[00:11] <calc> is there a way to break a rules run via a command, eg exit 1 or something?
[00:11] <calc> if it finds a problem to force the build to fail?
[00:13] <Keybuk> calc: as in debian/rules ?
[00:29] <calc> Keybuk: yea
[00:29] <calc> so i guess something to throw an error for a makefile
[00:29] <Keybuk> calc: then yes, you can just exit 1
[00:30] <calc> ok thanks :)
[00:30] <calc> i didn't know if there was a more correct way to do it
[00:30] <emgent> heya
[00:30] <calc> emgent: hi
[00:30] <emgent> calc: heya :)
[00:31] <calc> i'm adding a test to make sure i stop forgetting to apply the Desktop renaming patches for OOo
[00:31] <calc> forcing it to kill the build if i do :)
[00:32] <emgent> hard work for OOo :ç
[00:35] <Keybuk> calc: at the beginning of the build, I assume? :p
[00:36] <calc> yea
[00:39] <Keybuk> you wouldn't want to wait a week to find out
[00:45] <nixternal> mneptok: 1 hour 15 minutes, come and get your membership!
[00:49] <nixternal> cgrega1: 1 hour and 10 minutes until membership meeting!
[00:49] <nixternal> awalton__: same for you ^^ 1 hour 10 minutes
[00:53] <cgrega1> nixternal: Yep.....
[00:53] <awalton__> nixternal, thanks.
[00:54] <nixternal> no prob
[00:55] <daxro1> Hey all
[00:57] <daxro1> Is there know problem with  Intel 82801G (ICH7 Family) HDA Controller (rev 02), it was working on a fresh install upgraded and now it fails , I have asked in #ubuntu but no answers , so off topic not funny
[00:58] <daxro1> 2.24.16 used to work not after update to 2.24.18
[00:58] <daxro1> Its a sony laptop , also suffering from the acpi problem
[00:59] <mneptok> nixternal: yeah, i will if i can
[01:13] <ffm> Any idea when we'll get FXrc(1|2) in proposed?
[01:14] <Pici> fx?
[01:16] <sladen> rc?
[01:16] <ffm> Pici: Firefox.
[01:16] <daxro1> I think the problem is the sony-pi module
[01:16] <ffm> Pici: release candidate 1/2
[01:16] <Pici> ffm: RC1 is in proposed.
[01:18] <Pici> ffm: Also, someone just asked that on the sounder list, and got the reply that its undergoing testing, but may make it to -updates next week
[01:18] <ffm> Pici: not on my mirror...
[01:18] <ffm> Pici: cool.
[01:19] <Pici> ffm: I am not a developer, but I know that not all the repositories have proposed, I had to move to the main server to get those
[01:33] <mouz> I'm learning about packaging and I'm reading developer pages. Now I see a package (motion) not having 'ubuntu' in the version string in the changelog file. Is that wrong? Or is that right for some kind of packages? I asked on #ubuntu but there was no answer.
[01:35] <TheMuso> mouz: If the changelog file has the word unstable next to the version number, this means that the package was imported from Debian.
[01:35] <TheMuso> Whereever possible we use packages directly synced from Debian.
[01:36] <pwnguin> its much easier that way ;)
[01:36] <mouz> Is that an automated procedure then?
[01:38] <mouz> TheMuso / pwnguin : so if there's something wrong with the package, and I want to do something about it: contact upstream?
[01:39] <pwnguin> you know how dns works?
[01:39] <TheMuso> mouz: If the fix can be made in Debian, yes is better to do it there, or even upstream from Debian if its not specific to Debian/Ubuntu packaging.
[01:40] <pwnguin> mouz: start with ubuntu and work your way up; make sure it's not specific to ubuntu before pestering any upstreams ;)
[01:41] <pwnguin> nobody likes hearing their openssl is broke when it's just debian and those who branched from them :_
[01:41] <mouz> pwnguin: I think I need to create a debian environment: I *think* it is a problem upstream, but I'm not 100% sure.
[01:43] <pwnguin> thats the challenge I run into. it seems silly to file bugs against debian without actually testing on a debian platform
[01:45] <ScottK> pwnguin: That or knowing enough about Debian/Ubuntu differences to know if testing on Ubuntu is sufficient (it often is).
[01:45] <ScottK> Virtual machines are easy enough to set up that testing on Debian isn't so hard.
[01:46] <mouz> ScottK: would you have a suggestion what virtual machine?
[01:46] <pwnguin> mostly i stick to the fun stuff -- x toys and the kernel
[01:47]  * ScottK hands pwnguin https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM
[01:48] <pwnguin> oh that sounds like oodles of fun
[01:49] <pwnguin> fortunately, neither of my machines appears to support it
[01:49] <pwnguin> ScottK: besides which, the kernel doesnt come from debian :P
[01:50] <ScottK> If it's kernel, then it definitely doesn't go to Debian.
[01:50] <pwnguin> that reminds me, im supposed to rebuild and test something for the sdchi guy
[01:51] <ScottK> pwnguin: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VirtualBox is also good.
[01:51]  * wgrant uses a chroot in most cases.
[01:51] <pwnguin> mouz: at any rate, you've got a couple vm suggestions now
[01:52] <mouz> yes. thanks TheMuso, pwnguin, ScottK: I now can proceed :)
[01:52] <wgrant> Ooh, new policy.
[01:52] <ScottK> wgrant: Yes?
[01:52] <ajmitch> wgrant: where?
[01:53] <wgrant> There hasn't been a big new one in a while.
[01:53] <wgrant> ajmitch: debian-devel-announce.
[01:53] <ajmitch> ah
[01:55] <ajmitch> nothing too major
[01:56] <calc> how do i test for return code in a debian/rules file?
[01:56] <calc> eg:
[01:56] <wgrant> No, looks like formalisation of lots of common practices.
[01:56] <calc> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/17048/
[01:57] <calc> the echo $? seems to return 'ooo-build/configure'
[01:57] <calc> instead of the return code
[01:57] <slangasek> because you have to escape the $ character in makefiles by doubling it
[01:57] <calc> ah so $$? ?
[01:57] <slangasek> yes
[01:58] <calc> ok thanks :)
[01:58] <pwnguin> heh
[01:58] <pwnguin> so there wasnt a Homepage field before today?
[01:59] <wgrant> Not in policy.
[02:02] <calc> great that fixed the code to properly fail now :)
[02:06] <ScottK> pwnguin: In Debian policy tends to define current practice, not lead it.
[02:19] <calc> liw: ping
[02:51] <iwkse> hi, i'm testing on some themes with usplash and with one strace shows a series of vm86old(0xb7d1cc8c)                     = -1 ENOSYS (Function not implemented)
[02:51] <iwkse> what have to do usplash with vm86old?
[02:55] <pwnguin> video routines i think
[02:57] <pwnguin> if you check out the dependency chain of usplash, it goes to libx86, which is used to make "real mode" calls, probably to write to video hardware
[02:57] <iwkse> yes..
[02:58] <iwkse> there's a comment in lrmi.c about it
[02:59] <iwkse> used to syscall 113
[03:14] <TheMuso> Anybody got an idea whats going on here? This is building in an intrepid chroot: http://www.pastebin.ca/1039152 The function where the problem lies is here: http://www.pastebin.ca/1039154 The bits/socket.h file gets included at the top of the c file in question.
[03:18] <StevenK> TheMuso: My guess is the C compiler can't figure out the length of ucred, perhaps the header file that the typedef'd struct is defined in needs to be shifted down
[03:19] <TheMuso> StevenK: Yeah worth a shot, thanks for the idea.
[03:38] <TheMuso> No good it seems. The fun part is that the file in question has code in it for at least Linux/Unix and Mingw32/Windows.
[03:38] <TheMuso> So the include can't really be moved further down, if only a few lines, which makes no difference.
[03:39] <TheMuso> As there are tons of #ifdefs etc.
[03:40] <StevenK> TheMuso: Run the code through gcc -E (the pre-compiler) to see if you can resolve the struct by hand?
[03:41] <TheMuso> StevenK: Ok.
[03:42] <StevenK> TheMuso: That advice might send you over here with a bat
[03:43] <TheMuso> StevenK: I don't know about that, it gives me something new to learn about at least. :)
[03:47] <mdomsch> pitti, superm1, ping re dkms
[03:48] <superm1> hi mdomsch
[03:48] <superm1> what's up?
[03:48] <mdomsch> superm1, #237358
[03:48] <superm1> bug 237358
[03:48] <mdomsch> I'm confused
[03:49] <superm1> so i suppose it depends on how it was dkmsified
[03:49] <mdomsch> say I have linxux-2.6.24-14.xx-generic installed
[03:49] <mdomsch> and they bump the ABI
[03:49] <superm1> but in any case, AUTOINSTALL=yes should handle this fine
[03:49] <mdomsch> so new linux-2.6.24-15.xx-generic gets installed
[03:50] <mdomsch> why wouldn't dkms autoinstall "just work" - why would --force be needed?
[03:50] <mdomsch> and if it's _not_ an ABI bump
[03:50] <mdomsch> so -14.xx -> .14.yy
[03:50] <superm1> i think we need to see martin post his package here to see a little better what the situation is
[03:50] <mdomsch> unless /lib/modules/2.6.24-14-generic gets deleted then re-created
[03:51] <mdomsch> yeah, ok
[03:51]  * mdomsch adds a note to the bug
[03:51] <superm1> pitti, can you post it to a bzr branch and link it to the bug?
