[02:00] <idefine> has anyone actually deployed this on a phone yet?
[02:03] <persia> idefine: It's not really targeted to phones.
[02:03] <persia> More handhelds
[02:03] <persia> Think 4-6" laptops, tablets, etc.
[02:07] <vadi2> How can I dsiable the "VMX root mode"?
[02:12] <persia> vadi2: Hmm.  Maybe that came with kvm.  You might be able to aptitude purge bridge-utils vgabios kvm qemu, but I'm not 100% sure.
[02:12] <persia> And waiting 5 minutes for an answer gives me time to check the rdepends :)
[02:16] <idefine> persia: ah, thanks!
[06:04] <dholbach> good morning
[10:02] <lool> ogra: Funny, I didn't get the bug this way, perhaps it's different in the intrepid branch of u-v-b
[10:03] <ogra> well, i did get it following the wikipage but utting LANG=C infront of the simple builder command
[10:03] <ogra> my build system had de_DE though
[10:04] <ogra> its not really critical and a corner cae anyway
[10:04] <ogra> *case
[10:04] <ogra> in case of MID it just makes the moblin-media stack fail which doesnt seem to be a good idea 
[10:05] <ogra> (that might be better to fix in moblin-media itself probably)
[10:07] <ogra> oh, and i dont use intrepid, its all hardy 
[10:07] <shakara1> hi
[10:08] <shakara1> i got a error in Ubuntu Mobile when i install
[10:08] <ogra> lool, more important is that mvo fixes hardy-full.list to get the right url in
[10:08] <lool> davmor2: I'm not sure we want to change font sizes at this point
[10:08] <shakara1> $ ./ubuntu.kvm 
[10:08] <shakara1> open /dev/kvm: No such file or directory
[10:08] <shakara1> Could not initialize KVM, will disable KVM support
[10:08] <shakara1> Ubuntu does not support running KVM without hardware acceleration. Sorry.
[10:08] <shakara1> $ glxinfo | grep direct
[10:08] <shakara1> direct rendering: Yes
[10:08] <lool> davmor2: It would require retesting of everything I would guess
[10:08] <lool> shakara1: This is not the same type of hardware acceleration
[10:09] <lool> shakara1: glxinfo reports about your graphics card
[10:09] <lool> shakara1: KVM is based on CPU level instructions
[10:09] <shakara1> @lool then how to fix it?
[10:09] <lool> ogra: Where's this fix?
[10:09] <lool> shakara1: You could try with qemu instead of kvm
[10:10] <shakara1> @lool: ok i will try
[10:10] <ogra> lool, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UMEinstall i added it to the instructions for now
[10:10] <lool> ogra: thanks
[10:10] <ogra> sed -s -i 's/ubuntu /ubuntu-ports /' hardy-full.list 
[10:11] <ogra> shakara1, kvm is essentially something your CPU needs to have HW support for, you can test if your CPU does with:
[10:11] <ogra> egrep '(vmx|svm)' /proc/cpuinfo
[10:11] <ogra> if that return nothing, you cant use kvm and need to go with qemu
[10:12] <ogra> *returns
[10:12] <shakara1> ogra: umn, return nothing
[10:12] <ogra> lool, that should probably be on the wiki as well
[10:12] <suihkulokki> you might need to do modprobe kvm-intel / modprobe kvm-amd
[10:12] <shakara1> where put qemu? exits a how to?
[10:12] <lool> ogra: where does that hardy-full come from?
[10:13] <ogra> lool, lp:~mvo/ubuntu-mobile/simple-image-builder ships it
[10:13] <lool> ah..
[10:13] <ogra> so we need mvo for fixing i guess
[10:13] <shakara1> $ sudo modprobe kvm-intel
[10:13] <shakara1> [sudo] password for shakaran: 
[10:13] <shakara1> FATAL: Error inserting kvm_intel (/lib/modules/2.6.24-16-generic/kernel/arch/x86/kvm/kvm-intel.ko): Operation not supported
[10:14] <ogra> shakara1, well, if the egrep command didnt return anything you CPU cant do kvm
[10:14] <ogra> no need to try it further
[10:14] <ogra> (unles you start soldering around in your CPU core :) )
[10:14] <lool> shakara1: Just pass it as argument to simple-mobile-builder
[10:14] <lool> simple-mobile-builder qemu hardy
[10:15] <shakara1> $ ./ubuntu.kvm simple-mobile-builder qemu hardy ??
