[00:03] <asac> lool: how can we roll -updates for diverged packages to hardy PPA?
[00:03] <asac> do we need some official staging area to get some QA first?
[01:00] <persia> good morning
[07:58] <dholbach> good morning
[10:33] <lool> asac: The staging area is going to be the ppa
[10:34] <lool> asac: And we will then promote updates to the mobile archive
[10:36] <persia> lool: I'm looking at bugs 215842 and 218251.  In the latter, you recommend against my solution for the former.
[10:36] <persia> Are you sure we don't want a conffile for that?  I prefer conffiles as they can be purged, whereas maintainer-script generated files tend to stick around...
[10:37] <lool> persia: hahaha, I was a good guy one month ago
[10:37] <lool> persia: That comment was just to make sure that /etc/default/locale shouldn't be in a package
[10:38] <lool> And I was bitten by this no longer than two days ago, because it's shipped in ume-config-common
[10:38] <persia> Is it now?  Then why is the bug with my patch still open?  If that patch was applied, it ought be closed.
[10:38] <lool> persia: if you run simple-vm-builder, it will hand waiting for a merge during the vm creation
[10:39] <lool> dpkg -L ume-config-common| grep locale
[10:39] <lool> /etc/default/locale
[10:39] <lool>   * Add a default locale for builds to support UTF8, etc. Patch by Emmet
[10:39] <lool>     Hikory.
[10:39] <lool>  -- Steve Kowalik <stevenk@ubuntu.com>  Thu, 29 May 2008 18:20:32 +1000
[10:39] <persia> That's why I don't understand why 215842 is still open.  That's from where the patch comes.
[10:40] <lool> Probably an omission
[10:40] <lool> persia: Would you like to fix shipping of /etc/default/locale?
[10:41] <lool> What should happen is more something in the postinst like: if /etc/default/locale exists and sets a locale, leave it alone, otherwise create or set the locale
[10:42] <persia> lool: Actually, I prefer it as a conffile: I just encountered your recommendation against it being a conffile, and thought it might be worth discussing in case we want to change it before we ship.
[10:42] <persia> OK.  How do we unset the locale later then?
[10:42] <persia> (on package removal)?
[10:42] <lool> persia: It can't be handled like a conffile in UME and not anywhere else
[10:42] <lool> persia: Not sure whether we want to unset the locale
[10:43] <persia> OK.  I can see the case for not unsetting it.  I'll push a fresh config with maintainer-script handling then.
[10:43] <lool> thanks
[10:44] <lool> persia: And if you like, you can verify that it breaks e.g. simple-vm-builder if you're not convinced about not shipping it as a conffile?
[10:44] <lool> It would also break if you'd install ume-config-common on e.g. a regular system
[10:45] <persia> It oughtn't break, just cause conffile-collision handling.
[10:45] <lool> Yes; but it's supposed to provide either defaults or overrides, not change the way a file is handled  :-/
[10:46] <persia> lool: Right.  I'll fix it in the next hours :)
[10:49] <lool> Ultimately, I suppose we're missing an "install" step where such a file would be created, just like /etc/hosts; this could be done with the current install.sh hacks
[10:50] <persia> Do you think that is better than in ume-config-common?
[10:51] <StevenK> Personally, I think ume-config-common is a bad idea, and stuff it does should be handled on install
[10:51] <persia> (You say "ultimately", but I read it as "before this upcoming release")
[10:51] <persia> Let's do it on install then.  Where do we need to stuff the hook?
[10:52] <lool> persia: I meant in a future cycle / world
[10:53] <lool> persia: Doing it on install would mean rerolling a MIC; we could do it as it's still planned to move to the new sources.list
[10:53] <persia> lool: Right.  My worry is that if we do it wrong now, we're somewhat stuck.  There's no purge part during the upgrade, and unmarking conffiles is an ugly hack.
[10:53] <persia> StevenK: How are we on rerolling a MIC?
[10:53] <lool> Yes, I agree it's ugly to fix this later on
[10:54] <lool> persia: If you do it in install.sh, be careful that it might busybox sh
[10:55] <lool> I think u-v-b has a good shell snippet of what's needed, but it might need to happen at the end of install
[10:55]  * persia needs guidance on where to put stuff for install.sh, but isn't worried about busybox vs. bash
[10:56] <lool> persia: Grab MIC
[10:56] <lool> platforms/common-apt has the initramfs stuff
[10:57] <persia> Right.  MIC.  Thanks.
