in the initramfs === ogra_ is now known as ogra [11:03] persia, /etc/default/locale gets rewritten by gui tools on locale changes [11:03] a conffile wouldnt be clever here [11:04] ogra: Right, which is why it is being removed :) On the other hand, those GUI tools aren't in UME right now (see bug 218251) [11:04] but they might be in the future [11:04] -ENOBUGBOT https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+bug/218251 [11:05] ogra: Right. [11:05] i.e. in a netbook image there should be as many desktop tolls from the defaut install as possible imho ... else we have to maintain everything twice [11:05] *tools [11:06] ogra: Which reminds me, have you put together a meta for your netbook interface idea? [11:06] i.e. we should at least use the same backends .... [11:06] persia: The GUI tool is in customer builds though [11:06] * persia wants to test on the Kohjinsha, as neither Mobile nor Ubuntu is a good fit [11:06] well, the meta is ubuntu-desktop ... i need to put together a theme and gconf settings [11:06] the app selection is 100% ubuntu-desktop yet [11:07] ogra: Just gconf settings? That's enough to change the interface? Nothing new is required? [11:07] ah, well, devilspie to make metacity behave like matchbox ... and a two line devilspie config [11:08] and one little script hack to get the close button in the panel [11:08] ut the rest is gnome ui changes [11:08] *but [11:08] * persia imagines a seed depending on Ubuntu-Desktop and containing a single -settings package [11:08] well, -sessings and -theme [11:08] nd yes, that was exctly the idea :) [11:09] find the apps in ubuntu that misbehave and add proper gconf keys .... and have the world fixed in one go :) [11:09] Guys just to let you know the KVM version of RC1 is more reliable than the mic version [11:09] Does anyone have a ume-config-common-0.12-1-0ubuntu0 source package? [11:09] no desktop app maintenance apart from the fixes and patches which might even be able to go upstream [11:10] Upstream is good :) [11:10] :) [11:13] persia: I have it locally, I think [11:15] StevenK: Did it exist anywhere else? Can we get it back, or do we need to push -2? (Assuming that few people are expecting continuous upgrade to work at this point) [11:17] persia: -0ubuntu0? [11:18] lool: The PPA gave me a diff file exactly matching that which I want to revert against -0ubuntu0 [11:18] persia: The PPA has indeed [11:18] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/+archive?field.name_filter=ume-config-common&field.status_filter=any [11:18] (0.12-1-0ubuntu0) [11:19] Aha! Now, to delete the new one (and save uploading a paper bag)... [11:20] Hah [11:20] persia: So you don't need me to find it? [11:20] StevenK: Nope. lool knows LP well enough to save us both the effort :) [11:21] persia: Heh, fine === cprov is now known as cprov-lunch [11:34] The PPA archive-admin stuff isn't so bad, really. === davmor2 is now known as davmor2_away [11:35] persia: ehe, I will take it as a compliment ;) [11:36] * dholbach hugs cprov-lunch [11:38] cprov-lunch: If you're responsible, you ought :) [11:43] persia: cprov-lunch beeps on "ppa", guess how responsible he is :) [11:44] * persia ponders the difference for being responsible for a thing and being responsible for creating a thing [11:58] * persia seeks peer review of http://paste.ubuntu.com/16558/ as a solution for /etc/default/locale before committing [12:14] persia, does that check if the file exists and is pre-set somewhere already ? [12:15] (your patch doesnt seem to) [12:16] lool: are you on amd64? [12:16] ogra: Nope. This is run on the initialisation of the filesystem, prior to any packages. [12:16] ah [12:16] Is that safe? [12:16] looks fine imho [12:17] well, thats what i do in all my chroots as well ... does it run locale-gen soewhere with the matchng value ? [12:17] (it wont be pregenerated nowadays) [12:24] Hrm. I'll have to look for that. In previous testing, the mere existence of /etc/default/locale was enough to make most applications behave (as in use UTF8 rather than POSIX) [12:25] i'm not sure which package does the locale-gen today ... it used t be done in the locale package, then moved to language packs but might be in language-support now which you likely dont want in default mobile as it pulls in tons of extra stuff you dont need [12:28] ogra: Yeah. I think I'll just stuff in this file for now, as I believe pushing it at filesystem-creation time is better than pushing it at ume-common-config time, and has fewer negative implications. [12:29] Tracking down locale-gen can be done another day. [12:29] yeah [12:40] persia: