[00:00] since you've not felt the need to cooperate with us, the irc council has decided to regain the channels in question as of 1800 hours US Central time tomorrow ( right now for everyone not in US CT ) [00:00] I don't think Freenode will allow that to happen with my pending GC request. [00:01] cody-somerville, will you answer this? Was it a staffer who changed it? [00:01] cody-somerville: we already have GCs for the channels. we'll have to approve you. [00:01] and frankly, we are unlikely to do so. [00:02] Xubuntu does not fall under the Ubuntu project's GC [00:02] registration [00:02] The same argument with #ubuntu-devel applies here. [00:02] don't doubt us. [00:03] cody-somerville, so xubuntu is not an Ubuntu goverened project? It has it's own govenance? [00:03] Mez: This isn't relevant. [00:03] Mez, It is an official derivative with strong collaboration with Ubuntu. [00:04] cody-somerville: I know that i am GC for #xubuntu, because it was on my GCF. [00:04] elky, You had no right [00:04] PriceChild, if it's not ubuntu governed - then it shouldnt be in the ubuntu GC namespace. The GCs are appointed by the CC.. [00:04] It was simply a mistake [00:04] cody-somerville, you didnt answer my question though. [00:04] Mez, I was trying to do but I'm ctrl+u'ing to answer other questions [00:05] elky_work, Freenode will not look at who or what has happened or been registered in the past. [00:05] cody-somerville, feel free to take your time - they dont all need to be answered at once [00:05] They will look and see that I am the project leader and that'll be that. [00:05] cody-somerville: sorry, but you're wrong. [00:05] cody-somerville: Unless your form is 'approved', it will not be taken into account. [00:05] That is my understanding at least. [00:05] PriceChild, I'll make a phone call in a moment to whatever number I can find and have it approved this evening if possible [00:06] cody-somerville: who will you call, if you don't mind me asking? [00:06] Furthermore, I will contact the CC and ask them to issue an injunction formally prohibiting you have taking any sort of action [00:06] nalioth, I'll have to look the contact information up. If it isn't openly available, I'm sure I know someone who can get me in touch with the appropriate authorities. [00:07] * elky_work chortles coffee all over her keyboard and monitor. [00:07] But I imagine there would be dire consequences for any of you on the council that are Freenode staff if you were to forcefully take over the channel with this knowledge. [00:07] cody-somerville, could you answer my question? [00:07] cody-somerville: the irc council voted [00:08] nalioth, It means nothing. You. Have. No. Authority. Over. Xubuntu. Channels. [00:08] Mez, Yes, it has its own governance. [00:08] cody-somerville, so it doesnt answer to the ubuntu CC? [00:08] Mez: the trademark issue remains though, which is why we have GC over the channels. [00:09] Trademark is owned by Canonical [00:09] And I'll call someone at Canonical if I have to [00:09] and i'll call Mark if i have to. [00:09] mneptok, ping [00:09] elky_work, So will I [00:09] elky_work, do you have his number? [00:09] Mez: no, but i have elmos in my phone. [00:09] Ugh. [00:10] cody-somerville: #xubuntu falls under the control of the CC? [00:10] elky_work, /msg [00:11] cody-somerville: ? [00:11] Seeker`, #xubuntu falls under the control of the Xubuntu project. [00:11] ok, lets start at the top [00:12] cody-somerville, does the control of the xubuntu project fall under the ubuntu CC [00:12] cody-somerville: as a member of freenode staff, I can confirm that #xubuntu falls within the control of the registered ubuntu project [00:12] xubuntu is an official derivative of ubuntu, yes? [00:12] aka, if the CC wanted you to take a direction, and you disagreed, would you [00:12] tomaw, I'm appealing that. [00:12] Mez, Yes. [00:12] Mez, We often do. [00:12] cody-somerville: the ubuntu project has decided that this control is granted to the irc council, so freenode will comply with requests from the registered group contacts at the request of said council. [00:13] cody-somerville: The CC have delegated responsibility