[03:52] <superm1> honestly i still haven't used any of the mkdeb framework for doing dkms packages
[03:52] <superm1> i still feel comfortable doing them by hand
[03:52] <superm1> i should start using mkdeb instead
[03:53] <mdomsch> and improve mkdeb then
[03:53] <mdomsch> I put it together based on how we did it with RPMs
[03:53] <mdomsch> not that I'm 100% happy with that - but it's worked fine for several years now
[03:54] <superm1> well i'm not happy with the idea of storing a tgz inside the deb for the source stuff
[03:54] <superm1> it seems unnecessary
[03:54] <superm1> the deb itself can just house usr/src/blah-version
[03:54] <superm1> that's mostly why i've done then by hand
[03:55] <mdomsch> that came about because of a marketing requirement (much as I hated it) to be able to have source-less packages
[03:55] <mdomsch> for a few big customers who were scared that "bad things could happen" if they even had the source
[03:55] <mdomsch> I haven't heard that concern in quite a few years now though
[03:56] <superm1> well sourceless packages are still possible without putting the tgz stuff in there, just take usr/src/ out of debian/install
[03:57] <superm1> i'll sit down with you over lunch one day and you can explain to me more why it was like that
[03:57] <superm1> and what's feasible to change
[03:57] <mdomsch> most of it's feasible to change :-)
[03:57] <mdomsch> especially on ubuntu
[03:58] <mdomsch> as so few packages exist that have used mkdeb yet
[03:58] <mdomsch> I'm completely open to any better way to do packaging
[04:02] <ion_> It would be kind of nice if the chunk of common code in dkms’ mkdeb postinst file were in a file provided by dkms and the postinst just sourced it.
[04:04] <superm1> yeah that's a nice idea
[04:04] <mdomsch> ion_, agreed
[04:06] <impulze> hm
[04:06] <impulze> could i make a proposal somewhere? ;p
[04:06] <impulze> i'm currently setting up crypted root for a friend of mine and i created a hook which can be used to decrypt key-files with gpg
[04:06] <impulze> seems to work pretty good though
[05:07] <encryptz> are there any scripts run against the vanilla kernel to remove binary blobs, etc?
[05:07] <encryptz> as debian does on there kernels?
[05:08] <encryptz> if so, where can i find them? i'm looking to compile my own kernel
[05:46] <TheMuso> Hrm seems the dmsetup command doesn't like the -18 kernel.
[05:46] <TheMuso> Give me a sec and I'll get output.
[05:49] <TheMuso> This is what I get with sudo dmsetup info, this is with 2.6.24-18-generic on amd64. http://www.pastebin.ca/1039227
[05:50] <TheMuso> meh I  didn't have the damn driver loaded.
[05:50]  * TheMuso slaps himself.
[05:50]  * StevenK was about to ask ....
[06:07] <doko> slangasek, pitti: time to move tcl8.5 and tk8.5 to main?
[06:10] <pitti> Good morning
[06:10] <pitti> doko: yes, think so
[06:11] <ScottK> pitti: Do you plan on continuing to use guidance-backends for jockey?  If so, is there a way I can talk you out of it?
[06:11] <pitti> ScottK: I'm happy to switch to something else; what would be better?
[06:11] <pitti> ScottK: (I saw your scrollback)
[06:11] <ScottK> tseliot is writing a new one.
[06:11] <pitti> ScottK: right, I was going to look at that one
[06:12] <ScottK> Fundamentally I xorg.conf parsing is on the way out.
[06:12] <ScottK> I/I think
[06:12] <ScottK> My goal is to kill Guidance as dead a possible in Intrepid.
[06:12] <ScottK> Mythbuntu is the only other user and they'll follow your lead.
[06:13] <pitti> superm1: I'll give some more details on the bug
[06:13]  * ScottK notes the time in the US and decides to head for bed.
[06:13] <superm1> pitti, if at all possible, can you publish a branch?
[06:13] <superm1> it's be best to be able to experiment with the issue first hand
[06:14] <pitti> superm1: I don't have one ATM, but I can post my dkms.conf generation script, and the tarball
[06:14] <superm1> okay
[06:14] <superm1> thanks
[06:14] <pitti> superm1: odd, I thought I described the problem quite clearly
[06:14] <superm1> yeah but it shouldn't be happening
[06:14] <superm1> so something seems fishy about it
[06:15] <pitti> superm1: well, then dkms shouldn't provide the --force option for install at all
[06:15] <pitti> and just implicitly assume it, or so
[06:15] <superm1> well it shouldn't be needing to force though is the thing
[06:15] <pitti> either we need it in both places, or not at all
[06:15] <pitti> superm1: but how can it not?
[06:15] <superm1> it should be able to just "install" without the force
[06:15] <superm1> that's what dkms_autoinstaller is supposed to take care of
[06:15] <pitti> superm1: I can't avoid the improperly versioned modules
[06:16] <pitti> I need the kmods from my package, and they need to replace the ones from linux-generic, even without having a new modversion
[06:16] <superm1> right
[06:16] <superm1> so if you use AUTOINSTALL=yes
[06:16] <superm1> instead of AUTOINSTALL=smart
[06:16] <pitti> thus I need install --force
[06:16] <superm1> then they should take precendence without the force
[06:16] <pitti> superm1: I don't use smart
[06:17] <pitti> superm1: it's not a matter of precedence
[06:17] <pitti> superm1: it's a matter of the installation failing, since the 'version sanity check' barfs and aborts
[06:17] <superm1> oh hmm
[06:17] <pitti> once I --force it through, it works just fine
[06:18] <superm1> okay well post what you can here, i'll experiment when i get into the office in the morning and sort out a solution with matt
[06:18] <pitti> (what's "smart", BTW? it's not documented)
[06:18] <pitti> superm1: right, I will; thanks!
[06:19] <pitti> superm1: oh, for bug
[06:19] <pitti> bug 218955
[06:19] <pitti> superm1: you need sponsoring?
[06:19] <superm1> yes
[06:19] <pitti> 'kay, will do
[06:19] <superm1> great thanks :)
[06:21] <pitti> superm1: for intrepid, is there a source pkg? or is it all in bzr, I just checkout and debuild?
[06:21] <superm1> pitti, for intrepid grab the orig.tar.gz from lirc.org, and then debian/ is in bzr
[06:22] <superm1> i haven't added a get-orig-source rule because it's very rare that upstream actually does releases, it's mostly been snapshots of different varieties
[06:24] <superm1> hm so i thought AUTOINSTALL=smart was supported, but maybe i'm mixing something else up with it
[06:24] <pitti> grep smart /usr/sbin/dkms doesn't give anything, neither in the manpage
[06:24] <superm1> yeah that's what i was checking too
[06:25] <superm1> i'll have to check with the colleague of mine who was referencing it in the first place tomorrow
[06:26] <pitti> argh, /me radiates hate to that silly sf.net thing where you click on a .tar.gz link and it just saves a html page
[06:29] <pitti> asac: which of the two epy's with identical changelogs should I accept for SRU?
[06:32] <pitti> superm1: ok, all done
[06:34] <pitti> Keybuk: argh sysvinit argh; still no luck, apt refuses to upgrade over it
[06:36] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I'm around now
[06:40] <moquist> ogra: if you could take a look at my latest upload I'll appreciate it: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=moodle
[06:53] <pitti> asac: ah, the bug report makes it clear
[06:59] <Hobbsee_> afternoon
[06:59] <liw> calc, pong
[07:01] <TheMuso> Afternoon Hobbsee_.
[07:03] <Hobbsee_> TheMuso!
[07:03] <Hobbsee_> how goes it?
[07:05] <TheMuso> Hobbsee_: Not too bad. Yourself?
[07:05] <Hobbsee_> TheMuso: uni's almost over for the semester.  \o/
[07:05] <TheMuso> Hobbsee_: Awesome.
[07:06] <RAOF> Hobbsee_: Yeah.  This is good.  Less tutorialising, more writing up.
[07:06] <RAOF> Oh.  Wait. :(
[07:06] <StevenK> RAOF: Less students ...
[07:06] <pwnguin> jeebus, not done in june?
[07:06] <pwnguin> i guess its winter down there
[07:07] <RAOF> StevenK: Yeah, that's actually nice.  Lower average wait time for coffeee!
[07:08] <RAOF> I seem to have shipped Hobart winter weather up to Sydney, though.
[07:08] <StevenK> Yes, you bastard.
[07:08] <StevenK> :-P
[07:09] <RAOF> Well, except for the fact that the temperature is roughly double what it would be in Hobart :P
[07:09] <RAOF> Here's an interesting question: do we want to sync nouveau from debian experimental?
[07:10] <RAOF> Actually, now that I think of it, the answer is 'hell, no!'.
[07:10] <pwnguin> aww
[07:10]  * persia trusts RAOFs decision, but doesn't understand it: surely only very few would install such a thing
[07:10] <RAOF> pwnguin: Sorry.  I don't want to maintain the 3d stack, thanks :P
[07:11] <RAOF> persia: That's what _you_ think.  It's in experimental because it needs a git-snapshot of libdrm.  rdepend of * :)
[07:11] <RAOF> For values of
[07:11] <persia> RAOF: And this is why I trust you for all things nouveau: you actually have the answers :)
[07:12] <RAOF> for values of * equal to anything X or 3d related.
[07:12] <pwnguin> i didnt kno debian had gallium in experimental
[07:12] <Hobbsee_> RAOF: hah.
[07:12] <RAOF> It's possible that libdrm will see a release before Intrepid freeze; if so, I'll be asking to sync nouveau.
[07:12] <RAOF> pwnguin: It doesn't.
[07:12] <Hobbsee_> RAOF: don't you have to mark the exams too?
[07:13] <pwnguin> then whats this 3d stack
[07:13] <RAOF> pwnguin: libdrm contains the kernel modules and associated library for the direct rendering manager.
[07:14] <pwnguin> which doesn't have 3d in particular
[07:14] <RAOF> The 3d stack (or, technically, the usermode 3d DRI drivers) depend on libdrm, as does X.
[07:14] <pwnguin> right
[07:14] <RAOF> Almost all X drivers (aka DDX) do *not* require a drm component; nouveau does, because it's entirely new and all drivers are moving towards having a drm component.
[07:15] <pwnguin> RAOF: i think we've talked about this before
[07:15] <RAOF> Probably. :)
[07:15] <pwnguin> i can certainly understand not wanting to handle libdrm2
[07:15] <pwnguin> as part of ubuntu
[07:15] <pwnguin> just thought it was wierd that you called it the 3d stack
[07:15] <RAOF> It's the very bottom of the 3d stack :)
[07:16] <RAOF> It also happens to not be entirely about 3d.
[07:16] <pwnguin> computer stacks grow down ;)
[07:17] <Mithrandir> depends on the architecture.