thanks (and yes, I try to be responsible in both sense) === cprov-lunch is now known as cprov === persia_ is now known as persia [13:32] asac: I have an amd64 box [13:34] lool: ok, then the libflashsupport problem is not that bad (referring to mail) [13:34] asac: ogra questionned by 64-bits use as well [13:35] asac, what makes me curious is that lool says it works fine on debian with the debian version [13:35] (32 bit here) [13:36] no pulse? [13:36] debian version of what? [13:36] libflashsupport withour pulse ? would that make sense ? [13:36] libflashsupport [13:36] ogra: I'm using a custom install of libflashsupport on Debian/i386 (1.0~2219-1) and 1.9-0ubuntu1 on Ubuntu/amd64 [13:36] from -devel ^^^ [13:38] lool: a custom install? [13:38] can you post the build config for that please? [13:39] lool: what kind of system spec does the debian system you test on have? [13:44] (hold on, phone) === davmor2_away is now known as davmor2 [13:58] i am trying to add an icon to the grid desktop and the info on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UMEGuide/ApplicationDevelopment/AddingIconToDesktop does not seem to work [13:58] any ideas? [13:59] ian_brasil: Did you add OnlyShowIn=GNOME;Mobile; ? [13:59] no...where do i add this? [13:59] In the .desktop file [13:59] In the ,desktop file. [13:59] ah ok [14:00] Also, I'd recommend just putting it in /usr/share/applications, unless you have a good reason to do otherwise. [14:00] Ubuntu Mobile no longer only looks in /usr/share/mobile-basic-flash/applications/ [14:01] ok..i will update the wiki [14:01] ian_brasil: Thanks. [14:06] so it looks in /usr/share/application first ..then /usr/share/mobile-basic-flash/applications ...then anywaher else? [14:06] It looks in /usr/share/applications only [14:06] (and subdirectories thereof) [14:07] asac: I'm using the universe flashsupport on Ubuntu/amd64 [14:08] The custom install probably comes from the website of flashsupport for the Debian install [14:08] lool: ok. we should figure their build config then. what version? [14:09] 1.0~2219-1 [14:09] is that packaged already ? [14:10] (in the archive i mean) [14:10] Yes, not the smae version [14:10] it wasnt even in experimental and not clear if it would go in when i looked last time [14:10] On Ubuntu, I have 1.9-0ubuntu1 [14:10] and it ships a hard openssl dep iirc [14:10] libflashsupport | 1.9-0ubuntu2 | intrepid/universe | source, amd64, i386 [14:11] right [14:11] the code should be identical though ... both pulled from pulse git which didnt change since a year or so [14:11] lool: where did you get that custom package from? [14:12] there is an alioth repo [14:12] However there's also a new flashplugin-nonfree-extrasound [14:12] Sorry, I mean flashplugin-nonfree-pulse for pulse [14:12] yeah, seems they renamed it [14:13] It's split actually [14:13] I can't find flashplugin-nonfree-pulse though; only flashplugin-nonfree-extrasound which refers to it [14:13] lool: how do you test? [14:13] http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-pulseaudio/flashplugin-nonfree-pulse.git [14:13] lool: the test case is going back and forward on youtube until flash/firefox crashes (if you dont have nspluginwrapper) [14:13] asac: Nothing in particular, I open flash videos [14:13] lool: well. try the case above [14:14] go to youtube video, wait for movie to start, go to new youtube video, wait for start, go back + wait, go forward + wait [14:14] if you dont have nspluginwrapper in between + you are sure libflashsupport is loaded (e.g. strace) and you are sure that pulse is actually used by flash, then we might have a fix :) [14:15] i wonder how that should have magically appeared though [14:15] asac: how many times? [14:15] remember that crimsum uploaded some workaround/fixes to intrepid. maybe those are already in debian now. [14:15] lookig at that git repo there are no changes to lennarts code at all [14:16] asac, that was to get rid of the fixed openssl dep .... [14:16] lool: no idea. i never made it to 10 retries [14:16] nothing that would affect non encrypted playback [14:16] I see flashplayer in pavucontrol [14:16] lool: but the slower your sytem is the less likely you will hit the deadlock [14:16] ogra: well ... crimsun also claims that he fixed the crashes in his upload [14:16] I certainly crash my system from time to time on flash videos [14:16] asac, oh [14:16] my browser I mean [14:17] ogra: i pinged him multiple times for the last two week to get input on what he did, but he closed all bugs [14:17] never got a reply though [14:17] hmm [14:17] lool: try the testcase above ... if