[10:57] <lool> install.sh is called from platforms/common-apt/initramfs/usb and /cd if present in the initramfs
[11:03] <ogra> persia, /etc/default/locale gets rewritten by gui tools on locale changes
[11:03] <ogra> a conffile wouldnt be clever here
[11:04] <persia> ogra: Right, which is why it is being removed :)  On the other hand, those GUI tools aren't in UME right now (see bug 218251)
[11:04] <ogra> but they might be in the future 
[11:04] <persia> -ENOBUGBOT https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+bug/218251
[11:05] <persia> ogra: Right.
[11:05] <ogra> i.e. in a netbook image there should be as many desktop tolls from the defaut install as possible imho ... else we have to maintain everything twice
[11:05] <ogra> *tools
[11:06] <persia> ogra: Which reminds me, have you put together a meta for your netbook interface idea?
[11:06] <ogra> i.e. we should at least use the same backends ....
[11:06] <lool> persia: The GUI tool is in customer builds though
[11:06]  * persia wants to test on the Kohjinsha, as neither Mobile nor Ubuntu is a good fit
[11:06] <ogra> well, the meta is ubuntu-desktop ... i need to put together a theme and gconf settings 
[11:06] <ogra> the app selection is 100% ubuntu-desktop yet
[11:07] <persia> ogra: Just gconf settings?  That's enough to change the interface?  Nothing new is required?
[11:07] <ogra> ah, well, devilspie to make metacity behave like matchbox ... and a two line devilspie config 
[11:08] <ogra> and one little script hack to get the close button in the panel 
[11:08] <ogra> ut the rest is gnome ui changes
[11:08] <ogra> *but
[11:08]  * persia imagines a seed depending on Ubuntu-Desktop and containing a single -settings package
[11:08] <ogra> well, -sessings and -theme 
[11:08] <ogra> nd yes, that was exctly the idea :)
[11:09] <ogra> find the apps in ubuntu that misbehave and add proper gconf keys .... and have the world fixed in one go :)
[11:09] <davmor2> Guys just to let you know the KVM version of RC1 is more reliable than the mic version
[11:09] <persia> Does anyone have a ume-config-common-0.12-1-0ubuntu0 source package?
[11:09] <ogra> no desktop app maintenance apart from the fixes and patches which might even be able to go upstream
[11:10] <persia> Upstream is good :)
[11:10] <ogra> :)
[11:13] <StevenK> persia: I have it locally, I think
[11:15] <persia> StevenK: Did it exist anywhere else?  Can we get it back, or do we need to push -2?  (Assuming that few people are expecting continuous upgrade to work at this point)
[11:17] <lool> persia: -0ubuntu0?
[11:18] <persia> lool: The PPA gave me a diff file exactly matching that which I want to revert against -0ubuntu0
[11:18] <lool> persia: The PPA has indeed
[11:18] <lool> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/+archive?field.name_filter=ume-config-common&field.status_filter=any
[11:18] <lool> (0.12-1-0ubuntu0)
[11:19] <persia> Aha!  Now, to delete the new one (and save uploading a paper bag)...
[11:20] <StevenK> Hah
[11:20] <StevenK> persia: So you don't need me to find it?
[11:20] <persia> StevenK: Nope.  lool knows LP well enough to save us both the effort :)
[11:21] <StevenK> persia: Heh, fine
[11:34] <persia> The PPA archive-admin stuff isn't so bad, really.
[11:35] <cprov-lunch> persia: ehe, I will take it as a compliment ;)
[11:36]  * dholbach hugs cprov-lunch
[11:38] <persia> cprov-lunch: If you're responsible, you ought :)
[11:43] <lool> persia: cprov-lunch beeps on "ppa", guess how responsible he is :)
[11:44]  * persia ponders the difference for being responsible for a thing and being responsible for creating a thing
[11:58]  * persia seeks peer review of http://paste.ubuntu.com/16558/ as a solution for /etc/default/locale before committing
[12:14] <ogra> persia, does that check if the file exists and is pre-set somewhere already ? 
[12:15] <ogra> (your patch doesnt seem to)
[12:16] <asac> lool: are you on amd64?
[12:16] <persia> ogra: Nope.  This is run on the initialisation of the filesystem, prior to any packages.
[12:16] <ogra> ah
[12:16] <persia> Is that safe?