[07:17] <pwnguin> actually, the next time someone decides to tell me that counting from 0 makes sense in C, i'll ask em to draw a stack
[07:18] <pwnguin> take that "its more intuitive because its how the hardware works"
[07:19] <RAOF> Arrays are a lie in C anyway.
[07:19] <pwnguin> oh?
[07:19] <RAOF> array[foo] <=> *(array + foo)
[07:20] <pwnguin> yes...
[07:20] <pwnguin> im not sure thats a "lie"
[07:20] <RAOF> It is.  There is no "Array".  There's just a bunch of bytes, and a pointer to the bottom.
[07:20] <RAOF> Or top.
[07:20] <RAOF> Or, anywhere, really.
[07:21] <Mithrandir> also array[foo] == foo[array]
[07:21] <pwnguin> so what exactly is an array, do you think?
[07:21]  * StevenK is reminded of "There is no spoon"
[07:21] <pwnguin> Mithrandir: you'd have to have a pretty lenient typing to pull that off
[07:22] <RAOF> I'd say an array is an object that contains a fixed number of indexable subobjects.
[07:22] <RAOF> This makes it impossible for C to have an array, except by convention.
[07:22] <pwnguin> it's all convention
[07:23] <RAOF> Only in C.
[07:23] <pwnguin> just some conventions are enforced by runtime and compilers ;)
[07:24] <RAOF> Right.  There is no gravity, it's just a convention the universe enforces :P
[07:24] <pwnguin> well, computer programmers are designers of systems; in a sense, we're determining whether gravity exists or not
[07:24] <RAOF> That's probably enough semantics for now.  Is python-gnome2-extras installable yet?
[07:25] <RAOF> Or should I actually ask to have various things deliberately rebuilt, rather than waiting for new versions to provoke a rebuild.
[07:26] <Mithrandir> pwnguin: http://rafb.net/p/bKyL9r10.html compiles fine without warnings with gcc -Wall
[07:26] <tjaalton> RAOF: what about the kernel modules, those should be updated too?
[07:30] <pitti> mvo: CRACK ATTACK! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidImprovedLinuxMeta
[07:34]  * wgrant wonders why we are letting X servers loose.
[07:36] <mvo> good morning pitti
[07:36]  * mvo read
[07:36] <Hobbsee_> wgrant: chain them up!
[07:36] <Hobbsee_> mvo: no, you can't play crack attack.
[07:36] <RAOF> tjaalton: Updated in what way?  The libdrm-snapshot in experimental provides a drm-modules-source package for module-assistant.
[07:37] <tjaalton> RAOF: oh, ok
[07:38] <RAOF> For Ubuntu I suppose I could look into DKMS, but it's not really a priority.
[07:38] <tjaalton> right, and if 2.3.1 is enough, we should be able to pull the needed bits in the kernel
[07:39] <tjaalton> unless the nouveau guys are constantly changing/breaking things ;)
[07:40] <RAOF> I think it's been a while since the last drm/DDX incompatibility.
[07:40] <tjaalton> that's good
[07:40] <pwnguin> if they werent breaking things, wouldnt it be time to put drm into mainline kernels/
[07:41] <RAOF> No; they're waiting for the great GPU memory manager wars to decay enough to have safe levels of radiation I think.
[07:41] <tjaalton> pwnguin: it already is, but the stable version is 18 months old
[07:41] <pwnguin> Mithrandir: does that snipped work out on a 64bit platform?
[07:41] <dholbach> good morning
[07:42] <tjaalton> morning, dj holbach ;)
[07:42] <dholbach> hiya tjaalton :)
[07:42] <RAOF> If worst came to the worst, we could posibly push the nouveau drm module into linux-ubuntu-modules.
[07:43] <tjaalton> RAOF: I still have some optimism left ;)
[07:46] <liw> tjaalton, hi there
[07:46] <mvo> hey dholbach
[07:46] <tjaalton> RAOF: how closely have you been following The Great Memomy Manager Wars?
[07:46] <tjaalton> liw: howdy
[07:46] <dholbach> hey mv
[07:46] <dholbach> mvo :)
[07:47] <RAOF> tjaalton: Not very much.  I basically trawled the archives a week or two ago for the burning remains.
[07:47] <tjaalton> RAOF: I mean, it's like redhat/tungsten are doing a lot of ttm stuff lately..
[07:48] <tjaalton> and isn't jesse barnes an intel guy? he's been doing that too
[07:48] <tjaalton> so it's "only" anholt and keithp doing GEM
[07:48] <RAOF> That's not an uninfluential "only", though.
[07:49] <pitti> mvo: hm, the removal of aptitude, libept0, and tasksel in intrepid (in favor of new apt) is your bug, not related to my sysvutils mess, right?
[07:49] <tjaalton> RAOF: hence the quotes ;)
[07:49] <RAOF> Where's that list gone, again?  I feel the need to catch up ;)
[07:49] <pwnguin> well, if intel can't decide what they want
[07:50] <tjaalton> dri-devel
[07:50] <RAOF> Aaaah, of course.
[07:50] <tjaalton> the thread died a while ago
[07:50] <pwnguin> do you really want to place a bet?
[07:50] <tjaalton> apparently r6xx docs are about to be released
[07:52] <pwnguin> Mithrandir: well, you've convinced me. there are no arrays in C. just collective delusions
[07:53] <mvo> pitti: possible, I need to check, I think I didn't break the abi, I will investigate
[08:10] <\sh> moins
[08:11] <pitti> soren: when you merge dnsmasq, can you please stop using "multiuser" for update-rc.d? It's deprecated; please use sth. like "update-rc.d dnsmasq start 20 2 3 4 5 . stop 80 1"; this change can then be sent to Debian, too
[08:11] <pitti> soren: that's our only change (LSB init script is in Debian now), so if they adopt it, we can sync again
[08:11] <Mithrandir> pwnguin: 64-bit> yes, that's all I have those days.
[08:13] <pitti> soren: same for rsync
[08:17] <siretart> pitti: you like the game 'crack attack'? ;)
[08:17] <pitti> siretart: it's all StevenK's fault
[08:18] <pwnguin> <-- pwns at crack-attack
[08:18] <dholbach> woohoo - crack-attack!
[08:18] <dholbach> so what are the high-scores in here? :)
[08:18] <pwnguin> i had a high score of 2500 or so. donno if that's subject to inflation
[08:19] <StevenK> 7000 or so ...
[08:19] <RAOF> jml pwns me at crack attack.
[08:19] <dholbach> holy cow!
[08:20] <pwnguin> it's all in the first few minutes
[08:20] <pwnguin> get a huge combo at the start, and you can chain it while garbage transforms
[08:21]  * dholbach realises that he's not going to win this contest and goes back to work ;-)
[08:25] <StevenK> pwnguin: When my machine stops running something CPU intensive, I'll play you :-P
[08:25] <pwnguin> heh
[08:25] <pwnguin> 7000 seems unreal
[08:26] <StevenK> Like most high scores, it can't be easily replicated
[08:27] <pwnguin> still, its like 20 standard deviations away from my average
[08:27] <StevenK> What's your average?
[08:27] <pwnguin> somewhere in the 2000's
[08:27]  * StevenK mostly plays the Medium AI
[08:28] <pwnguin> huh
[08:28] <pwnguin> i usually play none
[08:29] <StevenK> pwnguin: Yeah. None means no AI. Try Medium
[08:29] <pwnguin> thats not a score
[08:29] <StevenK> Nope, since it simulates a network game
[08:31] <asac> pitti: sorrry. cant you see the which was uploaded later ... otherwise the one with the smaller sized diff.gz :)
[08:31] <asac> but isnt that important. the first one just contain an ununsed patch ;)
[08:31] <pwnguin> StevenK: if you want a real challenge i have a set of colorfilters you can try ;)
[08:32] <seb128> hey asac, thanks for fixing epiphany-browser ;*)
[08:32] <StevenK> pwnguin: Try None set to Xtreme :-P
[08:33] <asac> seb128: yeah ... another night thing. let me know if download is now as fixed as you want it ;)
[08:34] <asac> pitti: did you accept midbrowser?
[08:34] <asac> thanks
[08:37] <asac> pitti: ok. have updated mails to be sure ... please let midbrowser in ;)
[08:38] <pitti> asac: I got the right one (with the smaller patch), yes
[08:38] <pitti> asac: mid> not yet, will do in a bit
[08:40] <asac> gracias
[08:48] <soren> pitti: Was update-rc.d's multiuser option's deprecation announced somewhere? I seem to have missed it :(
[08:49] <pitti> soren: I just sent a mail to u-d-a@
[08:50] <pitti> soren: I thought it would just affect 5 packages, but it's some more (26), thus I wrote an announcement now
[08:53] <Hobbsee_> dholbach: you beat my hy score.
[08:53] <Hobbsee_> if that makes you feel any better.
[08:55] <soren> pitti: Ah, ok. The TearDown wiki page should probably be changed, too.
[08:55] <pitti> soren: right, I'll do that once the announcement hits the ML archive
[08:56]  * soren hugs pitti
[08:57] <Hobbsee_> dholbach: (the latency in reply is due to the failing of the connection via wet string)
[08:57] <pitti> argh, my mail queue is stuck
[08:57] <pitti> piware.de [213.9.79.162] 25 (smtp) : No route to host
[08:57] <pitti> WTF??
[08:57] <soren> $ nc 213.9.79.162 25
[08:57] <soren> 220 box79162.elkhouse.de ESMTP Postfix (Debian/GNU)
[08:58] <soren> wfm
[08:58] <pitti> right, and it works for other ports, too
[08:58] <pitti> *#$(#$* ISP
[08:58] <Hobbsee_> pitti: come to the land of wet string!
[08:58] <dholbach> Hobbsee_: StevenK seems to be the master of crack-attack :)
[08:58] <Hobbsee_> (90% packet loss here for you!)
[08:59] <Hobbsee_> dholbach: yes, seems so.  then i should never play him.
[08:59] <StevenK> pitti: Your ISP is now blocking outgoing port 25?
[08:59]  * Hobbsee_ is not so much a fan of getting belted into the ground.
