[01:28] <calc> http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/05/broadcom-co-founder-allegedly-spiked-tech-execs-drinks-had-wa/ <- interesting
[01:29] <calc> maybe that's how they managed to convince companies to use their crappy wireless chips
[03:49] <ion_> Ooh, new commits! :-) https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~felix-feyertag/apt-sync/main
[03:51] <pwnguin> oh dear lord
[03:54] <pwnguin> does apt-sync actually work?
[03:55] <ion_> I don’t know about the current state of the code, but the theory is solid.
[03:55] <pwnguin> what theory?
[03:55] <ion_> Use old version as a basis and zsync the new one over it.
[03:56] <pwnguin> hmm
[03:56] <pwnguin> how the hell does zsync handle compression?
[03:56] <ion_> The same way rsync does.
[03:57] <pwnguin> terribly?
[03:57] <ion_> man gzip, see --rsyncable
[03:57] <ion_> Not really.
[03:58] <pwnguin> in my tests, rsync didn't make out well on .debs
[04:00] <wgrant> pwnguin: They're already compressed, so of course not.
[04:00] <wgrant> Oh, like that.
[04:00] <ion_> They were probably compressed without --rsyncable, and additionally, apt-sync does something like storing the offsets of the tarballs within debs in the Packages file and handle the tarballs separately, repacking them to a .deb after syncing AFAIK.
[04:00] <wgrant> I see.
[04:00] <pwnguin> wgrant: if they're --rsyncable compressed it's okay. i was under the impression that it was no more than a patch not in gzip
[04:02] <pwnguin> i mean, the challenge is getting the repos to support the compression hit
[04:03] <ion_> Now that i think of it, i don’t see how handling the tarballs separately would actually help. I just think i’ve seen a discussion like that somewhere (apt-sync spec? Ubuntu wiki page? I don’t remember).
[04:03] <ion_> How big is the repo?
[04:03] <pwnguin> i asked the mirrors guys once
[04:03] <wgrant> The entire Ubuntu repo of all supported archs and series?
[04:03] <pwnguin> with or without .isos?
[04:03] <ion_> wgrant: Yeah
[04:04] <pwnguin> 250GB
[04:04] <wgrant> Is that including ports?
[04:05] <pwnguin> donno
[04:05] <ion_> If the overhead is as much as 1%, it would be just 2.5 GiB. I bet the mirror ownerd would be delighted with the huge bandwidth savings.
[04:05] <ion_> s
[04:08] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: xchat doesn't have such a feature turned on by deafult.
[04:13] <pwnguin> i really dont understand why the apt-sync spec doesn't ask for re compressed archives
[04:43] <pwnguin> oh right, because even if it was rsync amenable, there's the CPU contention
[05:58] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I know it's not on by default, but it's easily turned on.  I was suggesting nuking it completely.
[05:58] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: i wish...
[05:58] <ion_> Nuking what?
[06:01] <pwnguin> ion_: /me is away: blah
[06:03] <dholbach> good morning
[06:04] <pwnguin> Mithrandir: if you're on a rampage, how about universal greetings?
[06:04] <pwnguin> or rather, broadcast greetings :)
[06:10] <ion_> pwnguin: Such ”functionality” should be killed indeed. :-)
[06:10] <ion_> Hi dholbach
[06:10] <dholbach> hi ion_
[06:33] <Mithrandir> pwnguin: they bother me less.
[06:50] <dholbach> thekorn, pitti: thanks a lot for the fixed py-lp-bugs
[06:55] <ion_> Is there *still* no REST API or equivalent for launchpad? :-)
[07:45] <Mithrandir> hmm, is it just for me opening the "appearance" (gnome-appearance-properties) control panel applet eats 100% cpu?
[07:45] <Mithrandir> (in hardy)
[07:45] <ogra> not here
[07:46] <ogra> any special theme you use  ?
[07:46] <Mithrandir> human
[07:46] <ogra> same here
[08:00] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[08:02]  * thekorn hugs dholbach, you are welcome
[09:54] <ShashankSingh> hi ,, everyone ,,, i have a ubuntu 6.0.6 dapper ,, how can i get qt 4.4 or 4.3 without updating  my system,, i thinking of compiling it but are there any repo arounf which could provide it ,,thanks for help :)
[09:55] <RAOF> ShashankSingh: You'll need to build from source; the only other option would be if qt 4.4 was in the dapper-backports repository, but that's quite unlikely I think.
[09:55] <RAOF> Also, not really a question about the development of Ubuntu, and hence off topic :).
[09:55] <ShashankSingh> sorry for that:)
[10:19] <dholbach> hey giskard
[11:03] <tkamppeter> I want to set up a Debian package repository, from where one can download and update via apt-get. Someone knows any HOWTO or so where I can see how to arrange the packages on the server and how to index them?
