/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/06/12/#launchpad-meeting.txt

=== kiko is now known as kiko-zzz
=== nickellery is now known as nickellery_
=== nickellery_ is now known as nickellery
=== rockstar_ is now known as rockstar
=== nickellery is now known as asdf
=== asdf is now known as nickellery
=== mwhudson_ is now known as mwhudson
=== mwhudson__ is now known as mwhudson
=== mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch
=== salgado-afk is now known as salgado
=== mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell
=== salgado is now known as salgado-lunch
kikoa hoy17:50
=== salgado-lunch is now known as salgado
=== mrevell_ is now known as mrevell
Rinchen#startmeeting19:00
MootBotMeeting started at 13:02. The chair is Rinchen.19:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]19:00
Rinchenwootbot19:00
RinchenWelcome to this week's Launchpad development meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating Launchpad development.19:00
Rinchen[TOPIC] Roll Call19:00
MootBotNew Topic:  Roll Call19:00
Rinchenme19:00
mrevellme19:00
bigjoolsme19:00
jtvme19:00
abentleyme19:00
leonardrme19:00
bacme19:00
intellectronicame19:01
EdwinGrubbsme19:01
sinzuime19:01
barryme19:01
al-maisanme19:01
schwukme19:01
gmbme19:01
thumperme19:01
adeuringme19:01
kikome19:01
mptme19:01
salgadome19:01
kikocprov sends apologies but had to dash!19:01
flacosteme19:01
Rinchenmatsubara?19:01
BjornTme19:01
matsubarame19:01
kikothanks jtv for being with us19:01
thumperrockstar?19:01
rockstar,e19:01
Rinchenreleases team is here19:01
rockstarer, me19:01
bigjoolscprov sends his apologies, I am covering for him19:02
stubme19:02
kikostub!19:03
Rinchenherb, mthaddon ?19:03
kikogood to have you here19:03
herbme19:03
mthaddonhere19:03
Rinchenstatik, ?19:03
Rinchenhmm19:03
Rinchenwell, we're missing a few people19:03
Rinchenbut i'll move fwd19:03
mrevellRinchen: I believe statik is travelling today19:04
Rinchenthanks19:04
Rinchen[TOPIC] Agenda19:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Agenda19:04
Rinchen * Next meeting19:04
Rinchen * Actions from last meeting19:04
Rinchen * Oops report (Matsubara)19:04
Rinchen * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)19:04
Rinchen * Bug tags19:04
Rinchen * Operations report (mthaddon/herb)19:04
Rinchen * DBA report (stub)19:04
Rinchen * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)19:04
Rinchen * New packages required (salgado)19:04
Rinchen * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)19:04
Rinchen * Doc Team report (mrevell)19:04
Rinchenplsu19:04
Rinchener19:04
Rinchenplus19:04
Rinchen    *19:04
Rinchen      Policies for launchpad dependency packages (kiko)19:04
Rinchen    *19:04
Rinchen      Storm and Hardy Updates (kiko)19:04
Rinchen    *19:04
Rinchen      iframe on every LP page (kiko)19:04
Rinchenhmpf19:04
Rinchen[TOPIC] Next meeting19:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Next meeting19:04
RinchenI won't be here next week19:05
BjornTi won't be here next week19:05
Rinchenkiko, can you run the the meeting?19:05
kikoyes19:05
kikoI can19:05
kikoI am good at such things19:05
Rinchenvery well19:05
kiko(making messes out of meetings)19:05
Rinchenok, same time same place?19:05
abentleykiko: he said "run", not "ruin" :-)19:05
Rinchen[AGREED] meeting next week, same place, same time, Kiko to rui...er...run the meeting. :-)19:06
MootBotAGREED received:  meeting next week, same place, same time, Kiko to rui...er...run the meeting. :-)19:06
* kiko scratches eyes19:06
Rinchen[TOPIC] Actions from last meeting19:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Actions from last meeting19:06
kikoso he did, maybe that wasn't such a great id..19:06
Rinchenwe had none19:06
Rinchen[TOPIC] Oops report (Matsubara)19:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Oops report (Matsubara)19:06
matsubaratoday's oops report is about bug 23951919:07
ubottuLaunchpad bug 239519 in launchpad-bazaar "BranchCreationException setting source details for a code import" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/23951919:07
matsubarathumper: can you take that one?19:07
thumperI'll allocate it, yes19:08
matsubarathere's another OOPS which I'm checking but haven't filed a bug yet. https://devpad.canonical.com/~matsubara/oops.cgi/2008-06-11/EC3619:08
matsubarasalgado: I think that oops is for you :-)19:08
matsubarait's an AssertionError in peoplemerge19:08
Rinchen[AGREED] Thumper to allocate someone to look at bug 23951919:08
MootBotAGREED received:  Thumper to allocate someone to look at bug 23951919:08
salgadomatsubara, I'll have a look19:08