that doesnt crash your browser then its a good sign [14:18] ogra: remember that crimsun had a fix for it in hardy on also side, however that wasn't regression free. [14:18] maybe he uploaded to intrepid in the hope that those can be fixed during cycle [14:18] the upload i see in intrepid only changes one dep [14:18] s/also side/alsa side/ [14:18] * debian/control: Conflict with flashplugin-nonfree versions older [14:18] than intrepid's while allowing for backports (LP: #192888). [14:18] ogra: yes, but i think that he uploaded other packages in that batch [14:19] * New upstream beta fixes many crashers (most significantly [14:19] LP: #192888). [14:19] flash itself [14:19] yeah ... i could reproduce the crashes with flash 10 ... the version i tried at UDS [14:19] so that alone cant be it ... unless the current upload is more recent and indeed fixes things [14:19] lool: using flash 10 from intrepid? [14:20] No [14:20] and zero crashes? [14:20] 9.0.124.0ubuntu2 [14:20] (when doing the test?) [14:21] Certainly not zero crashes in general, but I've hit a least 8 times back/forward in youtube now [14:21] On the same video [14:21] not that bad [14:21] Note: one of my CPU is at 100%; it's a fast system, but could behave like a slow system in this case [14:22] lool: can you reproduce the crashes on ubuntu? maybe respin the debian libflashsupport on ubuntu? [14:22] lool: building? [14:22] Not building, just playing the video [14:22] It's the same on both computers since forever with flash [14:22] sure you are using flashplugin nonfree? [14:22] strnage [14:23] I got a crash the very first time I connected to youtube today, but since that... [14:23] is there some way to turn icons on or off?...like i want cheese icon to appear in gnome but not in hildon [14:24] ian_brasil: The OnlyShowIn key is the best mechanism to control that. [14:24] but will switch the item on/off completely [14:24] ogra: Selectively, so you can show or not show in e.g. GNOME or Hildon [14:25] the xdg spec could need an addition [14:25] asac: [pid 21542] open("/usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/libflashplayer.so", O_RDONLY) = 3 [14:25] [pid 21542] open("/usr/lib32/libflashsupport.so", O_RDONLY) = 35 [14:25] persia, yes, but ian_brasil wants to switch visibility of the icon without losing the entry i guess [14:25] right [14:25] lool: looks like nspluginwrapper? [14:25] the xdg spec doesnt provde such a feature [14:25] Hrm? How is a menu supposed to show an invisible icon? [14:25] that will guard you from crashes [14:26] lool: check whether npviewer is running while playing flash [14:26] it will falll back to the default icon in gnome [14:26] not sure hildon has such stuff [14:26] ian_brasil: Could you summarise this use case? I'm fairly familiar with the specs, but a little tired now... [14:27] ok...i will mail the list [14:28] asac: Hmm pavucontrol is failing on the amd64 box; probably due to old pa env vars, but new pa running [14:28] asac: Oh you mean I should remove nspluginwrapper? [14:29] lool: well ... if nspluginwrapper is used you wont see the crashes ;) [14:29] so on 64-bit its not an issue for us [14:29] not sure about debian, but if you ar e on 64-bit there too then you wont see the bug [14:29] and on i386 we'll catch it the same way in intrepid :) [14:29] I'm on i386 on Debian [14:29] hopefully [14:30] lool: maybe debian has nspluginwrapper on i386? [14:30] So I'm sorry guys, I'm a bit lost in what you wanted me to test [14:30] flash without nspluginwrapper on a ubuntu system using pulse :) [14:30] I just know I have been using libflashsupport (heck, I even hacked it for my previous job to make flash decode audio for us :-) but what crashes other people I don't know [14:30] preferably i386 [14:30] Ok; I tested that on Debian only [14:31] right, if debian doesnt use nspluginwrapper that sounds like a fix for us ... [14:31] lool: i just wanted to know whether you have nspluginwrapper on your debian install [14:31] but we dont seem to differ in code at all [14:31] which is weird [14:32] I don't have nspluginwrapper on my Debian install [14:32] because its strange that you dont see the crash [14:32] lool: but you installed flashplugin-nonfree from somewhere ... maybe that includes nspluginwrapper? [14:32] if no npviewer is running then you probably dont use it. and we should see why you dont get issues [14:33] On Debian [pid 27823] open("/usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/libflashplayer.so", O_RDONLY) = 60 [14:33] [pid 27823] open("/usr/lib/libflashsupport.so", O_RDONLY) = 50 [14:33] lool: you have a link to the debian