[10:15] <ogra> lool, the .list files should go into a bzr branch btw, currently you need to install MIC just for getting the sources.list files from it
[10:15] <lool> ogra: I think I made that optional
[10:16] <ogra> shakara1, copy and paste: sudo ./simple-mobile-builder qemu hardy --sources /usr/share/pdk/platforms/menlow-lpia-ubuntu-hardy-ppa/sources/hardy.list --sources /usr/share/pdk/platforms/menlow-lpia-ubuntu-hardy-ppa/sources/um-ppa-hardy.list --sources $(pwd)/hardy-full.list
[10:16] <lool> if [ -n "$PLATFORM" ] || [ -n "$FSET" ]; then
[10:16] <lool>     if ! which image-creator >/dev/null; then
[10:16] <lool>         log_c "You need moblin-image-creator for --platform and --fsets"
[10:16] <lool> It's only required if you want to use these concepts
[10:17] <shakara1> mkdir: cannot create directory `/home/shakaran/simple-image-builder/ubuntu-vm-hardy-lpia': File exists
[10:17] <shakara1> Error creating directory /home/shakaran/simple-image-builder/ubuntu-vm-hardy-lpia. Unable to proceed.
[10:17] <shakara1> `PKGS' borrado
[10:17] <shakara1> `SOURCES' borrado
[10:17] <ogra> ah, i might have missed the massage, it doesnt stop if it doesnt find the lists but just goes on and builds a broken image
[10:17] <lool> ogra: But I don't like adding that hardy-full; I don't think it should be there
[10:17] <ogra> shakara1, delete the dir (ubuntu-vm-hardy-lpia)
[10:17] <ogra> oh, it was in the instructions before
[10:17] <ogra> i think davmor2 added it
[10:17] <lool> ogra: It doesn't stop?
[10:18] <ogra> nope
[10:18] <lool> log_c() { log "C:" "$@" exit 1
[10:18] <ogra> it just went on and left me with an image 100% built from the standard archive
[10:18] <lool> But you passed --platform or --fset?
[10:18] <ogra> which was an odd image indeed
[10:18] <ogra> i used https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UMEinstall
[10:18] <ogra> it only adds --sources
[10:19] <lool> Argh
[10:19] <lool> It should simply set --platform instead of looking up MIC files
[10:19] <ogra> i fixed that site along the way trying to get a usable image
[10:19] <shakara1> @ogra: downloading...
[10:19] <lool> I spend half a day implementing the dump functionality in MIC
[10:19] <ogra> gah
[10:20] <lool> There are bugs in this mode though, and I didn't have time to fix htem
[10:20] <ogra> the simple-mobile-builder comand was like that since the begining of the page though, i just added the $(pwd) to the hardy-full.list in the end
[10:20] <lool> I'm sorry, I don't have time to look at this today
[10:20] <shakara1> There is a chance to try Ubuntu Mobile on a PDA HTC P3600?
[10:21] <shakara1> or only in PC?
[10:21] <ogra> well, i can make a testbuild with --platform, if that works i'll update the wiki
[10:25] <ogra> lool, what are valid values for platform ? 
[10:26] <davmor2> sorry guys been racing around like a headless chicken.
[10:27] <davmor2> lool: currently most of the stuff in the kvm image and on the jax10 don't work because the small font size is too large.
[10:27] <davmor2> orga: thanks for adding that to the wiki I must of missed your request for it sorry
[10:28] <ogra> persia pushed for it so people dont get broken images :)
[10:29] <lool> ogra: see mic --list-platforms
[10:29] <davmor2> lool: on the bigger size machines like the q1 the font in use is the large fonts anyway
[10:29] <ogra> lool, thanks
[10:29] <lool> image-creator -c list-platforms
[10:30] <ogra> +sudo :)
[10:30] <lool> No
[10:30] <lool> At least, not if you have a fixed image-creator
[10:31] <lool> I fixed that requirement for root in an Ubuntu pach
[10:31] <lool> *patch
[10:31] <lool> It's in the ppa version and intrepid version
[10:34] <shakara1> ﻿@loll: There is a chance to try Ubuntu Mobile on a PDA HTC P3600?
[10:38] <shakara1> any help?
[10:40] <davmor2> lool: did you get the thing about gpe-filemanager?
[10:41] <shakara1> how install Ubuntu Mobile on a PDA?
[10:44] <lool> davmor2: the thing?
[10:44] <davmor2> shakara1: it's not ready for pda yet
[10:44] <davmor2> lool: hang on I'll get the bug
[10:45] <davmor2> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+bug/235338
[10:45] <lool> davmor2: Switching to pcmanfm?