[09:00] <pitti> there they go
[09:04] <\sh> pitti, you need a reliable mail provider? ;)
[09:04] <pitti> \sh: my server is fine
[09:04] <pitti> \sh: I need a reliable ISP
[09:05] <\sh> pitti, who is it for you? :)
[09:08] <pitti> \sh: http://www.fbn-dd.de/
[09:10] <\sh> pitti, use hosteurope or hetzner or someone else...those isp you can kick if they do something really stupid :)
[09:10] <pitti> -ENODSL
[09:10] <pitti> soren: changed Teardown wiki now
[09:11] <pitti> \sh: again: I can't get DSL here
[09:11] <pitti> \sh: two years ago they built a shiny VDSL node in the vicinity (to handle the fiber lines here), but now there are no ports left
[09:13] <\sh> pitti, grmpf...mv pitti /dev/bw/au+rhein ; install -m 755 /usr/bin/cable /home/pitti/House ; convert pitti_sadness pitti_happyness
[09:14] <pitti> :)
[09:51] <\sh> hmmm...
[09:52] <\sh> what is the default "make -j" counter inside the ubuntu build system?
[09:52] <Mithrandir> 1
[09:52] <\sh> hmm
[10:17] <asac> pitti: do you need any infos for midbrowser?
[10:18] <asac> the build was pre-QAed from https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/+archive
[10:19] <\sh> any sane way to set global makeflags , without using the env?
[10:19] <pitti> asac: no, should be fine; just accepted
[10:20] <pitti> \sh: in the new world, "CFLAGS=-O3 dpkg-buildpackage", IIRC
[10:20] <asac> pitti: rock! ... hope thats it for this run ;) thanks for your great work on this
[10:20] <pitti> hm, not sure whether this has already been implemented...
[10:20] <\sh> pitti, well, i was more thinking about a global conf file for this...but reading Dpkg::BuildOptions is just using ENV..grmpf I need to set it globally inside a chroot
[10:21] <asac> please us -Os ;)
[10:21] <pitti> \sh: you can install hardening-wrapper and modify it accordingly
[10:22] <\sh> pitti, or misusing /etc/environment
[10:24] <\sh> I just need to find a sane way to use all of the cores here
[10:25] <pitti> TheMuso: can you please give me a quick heads-up about what will still happen to pulseaudio/alsa in hardy for 8.04.1?
[10:25] <pitti> TheMuso: Steve and I need to know what we're still blocking on
[10:32] <asac> pitti: btw, i am currently pushing moblin drop the whole xulrunner sources from their archive/tarball .. and do all their development against system xulrunner. So lets hope that in future the tarball will be smaller and thus easier for you to review
[10:32] <pitti> TheMuso, jdong: can doko/I please get your yay or nay on bug 237083?
[10:32] <doko> ohh, that's universe ...
[10:45] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, seems I don't have the power to set the status of duplicate specs to invalid; can you proxy some for me, or can I get it somehow?
[10:46] <pitti> Keybuk: (guest-account, guest-login, and proper-guest-login-on-ubuntu-with-no-password should become obsolete, and gdm-guest-login should be the master spec)
[10:54] <sistpoty|work> bryce: thanks for x11-common. kvm works with it, but uses only 800x600 as virtual screen now (probably because the defaults for the monitor vertrefresh/horizsync don't allow a higher resolution)
[10:54] <\sh> WTF? make[1]: warning: jobserver unavailable: using -j1.  Add `+' to parent make rule.
[10:56] <hunger> Which version of the telepathy spec will the connection managers shipped by intrepid support (telepathy-gabble et al)?
[10:56] <\sh> when passing -jN to usr/bin/sbuild for dpkg-buildpackage...regarding changelog, dpkg-buildpackage should know about -j
[10:57]  * hunger wants to update decibel to a version that will work well with (k)ubuntu.
[11:06] <DktrKranz> pitti, doko: regarding bug 237083, is there any available test case to check if proposed update is good?
[11:07] <DktrKranz> changes seems quite heavy
[11:12] <doko> DktrKranz: what else do you expect from a new source drop?
[11:15] <doko> DktrKranz: please look at the upstream changelog for a hint what did change
[11:16] <DktrKranz> doko: sure. I'll have a look in a couple of hours, when I come back home. If it is a blocker for you, I can look at it right now.
[11:17] <doko> no, looking at it today would be nice
[11:18] <DktrKranz> ok, then. I'll review code and try to isolate some test cases to help testing process. thanks.
[11:20] <pitti> seb128: I copied gtk-vnc, too, and reopen bug 206227
[11:20] <seb128> pitti: ah, good, thanks
[11:21] <seb128> pitti: libgnomeui can probably be moved too
[11:21] <pitti> seb128: hm, evo-exchange has no feedback yet
[11:21] <seb128> pitti: the fixes are not easy to try because those are random crashers which have no testcases
[11:22] <pitti> seb128: right; I'll add some comments and do some explicit testing
[11:22] <ogra> and you likely need an exchange setup
[11:22] <ogra> :)
[11:22] <seb128> pitti: seems that exchange was quite broken, I doubt the update will be a regression
[11:22] <seb128> and there was not so many changes
[11:30] <Mez> Hmm - would cowdancer be valid for main? It'd make using it a lot easier (it requires itself to be installed under it's chroots to be used... which, because pbuilder is setup only to use main as a default - means cowbuilder cant create ubuntu chroots by default)
[11:35] <TheMuso> pitti: The only thing I have really been able to prepare to be fixed is bug 221673 which is a 2-pronged SRU for alsa-lib and alsa-plugins. The flash stuff is somewhat out of our hands till flash 10 goes final.
[11:38] <jdstrand> ArneGoetje: what is the proper way to disable 'Ctrl-space' and SCIM? I don't see it in the preferences (I could be blind though)
[11:40] <TheMuso> doko: ACK for 237083.
[11:45] <pitti> seb128: I take it bug 18783 is fixed in hardy?
[11:45] <pitti> seb128: erm, I mean, in Intrepid? in 2.23?
[11:46] <seb128> pitti: yes
[11:46] <pitti> seb128: cool; I just verified the rest, this can go, too
[11:46] <seb128> cool
[11:52] <ArneGoetje> jdstrand: language-selector: uncheck support for complex scripts.
[11:53] <jdstrand> ArneGoetje: thanks!
[11:54] <persia> ArneGoetje: Is there a way to turn it off, and still let one of the other Triggers (e.g. Hankaku/Zenkaku) activate it?
[11:54] <persia> (where it means "Ctrl-space" and "SCIM" respectively)
[11:55] <ArneGoetje> persia: scim-setup
[11:56] <ArneGoetje> persia: after changing the Hotkeys, you'll need to restart your X session (i.e. logout and relogin) to get the changes into effect.
[11:57] <persia> ArneGoetje: Aha.  It's the logging out that caught me.  Thanks :)
[11:59] <pitti> TheMuso: right; I was especially concerned about the skipping
[11:59] <pitti> TheMuso: which we thought would be worked around with increasing frame sizes; but if it can be patched properly in alsa, so much the better :)
[12:00] <TheMuso> pitti: Thats not for the skipping.
[12:00] <TheMuso> pitti: I uploaded a modified pulse to my PPA, some users said it helped, some said it didn't. However, more users are saying -18 kernel is helping more than anything else.
[12:00] <TheMuso> Thats still up in the air unfortunately.
[12:00] <pitti> ok
[12:00] <pitti> TheMuso: but -18 didn't change anything there, did it? it's just a security update
[12:00] <pitti> TheMuso: -19 changes a ton, though
[12:01]  * pitti -> lunch, bbl
[12:01] <TheMuso> pitti: Right, maybe the users who said it helped skipped 17.
[12:01] <pitti> TheMuso: ok; please subscribe ubuntu-sru to that bug once you are sufficiently confident; we should get it to -proposed for wider-spread testing ASAP
[12:02] <pitti> TheMuso: thanks!
[12:02] <TheMuso> pitti: If I had a reliable fix, I would.
[12:30] <Hobbsee> so, upgrade to intrepid.  good idea?  bad idea?  insane idea?
[12:31] <persia> Hobbsee: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/libperl5.8 might bite you.  Check the rest of NBS as well
[12:32] <Hobbsee> persia: hmmm
[12:32] <Hobbsee> oh, lovely
[12:32] <Hobbsee> even stuff like aptitude doesn't install, for some reason
[12:32] <ogra> who uses that anyway
[12:33] <Hobbsee> yeah, well.
[12:33] <persia> Hobbsee: Therefore, everyone should upgrade right now :)
[12:33] <ogra> its just dselect with some extra unctions
[12:33] <ogra> *functions
[12:33] <Hobbsee> it's more just a matter of wanting to keep the metapackages installed, so i don't miss packages.
[12:35] <persia> ogra: I thought dselect was gone, so now we have to use aptitude
[12:35] <ogra> i still see it in the archive
[12:36] <RAOF> Hobbsee: This is Intrepid here, right now.  Now that upstart isn't broken, you might be able to upgrade :)
[12:36] <ogra> (not that i'D use either)
[12:36] <Hobbsee> RAOF: heh
[12:36]  * Hobbsee looks for a cd
[12:37] <RAOF> ?
[12:37] <persia> ogra: Thanks!  I thought it was lost forever.
[12:37] <ogra> :)
[12:37] <Hobbsee> way cool.  this one already has a pre-burnt copy.
[12:38] <RAOF> Oooh.  I wonder if my shiny new initramfs will actually unlock my crypt device next time I boot?
[12:38] <RAOF> It's always fun to find out :)
[12:53] <\sh> infinity, ping sbuild + dpkg-buildpackage -jN + why is it failing for me with N>1 but not with -j1? :)
[12:54] <\sh> infinity, sorry...-j2 and N>2
[13:02] <lamont> pitti: submission port is more love than 25...
[13:16] <pitti> lamont: hm?
[13:17] <lamont> MTAs now listen on two ports, you see.
[13:17] <ScottK> pitti: Port 25 blocking is pretty common these days.