matsubarathanks, we can coordinate about it after the meeting.19:09
matsubaraRinchen: that's it from me. thanks19:09
Rinchen[AGREED] salgado to look at a particular oops :-)19:09
MootBotAGREED received:  salgado to look at a particular oops :-)19:09
kikomatsubara, I think it only occurs when I fuck it up, but it should be very easy to fix19:09
Rinchenthanks matsubara19:09
matsubarathanks everyone19:09
kikooh, no19:09
kikoit's not19:09
Rinchen[TOPIC] Critical Bugs (Rinchen)19:09
MootBotNew Topic:  Critical Bugs (Rinchen)19:09
Rinchen[LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/23425419:09
Rinchencprov, what's the status with this one? This appears to me to either be fixed committed or high, but no longer critical.19:09
MootBotLINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/23425419:09
ubottuRinchen: Error: This bug is private19:09
ubottuMootBot: Error: This bug is private19:09
bigjoolsRinchen: it's a config change19:10
bigjoolsI think cprov did a branch for it, I don't know if it's in PQM or landed yet19:10
Rinchenthere is one branch from a while ago documented but history shows that you've raised it in priority since then19:10
RinchenI haven't seen any recent activity, hence my questioning.19:11
bigjoolsit's config for the restricted librarian19:11
kikobigjools, can you check and update the bug accordingly, please?19:11
bigjoolsyup19:11
kikobigjools, no bugs should be left critical19:11
kikoNONE19:11
* kiko blows the cavalier trumpet19:11
bigjoolsAFAIK cprov is actively working on it19:11
bigjoolsso don't panic!19:11
Rinchen[ACTION] Julian to review and update bug 23425419:11
ubottuRinchen: Bug 234254 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/234254 is private19:11
MootBotACTION received:  Julian to review and update bug 23425419:11
Rinchenthanks jules19:11
kikobigjools, it's not cprov's responsibility. it's the team's. it's a critical bug.19:12
ubottuMootBot: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/234254/+text)19:12
Rinchen[TOPIC] Bug tags19:12
MootBotNew Topic:  Bug tags19:12
Rinchenwe have one19:12
kikoi.e. if you don't know about it, something's wrong19:12
Rinchenhttps://help.launchpad.net/TaggingLaunchpadBugs19:12
kikoa bug tag, my favorite19:12
bigjoolsI do know about it19:12
Rinchenpackage-diff  - cprov19:12
Rinchenbigjools, do you have anything to say on the bug tag on behalf of cprov-out?19:13
adeuringf19:13
RinchenI'm ok with it if it helps your team out.19:14
bigjoolsWell he mentioned it to me before dashing off earlier, I know as much as you just pasted - I guess it's for bugs relating to the new package diff calculations, since there seem to be a few19:14
bigjools(BTW the fix for 234254 is #2 in PQM's queue)19:14
Rinchenwe can approve it, reject it, or postpone it.   kiko, you have any thoughts?19:14
Rinchenal-maisan, any thoughts from you?19:15
kikolet me check.19:15
bigjoolsI would be happy with it19:15
kikosure, I think that's fine19:15
al-maisa1Rinchen: sorry my connection dropped19:15
al-maisa1missed the question19:15
Rinchenal-maisa1, package-diff bug tag proposed by cprov19:15
al-maisa1fine with me19:16
kikoyeah, it makes sense to me19:16
Rinchenok, so carried.19:16
Rinchen[AGREED] Package-diff tag approved.19:16
MootBotAGREED received:  Package-diff tag approved.19:16
Rinchenbigjools, can you get cprov-out to update that page again please and move the tag to approved?19:16
bigjoolswilco19:16
Rinchenthank you sir19:16
Rinchen[TOPIC] Operations report (mthaddon/herb)19:16
MootBotNew Topic:  Operations report (mthaddon/herb)19:16
herbMonday (2008-06-09) lpnet1 & lpnet2 had died around midnight.  Was caught by the SAs and they restarted.19:17
herbMonday (2008-06-09) lpnet4 died with logrotate. It was manually restarted.19:17
herbThere are currently 2 CP requests awaiting approval. (r6410 & r6451)19:17
herbWe're about mid-way through the hardy upgrades. The app servers are going today19:17
herbas we speak.19:17
herbThanks to an update today edge is now using storm.19:17
herbThe new codeimport system seems to be working well, but it hits the DB pretty ha19:17
herbrd. It doesn't seem there is any connection pooling of any kind which can result in 50+ open db connections.19:17
herbI failed to update Bug 224623 last week with the debug logs as promised.  Look f19:17
ubottuherb: Bug 224623 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/224623 is private19:17
herbor them before the end of my day today.19:17
Rinchenthumper, any activities on the radar to address the db connections?19:18
kikookay.19:18
kikothumper, yeah, was going to ask that19:18
thumperhmm19:18