for IRC channels under their control to the IRC council, as far as I can tell [00:13] tomaw, Ubuntu != Xubuntu [00:13] cody-somerville: So the IRC council are acting with the authority of the CC with regards to matters on IRC [00:13] tomaw, Hence whoever approved the GC made a mistake. [00:13] cody-somerville, then it falls under the CC - who have ultimate control over the project, who have appointed the GCs? [00:14] cody-somerville: (my opinion follows) The IRCC is not trying to take Xubuntu away from you, but it was their understanding that they had control over the Ubuntu namespace (including #xubuntu). Furthermore, I don't see what you gain by not allowing them access to the channel, besides gross alienation. [00:14] cody-somerville: tbh I know very little about ubuntu, however, my understanding was that canonical has some form of involvment with xubuntu also and that they control related channels [00:15] cody-somerville: as i recall, the GCF was originally approved before you were a blip on the Xubuntu radar. Care to explain that? [00:15] (this probably applies to kubuntu et al also) [00:16] tomaw, If Debian changed their DPL (ie. the old one got voted out), are you saying that the old DPL could say "Screw off" and keep the GC designation? [00:16] debian moved to oftc :) [00:16] tomaw, I'm well aware of that [00:16] This is a theoretical question [00:17] cody-somerville: The Community Council (and therefore the IRC council) have not been "voted out" of control of Xubunut [00:18] Seeker`, no idea what you're talking about [00:18] cody-somerville: Applying the same theoretical situation about DPL to Xubuntu [00:18] cody-somerville, what hes saying is that the CC are in control of xubuntu still, and that means they have the power to appoint GCs? [00:18] cody-somerville: xubuntu irc authority has not been voted out [00:18] Okay. I'll hold a vote right now. [00:19] cody-somerville: noone has ever said that you *own* the project- the CC still do [00:19] as it is still an official derivative [00:19] *sigh* [00:19] The CC does not *own* Xubuntu. [00:19] cody-somerville: oh, I see. You believe you have ownership of the x* project itself? [00:19] cody-somerville, you're willing to excommunicate xubuntu from ubuntu (meaning it'd have to be renamed? [00:19] Xubuntu is not going to be excommunicated [00:20] The only people not respecting the Xubuntu project is this council. [00:20] Whose integrity and intentions I highly doubt. [00:20] cody-somerville, but by "voting" to not be part of the Ubuntu community - youd be doing that [00:20] I'm not voting to be out of the Ubuntu community [00:20] cody-somerville: What do you think their intentions are? [00:20] cody-somerville: Do you agree that the CC has delegated responsiblity for IRC channels under their control to the IRC council? [00:21] cody-somerville: im going to have to ask you to comply with the request made by Mark to emma a few weeks ago, and please cease choosing who to respect within the community. [00:21] cody-somerville, if the CC chose to - they could stop xubuntu existing right? (under its current name) [00:21] elky_work, I'm not choosing to respect anyone selectively. [00:22] Mez, No. Only Canonical can do it. [00:22] cody-somerville: You are choosing not to recognise the authority of the IRC Council [00:22] Seeker`, Thats right I don't [00:22] cody-somerville: What do you think the CC is? [00:22] Seeker`, It isn't Canonical [00:22] * elky_work raises an eyebrow [00:22] cody-somerville, fair enough - so you answer to the chain of command that canonical sets forward for ubuntu yes? [00:22] Seeker`, IRC Council does not have authority over Xubuntu channels [00:22] cody-somerville: I didn't say what isn't it, it said what do you think it *is* [00:22] Omgz! [00:23] Canonical does not control Ubuntu!! [00:23] cody-somerville: who does control ubuntu? [00:23] Sarcasm/whatever isnt really appropriate for this discussion. [00:23] you're too ridiculous for me to waste any more work time on. [00:24] cody-somerville: okay, I think I have done enough fact-finding to sound mostly authoritive, if you're willing to listen :) [00:24] You