[13:17] <lamont> generally
[13:17] <pitti> right, I have it listen to 2525, too, and I use that now
[13:17] <lamont> submission      587/tcp                         # Submission [RFC2476]
[13:17] <ScottK> 587 is the standardized port
[13:17] <pitti> I had just used 25 at home until this morning
[13:17] <pitti> aah
[13:18] <meta> Hi all, sorri if this is the wrong channel, but in #kubuntu/#ubuntu nobody knews the ansver for me as i see. So if i remember well, the livecds mounts automatically the local harddrives. My question is, what is this script's name?
[13:18] <Nafallo> 25, 465 and 587 :-)
[13:18] <Nafallo> three ports :-P
[13:18]  * ScottK hands Nafallo a cookie for completeness
[13:18] <pitti> ScottK: I think the point of that exercise (for hotel rooms/my #$# ISP) is to *not* use standardized ports :)
[13:19] <ScottK> pitti: I've only run into a customer having port 587 redirected once.
[13:19] <Nafallo> yay! cookie :-)
[13:19] <ScottK> For your ISP, blocking anything but port 25 makes no sense for anti-spam measures as all they should do it block direct communication to remote MTAs.  Mail submission agents should be fine.
[13:20] <ScottK> Nafallo: 465 is only needed if you're required to care about older Outlook versions and Outlook Express.
[13:20] <Nafallo> SSL standard port :-)
[13:20] <Nafallo> and force TLS on 25, for clients ;-)
[13:21] <pitti> my postfix uses 465 for smtp/ssl
[13:21] <ScottK> That's actually a bit of a misnomer.
[13:22] <ScottK> Port 465 is smtps (wrapped port) SSL.  Port 587 is STARTTLS based and could be either SSL or TLS.
[13:22] <ScottK> The only major mail clients I know of that didn't support the STARTTLS method are Outlook (until 2007 version) and OE.
[13:24] <guysoft42> mvo, hello :) , are you here?
[13:27] <mvo> guysoft42: yes
[13:27] <guysoft42> mvo, i was wondering, if its possible to make the updater install extra packages from the ubuntu repository
[13:28] <mvo> guysoft42: it is possible, what is your use-case for this?
[13:29] <guysoft42> mvo, well i wanted to install a few packages we need in our release, for instance i need python-urlgrabber there, and a few other things
[13:31] <mvo> guysoft42: the easiest way is probably to add a "yourDistroNameQuirks(self)" function to DistUpgradeCache.py and run "self["pkgs1]".markinstall()" there in a loop
[13:43] <guysoft42> mvo,  i guess ill just add it to my wrapper script.. i just thought you might have hidden something there :)
[13:57] <Keybuk> pitti: I seem to vaguely remember that I've had this problem before ;)
[13:57] <Keybuk> which is why I never merged the package names
[13:57] <guysoft42> mvo, ah.. i was just looking how to use python-apt, when i saw you are a developer in that too. so i guess i have now questions to you as a developer as that
[13:57] <pitti> Keybuk: if that alluded to sysvutils, I fixed it now
[13:58] <mvo> guysoft42: sure, I'm in a meeting right now, but I will answer when I'm back
[13:58] <Keybuk> pitti: how did you fix it?
[13:58] <pitti> Keybuk: drop the conflicts:, just rely on the replaces:
[13:59] <pitti> Keybuk: that should be fine AFAICS
[13:59] <Keybuk> pitti: you may also want to upload an empty sysvutils package that's not Essential
[13:59] <guysoft42> mvo, ok, when shall i bug you then?
[13:59] <Keybuk> that way you can remove it in jazzy
[13:59] <pitti> no other way to fix the pre-depends/conflicts loop
[13:59] <ogra> oh wow
[13:59] <pitti> Keybuk: the first merge had that already
[13:59]  * ogra looks at Keybuk 
[13:59] <Keybuk> ah ok, missed that :)
[13:59] <ogra> you recycled an old ltsp spec for gdm-guest-login ?
[14:00] <ogra> funny :)
[14:00] <pitti> ogra: well, I'm about to; if I'd ever get to actually writing it
[14:00] <ogra> pitti, highvoltage will love you :)
[14:00] <ogra> he drafted that originally (in paris i think)
[14:03] <hunger> Anyone from the telepathy team around?
[14:03] <zSoilworker> do you have a question about it?
[14:04] <hunger> zSoilworker: Yeap.
[14:04] <zSoilworker> then no.
[14:04] <hunger> zSoilworker: Damn:-/
[14:05] <hunger> Mithrandir: Which telepathy spec version will be supported in intrepid?
[14:05] <Nilbus> Hello, I'm the president of NCSU LUG.  We've decided that we want to contribute to Ubuntu this summer as a special project.  We'd like to squash some bugs and contribute in other various ways. From reading the wiki, it looks like we ought to find a mentor and work under a MOTU.
[14:05] <Nilbus> is that right?
[14:06] <zSoilworker> Yes, it is.
[14:06] <Nilbus> great
[14:06] <persia> Nilbus: You don't need a specific mentor.  Just start from the wiki, and ask questions in #ubuntu-motu and #ubuntu-bugs, as appropriate.
[14:06] <dholbach> Nilbus: I'd suggest you check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
[14:08] <Mithrandir> hunger: unsure; bigon might know.
[14:08] <hunger> bigon: Which telepathy spec version will be supported in intrepid?
[14:08] <hunger> Mithrandir: Thanks!
[14:09] <hunger> Mithrandir: I'd like to update decibel to work well with the telepathy stuff in intrepid, but that damn spec keeps changing all the time.
[14:10] <Robot101> well, you could ask us what we're planning to change and when :)
[14:10] <Robot101> we could even make a recommendation of which spec version to aim for
[14:10] <Robot101> when is intrepid?
[14:10]  * lamont would still like to know why his hardy box has no ck-sessions
[14:11] <lamont> Robot101: 8.10
[14:11] <Robot101> more specifically, when is the UVF?
[14:11] <hunger> Robot101: I do not really care about the spec version, but about the binaries shipped. Those will probably differ from what the spec says anyway.
[14:12] <Robot101> well, I can comment on that too
[14:16] <Robot101> hunger: which bits concern you?
[14:17] <hunger> Robot101: Currently some of the CMs just coredump. They used to work a couple of weeks back. I need to debug that, but I do not want to waste time on debugging random versions;-)
[14:18] <Robot101> hunger: hrm... they work here... :) when do they crash?
[14:18] <Robot101> I'd not have expected spec changed to cause crashes in CMs
[14:18] <Robot101> if they do we're doing something very wrong :D
[14:19] <hunger> Robot101: gabble does coredump right after the first message is delivered. It could be something decibel specific, have not really looked into it yet.
[14:19] <hunger> Robot101: I have some reports that other CMs behave similarly, but I have not verified that.
[14:20] <Robot101> first incoming, or outgoing?
[14:20] <hunger> Incoming.
[14:21] <hunger> Robot101: I'll look into it once I find some time to do it and have some idea which CM versions will see some wider exposure;-)
[14:27] <Riddell> zul: mysql is blocking kde 4 getting installed, any chance of a fix for that i386 fail to build?
[14:29] <zul> Riddell: yes its on my plate for today
[14:29] <Riddell> great
[14:34] <Keybuk> so, I was chatting to an über-scientist friend of mine last night
[14:35] <Keybuk> and for no readily apparent reason, we ended up briefly discussing the whole kilobyte vs. kibibyte thing
[14:35] <Keybuk> and he expressed surprise it was considered a problem
[14:35] <Keybuk> pointing out something that had never occurred to me before
[14:35] <Keybuk> a byte cannot ever be an SI unit, and powers of 10 are inherently irrelevant for them
[14:36] <Keybuk> SI units aren't just able to be multiplied, they must also be able to be divided
[14:36] <Keybuk> a tenth of a byte is a nonsense unit
[14:36] <Keybuk> as would be a millibyte, nanobyte, etc.
[14:37] <Keybuk> bytes are only usefully divisible by powers of 2
[14:37] <Keybuk> so must therefore also be multipled by powers of 2
[14:37] <seb128> Keybuk: stop chatting there and look at #ubuntu-meeting ;-)
[14:40] <Hobbsee> this isn't fair.
[14:40] <Hobbsee> i'm still on hardy, and gnome is broken.
[14:40] <Hobbsee> this machine doesn't even know about intrepid yet :(
[14:41] <stgraber> Hobbsee: maybe this computer only like unstable softwares and crash with stable ones ? :)
[14:41] <Hobbsee> stgraber: actually, i think this laptop hates getting gnome of any kind installed at all.
[14:42] <Hobbsee> stgraber: i actually haven't had to have a war with the installer this time, which is new.
[14:42] <Hobbsee> and i suspect that my gnome is broken due to part of an upgrade done
[14:42] <stgraber> Hobbsee: what's broken ?
[14:42] <Hobbsee> stgraber: gnome-panel - undefined symbol error
[14:43]  * Hobbsee wills the update to go faster.
[14:44] <seb128> Hobbsee: what version do you use? what symbol?
[14:45] <Hobbsee> seb128: don't worry, i'm hoping it'll go away in a minute.  i'm just amused.
[14:45] <seb128> Hobbsee: I'm not really amused, what symbol?
[14:45] <seb128> Hobbsee: and what are you doing?
[14:46] <seb128> Hobbsee: !!!
[14:46] <ion_> keybuk: A lot of people use millibits. Also grambits. “This video is 20mb in size”, “I have a 200gb hard drive”. :-)
[14:47] <ogra> seb128, she's upgradng to intrepid and half way through
[14:47] <Hobbsee> ogra: it appears that this is actually a pre-release hardy to an hardy_updates, but essentially, yes.
[14:47] <seb128> ogra: ah, pfiou ;-)
[14:47] <ogra> seb128, nothing to be concerned about on your side
[14:48] <Hobbsee> seb128: if i thought you'd broken something, i'd yell directly at you.
[14:48] <Hobbsee> seb128: so if i don't yell at you in the next 5 mins or so, you're OK.  if i do, then you have done something bad.
[14:48] <seb128> Hobbsee: well, you mention undefined symbol during upgrade which is still a bit weird
[14:48] <Keybuk> ion_: bit isn't divisible either :p
[14:48] <Hobbsee> seb128: yeah, i'm not sure you're supposed to restart X during an upgrade.