[12:16] <ogra> looks fine imho 
[12:17] <ogra> well, thats what i do in all my chroots as well ... does it run locale-gen soewhere with the matchng value ? 
[12:17] <ogra> (it wont be pregenerated nowadays)
[12:24] <persia> Hrm.  I'll have to look for that.  In previous testing, the mere existence of /etc/default/locale was enough to make most applications behave (as in use UTF8 rather than POSIX)
[12:25] <ogra> i'm not sure which package does the locale-gen today ... it used t be done in the locale package, then moved to language packs but might be in language-support now which you likely dont want in default mobile as it pulls in tons of extra stuff you dont need
[12:28] <persia> ogra: Yeah.  I think I'll just stuff in this file for now, as I believe pushing it at filesystem-creation time is better than pushing it at ume-common-config time, and has fewer negative implications.
[12:29] <persia> Tracking down locale-gen can be done another day.
[12:29] <ogra> yeah
[12:40] <cprov-lunch> persia: thanks (and yes, I try to be responsible in both sense)
[13:32] <lool> asac: I have an amd64 box
[13:34] <asac> lool: ok, then the libflashsupport problem is not that bad (referring to mail)
[13:34] <lool> asac: ogra questionned by 64-bits use as well
[13:35] <ogra> asac, what makes me curious is that lool says it works fine on debian with the debian version
[13:35] <ogra> (32 bit here)
[13:36] <asac> no pulse?
[13:36] <asac> debian version of what?
[13:36] <ogra> libflashsupport withour pulse ? would that make sense ? 
[13:36] <ogra> libflashsupport
 ogra: I'm using a custom install of libflashsupport on Debian/i386 (1.0~2219-1) and 1.9-0ubuntu1 on Ubuntu/amd64
[13:36] <ogra> from -devel ^^^
[13:38] <asac> lool: a custom install?
[13:38] <asac> can you post the build config for that please?
[13:39] <asac> lool: what kind of system spec does the debian system you test on have?
[13:44] <lool> (hold on, phone)
[13:58] <ian_brasil> i am trying to add an icon to the grid desktop and the info on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UMEGuide/ApplicationDevelopment/AddingIconToDesktop does not seem to work
[13:58] <ian_brasil> any ideas?
[13:59] <persia> ian_brasil: Did you add OnlyShowIn=GNOME;Mobile; ?
[13:59] <ian_brasil> no...where do i add this?
[13:59] <StevenK> In the .desktop file
[13:59] <persia> In the ,desktop file.
[13:59] <ian_brasil> ah ok
[14:00] <persia> Also, I'd recommend just putting it in /usr/share/applications, unless you have a good reason to do otherwise.
[14:00] <persia> Ubuntu Mobile no longer only looks in /usr/share/mobile-basic-flash/applications/
[14:01] <ian_brasil> ok..i will update the wiki 
[14:01] <persia> ian_brasil: Thanks.
[14:06] <ian_brasil> so it looks in /usr/share/application first ..then /usr/share/mobile-basic-flash/applications ...then anywaher else?
[14:06] <StevenK> It looks in /usr/share/applications only
[14:06] <persia> (and subdirectories thereof)
[14:07] <lool> asac: I'm using the universe flashsupport on Ubuntu/amd64
[14:08] <lool> The custom install probably comes from the website of flashsupport for the Debian install
[14:08] <asac> lool: ok. we should figure their build config then. what version?
[14:09] <lool> 1.0~2219-1
[14:09] <ogra> is that packaged already ? 
[14:10] <ogra> (in the archive i mean)
[14:10] <lool> Yes, not the smae version
[14:10] <ogra> it wasnt even in experimental and not clear if it would go in when i looked last time
[14:10] <lool> On Ubuntu, I have 1.9-0ubuntu1
[14:10] <ogra> and it ships a hard openssl dep iirc
[14:10] <lool> libflashsupport | 1.9-0ubuntu2 | intrepid/universe | source, amd64, i386
[14:11] <ogra> right
[14:11] <ogra> the code should be identical though ... both pulled from pulse git which didnt change since a year or so
[14:11] <asac> lool: where did you get that custom package from?