people have some very incorrect assumptions [00:24] doesn't it seem to anyone else that this is going nowhere? Until the question of Xubuntu's position in the Ubuntu world is cleared up, this discussion is pointless [00:24] "The Ubuntu Community Council is the primary community (i.e., non-technical) governance body for the Ubuntu project. Members are appointed by Mark Shuttleworth and approved by a vote by the entire Ubuntu membership." [00:24] cody-somerville, check out http://www.ubuntu.com/ - I think you'll find they do [00:24] nickrud: Agreed. [00:24] cody-somerville: although if I just state one thing at once, perhaps you could confirm or correct? :) [00:24] tomaw, Maybe it would be best to do that in a private query so it doesn't get lost in the blur of this channel? [00:24] _MMA_, can I help? It might be worth taking it to /msg at the moment. There is a lot of traffic in here right now [00:25] if you wish, although I am sure people here will shush for 5-6 lines if we ask nicely [00:25] <_MMA_> Mez: No. Im watchng for now. [00:25] <_MMA_> *watching [00:25] tomaw, you have the floor [00:25] In #ubuntuforums-beginners, Flare183 said: !virus (this is kinda of a weird link) [00:26] cody-somerville: okay, so for sanity, you have no problem with the CC managing #ubuntu* etc as they see fit? [00:26] tomaw, Correct. [00:27] cody-somerville: you also agree that xubuntu is ultimately controlled by canonical? [00:27] No. [00:27] Okay, that at least makes the confusion here more clear to me. [00:28] Why do you contest that? (I'm a gentoo or debian user, I don't know too much about ubuntu politics and structure) [00:28] _MMA_, please read the topic. I'll let those involved decide whether to act on it [00:28] <_MMA_> Mez: Sure. Im sure enough people know me to let me hang around. [00:28] Mez: he's a /ubuntu/member/ [00:28] tomaw, I'm not aware I'm contesting that. Canonical would not say that they control Xubuntu. [00:29] _MMA_, please see /msg [00:29] cody-somerville: who does control xubuntu? [00:29] Seeker`, I thought tomaw had the floor? [00:29] Seeker`: please [00:30] sorry [00:30] cody-somerville: My understanding was that they fund x* and that it's ultimate control is with the community council? [00:30] Canonical does not fund Xubuntu. [00:30] The CC is not in ultimate control of Xubuntu. [00:30] Okay, so how does it relate to the ubuntu project at all? [00:31] tomaw, It is a derivative. [00:31] dealt with the edit above and issue resolved btw [00:32] cody-somerville: does canonical not host, nor provide build infrastructure to xubuntu at all? [00:32] tomaw, Xubuntu is derived from Ubuntu. We are considered an official derivative because we operate within the "Ubuntu Spirit" and collaborate strongly with the official Ubuntu project. [00:32] cody-somerville: completely without support from any other ubuntu/canonical product (other than probably grabbing updates from their repos etc) [00:33] Canonical does assist us but does not ask for any authority over the project in return. [00:34] mneptok, ping [00:35] tomaw, often it is individually employees of Canonical assisting us [00:35] cody-somerville: Then I guess we have at least some confusion on at least one, if not all sides [00:35] *individual [00:35] tomaw, The website clearly labels Xubuntu as a community derivative. [00:35] Again, I don't think this discussion is going to be productive right now. I'm not a council member, but I'd suggest tabling this, suspending the deadline and do some factfinding. [00:35] cody-somerville, I think elky_work meant the build infrastructure, distribution etc [00:35] nod, individual contributions are often very hard to contribute to either their employer or themselves etc [00:36] Mez, I'm well aware of that. [00:36] tomaw, It has always been recognized as the later [00:36] Mez: however, donated resources do not directly imply the donor has massive control over the project. [00:36] cody-somerville, that isnt an individual - I dont think the sysadmins/soyuz coders would agree with that [00:37] think sourceforge.net [00:37] canonical own the trademark on xubuntu [00:37] I'm sorry but are we able to