herbwe haven't opened a bug on it yet.  just started noticing it recently.19:18
herbwe can get a bug opened on it today if you'd like.19:19
flacosteherb: any idea why the app server died?19:19
thumperI'll talk with mwhudson_ about it this morning19:19
stubIs this one connection per process or thread, or just the usual open-and-close connections really fast? If the latter, Storm could fix that.19:19
herbflacoste: sadly no.19:19
Rinchenherb, if you could please, open a bug and let thumper and mwh know the number. Please include any data/output you have in the report.19:19
herbRinchen: will do.19:19
matsubarals19:20
kikostub, hmm, I think it's the latter, tbh19:20
kikothumper, do you know?19:20
thumperthere are up to 10 processes running at once on each import machine19:20
thumperwe only have two slaves19:20
thumperso I'd expect to see around 20 not 5019:21
kikoright19:21
kikookay -- we'll figure it out with mwh the import code master19:21
Rinchenperhaps it is just an optimization issue....unused connections being closed later than expected.19:21
herbthumper: keep on eye out for the bug a bit later today.19:21
Rinchenany other questions for herb and mthaddon ?19:21
stubPreviously, the zopeless commit would close and reopen a new connection. This behavior has (hopefully) been sorted as a side effect of the storm branch landing.19:22
Rinchenshould be interesting to see what effect that has19:22
Rinchenthanks herb19:22
herbthanks19:22
Rinchen[TOPIC] DBA report (stub)19:23
MootBotNew Topic:  DBA report (stub)19:23
stubThis close and reopening is often done so fast you have 2 or 3 times as many clients on the db as necessary as they are being opened faster than PG can clean them up.19:23
stubProduction DB will be upgraded to PostgreSQL 8.3 on Tuesday during the Hardy upgrade window.19:23
stubThe rest of the DB reviews for this cycle will be done tomorrow and the db freeze lifted if edge is in good shape with todays branch. I might delay opening until Monday or Tuesday if there are urgent fixes that need landing on edge and kiko agrees. With luck, the freeze will be lifted by landing the auth-person-split branch.19:23
stubPQM has been running PG 8.3 for two days apparantly. I haven't confirmed this with my own eyes yet though as I just noticed the RT request followup :-) Thanks to Lamont and Tom.19:23
stubThe databases on carbon (staging, demo) should be switched to 8.3 ASAP - I'll look at this if the losas don't beat me to it. The upgrade will also switch the DB to the correct locale (currently running default, should be C locale to match production).19:23
stubNothing else to report.19:23
kikostub, I had expected staging and demo to be running 8.3 already tbh19:24
Rinchenyay for auth-person-split19:24
kikostub, will you do this before the weekend?19:24
marsme! phooey.19:24
stubYes. staging and demo where to be done after PQM. The downtime window approached more rapidly than expected.19:25
kikostub, I am kinda hoping everything will fall into place tomorrow -- the only thing I can imagine will help us on edge is fixing mars' favorite iframe and possibly a storm optimo, but it's OOPSes that might tell me otherwise19:25
kikostub, yeah, we got things in gear now :)19:25
stubYup19:25
flacostemars' favorite iframe?19:25
Rinchenagenda item19:25
Rinchenanything else for Stu?19:25
stubbeer!19:26
Rinchenand thai food, yes I read the lodging request :-)19:26
Rinchenthanks stub19:26
Rinchen[TOPIC] Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)19:26
MootBotNew Topic:  Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)19:26
kikofun19:26
RinchenIs anyone blocked on an RT or have any that are becoming urgent?19:26
stubRT #30960 needs action Monday at the latest so I can confirm the PG upgrade will go smoothly.19:26
* flacoste pokes barry19:26
kikonone from me, IS have nuked all of mine so quickly19:26
bigjoolscprov asked me to mention 3077819:26
barryflacoste, Rinchen we are no longer blocked19:26
flacostecool!19:27
bigjoolswhich is the Gina machine19:27
barrywell, my branch won't land for another 11 hours, but the rt was marked resolved :)19:27
Rinchenok thanks. I'll have a look at them after the meeting, set dates and priorities, and ping the cuddly red fellow19:27
Rinchena little deviation here for a moment19:28
Rinchen[TOPIC] Policies for launchpad dependency packages (kiko)19:28
MootBotNew Topic:  Policies for launchpad dependency packages (kiko)19:28
kikoaha!19:28
kikoso today we had a bit of a revelation when we figured out that our dependencies packages aren't being directly used on the appservers19:28
kikothey are being used as references, but not literally19:28