[14:12] <ogra> there is an alioth repo
[14:12] <lool> However there's also a new flashplugin-nonfree-extrasound
[14:12] <lool> Sorry, I mean flashplugin-nonfree-pulse for pulse
[14:12] <ogra> yeah, seems they renamed it
[14:13] <lool> It's split actually
[14:13] <lool> I can't find flashplugin-nonfree-pulse though; only flashplugin-nonfree-extrasound which refers to it
[14:13] <asac> lool: how do you test?
[14:13] <ogra> http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-pulseaudio/flashplugin-nonfree-pulse.git
[14:13] <asac> lool: the test case is going back and forward on youtube until flash/firefox crashes (if you dont have nspluginwrapper)
[14:13] <lool> asac: Nothing in particular, I open flash videos
[14:13] <asac> lool: well. try the case above
[14:14] <asac> go to youtube video, wait for movie to start, go to new youtube video, wait for start, go back + wait, go forward + wait
[14:14] <asac> if you dont have nspluginwrapper in between + you are sure libflashsupport is loaded (e.g. strace) and you are sure that pulse is actually used by flash, then we might have a fix :)
[14:15] <ogra> i wonder how that should have magically appeared though
[14:15] <lool> asac: how many times?
[14:15] <asac> remember that crimsum uploaded some workaround/fixes to intrepid. maybe those are already in debian now.
[14:15] <ogra> lookig at that git repo there are no changes to lennarts code at all
[14:16] <ogra> asac, that was to get rid of the fixed openssl dep ....
[14:16] <asac> lool: no idea. i never made it to 10 retries
[14:16] <ogra> nothing that would affect non encrypted playback
[14:16] <lool> I see flashplayer in pavucontrol
[14:16] <asac> lool: but the slower your sytem is the less likely you will hit the deadlock
[14:16] <asac> ogra: well ... crimsun also claims that he fixed the crashes in his upload
[14:16] <lool> I certainly crash my system from time to time on flash videos
[14:16] <ogra> asac, oh
[14:16] <lool> my browser I mean
[14:17] <asac> ogra: i pinged him multiple times for the last two week to get input on what he did, but he closed all bugs
[14:17] <asac> never got a reply though
[14:17] <ogra> hmm
[14:17] <asac> lool: try the testcase above ... if that doesnt crash your browser then its a good sign
[14:18] <asac> ogra: remember that crimsun had a fix for it in hardy on also side, however that wasn't regression free.
[14:18] <asac> maybe he uploaded to intrepid in the hope that those can be fixed during cycle
[14:18] <ogra> the upload i see in intrepid only changes one dep
[14:18] <asac> s/also side/alsa side/
[14:18] <ogra> * debian/control:  Conflict with flashplugin-nonfree versions older
[14:18] <ogra>      than intrepid's while allowing for backports (LP: #192888).
[14:18] <asac> ogra: yes, but i think that he uploaded other packages in that batch
[14:19] <ogra>    * New upstream beta fixes many crashers (most significantly
[14:19] <ogra>      LP: #192888).
[14:19] <ogra> flash itself
[14:19] <asac> yeah ... i could reproduce the crashes with flash 10 ... the version i tried at UDS
[14:19] <asac> so that alone cant be it ... unless the current upload is more recent and indeed fixes things
[14:19] <asac> lool: using flash 10 from intrepid?
[14:20] <lool> No
[14:20] <asac> and zero crashes?
[14:20] <lool> 9.0.124.0ubuntu2
[14:20] <asac> (when doing the test?)
[14:21] <lool> Certainly not zero crashes in general, but I've hit a least 8 times back/forward in youtube now
[14:21] <lool> On the same video
[14:21] <asac> not that bad
[14:21] <lool> Note: one of my CPU is at 100%; it's a fast system, but could behave like a slow system in this case
[14:22] <asac> lool: can you reproduce the crashes on ubuntu? maybe respin the debian libflashsupport on ubuntu?
[14:22] <asac> lool: building?
[14:22] <lool> Not building, just playing the video
[14:22] <lool> It's the same on both computers since forever with flash
[14:22] <asac> sure you are using flashplugin nonfree?
[14:22] <asac> strnage
[14:23] <lool> I got a crash the very first time I connected to youtube today, but since that...
[14:23] <ian_brasil> is there some way to turn icons on or off?...like i want cheese icon to appear in gnome but not in hildon
[14:24] <persia> ian_brasil: The OnlyShowIn key is the best mechanism to control that.