[11:06] <tkamppeter> [Resending, server connection seemed to be broken] I want to set up a Debian package repository, from where one can download and update via apt-get. Someone knows any HOWTO or so where I can see how to arrange the packages on the server and how to index them?
[11:07] <wgrant> tkamppeter: If you want to do it for Ubuntu, you could use Launchpad's PPA service. Otherwise, there are quite a few options.
[11:09] <tkamppeter> wgrant, I want to do it on the OpenPrinting server, to provide LSB-based printer driver packages for Debian and Ubuntu. If a printer manufacturer uploads an LSB RPM a script should alienize it and then index it for apt-get.
[11:10] <wgrant> That sounds like pure evil.
[11:10] <tkamppeter> wgrant, needed for https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/printerdriverautodownload and https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/jockey-printer-driver-support
[11:10] <wgrant> Publishing alienised debs?
[11:10] <tkamppeter> wgrant, these are LSB packages, designed for being alienised
[11:11] <wgrant> Ah.
[11:11] <tkamppeter> The intention of the LSB is to provide distro-independent packages.
[11:11] <wgrant> Well, I don't have much experience with running my own proper repository - I normally only need a couple of packages so run dpkg-scan* myself.
[11:12] <ion_> Also, falcon ftw.
[11:13] <wgrant> falcon works.
[11:15] <\sh> tkamppeter, we all know that LSB clean software distribution by ISVs is a dream...
[11:15] <\sh> even when we are working hard on it...
[11:17] <tkamppeter> \sh, let us not discuss whether LSB packages make sense or not, but rather tell me how to arrange .debs on a server and how to get them indexed. Is it simply running dpkg-scanpackages?
[11:18] <\sh> tkamppeter, like a.u.c. or just simple ones?
[11:18] <\sh> tkamppeter, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LocalAptGetRepository e.g. simple ones
[11:19] <\sh> tkamppeter, debian/ubuntu style ones with pool dir etc. http://debiananwenderhandbuch.de/apt-ftparchive.html
[11:33] <Riddell> pitti: so archive day today, any chance of those MIRs?
[11:34] <tkamppeter> \sh, thank you very much for the links.
[11:34] <\sh> tkamppeter, were they helping? the apt-ftparchive thing is a bit theoretical with no real practical example...
[11:37] <\sh> tkamppeter, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization <- there is an example of how to use it (for tweaking the alternate cd, but you get the idea of apt-ftparchive)
[12:27] <neil_d> tkamppeter: hi, I have been directed you way,  I have developed some scripts that create a CUPS printer that emails as a pdf what ever was printed.  How do I publish this so others can use/modify ?
[12:51] <frafu> Hello, Anybody knows who added the ESC option to the automatic fsck at startup? I would like to ask him whether he could expand to also watch for mousetweaks to stop the fsch. In fact, pointer only users (that usually work with a software keyboard that is not available at that stage) don't have a way to stop it.
[13:43] <ion_> mvo: It was nice to notice some new commits in ff’s apt-sync branch. :-) It would be really nice to have apt-sync in intrepid.
[13:45] <mvo> indeed
[13:52] <ion_> mvo: Do you think it would be possible to decide the final format for any apt-sync related changes to the archive and try to implement them for archive.u.c before the client side is “ready”? Adventurous people could begin testing apt-sync easily just by installing the development version and using their usual mirror, and when the client side gets mature enough, the mirrors would be ready for it.
[13:55] <Kano> hi, whats the correct way to shutdown a running X in live mode?
[13:55] <Kano> gdm stop does not work
[13:56] <mvo> ion_: I wanted to setup a test repo on people:~mvo - but haven't managed yet
[14:17] <tormod> Kano: if you're running 8.04 Desktop live, there is no correct way (there's a bug report). sudo killall gdm
[14:25] <Kano> tormod: i thought that, well i made a workaround in my install script
[14:31] <Kano> but it does not work correclty with killall gdm
[14:32] <Kano> the only way to restart it is for a short time doing killall Xorg
[14:34] <norsetto_> mvo: am I wrong, or recommends are also now installed by default in intrepid?
[14:35] <mvo> norsetto_: you are right, they are
[14:35] <norsetto_> mvo: ok, thanks
[14:36]  * RainCT wonders about what program you are talking
[14:37] <mvo> all of them
[14:38] <Kano> tormod: is there a way to run an external script which is on the cd during startup?
[14:55] <tormod> Kano: there are no hooks for it, you'll have to patch the initrd.gz
[15:12] <tormod> Kano: or you (ab)use the OEM hooks
[15:12] <Kano> good idea, what is executed then
[15:13] <tormod> you've gotta check. if you're interested I made a small patch for casper in the initrd to run extra hooks from the cd, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SwissTeam/OpenExpo/2007-Bern/USBStick
[15:34] <tkamppeter> I want to convert RPM packages to Debian with alien on my server. The server is amd64 and it converts amd64 packages happily, but it does not convert i386 package. Do I need one server for each platfor to offer a multi-platform repository?