note follow directions? [00:37] *not [00:37] I dont think this discussion is getting anywhere [00:37] Pici++ [00:38] tomaw, I told you we should have gone to private query [00:38] tomaw, they can revoke access to the services, stop distribution and revoke the trademark rights... surely that's control? if they can stop it existing in its current form under its current name? [00:38] (I'm not saying they would however) [00:38] Mez, Incorrect. [00:39] cody-somerville, what is incorrect? [00:39] Mez, They can not stop Xubuntu from existing. [00:39] cody-somerville: I woudlnt like to see this create a rift between Ubuntu and Xubuntu, Does Xubuntu have their own CC that we could bring this issue up to, or would the general CC be a better forum? [00:39] cody-somerville, in its current form, under its current name is what I said. [00:39] Mez, I disagree with that statement. [00:40] Pici: It will take 2 weeks to get to CC [00:40] Seeker`, and there is no need to hostilely take over the Xubuntu namespace in that time frame. [00:41] cody-somerville: I didn't say that there was. Howver, given the mount of tension at the moemet, it would be better to resolve it sooner rather than later [00:41] the irc council has _not_ revoked it's decision, and sees no reason to revoke it at this time. [00:41] cody-somerville: the way you have reacted here has only solidified our reasoning for this action. [00:42] cody-somerville: Please can you confirm who you believe controls the xubuntu project? [00:42] elky_work, yea right [00:42] elky_work, So me disagreeing with you gives you justification [00:42] Can someone scream CORRUPTION?! [00:42] Seeker`, I control the Xubuntu project [00:42] cody-somerville controls the Xubuntu project [00:42] cody-somerville: unilaterally? [00:43] There was an e-mail sent out to ubuntu-devel-announce [00:43] if disagreement caused corruption in the authority, then every police figure is corrupt since there'll always be a criminal to disagree with them. [00:43] please proceed to your local police station to inform them of this. [00:43] So you're comparing me to a criminal? [00:43] Brilliant. [00:43] cody-somerville: No, she is refering to an analagous situation [00:43] haha [00:43] no, im comparing your logic of corruption to the police system [00:44] cody-somerville: If I make a car analogy am I calling you a car? or a mechanic? [00:44] cody-somerville, substitute politician there, the concept still holds. [00:44] Seeker`: he's trying to find reasons to fight, that's all. [00:44] Ummm... no. [00:45] Do I *really* have to spell out how that analogy compares me to a criminal? [00:45] Who cares? We're not here to discuss that. [00:45] Pici, excellent reply. [00:45] it was the first scenario to my head. please proceed with logic. [00:46] elky_work, really, can we grow up now? [00:46] up to you. [00:46] * cody-somerville sighs. [00:46] * cody-somerville takes a deep breath to calm down. [00:46] cody-somerville: what's up homeskillet? [00:46] nixternal, The IRC Council has voted to take over the Xubuntu namespace. [00:47] and why is that? [00:47] because it's being mismanaged. [00:47] how so? [00:47] irresponsible removal of key redundancy figures from access. [00:47] cody-somerville: We already 'own' the xubuntu namespace. We have voted to retake #xubuntu and #xubuntu-offtopic after they were 'stolen' from us without permission. [00:48] They were not stolen. [00:48] by taking the namespace, will cody-somerville still have access to add people to the channel access list and control that? [00:48] yes, but we will also have the right to intervene in the absence of an op once more. [00:48] cody-somerville: i used the 's to indicate my looseness of application. Either way, you took control of them, when they were ours, without our knowledge or permission. [00:49] PriceChild, Explain to me how they were stolen. [00:49] It has not been suggested that all of cody's access will be removed. [00:49] Please explain to me how the channels were stolen? [00:49] cody-somerville: define 'stolen' please. [00:50] PriceChild: none of cody-somerville access should be removed, seeing as he is the MAIN driver