[14:24] <ogra> but will switch the item on/off completely
[14:24] <persia> ogra: Selectively, so you can show or not show in e.g. GNOME or Hildon
[14:25] <ogra> the xdg spec could need an addition
[14:25] <lool> asac: [pid 21542] open("/usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/libflashplayer.so", O_RDONLY) = 3
[14:25] <lool> [pid 21542] open("/usr/lib32/libflashsupport.so", O_RDONLY) = 35
[14:25] <ogra> persia, yes, but ian_brasil wants to switch visibility of the icon without losing the entry i guess
[14:25] <ian_brasil> right
[14:25] <asac> lool: looks like nspluginwrapper?
[14:25] <ogra> the xdg spec doesnt provde such a feature
[14:25] <persia> Hrm?  How is a menu supposed to show an invisible icon?
[14:25] <asac> that will guard you from crashes
[14:26] <asac> lool: check whether npviewer is running while playing flash
[14:26] <ogra> it will falll back to the default icon in gnome 
[14:26] <ogra> not sure hildon has such stuff
[14:26] <persia> ian_brasil: Could you summarise this use case?  I'm fairly familiar with the specs, but a little tired now...
[14:27] <ian_brasil> ok...i will mail the list
[14:28] <lool> asac: Hmm pavucontrol is failing on the amd64 box; probably due to old pa env vars, but new pa running
[14:28] <lool> asac: Oh you mean I should remove nspluginwrapper?
[14:29] <asac> lool: well ... if nspluginwrapper is used you wont see the crashes ;)
[14:29] <asac> so on 64-bit its not an issue for us
[14:29] <asac> not sure about debian, but if you ar e on 64-bit there too then you wont see the bug
[14:29] <ogra> and on i386 we'll catch it the same way in intrepid :)
[14:29] <lool> I'm on i386 on Debian
[14:29] <asac> hopefully
[14:30] <asac> lool: maybe debian has nspluginwrapper on i386?
[14:30] <lool> So I'm sorry guys, I'm a bit lost in what you wanted me to test
[14:30] <ogra> flash without nspluginwrapper on a ubuntu system using pulse :)
[14:30] <lool> I just know I have been using libflashsupport (heck, I even hacked it for my previous job to make flash decode audio for us :-) but what crashes other people I don't know
[14:30] <ogra> preferably i386
[14:30] <lool> Ok; I tested that on Debian only
[14:31] <ogra> right, if debian doesnt use nspluginwrapper that sounds  like a fix for us ...
[14:31] <asac> lool: i just wanted to know whether you have nspluginwrapper on your debian install
[14:31] <ogra> but we dont seem to differ in code at all
[14:31] <ogra> which is weird
[14:32] <lool> I don't have nspluginwrapper on my Debian install
[14:32] <asac> because its strange that you dont see the crash
[14:32] <asac> lool: but you installed flashplugin-nonfree from somewhere ... maybe that includes nspluginwrapper?
[14:32] <asac> if no npviewer is running then you probably dont use it. and we should see why you dont get issues
[14:33] <lool> On Debian [pid 27823] open("/usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/libflashplayer.so", O_RDONLY) = 60
[14:33] <lool> [pid 27823] open("/usr/lib/libflashsupport.so", O_RDONLY) = 50
[14:33] <asac> lool: you have a link to the debian source package you use?
[14:34] <lool> I don't see any process with np
[14:34] <asac> k
[14:34] <lool> I use libflashsupport (1.0~2219-1) unstable; urgency=low
[14:34] <lool>  -- CJ van den Berg <cj@vdbonline.com>  Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:29:54 +0100
[14:35] <lool> I think I got it there http://pulseaudio.revolutionlinux.com/PulseAudio
[14:35] <lool> Ah http://pulseaudio.vdbonline.net/libflashsupport/ dropped
[14:35] <lool> http://pulseaudio.vdbonline.net/ has flashplugin-nonfree-pulse_0.1~000.dsc
[14:37] <asac> hmm
[14:38] <asac> i think i am too tired ;)
[14:38] <lool> I think the pulse impl was rewritten at some point, but IMBW
[14:40] <ogra> it was
[14:40] <ogra> by lennart -... back when he still was DD 
[14:40] <ogra> but he didnt touch it since
[14:41] <lool> He isn't DD anymore?