[15:36] <Silicium_> hi there
[15:36] <Silicium_> iam searching for a postgresql maintainer
[15:37] <Festor> tkamppeter, rpm 32 bits -> deb 32 bits   ;  rpm 64 bits -> deb 64bits
[15:38] <Festor> tkamppeter, rpm 32 bits =! deb 64 bits   ;  rpm 32 bits =! deb 64bits
[15:38] <Festor> or rpm 32 bits =! deb 32 bits and deb 64 bits
[15:39] <tkamppeter> Festor, I have both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of each RPM and I simply want to make a 32-bit deb from each 32-bit RPM and a 64-bit deb from each 64-bit RPM. Only the generation of the 64-bit debs works.
[15:39] <joaopinto> tkamppeter, and please make sure your target audience is aware you are providing alien(ed) packages
[15:41] <Festor> O.S. 32 bits only use 32 bit packages
[15:41] <Festor> But O.S. 64bits maybe use 32 and 64 bits packages
[15:44] <emgent> morning
[15:45] <tkamppeter> I want to provide Debian packages for as many architectures as possible (RPMs I have for each architecture) but I have only a 64-bit PC server. I do not want to install or run the packages on the server. Users should download them.
[15:46] <tkamppeter> The packages are distro-independent LSB packages, designed to be alienised.
[15:46] <ScottK> tkamppeter: If you want to provide Debian packages, I'd suggest making Debian packages and not depending on a tool to do it for you.
[15:46] <Festor> Packages converted by alien do not have the same quality as the originals
[15:47] <joaopinto> tkamppeter,you will probably need to setup a 32bits schroot for the 32bits alien
[15:50] <sistpoty|work> bryce: do you happen to know where the int10 stuff, that tries to access the vesa bios can be found in xorg?
[15:56] <sistpoty|work> bryce: never mind, found it already :)
[16:58] <winkshark1122> hello
[17:24] <BenC> pitti: So I think I'm understanding things better now...this proposal of yours is in conjunction with linux-meta, not replacing it
[17:25] <BenC> pitti: but it probably means we can reduce the number of packages needed in linux-meta
[18:11] <ion_> Get:22 http://fi.archive.ubuntu.com intrepid/universe nexuiz-data 2.4.2-1 [338MB]
[18:12] <ion_> Now i wouldn’t mind apt-sync. ;-)
[18:24] <ion_> mvo: Btw, couldn’t the pdiff functionality be just used as is until we get the full apt-sync? I take it it doesn’t require huge changes at the archives?
[18:27] <geser> ion_: isn't pdiff only diffs for the Packages files?
[18:28] <ion_> geser: Yes
[18:28] <ion_> They are relatively huge, and it would be nice to update quite often when running the development version of Ubuntu.
[18:30] <geser> ion_: iirc from the last discussion that because Ubuntu updates the Package files hourly we would need to many pdiffs to make it usable
[18:30] <ion_> Ok. :-\
[18:32] <mvo> ion_: it could, but the archive u.c.c changes too often
[18:32] <ion_> I wonder why Debian didn’t go with zsync?
[18:32] <ion_> Was it not available/mature enough back then?
[18:33] <mvo> pdiff were implemented quite some time ago, I'm not sure if zsync was around then
[18:33] <mvo> and pdiffs are relatively simple to implemnt
[20:07] <sistpoty> tkamppeter: do I understand the PrinterDriverAutodownload spec right, that some app will download a .deb from openprinting and install it?
[20:07] <impulze> http://www.flickr.com/photos/27373994@N02/2554310312/sizes/o/
[20:07] <impulze> :O
[20:07] <gsker> I'm having trouble getting preseed to answer a question during install.  It's starting to look like a bug.
[20:08] <gsker> Any preseed experts around?
[20:11] <sistpoty> tkamppeter: if so, (and I've just seen there are GPL'd drivers up there), can I after such a .deb was installed do apt-get source <nameofdriver> and get the source package?
[20:11] <sistpoty> (as it's otherwise a GPL violation)
[22:30] <mouz> I tried to introduce a (fake) dependency by expanding the Depends: entry in debian/control. I compiled using pbuilder. The package I added is not in the pbuilder cache (nor anywhere else on my system). I expected pbuilder to retrieve it, but that did not happen. How come? Does something somewhere understand there is no real dependency?
[22:31] <ion_> pbuilder only installs build-deps. #ubuntu-motu is better for that area of questions.
[22:32] <ion_> Assuming you’re learning to package stuff.
[22:32] <mouz> ion_: yes. thnx