source package you use? [14:34] I don't see any process with np [14:34] k [14:34] I use libflashsupport (1.0~2219-1) unstable; urgency=low [14:34] -- CJ van den Berg Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:29:54 +0100 [14:35] I think I got it there http://pulseaudio.revolutionlinux.com/PulseAudio [14:35] Ah http://pulseaudio.vdbonline.net/libflashsupport/ dropped [14:35] http://pulseaudio.vdbonline.net/ has flashplugin-nonfree-pulse_0.1~000.dsc [14:37] hmm [14:38] i think i am too tired ;) [14:38] I think the pulse impl was rewritten at some point, but IMBW [14:40] it was [14:40] by lennart -... back when he still was DD [14:40] but he didnt touch it since [14:41] He isn't DD anymore? [14:41] and now he works for RH keeping him busy with other stuff [14:41] he still is, but makes no use of it [14:58] pulse and avahi if I remember correctly isn't it ogra [14:58] thats what he did in debian, yes [14:58] now he works for RH, does rpm's and doesnt care much about debian packaging anymore [14:59] we talked a bunch in prague [14:59] :( [14:59] this is intersting -> cheese does not have OnlyShowIn but it appears in hildon ...others also do not have OnlyShowIn and do not appear..seems like some default list [15:00] ian_brasil, its always more than just the .desktop files, the .menu files have impact as well on what is shown and what not [15:00] ogra: There's a bit of a specialty implementation for Ubuntu Mobile... [15:01] i.e. if you disable an item in alacrate in ubuntus normal desktop it wont change the NoDisplay value of the .,desktop file but add a ~/.local/menus/*.menu file ecluding it [15:01] well, and then there are mobile hacks as well apparently :) [15:04] heya [15:04] err, sorry, its ~.config/menus/ [15:36] another queston..i want to write a status panel plugin in python to shutdown the system..this is possible right [15:38] tricky if you dont use the default desktop ... i.e. dont have a gdm socket to send the signals to [15:38] ian_brasil: For what conceivable reason would you ever want to shut down a MID? Aside from system crashes, I've never turned off any of mine for the past several years. [15:38] Hibernate is the key, and setting a short sleep timer. [15:38] or suspend :) [15:39] have a look at pm-utils for that [15:39] pm-hibernate and pm-suspend specifically [15:40] it is not a MID i am developing for! [15:41] Aha! In that case, yes, just hook into pm-utils :) [15:41] well, for shutdown/reboot you either need a DM to do it proper or add evil hacks to sudores or so [15:42] pm-utils doesnt provide hooks for shutdown/reboot iirc [15:43] ok thx [15:44] for gdm you would want: gdm-signal -h or -r [15:44] assuming you have gdm running with autologin [15:44] i want to do something like gnome with turn off reboot, suspend, hibernate [15:45] why not use the gnome one then ? ... [15:46] oh, wait you dont use gnome-panel/-session i guess [15:46] where the dislog is implemented [15:46] *dialog [15:46] i am using gdm :) [15:46] its easy to en/disable features in that dialog through gconf keys andchanges to gdm.conf [15:47] well, thats a start, try with the gdm-signal command [15:47] ok [15:47] it also offers interfaces to suspend/resume i think (calling pm-utils in the backend) [15:48] gdm-signal does not work..not even with sudo [15:49] i will reboot and try again [15:54] gdm-signal does not seem to work...does not return anything [15:56] hmm [15:57] i know thats what gnome-session uses internally [15:58] gnome-session/gdm-logout-action.c and gnome-session/logout.c use it extensively [15:58] (directly though, not through the gdm-signal binary) [15:59] i tried with xfce too and that does not work either [16:03] hmm [16:03] looks like it doesnt work here either [16:04] it comes from powermanagement-interface which isnt really maintained anymore (just as compatibility layer for pm-utils) [16:26] hmm, strace shows its using wrong strings to send to gdm [16:26] http://paste.ubuntu.com/16599/ === cprov is now known as cprov-out [17:21] ian_brasil, hey, the trick is to end your session, gdm-signal only queues your comand until the session has ended, then gdm executes it [17:29] ogra: cool..i'll try that [17:30] i just found that out by accident when my system suspended while i had only logged out :) [18:16] guys, can anyone help me choose an ubuntu-friendly smartphone/pda? I'm not overly concerned about running ubuntu/linux ON it (although that would be nice), just to be able to use it with my ubuntu laptop well. === Sciri is now known as Guest30607 === Sciri_ is now known as Sciri [23:12] anyone tried to use yelp in UME?