kikoI had a call with james today to attempt to sort that out19:29
kikoturns out that there are some bad things we're doing, so I want salgado to document and follow a policy for package updates19:29
salgadoon the app servers they are used, no?  just chokecherry that was missing them?19:29
kikosalgado, well, it varies. the PQM chroot, for instance, doesn't use l-d-d19:29
kikoanyway19:29
kikolet me cover the specifics, and then the policy19:30
kiko1. httplib. I understand we're using a version that isn't in intrepid yet. is there a bug open for this being packaged in Ubuntu intrepid and backported to hardy?19:30
kiko(that's for barry and flacoste)19:30
barrykiko: not that i know of19:30
kikobarry, okay. there should be. see policy coming up in a sec.19:31
kiko2. apache and ssh. both packages are required for l-d-d. they are both daemons and can't really be run inside the PQM chroot.19:31
kikoso following comes a policy definition19:31
kikofor our dependencies packages19:31
kiko1. it's not okay to depend on daemons. you can recommend a daemon, but not depend on it.19:32
kiko2. if you require a version which isn't available in the current ubuntu release we're running, then it's okay to use a custom package /as long as/ there is a request to package that version in Ubuntu, and that bug is escalated to the distro team19:32
kikothat's all. I guess this needs to go into a document, but I'll let Rinchen sort that out with salgado!19:33
* barry will open a bug for httplib219:33
salgadoAFAIK, we need apache to run launchpad19:33
salgadonot to run, but to access it19:34
kikosalgado, PQM doesn't have it, so no, we don't really.19:34
salgadomost package managers don't do anything with recommends, so that may cause developers to have to manually install it19:34
kikosalgado, it's okay to have l-d-d recommend apachd19:34
salgadokiko, I meant for a user to access.  tests are something else19:35
kikosalgado, I actually think apt follows recommends.19:35
Rinchenin any event, I could modify the newlaunchpadder docs to ensure folks install recommends19:36
flacosteit's usually a config policy19:36
stubIt doesn't really matter if RocketFuel setup documents an extra command - it isn't like anyone follows that process every day.19:36
thumperaptitude does19:36
salgadoand I don't know what update-manager does with Recommends19:36
abentleyWouldn't it be okay to require apache for launchpad-developer-dependencies, but not launchpad-dependencies?19:36
Rinchengood point19:36
salgadothat's what we do currently19:36
salgadomaybe we should have launchpad-tests-dependencies19:37
kikoabentley, no.19:37
salgadoand launchpad-developer-dependencies19:37
abentleyshouldn't PQM et al be using plain launchpad-dependencies?19:37
kikosalgado, it's unnecessary. recommends works.19:37
salgadothen PQM would only have lp-tests-deps installed19:37
Rinchenlaunchpad-dependences today recommends launchpad-developer-dependencies19:38
kikoand that's fine19:38
kikoas I said, recommends works19:38
kikocan we move on, Rinchen?19:38
salgadoabentley, PQM needs the dev deps in order to run the testsuite19:38
Rinchenkiko, yes if you are done.  Salgado, can you get with kiko if you have further questions?19:39
abentleysalgado: Okay.  I can see the argument that we don't want too many metapackages.19:39
Rinchen[TOPIC] New packages required (salgado)19:39
MootBotNew Topic:  New packages required (salgado)19:39
salgadoany new dependencies for this week?19:39
Rinchen[ACTION] Joey to ping Salgado about documenting package dependency policy19:40
MootBotACTION received:  Joey to ping Salgado about documenting package dependency policy19:40
kikosounds like no :)19:40
Rinchen[TOPIC] A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)19:40
MootBotNew Topic:  A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)19:40
mrevellHello. Three things today.19:41
mrevellFirst up: quick reminder that we'll have service interruptions on 17th, 18th and 19th June. You can find out more in our blog post at: http://news.launchpad.net/notifications/launchpad-service-interruptions-17th-18th-and-19th-june19:41
mrevellSecond: Kiko's going to talk about this later, but here's a quick note to any non-team members present: you may spot an empty box at the bottom of pages on edge. We're aware of this, so please don't worry about filing a bug.19:41
mrevellAnd the main issue this week: matsubara mentioned that intellectronica is currently helping one of our users who is experiencing problems with the email interface.19:41