[14:49] <seb128> Hobbsee: no, you are supposed to use update-manager ;-)
[14:49] <ion_> keybuk: But at least we have grambits, thanks to the VWBS technology.
[14:49] <Hobbsee> seb128: oh yeah.  i did use that a few times.
[14:49] <Hobbsee> seb128: that tends to annoy me, in how it always persists in stealing focus.
[14:49] <seb128> Hobbsee: but in fact you should not get undefined symbols, the library should be unpacked first
[14:50] <seb128> Hobbsee: it should not display any dialog once it has started downloading and installing things
[14:50] <Hobbsee> for a dist upgrade, or the standard upgrader?
[14:50] <seb128> any upgrade
[14:50] <seb128> maybe there is a depends not strict enough
[14:50] <seb128> that's why I'm asking what symbol error you get
[14:51] <Hobbsee> ah.  unsure, tbh.  i can't seem to get a terminal inside x, due to the lack of gnome-panel.
[14:51] <jkvd> who is on bash
[14:52] <seb128> right click on the desktop and create a launcher there ;-)
[14:52] <Hobbsee> no right click menu, either.
[14:52] <seb128> so nautilus doesn't start either
[14:52]  * Hobbsee is not that dumb.
[14:52] <Hobbsee> yeah, i don't think so
[14:52] <seb128> you can switch to a vt and look to .xsession-errors
[14:52] <Hobbsee> mmm
[15:09] <Hobbsee> seb128: you're in luck :)
[15:09] <seb128> ?
[15:10] <Hobbsee> seb128: it all works, when the update finished.
[15:10] <seb128> good ;-)
[15:11] <Hobbsee> ahhh, lovely X.
[15:12] <MacSlow> mvo, pitti, seb128: regarding the three patched packages (libgksu, gnome-screensaver, gnome-session) sporting "blinged up" dialogs... I've tested them on GeForce/i965/R200 now on compiz (with and without blur) and metacity (with and without compositor)
[15:12] <pitti> yay bling!
[15:12] <MacSlow> mvo, pitti, seb128: always works never crashes :)
[15:13] <ogra> MacSlow, from a classmatePC POV ... is ram usage affected without composite ?
[15:13] <MacSlow> mvo, pitti, seb128: pending (and also wanting your feedback) is to use the currently used gradient nor no gradient (uses theme-colors)... also waiting for some artistic feedback from kwwii
[15:14] <ion_> macslow: Screenshots, please? :-) I saw the WIP version, but what does the current thing look like?
[15:14] <MacSlow> ogra, if there is not composite the old look will be used
[15:14] <ogra> good :)
[15:14] <ogra> i need to run my gnome in 100M :)
[15:14] <ogra> every byte counts
[15:16] <MacSlow> ion_, http://people.ubuntu.com/~mmueller/with-or-without.png
[15:17] <MacSlow> ion_, the nasty "outter frame" of the GtkEntry is fixable (I've something locally here), but for large scale deployment of that some things in gtk+ and the used themes need to be fixed first.
[15:21] <calc> liw: ponfg
[15:21] <calc> liw: er pong
[15:29] <ion_> macslow: The gradient is quite nice, but i’d rather it were brighter. Perhaps the normal background color on average.
[15:29] <pitti> MacSlow: I prefer the slightly brighter version, better contrast
[15:29] <Hobbsee> argh.
[15:29] <Hobbsee> now, i need to upgrade xargs first, right?
[15:29] <Hobbsee> er, findutils
[15:30] <Hobbsee> yep, that's done it.
[15:30] <ion_> macslow: Also, is the text intentionally not black?
[15:30] <MacSlow> ion_, that's my theme (murrine)
[15:31] <cgregan> mvo: Thanks for all of your help with VM builder and UME!
[15:41] <pitti> tkamppeter: how can I get the ieee-1284 device ID of connected printers again? didn't that work with lpinfo -v somehow?
[15:41] <ffm>  /part
[15:43] <pitti> tkamppeter: cups has an API function backendGetDeviceID(), but that's inconvenient to call from a Python program
[15:50] <pitti> tkamppeter: ah, nevermind me; lpinfo -l -v DTRT
[15:56] <Hobbsee> ubuntu is depressingly dull at times.  there was only one piece of breakage in that hardy--> intrepid upgrade.
[15:56] <emgent> ember: ping
[15:56] <Hobbsee> i'm sure it should break my X, not boot, or something along those lines.
[15:56] <Hobbsee> or break apt
[15:57] <persia> Hobbsee: If you really want that, it can be arranged, but you might have to select some alternate packages...
[15:57] <emgent> ember: is good ask first to work in some packages...
[15:58] <emgent> ember: ASK to last uploader. remember please.
[15:58] <ogra> Hobbsee, or give one of us ssh access ... we can quickly mees up your system remotely
[15:58] <asac> ogra: my classmate hangs easily
[15:58] <Hobbsee> ogra: *grin*
[15:58] <asac> like starting firefox -> hang
[15:58] <ogra> asac, doing what ?
[15:58] <ogra> hmm
[15:58] <ogra> which image ? the latest ?
[15:58] <asac> its the final hardy version i installed month ago
[15:58] <asac> ogra: no idea
[15:58] <ogra> well, likely
[15:59] <asac> i dont track your releases
[15:59] <highvoltage> ogra: what did pitti do?
[15:59] <ogra> i didnt build any images after that
[15:59] <ogra> weird
[15:59] <highvoltage> ah, gdm-guest-login :-D
[15:59] <ogra> asac, the prob is that the HW is deprecated :P
[15:59] <asac> ogra: thats bad. so should i downgrade to gutsy?
[16:00] <ogra> the 1.0 is out of production
[16:00] <asac> do you have a gutsy image with ffox 3?
[16:00] <ogra> no
[16:00] <ogra> i dont have a usable gutsy image at all
[16:00] <asac> ogra: so there is no usable image?
[16:00] <ogra> and i havent seen such stuff on the hardy image
[16:00] <ogra> did you upgarde yours ?
[16:00] <Hobbsee> oh, nice.  there is something else broken.  vim-gtk.
[16:01] <asac> ogra: i dont think so ... i think i upgraded to get the latest fixes as you suggested at some point
[16:01] <asac> but that was about the release time
[16:02] <ogra> hmm
[16:02] <ogra> what does the dskspace say ?
[16:02] <ogra> *disk
[16:02] <asac> have to boot again
[16:02] <asac> was completely frozen
[16:02] <ogra> thats really odd
[16:02] <ogra> works fine here
[16:03] <asac> ogra: unionfs is 100%
[16:03] <asac> is that the rw disk?
[16:03] <ogra> thats fine
[16:03] <ogra> err, wait
[16:04] <ogra> lemme check
[16:04] <asac> running apt-get clean now
[16:04] <asac> to seee
[16:04] <asac> ogra: / is mounted on that
[16:04] <ogra> right
[16:04] <ogra> and you should actually see some free space
[16:05] <ogra> gimme a sec to boot mine
[16:06] <ogra> unionfs should have about 300M free
[16:06] <ogra> and /var about 150
[16:06] <ogra> plus ~ 400M for /home
[16:07] <asac> ogra: / has 366m used ans 2.5m free
[16:07] <ogra> well, thats the reason for your lockup then
[16:08] <ogra> i'D love to know what fils it
[16:08] <ogra> *fills
[16:08] <asac> where the hell do i get the 300m from?
[16:08] <ogra> the cow partition
[16:08] <asac> i had  initrd.img.bak file for whatever reason
[16:08] <asac> but that didnt help much
[16:08] <ogra> squashfs and cow get merged in unionfs
[16:08] <ogra> no
[16:08] <\sh> ogra, you have cows on your partition? wasn't apt-get moo enough?
[16:08] <ogra>  /boot is separate to enable kernel updates
[16:09]  * \sh should go home after fighting with php crack
[16:09] <asac> ogra: i dont see any boot partition here
[16:09] <asac> ogra: /usr occupies 1.8G
[16:09] <ogra> it gets bind mounted secretly by the initramfs
[16:10]  * ogra runs du -hcs /usr ... might take a while 
[16:10] <ogra> 1.7 here
[16:10] <ogra> seems you installed any additional stuff that ate up your disk
[16:10] <asac> i dont think it did
[16:11] <asac> is there an initial package list so i can get back to defaulss
[16:11] <asac> ?
[16:11] <ogra> you could wipe /home and the /cow partition
[16:12] <asac> i have no /cow
[16:12] <asac> why would i want to wipe home? there is space on that one
[16:12] <ogra> well, wipe /cow then, you need to boot from an external device for that
[16:13] <ogra> its hidden by default
[16:13] <ogra> asac, cat /proc/mounts
[16:13] <asac> ogra: what is /cow ... why is it on there if its not used?
[16:13] <ogra> to see the real world :)
[16:14] <ogra> there is some hidden move and bind mounting going on
[16:14] <asac> still dont understand what cow is
[16:14] <asac> and whatfor that exists
[16:14] <ogra> a copy on write filesystem
[16:14] <asac> ill reinstall this thing, but i am sure that i didnt install anything new
[16:14] <ogra> squashfs is readonly
[16:15] <ogra> to get it into a writable state you use a copy on write partition and merge that through unionfs with the squashfs image
[16:15] <asac> hmm ook ... anyay i think classmate desktop should have been much more sripped down ;)
[16:15] <ogra> all data written will end up on the cow device
[16:15] <asac> ok so it gets bigger
[16:15] <ogra> will happen
[16:15] <asac> because of diffs?
[16:15] <ogra> ?
[16:16] <ogra> the system on the cmpc has exactly 300M writable space
[16:16] <asac> well ... if we have a ro fs and the diffs on top of that in cow, the space consumption increases over time without actually having more data
[16:16] <ogra> and intel insisting that i put oo.o back in will cost another 100
[16:16] <asac> ogra: yes, because you never changed anything in /cow :)
[16:16] <ogra> well, i dont install apps
[16:16] <asac> do one upgrade and /cow will fill up the 300
[16:17] <asac> imo it makes no sense to allow writing at all then
[16:17] <ogra> the device does only security updates
[16:17] <asac> sure ... but still each ffox update brings 70m
[16:17] <ogra> -updates updates need to come rolled in new images
[16:17] <ogra> right thats why we will re-roll regular images with security and -updates packages
[16:18] <asac> ogra: why not just distribute a live-usb stick and use the in-device disk just for data?