[10:46] <davmor2> lool: that was cgregan suggestion to the issue mine was to remove the top bar with go in.
[10:46] <ogra> lool, ++
[10:46] <shakara1> davmor2: ok, Some approximate date when Ubuntu Mobile will be ready for PDA?
[10:47] <davmor2> No idea
[10:47] <ogra> <-- big fan of pcmanfm
[10:47] <shakara1> QEMU is slow
[10:47] <shakara1> $ ./ubuntu.qemu 
[10:47] <shakara1> Could not open '/dev/kqemu' - QEMU acceleration layer not activated: No such file or directory
[10:48] <davmor2> shakara1: it isn't designed for pda it is designed for mids someone might port it at some point though.
[10:48] <davmor2> shakara1: daft question but what are you running this on?
[10:49] <ogra> hum
[10:49]  * ogra doesnt get s-m-b to do anything at all 
[10:49] <ogra> not even with a new MIC from intrepid
[10:50] <davmor2> ogra: big hammer time you know it makes sense :)
[10:50] <shakara1> davmor2: I am running Music Player in Ubuntu Mobile
[10:51] <ogra> well, setting set -ex in the script i see it doesnt get beyond setting TEMP ... thats very weird
[10:51] <lool> " the zephyr xserver" arf
[10:51] <lool> http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS8446435808.html
[10:52] <davmor2> shakara1: no sorry what hardware are you trying to run kvm on
[10:52] <ogra> heh
[10:53] <shakara1> Mi computer is a laptop with ATI and processor of 1.86 GHZ 
[10:53] <davmor2> what processor
[10:53] <shakara1> In Ubuntu Mobile if you press in Battery Icon, then it restart Ubuntu Mobile???
[10:54] <ogra> your vm has no battery ... it might crash
[10:54] <davmor2> shakara1: that's because there is no battery on the virtual machine it's know
[10:54] <davmor2> shakara1: what processor is it?
[10:55] <shakara1> davmor2:Intel Pentium M processor 1.86 GHz
[10:56] <davmor2> shakara1: and you've tried installing kvm and become a group member of kvm?
[10:56] <shakara1> Should detected that my KVM has no battery and display a message not to crash. That would be more useful.
[10:57] <shakara1> Yes, I add in Groups an User, my user in kvm group
[10:57] <shakara1> because the wiki said
[10:57] <davmor2> shakara1: it's designed for really hardware though and not vms on the hardware it is powered by batteries
[10:57] <davmor2> shakara1: right and did you restart your machine at that point?
[10:58] <shakara1> no, i not restart my machine
[10:58] <shakara1> it should be restart?
[10:59] <davmor2> that will enable the settings to change so yes
[10:59] <shakara1> oks, i will restart
[11:00] <davmor2> shakara1: I just realised it's not on the wiki so I've added it
[11:00] <shakara1> it is normal that keyboard it shift to right in the last row?
[11:01] <shakara1> The keys left, right and below are displaced.
[11:40] <Celph_Titled> Hi
[17:57] <Bert_2> Hi, what's the default password of a standard KVM UME system ?
[17:57] <ogra> ubuntu
[17:57] <ogra> indeed :)
[17:58] <Bert_2> ogra: okey, thanks :D
[17:58] <Bert_2> BTW, to all contributors and developers: UME is very very nice, when I buy my eeepc I'm surely going to install it ;)
[18:15] <Celph_Titled> Little question, UME is the base project for NBR, right ?
[18:16] <Celph_Titled> Will NBR be available for devices such as eeepc 4G ?
[18:31] <tripzero> Celph_Titled: i would think so (eeepc question)
[18:31] <tripzero> NBR uses some of the base tech from UME
[18:31] <tripzero> i believe it uses matchbox, and a similar panel
[18:32] <tripzero> I don't think it uses hildon, but I could be wrong
[18:36] <Celph_Titled> Newbie here. Matchbox ? hildon ?
[18:38] <tripzero> matchbox window manager
[18:38] <tripzero> hildon is the toolkit that the gui elements use
[18:39] <tripzero> matchbox wm is what makes the apps always fullscreen
[18:42] <Celph_Titled> Ok
[18:43] <Celph_Titled> Thanks.
[18:44] <Celph_Titled> I think I'll install Ubuntu (currently I'm running Xubuntu on the eee) and then install the GUI components of netbook remix
[18:45] <Celph_Titled> Last question, UME could run on the eepc or is it made "only" for atom based machines ?