of Xubuntu, I think he should control it honestly [00:50] elky_work, Thats the rationalization you people are using it [00:50] cody-somerville: indeed, i want you to verbalise the definition of 'stolen' [00:50] cody-somerville: we went over this yesterday, and you ended up telling me that you were not allowed to tell us who did the dirty deed for you. [00:50] nixternal: as said above, that subject has never arisen [00:50] There was no dirty deed. [00:50] no dirty need, nor a need to snitch on someone in case it wasn't done correctly either [00:50] chanserv doesn't just randomly change chanowns [00:51] Xubuntu channels have ALWAYS been under the Xubuntu project's control. [00:51] nixternal: we'd like to know where the process is breaking so we can avoid future reoccurances of this dilemma. [00:51] elky_work, The process is breaking with the IRC Council [00:51] elky_work: that's fine, but don't expect him to provide names [00:52] nixternal: all i've asked is for it to be confirmed if it was a staff or not. [00:52] nixternal: then we know if we can request and inquiry through freenode. [00:53] nixternal: if it was freenode, it's a gross misappropriation of process. [00:55] So what is the rationale for hastily taking the channel namespace over? [00:56] cody-somerville: I explained that in my proposition of a vote a few hours ago. Logs are available at irclogs.ubuntu.com [00:57] we probably wouldnt have bothered if it were not for the dangerous mismanagment of access. [00:57] I also think 'hastily' is an unfair term for the situation. We have given you ample opportunity to explain what has happenned, so we can sort things out, we are even giving you more. [00:57] There was no dangerous mismanagement of access. [00:57] Xubuntu runs smoothly. [00:57] It hardly ever needs op actio [00:57] libervisco has quit (""How fortunate for leaders that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler") nice part message [00:57] *action [00:58] cody-somerville: #ubuntu was like that at one point too. [00:58] things change [00:59] And you think it'll become a problem before the next CC meeting? [01:00] it could. [01:00] You honestly are willing to see this blow up instead of waiting? [01:00] Blow up? [01:00] cody-somerville: depends, are you honestly willing to blow it up instead of waiting? [01:00] cody-somerville: your newfound management of the channel has already caused problems. (Something we've also already discussed) [01:00] PriceChild, It did not cause problems. [01:01] cody-somerville: The Community Council has delegated the responsibility of managing ubuntu's irc presence to the irc council. The council sees no reason to ask the cc for help because of this and has made a decision. [01:01] I trump that delegation. [01:02] please dont make me chortle coffee again. [01:02] cody-somerville: who "owned" the project before you took control? [01:02] If the CC did or did not give that authority, I am now withdrawing it [01:02] Seeker`, They did not own it [01:02] Jani Monoses founded Xubuntu [01:02] cody-somerville: who *did* [01:02] Jani gave it to Lionel [01:02] Lionel gave it to me after I was voted in by the community [01:02] We went through this process publicly [01:03] It was all announced to mailing lists [01:03] Endorsed by the appropriate folks [01:03] cody-somerville: Who are the "appropriate folks"? [01:04] it rather scares me that the project is being 'given'... [01:04] there really should be a #ubuntu-politics channel for this [01:04] bazhang: no, there should not. [01:05] cody-somerville: You do not have the authority to revoke our authority. Only the CC (or something higher?) could do that. [01:05] this is going nowhere clearly. [01:06] The issue here is not who "should" manage channels, ircc or project. [01:06] This is completely and utterly unacceptable. [01:07] It is that cody-somerville has gained the control of channels, 'stolen' even, from their previous owner, the irc council, without their permission or knowledge. He has then miss-managed the channels. This is why the IRCC took a vote earlier today. [01:07] elky_work: I saw something about a decision on this, I am just