[16:18] <ogra> thats the limitation of this compressed fs design
[16:18] <asac> :)
[16:18] <ogra> well, lets see
[16:19] <ogra> apparently i'm not allowed/supposed to work on that level anyway anymore
[16:19] <asac> sure
[16:19] <ogra> the netbook image will heal the world i was told :P
[16:19] <kirkland> pitti: you there?
[16:19] <asac> ogra: still ... any hint how i can use your platform and put fluxbuntu on that?
[16:19] <ogra> re-roll the image :)
[16:20] <asac> ogra: netbook is still your business, isnt it?
[16:20] <kirkland> pitti: i think we're talking past one another on Bug #235294
[16:21] <pitti> kirkland: highvoltage
[16:21] <pitti> kirkland: hi, I mean
[16:21] <kirkland> kirkland: :-)  hey martin.... so....
[16:22] <kirkland> pitti: i agree with you, that Debian Unstable hasn't taken that fix
[16:22] <highvoltage> pitti: me!
[16:22] <kirkland> pitti: when I wrote "This fix is upstream in Apache2..." I meant upstream = apache.org
[16:23] <kirkland> pitti: and that a sync/merge by Debian to an updated apache.org Apache2 would be desirable
[16:24] <pitti> hi highvoltage :)
[16:24] <pitti> kirkland: aah, ok
[16:24] <highvoltage> hey pitti :)
[16:25] <kirkland> pitti: what do you mean by "close the intrepid task"?
[16:26] <pitti> kirkland: well, get it fixed in intrepid
[16:26] <pitti> since that's a requirement of SRU
[16:26] <kirkland> pitti: oh, right, okay, i can do that
[16:26] <kirkland> pitti: sorry, i misunderstood, i'll do that today
[16:27] <pitti> kirkland: well, it's not *that* urgent, but I was wondering about the path to get it fixed
[16:29] <kirkland> pitti: well, i was sort of hoping that debian unstable would sync with apache.org's latest apache, and we'd merge that expediently
[16:29] <kirkland> pitti: which has the fixes in it
[16:29] <kirkland> pitti: but if that hasn't happened by now, i'll cherry pick and port the fix to intrepid
[16:33] <pitti> kirkland: my primary concern with this is that we don't accitentally forget about the bug and ship intrepid with bugs which we fixed in SRUs for earlier releases
[16:33] <pitti> kirkland: if it's more convenient to just wait for a new debian release, then making sure that they know about it (bug report?) and milestoning the bug for intrepid beta will work, too
[16:34] <kirkland> pitti: gotcha, can do
[16:38] <zul> pitti: once 8.04.1 I was going to go through the list for server related packages and make sure our patches are applied for intrepid
[16:39] <mlind> calc: is there going to be another build for openoffice for hardy-proposed as openoffice.org-voikko needs a rebuild against the current version (bug #236248) ?
[16:40] <calc> mlind: yep, next week
[16:40] <tkamppeter> pitti, is  backendGetDeviceID() not also available via python-cups somehow?
[16:40] <calc> mlind: the final release of 2.4.1 is june 10
[16:40] <pitti> tkamppeter: might be too, yes
[16:41] <mlind> calc: cool, probably makes sense to wait then
[16:48] <MacSlow> mvo, for 8.04.1 what release-target needs to be in the changelog for a package? just "hardy"?
[16:50] <persia> MacSlow: hardy-proposed, typically, as it would be an SRU, typically.
[16:50] <mvo> MacSlow: what persia said, hardy-proposed
[16:50] <mvo> MacSlow: also we could push it into a PPA first and blog about it or somesuch
[16:51] <MacSlow> mvo, I'll go for the PPA then
[17:11] <slangasek> MacSlow, mvo: uhm, what's this that's being pushed to a PPA that you still think to target for 8.04.1?
[17:12] <MacSlow> slangasek, just background-UI tweaks like http://people.ubuntu.com/~mmueller/with-or-without.png
[17:13] <MacSlow> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mmueller/logout-rgba.png
[17:13] <MacSlow> minus the brushed-metal
[17:13] <MacSlow> slangasek, and for the gnome-screensaver unlock
[17:13] <slangasek> ok; why would this go through a PPA first?
[17:14] <MacSlow> slangasek, testing is the main reason
[17:14] <slangasek> -proposed is for testing
[17:14] <slangasek> and you have to go through -proposed anyway, even if you do a PPA first
[17:14] <MacSlow> slangasek, although I tested it on my i965- and GeForce-systems with compiz (with and without blur) and metacity (with and without compositor)
[17:14] <slangasek> ... and the window for getting changes into 8.04.1 is closing :-)
[17:15] <MacSlow> slangasek, I know that's why I don't sleep since tuesday
[17:15] <slangasek> heh
[17:16] <MacSlow> it's impressive how well coke still works on me
[17:16]  * Hobbsee hands MacSlow a caffeine drip
[17:16] <MacSlow> coke like in softdrink... just to avoid any wrong conclusion here :)
[17:17] <cody-somerville> MacSlow, ;]
[17:17] <Hobbsee> sure sure
[17:17] <MacSlow> hey cody-somerville
[17:17] <cody-somerville> Heya
[18:16] <infinity> \sh: -ETOOVAGUE... What's failing, how, and how is this something I did? :)
[18:19] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I was wondering how we ejected the Live CD before calling reboot
[18:19] <Keybuk> since reboot is on the CD
[18:19] <Mithrandir> we try to cache everything by cat-ing it to /dev/null and then forcefully eject it, iirc.
[18:20]  * slangasek giggles madly
[18:20] <Keybuk> I know
[18:20] <Mithrandir> I blame Kamion
[18:20]  * danshearer is away: blah
[18:20] <Mithrandir> danshearer: please turn off public away.
[18:21] <Mithrandir> can we patch that "feature" of xchat?
[18:21] <Keybuk> I'm arguing with Jeremy Katz who would like /sbin/reboot to call eject() :p
[18:21]  * danshearer has found the switch; thanks
[18:21] <Mithrandir> danshearer: thanks! :-)
[18:21] <Keybuk> apparently Fedora have always just crossed their fingers and hoped the CD didn't eject _too_fast_ :)
[18:21] <mario_limonciell> Keybuk, in "all" cases?  I would hate to have my drives eject everytime i'd reboot :P
[18:22] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: that would make me very unhappy when I'm installing a server from CD.  And what Mario says.
[18:22] <Keybuk> I agree
[18:22] <Keybuk> thus the "arguing"
[18:22] <Keybuk> I kinda want to get rid of /sbin/reboot entirely
[18:22] <Keybuk> except as a handy wrapper to shutdown
[18:22] <slangasek> I want eject to reboot my system
[18:22] <Keybuk> slangasek: eject /sys/power
[18:23] <slangasek> haha
[18:23] <Mithrandir> that'd be an awesome easter egg.
[18:23] <Keybuk> drag the computer in the trash </mac os>
[18:31] <kees> hm, so what's the magic for dealing with the sysvutils update?
[18:31] <kees> dist-upgrade is complaining
[18:34] <zul> slangasek: any idea why openldap2.4.9 would be rejected in hardy-proposed the email Im getting back is the md5sums are mismatched but they look fine to me
[18:34] <slangasek> zul: what's the exact wording of the error message?
[18:35] <zul> slangasek: "MD5 sum of uploaded file does not match existing file in archive
[18:35] <zul> Files specified in DSC are broken or missing, skipping package unpack verification."
[18:36] <zul> I did a debuild -S -sa
[18:36] <slangasek> zul: that means the openldap orig.tar.gz you've just tried to upload doesn't match the one already in the archive for intrepid
[18:36] <zul> but its for hardy-proposed though
[18:37] <zul> so I could just do a 1.1 and then do a debuild -S ?
[18:38] <slangasek> it doesn't matter what it's for, you're not allowed to have two orig.tar.gz files in the archive with the same name and different checksums
[18:38] <zul> ah ok
[18:38] <slangasek> you need to grab the orig.tar.gz from intrepid and work from that
[18:38] <zul> gotcha
[18:38] <larsu> tkamppeter: Mike will not put my patch into CUPS 1.4, so it might not be there for intrepid ... he didn't say why, though
[18:47] <geser> kees: it should be fixed in sysvinit 2.86.ds1-56ubuntu3, see bug #237276
[18:47] <kees> geser: ah-ha, my archive sync must not be done.  thanks.
[18:49] <kees> or... it ran out of space.  oops
[18:56] <lamont> slangasek: coreutils offends me
[18:56] <slangasek> ...
[18:58] <lamont> bug #237699
[19:02] <lamont> slangasek: syscall (correctly) returns EOPNOTSUPP, ls decides that it should mention this, and builds fail.
[19:02] <slangasek> heh
[19:04] <tkamppeter> larsu, Mike simply closed the STR? Or what did he do?
[19:06] <tkamppeter> larsu, seems that CUPS is already feature-frozen, seems better if you make a patch for system-config-printer (there I have upstream upload rights).
[19:07] <larsu> tkamppeter: no, he said he didn't look at the patch yet, but it definitely won't be in before 1.5
[19:07] <tkamppeter> larsu, for me it looks like he generally does not accept new features any more.
[19:07] <tkamppeter> pitti, are you still there?
[19:08] <larsu> tkamppeter: that's probably it ...
[19:09] <larsu> tkamppeter: what did you have in mind for system-config-printer?
[19:09] <tkamppeter> larsu, pitti, it seems that we must convince Mike to return to support the custom options with an Intrepid which fully supports them.
[19:10] <tkamppeter> larsu, letting s-c-p support the custom options, letting the Common Printing Dialog support them and so making printer manufacturers using them ...
[19:10] <larsu> tkamppeter: can't we just apply the patch for intrepid?
[19:11] <tkamppeter> larsu, let's simply do that, if pitti has nothing against it.
[19:12] <tkamppeter> I can upload into the CUPS SVN of Debian and also directly upload CUPS into the Ubuntu archives, but pitti is also working on the maintainership of CUPS ...