[18:47] <tripzero> many of the builds have drivers specific to the target devices
[18:47] <tripzero> other than that, it should run... in theory
[18:48] <Celph_Titled> M'kay
[19:11] <ogra-ume> oof, not easy to type on that screen kbd
[19:28] <davmor2> ogra-ume: it would be on a touch screen :)
[19:28] <ogra> well, my lappie has one :)
[19:29] <ogra> took me half the day to get the vbox guest drivers running on lpia though ... but now the touchscreen gets reached through directly
[19:29] <ogra> so in fullscreen mode i have an MID with a 10cm frame :)
[19:34] <ogra-ume> trying two fingers isnt rea;ly bettwer
[20:00] <ogra-ume> lool: i cant open urls in pidgin, is that known ? 
[20:01] <lool> ogra-ume: Not to me; there was a recent change for gnome-www-browser support, could you check how it's setup ATM?
[20:01] <ogra-ume> manual and nothing in the command field
[20:01] <lool> ogra-ume: Sounds like a broken upgrade / removal
[20:02] <lool> ogra-ume: grep the maintainer scripts perhaps
[20:02] <ogra-ume> well, its a fresh image, i didnt play with any settings yet
[20:02] <ogra-ume> will do
[20:02] <persia> lool: No, it's been that way for a while, at least since UDS.  I just forgot about it.
[20:06] <lool> gnome-www-browser - status is auto.
[20:06] <lool> here
[20:06] <lool>  link currently points to /usr/bin/epiphany-gecko
[20:06] <lool> /usr/bin/firefox - priority 70
[20:06] <lool> (doh)
[20:07] <ogra-ume> i wonder why midbrowser doesnt just register www-browser though
[20:07] <ogra-ume> err
[20:07] <ogra-ume> x-www-browser
[20:08] <lool> It's hard to tell where the limit is between gnome-ish and not gnome-ish stuff
[20:08] <ogra-ume> well, its one line in postinst and guarantees that non gnome apps have a system browser
[20:09] <lool> Oh it should do all of them, I agree
[20:09] <ogra-ume> right
[20:10] <lool> You said "just register" these, so I thought you wanted to exclude gnome-w-b
[20:10] <ogra-ume> nah :)
[20:12] <ogra-ume> hmm, the matchbox-keyboard in extended mode has way bigger and easier to press buttons
[20:29] <mterry> lool, ogra-ume: LP #223891 for the x-www-browser stuff
[20:30] <ogra> great :)
[20:33] <mterry> I'm trying to figure out why a file got lost in a package, but can't find when it happened...  moblin-settings-daemon in git has (and has had for a long time) the file moblin-settings-sound.c.  But the file isn't in UME builds (it was in .61 but not in .66).  But I can't see a changelog entry referencing it
[20:38] <ogra> doesnt the git history show it ? 
[20:54] <probono> hi all, how is ubuntu-netbook-remix related to ubuntu-mobile?
[20:55] <probono> hildon seems not to be in the ubuntu-netbook-remix
[20:58] <persia> probono: ubuntu-netbook-remix is a remix of Ubuntu, containing some commonality with each of Ubuntu Desktop and Ubuntu Mobile.
[20:59] <probono> so ubuntu mobile and netbook are somewhat like parallel projects?
[21:02] <persia> probono: Something like that.  It's not quite that well defined.
[21:03] <persia> Ubuntu Mobile is a flavour of Ubuntu, like Ubuntu Desktop or Kubuntu Desktop
[21:03] <persia> Ubuntu-Netbook-Remix is a Remix of Ubuntu, something like Mint or Fluxbuntu
[21:03] <probono> ah, thanks. that clears it up
[21:04] <persia> There's been talk of creating a NetBook flavour, but nothing committed to the repos yet.
[21:54] <m-c> Why does the project wiki say the N800/N810 has proprietary parts?  Does it refer to hardware parts?  If so, what is a proprietary part, and how does it differ from most other undocumented computer parts?
[21:55] <m-c> To my knowledge, the N800/N810 uses open source software, except for the graphics and wifi, which is also the case for the majority of personal computers.  It is an otherwise very open system.
[21:58] <persia> m-c: Fairly open, but not as open as required for inclusion in Ubuntu main.  the graphics and some of the drivers (e.g. wifi) are some of the parts that aren't.
[22:00] <m-c> You are going to find closed drivers for all usa-produced wifi devices.  The FCC mandates manufactures take measures to prevent the radio devices from being used outside the specifications.
[22:01] <suihkulokki> graphics is open on N800/N810, wifi is closed
[22:02] <persia> Even better.