[14:41] <ogra> and now he works for RH keeping him busy with other stuff 
[14:41] <ogra> he still is, but makes no use of it
[14:58] <davmor2> pulse and avahi if I remember correctly isn't it ogra
[14:58] <ogra> thats what he did in debian, yes
[14:58] <ogra> now he works for RH, does rpm's and doesnt care much about debian packaging anymore
[14:59] <ogra> we talked a bunch in prague 
[14:59] <davmor2> :(
[14:59] <ian_brasil> this is intersting -> cheese does not have OnlyShowIn but it appears in hildon ...others also do not have OnlyShowIn and do not appear..seems like some default list
[15:00] <ogra> ian_brasil, its always more than just the .desktop files, the .menu files have impact as well on what is shown and what not
[15:00] <persia> ogra: There's a bit of a specialty implementation for Ubuntu Mobile...
[15:01] <ogra> i.e. if you disable an item in alacrate in ubuntus normal desktop it wont change the NoDisplay value of the .,desktop file but add a ~/.local/menus/*.menu file ecluding it
[15:01] <ogra> well, and then there are mobile hacks as well apparently :)
[15:04] <emgent> heya
[15:04] <ogra> err, sorry, its ~.config/menus/
[15:36] <ian_brasil> another queston..i want to write a status panel plugin in python to shutdown the system..this is possible right
[15:38] <ogra> tricky if you dont use the default desktop ... i.e. dont have a gdm socket to send the signals to
[15:38] <persia> ian_brasil: For what conceivable reason would you ever want to shut down a MID?  Aside from system crashes, I've never turned off any of mine for the past several years.
[15:38] <persia> Hibernate is the key, and setting a short sleep timer.
[15:38] <ogra> or suspend :)
[15:39] <ogra> have a look at pm-utils for that 
[15:39] <ogra> pm-hibernate and pm-suspend specifically
[15:40] <ian_brasil> it is not a MID i am developing for!
[15:41] <persia> Aha!  In that case, yes, just hook into pm-utils :)
[15:41] <ogra> well, for shutdown/reboot you either need a DM to do it proper or add evil hacks to sudores or so
[15:42] <ogra> pm-utils doesnt provide hooks for shutdown/reboot iirc
[15:43] <ian_brasil> ok thx
[15:44] <ogra> for gdm you would want: gdm-signal -h or -r
[15:44] <ogra> assuming you have gdm running with autologin
[15:44] <ian_brasil> i want to do something like gnome with turn off reboot, suspend, hibernate
[15:45] <ogra> why not use the gnome one then ? ... 
[15:46] <ogra> oh, wait you dont use gnome-panel/-session i guess
[15:46] <ogra> where the dislog is implemented
[15:46] <ogra> *dialog
[15:46] <ian_brasil> i am using gdm :)
[15:46] <ogra> its easy to en/disable features in that dialog through gconf keys andchanges to gdm.conf
[15:47] <ogra> well, thats a start, try with the gdm-signal command
[15:47] <ian_brasil> ok
[15:47] <ogra> it also offers interfaces to suspend/resume i think (calling pm-utils in the backend)
[15:48] <ian_brasil> gdm-signal does not work..not even with sudo
[15:49] <ian_brasil> i will reboot and try again
[15:54] <ian_brasil> gdm-signal does not seem to work...does not return anything
[15:56] <ogra> hmm
[15:57] <ogra> i know thats what gnome-session uses internally
[15:58] <ogra> gnome-session/gdm-logout-action.c and gnome-session/logout.c use it extensively
[15:58] <ogra> (directly though, not through the gdm-signal binary)
[15:59] <ian_brasil> i tried with xfce too and that does not work either
[16:03] <ogra> hmm
[16:03] <ogra> looks like it doesnt work here either 
[16:04] <ogra> it comes from powermanagement-interface which isnt really maintained anymore (just as compatibility layer for pm-utils)
[16:26] <ogra> hmm, strace shows its using wrong strings to send to gdm 
[16:26] <ogra> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16599/
[17:21] <ogra> ian_brasil, hey, the trick is to end your session, gdm-signal only queues your comand until the session has ended, then gdm executes it
[17:29] <ian_brasil> ogra: cool..i'll try that
[17:30] <ogra> i just found that out by accident when my system suspended while i had only logged out :)
[18:16] <ailean> guys, can anyone help me choose an ubuntu-friendly smartphone/pda? I'm not overly concerned about running ubuntu/linux ON it (although that would be nice), just to be able to use it with my ubuntu laptop well.
[23:12] <bspencer> anyone tried to use yelp in UME?