[19:14] <tkamppeter> With the patch in Intrepid it will get intensively tested and so Mike will probably take it into 1.5 when custom options have turned standard and I am on the way to hammer them into LSB stone ...
[19:15] <larsu> tkamppeter: great!
[20:28] <Daviey> smurf: ping, are you free for a PM?
[20:29] <philwyett> pedro_: You have just marked my bug report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-applets/+bug/237478 as invalid stating it is in our bug system. OK I will naturally assume that means gnome bugzilla, but when you mark invalid like this could you supply a link to the relevant bug in your system so others or myself can track it please.
[20:31] <seb128> philwyett: no we don't do that
[20:32] <pedro_> philwyett: you can fin the dup number at the top of your report btw
[20:32] <seb128> or not always
[20:32] <pedro_> s/fin/find
[20:32] <philwyett> seb128: Just reading it now.
[20:33] <seb128> philwyett: searching for the exact number can easily take some minutes, it's one time looking for you, if we do that for every duplicate we spend the bug searching for numbers for other people and don't get any work done
[20:34] <seb128> philwyett: searching for the exact number can easily take some minutes, it's one time looking for you, if we do that for every duplicate we spend the day searching numbers for other people and don't get any work done
[20:34] <philwyett> seb128: That's fine and understandable.
[20:35] <pwnguin> heh
[20:35] <seb128> philwyett: anyway in this case pedro find the number so it marked it as duplicate correctly
[20:36] <seb128> but we sometime close bugs when we know it's a duplicate but can't find easily the number
[20:36] <pwnguin> what i hate is finding stuff closed as a dup but not actually having a dup
[20:36] <seb128> pwnguin: feel free to search the number for people who file duplicates and fix those bugs ;-)
[20:37] <pwnguin> ?
[20:38] <seb128> pwnguin: if you don't like bugs closed as dup but not having a dup number you can search for one and update the bug
[20:38] <philwyett> seb128: Thanks to pedro_ for marking the dup. It gives me a good idea this is not going to be a quick fix.
[20:39] <pwnguin> seb128: I do fix bugs. and it helps a great deal when dups are marked in LP, since there's more people to talk with for info
[20:39] <seb128> pwnguin: often those bugs don't need informations
[20:40] <seb128> philwyett: the duplicate number is probably wrong if you really rebooted
[20:40] <pwnguin> it just saddens me a bit to see people with tens of thousands of related bugs yet too busy to find the duplicates
[20:40] <seb128> philwyett: the other bug is about issue after login out and login in again
[20:41] <philwyett> seb128: Yes there are some differences.
[20:42] <seb128> philwyett: to be honest your bug is over one page of description, which is just too much, we get hundred of bugs every day, short descriptions and clear description make the job much easier
[20:43] <philwyett> seb128: Well, I get it if they are short and sweet and get it if they are verbose - Can't win. :-)
[20:43] <seb128> philwyett: if I understand correctly your bug, it's simply "the trash applet count is not updated correctly"?
[20:44] <philwyett> Looks like something like that.
[20:44] <seb128> philwyett: what doesn't help is that your use wrong words, I guess that "Deleted Items Applet" is the trash icon for you?
[20:45] <seb128> philwyett: also describing several issues in a same bug doesn't work correctly
[20:46] <seb128> philwyett: is your user directory on nfs or similar?
[20:46] <philwyett> seb128: The 'About' for the bin in the bottom right hand corner of the bottom panel is 'Deleted Items Applet'. So that what I use.
[20:47] <philwyett> seb128: This is a laptop and is a default install. I don't use nfs.
[20:47] <seb128> and the file is on your local ubuntu directory?
[20:47] <philwyett> Yes
[20:48] <seb128> also you didn't change the icon theme?
[20:48] <philwyett> Changed nothing, install then update. No settings changes at all.
[20:48] <seb128> ok, dunno then, but the bug is of no use now since you reinstalled and you can't provide required details
[20:49] <seb128> dunno about the icon issue
[20:49] <seb128> the refresh count not updated seems to be a monitor issue
[20:49] <seb128> the context menu being active is yet another bug and a duplicate
[20:49] <seb128> some hints for next bugs you report:
[20:49] <seb128> - try to have a short and clear description
[20:50] <seb128> - describe easy steps to trigger the issue if you can
[20:50] <seb128> - don't list several issues on the same bug
[20:50] <seb128> if you look at the gnome-applets bugs there is several bugs about the icon and count not updating correctly
[20:51] <philwyett> seb128: OK, will do.
[20:51] <seb128> bug #34247 for example
[20:52] <philwyett> seb128: Search time is also an issue for me. Have customers too deal with. Will try to dig for dups the next bug I report.
[20:53] <seb128> understable, that's an issue for the bug triagers too ;-)
[20:53] <philwyett> :-)
[20:58] <pwnguin> i kinda wish lp had a public dataset to train bayesian dupefinders on
[20:58] <pwnguin> not sure if bayesian is really what is called for
[20:58] <pwnguin> but some kind of intelligent search
[20:59] <seb128> it does have some intelligent dups listing
[20:59] <seb128> it lists bugs which have a title similar to the one you try to open when you create a bug
[21:00] <pwnguin> do we have any way currently to evaluate how well that works?
[21:00] <seb128> not that I know
[21:02] <emgent> Security Meeting now on #ubuntu-meeting
[21:03] <Ng> do we think seahorse gpg key password prompts appearing behind other windows is a bug in compiz or seahorse?
[21:05] <seb128> Ng: we don't use seahorse but gnome-keyring by default and the focus goes correctly to the entry on my installations
[21:05] <seb128> so if you use seahorse I would say it's a seahorse issue
[21:06] <persia> Ng: I use seahorse, and it works properly for me, but I don't use compiz.
[21:07] <Ng> seb128: hmm, even though seahorse is in ubuntu-desktop?
[21:07] <seb128> Ng: seahorse manages the keys but doesn't ask for gpg passwords
[21:08] <Ng> things like enigmail seem to be making it do so, because it acts as a gpg agent, but I'm prepared to believe that's my personal setup somehow :)
[21:08] <seb128> or I'm being confused again
[21:08] <seb128> wait
[21:08] <Ng> (it actually seems to conflict with gnupg-agent, even though the packages don't conflict - if I have both running, neither works)
[21:08] <seb128> gnome-keyring asks for ssh passphrases
[21:09] <seb128> you are right, seahorse still do gpg
[21:09] <seb128> ok, so I'm using it and compiz and I've no focus issue
[21:09] <seb128> the dialog decoration is color in a way which would indicate the dialog doesn't get the focus but it's on the first plan and it gets whatever I'm typing
[21:09] <Ng> hrm
[21:10] <seb128> s/color/colored
[21:10] <Ng> it steals keyboard input here, doesn't get focus and doesn't get raised
[21:10] <Ng> i have some compiz window matching rules though, which might be confusing things
[21:11] <seb128> right, try using a stock compiz config to see if that makes a difference
[21:11] <persia> Ng: That sounds like a bug in the matching rules.
[21:11] <Ng> they're supposed to just be putting things on specific workspaces, but maybe I have a z-axis specified/implied somehow
[21:12] <Ng> on the subject of the gpg agent stuff - would it be reasonable to have seahorse conflict with gnupg-agent? either that or have the Xsession.d scripts be aware of each other so two agents don't try and start up
[21:13] <seb128> Ng: http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/seahorse/news/20080511T014704Z.html
[21:14] <Ng> aha
[21:14] <Mithrandir> Ng: possibly if seahorse was demoted to recommends of u-d
[21:14] <seb128> Ng: I think the "only start it for GNOME" is how debian addressed the issue
[21:15] <Mithrandir> gpg-agent does stuff that seahorse doesn't, though.
[21:15] <Ng> hmm
[21:29] <ogra> can anyone explain why ports.u.c doesnt use the same paths as archive.u.c ?
[21:29] <ogra> i.e. it doesnt use ubuntu/dists but only /dists
[21:29] <ogra> looks quite inconsistent
[21:30] <infinity> Hrm?
[21:31] <infinity> "archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hardy main" versus "ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports hardy main" ... What's wrong with that?
[21:31] <ogra> http://ports.ubuntu.com/dists/ vs http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/
[21:31] <ogra> ubuntu-ports ?
[21:31] <ogra> ah
[21:32] <ogra> hmm
[21:32] <infinity> (Okay, so ubuntu-ports is an apache redirect back to / but whatever)
[21:32] <ogra> yeah
[21:32] <infinity> The canonical URI is /ubuntu-ports/ not /
[21:32] <ogra> not really visible
[21:33] <ogra> well, i'm playing with UME builder and it actually uses http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
[21:33] <ogra> which indeed doesnt work
[21:38] <persia> s/UME builder/simple-mobile-builder/
[21:41] <ogra> right
[22:34] <YokoZar> Hmm, I'm having a problem with Planet Ubuntu (it's not publishing my posts, but the settings I gave it seem fine).  Who can I talk to about that?
[22:43] <persia> YokoZar: You might ask for direction in #ubuntu.  It's really crowded, but has a wider cross-section of the community.
[22:44] <soren> YokoZar: I just checked...
[22:44] <soren> The URL you put in config.ini only has one post in it, which is from April 1st.
[22:45] <YokoZar> soren: Weird, I just made one today, and if I click the link on the right side of the page I can see it
[22:45] <soren> http://yokozar.livejournal.com/data/rss?tag=ubuntu <--- See for yourself.
[22:46] <YokoZar> soren: to me it looks like I made one today on june 6th
[22:46] <YokoZar> Which is very very odd
[22:47] <soren> YokoZar: I don't know livejournal, but perhaps you can see it, because you're logged in as yourself, but the rest of us don't because it's not properly published?
[22:47] <YokoZar> I didn't think rss feeds could use logins
[22:47] <YokoZar> But a security settings problem would certainly explain it
[22:54] <soren> YokoZar: RSS feeds are carried over http. You can do whatever you want :)
[23:01] <YokoZar> Whoa.  Open up top and go to System->Preferences->Appearence
[23:10] <YokoZar> It's worse than that, you can't change the wallpaper from that dialog by clicking either