wondering where the decision came from? I am kind of lost trying to follow this [01:07] PriceChild, All very incorrect. [01:07] My question has nothing to do with Xubuntu, but rather with processes between Freenode and the IRCC: When asked why you would not disclose who gave you the rights to channel contact, you responded "Pricey, Because I've been instructed not to disclose that information." This is a serious breakdown in protocol. [01:07] This council is corrupt. [01:07] cody-somerville: they are not tryingf to take over control of the channel from you. They are trying to be marked as owner so that, if anything happens to you, or whoever else may be leader of the xubuntu community, there is a way of managing the channel until a replacement can be found [01:08] There is no need to do that at this time [01:08] PriceChild: is that IRCC vote published anywhere for everyone to read? [01:08] elky_work: nevermind that, I found out :) [01:08] nixternal: this channel is logged [01:08] nixternal: irclogs.ubuntu.com (a couple of hours ago) [01:08] roger that [01:08] nixternal: the vote on whether to take ownership of the channel? [01:08] nixternal: elky, myself and nal were present, all voted in favour [01:08] nixternal: 23:39 BST [01:08] actually, I was wondering if the IRCC meetings were public, obviously they are and I just missed it [01:08] go figure [01:08] 22:39 UTC [01:09] how man are on the IRCC? [01:09] nixternal: it was a bit impromptu [01:09] nixternal: 4 [01:09] nixternal: nalioth, elky_work PriceChild and LjL [01:09] hrmm, you need 1 more for a quorum [01:09] nixternal: nalioth, PriceChild and elky_work all voted +1 [01:09] nixternal: we had 3 out of 4.. [01:09] nixternal: Ljl could not have overturned the decision [01:10] that I understand, but I am saying, an even amount allows for tied votes... [01:10] nixternal: There were oringinally 5, but seveas resigned. [01:10] ahh ya, that's right [01:10] And that spot has not be refilled yet. [01:10] nixternal: In this case, there was not a tied vote though [01:10] honestly, that spot should be filled prior to the council making votes...that's just the way it is with every other council in the community [01:10] nixternal: and if the final member of the council was here, they would not have been able to ccause a tied vote [01:11] nixternal: yep, that is an issue and something that needs to be resolved. [01:11] nixternal: With 5 people on the council, there would have been no way of a "no" majority [01:11] in this instance you are correct, I am not denying that or disputing it...was just providin' a lil fyi [01:11] And we agree :) [01:11] nixternal: fair enough [01:11] nixternal: we are aware :) [01:11] * nixternal goes up and reads [01:11] never read the output from one before that I can remember [01:16] uh, did anyone see that autorem in offtopic? [01:17] Pici: yeah... [01:20] Pici: I'm guessing there were big problems with a "jesus" in the past [01:22] I see the autorem, but I dont know where it got that kick reason from. [01:23] I suspect it was a reson set by whoever set the autoban [01:38] Seeker`: there was a period where there were multiple trolls matching *jesus*!*@* [01:39] *nods* [01:40] ompaul set the autorem out of desperation as much as anything, but it's probably worth considering lifting on a trial basis. i'll leave that for paul to decide though [01:41] yeah, I can understand that [02:37] Jack_Sparrow: where in the world are you from? [02:37] Not this world.... Why [02:37] you always seem to be online [02:37] :) [02:38] Yea.. I get that alot [02:38] how many hours of sleep do you get a night? [02:38] I dont sleep much [02:38] I nap here and there [02:38] :/ [02:38] Seriously [02:39] An hour or two here and there [02:39] ouch [03:16] Jack_Sparrow travers is someone you know? [03:17] yep, he has been banned by me before.. [03:17] figured something like that [03:18] look at his addy.. you will probably recognize it [03:18] Apparently an OpenBSD fan... [03:18] no, I don't even try to remember that stuff [03:19] : [03:19] I agree [03:19] I already unbanned him.. but I expect the same trollish behavior again [03:19] You