mrevellThis person, Iain, is sending GPG-signed messages for both the bug tracker and Answers, but getting no response. So far, one other person has reported the same problem.19:41
mrevellYou can see the question at: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/3516519:41
mrevellI think intellectronica would welcome a discussion of what could be causing this.19:41
mrevellThanks Rinchen.19:41
RinchenAnything for mrevell or intellectronica?19:42
intellectronicato add more information to that - the user doesn't seem to be able to get even as far as requesting help via the email interface19:42
barryintellectronica: let me know if there's anything i can help with19:42
Rinchen[TOPIC] Doc Team report (mrevell)19:42
MootBotNew Topic:  Doc Team report (mrevell)19:42
kikomrevell, matsubara, intellectronica: I have confirmation from IS that the message hits us19:42
kikowho should I forward that information to?19:43
intellectronicakiko: me19:43
mrevellCool, thanks guys.19:43
mrevellA busy week for me working on user guide material, and primarily further tweaks to the tour, following Mark's feedback. I'd like to arrange a call with each team lead to go through the relevant section of the tour content with you. Please ping me with suitable times.19:43
mrevellNo news from the doc team this week.19:43
mrevellThanks Rinchen.19:43
intellectronicathere's a question. maybe this is the time to convert it to a bug19:43
Rinchensounds good to me :-)19:44
flacosteintellectronica: i would look into signed_message_from_string failing19:44
flacosteintellectronica: look at the log, you should be able to find the email failing19:44
kikointellectronica, will do. thanks!19:44
Rinchen[TOPIC] Storm and Hardy Updates (kiko)19:44
MootBotNew Topic:  Storm and Hardy Updates (kiko)19:44
kikoaha19:44
kikoI am the bearer of great tidings19:45
kikostaging and our edge server are nor updated to latest Storm19:45
kikoerr19:45
kikonow updated19:45
kikowe are aware of some performance regressions that this will impact19:45
kikofor instance, BjornT has seen the number of queries on certain bug pages going up surprisingly19:46
kikowe also know that PQM took a 15 minute hit19:46
kikothis is somewhat expected and we'll be working on fixing it as we progress19:46
kikothere's also an OOPS on the wild that mthaddon has triggered, which is something we're going to investigate further19:46
kikoZStormError: Store named 'main' already exists19:47
kikois what the OOPS says19:47
kikoaaaanyway. help us through the rough waters by offering help and objective issue reports. general whining is not ok.19:47
kikolast item of news is hardy upgrades -- you guys know this is happening next week, along with pg8.3 coming on tuesday thanks to stub and the losas19:48
kikoso keep your eyes peeled for any issues that come during this period, and let us know19:48
kikothanks and sorry for running overtime -- it's always like that when you let me do the talking...19:48
Rinchenand for the final topic...19:48
Rincheniframe on every LP page (kiko)19:48
Rinchen[TOPIC] iframe on every LP page (kiko)19:48
MootBotNew Topic:  iframe on every LP page (kiko)19:48
kikowhy is this me?19:48
kikoanyway.19:48
kikoedge has an iframe being rendered on every single page.19:49
kikoit's a CSS mistake, I believe -- invisible isn't actually causing invisibility.19:49
flacosteshould be display: none19:49
intellectronicafyi, it also has a javascript error on all pages. it's part of the same bug19:49
marskiko, working on it now19:49
kikoit's a critical problem, and as soon as we have a branch (tests for it will be.. interesting) we should push this right up to the front of the PQM queue.19:49
sinzuiInvisible != none19:49
kikomthaddon, herb: can you work with mars and intellectronica to ensure that happens? will owe you a tall glass 'a beer19:50
sinzuiI thought the intent *was* to have it load everytime, so invisible was used.19:50
herbkiko: not a problem19:50
kikoI know the beer's not a problem. I meant the PQM reorder. :)19:50
mptIt shouldn't be invisible, it should be non-existent until summoned19:50
mthaddonkiko, sure19:50
Rinchenlike a good familiar19:50
Rinchenerr19:50
RinchenThank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Developer Meeting.19:51
Rinchen#endmeeting19:51
MootBotMeeting finished at 13:53.19:51
thumpermpt: not existant implies created with JS19:51
abentleyThanks Rinchen19:51
mptthumper, exactly19:51
thumperRinchen: thanks19:51
barryRinchen: thanks19:51
mrevellthanks rinchen19:51
* Rinchen attempts to summon the mootbot logs19:51
=== mwhudson_ is now known as mwhudson
=== salgado is now known as salgado-afk

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