[22:02] <m-c> The Maemo (distro running on those devices) has a very strong developer community.  It would be wise to try and build bridges there.
[22:05] <m-c> Would anyone here be upset if I removed the "proprietary parts" statement on that page?
[22:08] <m-c> thanks
[22:15] <ian_brasil> m-c: have a look at http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2008-May/033234.html
[22:18] <ian_brasil> dsme & mce, and the battery management are all closed
[22:18] <ian_brasil> and the  WLAN module and FW too are closed
[22:20] <ian_brasil> there is some discussion that Nokia provides one person whose sole task is to support the
[22:20] <ian_brasil> community by mantaining the closed code and providing new binaries that
[22:20] <ian_brasil> link against recent libraries.
[22:22] <m-c> How are you using the term 'closed' when you are talking about these devices?  Do you mean the hardware does not have an open specification?  Or do you mean Maemo requires a closed binary driver?
[22:23] <ian_brasil> closed binary drivers but also that in order to do proper low level kernel development, one
[22:23] <ian_brasil> needs also measuring tool and special boards that allow for precise
[22:23] <ian_brasil> measuring of what the sw is doing. Nobody in the community has such
[22:23] <ian_brasil> setup,
[22:24] <ian_brasil> so there is a dependency on some Nokia support
[22:24] <ian_brasil> having said this there are projects such as Mamona 
[22:24] <ian_brasil> which are creating a totally open system based on OE
[22:26] <m-c> Well, I have no disagreement that nokia keeps maemo under close ties, like sun's linux projects, however, slighting another mobile distribution on the primary wiki over open / closed software does not seem friendly for potential developers.  Especially when the wifi drivers here will also likely be closed, because of the same restrictions.
[22:29] <ian_brasil> i don't think it is a case of this...there is a lot of synergy between maemo and ubuntu communities [Full Disclosure: I work for Nokia]
[22:30] <ian_brasil> and the guy who wrote that i am certain did not intend it to be seen in this way
[22:31] <m-c> Well, feel free to revert the changes, if I am incorrect about my facts or you think the information was otherwise helpful.
[22:33] <ian_brasil> m-c: OK, lets keep working on the synergies between the communities as well :)
[22:36] <persia> m-c: Looking at the wiki edit, I think the previous state was more about the N800 HW being proprietary, rather than the software.
[22:38] <ogra-ume> hrm ... midbrowser about dialog doesnt close
[22:38] <m-c> That's how it seemed to me, too, and proprietary hardware is an ambiguous term.  Are there any open hardware solutions?
[22:40] <persia> ogra-ume: There's a close button at about 540 vertical pixels.
[22:40] <ogra-ume> well, how do i get there on a 480px screen ? 
[22:41] <persia> ogra-ume: Well, that's the tricky bit.  Try pressing Enter or Escape.
[22:41] <ogra-ume> lets see
[22:42] <ogra-ume> yeah, that helped
[22:42] <persia> It closes, but the mechanism is decidedly non-obvious.
[22:42] <ogra-ume> th eodd bit is that i instinctively pushed the WM closebutton
[22:42] <ogra-ume> which applied to the browser automatically
[22:43] <ogra-ume> so i was left with the about win only
[22:48] <ogra-ume> hmm
[22:49] <ogra-ume> thats intresting, if i pull my power on teh laptop, i get a gnome-power-manager icon additionally to the battery thats already there in the panel
[22:50] <ogra-ume> (virtualbox hands the unplug through to the ume VM it seems...)
[22:50]  * ogra-ume checks the powermanager config
[22:51] <ogra-ume> oh, you cant disable the icon completely
[22:52] <ogra-ume> hmm, thats bad
[22:52] <persia> On the other hand, plugging and unplugging didn't do that at UDS: at that point it was just the battery icon.
[22:52] <ogra-ume> yeah, thats what its doing actually
[22:53] <ogra-ume> but it results in two batteries
[22:53] <persia> Except that I just replicated the extra icon appearance on my HW.  It now hides the brightness and volume tools when it is unplugged (which is odd, as this ought be the default state)
[22:54] <ogra-ume> th elowest level you can set g-p-m to is critical, but that means it will still show on critical battery
[22:54] <persia> Ah.  I don't think I ever got to critical battery.
[22:58] <ogra-ume> ah, there is a gconf key called never that isnt exposed in the UI
[22:59] <ogra-ume>  /apps/gnome-power-manager/ui/icon_policy never
[23:00] <ogra-ume> that will avoid it
[23:07]  * ogra-ume wonders how he's supposed to get rid of the alarmclock once that hogs the panel