did? [03:19] so? leave the ban then. [03:19] yep [03:19] I truly believe I have better things to keep in my head, that's what computers are for [03:20] or rather, why not leave the ban then? [03:20] you keep computers in your head?? [03:20] _P [03:20] Ok... I'll put it back.. But YOu guys were working with him so I took it back off.. [03:20] I'm only asking why? [03:21] I was trying not to step on your toes.. [03:21] tritium and nickrud were right there. [03:22] I'm barely paying attention, so don't mind me. [03:22] k [03:22] I was fine with the ban, but I'll leave it up to you, Jack_Sparrow. [03:22] since he was a known troll, you probably saved me a few points on my blood pressure [03:22] np.. well see if he comes back.. [03:22] goodnight [03:23] goodnight [03:23] Hes back.. lets see if he learned anything [03:25] oh boy [03:26] 60 second kb seems to have changed his tone... [03:27] We'll see. [03:30] lol, a nice, semi sarcastic part [04:30] evening all [04:31] what is the best way to get the logs from todays IRC Council meeting. [04:31] Technoviking irclogs.ubuntu.com [04:35] not up yet:), thank nickrud [04:35] Technoviking you must be kidding. [04:36] the #ubuntu-meeting file is only 1.4k, only a few lines, not in the 03-Jun-08 [04:38] thanks [04:38] Technoviking not sure, but at the end something about the meeting postponed. No one showed I guess. Those logs are automatically updated [04:39] nickrud: that is the CC, got a message about problem in an IRC council meeting today, wanted to read the logs for it [04:40] Technoviking oh, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/06/04/%23ubuntu-ops.html , starts pretty much at the beginning [04:41] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/06/03/%23ubuntu-ops.html Technoviking , 23:38 the question was put [04:42] nickrud: thanks, was looking in the #ubuntu-meeting logs :) [04:44] * gnomefreak finally fixed flash 10 PPA issues :) [04:53] hi all, anyone around to verify if Neo_The_User is a bot that's saying hi to all in #ubuntu [04:54] thanks RoAkSoAx [04:55] np ;) [05:22] astro76 called the ops in #ubuntu (Remo-Con is a bot) [05:22] In ubottu, calcmandan said: !scrot is a simple screen capture utility using imlib2. For more information, go to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/scrot. [05:27] In ubottu, calcmandan said: !scrot is a simple screen capture utility using imlib2. For more information, go to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/scrot [06:46] örbö [07:01] * elky_work blinks. [08:50] xubuntuland sorted now? [08:53] nope, seems not [08:54] and i still don't see why it's vital to share any particular piece of information that someone asks you, about anything. [09:01] did you btw notice [04:43] *** BunnyRevolution [n=supybot@24.225.23.57] has joined #ubuntu-ops [09:01] [04:43] *** BunnyRevolution is New Now Know How [09:01] i hadn't - i don't see joins and parts and quits in the backscroll. [09:02] anyone who was awake -6 hrs ago [09:02] but how convenient, that the spies are out. sigh. [09:04] after having read the backlog, I sorta feel like... um. that I should reinstall my laptop with something like e17 or fluxbox [09:04] my laptop feels icky [09:04] and not ubuntu? :) [09:04] yup [09:05] Myrtti: it'll get fixed. When the CC gets the information it needs to know, it shouldn't end up staying like this. [09:06] how they might find out that information is an exercise left to the reader. [09:06] well, I don't know all the issues at hand, I would assume that he does a great job with the project but... [09:06] I don't know [09:07] there's just something fundamentally wrong here [09:07] Myrtti: if the irc council actually had cody's trust, he'd hand it over. [09:07] * Hobbsee asked him this a few days ago, in here. [09:07] it's not just about irc council for me [09:07] it's the whole status of xubuntu vs. ubuntu [09:07] as I said, my laptop feels icky [09:09] Myrtti: i think the status of xubuntu vs ubuntu would *only* come up if the two parties had significant disagreements with the way the other party did things, and did not trust the other party to make good decisions. [09:11]